Talk:Spanish language

Requiring permission to add link: Instituto Cervantes

As a required prerequisite noted in the edit page, external links subsection, I ask for permission to add an external link to the Instituto Cervantes webpage: http://www.cervantes.es. Reason: The Instituto Cervantes (Cervantes Institute), created by the Spanish Government is the main organization consolidated to promote spanish language. I think it is a necessary link, so I wait for your answer. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Infinauta (talk • --Infinauta (talk) 00:28, 9 October 2010 (UTC)contribs) 00:26, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Enough delay time. I'll proceed to add the link then.--Infinauta (talk) 13:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

No /n/ in lexical stress?

I want to know why under lexical stress, it says stress is on the second-to-last syllable if the word ends in a vowel or /s/, but when I go to edit in /n/, it says "please do not add /n/ before discussing it on the talk page!" What reasons do we have for not putting /n/? Jorge Morejón (talk) 02:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I also wonder about this. The rule says that, in the absence of a written accent mark, the stress is on the last syllable if and only if it doesn't end with n, s, or a vowel. (Leaving aside for the moment issues such such as words ending with "mente"). Can anyone please explain why the full rule is not written here? Also, it mystifies me why the article talks about "tendencies" and exceptions to them. There are clear rules determining where the stress lies in every word. There are actually no exceptions at all when all rules are applied.

By the way, even the wikipedia page on stress contains the full statement of the rule in question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_(linguistics) Also see http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Spanish/Pronunciation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.16.184.253 (talk) 14:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Error: The spanish language is not the oficial language in Mexico

In Mexico the spanish language is not the oficial language. Its just the language de facto.--oyashirosama (talk) 14:16, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I looked at the article and don't see where it asserts that Spanish is the national language in Mexico, so i don't see a problem here. I looked at the List of countries where Spanish is an official language article, referenced from here, and see that it says that Mexico is a sovereign state where Spanish is a de facto official language, although it has not been legally granted an official status. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:08, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Numerical columns of geographic distribution table sort alphabetically

There are numbers in the table of geographic distribution. When I want to sort the table e.g. by column "Spanish as a native language speakers", I have got it ordered by alphabet, which is needless, because there are numerical data in this column. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruwolf (talk • contribs) 18:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Llamar lengua española, o idioma español, es un error. No existe ni lengua española, ni idioma español. Se dice lengua castellana o idioma castellano. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.13.218.114 (talk) 23:43, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Isn't Castilian a subset of Spanish?

I once knew a speaker of Mexican Spanish who became very offended when somebody said she was speaking Castilian. Her implication was that Castilian refers only to the version of Spanish that is spoken as the standard in Spain. My English dictionary agrees. Yet the lede sentence in the article says "Spanish or Castilian ... is a Romance language...", implying that they are synonyms. Should this be changed? Duoduoduo (talk) 19:55, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The article Castilian Spanish says: "In English Castilian Spanish usually refers to the variety of Peninsular Spanish spoken in north and central Spain or as the language standard for radio and TV speakers." This reinforces my point. I will delete "or Castilian" from the first sentence of the lede, unless someone raises objections here. Duoduoduo (talk) 00:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

You should see the article Names given to the Spanish language. Castilian is both a dialectal variation of Spanish and an alternative name for the Spanish language as a whole. In that article, you'll see where, when and why one name is preferred over the other. For example, in Mexico the denomination "Spanish" for the language is preferred over the denoination "Castilian". In most of South America it is the opposite. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 07:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of that article (which is correctly tagged as written like a personal reflection or essay), and it's wrong. It falls into the false cognate trap, by incorrectly implying that the English word "Spanish" is the same thing as the Spanish word "español" and that the English word "Castilian" is the same thing as the Spanish word "castellano". They are not, as can be seen by looking it up in a dictionary of the English language. The English word "Spanish" refers to the language that is spoken in parts of Spain, Latin America, and the US. It is correctly translated in Central America, Mexico, and the US as "español", and is correctly translated in much of South America as "castellano". The English word "Castilian" refers to the version of the language spoken in northern and central Spain and used as a broadcasting standard in Spain. It is correctly translated in Central America, Mexico, and the US as "castellano". Duoduoduo (talk) 14:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

1) "Castilian language" (as opposed to "Castilian Spanish", which certainly refers to a regional dialect) is not a false cognate. It is widely used in English language scholarship to signify the Spanish language: (a) almost always when it is contrasted to other Spanish langauges (Catalan, Galician) (b) very often in historical works dealing with the early stages of modern Spanish, and (c) it is also accepted as a valid alternative name for the Spanish language nowadays. For the academic works using the term, see: Scholar Google Search "Castilian language"; for the actual current use of "Castilian" meaning "Spanish language", see examples: 1, 2, 3, 4; other definitions: 1902 Encyclopaedia Britannica, "Castilian", and others (1, 2). There are tons of examples. These are just a few, but i think it is enough to demonstrate that this use for the term "Castilian" is actually used, so it is not a false cognate.

2) In the whole Spanish speaking world both "Castellano" and "Español" are valid terms to designate the language. One or the other are often preferred in different contexts, countries and times; but both of them are valid in any place. It is a matter of custom and/or preference, not of different meanings here and there. Beacause the meaning of "Castellano" to designate a regional variant of Spanish is also valid -and actually used- all over the Spanish speaking world. Polysemy. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 21:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for all the citations. I looked through the first ten pages of Scholar Google Search Castilian language, but I couldn't find a single article that used it for anything outside Spain. Then I looked through your other citations, and still they all (with one exception) refer to the language spoken in Castile. The 1902 Britannica article says "the spirants c, z, which at present represent but one interdental sound (a lisped s, or a sound between s and Eng. th in thing)...." That seems to refer to the language of Castile. Your item [2] refers explicitly to the language of Castile. I could go on and on showing that your numerous examples refer to Castile. One of your references says "Sometimes it is used, not altogether accurately, to distinguish the Spanish of Spain from that of Latin America. And sometimes it is used simply as a synonym for Spanish, especially when referring to the "pure" Spanish promulgated by the Royal Spanish Academy...." The phrase "not altogether accurately", doesn't say what the inaccuracy is, and the reference to the "pure Spanish promulgated by the Royal Spanish Academy" again refers to the language of Castile. Your reference [3] is the only one backing up your assertion: it says "Castilian, which is spoken in all the national territory, Equatorial Guinea, the former Spanish territory of Sahara, Central and South America (except Brazil and the Guyanas) and parts of the Philippines, is the official and cultural language of some 350 millon people the world over." But this site belongs to the Real Academia Española, and probably is showing a little chauvinism or pride in the home language by saying that others speak it.

I find it striking that out of all the numerous citations you gave, only one Spain-based site says that the English term "Castilian" can be used for the variants of Spanish spoken outside of Spain. Or maybe I just missed some. Can you come up with something to reinforce your assertion? Thanks Duoduoduo (talk) 22:33, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

1) You are right in one point. The only variant of Spanish called Castilian is that of Central and Central-northern Spain. But when we are talking of Castilian as a language it is the same Spanish language, in Spain or out of Spain. The fact that the expression "Castilian language" is mostly used when comparing Spanish (v.g. Castilian) with other Languages of Spain (Galician, Catalan, et al.) makes it mostly useful when dealing with Spain proper. But those sources are referring to the same language when talking about "Castilian", inside or outside Spain. That is: the Spanish language.

2) The mistake referred in one source is precisely when some people use "Castilian" to denote the Spanish spoken in Spain (vs. the Spanish spoken elsewhere). It is a mistake a) because there is not one single variant of Spanish in Spain (Castilian variant is just one of them, alongside Andalusian, etc.) and, this is the most important one b) because the language is the same. Across the Hispanosphere you only have some minor grammatical mutually understandable variations, some lexical variations and some pronounciation variations. But the language is always the same: Spanish/Castilian. Salut, --IANVS (talk) 23:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)