User talk:Eric Corbett

"It was reading the ultimate paragraph of this post: [1] that finally convinced me it was time to go, yes, Hans is quite right, I am stuck in a vicious circle and there was no likelihood of things improving."

— Extract from Giano's retirement statement

Unbelievably ridiculous

But Sponge Bob says it better than I could: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ongpm4Wz_x8

2012 Wiki Sakharov Prize

	2012 Wiki Sakharov Prize
	The 2012 Wiki Sakharov Prize is awarded to Malleus Fatuorum for his refusal to compromize to ArbCom on a irrelevant issue and as a consequence accept a long term ban. Count Iblis (talk) 23:00, 21 October (UTC)

Last year's Sakharov Prize was awarded to User:Likebox, an expert in theoretical physics who was blocked indefinitely for speaking out on an issue for which ArbCom had said that he should keep his mouth shut about. Count Iblis (talk) 23:00, 21 October (UTC)

Bzzt

Interested? Talk:Morgan horse/GA1 Montanabw^(talk) 23:31, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to help, but I find I can't. I'm a net negative to the project don't cha know, not even a proper Wikipedian, and ought to have been banned long ago. Malleus Fatuorum 00:20, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Aw, quitcherbitchin, buddy, Dana and I need ya! Montanabw^(talk) 19:01, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, you are like an old Timex watch[2]. Never let a vocal minority think they've gotten the best of you, and never prove them right. All in your own time, of course, I respect that. I'm counting on your help in the not too distant future as well. Three more books have come in on 1950s autos, and I've borrowed another via the Amazon "Library", on my Kindle. Should be fun once it is near completion. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid that's now in the past. Why not ask Jclemens or one of the other arbitrators to help? I'm completely incapable of working collaboratively in any case, allegedly. Malleus Fatuorum 01:11, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, I'd be more than happy to work on a project with you. I can offer sourcing help and I'm fairly good at structuring pages. For sure, you're the better writer. I considered asking for a review when I saw you were doing lots of reviews but honestly thought it intrusive. At this point, just hang out and do what you want. If nothing, that's fine. But know this, you're welcome to any article I'm working on, and not only as someone digging out bad prose, but as a lovely man who collaborates well. So there. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I think this must be a case of mistaken identity Truthkeeper. I'm the one who drives away hordes of new editors, women and children especially. Allegedly. Malleus Fatuorum 01:31, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

The last time I politely asked Jclemens a question [3], he didn't bother responding at all. I thought I was polite and sincere, but perhaps the flood of others responding discouraged him from commenting. You always have replied, even if just to say you can't help, which I consider the polite thing to do. Besides, I wasn't looking for just anyone to help. All in time, as it isn't ready anyway. Perhaps by that time, you will feel differently. If not, I respect your right to refuse, even if I prefer your assistance. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:36, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I've got a soft spot for old cars Dennis, so who knows. Right now though I'm nursing a sore. Malleus Fatuorum 01:54, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Understandable, friend. I just hope you see the problem as a simple prick, and not a mortal wound. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:58, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

In the real world such infections can be treated by antibiotics, but what's the Wikipedia equivalent? "Burn the witch!" Malleus Fatuorum 01:54, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Give it time Malleus. That's always the best medicine. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

You're right of course, but in the words of my mother, "life's too short to bugger about". Malleus Fatuorum 02:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Malleus's problems were caused by a number of simple pricks :-) Richerman (talk) 08:55, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't know the others, but I do think that Jclemens is a prick. :-) Gandydancer (talk) 14:01, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• Well if you're a net negative, can you apply your negativity to anyone who spoils Guy Fawkes Night this year? It received over 250,000 views on 5 November last year, and looking at the viewing figures, it'll probably receive the same this year. Parrot of Doom 10:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

  I've put it on my watchlist, but I'm going to be out at a bonfire myself this year. Malleus Fatuorum 15:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks pal. Parrot of Doom 15:45, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

  420,000 views, lol. Parrot of Doom 08:41, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• Can you clarify- you did say you would be out at a bonfire- not that you would be on top of a bonfire, didn't you? I think that Alice Nutter would feel you had something in common. I have been watching this unfold- and it all follows a familiar pattern once triggered- whether here- or in court - or politics. Ask Tony Benn, and yes I have been there. No trite advice- but there's a beer in the pump when we meet. --ClemRutter (talk) 22:08, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

  I'll be going in disguise. Just in case there are any of those Wikipedians about, I'll be wearing my Jimbo Wales mask, so I should be safe. Things are starting to get back to normal after my wife's health scare this year, so I may try and make the next meetup. Alice Nutter is interesting, and she might warrant an article in her own right, as the Nutter family crops up repeatedly in the story of the witches. Look at what we managed to do with Malkin Tower for instance, a house that's quite probably never going to be found. I'm reminded as well of what PoD managed to do with the Gunpowder Plot conspirators. Malleus Fatuorum 22:42, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

  "Things are starting to get back to normal after my wife's health scare this year, so I may try and make the next meetup" - both of those sound good! -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:54, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

  I'm glad to hear things are well at home. I only managed to fix up the conspirators' articles because I had good source material. That's half the battle really, once you get 2-3 good books on an interesting subject, you're almost home. Parrot of Doom 23:17, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

• Your best move is to /stop/ editing :/ Mads Lange (talk) 09:29, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

  You appear to be yet another of these faux new editors, offering advice to those whose boots you aren't even fit to lick. So here's my advice to you: fuck off and do some proper editing yourself, if you can. Malleus Fatuorum 12:01, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it's a bit difficult to do "proper editing" after being community banned. But, it appears the sockhunters are too busy eating their Halloween candy today to do their "rabbit-hunting". Mark Arsten (talk) 13:46, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah. If that was Jack then I apologise. Malleus Fatuorum 15:49, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

'tis the season

I mentioned that I trust you ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:56, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

• Malleus. You are no net negative to the project. If you don't edit here anymore, I will report you to ANI for clear disruption. :P I suggest you take some time off and let the idiots at ArbCom get slammed by the community. You have my full support, and although you are somewhat uncivil, you are no doubt a net positive.—cyberpower _Online^{Trick or Treat} 13:42, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I think most of us regular editors feel discouraged about wikipedia a considerable percentage of the time we're on here. Me, I'm well aware of the problems the site has with double standards and attempts at some sort of bureacratic top-down system of control which rewards civility over content. I personally try to ignore it but its pretty impossible to at times, particularly if content and content producers are threatened. But what actually annoys me the most about wikipedia is that you can put hours upon hours of work into a core article or you can drill a bunch of short almost pointless stubs and nobody seems to give a shit; most people are engrossed in their own articles and issues. Marrakech (landmarks needs a major cut but had to be this length to meet DYKs silly rules), History of Marrakech, Varanasi etc, not heard a single compliment about the expansions yet and its difficult to maintain focus and enthusiasm to working on core articles when nobody really seems to careless. The occasional barnstar doesn't really do much to indicate you are truly appreciated on wikipedia, and you're more likely to see critical comments about your work than anything which remotely resembles praise. But I think more people notice our work than it might seem and they really do appreciate seeing an improvement in content but unless somebody is there to constantly tell you you're valuable and doing a great job its easy to assume that people are not bothered whether you are here or not.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 15:50, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

BTW, listen intently to the lyrics to this, rings true....♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 16:38, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Hell, I consider Malleus to be the most abrasive person on the project (that's not necessarily a criticism...), and I don't think he's a net negative. And despite my feelings that everyone on the project should be able to contribute in a manner that does not involve personal attacks, it is important to note that there ARE editors that have turned Malleus-baiting into a recreational hobby. In a lot of cases they are the same people that use ArbCom as some kind of drama magnification device that is far more disruptive than whatever quibbling issue it was meant to resolve. I know Wikipedia isn't necessarily the real world, but where I come from, you don't react to someone painting their house a color that bothers you by blowing up the entire city they live in. That would be seen as a slight overreaction. Trusilver 17:56, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

You know you have succeeded on wiki when someone accuses the article you spent hours on of being a copyvio, citing a newer source that obviously just copied "your" article. This is doubly entertaining when it's obviously a mirror site with many wiki articles. Also proof that viewing Uranus in a telescope proves that light travels in circles. Montanabw^(talk) 23:32, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

One of the first pages I created on WP received a talk comment about a month or so later saying "The main text is identical to the article here [link blah blah] but it's not clear which was written first." Apart from the blindingly obvious date of creation in the edit history. Fucking idiots. I guess from that day onwards I was destined to despise the vast majority of Wikipedians I am supposed to Love And Cherish (I think that is one of the trippy hippy mumbo jimbo pillars, anyway.) Didn't help that I upset Malleus and Parrot shortly afterwards, but I took my criticism on the chin and have looked up to them as REAL content editors ever since. Keristrasza (talk) 23:43, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Anyone who upsets Parrot upsets me.;-) I don't remember any disagreement between us though, although I do have a notoriously short memory for stuff like that. Malleus Fatuorum 21:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

In case you missed it

Greetings MF. This request is definitely addressed to you, among many. I do value your opinion, and am not offended by candor; I appreciate it actually. I also understand if you haven't the time, but I would be pleased to see your signature in the article's history. Thanks ----

A very British disease

Sorry, the previous image was not free and can't be used in user space. These are almost free, at less than E4 per kilo.

Hm, do you think that we really do suffer from a very British disease? To whit, calling it as it is. - Sitush (talk) 04:39, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

I think the Americans suffer from a peculiar condition that deludes them into believing that any word describing a body part below the waist and above the knee is a "profanity". There ought to be a Wikipedia version of Godwin's Law: "As a Wikipedia talk thread grows longer, the probability of being called uncivil approaches 1." Malleus Fatuorum 14:11, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes re: Godwin! But, in this instance, no with regard to nationality. Yogesh Khandke is from India. He's one of those who organised a protest at last year's Mumbai WikiConference, seeking arrests in relation to our displaying maps of India that are generally recognised to be correct rather than maps of India as seen through the eyes of that country's government (think Kashmir and the various other disputed territories). There were quite a few arrests but those affected were the protestors rather than the organising committee or Jimbo etc. A rather spectacular misfire, even by the standards of YK's many misfires. - Sitush (talk) 14:43, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

How strange, getting so het up about a map. I spent a few weeks working in Pakistan a few years ago, and I was not infrequently reminded that all the border disputes with India, and in particular Kashmir, were my fault as a Brit. It's a strange part of the world. And the endemic corruption is quite simply incredible, even by Italian standards. Malleus Fatuorum 14:58, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Pleased to read that someone else has been blamed for something in the region. Where we are now, it is always my fault :) Apparently, I am a pro- and anti-Pakistan, pro- and anti-India, and ditto for every caste and religion you can think of. I suppose that if so many people make so many varied and opposing claims regarding what they consider to be my allegiance, well, I must be doing something right. Sitush (talk) 15:03, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

I thought the whole point of most Indian demonstrations was to get a number of the demonstrators arrested, and attendant publicity; it worked for Gandhi. We used to get that in the late 60s and 70s. Johnbod (talk) 15:07, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

It worked for the suffragettes as well, that was one of their tactics. Malleus Fatuorum 15:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

• Malleus, I find your generalizations about Americans to be both uncivil and dickish. ;-) I still love it in the old I Love Lucy show how they had twin beds and couldn't say "pregnant" and had to instead use the phrase "expecting". And the Brady Bunch was "revolutionary" because it was the first TV show to show a married couple actually sleeping in (gasp!) the same bed. You have to remember that America was founded by a bunch of overly religious, Puritan Brits, who they say "fled" England, but I've always suspected they were kicked out for not having a sense of humor. In short, our prudishness is you Brit's fault. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

  I think there's something in that Puritan analysis Dennis. The American obsession with religion, for instance, looks very peculiar to us Europeans, and perhaps especially to us Brits. The religion, or lack of religion, of our political leaders is a matter of complete indifference to almost everyone. We've had at least one Jewish prime minister for instance, and nobody would bat an eyelid at an atheist taking on the job, but that just seems inconceivable in the States. Malleus Fatuorum 15:23, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

  I thought this analysis sounded familiar for some reason, if I am not too late in commenting here. One Greg Proops seems to agree with it. Waltham, The Duke of 15:56, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and non-believers." This was the first time a United States President acknowledged American non-believers in an inaugural address.

• Christopher Hitchens is not alone in claiming that Obama is agnostic. His first inaugural address mentioned "Christians and Jews, Muslims and Hindus, and non-believers"!

  Also, plain-speaking was characteristic of Puritans. It is more likely the Great Awakening and Methodist ferment that is responsible for "puritanism" in the USA, not the true Puritans. Indeed, Milton celebrated sexual love. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:32, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

• Whenever I taught early American literature and history I always got a kick out of how they went to Holland first but left because the Dutch didn't keep the sabbath and their kids were a bad influence. Damn straight. Drmies (talk) 15:36, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

• This is interesting. So far as I can tell I've made an observation about the undoubted American puritanism we see all too often here, and made a couple of uncomplimentary but perfectly true remarks about Pakistan and Italy. I'm not "bigotted", but neither am I blinkered, like so many of the American kids here who seem to believe themselves to be guardians of the world's morality and defenders of the one true faith. Malleus Fatuorum 19:07, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

A dick is a dick, regardless of national origin. It may interest you, Malleus, to note that the "American obsession with religion" is often quite regional. For example, it tends to bear much less in the Western states (with the exception of Utah and Idaho...for obvious reasons) than it does in the Midwest and Deep South. I grew up in a region where religion and politics were considered your business and no one else's, and was disturbed when I moved to the Midwest and discovered that the second question people asked was usually "So, where do you go to church?" Intothatdarkness 19:25, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Agreed Into, though you left out parts of rural northeast Nevada (the weirdest state in the USA) and the religious right is expanding everywhere. I do remember one of my first trips down south when someone recommended I patronize a particular restaurant because the owners were "good Christians." I was floored! I mean, out west, we sort of have the "church people" and the "bar people" but if the bar serves the best burgers in town, then it's a "family bar" where EVERYONE goes, and the kids can play pool until 8:00pm so long as they don't touch the gambling machines! LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 22:44, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Not only is religion a matter of region, but a matter of acreage. City dwellers are less likely to be religious, as are people with college degrees, and particularly people with advanced degrees. People in the Northeastern and far west are less likely. People on or near farms are more likely to go to church. Even income level matters, with higher income individuals being more likely to be agnostic or atheist. I would have to dig up these studies, but they exist. As a side note, I read a study that showed a disproportionate number of Islamic terrorists had engineering degrees, an odd anomaly. Make of that what you will. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 19:34, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

That's probably what led to the NYPD spying on Muslim students. It's pretty amazing that the event doesn't receive an article (3 sentences at New York City Police Department corruption and misconduct#NYPD Muslim surveillance controversy that don't even mention spying on university students). Ryan Vesey 21:12, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

And Malleus, you forget that it was you folks who coined the very term "Victorian age." LOL. Montanabw^(talk) 22:44, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

There are worse places than the States for religious stupidity. Scotland for instance, or Pakistan. When I was there the second question pretty much everyone asked was "Are you a Christian?" Although having been brought up a Catholic (in Scotland, hence why I now hate the fucking place) I don't consider myself to be a Christian, but to make things easy I became accustomed to saying that I was a Christian. But then you get the supplementary questions such as "Can you give me some money to help me and my family relocate to the West?", or "Can you get me a couple of bottles of whisky?" The common misconception that Muslims don't drink alcohol is a joke; they simply don't do it in public. Malleus Fatuorum 04:22, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Another place where near mind-boggling religious view are practiced is Mexico. The Catholic Church there practically runs everything, and the entire populace (besides some cartel members) are brainwashed by the church. Hell, I've seen several "New Jerusalem's" during my time there. God awful place to be. Buggie111 (talk) 04:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

"Go to church or the devil will get you", it says on a huge billboard right outside my city. Drmies (talk) 18:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

You own a city? I see you inviting people to share your swimming pool but never realised that it was the municipal baths. - Sitush (talk) 01:56, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

{{Help me}}

Malleus et al., I could do with a hand. I need a verb for this sentence: "DYK ... that the Eurythmics' discography, which includes eight studio albums released between 1981 and 1999, resulted in sales of 75 million records?" It's the "resulted in" part that isn't right, but I don't know how to make it righter. Your help is greatly appreciated. Drmies (talk) 01:20, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

• How abour "Did you know... that the Eurythmics have released eight studio albums and sold over 75 million records?" Bencherlite^Talk 01:21, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks Bencherlite! Drmies (talk) 02:52, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
    • I don't know how to to make it righter? - surely you mean righterer, Drmies. What you writ couldn't be more wronger (or is that wrongerer?) :-) Richerman (talk) 18:54, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
      • Seems like someone is trying to sound Richermanlier than me. Or I. Do you think you're Richestman, maybe? Drmies (talk) 19:13, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
        • Well, that's a bit rich! Richerman (talk) 12:12, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
          • I'm probably too late to chip in; but how about "generated sales of..."?--Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 22:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving, Eric Corbett!
As we Pilgrims sit down at the dinner table and say our thanks, I would like to give thanks to you for your wonderful contributions and wish you a very happy "Bob's 'yer Uncle day" or what ever your next Holiday is in Jolly Old England. May your turkey or venison or goose or ham or beast of choice satiate you until next year! TRA! Buster Seven Talk 17:03, 22 November 2011 (UTC)}	A traditional Thanksgiving dinner.

• Malleus, have you had the joy of celebrating an American Thanksgiving? It is one of the few holidays I really like to celebrate, a day of personal reflection with family and friends, eating too much good food, drinking a little too much, then we go outside and play football until someone gets hurt, then go inside and fall asleep while watching NFL football. We make a four day holiday of it. It is actually quite enjoyable. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:28, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Gotta agree with Dennis. Thanksgiving is truly a terrific holiday...if nothing else there's 3 football games in one day and I don't have to get up early the next morning so I get to watch the last one in its entirety (unless I inevitably fall asleep early). Go Phightins! 00:30, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Nope, I never have. Malleus Fatuorum 00:51, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Funny story - one year, while living in Manchester, I tried to cook a Thanksgiving dinner. The girl at the Tesco checkout thought I'd lost my mind or something - buying very expensive and hard to find items such as cranberries, squash, etc. She kept asking whether I really wanted to spend so much. With much embarrassment and an American accent I explained why I was buying those particular items. You can imagine the look I got in return. I think I cooked duck instead of turkey. It's a very American tradition that I've decided to forgo this year. Too much cooking. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:59, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Hard to find squash over there? That seems hard to believe. But you know what, over here I've yet to see anyone cook up some of that stargazy pie that the Brits find so tasty, or so it says on Wikipedia... :) Gandydancer (talk) 01:19, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Haha, I just love that editor that wrote, "A stargazy pie, ready to serve". Hahaha. Can't stop laughing! Gandydancer (talk) 01:23, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Everything is better with Cool Whip

As long as you have turkey, dressing (stuffing), mashed potatoes, corn (maize), green beans, gravy, candied yams with the marshmallows on them, pumpkin and/or pecan pie, and a bunch of people all talking over each other, that is good enough. A jello mold, cranberries are also good. A goose, duck or other fowl is an acceptable substitute in a pinch. I still want to try a Turducken one year. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:24, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I could settle for simply turkey, potatoes, corn, and green beans. Never been a big pumpkin pie or yam fan. Go Phightins! 01:26, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

You have to have pie, or you won't have anything to put the Cool Whip on, a definite southeastern USA tradition. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:41, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Never been a big cool whip fan...from the mid-Atlantic, not the southeast, though. Go Phightins! 20:07, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

@Gandydancer - according to the Stargazy article, the pie originated in Cornwall. Beware of calling Cornish people you Brits ;) I'd never heard of it until last week when it featured in a BBC documentary; Food in England: The Lost World of Dorothy Hartley. As for yams, squash and pecans, yeuk, although the rest of a Thanksgiving dinner is similar to a moderately decent British Christmas dinner (except, perhaps, in Cornwall!). - Sitush (talk) 15:06, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

As the patriach I get to be "all-time" quarterback for both sides. I can still throw a nice Jr. football spiral to the adults and a soft lob to the kids. We usually play until the first sight of blood. 1/2 dozen homemade pies to follow. Is there a similar type holiday (families gathering to say thanks) in England? ```Buster Seven Talk 16:39, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

You are joking, aren't you Buster? We're hard-nosed, stiff upper-lipped, steely-eyed, lantern-jawed bastards over here. None of that wishy-washy emotion (aside from Diana fans, whose numbers can be approximated to the readership of The Daily Express). - Sitush (talk) 16:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Yep, I'll bet that 90% of Brits wouldn't know what stargazy pie was. I'd never heard until there was something about it on the TV a few months ago - I think it was on The One Show. It's one of those odd dishes specific to one village (Mousehole), like the Bakewell pudding (not to be confused with the Bakewell tart that everyone knows about). As for squash - we had some from Tesco only last week. Fresh cranberries are now widely available at Christmas and dried ones are available most of the time When I was a kid we had redcurrant jelly with turkey at Christmas, now we have freshly made cranberry sauce - how British cuisine has moved on! BTW, just to confuse our pilgrim cousins even more, the name of the village of Mousehole isn't pronounced as it's spelt, it's "mowsal". And it's true - I've met Sitush and he is a hard-nosed, stiff upper-lipped, steely-eyed, lantern-jawed bastard. I bet he played rugby at school. Oh, and he's about 2 feet taller than me, so I'd just like to say how good looking he is too. Richerman (talk) 16:53, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Sitush, most Americans do have the same meal at Christmas time as well, although ham is also a common Christmas meal in the southeastern US. A Christmas goose is tradition in a few small pockets. And of course, Chinese food (followed by a movie) is the stereotypical Christmas meal for our Jewish friends.[4] The key is to get a turkey that is 4mm smaller than the oven, so you have lots of leftovers for days, so you don't have to cook again. Turkey and milk gravy over toast is still one of my favorite all time "left overs". Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:27, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Hot turkey sandwiches...yum. Go Phightins! 20:30, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• Lazy brother-in-law asleep on the couch..ugh! ```Buster Seven Talk 21:21, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• Cousin Eddie! Now I'm going to have to pop that DVD in. I love that movie. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:45, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

This is precisely up your alley

Hello, Malleus, oh great god of form and grammar. (grin) I invite you to review and comment, as an uninvolved third party, the situation that is going on here: User talk:Montanabw#Impulsion The core issue is a difference of opinion I've been having with this other user now for the last couple of months, and the tendentiousness involved is starting to drive me crazy. (see [5] and [6] for the longer tale) It isn't so much that this user's edits are not, on occasion, helpful and have cleaned up some unneeded verbosity, it's that sometimes they went too far and altered nuance, but the crazy part that I'm coming to you about is that this user has what appears to be (JMO) an obsession with removing the phrase "term used to describe" and many instances of the word "describe" from every article in wikipedia. I'm willing to consider the degree to which I am in the wrong grammatically, but the other user's arguments have not convinced me and appear filled with form and not content. I think this other use may also benefit from the delicate touch only you can provide. Feel free to pop over to my talk page; I know that you'll also tell me if I'm full of shit, but you can do so in a manner that all can understand, and clear understanding of the issue appears to be the only way to solve it. (And if any of Malleus' TPSers think this is their idea of a good time, they are also invited to review and comment) Montanabw^(talk) 19:40, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

If you're looking for a "delicate touch" then I'm afraid you've come to the wrong shop Montanabw. But I'll try and remember to pop along later and see what it's all about. Malleus Fatuorum 19:54, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

You didn't click the link, did you? ;-) I'm asking you precisely because you are you. But anyway, now this idiot has filed a dispute resolution case. I hate the damn drahmahz boards, seriously, I'd rather someone I respect just tell me to eff off than deal with this stuff for the next two weeks. [7]. Montanabw^(talk) 20:25, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Circle Jerks?

Maybe these enterprising fellows should try simply listening to the Circle Jerks? "We've got nothing better to do", indeed.

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Wikipedians who are not a Wikipedian

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:31, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Theory of multiple intelligences

Many thanks for your edits there; the references were a mess. --MarchOrDie (talk) 06:45, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

They certainly were, but I've done what I can with them. Gardner's "theory" deserves a better article than that, so if you're planning to work on it I wish you luck. Malleus Fatuorum 01:40, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

It probably needs a complete rewrite, but I've done what I can in the meantime. Maybe in the future we could have another hack at it? For now, thanks a lot for your invaluable help. I learned a lot about referencing from watching you. --MarchOrDie (talk) 00:27, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

So many of the psychology articles are poor, as interestingly are the overwhelming majority of the computing articles, and almost all of the ... I just tend to close my eyes and look away. I keep thinking that what I ought to do is to concentrate on a little niche, like Ealdgyth's medieval English bishops, and leave everything else to rot. That way there might be at least a few small corners of Wikipedia that weren't an embarrassment. Malleus Fatuorum 00:58, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Why not?

I thought that you deserved something a bit extra for all of the amazing work you've done for the project. I've nominated you for a gift from the Wikimedia Foundation!

Sorry, but I've lit the blue touchpaper. Have a t-shirt. And if you don't ge one by right then I'll bloody well buy you one (I think one of my USAF mates is still at Mildenhall, so the dreaded P&P + duty will be exempted!) - Sitush (talk) 01:14, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

That's very kind of you Sitush, but I'm not a Wikipedian don't cha know, and never have been, so I couldn't possibly accept. Malleus Fatuorum 01:38, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

BTW, that's a very eloquent nomination statement Sitush. I could hardly have written a better one myself, and that's high praise indeed as far as I'm concerned. Malleus Fatuorum 01:47, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Just because one dick person says you are not a Wikipedian doesn't make it so. If I believed what people tell me in the Eagle & Child, at the end of the night when they give up trying to finish the crossword and ask me to fill in the remaining blanks, I'd consider myself rather clever. I'm not. - Sitush (talk) 01:50, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Oh yes, you could! It needs a copyedit but in this instance your intervention would not be appreciated ;) - Sitush (talk) 01:50, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll just make one serious point before bed if I may. The comments Jclemens made during that recent ArbCom fiasco, and the piling on of other ArbCom members to support an absurd site ban proposed by SirFozzie during the same case have left a very bad taste in my mouth. The only reason I'd accept a Wikipedia T-shirt would be to make a film of me burning it in the street. Malleus Fatuorum 02:22, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm off to bed also. Sleep on it. I understand your POV but think that you may be confusing the opinions of a few among a few (who just happen to hold office via an election process in which the vast majority do not participate) with the opinions of the wider community who, in the case you refer to, were generally vociferous in their condemnation of those few among the few. If you can follow my logic ... - Sitush (talk) 02:33, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

There's one other reason to accept the tshirt, Malleus. Because it would make Sitush feel good (he seems like a good egg). And, since I'm about to head over to that simultaneously-horrible-and-wonderful-idea-of-a-page and support, it would make me feel good too. In fact, it would probably drive some of your haters nuts knowing you got one, which is yet another good reason to accept it. --Floquenbeam (talk) 03:10, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

And best of all, you could ALSO make a video of you burning it. Montanabw^(talk) 21:47, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Better that these precious resources are reserved for proper Wikipedians, not the hoi poloi like me who merely write the fucking articles. Malleus Fatuorum 23:28, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

And what's worse, this kind of insulting behaviour is precisely what was always inevitable. Whenever you give people a chance to vote there will be some determined to use it as an opportunity to abuse those they don't like. I didn't put myself forward for this fucking T-shirt, I don't want the fucking T-shirt, and I don't want any more of the sort of fucking crap that Demiurge1000 and his friends specialise in. Malleus Fatuorum 01:36, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hey Malleus, I can ask for my nomination to be withdrawn and perhaps I should have sounded-out your opinion beforehand. Please accept my apologies for not asking first. However, I'd rather not withdraw: the t-shirt concept seems somewhat flawed to me but it is how it is and, regardless of your understandable disdain, there are times when it is better to be - a poor choice of word - humble. Accept whatever appreciation emerges for exactly what it is. Those who think that they know you well will probably feel your frustration and, to a lesser degree, may also feel mine. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the concept, there is a serious point regarding recognition that can be made here and being a curmudgeon about it seems to me to be taking things one step too far. What you do with the shirt, should you get one, is entirely your business but the physical object is symbolic and the thing that it signifies is of greater import. If I am honest, it hurts me slightly that you - a gentleman and, yes, a scholar - are in a place so dark that you are objecting even to a well-intentioned proposal. Obviously, it will not have even the remotest impact on our future meetings, both online and (hopefully) in person, but I do feel that sometimes people can take a principle just a bit too far.

Anyway, if you want me to withdraw the nomination then I will ask for that to be enacted. And I will apologise for putting you in such an awkward situation. Your friend, past, present and hopefully always - Sitush (talk) 01:57, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

hm. That was the edit conflict to trump all possible prior edit conflicts. :( - Sitush (talk) 01:59, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry for appearing to be ungrateful Sitush, but you have to understand that I'm not a forgiving person, although I do sometimes forget, and that recent ArbCom case has fundamentally hardened my attitude to Wikipedia. It's not easy being roundly abused for two weeks and faced with an indefinite block simply for moving a thread from talk back to the project page. That's not something easily forgotten. Even the bear pit of RfA only lasts for one week. I know that the Demiurge100s and MONGOs of this world would do whatever it takes to get rid of me, and so for me events like this one simply give them yet another soap box to jump on to deliver their diatribes about what a bad person I am. But it's happened now, so might as well leave it. Malleus Fatuorum 02:29, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, the block of him does deprive us watching one of the most interesting personalities on Wikipedia, a real artist.

On the bright side, the ANI thread had none of the "MF is notorious! Look at his block-log. He deserves any abuse he gets!" from previous ones. A bit of principle and evenness in civility enforcement (ugh) is refreshing. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:15, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with "Civility Enforcement" per se, if the punishment fits the crime. This is why civility issues are usually best dealt with by either two people leaving each other alone, a stern admonishment and reminder that Civility is a pillar, or both. Enforcement doesn't require blocks most of the time. Usually an independent and neutral party coming in and just saying "please stop this" and mediating the outstanding dispute, or sending the parties in different directions is sufficient. Blocks should be used only when it gets into genuine character assassination or a continuing pattern against an individual. The justification for a rare block isn't about the damage to the receiving party, it is when the acts are highly disruptive to the whole of Wikipedia and creates a negative and hostile editing environment for everyone. When it spills into the corredores. Of course, I don't pretend there is a consensus on civility at Wikipedia, I just try to be tolerant enough to avoid blocks whenever possible. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:51, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

• I would also add that blocks are easy and any admin can do it, mediating is hard and not everyone has the same skills. This is likely why blocks are used more often: They "solve" the problem with less effort, kind of like curing a sprained ankle by amputating the entire leg. This is also why demeanor and mediating skills are my number one criteria for admin candidates. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 16:15, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

  Well said. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:13, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

"I deflower Wikipedians"

""I knew it was your first time. I wanted to make that shit special".

Malleus, you deserve a "I deflower Wikipedians" t-shirt.

I was the least comely of a stream of virgin editors, each of whom had decided that it was time to edit like an adult and chose you to initiate us.

The community trusts you to know when to be gentle and when, like democracy's giving the people what they want, to give it good and hard. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:55, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Your Margaret Thatcher Revert

Rubbish?

Perhaps you might be interested in reading this quotation from DeBrett's:

Married Women

Traditionally, it is considered incorrect for a married woman or a widow to be addressed by her own forename or initials, as this implies that her marriage has been dissolved. However, it is becoming increasingly customary for married women and widows to use their own forenames and initials, and many people consider it acceptable.

Rubbish?

John Paul Parks (talk) 04:08, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

To presume that your original research based on historical rules of etiquette was enough to change it was in fact rubbish. I feel like you've had enough warnings about original research to know better. Ryan Vesey 04:20, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Since when has the arcane and twisted stylisms of DeBrett over-ruled Wikipedia norms and common sense? And how the heck did MT even fall under the purview of DeBrett in the 1950s? Is this a suitable moment to revive her "You turn if you want to; the lady is not for turning"? Or however it went? - Sitush (talk) 08:57, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

It's OR, but I've been married for over 30 years and have refused to give up my first name, it was enough I gave up my last name, I'll be goddamned if I lose my entire identity just for saying " I do." Montanabw^(talk) 21:49, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

My wife had published quite a few academic papers by the time we got married, so it was years before she changed her surname to mine. Malleus Fatuorum 23:25, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Person I'm still technically married to kept her own surname, then shortly after went from Ms Hersurname to Dr Hersurname. The home phone was in her name. As a result, when telemarketers called, I could in complete good faith say that there was neither Mrs Hersurname nor Mr Hersurname at this address. --Shirt58 (talk) 03:02, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes John, rubbish. Malleus Fatuorum

Re: Wikipedia:Merchandise giveaways/Nominations

I don't think there is a rule that prevents a banned user from being nominated, however based on this thread, I saw the nomination as editing via proxy, so I reverted them. If you want to reinstate the edit though, thats fine with me. Thanks, Legoktm (talk) 01:14, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

If someone wants to nominate Thekohser where's the harm? I doubt he'll gather much support, but so what? And why assume that the nominator was acting as a proxy rather than in good faith? Malleus Fatuorum 01:19, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Of note, I have begun a discussion here about oppose !votes in case you're interested. v/r AutomaticStrikeout 04:06, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't it have been better to start that discussion at Wikipedia Talk:Merchandise giveaways/Nominations? Malleus Fatuorum 14:39, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

For what it is worth, it seems like an interesting program made in good faith. I'm of the mind of just ignoring candidates that are not really likely or eligible, instead of making it a larger issue. I would just hate to see it twisted, when it should be a way of saying "thank you" (t shirt or not) and recognizing quality contributors, something we do too little of. Sometimes the best way to avoid drama is simply to not participate in it. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:25, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

In case it's not obvious I'm very, very much against turning an initiative to thank editors for their contributions into some kind of editor review or RfA bear pit. Which is why I was so against accepting a T shirt myself, because I knew that's how it would turn out. Surely it's not too much to ask people to admit that even editors they loathe have made good contributions to Wikipedia? Or at the very least to keep their fucking mouths shut for once if they've got nothing good to say. Malleus Fatuorum 01:25, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, I agree that it is a rather stupid exercise and will end up merely confirming existing positions etc + be liable to the sort of crap that appears at RfA. I'll even admit to some mischievousness in nominating you with that point in mind, although there was also the genuine point that "well, if they are worthy then so is Malleus". Personally, I'd be happy to take any offer of clothing, such is my present state. I'd even take some Wikipedia-logo'd Andrex etc. Despite all of this, if they are worthy then surely you are worthy. Sometimes one has to play the game and, yes, this is a game. It is a long one, and someimes it is worth bearing the potential longevity in mind, Regardless, you and I will share a pint or two if we should meet again and hopefully that will count for more than a t-shirt. - Sitush (talk) 01:38, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh I know you and I agree on this 100% Malleus. Best to just vote if you chose to, and not say anything unless you have something nice to say. There is a time and place for everything, and that page isn't the place to jump on a soapbox. I was debating asking to be removed simply so I could "clerk it" a bit, and because I wanted to mention it at WP:WER but didn't feel comfortable linking to it while I was listed there. And I didn't want to offend anyone at the same time. Catch 22. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 01:43, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Some people need to be offended, it's good for them. There are too many mean spirits here. Malleus Fatuorum 02:37, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I am offended by that remark ;) - Sitush (talk) 02:45, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

And there is a time and place for everything. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:52, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Deep vein thrombosis

You're a dear, thanks! Malleus, Tony seems swamped right now, and I'm not sure if this is covered in one of his tutorials, which have grown-- do you have any guidance on the correct use (aka overuse) of the word "however"? Hey, eat a turkey on Thursday in honor of your friends across the pond. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:47, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I do; avoid it when there's no contradiction and when there is, never start a sentence with it. Curiously I just came across one I fixed earlier.[8] I wasn't going to help, but Biosthmors seemed so keen, so ... Malleus Fatuorum 02:25, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

SG, on "however" this may help. But given the extreme overuse of "however" (and "subsequently", and "is currently" on Wikipedia) Mally's rule is as good as any. Kablammo (talk) 02:51, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I simply paraphrased and simplified what Fowler had to say. But I think a good candidate for the most overused and abused word in Wikipedia is "located", as in "Dumbville is a town located in Dumbass county". (BTW, I'm pleased to see that neither of us is afraid to start a sentence with a conjunction.) Malleus Fatuorum 03:01, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Or end a sentence with one either? Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:41, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I extend my thanks to y'all for the tips and help. Biosthmors (talk) 19:12, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

ANI and Demiurge

Dammit, I plow through ANI regularly just to see if you got in trouble again, and here I missed the entire show. Couldn't drop a single witty remark, in regular or tiny font. Bollocks. Listen, some time tomorrow we're off to the country, where there's no wireless. However, I trust that you, however, with one of your secret admin accounts, nonetheless, can keep things in check notwithstanding. Also, I agree re:however, above. Please give my regards to Mrs. Malleus, Drmies (talk) 22:49, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

How the Hell would I have got hold of a secret admin account? And why the fuck if I had wouldn't I have been using it to make Wikipedia a better place, not just for me? The only encouraging thing I can take from this episode is the singular lack of "well, it's only Malleus, he deserves whatever he gets" comments. Malleus Fatuorum 23:17, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

There are only something like 600–700 active administrators on Wikipedia right now I think. I defy anyone to find any link between me and any of them. It's just a lie, that some will nevertheless choose to believe. Malleus Fatuorum 23:22, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

My new goal is to be so grumpy that everyone thinks I'm your secret admin account. Malleus Floquorum (talk) --23:25, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

I have to warn you, it's not easy being me. ;-) Malleus Fatuorum 23:27, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

That's a very uncivil comment against yourself, I mean myself, so I (I mean you) might just have to block yourself (myself? himself? I'm confused) for it. Malleus Bencherlorum 23:35, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

•  Done. And good riddance Malleus Criscolorum 23:40, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Great! Now we have enough admins for a To Tell the Truth episode. --Malleus Floquorum (talk) 23:44, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Y'all are just too funny. Demiurge 1001 (talk) 23:44, 20 November 2012 (UTC)