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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Fb2ts (talk | contribs) at 09:49, 2 November 2019 (→‎should the name of the Bolivian man who through a stone at the work be included?: yes). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Vital article

Former good articleMona Lisa was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 10, 2004Peer reviewReviewed
June 7, 2006Good article nomineeListed
July 15, 2006Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Let's bring up Feminism

We should inject Feminism into this article and quote a few Sociology or Gender Studies professors as modern views. This will bring this article inline with many other articles on Wikipedia that do just that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.121.88 (talk) 23:37, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Article Clean-up & Talk-page archiving

I'd like to improve this article by making it a smoother read. As it stands, the article is a bit, excuse me, clunky; more than likely the product of too many cooks in the kitchen! I don't want to intrude here, so I'm just asking out of respect, but I think the article needs a good once-over. Also, in anticipation of the probable/upcoming DYK appearance of the Mona Lisa replicas & reinterpretations wiki, and subsequent traffic it may direct to this Main Article, it's in everyone's best interest to dust, polish and smooth-out the rough edges. This article can also be condensed without losing any of the facts; content is not the point of my suggestion. The "Mona Lisa replicas" wiki is just freshly on line for DYK, so I have a little free time to spend with this Main Article, not that it would require too much time anyway.

Also, I'd like to go ahead and create a file cabinet to condense all of this; this Mona Lisa talk-page is 90% out-dated, and clogging-the-flow with more than needs to remain visible. I'd like to start pronto, but I'd like to hear some feedback before making any moves. Of course all my edits will be transparent and I'll make them a-section-at-a-time so everyone can follow along behind me. All best intentions, no agenda. Clock's ticking... Penwatchdog (talk) 13:43, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Go for it! Amandajm (talk) 14:26, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've just completed an edit to the INTRO. Just some rearranging and recomposing. Added one small point (since 1797 at Louvre) but also provided the source (which may in fact be from a magazine excerpt of a source you've already cited). If this first edit is satisfactory, I'll proceed doing the same section-by-section in stages so my actions can be easily tracked. Penwatchdog (talk) 10:50, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Someone may also want to look into the unsourced "Katie and Mona Lisa" children's book I just noticed in the "Legacy" section. Penwatchdog (talk) 10:58, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Now also revised the "Title & subject" section (previously "Subject & title"). I reversed wording of that header in keeping with the order the subsequent facts are listed. No major cuts or additions at all; just revised to condense and clarity facts already noted in the article as it'd existed. Next: "History" section. But that's all for this sitting. Penwatchdog (talk) 13:20, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Archiving completed

Next: will begin section-by-section re-write to condense, clarify and re-compose existing content. After a few hours sleep and a brunch date. Penwatchdog (talk) 16:11, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Revert explanation

Sorry about this, but it was definitely better the way it was, for quite a number of reasons:

The Lona Misa (La Gioconda or La Joconde, or Portrait of Lisa Gherardini, wife of Francesco del Giocondo[1]) is a Half-Length Portrait of a woman by the Italian artist Leonardo da Vinci, which has been acclaimed as "the best known, the most visited, the most written about, the most sung about, the most parodied work of art in the world."[2] The painting, thought to be a portrait of Lisa Gherardini, the wife of Francesco del Giocondo, is in oil on a poplar panel, and is believed to have been painted between 1503 and 1506.[1] It was acquired by King Francis I of France and is now the property of the French Republic, on permanent display at the Musée du Louvre in Paris.[1] The ambiguity of the subject's expression, frequently described as enigmatic,[3] the monumentality of the composition, the subtle modeling of forms and the atmospheric illusionism were novel qualities that have contributed to the continuing fascination and study of the work.[1]

  • This is the text, as it was. I'll go through it.
  1. What is the subject? The Mona Lisa (La Gioconda or La Joconde, or Portrait of Lisa Gherardini, wife of Francesco del Giocondo[1]) is a half-length portrait of a woman by the Italian artist Leonardo da Vinci
  2. Why is it notable? ......which has been acclaimed as "the best known, the most visited, the most written about, the most sung about, the most parodied work of art in the world."[2] (This is a direct quote including "the best known" which is in the body of the text of the cited article.)
  3. Who, when, where? The painting, thought to be a portrait of Lisa Gherardini, the wife of Francesco del Giocondo, is in oil on a poplar panel, and is believed to have been painted between 1503 and 1506.[1] It was acquired by King Francis I of France and is now the property of the French Republic, on permanent display at the Musée du Louvre in Paris.[1]
  4. Summary of reasons why it is so famous. The ambiguity of the subject's expression, frequently described as enigmatic,[3] the monumentality of the composition, the subtle modeling of forms and the atmospheric illusionism were novel qualities that have contributed to the continuing fascination and study of the work.[1]
  • The second statement about the work (i.e. "best known.....most parodied etc") is what justifies the article and all the palaver about this painting. The fact that it is the most famous painting in the world is not a fact to go last in the Introduction It is the most remarkable fact about the subject of the article.
  • "....is considered the most famous...." This is waffle. A discussion on this was on this page but has been archived. The notion that something is "considered famous" is ridiculous. It either is famous, or it isn't famous. Otherwise every person who knows the painting considers it famous and it is famous because they all know it and consider it famous.
  • The following sentences have two problems. They seriously play down the the technical ingenuity and the "total effect" of the painting.
The ambiguity of the subject's expression, frequently described as "enigmatic,"[3] contributes to the continuing fascination and study of the work.[1] Leonardo's subtle modeling of forms, atmospheric qualities, and monumentality of the composition are also factors adding to the painting's acclaim.
The other problem is that the parts of the sentence don't link: Repeat the name: Leonardo's subtle modelling of forms, Leonardo's atmospheric qualities, Leonardo's monumentality of composition. It becomes apparent that Leonardo doesn't own these characteristics; it is the painting that owns them.
  • The sentence that follows describes all the reasons for the paintings fame.
The ambiguity of the subject's expression, frequently described as enigmatic,[3] the monumentality of the composition, the subtle modeling of forms and the atmospheric illusionism were novel qualities that have contributed to the continuing fascination and study of the work.[1]
The enigmatic expression may fascinate the average tourist, and may have been deliberately and obviously imitated, but the composition, the modelling and the atmosphere are the factors which have had long-lasting impact on the history of art.
I'm adding the word "which" after enigmatic, to make the sequence clearer.

Amandajm (talk) 15:12, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see

And now you've got far-too-much-bold up front there again, Mona, which is already distracting and clogging up the intro; a little top-heavy. And do you really want to leave "the most, the most, the most, the most, the most" as part of the first sentence of an encyclopedic entry? Because Because Because Because Because of the wonderful things he does ?? I direct you to have a look at the Guernica wiki… first paragraph: specifics relevant to the painting's creation. second paragraph: explanations of its notoriety. Clean. Smooth. Also have a look at Last Supper… one paragraph: who-did-it? when? what-is-it? Nary a mention about fame in the intro. (I can feel you right now getting wound up, preparing comparisons about how there are no comparisons between Mona Lisa's fame and that of other paintings. Save your time, I won't be back) Starry Night? The Scream? Check out how alternate titles and language credits are dealt with. Now take a look back at the Mona Lisa intro.

My insertion of the word considered was to cover the subsequent claim of most. I can describe someone as the most annoying person but that wouldn't mean everyone thinks so. It may not be a good idea to assume Mona Lisa is "the most" anything, either.
Thanks very much. You've just reminded me that I care far too much, and I now realize my input is not needed here. You're right. This article is just fine as it is; perfect, come to think of it. How silly of me to think it could be any better! Heck, I don't know anything about art. Writing either. What was I thinking?!
I'm just glad I didn't get as far as the "aesthetics" section, which barely provides sources for five paragraphs worth of clumsy explanations of subjective topics which are arguably most open to interpretation. Boy, that would've been a real waste of my time, thinking I could do any better. Shame on me. I'll just go back to chewing my toenails; you'll not hear from me again. Oh, "illusionism"... really? Wonderfulism. Penwatchdog (talk) 06:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with "the most the most the most" is that it summarises the fame of the painting better than anything else does. These statements cannot be made about any other painting.
The possibility is to find two or three referenced quotations that say the same things, and that will be clumsier than what this particular person has written.
With regards to "is considered", the sequence starts with "has been acclaimed as......." and that covers it.
Saying that something is "the most beautiful" or "most annoying" would be to make value judgements. "Most famous" is not a value judgement. If millions of people know the painting well enough to consider it "the most famous painting", then it is the most famous painting. Is the Eiffel Tower the most famous structure in Paris, or do only some people consider that it is?
The words "atmospheric illusionism" come straight out of the Louvre website. They could have said "atmospheric perspective", except that "illusionism" probably sums up what is happening here, which is very odd!.
You are pointing me in the direction of several introductions that are not very well written and in each case fail to announce the significance of a very significant work.
  • Guernica: This Introduction is good, in general because in this case the subject requires some explanation. However details like "by German and Italian warplanes" are unnecessary in the first sentence. I would be writing them out and leaving those details to the History section. The sentences follow each other logically. The fact that the painting gained iconic status is dealt with.
With regard to the others:
  • Leonardo's Last Supper. The introduction fails to indicate the fame of the painting. Because of this, it isn't an adequate introduction for that work of art. It needs to be worked on.
  • Starry Night. The intro does mention that it is one of van Gogh's "well known works" but fails to deal with its significance and its formal qualities as a painting. There is no indication of why it is a significant work.
  • The Scream, well, there are four of them, which makes the introduction just a little more difficult. The introduction gave no indication of its significance in modern culture, so I fixed it with an appropriate quote.
Thank you for drawing my attention to the other intros. I'll do some rewriting.
I don't want to put you off, but there is no point in fixing what isn't broken. There are a great deal of badly written stuff that does need rearranging.
The section of the article dealing with aesthetics does indeed need referencing. It might have been drawn from Encyclopedia Britannica. I don't know.
Amandajm (talk) 10:24, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When was it painted?

  • The lead says the Mona Lisa "is believed to have been painted between 1503 and 1506."
  • The infobox says: "Year c. 1503–1519"
  • Under "History", the article says: "Leonardo da Vinci began painting the Mona Lisa in 1503 or 1504 in Florence, Italy. According to Leonardo's contemporary, Giorgio Vasari, 'after he had lingered over it four years, left it unfinished'."

Is the infobox wrong about when the painting was finish (or at any rate stopped), or is there more to this than meets the eye? —sroc (talk) 13:29, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article is a bit confusing because some sources express more certainty about the dating than others. The lead is sourced to the Louvre website, which says Mona Lisa was "doubtless painted in Florence between 1503 and 1506 ... However, Leonardo seems to have taken the completed portrait to France rather than giving it to the person who commissioned it". This seems to be saying that the painting was finished within four years (contradicting Vasari). Martin Kemp (in "Leonardo da Vinci", Oxford Art Online) says "it is difficult to assign a single, finished, wholly autograph painting to the years 1500 to 1508 ... The painting generally regarded as the central product of these years is the so-called Mona Lisa (Paris, Louvre), although even it presents some problems of dating." Kemp then makes reference to Vasari's account and suggests that "the appearance of the picture lends support to the idea that it was painted over an extended period, since the craquelure of the face suggests that it was executed at a different time from the hands, which exhibit the thinness of his latest manner of painting." Bambach, Stern, and Manges, in Leonardo da Vinci, master draftsman (2003, 234), say that in 1503 Leonardo "begins planning the lost Leda and the Swan composition ..., as well as the Mona Lisa ... pictures that he probably continues to refine until 1516–17." The article could probably use some tweaks to reconcile the sections and to clarify that the authorities differ, particularly on the completion date. The infobox will always be misleading because infoboxes do not convey this kind of nuance well. Ewulp (talk) 23:55, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the insight, Ewulp! This is interesting indeed, and I'm somewhat surprised this isn't detailed in the article itself. Perhaps this can be added in the "History" section? Perhaps the infobox can be further clarified with a link to that section or a footnote? —sroc (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here's my crude attempt at revising the "History" section, for your consideration:

Leonardo da Vinci began painting the Mona Lisa in 1503 or 1504 in Florence, Italy.[1] Although the Louvre states that it was "doubtless painted painted between 1503 and 1506",[2] there is some difficulty in confirming the actual dates with certainty.[3] According to Leonardo's contemporary, Giorgio Vasari, "after he had lingered over it four years, left it unfinished".[4] Leonardo, later in his life, is said to have regretted "never having completed a single work".[5]

In 1516 Leonardo was invited by King François I to work at the Clos Lucé near the king's castle in Amboise. It is believed that he took the Mona Lisa with him and continued to work after he moved to France.[6] Art historian Martin Kemp has concluded that da Vinci probably continued refining the work until 1516 or 1517.[3]

On his death the painting was inherited, among other works, by his pupil and assistant Salaì.[3] The king bought the painting for 4,000 écus and kept it at Palace of Fontainebleau, where it remained until given to Louis XIV. Louis XIV moved the painting to the Palace of Versailles. After the French Revolution, it was moved to the Louvre, but spent a brief period in the bedroom of Napoleon in the Tuileries Palace.

Is this a fair reflection of the sources? —sroc (talk) 14:02, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It looks to me like a great improvement. I took the liberty of dropping it into the article with minor modification—Bambach is my source of the 1516-1517 end date; but if this is also in Kemp's Leonardo Da Vinci: The Marvellous Works of Nature and Man we can cite that too. Ewulp (talk) 00:35, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! Thanks! I was only going from your comment which I must have misread. I haven't checked the sources directly, other than the quote from the Louvre website (I don't have a copy of Kemp or Bambach). —sroc (talk) 08:08, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Merry E. Wiesner-Hanks and Merry E. Wiesner, An age of voyages, 1350–1600, Oxford University Press US, 2005, p.26. ISBN 0-19-517672-3
  2. ^ "Mona Lisa – Portrait of Lisa Gherardini, wife of Francesco del Giocondo". Musée du Louvre. Retrieved 11 March 2012.
  3. ^ a b c (Kemp 2006, pp. 261–262)
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference Clark was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. ^ Henry Thomas and Dana Lee Thomas, Living biographies of great painters, Garden City Publishing Co., Inc., 1940, p.49.
  6. ^ Chaundy, Bob (29 September 2006). "Faces of the Week". BBC. Retrieved 5 October 2007.

Edit request on 7 July 2013

Please add External links:

Przemmyslaw1 (talk) 18:14, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not done:. Wikipedia is not for advertsing. RudolfRed (talk) 19:37, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Insurance price updated for inflation

I've updated the figure for insurance that is used by the article as a means of assessing value. (That existing line of reasoning makes the Mona Lisa by far the most valuable painting in the world.) I'm a little annoyed that fans of other artists have attempted to turn the Fame section into a battleground associating financial worth with artistic worth, however. This is along the same lines as deciding one pop artist is more important because they have more sales. I think ChaCha has a more sensible answer: "It has no assigned monetary value. It is priceless." That may be far into original research, but I was thinking ... what would be the world response if the Louvre decided to sell the Mona Lisa to a private individual ... for ANY price? Outrage. Immediate firings. Cancellation of sale. Hence, saying it's priceless may not be too far off the mark. At any rate, in an auction, my guess it would go for billions. Anyhow. Nothing to see here, I went to the MeasuringWorth website and updated the 2012 equivalent of $100,000,000. I also removed some of the bombastic superlatives regarding pricing. Leptus Froggi (talk) 17:35, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 20 August 2013

In the point "2. History" in the first paragraph there is a grammar mistake "doubtless painted painted between"(one painted too much) 93.232.190.156 (talk) 12:08, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Thanks for spotting that. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

should the name of the Bolivian man who through a stone at the work be included?

should the name of the Bolivian man who through a stone at the work be included?

it's like terrorists getting airtime for their actions?

like his actions or not you get to hear about it


is it appropriate? because as it stands he has his name linked to the artwork and has sort of tagged himself to it

should his name be removed? Thetiesthatbind (talk) 22:14, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Too much emphasis on the trivial. Amandajm (talk) 01:58, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is interesting, actually. At first I thought, "Why would a Bolivian man travel all the way to France to throw a stone at the Mona Lisa?" But then I realized - it was painted around the same time that Europe began to colonize Bolivia -- a truly shameful affair that deserves a lot more room in the history books, as well as the wiki. What do we know about Ugo Ungaza Villegas? Apart from what is recorded in Vandalism of art?

In the meantime, we should certainly mention him by name. Its removal on a prior occasion was itself an act of vandalism. I have restored it.

Meanwhile, I could find no mention of the painting having since been restored - so I have also removed the statement that it was restored, until someone can provide a citation (the citation given made no mention of any restoration). In fact, a better citation is needed for the original incident in question. I'm going to see what I can dig up from the peer reviewed literature. Fb2ts (talk) 09:49, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

File:Mona Lisa, by Leonardo da Vinci, from C2RMF retouched.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Mona Lisa, by Leonardo da Vinci, from C2RMF retouched.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on October 22, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-10-22. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:46, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mona Lisa
Mona Lisa (La Joconde) is a half-length portrait of a woman by Leonardo da Vinci which was probably completed between 1503 and 1506, with further refinement continuing until 1517. Though the painting is thought to be of Lisa del Giocondo, a lack of definitive evidence has long fueled alternative theories as to the sitter's identity, including that it may represent Leonardo's mother Caterina in a distant memory. It has been held in the Louvre in Paris since 1797 and is acclaimed as "the best known, the most visited, the most written about, the most sung about, the most parodied work of art in the world."Painting: Leonardo da Vinci
Archive – More featured pictures...

Edit request: under Legacy

Contesting: "Elle a chaud au cul" literally translated: "she has a hot ass". This is not a literal translation. "au cul" means "at ass", or could be interpreted "at [her] ass". Suggestion: replace "literally translated" with "meaning", or put in the literal translation "She has heat at [her] ass". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.142.5 (talk) 09:59, 11 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. "Meaning", as per suggestion Amandajm (talk) 11:13, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"She has heat at [her] ass" is virtually gibberish in English. The translation "she has a hot ass" means the same thing, but in intelligable English - "hot ass" is heat at the "ass". Translation is not about word-for-word duplication, but about creating a coherent equivalent sentence. For example "C'est la Vie" is normally, and properly, translated "that's life" not "It's the life". Paul B (talk) 18:15, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2014 - Mona Lisa page

Dear Wikipedia,

on 2012 Mondadori, one of Italy's biggest editors of art studies, published a research on Mona Lisa's landscapes. A geomorphologist identified those landscapes with an accuracy never reached before. Since its publication that research has been having worldwide resonance. The information is already present on the Italian version of Mona Lisa ( Gioconda ) I would be pleased to let the anglophone world know about that, by writing the following text at the end of the chapter 'aesthetics' ( after the words '...for the lack of clear evidence [39].' ) :

" A recent research (1) by a geomorphology professor at Urbino university and an artist-photographer revealed astonishing likenesses of the Mona Lisa's landscapes to some views in the Montefeltro region in the Italian provinces of Pesaro Urbino and Rimini (2).

(1) Rosetta Borchia and Olivia Nesci, <<Codice P. Atlante illustrato del reale paesaggio della Gioconda>> , Mondadori Electa, 2012, ISBN 978883709277

(2) http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/arts/visualarts/article3612516.ece "

I think the following words should have a hyperlink : Urbino, Montefeltro, Pesaro, Rimini, in order to let the reader identify quickly which places he is reading about. I numbered the notes as 1 and 2 for convenience. Thank you very much in advance, I'm at your disposal for any clarification you may need Giacomo Quaresima

Please note that the same publication is mentioned also in the French page (La Joconde) :

" Le paysage[modifier | modifier le code] Une récente étude56 d'une professeur de géomorphologie de l'université d'Urbinoet d'une peintre-photographe a révélé des correspondances surprenantes entre les paysages de la Joconde et des vues dans le territoire de Montefeltro dans les provinces Italiennes de Pesaro Urbino et Rimini. " Giacomo Quaresima (talk) 22:29, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I have added this information and the references. Amandajm (talk) 14:24, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Amandajm. I attach hereby the link to the webpage of 8th International Conference of Geomorphology (Paris, August 2013) where the research was discussed and approved. The scientifique comittee was composed by some 60 university professors from all the world. http://www.geomorphology-iag-paris2013.com/en/detailed-programme The work was presented with the title "The Da Vinci Landscape Code; Exploring the Panorama behind La Gioconda" If anyone wants to see it I can let you download the abstract. Thank you very much for the cooperation. Best Regards. Giacomo Quaresima. --Giacomo Quaresima (talk) 16:00, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the note where the book is mentioned ("Codice P. Atlante..."), could you make a hyperlink on the title of the book to the following webpage ? http://www.electaweb.com/catalogo/scheda/978883709277/it Thank you very much in advance --Giacomo Quaresima (talk) 16:14, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Landscape

Landscape: The main article barely mentions the landscape and limits that to one opinion (reference number 34 in the article), that the landscape is “imaginary” despite compelling research by Starnazzi [1], Pezzutto [2] and others that it represents an actual place. It seems odd that an opinion is left unchallenged in the main article and findings that appear in peer-reviewed journals are relegated to the “Speculation about Mona Lisa” article. 1. Starnazzi, Carlo, Leonardo (Da Vinci.), and Carlo Pedretti. Codici & macchine. Cartei & Bianchi, 2010. 2. Pezzutto, Donato. “Leonardo’s Val di Chiana Map in the Mona Lisa,” Cartographica, 2011, 149-159. http://http://www.utpjournals.press/doi/abs/10.3138/carto.46.3.149/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpezzutto (talk • contribs) 19:32, 30 March 2014 (UTC) Please add the following, as the final sentences in “Aesthetics”: There have been many claims matching the landscape to specific views of actual places. A 2011 article hypothesizes that the entire landscape is a map of the Val di Chiana projected using topographic perspective. Please cite this using the above reference 2.http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mona_Lisa&action=edit&section=13# — Preceding. Frank Zöllner uses similar citations in a recent chapter contribution (page 75). See Zöllner, Frank, 2013, “From the Face to the Aura. Leonardo da Vinci’s Sfumato and the History of Female Portraiture”, in Inventing Faces. Rhetorics of Portraiture between Renaissance and Modernism. ed. Körte, Monika, Deutscher Kunstverlag, München, 67-83. ISBN: 9783422072534 http://www.gko.uni-leipzig.de/fileadmin/user_upload/kunstgeschichte/pdf/zoellner/Publikationen/unselbst_Publi/From_the_Face_to_Aura.pdfunsigned comment added by 174.94.31.59 (talk) 01:32, 2 May 2014 (UTC) 173.239.135.82 (talk) 14:46, 14 May 2014 (UTC)174.94.31.59 (talk) 11:45, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2014

Please update the following:

Title and subject / "German experts crack the ID of ‘Mona Lisa’". MSN. 14 January 2008.

The text content of this page is no longer available from Today.com but is still available from other source. Retrieved 1 May 2014. New Link to the same content: http://omnigp.com/IDofMonaLisa.html

OptimalWebmaster (talk) 21:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done I have added updated the citation using the "archiveurl" parameter of the {{cite web}} template. However, the date in which this snapshot was created is missing and would be very helpful in making the citation better. Mz7 (talk) 02:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This request is pure spam -- the username is a big hint. See WikiProject Spam report. MER-C 02:33, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Francis' purchase

It is state under the section Value: "...that Francis I bought Mona Lisa in 1504 or 1506". Francis I would have been 12 years old at this time. Is this correct? 76.88.61.180 (talk) 05:52, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In Reality

This page needs to be more accurate and precise. This picture is nothing more than a relevant snicker in the direction of me and my cohorts. That's the mona lisa smile. Sad and true. We need to talk about more it is an itty bitty little tiny smile or more end.

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2014

Remove "as firmly as that had been the use, before". Clumsy is too kind a word. Should read [outlines (sfumato), "mainly in two features: the corners of the mouth, and the corners of the eyes" (Gombrich).] The woman appears alive to an unusual measure, which Leonardo achieved by his new method not to draw the outlines, "mainly in two features: the corners of the mouth, and the corners of the eyes" (Gombrich), as firmly as that had been the use, before (sfumato).[34]

23.242.84.163 (talk) 20:41, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done Stickee (talk) 07:15, 30 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

'monumentality of the composition' is opinion, surely?

I move that this vague opinion should be removed from the text. Other elements of the lead text explain why the composition of the Mona Lisa could be considered monumental, but it is an opinion. I don't even think it's universally agreed upon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.168.7.37 (talk) 15:15, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mona Lisa - Request of editing

Dear Wikipedia, in 2011 (first edition) the Italian student and researcher Carla Glori in collaboration with the graphic researcher Ugo Cappello has published the book “Enigma Leonardo: decifrazioni e scoperte. La Gioconda – in memoria di Bianca” ( Edizioni Cappello, Savona, Italy, 2011 and second edition 2012). The thesis of the book reached the scientific identification of the landscape of the portrait through a constellation of twelve coordinates, having historical and geographical documentary evidence and nowadays really existing. The research is verifiable and falsifiable, according to the criterion of “falsiability” of Popper. You can consult some documented didactic excerpts of the research that Carla Glori has partially published for the internet users at the following links: http://www.carlaglori.com/gioconda/ http://www.carlaglori.com/gioconda/la-ricerca/

This innovative research on January 2011 had worldwide resonance, starting from the advance news of The Guardian, before the publication of the thesis; http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2011/jan/09/mona-lisa-bobbio-da-vinci .

The peace of information I give you can be synthesized with the following text at the end of the chapter 'aesthetics' ( after the words :.” Italian provinces of Pesaro, Urbino and Rimini.[42][43].”.

The thesis published in 2011 by Carla Glori identified Mona Lisa as Bianca Giovanna Sforza, the daughter of Ludovico il Moro, and localized the landscape of the portrait in Bobbio through a constellation of twelve coordinates, having historical and geographical documentary evidence and nowadays really existing. (1). The legendary bridge surnamed “ponte Gobbo” (or also “Devil’s bridge” as a reference to a miracle of saint Colombano) is the first and most important coordinate. Carla Glori claims her theory is verifiable and falsifiable, according to the criterion of “falsiability” by Popper. The book is a multidisciplinary research, and it is coincident with the historical reconstruction of the Sforzas-story and the mysterious death of Bianca. And the Malaspina-Dal Verme castle of Bobbio - the unexpected location having a well-grounded documentation – is a part of the historical reconstruction that the Italian researcher brings to light.

(1) Enigma Leonardo: decifrazioni e scoperte. La Gioconda – In memoria di Bianca”, 2012 (second edition), Edizioni Cappello, Savona, Italy, ISBN 978-88-96552-02-5

Please note that the same publication is mentioned also in the French page of Wikipedia (La Joconde) : Une historienne de l'art, Carla Glori, chercheuse à l'université italienne de Savone, affirme en 2011 que le pont médiéval à trois arches qui apparaît sur l'épaule gauche est une référence à Bobbio. (notes 74 ↑ (it) Carla Glori, Ugo Cappello, Enigma Leonardo, Cappello Edizioni,‎ 2011.)

I'm at your disposal for any clarification you may need. I thank you in advance.

My best regards - Lina Rossi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lina rossi (talk • contribs) 01:20, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2015

The mona Lisa was a famous person if she was drawn by the famous Leonardo de Vinchi 77.89.146.78 (talk) 11:58, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 13:38, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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mona lisa and her silk merchant husband

Lisa Ghiradhino who is widely suspected of being the Mona Lisa is dressed in silk. Her husband was a silk merchant. The curved top of her head with a silk veil on it is the shape of one end of a silkworm cocoon ,the serpent shaped winding road is the silk road perhaps,the sharp rocks symbolize the tooth warps of the time that helped keep the warp even, her hands and skin are like silk,the aqueduct over her shoulder symbolizes water used to drive a mill wheel in silk manufacture in the 15th century.The hot colour of the painting is the heat used to get the silk from the cocoon. The Mona Lisa is probably all about silk. Alex-the-grate2 (talk)Alex-the-grate2

Aesthetics section references

The first three paragraphs of the "Aesthetics" section make numerous subjective claims without citation, and appear to be POV / OR. To give just one example: "He effectively modified this formula to create the visual impression of distance between the subject and the observer." According to whom? If this is so, it should be simple enough to find a citation to support this. If no cite can be found, then it's just one editor's subjective opinion. --Tenebrae (talk) 16:11, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Leonardo referred[where?] to a seemingly simple "formula" for a seated female figure: images of the seated Madonna, which were widespread at the time.[citation needed]
  • He effectively modified this formula to create the visual impression of distance between the subject and the observer;[original research?]
  • Only her gaze is fixed on the observer and seems to welcome them to this silent look of communication.[original research?]
  • Since the brightly lit face is practically framed by much darker elements (hair, veil, shadows), the observer's attraction to her is brought out to an even greater extent.[original research?]
I think this sentence does not need citation. Bod (talk) 22:35, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no indication of an intimate dialogue between the woman and the observer as in the Portrait of Baldassare Castiglione, painted by Raphael about ten years later and undoubtedly[original research?] influenced by Leonardo's work.
  • The blurred outlines, graceful figure, dramatic contrasts of light and dark, and overall feeling of calm are characteristic of Leonardo's style.[original research?]
  • Owing to the expressive synthesis that Leonardo achieved between sitter and landscape, it is arguable whether Mona Lisa should be considered as a traditional portrait, for it represents an ideal rather than a real woman.[original research?]
  • The sense of overall harmony achieved in the painting (especially apparent in the sitter's faint smile), reflects the idea of a link connecting humanity and nature.[original research?]
There are eight sentences here. Which one do you think does not need citation? Also, what point are you making by listing all eight sentences? Finally, why did you sign your post in the middle and not at the end? --Tenebrae (talk) 22:39, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2015

"Mona Lisa bares a strong resemblance" should be "Mona Lisa bears a strong resemblance"

Pretty basic error really for such an important page

87.81.196.174 (talk) 09:55, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Thank you for reporting the error. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 10:00, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, my bad. I've been hacking away some of the original research and copyright violations in the "Aesthetics" section which really needs some attention, perhaps from someone who can write something better than my bearly literate attempts. --Hillbillyholiday talk 14:46, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Gotta watch out for those Mona Lisa bears. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:52, 9 December 2015 (UTC) [reply]
Too right, there's a lot of them about --Hillbillyholiday talk 15:04, 9 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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monna lisa

the name "mona lisa" is the english name for monna lisa and it doesn't come from giorgio vasari as wrongly stated in the article. mona, as correctly stated in the article, is a curse, meaning cunt. monna, as correctly stated in the article is short for madonna, which means signora in ancient italian. giorgio vasari writes about tthe painting in "le vite, vol III", 1550: "Prese Lionardo a fare per Francesco del Giocondo il ritratto di Monna Lisa sua moglie; et quattro anni penatovi lo lasciò imperfetto la quale opera oggi è appresso il re Francesco di Francia in Fontanbleo . . . Et in questo di Leonardo vi era un ghigno tanto piacevole che era cosa più divina che umana a vederlo, Et era tenuta cosa maravigliosa, per non essere il vivo altrimenti". Clearcross (talk) 00:49, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2016

My edit request is quite simple. Reference one, the hyperlink is dead. 

John Lichfield, The Moving of the Mona Lisa, The Independent, 2005-04-02 (Retrieved 9 March 2012)

I would like to update the link to point at

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-moving-of-the-mona-lisa-530771.html

Thank you for your time. Joe Flynn joeflynn71@yahoo.com

Edit request (date of the painting / 13-09-16)

The article quotes the Louvre as saying the painting was "doubtless painted between 1503 and 1506", but: (a) the linked source says "doubtless started in 1503" and (b) it appears to be a translation error (the French version has "probablement"). I suspect a previous French version had "sans doute", translated too literally as "doubtless", even though it means "probably". I would argue the current French version to be authoritative.129.199.156.30 (talk) 12:17, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

-- Write your request ABOVE this line and do not remove the tildes below. --> 70.114.175.140 (talk) 19:01, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Thanks for noticing this. Ewulp (talk) 03:01, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Please consider adding this new link to Mona Lisa External Links:
* Mona Lisa and The Body of The Earth: A Talk By Martin Kemp at The Laguna Art Museum (11.15.16) https://vimeo.com/190934578 FoxyJudyJudea (talk) 22:51, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2016

Title and subject: Please add possibly Leonardo's mother Caterina in a distant memory.

References: Roni Kempler: Who the Mona Lisa Is 2015, TXu 1-954-682, Google Site. Roni Kempler's contributions, Mona Lisa (painting by Leonardo da Vinci), Encyclopædia Britannica OldRaji (talk) 08:58, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pigments and Medium?

The article doesn't discuss the pigments and medium used in the Mona Lisa. 50.202.81.2 (talk) 02:57, 26 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

citing sources

For help citing sources go to citationmachine.net

Smarty614 (talk) 16:50, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mona Lisa and The Body of The Earth: A Talk By Martin Kemp at The Laguna Art Museum (11.15.16)

Please consider adding this new link to Mona Lisa External Links:

Mona Lisa and The Body of The Earth: A Talk By Martin Kemp at The Laguna Art Museum (11.15.16) https://vimeo.com/190934578 FoxyJudyJudea (talk) 22:52, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2017

Current text states: "The restored painting is from a slightly different perspective than the original Mona Lisa, leading to the speculation that it is part of the world's first stereoscopic pair.[83][84][85]"

As reference [83] did indeed make this claim, this is not technically wrong. However, it needs an update. A more recent study has demonstrated that there is in fact no reliable stereoscopic depth when combining the original Mona Lisa with the Prado version.

I suggest an addition as follows: "However, the a more recent report has demonstrated that this stereoscopic pair in fact gives no reliable stereoscopic depth.[86]"

Reference 86 should read as follows: Brooks, K. R. (2017). Depth Perception and the History of Three-Dimensional Art: Who Produced the First Stereoscopic Images? i-Perception, 8(1), 2041669516680114. doi:10.1177/2041669516680114 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2041669516680114

Ref 86 is freely available as an open access document. Locks 00 (talk) 23:16, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, and thank you for your contributions!  Paine Ellsworth  u/c 17:22, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning of L.H.O.O.Q

It is said that L.H.O.O.Q means "she has a hot ass". Do we mean that her ass is hot as in warm or that it is sexy? Because "Elle a chaud au cul" does not mean that it is "sexy", but warm. In french, a sexy ass would be translated by "Elle a un beau cul". A Lazy Photon (talk) 12:55, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The artist defined it as "there is fire down below" (see L.H.O.O.Q.). Which doesn't explain why he drew a mustache on the postcard. Randy Kryn 13:05, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested clarification

On 21 August 1911, the painting was stolen from the Louvre. The next day, painter Louis Béroud walked into the museum and went to the Salon Carré where the Mona Lisa had been on display for five years, only to find four iron pegs on the wall.

This text leaves a question in the reader's mind. I suggest the following change, if this is inded what happened:

On 21 August 1911, the painting was stolen from the Louvre. The theft was not discovered until the next day, when painter Louis Béroud walked into the museum and went to the Salon Carré where the Mona Lisa had been on display for five years, only to find four iron pegs on the wall.

86.141.248.162 (talk) 20:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A good suggestion, and done. Ewulp (talk) 23:31, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2017

your mona lisa facts are all wrong and i would like to fix them plz and thx it would also be nice how the heck do you make a fileYOUR james FIGHT (talk) 20:00, 18 April 2017 (UTC)kelton  Not done WP:TEAHOUSE ProgrammingGeek talktome 20:19, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Elements and principles of design

Do you think that adding elements and principles of design to the article is important or it would fill the article with unnecessary information??--Shorouq★The★Super★ninja2 (talk) 14:14, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 August 2017

Please add the following to the See also section (Mona Lisa is on the list).

Done jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 12:51, 6 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

World War Two

The following source (by Noah Charney) could be used to provide information regarding the painting's status during the period around the Nazi occupation:

Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2018

The Mona Lisa is one of the most famous painting that out of 500 people there would be at least 450 people at the painting. 2605:E000:7C09:3700:400A:EE9A:C5CF:54A6 (talk) 03:35, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — IVORK Discuss 04:34, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nude couple in the painting?

Did da Vinci paint a nude couple into his painting Mona Lisa? The image on the page can be greatly enlarged, until all the brush strokes can be seen (click on the image until the full-enlargement appears), and the paint is extensively cracked. But look very close to the left end of the lake, and glance up at the rock formation a little bit. There seems to be a clear image of a nude couple from the waist up, probably a woman and man. The woman is on the left, with her breasts evident, and her right hand seems to be resting on the man's left forearm. The man, seemingly balding, has his left arm extended and shows a strong back. The pair face each other. The brush strokes which create the pair seem observable, and I'm not seeing any of the cracks in the paint contributing to the image of the mildly-embracing pair except possibly a crack running into the woman's neck. This scenerio, of course, can just be my mind creating something out of random shapes and colors, yet on the other hand it seems, when seen, quite clear. My page-related question is, has this been mentioned in the literature anywhere? When I did a quick search there seems to be speculation about an entirely nude portrait of Mona Lisa being found, possibly by da Vinci (is this information on the page?), but nothing about a nude pair. Screen grab and upload anyone? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:53, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You should definitely publish that some place, so we can use it in WP. Don't need to also mention all the penises that are easy to see in the background. Dicklyon (talk) 18:01, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Zooming in works well on this painting, like taking a magnifying glass on a visit to the Louvre. Randy Kryn (talk) 21:04, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2019

According to a reference on Wikipedia the current value of the Mona Lisa is now for the equivalkent of $830 Million in today dollars (as of January, 2019; Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Community Development Project. "Consumer Price Index (estimate) 1800–". Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. Retrieved January 2, 2019.) Reference: Guinness World Records lists da Vinci's Mona Lisa as having the highest ever insurance value for a painting. On permanent display at the Louvre in Paris, the Mona Lisa was assessed at US$100 million on December 14, 1962. Taking inflation into account, the 1962 value would be around US$830 million in 2018.[3]

I just wanted to update the figure to the correct amount, so when I refer to the value, it is not disputed. But the article is locked. Thank you very much. Chris Gordon Brown 16:26, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. None of those sentences/phrases are in the article. (searched for "Guinness World Records lists", "highest ever insurance value for a painting", "the Mona Lisa was assessed", etc) Please format your request in a style that editors can understand in order to facilitate your request, and please provide reliable sources. NiciVampireHeart 23:17, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Supposed 1956 acid attack

I've removed the following text from the "Theft and vandalism" section:

In 1956, part of the painting was damaged when a vandal threw acid at it.

The fact was originally added on 2003-07-25 by User:AxelBoldt in this revision.

Much later, in this 2008 revision by User:Ceoil, a reference was added: a pop-culture-esque BBC article, Faces of the week. Just one problem: that article was published in 2006. No doubt its "source" was the wikipedia article. In a similar vein, Google searches for "mona lisa acid" return a number of hits reciting the same factoid about an acid attack, with no details or sources.

While the painting's vandalism by a rock-throwing Bolivian on 30 December 1956 was front-page news around the world, there are no contemporaneous news reports whatsoever of an acid attack earlier in the year. The French wikipedia article is also unaware of any acid attack.

Flamerule (talk) 23:40, 31 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, that's a good catch, thank you. I don't remember what I was reading at the time. I also can't find any source that's older than 2003. Two recent books about Mona Lisa mention a 1956 acid attack (Mona Lisa: A Life Discovered (2014) and Museum Bodies: The Politics and Practices of Visiting and Viewing (2016)), but clearly we can't trust those. AxelBoldt (talk) 02:19, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2019

As documented by many articles published in international newspapers and magazines (Guardian, Times, Telegraph, the most important Italian newspapers, Focus etc.) and as can be seen in the book "Enigma Leonardo, Decifrazioni e scoperte- La Gioconda: in memoria di Bianca" (Glori-Cappello, Savona 2010//ISBN: 8896552028 and 2011//ISBN: 8896552079), the art researcher and historian Carla Glori has identified the sitter of the Mona Lisa as Bianca Giovanna Sforza(in her research she also identifies the landscape of Bobbio).The identification of the Mona Lisa as Bianca is supported by some articles by Carla Glori published on Academia edu. My request is that you provide to supplement with the name of Bianca Giovanna Sforza the list of the sitters identified as Mona Lisa in Wikipedia. It is sufficient to add the name "Bianca Giovanna Sforza" to the names of the sitters you have listed, as you can see in the following quotation:

"Several other women have been proposed as the subject of the painting.[23] Isabella of Aragon,[24] Cecilia Gallerani,[25] Costanza d'Avalos, Duchess of Francavilla,[23] Isabella d'Este, Pacifica Brandano or Brandino, Isabela Gualanda, Caterina Sforza, Bianca Giovanna Sforza —even Salaì and Leonardo himself— are all among the list of posited models portrayed in the painting.[26][27] The consensus of art historians in the 21st century maintains the long-held traditional opinion that the painting depicts Lisa del Giocondo.[14]

I thank you very much. Boris Sapino (talk) 20:51, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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