User talk:Onceinawhile

DYK for Jisr el-Majami

On 17 May 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Jisr el-Majami, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Italy helped to renovate a bridge between Israel and Jordan? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Jisr el-Majami), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

those map things

I more than doubled the resolution of Jerusalem 10K. Next I'll upload two 1:20K of the same place for 1930s and 1940s. Zero^talk 13:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @Zero0000: I have been working on the Survey of Palestine article in the meantime. I think it is starting to look good. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:21, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I added 1928 and 1942 1:20K maps. Incidentally at least 13 of the 1:20K maps were published in 1928 or 1929. I renamed "Category:Survey of Palestine 1930-1948 1-20,000 maps" on Commons to "Category:Survey of Palestine 1928-1948 1-20,000 maps" for that reason. However, I'm not happy with "1-20,000" either; it should be "1:20,000". Also it isn't true that all of the pre-1940 1:20K maps were in the coastal region, as this Jericho map and several others prove. Most of them are in the coastal region, though, can we wrote that instead on the basis that maps are reliable sources too? Zero^talk 14:58, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

@Zero0000: thank you. The dash instead of a colon is because the commons system won’t allow colons in file names.

On the coastal region only point, doesn’t that relate to cadastral survey?

Onceinawhile (talk) 17:07, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

I see what you mean re the coastal point. I have amended it. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

New article

I am working on a new article "Declarations of State Land in the West Bank". Want to team up on it? You can put in your dyk list when its done:) I'll do a stub and go from there.Selfstudier (talk) 13:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Cancel that, most of it is in Land expropriation in the West Bank :( Selfstudier (talk) 14:37, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

@Selfstudier: This topic does deserve a full article, particularly the Mandate part of it. Almost 10 years ago I started the article of Ottoman Land Code of 1858 on which this issue is founded. I would certain be happy to collaborate here. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:44, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

OK. It's a bit jumbled up in the expropriation article but I guess we can set up the outside article and then somehow link out to it from there. Btw, it was your Palestine Survey article/hook that set me off on this to start with.Selfstudier (talk) 14:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

I put a draft here just for now until we have a stub. Selfstudier (talk) 15:25, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Selfstudier, thank you. I have added some sources and will try to find some more. How would you feel about expanding the scope to the whole of the region, i.e. so that it includes the same practices during the mandate period and in Israel proper? Onceinawhile (talk) 22:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Sure, the laws they are (mis)using go all the way back and they use similar in Israel (that's how they convince themselves it's all OK).Selfstudier (talk) 22:24, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

K, the article is here now.Selfstudier (talk) 13:02, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

DYK for First Jordan Hydro-Electric Power House

On 7 June 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article First Jordan Hydro-Electric Power House, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that only one hydroelectric plant was built on the Jordan River, out of the fourteen planned by Pinhas Rutenberg (depicted)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/First Jordan Hydro-Electric Power House. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, First Jordan Hydro-Electric Power House), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:01, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

fyi

Wikipedia_talk:Edit_requests#Argument_about_these_procedures Zero^talk 12:37, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

General question

Why do people add sources to a reference section when they aren't used as reference in the article. Isn't that what we have a general "Sources" section for? I am asking you after noticing this edit of yours. Debresser (talk) 20:09, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Debresser, because there is information in the source directly relevant to the article, and I intend to add relevant footnotes in due course. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:09, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

I see. Then why not wait till such time as you add the footnote? Again, just asking. Debresser (talk) 09:05, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Debresser, because then I have to write a note elsewhere in order to remember, and then I have to remember where that note was. This way is much more logical. Also there is a chance that other interested editors will read it in the meantime. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:08, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. Debresser (talk) 23:43, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Sykes-Picot

In this map, there are both a black dashed line and a red dashed line, some distance apart, around the E and S of Palestine. Do you know anything about that? Zero^talk 13:41, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

I was not asked but I think it is just for practical reasons, so that the blue and red lines do not overlap.

Note it is not described as Palestine or the Holy Land in the Sykes Picot agreement but as Holy Places... 2A02:2788:925:F87E:E977:4E0:7431:CDAB (talk) 15:27, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Zero0000: In all my reading around the negotiations, I don't remember this being a discussion. If I were to guess I would agree with the IP - I have always assumed it is for the same reason that the red and blue lines overlap, they simply wanted to make clear the boundaries of each territory, even if that means duplicating a line. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Handala

On 27 June 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Handala, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Handala is considered to portray the Palestinian identity "with astounding clarity"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Handala. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Handala), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

maps

Hi, I found the information I need here. Now I can make a script that takes a piece A of the 1940s maps with known borders in the Palestine Grid, and automatically constructs a piece B of maps.wikimedia of the same location at the same scale, and an animation C from A to B. The initial image A will need to be made by hand using the grid lines. Instead of C, we can explore javascript options and make a template for it. Do you see any issues? Zero^talk 12:01, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi Zero0000, I wonder whether the image A could also be made automatically, if POM would donate the full stitched map? If you zoom out on their stitched map it shows excellent regularity.

Onceinawhile (talk) 21:05, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I expect they have it split into tiles rather than stitched, but that would do too. Zero^talk 01:28, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

See your email. Zero^talk 10:25, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Please see Template talk:Infobox settlement#Why_not_more_wikidata?. Also use the Archives search for "Wikidata" at Template talk:Infobox person. I share many of the concerns raised. Zero^talk 06:35, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Survey of Palestine

Hello! Your submission of Survey of Palestine at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! CMD (talk) 17:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Hebraization of Palestinian place names

Hello! Your submission of Hebraization of Palestinian place names at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 17:31, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

The nomination has been marked for closure, and could be closed at any time. If you wish to save it, you need to respond immediately. Best of luck. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:49, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you BlueMoonset. I have had a go. Onceinawhile (talk) 06:35, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Onceinawhile, your question there was answered later that day; please keep monitoring your nomination there going forward, because not everyone remembers to ping and not every ping goes through; for now, please stop by and continue work on the issues raised. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:42, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Dumbledore Wizardry Barnstar
		For Once’s cartographic acumen, and coordination in magically putting Palestinians back on the map. Nishiduncy 07:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm technically inept, and I'm sure one more competent than I (doesn't take much) can readapt to get the right, discreetly smaller image centered. Best regards Nishidani (talk) 09:21, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Survey of Palestine

On 20 July 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Survey of Palestine, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Survey of Palestine was the only government department in Mandatory Palestine not headquartered in Jerusalem? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Survey of Palestine. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Survey of Palestine), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:02, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Maps

I've recreated the 1945 maps of Mandatory Palestine into an SVG file that can be editted. Right now I am mastering the map and on the same time making a map of population count in each locality (preview). Do you have any idea what kind of maps can be produced with this? I am planning on making a map for population density and religious affiliation.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 16:38, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Bolter21, that is a great idea. I would think the other topic which would fit very nicely would be land ownership by Jewish / Arab / public. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:19, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

More maps

Regarding this, how comes it says " Survey of Israel (1928)"? I didn't know there was a "Survey of Israel (1928)"?

I could change it direct, but I assume it is from some central template, or whatnot, and we should change it there? Huldra (talk) 23:03, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I suppose "Survey of Israel" means "Survey of Palestine" as the publisher and 1928 as the year of publication.Bolter21--188.64.206.107 (talk) 23:45, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, it shouldn't. Even though SoI was a successor to SoP, it wasn't the same organization. We can use SoI on maps produced from 1948 onwards even though for quite a while they were SoP maps with overprints. Zero^talk 05:48, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

July 2020

Please stop attacking other editors, as you did on Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Responses_(MEMRI). If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please strike your comment. Infinity Knight (talk) 17:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Maps

Hello, Onceinawhile. I noticed that your recent edit to Al-Khalasa added a link to an image on an external website or on your computer, or to a file name that does not exist on Wikipedia's server. For technical and policy reasons it is not possible to use images from external sources on Wikipedia. Most images you find on the internet are copyrighted and cannot be used on Wikipedia, or their use is subject to certain restrictions. If the image meets Wikipedia's image use policy, consider uploading it to Wikipedia yourself or request that someone else upload it. See the image tutorial to learn about wiki syntax used for images. Thank you. - Sumanuil (talk) 02:35, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Sumanuil: thanks for your message. These are mislinks to commons – I will go through and fix them. Onceinawhile (talk) 04:45, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Do you think it would be better to change the image filenames or the links? Zero^talk 05:12, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Zero0000: A number of these are maps where the page name matches the filename, but I had incorrectly overridden because most (but seemingly not all) of the “Al-“ villages had different cases. So for these that I am fixing they now match better. Onceinawhile (talk) 05:16, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I have not been able to fix all of the redlinks yet:

• Al-Khalasa and Auja al-Hafir have only one map
• Al-Hamma, Tiberias, and Al-Mansura, Acre and az-Zakariyya are missing maps which I think are available.

Onceinawhile (talk) 05:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

@Sumanuil: please could you let me know how you identified the villages with redlinks? I made this edit to 400 articles; I would like to double check that all the rest are working. Onceinawhile (talk) 05:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I regularly check the maintenance category "Articles with missing files", and they were listed there because of the missing maps. - Sumanuil (talk) 21:44, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Sumanuil, that is very helpful. Thank you. I just took a look there myself – gives me comfort that the rest of the uploads worked exactly as planned. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:26, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Al-Hamma, Tiberias needs construction by hand because of its location. See here. It isn't on the PEF map. There is a map by Schumacher that could be used in place of PEF. For Al-Mansura, Acre, the overlay map breaks but the other three maps are ok and I'll send them. Zero^talk 08:43, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta

On 7 August 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the name of the former Palestinian village al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta may have been a tribute to the Mamluk sultan al-Zahir Baybars? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:03, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Image frame alignment

In Special:Diff/971814668, you used {{Image frame}} with both align=left and align=right. What did you mean to do there? Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:42, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Jackmcbarn, thank you - I have now fixed this. Onceinawhile (talk) 19:53, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Hebraization of Palestinian place names

On 11 August 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Hebraization of Palestinian place names, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that there is a recent trend to reverse the Hebraization of street names in mixed Jewish–Arab cities in Israel? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hebraization of Palestinian place names. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Hebraization of Palestinian place names), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:03, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Historical map series

I updated Template:Historical map series to allow 6 maps. See Talk:Kfar Chabad for an example. I didn't try to add that to the article infobox. Three things about this template are sub-optimal: (1) text doesn't flow around it, (2) it would be good if the "show all" option could be optionally suppressed, (3) how to put it in a figure with an overall caption? See User talk:Jackmcbarn#switcher-container class. Zero^talk 14:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Zero0000, I have added a frame there - does that solve your (1) and (3)? I will have a look into (2). Onceinawhile (talk) 14:51, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

I have asked here re (2). Onceinawhile (talk) 15:13, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Zero^talk 15:55, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry

Bloom6132 (talk) has given you a dove! Doves promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past (this fits perfectly) or a good friend. Cheers!

---

Spread the peace of doves by adding {{subst:Peace dove}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

I'm sorry for the things I said in the heat of the moment. Thanks for proving to be the bigger person! —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:32, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

WP PHO

Hi habibi, please tag your new articles with {{PHOA}} assessment tag and add categories to the mainspace. If you hesitate or don't feel like it ping me and i will take it from there. NB: GREAT JOB! ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 05:35, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi hbb I am removing the PHO banners from paleo/neolithic archeological site articles. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 06:11, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Elie plus, I agree – I got a bit carried away there. Onceinawhile (talk) 06:15, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

No worries ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 06:17, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Are you Paul Bedson? ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 06:22, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Elie plus, no. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:18, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank goodness lol ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 11:37, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

1948 villages

Thanks again for the amazing work (and Zero!) have done on the map-section of the 1948-villages!

I have one little point: this in effect means that there are 4 new files to put into each commons-category; I have started to do so (eg on Arab Suqrir), alas I am slooooow (and ~400x4 =~1600 edits).

Do you have any magic method to speed it up? cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:19, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Huldra, do you use Commons:Help:Gadget-Cat-a-lot? It is a very effective tool - perhaps the best one on commons. It makes moving files between categories very easy. It will reduce the number of edits from 1600 down to just(!) 400. For example it took less than 10 seconds to move all these four files in one go: [1] [2] [3] [4]. Onceinawhile (talk) 06:59, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, but sorry, I'm not very technical; I cannot see how to use? I have switched it on, (I get the little "cat-a-lot" post-it), but the problem is with: "select individual image thumbnails by clicking in the white space of the thumbnail description"? Which thumbnail picture, where? Huldra (talk) 23:30, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Huldra, I struggled with exactly that question when first using it. What to do is: when on the category page (1) press the cat-a-lot button on the bottom right once, so that the post-it opens up, then (2) click once near but not on the filename of an image (e.g. immediately to the right of “.jpg”) and the whole filename area should turn yellow. Once yellow, it is “selected”. You can then select as many as you like, including holding down the shift key to select multiple rows. Onceinawhile (talk) 05:36, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

A video intro to using Cat-a-lot

Mmmmmm, I get (1), but how do I get (2)? Eg: I search for "al-Bassa"; I get several files (which I suspect are uncat), Nothing happens when I click near their file-names? Huldra (talk) 23:30, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: have you watched this video? It is clearer than I can be using text. If you follow exactly what they are doing in the video, is there a point where the same doesn’t work for you? Onceinawhile (talk) 05:28, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

About 2:13: how do you get that picture? Huldra (talk) 22:02, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Huldra, it’s just here Commons:Category:Baseball players if you scroll down. To be able to them yellow you have to have clicked the cat-a-lot button in the bottom right first. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:35, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

To editor Huldra: We have a much larger collection of map sequences for post-1948 locations, but they need a lot of work before they are ready. Zero^talk 07:48, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

To editor Zero0000: May I ask that you add the cat.s while you are at it? Padres Hana are also uploading some, and not "catting" them, but he isn't as active/efficient as you two are! -> in short, I can manage his lot....

Also, are some of a larger area? ie can they be added to the subdistrict-level-cat.s? That would be useful, Huldra (talk) 23:30, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I don’t think it is possible to do this in bulk – the upload tool used, called ComeOn, requires that all have the same Summary, Licencing and Categories (except the description which was pulled from the metadata). Onceinawhile (talk) 05:43, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: did you manage to get Cat-a-lot working? Onceinawhile (talk) 20:53, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

No, I didn't; I'm just doing them one by one as they pop up, Huldra (talk) 21:47, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi Huldra, that is a shame. Just rereading the discussion above, to double check, maybe try the following:

• When you search for "al-Bassa", only afterwards when the search results are showing, press on the little cat-a-lot post it such that it "pops up" like in the picture above.
• The post it should then take up maybe a quarter of your screen. Whilst the post it is still filling up your screen, if you then click on the black description text underneath each of the file's blue links, does it not turn yellow?

Onceinawhile (talk) 22:35, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, and I get "4 files selected" in the bottom right hand corner (after I clicked on 4 files). Huldra (talk) 20:16, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Huldra, that is excellent – you have got it working! Do you need any more help re what to do next? Onceinawhile (talk) 21:16, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Ok? Also, be aware that I edit on a portable: that pop-up thingy fills 3/4 of the right-hand part of my screen, Huldra (talk) 21:27, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Hi Huldra, me too (at least half the time). I am very glad you have it working now – it will save a lot of time in moving multiple files between categories. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:42, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Sorry, but that was Ok?, as in affirmative (yes! I need more help!) Huldra (talk) 21:46, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Huldra, ha ok! If you give me an example of a task you would like to complete, I will talk you through it. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:52, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Ok, I have "4 files selected" in the bottom right hand corner, what next? How do I get these into the el-Bassa -category? Huldra (talk) 21:57, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Huldra, ok, at the top of the pop up box there is a small white row which says “Enter Category Name”. Put “Al-Bassa” in there and press return or enter on your keypad. That will cause the list of blue links in the yellow box to change, and one of them will be Al-Bassa. On the right of Al Bassa (and all the other links) there will be + and - signs. Press the plus sign. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:07, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

  Whaw, finally, I managed it. I have done a few villages (as they pop up on my watch-list): there are a few problems though: the major one is that I want the village name first in the cat-list (it is a difficult to see "Suba" say, here, now I always get the "Historical map series for Israel and Palestine" first. Is there someway to get the village name first? Huldra (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

  Hi Huldra, that is great news! I hope you find it saves a lot of time in future. As to the order of the categories, unfortunately I don't know of any way to fix that automatically. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:19, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Also, at Az-Zakariyya something has gone wrong with the maps? Huldra (talk) 20:23, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Huldra, yes thank you for pointing out – I fixed it. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:15, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

I think the 1940's one is still missing? Huldra (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions

Hello! Your submission of Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 14:26, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Survey of Palestine

Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted Your nomination for featured picture status, File:Survey of Palestine 1942-1958 1-100,000 sheet index georef.png, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. Armbrust The Homunculus 17:43, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Jerusalem timeline

Hi. I was dealing with the Siege of Jerusalem page when a careful editor removed this: "Sack of Jerusalem (350 BCE) by Artaxerxes III, who retakes the city from Jewish rebels and burns it down", correctly noting that the linked article says nothing about Artaxerxes and Jerusalem. I dug a bit deeper, and found out that this line was adopted from the Timeline of Jerusalem, where loooong time ago you added a lot of good material, but also this:

• 350 BCE: Jerusalem revolts against Artaxerxes III, along with other cities of the Levant and Cyprus. Artaxerxes III, retakes the city and burns it down in the process. Jews who supported the revolt are sent to Hyrcania on the Caspian Sea.

The edit is here, 22:38, 17 September 2010.

That seems to be totally wrong, unless you can prove otherwise (there are no inline sources for the entire paragraph; 2010, I know, different times). I can see from good sources, not just from Wiki, that there have been several regional revolts against Achaemenid rule in the region around that time, leading to Persian interventions. During the one fitting the date, in 351-50, Pharaoh Nectanebo II successfully repelled the Persians. In a next revolt, taking place between 350-347, King Tennes of Sidon (r. 351-347) and several allies managed to repulse two satraps, but was defeated when Artaxerxes arrived with an army of Greeks and Persians, burning down Sidon (he or the citizens themselves did it). Jews of Phoenicia who had been allied to Tennes were exiled to the south coast of the Caspian Sea. So in c. 347, not 350. In a 1986 paper from the the Society of Biblical Literature, on p. 638, the expedition of Artaxerxes III against Tennes and his allies (so from c. 347) is cited as the cause for the destruction layers excavated at Hazor, Megiddo, Athlit, Lachish, Jericho - but not a word about Jerusalem. Then Artaxerxes again invaded Egypt in 343 and this time he defeated Nectanebo II, Jews from Egypt being sent either to Babylon or to the same location on the Caspian Sea as those from Phoenicia in 346.

There had been previous revolts and wars, one between Nectanebo I and Artaxerxes II beginning in the 370s and continuing throughout the 360s, starting off a wave of regional revolts. The son of Nectanebo I, Tachos/Teos, tried around 360 to take the war to the Persians, but failed. In the 1986 paper, it's the 365/4-362 revolt that is associated with the story of Bagoas/Bagoses. One of the Persian generals of Artaxerxes III is a certain Bagoas, and Nöldeke, Wellhausen and others identify him with Bagoses from Josephus' Antiquities (so says the Jerusalem art. of the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1906). Josephus writes how Bagoses defiled the Temple and had the Jews pay a tax on each lamb offered at the Temple for the next 7 years because the High Priest John/Yohanan had killed his own brother Jesus/Yeshua inside the Temple, and Yeshua happened to be Bagoses' friend (see the text for instance here, Ant. 11.302-347 or here, Book XI, Ch. 7:1-2). Anyway, the paper states almost as proven fact that the High-Priest-cum-governor from Jerusalem had also taken part in that revolt during the 2nd half of the 360s (pp. 637-8).

That's all I could find. Nowhere anything from this period about a siege of Jerusalem by Artaxerxes III ending with him burning down the city. Wherever else in Judea there are traces of Persian destruction, it's from the earlier war, in c. 362, by the previous Persian king, Artaxerxes II, not A. III. Also the Caspian Sea exile is from c. 347 (this one maybe comes close) and 343. Nothing fits.

This would also have been a third destruction of Jerusalem, quite memorable, and everybody only mentions two, 586 BCE and 70 CE.

So: can you figure out what the source was, and check again if you still trust it? For now I will amend both pages based on what I have found. Thank you, Arminden (talk) 21:48, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Arminden, sadly I remember building most of the timeline from a variety of Wikipedia articles. It was right at the start of my time editing – I had only been around a few months, and this was perhaps my 25th edit in Wikipedia.

I have looked around in a few sources – the most specific I can find refers to “... calamity that befell Jerusalem and the temple at that time...” in Artaxerxes III Ochus and his reign. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:42, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, it makes perfect sense now, this would fit well the Temple desecration story from Josephus or who knows what. No burning down of Jerusalem, that's important now. Somebody probably overinterpreted those difficult two verses from Isaiah and presented their imaginative interpretation as historical fact. Don't worry, I started editing after you, I think, and didn't do it any different. Arminden (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Quotations in footnotes

Dear Onceinawhile. You are an amazing Wikipedian, whereas I am still a novice. However, I found that you just like me often use quotations in footnotes (e.g. Philistines and Kadesh inscriptions). However, despite undeniably enhancing verifiability, they seem not to be well accepted among editors. Some deleted the quotations my footnotes (see Battle of Entzheim revision 18:55 29 June 2020). Some want me to change to a simpler citation style "In future, 'Burke (1949), p. 3' is all that is necessary." (Talk:Sir George Hamilton, Comte Hamilton). Certain AWB users apply "General fixes" to my quotations thereby "correcting" them, mainly by removing commas from dates in old-fashioned formats (e.g. "1 July, 1642" -> "1 July 1642"). One friendly, very experienced user on 28 Oct 2019 logged the bug T236729 "Genfixes removes comma from quoted date" in Phabricator, but its status still is "Open, Needs Triage". I wonder whether you have experienced similar problems. What could be done to make editors see the usefulness of quotations in footnotes? With many thanks, Johannes Schade (talk) 16:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Dear Johannes Schade, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. You are making an excellent impact on the encyclopaedia.

I feel strongly about the topic of quotations in footnotes - so long as they don't cross the copyright line (a few sentences is fine), they provide instant verifiability particularly for contentious subjects. Importantly they solve the asymmetry in edit wars - for example, if an editor comes along to delete something you wrote a few years ago, it takes them just a few seconds to challenge the source, but can take much much longer to go back to double check the book where you sourced the sentence from. If the quote is already there then the playing field is level.

As you say, not all editors agree. Have a look for example at the discussion in these threads: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive954#Balfour Declaration and Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Balfour Declaration/archive1#Response to Brianboulton. Enough editors agreed that the quotations were necessary, and the article has been recognized as a Featured Article for the last three years. Another example is Mandate for Palestine, recognized as a Good Article, in the same highly disputed topic area. There is no clear policy on the topic of quotations in footnotes, so it is up to consensus on any given page. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:15, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Dear Onceinawhile. You made my day yesterday. Thank you for your careful reply and the links provided. Yes, instant verifiability is what we need. The deleters seem to act mainly on an urge to remove "clatter". They say very few readers read notes. True. But if Wikipedia is not easily verifiable, it loses trust and therefore readers. We need a verifiability system that supports the main text with a few clicks and no clatter. Luckily, Wikipedia is not a paper book, but a collection of interactive websites. The notes and references should be hidden. I saw with interest your use of hidden tables. You might have seen that I also like them. Unluckily, enclosing {{reflist}} in a hidden table does not work. I wonder whether I should not propose "hiding notes and references" on Village-Pump Idea-Lab. What do you think? With many thanks, Johannes Schade (talk) 12:01, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Dear Johannes Schade, many thanks for your message. I forgot to mention that there is an official guideline supporting the use of quotes-in-footnotes: WP:FOOTQUOTE, which states "A footnote may also contain a relevant exact quotation from the source. This is especially helpful when the cited text is long or dense. A quotation allows readers to immediately identify the applicable portion of the reference. Quotes are also useful if the source is not easily accessible. In the case of non-English sources, it may be helpful to quote from the original text and then give an English translation." Personally I think that consensus around sourcing of the highest-possible quality has continued to get stronger over the years, and will continue to do so.

On sources in tables, one solution is shown at Demographic history of Palestine (region), where small text is used to explain the source of the tables, with an end-of-article footnote linked to it. I am not even sure this is allowed now though, as there was a recent RFC on deprecating inline citations. I think the community does not like citations being structurally dispersed around an article.

Onceinawhile (talk) 16:00, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Russian Bank

Hello! Your submission of Russian Bank at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Binksternet (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Phoenico-punic art

Hi habibi do you have an article about the Ford collection sarcophagi? Also can you help me populate Category:Phoenician art?

Hi @Elie plus: I have been keeping an eye out for it, given their prominent place in the Beirut Museum. I haven't found the edicio princeps yet though. I am quite keen to build out articles on all the famous necropoli, as many of the most impressive Phoenician artefacts comes from there.

I will add more to that category.

Onceinawhile (talk) 10:53, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks a million, you're my go to guy here ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 12:29, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Elie plus, I found it here:

• Editio princeps: Charles Cutler Torrey. “A Phoenician Necropolis at Sidon” The Annual of the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem, vol. 1, 1919, pp. 1–27.
• Brian R. Doak (26 August 2019). The Oxford Handbook of the Phoenician and Punic Mediterranean. Oxford University Press. p. 718. ISBN 978-0-19-049934-1. In 1930, the American Presbyterian Mission School donated the newly named Ford Collection of anthropoid sarcophagi to the Beirut National Museum together with a number of other artifacts. This is still today the largest collection of this type of sarcophagi in the world.
• Surviving the test of time: "The highlight of the National Museum of Beirut is its collection of anthropoid sarcophagi"

Onceinawhile (talk) 16:57, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Carpentras Stela

Hello! Your submission of Carpentras Stela at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! -- RoySmith (talk) 22:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Pictures...

On another issue, do you know an easy way to split up books, and upload the pictures independently?

To be specific; Charles William Meredith van de Velde published a book in 1857, it is uploaded to commons, here. That is nearly useless, unless they are uploaded individually and categorised. Looking at the contents, it has some pictures from places where we have no previous pictures from, say Kfarhamam.

I have uploaded some, one after the other, link,link,link, but it is sloooooow.

Do you know of any easier way of doing it? (I don't mind adding the correct cats to the files, afterwards, if neccessary!) Huldra (talk) 23:56, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: I don't know where you got those png images, but the best quality seems to be available like this: Down this huge file which is a 641MB zip file containing every image as a separate file in jp2 format. Unfortunately the files have numbers not meaningful names, so it seems that names need to be assigned manually. There are 193 images, usually 3-5MB. Once is the expert on bulk uploads so I'll let him/her suggest how to do that. Zero^talk 03:51, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Now I see that the images include pages of text as well as pictures. There are 101 pictures and two maps. Zero^talk 03:56, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: It is not so straightforward unfortunately. I tried this morning and it crashed my computer, as I ran out of both types of memory... Anyway, I did manage to get 24 converted and uploaded (as you can see File:LePaysdIsrael Vallee de Sichem.jpg, this one went wrong part way through).

Anyway, some thoughts on this:

• Bulk uploading at this scale is easy using UploadWizard - it can take 25 at a time, and you can use the same descriptions etc., so if you have the file names done then the rest is automatic
• The issue is getting the files in the first place. Zero's zip of jp2 files needs conversion into jpgs (commons doesn't accept jp2) - that is what blew my computer today
• Another way of doing it is zooming into the archive.org viewer to a high resolution, then saving the image. This is probably the easiest way.

Onceinawhile (talk) 10:51, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

No, don't do that. I can convert to jpg easily. Zero^talk 11:28, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

To editor Huldra: I'll send you both a file of jpegs tomorrow. Zero^talk 11:35, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually the conversion finished already, but I'm not satisfied. The image size (typically 7000 x 10000 or even larger) is much greater than the picture detail allows. At full zoom the image pixels are about 5-10 pixels in size, I guess due to the printing mask of the originals. I will try reducing the size by about a factor of 2, which will make the file sizes more manageable without losing any detail. Zero^talk 11:54, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that looks great. Zero^talk 11:58, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Sent. Zero^talk 12:27, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Great, thanks. I have uploaded them all: Commons: Category:Charles William Meredith van de Velde. I did not have time to make better file names – Huldra is it easy for you to change the names with your “filemover” powers? Onceinawhile (talk) 12:57, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Wonderful! Yeah, I can easily change the filenames, The numbering, (according to this), should also be included, somehow. Unfortunately, it may have to wait some time, due to RL thingies, cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:19, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

If anyone could provide the content register, here, in a format where I could copy/paste it, it would make my job getting the right names (like I do here) very much easier.. Huldra (talk) 23:25, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Huldra, your wish is my command:[5]

1. Title page. Wady Fasail, le Torrent de Kerith. 2. Beirout, vue prise de la route de Schemlan. 3. Aberyh, village dans le Liban. 4. En Neby-Yunas. 5. Saida (Sidon), vue septentrionale. 6. Sidon, vue meridionale. 7. Le Chateau de saint Louis a Sidon. 8. Sidon, vue generale prise des jardins. 9. Le Nahr el-Auwly (le Bostrenus.) 10. Le Nahr-Sanik pres sa source. 11. Kalat esch-Schekif (Belfort des Croises.) 12. L'arrivee a Hasbeiya. 13. Hasbeiya. 14. Le mont Hermon, vu de Khalwet el-Biyad. 15. Le mont Hermon, vue prise de Thelthatha. 16. Site pres de Schuweiya (environs de Hasbeiya.) 17. Ruines d'un temple a Hibariyeh. 18. Kefr-Hamam (environs de Hasbeiya.) 19. Kalat-Aisafa, ruines pres de Kefr-Hamam. 20. Le lac el-Houleh (les eaux de Merom.) 21. El-Nahr Hasbany (le Jourdain superieur.) 22. Le Hasbany pres de sa source. 23. Djisr-Burghuz, pont sur le Litany (Leontes.) 24. Le Leontes au-dessous de Burghuz. 25. Ravin du Leontes pres de Belat. 26. Gorge du Leontes pres du Khatwh. 27. La vallee du Hasbany (vue meridionale prise d'Ibl.) 28. Kalat-Hounin. 29. Bint-Djebsil. 30. Ruines d'une synagogue a Kefr-Berim. 31. Ruines de Hazour ou Hazireh. 32. Kabr-Hairan (tombeau de Hiram, roi de Tyr.) 33. Ras el-Ain, environs de Tyr. 34. Sour (Tyr), vue generale. 35. Ruines de Tyr, (l'ancienne Cathedrale, partie S.E. de la ville.) 36. Ruines pres de Tyr, (au S. de la ville.) 37. Djisr-Kakaiyeh (pont sur le Leontes.) 38. Kalat-Tibnin (le chateau Toron des Croises.) 39. Ruines d'un temple a Belat (entre Tyr et Tibnin. 40. Kalat-Schemma. 41. Kalat-Karn. 42. Village de Mellia. 43. Kalat-Djedin (environs de Saint-Jean d'Acre.) 44. Akka (Ptolemais, Saint-Jean d'Acre.) 45. La ville de Khaifa, au pied du mont Carmel. 46. Athlit (Castellum Peregrinorum des Croises.) 47. Ain-Haud (village au pied du Carmel.) 48. La plaine de Jizrehel, vue de mont Carmel. 49. El-Mohraka (site du Sacrifice d'Elie.) 50. Ruines a Tantoura, (site de l'ancienne ville de Dor.) 51. Ruines de Cesaree. 52. Jenin (en-Ganim), tribu d'Issachar. 53. Sebustiyeh (Samarie.) 54. La vallee de Sichem. 55. Nablous (Sichem) et le mont Gerizim. 56. Yafa (Japho, Joppe), vue septentrionale. 57. Yafa (vue meridionale.) 58. Ruines a Ludd (Lydde.) 59. Jerusalem, et le mont des Oliviers. 60. Jerusalem, vue prise au N.E. de la ville. 61. Jerusalem, vue de mont des Oliviers. 62. Jerusalem, vue prise hors de la porte de Damas. 63. La vallee du Cedron. 64. La vallee du Cedron (Gethsemane), vue de nuit. 65. El-Azariyeh (Bethanie.) 66. Beit-Lahm (Beth-lehem.) 67. Les reservoirs de Salomon. 68. El-Khalil (Hebron.) 69. Le rocher de Masada et la mer Morte. 70. Le desert de Judee entre Masada et ez-Zuweirah. 71. Beit-Jebrin (Eleutheropolis.) 72. Ghuzzeh (Gaza.) 73. Le couvent de Mar-Saba. 74. Er-Riha, village pres du site de Jericho. 75. Kerawa, oasis dans la Ghor. 76. Le Jourdain, au passage de la route de Nablous a es-Salt. 77. Le Jourdain (passage entre Scythopolis et Pella.) 78. Beisan (Beth-San, Scythopolis.) 79. En-Nazirah (Nazareth.) 80. Le lac de Tiberiade. 81. El-Mejdel (Magdala), la de Tiberaide. 82. Le lac de Tiberaide vu du chateau de Safed. 83. La grotte de Banias. 84. Ravin du Nahr ez-Zaharany, au-dessous de Djurdjoua. 85. Djebea, village du Djebel-Rihan. 86. Chute du torrent de Djezzin. 87. El-Bekaa (la vallee de Coelesyrie.) 88. Esch-Scham (Damas.) 89. La riviere Barada (l'ancienne Abana), vue prise pres de Dummar. 90. Baalbec, vue meridionale. 91. Baalbec, cote oriental. 92. Kamoa el-Hermel (monument dans la plaine de Riblah.) 93. Kamoa el-Hermel (profils et details.) 94. Merj-Ahin (vallee alpestre du Liban septentrionale.) 95. Foret dans les hautes regions du Liban. 96. Les monts Hermon et Sunnin, vue de le crete oriental du Liban. 97. Les cidres du Liban. 98. Le torrent de Bscherreh. 99. Sources de l'Adonis a Afka (Apheca.) 100. [Map] Carte de la Palestine.

Onceinawhile (talk) 23:33, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks! Huldra (talk) 23:37, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok, done! (almost) ..those I don't know where is, are still in the "Category:Charles William Meredith van de Velde", the rest has been moved (and categorised) in Category:Van de Velde, 1857. If you have any idea as to where, say Kerawa or Hazour ou Hazireh is, please tell.

There were some gems, say the 1851 pictures of Mi'ilya or Ein Hod: well worth the job! cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:21, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I have put the missing ones here and will fill them in as I find them:

• 1. Title page. Wady Fasail, le Torrent de Kerith:

According to VdV,[6] a spring near the Jordan where Elijah was said to have rested and the crows nourished him; called Racka by the Arabs.

FOUND: East of Duma, Nablus, south of Ma'ale Efrayim and north of Fasayil. See File:Fasayil.png

• 31. Ruines de Hazour ou Hazireh.

FOUND: Immediately north of Ayta ash Shab.

(Zero adds: on 1977 map, "Hazzirya" 2km NE of Ayta ash Shab. On PEF sheet 4, Od, Kh. Hazireh)

From PEF:[7] "Hazzur (N d). — This is a rock-cut tomb with a masonry arch over the entrance; it is at the ruins of Kh. Hazireh. The masonry appears to be Roman from the cutting of the stones; at present the vault has fallen in and quite blocked up the entrance to the tomb ; the dimensions are given by Dr. Robinson ('Later Biblical Researches,' p. 63) before this accident. The arch is round; the stones rather large, but not bevelled, and the whole bears the marks of extreme antiquity. Beneath the vault the flat rock is cut away to form a sloping passage leading down to the sepulchre. This passage is four feet wide, twelve feet long, and at the lower end five and a half feet deep. Here is a low portal leading into an excavated chamber with a sarcophagus. The vault above is six feet broad by twelve long, and nine and one-third high. There is another sepulchre south-west of this similar to it, but having no vault over it. The following is Robinson's description of this place: 'The arch is round; the stones rather large, but not bevelled; the whole bears the marks of extreme antiquity. Beneath the vault the flat rock is cut away to form a sloping passage leading down to the sepulchre. This passage is 4 feet wide, 12 feet long, and at the lower end 5 1/2 feet deep. Here is a low portal leading into an excavated chamber with a sarcophagus. The vault above is 6 feet broad by 12 long and 9 1/2 high. There is another sepulchre south-west of this and similar to it, excavated in a flat rock, but having now no vault over it.' This vault was demolished the year before Renan went to Palestine. He suggests En Hazer as the ancient name of Hazzur." This name seems to have been eclipsed by Tel Hazor, albeit confusion remains - for example a number of commons photos of the Israeli Tel Hazor have been given camera coordinates which point to this place in Southern Lebanon e.g. File:TEL HATZOR AERIAL.JPG and File:מקדש מצבות כנעני.JPG

Kh. Hazireh PEF map 4 is on I, 239: "A few small columns and broken pieces" does not seem to describe it well, me thinks Huldra (talk) 22:51, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Guerin, 1880, 117, Huldra (talk) 22:57, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

• 36. Ruines pres de Tyr, (au S. de la ville.):

From the text: "Non loin de cet endroit , un peu plus vers le sud-est, ou voit une ruine curieuse dont nous joiguons ici le dessin (PI. XXXV). Ses murailles énormes semblent indiquer une place de défense ou un château fort, et l’un de ses arceaux, presque écroulé, semble révéler une origine qui remonterait aux croisades. Tout près de là se trouve un charmant jardin ombragé de tamaris, de figuiers et de mûriers, lieu délicieux de repos pour les voyageurs qui voudraient y dresser leur tente."

(Zero says: This is Tyre, Lebanon as shown on his image 191.)

(Onceinawhile says: agreed. I am trying to figure out exactly where in Tyre this is. I have asked here: User_talk:RomanDeckert#Two_places_in_Southern_Lebanon)

• 49. El-Mohraka (site du Sacrifice d'Elie.)

FOUND: Mount_Carmel#Carmelites_(12th_century_–_present)

• 75. Kerawa, oasis dans la Ghor.

TENTATIVE: I believe this is Al-Jiftlik (Zero says: In that vacinity, yes, but was it a village then? In the book image 191 he has "Archelais (Kerawa)". In his 1862 map, in the same place as much as is plain, he has two sites "el Basaliyeh (Archelais)" and SE from there "Kerawa". PEF and Mandate maps don't have a point locality but they show tracts of land called Kurawa el Masudy (PEF) and that one plus Qarawa al Fauwa (Mandate).)

• 94. Merj-Ahin (vallee alpestre du Liban septentrionale.)

FOUND BUT NOT ON WIKI: This is known as Marj Hine or Merchhin.[8]

VdV says in French: "Une seconde plaine, le Merj el-Ahmar, s’étend au S. du Merj-Ahin. C'est encore un plateau alpestre, plus grand, mais moins pittoresque que le précédent. Bientôt de nouveaux bouquets de pins et de cyprès d'une beauté ravissante (PI. XCV) nous amènent, par une montée non interrompue, au pied d’une immense chaine de montagnes nues et dépouillées, du sein desquelles s’élance un cône massif, tout éblouissant d une virginale blancheur." (Zero adds: I found it on his maps, after looking 100 or so times. On image 191, it is the most northerly place that is close to the border with Syria, inland from Tripoli. It's harder to find on the 1862 map but it's there, very close to the border. The "road going from Hermel to Donniyeh" in your link is here.)

I have asked at User_talk:Elias_Ziade#A_place_in_the_mountains

Onceinawhile (talk) 05:48, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

They are on the map in image 191, no? For example, Kerawa is Archelais and Tyr is Sour (Lebanon). Zero^talk 07:59, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, agreed, but that map is not detailed enough to locate the specific locations. 1858_van_de_Velde_maps_of_Palestine_and_Jerusalem#Regional_Maps is much better. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:05, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

That is excellent! A few I suspected (like the Mount Carmel one) some of the other (eg Ayta ash Shab) were completely unknown to me. Incidentally, Victor Guérin (who I believe visited Hazour ou Hazireh); his books at archive have been completely mixed around :( That means my User:Huldra/Guerin is pretty useless/needs to be updated :( not only that, but each and every Guérin-link on en.wp needs to be updated :( I hope this is just a "glitch" and that they will return the old links....

Happy news! The Guérin-links are now "back to normal"! Huldra (talk) 22:32, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

While we are at it, there were a few others I wondered about, if you could check I would be grateful:

• 03.En Neby Yunas: I cannot find any sign of this at present, but on van der Velde's map there is such a place just south of Damour; hence I have put it in the Chouf District

FOUND See Jieh#Religion. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

• 14.Le mont Hermon, vue prise de Thelthatha ...is Nebi Safa(?)

Yes, oddly it is in the Jerusalem volume of SWP, p491. "A few feet above the village is the site of the temple, whence can be seen a great portion of the Hermon range." Zero^talk 00:27, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Nice find! There are notes on several other of the Lebanese village temples there, too, Huldra (talk) 20:33, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

• 15.Site pres de Schuweiya (environs de Hasbeiya). I think this belongs close to a village not yet made on en.wp (but exist on ar.wp) (And was mentioned by Robinson in 1838, p. 138)

I agree. It is definitely ar:شويا_(حاصبيا). On google maps it is spelt Chouya. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:13, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Ruins of Belat in the PEF Survey

• 38.Ruines d'un temple a Belat (entre Tyr et Tibnin) The only place I found matching that discription is just by Marwahin ..I do not think it is the same as 24. "Belat", which I believe to be just be by Blat, Marjayoun?

Yes definitely. 38 is equidistant between Marwahin and Ramyah. And I agree 24 is definitely Blat, Marjayoun. I realized that VdV's route is shown on File:VanDeVeldeMap3.jpg marked in red, so we can be 100% certain. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:29, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

This one is a great find. There is another excellent picture in PEF here. The PEF also gives detail from Robinson, Guerin and Renan. Renan calls it "the most striking ruin in the whole country".in French here Onceinawhile (talk) 07:44, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

It is at coordinates 33.114823°N 35.290613°E / 33.114823; 35.290613. Best on Bing maps satellite. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:07, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

This one screams for its own article, me thinks... Huldra (talk) 20:34, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

@Davidbena: I think you have been the first to write about this place in your edit here at Beth-Anath. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:49, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

• 85.Djebea, village du Djebel Rihan. ..I can find it in "Djebel Rihan"; I think it is Jbaa? "Jebeah" is just north of Arabsalim on this map, which fits.

Yes this is definitely correct (you can see the consistent spelling at File:VdV1857 0191.jpg. Just north of Ain Qana. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:23, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Russian Bank

On 13 October 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Russian Bank, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Russian Bank, also known as Crapette or Tunj, has been called "probably the best game for two players ever invented"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Russian Bank. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Russian Bank), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:01, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions

Hello! Your submission of Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 20:00, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Missing cite in Stelae of Nahr el-Kalb

The article cites "Wilson 1881" but no such source is listed in bibliography. Can you please add? Also, suggest installing a script to highlight such errors in the future. All you need to do is copy and paste importScript('User:Svick/HarvErrors.js'); // Backlink: [[User:Svick/HarvErrors.js]] to your common.js page. Thanks, Renata (talk) 01:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi Renata3, thank you. I have fixed this. Onceinawhile (talk) 06:52, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

"Joke"

My edit was not a "joke". Trump has been nominated multiple times for the Nobel Peace Prize. [9] (I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:03, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Emir of Wikipedia, these people are far right populists for minor parties (see Finns Party and Forum for Democracy). These are not serious nominations. His actions are not creating "peace" in the Middle East; that requires addressing the underlying issues. And he is inflaming tensions with China, which is a dangerously slippery slope and the greatest single threat to world peace. Onceinawhile (talk) 16:16, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Balfour

I don't mind the revert, but I didn't see any consensus for this article to be exempt from MOS:LEAD. Can you point me at it explicitly? Cheers. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 12:58, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi The Rambling Man, I can't remember where in the discussion this was covered (it was three years ago after all), but this article went through two GA reviews, two peer reviews and two FA reviews and this is how it ended up. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:22, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I guess compliance with MOS was overlooked at FAC then. No worries, it's not a big problem, but FAs should comply with MOS. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 14:33, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Kingsindian mentioned it but suggested that the MOS does not constitute an absolute prohibition and it was let go.Selfstudier (talk) 14:58, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

No, indeed WP:MOS is a guideline, but I haven't seen any reason for this article to exempt from its compliance. Nevertheless it's of little interest. I will be keeping an eye on it in future should further transgressions appear of course. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 23:53, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions

On 1 November 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that almost half the known words in Phoenician inscriptions (example pictured) have never been found again? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:01, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Precious

Three years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:05, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Aramaic

Hi Onceinawhile! FYI, the answer on ANI[10] is not really satisfactory ("content dispute"). If have asked for page protection now.[11] –Austronesier (talk) 09:17, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Austronesier, thank you. Agree there is no content dispute – the IP was just adding nonsense. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:35, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Greetings to you 🙂 Mr.Karmi (talk) 23:44, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Al-Dalhamiyya

Hi, Just a note that the PEF-section map in Al-Dalhamiyya isn't particularly useful? Cheers, Huldra (talk) 20:59, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Huldra, thank you - I have fixed it. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:01, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Ummmh, yeah, but if you had a section taken further west on Map 9, that would could be useful? Huldra (talk) 21:06, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: interesting. See Talk:Al-Dalhamiyya. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:33, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Also, Khirbat al-Muntar, on SWP map 4 Kh. el Muntar is just east of the present SWP-map in the article? Huldra (talk) 23:28, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Carpentras Stele

On 7 November 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Carpentras Stele, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Carpentras Stele, the first ancient Semitic inscription ever published, was originally thought to be Phoenician but is actually ancient Aramaic? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Carpentras Stele), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—valereee (talk) 12:02, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of West Bank bantustans for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article West Bank bantustans is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/West Bank bantustans until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Jr8825 • Talk 17:58, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Memories :) Selfstudier (talk) 14:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Bantustans

I would say that it is by no means clear that the deleters have cleared the bar for deletion, they would need a rough consensus and since there are quite a few keepers, it seems to me the likely outcome is no con/do a rename. You never know what a closer will do of course but a straight vote count seems not the right thing here, those alleging a fork have made a very poor case and it is notable that many of the "outside" voters are keepers. If it is deleted, so be it, then at least we know what we are dealing with. It's your article so I'm not going to criticize your tactics but personally I would not discuss a rename before a decision. I would rather know if Wikipedia is willing to delete an article like this based on that discussion.Selfstudier (talk) 00:03, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Selfstudier, thanks for your message. I look at it like this. So far there have been at least four delete voters who have approximately 500-1000 edits, were created or reactivated reasonably recently, and have edit histories of which the majority were semi-automated edits. My guess is that more of these accounts will turn up, which is great as they can be taken to SPI when the time is right. But not in enough time to have a fair vote here, so I have accepted that the outcome will be unfairly skewed and there is nothing that can be done.

As to the article, I don't mind having two articles frankly, or maybe three (one on the process of "encystation" of whatever we want to call it). I do think the current article name is the common name, but a good alternative is to have it as a disambiguation page for each of the related concepts. One thing I do feel strongly about is that this issue is right at the heart of the IP conflict and deserves to be properly elucidated.

Onceinawhile (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

You'll get no argument from me on that last part.Selfstudier (talk) 00:20, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

If they do delete it (and the delete process is contaminated by 4 obvious socks there), aside from the canvassing, make sure you have a back up copy day by day so that if that occurs, you can place it in the fragmentation section of the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank. I cut that back only because of the usual numbers game commanded by the permabanned chap, but it would have been better to WP:IAR. Over 14 years I have noted very frequently that the POV crowd (a) is totally unfamiliar with the topic literature (b) screws articles by pushing to break them down and disperse them (bantustanization of the theme) on the hunch that passing readers don't click through to see the sister articles. In any case, well done. It was overdue, and I for one will see what I can do to expand it further. There's a huge mass of material out there.

One further point. The Bantustan analogy is not analytically correct except in the sole sense of dismembering by geophysical dislocation a Palestinian community, not by creating several statelets. The essential point, made decades ago, was to get Palestinians to police themselves and administer their poverty in whatever patches were left to them, without Israeli aid. South Africa basically financed its bantustans, whereas in thed West Bank and Gaza international communities are expected to pick up the tab etc. Nishidani (talk) 21:20, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes this is the point our deleting friends are not getting, deliberately or otherwise they are painting the word solely in a SA context and thence to Apartheid, which as you say is inaccurate. Our usage is different, the word is imagery and not at all intended to be the SA version and does not of itself imply Apartheid. Still, we will need to rename at the end to get away from this misconception.Selfstudier (talk) 15:08, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Nishidani, just reading your post above, I come back to a comment I made on the AFD page – an analogy with the term “pogrom”. Every event labelled pogrom has a number of differences with the events in 19th century Russia – there is no such thing as an analytically exact pogrom. The same is true for the widened use of the term bantustan – the core of it is about noncontiguous enclaves ultimately controlled by its surrounding parent country, allowing the latter to maintain control without representation. Who does the financing doesn’t change the core at all, particularly here given the financing arrangements are there because of a 50 year legacy. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:29, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

This says "Guided by the Allon Plan (1967), the Sharon Plan (1977) and a plan by the World Zionist Organization (1978)". Any idea what that last one was?Selfstudier (talk) 13:07, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Selfstudier, could it be the Yinon Plan? Onceinawhile (talk) 14:05, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Drobles plan apparently, no page for it, this fellow.Selfstudier (talk) 16:05, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Well, what do you think about a rename, any ideas, or you prefer to wait for someone else to suggest/do it? If you want to keep Bantustan I prefer Bantustanization since we are describing a process as well as a condition.Selfstudier (talk)

Hi @Selfstudier: I am open minded. We could open a discussion to get some ideas? I am happy to go with consensus. My views are: I prefer the title to focus on the place rather than the process (all geographical places have history sections), I prefer shorter vs longer, and I would like to find the commonname. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't see the need for a rename. To the contrary since it is thoroughly documented that, also in the context of the intense ties between the two states when South Africa was a boycotted (BDS) pariah nation, Israeli politicians, upper echelon IDF people, and policy makers constantly had the SA practice in mind as they elaborated and deepened their 'Separation' policies, it is the only valid name for the page. Self is correct that the more accurate term, resolving these doubts, lies in a renaming as 'Bantustanization', a point I would also have made had not so much time been wasted trying to save an obviously pertinent article addition to wikipedia). Even Chomnsky has no problems with the SA analogy with bantustans. He gave a talk late in 2000 or thereabouts in Israel in which a lengthy descriptive passage was read out from a standard source regarding Bantustans. His audience, he states, many liberal Israelis, silently sat through it, no one leaping to their feet to challenge the tacit analogy. I.e. overall the analogy is compelling, despite differences (all analogies accept that differences exist in details) It can be found on, from memory, p.198 of the book I introduced to the sources for the page, and if anyone wishes to carry it into a note, they can find it there). Whatever, there's still a lot of work to be done enlarging the content and adding sources (I hope now that some leisure is available for serious work that we all reread what we have to tweak etc) and until it gets closer to GA criteria, it is best to put name proposals on the back burner, even if a change to Bantustanization of the West Bank shouldn't be problematical even at this stage.Nishidani (talk) 14:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Also to reply to Oncenawhile earlier: I am interested in the development of concepts, and that is why emphasized this aspect, though of course, there is much else. We are dealing with an article that treats an historical process, hence Bantustanization is almost mandatory. The ramifications of enactment are naturally also crucial to the article's thrust. No problem otherwise.Nishidani (talk) 14:53, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not sure which editor you mean

Let me know and I'll take a look tomorrow. Doug Weller talk 20:06, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Doug Weller: thanks for dropping by. I mean this edit. There was a subsequent mini-dispute on the page over whether this editor should be allowed to participate. I think it comes down to the old letter and spirit of the law question. Either way, it has opened my eyes to a running theme of new accounts using a large number semi-automated edits to reach the 500 ECP mark. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:14, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Pretty obvious. Let me know if you spot others, meanwhile I'm mulling over what to do about it. Doug Weller talk 13:16, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

reply-link

Hi, I saw two recent edits of yours with edit summary "Replying to Selfstudier" that were actually replies to other people. I don't know how reply-link works; was that your slips or is there a bug that needs reporting? Zero^talk 12:04, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Zero0000, thanks for pointing this out. I hadn't realized. It happens when I am commenting on a comment but someone else (in this case, Self) has commented in between. So I click on reply link at the bottom, then change the name in the comment itself. I didn't realize the edit comment still has the name of the editor immediately above in it. It is a very convenient tool by the way - saves a few seconds each time. Details are at User:Enterprisey/reply-link. Onceinawhile (talk) 12:09, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of West Bank bantustans

Hello! Your submission of West Bank bantustans at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! As a minor note, one quote includes the text "the o≤cial Oslo II map", which I assume is a typo for "official"? CMD (talk) 17:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message

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A goat for you!

I just came to Wikipedia to look up something and thought to check up on WP friend, who had a link to the bantustan's deletion, and so I'm drawn in. Not retired, yet, and have no Basic Income so not going to be drawn back into WP editing. Good luck.

Alatari (talk) 13:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi Alatari, an edit a day keeps boredom away (and helps to build the world's best open source knowledge sharing project)... Good luck to you too. Onceinawhile (talk) 14:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

:)

Oncewhile, haha

December 2020

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in the Arab–Israeli conflict. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Template:Z33 11Fox11 (talk) 02:42, 4 December 2020 (UTC)