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November 7

Khrushchev's shoe

Per shoe-banging incident, no video records had been found, but this has been around for some time. Is it genuine? Specifically, if you stop at around 0:20, the object is identifiable as a shoe. Brandmeister^talk 04:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This report from 2003 is unsure, conflicting reports from eyewitnesses exist. This book here has an entire chapter devoted to the controversy, even discussing the possible existence of a film which itself may or may not be evidence. It's an interesting perspective. --Jayron 32 11:59, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've stopped, and re-played and nudged and played, numerous times. But that object is wholly unindentifiable as a shoe to me. Surely it would have had to have been his own shoe? To me the object looks white. Was he partial to slingbacks, perhaps? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not so sure it's even Krushchev. As for the shoe incident, editorial cartoonists subsequently often depicted him holding one of his own shoes in his hand. I recall seeing video of Krushchev and his buddies banging on their desks with closed fists, like rebellious schoolchildren, in an attempt to drown out whoever was talking. That stuff came some time after the shoe incident. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:51, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. When and how does that earpiece miraculously appear? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:01, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not miraculously, seems to be a translation earpiece. The guy may not be identical to Khrushchev, but this could be due to poor video quality, as the letters on the table plaque are illegible to me (otherwise they could have been a clue). Brandmeister^talk 14:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I mean it's not there before the shoe action begins? It looks like (at least) two separate shots have been spliced together. I also see that there are other delegates behind him who are laughing? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:37, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There's no question that it's two different items interwoven. One is definitely Krushchev, giving a speech and then walking away from the podium. The other is a clip of someone who kind of resembles Krushchev, banging something on his desk, too grainy to make out what it is. It could just as easily be rolled up papers as it could be a shoe. And his suit is different between the two clips. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:03, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. And while we're at it I'm sure Imelda Marcos has been very hard done by, too. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Right! So, checking newspapers.com (a pay site, and not comprehensive) all the initial reports agree that he took off his shoe and waved it around "as if" he were going to bang it on the desk, and only some claimed that he actually hit his desk with it. In that supposed shoe-banging clip, the guy to the right of him should be Gromkyo (according to the pictures at the time) but that doesn't look much like Gromyko. So I'm inclined to believe it's a re-enactment by actors. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:29, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I still agree with you. And here's Andy, in case you forgot how he looked. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:44, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In 1960 I saw TV news coverage on NBC which clearly showed him pounding on a desk at the UN when he disliked someone’s speech. My wife confirmed she saw it as well at the time on CBS. If it did not happen, who orchestrated the campaign to convince the American people they had seen news film of it, and what date was the false memory introduced?Edison (talk) 19:28, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Liz would be proud of you. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:46, 7 November 2017 (UTC) [reply]

The news clip I recall was him pounding on his desk with his fists, alternating from one to the other. The contemporary accounts that I've just read say that the shoe was instead of his "usual" approach of pounding his fists. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:31, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Within the first 40 seconds of this clip[1] you can see Krushchev and at least one other of his minions pounding on their desks with one or both fists, just the way I had recalled it. I haven't watched the whole thing, so I don't know if it addresses the shoe incident or not. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:43, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I watched it through - it mentions the shoe, and shoe a picture of Khruschev with a shoe on the desk in front of him - but not of him actually banging it. However, there is film of him banging the show here [2] - it looks as if he used his fists while seated during Macmillan's speech, and the show during his own speech. Wymspen (talk) 18:24, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You've linked to a "video" by someone called Marshall Poe, that is a monologue narration over a single still photo that has been shown to be a fake? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:31, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Famous situations and quotes are often twisted to fit expectations. How often have you heard, "Houston, we have a problem" when it was actually, "Houston, we've had a problem."? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:53, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it seems it has assumed some kind of incorrect precedence. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As with "Play it again, Sam." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:59, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well that's odd. I well remember TV coverage of this incident from the time. The camera was situated on the opposite side to the one in the clip posted by the OP and Khruschev was at a single podium instead of surrounded by seats. Oh well. --TammyMoet (talk) 17:03, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You may be remembering the "We will bury you" speech, which was delivered by Kruschev at a podium, rather than at a UN desk. See this video, about 1:50 onwards. --Jayron 32 17:09, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"We will bury you in Adidas boots"? I mean, it's on the RT channel, so it must be true, right? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC) [reply]

November 8

Glossary of Islam [The Meaning of Tyriak (theriac?)]

TYRIAK. It was a drug in 15th century Palestine; it's source was the Dead Sea. ( What was it? ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.178.19.79 (talk) 01:25, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think you mean theriac. Omidinist (talk) 04:50, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has an article at theriac. --Jayron 32 11:34, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There also seems to be something called Tyriac (or Tiryac) essential oil [3] with a claimed connection to ancient Egypt. Wymspen (talk) 12:13, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have access to the whole book, but here is a passing mention of the 15-century Palestinian version of theriac. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 20:25, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For context, bear in mind that theriac started in ancient times as a mithridate [4] or other drugs, and flowered with one of Galen's more fevered writings [5] and remained in the imagination a long time. That said, somewhere around Andromachus it apparently (from the first link) acquired increasing amounts of opium, which of course makes it good for what ails you. And in many times and places since it has been diminished per practicality -- if one indeed believes that anyone, even in Galen's time, really made it up by the full formula. Still, it is not entirely out of the question, especially where the rich were concerned, since the essential idea was that if a pharmacist might have a good herb on his shelf, simply mix them all and have the patient take it and maybe one will help; indeed, if those herbs truly are all of medicine, one believes one will help. In theory. The reductio ad absurdum is treacle, which is indeed the humble modern descendant of this ancient panacea. Wnt (talk) 00:24, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 9

Western thought

The article's introduction states: "The terms Western thought and Western values refer to the cultural tradition that traces its origins from the heritage of Greek, Roman, Jewish … as well as Middle Eastern Christianity including the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church." — Now, is this really correct? What about that reference explicitly to Middle Eastern Christianity and, even more, mentioning it in one breath with the Roman (!) Catholic Church (not a Middle Eastern institution at all!) here?--Herfrid (talk) 08:09, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds to me as though the "Middle Eastern" should be omitted, or further explanation given. I am not an expert in this area but I expect that what the author is trying to express is that Western Thought is highly influenced by Christian doctrine, a lot of which originated in the Middle East. An example is the influences of St Paul's teachings on the reformation. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:50, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The word "Christian" was first used in the city of Antioch, but I'm not aware in what sense Christianity is distinctively "middle-eastern" (other than originally splitting off from Judaism)... AnonMoos (talk) 16:56, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This should all just be collapsed to "Christian" or better, "Judeo-Christian" since the Catholic Church is not just the Roman Catholic Church, Protestantism and the settlements after the Thirty Years War are formative in the modern age, and mentioning Orthodox churches specifically gives them a weight they don't really have. For Example, although Russia was Orthodox, Tsar Peter the Great's reign is seen as explicitly Westernizing, not just modernizing. μηδείς (talk) 20:25, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When and why did Judaism stop practicing polygamy?

When and why did Judaism stop practicing polygamy? It seems to have been prevalent in biblical times but non-existent today. -- Q Chris (talk) 09:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Our article on polygamy, on the contrary, reckons that "despite its prevalence in the Hebrew Bible, scholars do not believe that polygyny was commonly practiced in the biblical era because it required a significant amount of wealth". When did it die out? The same article quotes one scholar as saying that "it is attested among Jews as late as the second century CE". On the other hand our article on Gershom ben Judah says that he banned polygamy in Jewish religious law around the year 1000, and surely no-one legislates against things that never happen. One writer says that "polygamy has been countenanced throughout most of history by Judaism and has been in continuing practice among Sephardic Jews, who dwell mainly in Muslim-dominated cultures". [6] The same source tells me that Israeli law still recognizes the polygamous marriages of immigrant Jews from countries where polygamy is practised. As for why the practice died out, where it did die out that is, everywhere I look I find it explained as the result of Jewish communities adopting the practices of the societies around them. --Antiquary (talk) 11:25, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ashkenazi Jews abandoned polygamy 1000 years ago, but it persisted in some Jewish communities into the modern era, especially among the Yemenite Jews, almost all of whom had emigrated to Israel by 1950. There is a small ultra Orthodox group in Israel that is trying to restore polygamy, with support from some prominent rabbis. In defiance of Israeli law, polygamy sanctioned by top rabbis. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The initiative comes from the Sephardi community, as was noted in this comment:

Some more links: [7], [8], [9], [10].

- 92.8.218.14 12:53, 9 November 2017

Anytown, USA, population...

Why do American towns (as portrayed on television and in films, at any rate) put their populations on signs as you enter them? DuncanHill (talk) 19:16, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Googling the subject, this was one of the first things that came up,[11] some theories on another website seven years ago. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:47, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fozzie, singing: "Movin' right along, Do I see signs of men?"

Kermit, singing: "Yes, 'Welcome' on the same post that says 'Come back again'."

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:25, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Googling "town population sign tv tropes" gives plenty of results. Even Elmer, New Jersey, famed for having one stop light and a population of 1,571 as late as 1990 doesn't post the population. μηδείς (talk) 20:07, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Towns with a street grid on their borders probably also don't bother to put the sign at every street. They often have at least a small one without population though. I'm not sure if I've seen the pop at the Lincoln Tunnel. Imagine the biggest towns: Tokyo population 13,513,734. It might be seen as bragging. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It would also be a problem, given statistically one would expect about 450 deaths due to old age per day in a town that big, not to mention other deaths and births and immigration and emigration. The whole thing is basically a tourist come-on or a media trope nowadays, à la Under the Dome. μηδείς (talk) 20:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No; as noted in the thread Medeis linked to, it's just standard practice in some states and some Canadian provinces. It gives a traveler an idea of what services you might find in the town. There are variations in a few states, as well. In Colorado what you expect to see on the sign is the elevation (in feet above sea level), like this or this, and that's useful information too. In Wyoming you see both, like this. In Arizona at least sometimes you see the date the place was founded. --69.159.60.147 (talk) 20:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In New York State too (yeast of founding). The ones with year of founding I remember look custom-made though (painted wood), not a state-standardized metal sign. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:58, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In Ontario, along Highway 401, the signs list the population and often the number of highway interchanges. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:08, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have never seen the number of highway interchanges in a settlement on a sign in the US. Maybe some of the overhead signs tell you which exits are Newark or whatever but they don't say "Townsville 3 exits". Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:53, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what state of the Milky Way this poster is from, but here are examples of such signs in Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, New Jersey, North Carolina, Oregon, Virginia, and Washington state. Will that do to be getting on with? --69.159.60.147 (talk) 08:19, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see Interstates much and live near the center of an extensive commuter rail system so it's mostly what I remember from Greyhound buses. Someone who actually has a driver's license is probably more qualified to know if signs say how many exits are in town. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:52, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Smaller cities along Interstates will often have signs, such as "Punkin Centre next 3 exits." For large cities there's really no point in doing that, especially if the Interstate goes right through the city as they often do. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:25, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Los Angeles 44 exits? Oh and now I recall a next x exits sign.. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 03:56, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You might like this. Alansplodge (talk) 21:54, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd love to have been born into population as low as that guy. Unfortunately I'm stuck with pride for a place more suited for the extrovert and/or nature-averse. I've seen the horizon from a window 100 meters above ground and it still looks like an ocean of buildings without an end in sight. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:58, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the various answers. I am a little puzzled by the notion that seeing the population will give yo an idea of what services would be available. Presumably if you can see a sign you can also see the town and form a judgement from that! And for the altitude - I see little everyday use for that. DuncanHill (talk) 22:03, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some of America's urban areas are very low population density (think 1 or 2 thousand people per square mile) and towns often have disproportionately vast city limits that contain large amounts of the surrounding rural area (it depends of course. St Louis has disproportionately small city limits, Houston has 2.3 million in city limits alone and the northwest highway still enters city limits in a rural area beyond suburb range) Also topography and trees could block most of even a pretty low-acreage town from view. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Different states have different guidelines for what goes on the town signs. In Massachusetts it's just the name of the town and the year it was founded. (Which is also not incredibly useful to passing motorists.) Whereas the Texas ones (page 3-156) have population instead. (I suspect Texas is where the trope comes from. All those western films where the population is in the two digits.)

As for the purpose, it seems the biggest reason is city pride, according to this article.

But if it's purely for pride, why not just put the number on the paid-for-by-the-city Welcome sign, along with the name of that celebrity that was born in your town?

I wonder if it's not influence from the sign-making industry. Replacing those signs every census has to be a steady income for somebody. (There's a legend that the original Massachusetts signs were introduced by a lawmaker whose brother was a sign-maker, but I can't find a cite for that.) ApLundell (talk) 23:17, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking about it, I guess that makes sense. Out east towns are proud of how old they are, but out west they're proud that they're growing. ApLundell (talk) 23:18, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brag about age much? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:08, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Locating Bill, Wyoming on Google Maps, there's no sign at all for the town, except on the post office and the store. And there's also a nearby motel. So although this is a town with population in double digits at most, it still has services for the driver. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:35, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Several places in the USA have signs boasting a population of only one, see Buford, Wyoming, Lost Springs, Wyoming and Monowi, Nebraska. Alansplodge (talk) 12:19, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some of these signs may be commercially sponsored. I have an idea that a local authority will put up a brown sign to an attraction if someone pays for it. In Perth, Western Australia there was one reading "You're in 6PR country". Although our article doesn't mention it, radio stations over there are identified by their callsign, the first digit of the post code (which in WA is 6) followed by two letters ("PR" obviously relates to Perth). Some signs are changed for aesthetic reasons - in one Essex village the longstanding name of "The Ugley Women's Institute" was changed to "The Women's Institute (Ugley Branch)". 82.14.24.95 (talk) 12:57, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A good joke, but they're unlikely to have such a sign as they meet in the village hall. Here is the actual village sign. Alansplodge (talk) 20:07, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The town I grew up in, formerly the Godwin farm, put up a sign after 2010 saying "founded in 1940" although it was less than half-built (the lot behind my house was empty, and I had to get a tetanus shot from being pierced by a nail) when we moved there in 1972. I suspect the whole thing is a racket for signmakers. (Followup--isn't there a term for signmaker, like haberdasher for hat maker?) μηδείς (talk) 00:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't a hatmaker a milliner? —Tamfang (talk) 02:14, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A haberdasher is not a hatmaker. In the UK, a haberdashery is a shop selling needles, pins, ribbon and other small items related to sewing, called "notions". In the US, a haberdashery is a upscale men's wear shop, selling business suits, dress shirts and ties, and a haberdasher is the proprietor. The term is somewhat archaic. President Harry Truman was a haberdasher before entering politics. [12] Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:44, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A hatmaker, especially for women, is a "milliner". The deYoung Museum in San Francisco had a fascinating exhibit earlier this year called Degas, Impressionism and the Paris Millinery Trade featuring many paintings related to hatmaking and women's hat fashion. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:51, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Oxford English Dictionary says:

In the course of the 16th c. the trade seems to have been split into two, those of: ≠a. A dealer in, or maker of, hats and caps, a hatter (obs.): b. A dealer in small articles appertaining to dress, as thread, tape, ribbons, etc. ...

a. 1566 Act 8 Eliz. c.11§3 For the better and truer making of Cappes and Hattes within this Realme.. It shalbe lefull to the Maister and Wardens of the Company of Haberdasshers within the Citie of London.. to [etc.].

The Worms of County Durham, Northumberland, and the Scottish Borders

The Lambton Worm, the Laidly Worm of Spindleston Heugh, the Sockburn Worm, and the Worm of Linton all hail from this this area. I am not aware of such worms (you may think of them as a kind of snaky dragon) as a feature of the folklore of any other parts of England. I would like to know if there has been any scholarly work on why this should be. Also, can anyone recommend a good work on the folklore of the area, and have I missed any other worms out? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And there's the Pollard Worm from near Bishop Auckland, Co. Durham. --Antiquary (talk) 11:14, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

According to Supernatural North East: Folklore, Myths, Legends and Ghosts (p. 16) by Tony Liddell, "worm" in this context comes from the Old Norse ormr(serpent or dragon). I was thinking that perhaps the worm phenomenon was related to Norse occupation, but our Danelaw artlcle suggests that most of Northumberland remained in English hands. Alansplodge (talk) 12:09, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well not exactly scholarly! but you might like The Lair of the White Worm (film). Dmcq (talk) 12:23, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"...you may think of them as a kind of snaky dragon", but weren't people thinking of dragons as a kind of big worm?

The dragon slain by Sigemund, like the serpent in Genesis A, is defined in terms of both Level I (wyrm, in Beowulf 886b, 891a and 897b) and Level II (draca in Beowulf 892b). The poet adds other details: the dragon lives “under harne stan” "under a hoar stone" (887b) suggestive of the Lower World; it is a “wraetlicne wyrm” "wondrously formed wyrm" (891)44 who guarded the treasure that Sigemund looted (893–97a), when Sigemund killed it, it melted in its own heat (897b). Broad strokes, to be sure, but they differentiate the draca from other species of wyrm...
Earl R. Anderson (2003) Folk-Taxonomies in Early English, p. 450.

Weren't all the dragons in England, and George's in Libya wyrms?—eric 17:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was rather expecting to be read in the 21st Century, not the 8th! Yes, the worms of Northumbria do appear to be at the snaky, even eely, end of the scale. DuncanHill (talk) 18:24, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the Norse and Greek ones couldn't make it over Hadrian's Wall without wings!—eric 18:53, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Re scholarly work, here is an 1872 theory that these traditions are offshoots of the Beowulf story (see Danelaw for why this story might be more prevalent in the north); the author also considers them part of the general Indo-European story stock. For dragon stories from other parts of Britain see European dragon.

Re others: List of legendary creatures by type and List of fictional worms. And that 1872 book also mentions a legend in the Somerville family and a few pages later, other dragon stories such as the Welsh king Morvidus who was eaten by a worm, the medieval poem King Alisaunder, and the adder of Lincoln mentioned in Geoffrey of Monmouth’s History of the Kings of Britain. Taknaran (talk) 19:22, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The modern (late medieval onwards, I'd say at a guess) Western concept of a dragon is generally some variant of "big, bulky, winged lizard/crocodile" (in contrast to the Chinese Dragon which is sort of a snake with other animal parts added). However, the original concept seems to have been much more snake-like. The word "dragon" itself (and the related "drake") comes from the Greek for "dragon or serpent", and ancient and early medieval pictures of dragons tend to be very serpentine. Interestingly, Bristol Museum has a couple of Han-era carvings of dragons that to my mind look more similar to Norse or Celtic dragons than the typical Chinese dragon. (Unfortunately I can't find any photos on-line). My speculation (totally OR) is that the myths and iconography must have had a common origin, but diverged over time (with the Western dragons getting fat, and the Eastern dragons gaining additional physical and magical traits and generally becoming more benevolent). Iapetus (talk) 10:30, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 10

Roster for Hawaii Territorial Legislators

Where can I find a roster for legislators in the Hawaii Territorial Legislature from 1919 to 1959? I am trying to find a list of the first few female territorial representatives and territorial senators from this period besides Rosalie Keliʻinoi.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Posse comitatus vs. Hue and cry

Firstly, would somebody mind to have a quick look at the current state of Posse comitatus? I tried to slightly improve the text (e. g. I didn't know what to do with that "recent" before "Militia Ordinance"). Secondly, neither of these articles really explained the difference between the two concepts. Can somebody in the know briefly explain it (and then, for the sake of future readers, maybe include the relevant information at least in one of the articles)? Thanks a lot in advance for any support,--Herfrid (talk) 22:23, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In English law, the hue and cry was raised by the victim of the crime or a witness to it, was targetted at one particular (perhaps unidentified) felon, and created a duty only among the citizens of the hundred. The posse was raised by the sheriff himself, targetted at felony (or breach of the peace) in general, and was a duty owed by all the citizens of the shrievalty. Tevildo (talk) 23:19, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 11

Shops in Neuromancer game

Are there any shops mentioned by name in the book Neuromancer and if so, what are the names of those shops? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.170.142.48 (talk) 02:54, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have access to the book? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:07, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have the audiobook but it would take a while to listen all the way through it again and I'm not even sure any shops are mentioned. --145.255.241.67 (talk) 04:03, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

absentee ballot

In the US, if someone votes using an absentee ballot, but unfortunately passes away before the election day, is that vote still counted? Mũeller (talk) 03:18, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you google "dying after casting absentee ballot" you'll see plenty of comments, and I suspect the answer varies by state. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:06, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How would they necessarilly know, though? The election might only be a few weks away, and it can take that long to filter through to update official records. And in any case, who is actually monitoring the coffined /uncoffined status of voters?! — fortunavelut luna 10:16, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[13] has some details for the law in several states. Although it's dealing with the 2008 primaries, there's no indication and some of the laws would seem to apply to other elections. It does mention that some states which do technical forbid such votes lack any good system to weed out deaths. The the ref it cites from 2004 [14] gives more details on various methods used including monthly reports (albeit potentially more than a month in some cases given the interaction of election dates, when the data is handed over etc), checking obituaries, family notification etc which vary not only from state to state but sometimes within the state. The earlier ref gives South Dakota as one example with reporting of deaths more frequent than monthly. One specific important factor which is also mention in this recent ref [15] is whether the state opens the ballot sometime soon after receiving it, or waits until election day as the later obviously makes it a lot harder to disqualify the vote even if it's known they are deceased. While not stated in any of these refs, given the extensive data driven voter records that the 2 major parties seem to have nowadays it wouldn't be that surprising if the parties also do their best to keep track of deaths and try and get these votes removed in potentially close races. Nil Einne (talk) 10:57, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New Mexico during World War II

Can anybody tell which combats the Casualties section exactly refers to? The article, in fact, does not seem to state why American soldiers died on New Mexican territory…--Herfrid (talk) 07:38, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Those statistics are for soldiers from New Mexico killed anywhere during World War II. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. So that would be 2612 out of 49,579, right? It also says: "Of the 1,800 New Mexican troops serving in the Philippines, only 800 returned home." Now I'm just wondering whether these proportions work.--Herfrid (talk) 10:06, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Taking the figures in good faith, that would mean that of the 2,612 deaths, about 1,000 of them actually occurred in the Philippines. However, New Mexico National Guard's involvement in the Bataan Death March from the New Mexico National Guard Museum says of the two New Mexico National Guard units which deployed to the Philippines: "Of the 1,816 men [of the] 200th & 515th Coast Artillery identified, 829 died in battle, while prisoners, or immediately after liberation. There were 987 survivors". It goes on to say that New Mexicans were also present in other units, at least two of them are still alive today. Alansplodge (talk) 12:59, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"It goes on to say that New Mexicans were also present in other units, at least two of them are still alive today." Couldn't that make up for the "missing" 200 Philippines casualties in a sense? Otherwise, I would say there is, in fact, a certain discrepancy here, isn't there?--Herfrid (talk) 20:19, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It seems obvious that many New Mexicans also served in regular armed force units and were stationed in the Philippines in December, 1941. The death rate among U.S. troops in the Philippines at that time was very high. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:50, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The 1,800 figure quoted in our article must be an approximation, but we can't see the source online. The references for the table showing the 2,612 war dead total are both dead links, but I did find World War II Honor List of Dead and Missing Army and Army Air Forces Personnel from New Mexico which gives a total of 2,032 war dead (p. 4). Alansplodge (talk) 00:50, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Whereabouts info about a Russian painting

Hi. I need some info about whereabouts of this painting by Boris Kustodiev. I appreciate any help like name of the river, the church in the background, source of the painting etc. Gnosis (talk) 10:52, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Housed in the State Russian Museum according to Boriskustodiev.ru where there's also an autolitography of this, in the same museum. The river is presumably Volga, since this says: "Her smile is snarky. Summer of 1921, the famine on the Volga. Evoking other sweltering years, Kustodiev paints this smiling beauty: "Hey, buddy, remember? Where are those bygone days?" Brandmeister^talk 13:13, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Need help creating article about graphic artist using primary source material and published artifacts

Hello -- I am researching the life and artistic output of Guy Fleming, a commercial graphic artist who was did the jacket design and typography of a great number of important books published between 1955 - 1980 from publishers including Knopf, Farrar-Straus & Giroux, Harper, Random House, etc.

Though he was hailed by his peers in the field, the authors for whom he produced book (jackets, illustrations, maps, etc), and the marketplace where many of the books he helped produce went into subsequent printings having sold well, his work was not "documented" in secondary sources of graphic artists. As a commercial artist, the bulk of his work was not displayed or reviewed in the art world, and thus not documented except on the covers of books still circulating today.

I am his daughter and would like to produce a brief piece in Wikipedia describing his life and work. (I was urged to do this by a couple of blog writers that I came across who had found some of his book art and asked the question: "who is this Guy Fleming? we cannot find any biographical information on him.." etc.)

I only have my memories, a good deal of correspondence to me, a large number of the book jacket art (proofs), and a few items to document his life like college diplomas, newspaper articles re marriage/death, etc. Unfortuantely, a large quantity of the correspondence dealing with his work was disposed of after his death in 2001. I plan to do some travelling this winter to visit one of his artist friends for more information, and have started collecting online references to books that he designed/illustrated.

My question: is there a way to put together a brief biographical article without the standard printed biographical sources for someone like this? I have enough of his original correspondence to cite for some of the major events in his life and/or recollections from other family members and friends/colleagues. But again, I do not have standard secondary source material that seems to be required for an article in Wikepedia. Looking for some guidance on using primary source information to create an article.

Faith FlemingFaithfleming (talk) 13:36, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Your father clearly was a very gifted and accomplished person. Unfortunately, if the only sources of information on his life are unpublished personal recollections and primary sources such as original correspondence and his products, it's going to be very hard to write an article that will pass Wikipedia's policies. You mention newspaper articles on marriage/death and the like. Do any of these describe his work? If so they might be acceptable to at least establish that he was a well-known artist.

You also mention that he was well regarded by his peers and by those for whom he worked. Why not get them to publish their recollections, or ask one of them to assemble the recollections of various colleagues into an overview of his life? One often sees articles like "Reflections on a life with..." in specialist publications and elsewhere. Such an article would then be a candidate for use in a Wikipedia bio. To be acceptable for Wikipedia they would need to be well-regarded publications with editorial control, not blogs or self-published venues. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:08, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 12

sales

I was reading about real estates sales in Japan and how when there are multiple buyers for the same unit, the developer would use a lottery to randomly select a buyer[16]. Wouldn't it make more sense to run an auction-type system where the buyer with the highest bid is selected? Presumably that would yield a much higher sales price. Mũeller (talk) 03:38, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably most buyers would not even try to bid with a high perspective to be outbiddet. Additionally auctions are regulated in many countries, so you need a professional, licensed auctioneer or agency which usually claim a fixed percentage of the auction result as their payment. Besides that real estate professionals usually know very exactly how high they can try to sell, so they dont want to waste money on auctioneers. Besides they are usually hired themselves to organize the sale for the owner, so they only have a minor percentage as payment for themselves which they likely dont want to split if they dont have to. --Kharon (talk) 07:04, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

By "an auction-type system", I mean how 99% of all residential real estate transactions are conducted in the West[17]: each buyer makes an offer to the seller, and the seller selects the highest bid. AFAIK there's no auctioneer involved here to take a cut. Mũeller (talk) 13:00, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

An auction-type system (buyers making an offer or sellers slowly lowering the price until a buyer shows up) may be common, but 99% of the cases may be overstating it. In particular when dealing with new housing, when people buy from a developer instead of from the previous occupant, the municipality (in particular those with a leftish municipal council) may have set a maximum price even before building began. It's in the interest of voters who currently rent a place but want to buy something that the price remains low. In this case, a lottery or first-come-first-served (with a single waiting list for all social housing development in the municipality) makes a lot of sense. PiusImpavidus (talk) 16:25, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Judging by that link "the West" has real estate agents the same as we have estate agents. Do these not charge a commission? Or are sales largely conducted online? Even so, I would expect the website to take a cut. 82.13.208.70 (talk) 18:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of The Order of Things

Who translated Michel Foucault's The Order of Things from French into English? FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 08:07, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The book doesn't say.[18][19] A web search turned up two people's names in this query and the linked followups, but nothing that looks reliable. --69.159.60.147 (talk) 11:15, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The New York Times review of the first English-language edition, in 1971, states the following: "The translator (whom, with maddening disregard for human effort and responsibility, the publisher leaves anonymous)". See the full review here: [20]. A bit more searching led to this page posted by Alan Sheridan where he claims to be the translator (among a list of other books he has translated). [21] --Xuxl (talk) 17:37, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"May the road rise to meet you" and other "traditional Irish" blessings

Hi! Over at German Wikipedia, we have a page on this topic and I am asking myself whether this could be a case of an invented tradition. Can you help me trace the roots of the poem/song/blessing "May the road rise to meet you" and the term "traditional Irish blessing" to a reliable source? Like, really reliable. Thanks, --Gnom (talk) 14:11, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, a thorough trawl of Google failed to find any really reliable source but...

In respect of the first phrase, a poster at the Irish Translation Forum says: "Go n-éirí an bóthar leat" DOES NOT mean "May the road rise to meet you". That is the most infamous mistranslation of Irish to English.... it means "May you have a successful journey" - literally "May the road succeed with you".

For the text of the full poem, in reply to the same question at Quora, a poster claims that "it was made up by an Episcopal Youth Minister, Rev. Richard Krejcir at All Saints Church, Carmel, California, in 1982 for a youth Irish party and dance, evangelism event in at The Mission Ranch Restaurant... He took Numbers 6:24 and merged it with a Celtic blessing". Alansplodge (talk) 15:32, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The same (unreferenced) etymology is given for Rise (Public Image Ltd song) LongHairedFop (talk) 15:51, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Irish proverb: "If the road rises to meet you, you know you've drunk too much Guinness". Alansplodge (talk) 19:52, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But, I trust, not so much as to break any kind of record. :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:08, 12 November 2017 (UTC) [reply]

An old story, that you know you've had too much to drink when that concrete wall you've been trying to climb over turns out to be a curb. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry, but California? The land of remakes? Episcopalian? 1982? The Church whose main source of income is selling its churches to become mosques? A "youth minister (!)"?

Next we'll be hearing that shamrocks are native to San Diego, and that the last name Garcia is actually Black Irish. Lets have some independent RS for corroboration on this fairytale. μηδείς (talk) 00:22, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a song from an Irish Rovers album, containing that expression.[22] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:27, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Alansplodge! It really seems to be an invented tradition. --Gnom (talk) 08:36, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well leaving out the road as in 'Go n-éirí leat' is a good wish too so you can see it doesn't really relate to the road but the person. Dmcq (talk) 14:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

By the way the Languages reference desk would have been much better for this. Dmcq (talk) 14:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Languages, Dmcq? My question concerns history and theology, this is why I posted it here... --Gnom (talk) 14:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Theology? Dia is Muire duit might be scraping towards theology but hardly Go n-éirí an bóthar leat. Dmcq (talk) 15:03, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking again, yes all those 'Irish Blessings' that are put onto tea towels and suchlike are like a modern day Santa Claus going Ho ho ho. Like that though there is a long history of protection prayers and blessings as in Lorica (prayer) and probably long before. Dmcq (talk) 15:46, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 13

Baby boom in Arizona after D-backs championship

D-backs has the most exciting finish to the World Series championship. Trailing 2-1 in the bottom of the ninth inning against the Yankees in Game 7 of the 2001 World Series, the D-backs scored one in that inning to tie it up, and a game-winning RBI in the same inning that immediately ended with World Series champions, exciting the fans. It is said to be the highest excitement among the fans ever when watching them win the World Series. As a result, it must've been baby boom in Arizona in late July and early August 2002, but I didn't find any coverage of it. I believe that this dramatic championship may have temporarily increased the birthrate in the state of Arizona by as much as 10%, leading to the increase of attendance in Arizona high schools in 2016. What do you guys think of those, including an estimated 10% increase in birthrate? Planet Star 04:18, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I googled "arizona population estimates 2000s" and this[23] is one item that came up. If you compare the estimates for each year, you might be able to discern whether there was a significant spike in 2002. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:23, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The change in birthrates in a particular three-week period would not significantly increase the population while not producing a spike in population for just one year alone. I looked it up but I don't see a significant spike in birthrate in 2002; there would only be a minor spike in July and August. If I look at month-by-month birthrate data in 2002, which would be hard to find, I should see a slight increase in July and August than otherwise would be if D-backs didn't win the pennant and championship in 2001. Planet Star 04:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I first heard this kind of theory in 1966 when I was 14 years old, nine months after the great blackout in the northeast US and parts of Canada. Supposedly, lots of extra babies were born because couples had lots of extra sex when the lights went out. This ignores the fact that a large percentage of women are not fertile on any given day, and any given act of unprotected intercourse has a low rate of beginning a pregnancy, plus the fact that many couples would have had sex anyway even with the lights on. The rationale is even weaker these days when contraception is ubiquitous, and people know in advance that a World Series game is being played, and may well buy champagne and condoms. Snopes has debunked this line of thinking here. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 08:27, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In May of 1980, Mt. St. Helens erupted violently, with consequent temporary impact that forced a lot of people to stay indoors. Nine months later there was reported to be a spike in the birth rate of areas affected by the eruption. Johnny Carson commented that it was funny that that one big explosion led to all those little ones! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:21, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When is Mothers' Day?

Nine months after Fathers' Day! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.208.70 (talk) 13:33, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Europe

What national border in Europe is geometric? Benjamin (talk) 06:33, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably a border between an independent country and a dependency of another country qualifies as a "national border"; then the border between Gibraltar and Spain (dark gray here) appears to qualify. I don't know how it's actually defined, though. Apparently the Treaty of Utrecht just refers to the "Town of Gibraltar" as it already existed in 1713.

If a disconnected segment of the border between two independent countries qualifies as "a border", then also consider the border between Finland and Sweden on the island of Märket. At least, I think it's disconnected; I'm not sure about maritime boundaries within the Baltic Sea.

--69.159.60.147 (talk)

The border between Poland and Kaliningrad Oblast (Russia) comes close, although it's not perfect. --Wrongfilter (talk) 08:11, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Large sections of the northern borders between Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia have long, straight sections (in areas with little or no settlement). They are defined in terms of certain fixed points, joined by straight lines. However, given the peculiar wording of the question, I am wondering if the answer being sought may be France: the continental land area of France is often called "The Hexagon" Wymspen (talk) 09:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Except the blue link they included in their description states "Geometric boundaries are formed by straight lines (such as lines of latitude or longitude), or occasionally arcs (Pennsylvania/Delaware) regardless of the physical and cultural features of the area." --Jayron 32 11:39, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it matters whether the straight sections are long or short - for example part of the frontier might run down the middle of a straight road or along a property boundary - most plots have straight fences. 82.13.208.70 (talk) 12:36, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not directly relevant to the question, but I have marked the definition in Border linked to above as ^{[citation needed]}; in fact I think it might be ^{[original research?]}. I can find no evidence that the phrase exists outside that article. See Talk:Border#Geometric borders. --ColinFine (talk) 18:15, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 14