Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.

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Template:Spaced en dash

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T152639

I've noticed that JerrieAtrix has been manually substing {{Spaced en dash}} because, according to them, it breaks navigation popups. I have popups enabled and have not noticed anything amiss with them on pages where the template is transcluded. But if there is an issue with it, it should presumably be fixed in the template itself or in MediaWiki, instead of being manually substituted. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 22:56, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

The Navigation Popups feature suppresses display of all templates, including {{Infobox}}, {{Convert}}, {{snd}}, {{Spaced en dash}}, etc., resulting in run-together text and loss of meaning when inline templates are used. That's just the way it is; there is nothing to "fix" in MediaWiki. Editors should simply learn not to put inline templates in the lede. Besides, the use of HTML  – uses the same or fewer number of characters as some of the silly templates being employed and the symbols are readily available from the Wiki markup menu below the editing window, both for logged-in and IP editors. In my opinion, templates such as {{snd}}, {{Spaced en dash}} and other variants on en dashes and em dashes should be deprecated in this Wiki and eventually deleted by a 'bot. They're training wheels for tots and are unneccessary. — JerrieAtrix (talk) 23:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Well, {{Spaced en dash}} is transcluded 47,704 times, so if there's a problem with it there should be some centralized solution, whatever it ends up being. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 23:33, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Punctuating a sentence (em or en dashes) suggest using {{Spaced en dash}} (via redirects {{spaced ndash}} or {{snd}}). Nearly all readers are unregistered. They see mw:Page Previews which does render templates. Registered users can enable Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets but it's disabled by default. We shouldn't edit pages based on how they appear in an optin gadget. I use popups myself but missing a dash in a popup is minor. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:01, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

JerrieAtrix, as a rule we do not change wikitext because a gadget does not function as expected. If the specific gadget can't (or won't) handle it, that is something to be changed for the specific gadget. (Clearly this is a poorly thought out design decision on the pop ups part.) Please stop. --Izno (talk) 00:55, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

It's probably more a case of template rendering being hard to implement properly than "a poorly thought out design decision". PrimeHunter (talk) 01:30, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Gadgets shouldn't try to reimplement rendering probably. ;) --Izno (talk) 02:41, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Izno, the gadget predates the render options. It's 2003-2004 code. :D —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:44, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I would never dare to presume that gadgets should be maintained. ;) --Izno (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

The popupPreviewKillTemplates option can alter how popups handles templates. There's no option for "expand and process as usual", but there is an option other than "omit altogether". DMacks (talk) 17:21, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

If you are interested in gnoming to fix some popups render bugs without altering documented standards, consider converting [[''foo'']] to ''[[foo]]''. The former causes display of raw HTML tags. DMacks (talk) 17:23, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Template:Category tree

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T270360

Unable to click on the little triangle to exapand the tree. Tried purging the page, Safari and Firefox browsers, logged in and not logged in. No apparent recent breaking edits to the template itself. Others having the same issue, or just me? UnitedStatesian (talk) 16:24, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

• Same here. Oddly, they do work when previewing an edit:

  York

  I suspect that another gadget was just updated — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 16:58, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

• The CategoryTreeToggleHandlerAttached class on the triangle is missing when viewing — present when editing — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 17:09, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
• Categorytree was updated on 12 December. Bug logged on 17 December – T270360. Was yesterday a real Thursday? — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 17:40, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

  Last Thursday deployment of 2020 happened on December 17th. Majavah (talk!) 17:56, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

  Ah. So we just didn't notice very quickly... — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 18:11, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

• Dirty, short term fix if anybody really wants it. Just add mw.loader.using( 'ext.categoryTree', function () {} ); to your common.js – the triangle is not correctly styled, but then does work — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 18:11, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Category tree don't work

I was experimenting with the category tree function of Wikipedia. However, it looks like it does not work anymore. --Soumya-8974 (he) ^talk _contribs ^subpages 08:05, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Soumya-8974: I moved your post to the existing section. There is ongoing work to fix it. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:14, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

bug in chrome causes "math" tag to display incorrectly.

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T269222

hi all.

it was reported and verified (in hewiki) that google chrome can display mathematical formulas incorrectly. for instance, this formula appears in Gravitational constant: $P^{2}={\frac {3\pi }{G}}{\frac {V}{M}}\approx 10.896\ \mathrm {h^{2}{\cdot }g{\cdot }cm^{-3}} {\frac {V}{M}}.$.

Repoduction

• view this formula using Google Chrome version 87.0.4280.88 (current version), on windows
• change the "zoom level" of the browser, using CTRL -, or mouse wheel
• note that at certain zoom levels (smaller than 100%), the minus sign of the last power (-3), disappears.

this behavior seems almost arbitrary: e.g., on my windoze rig, it disappears at 90% and reappears at 80%, only to disappear again at 75.

this turns out to be a bug in the way chrome renders SVG images. i reported it in chrome, using this image, generated by a formula on hewiki, but i doubt a single report is enough to prioritize a fix, so if you successfully verify/reproduce, i encourage you to create your own report (in chrome: hamburger => help => report an issue), preferably using a different image (once you reproduce with some formula, open the image in a new tab, verify the bug again, and create the report from there).

afaik, chrome is the most common desktop browser, so this affects many readers. a possible temporary remedy is to change the default for math display to "png" (logged-in users can set it in their preferences). since the early days of wikipedia, we habitually "pervert" things to accommodate for specific browsers' bugs, often by adding attributes to specific CSS classes (we prolly do this in hewiki more than it's done here, often to circumvent RTL specific bugs). peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 19:50, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

This is phab:T269222: "Minus signs not displaying in Math formulas (on certain zoom levels in Chrome browsers)". PrimeHunter (talk) 20:28, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

@קיפודנחש: Please consider adding your upstream Chrome task to the Phab task (where I see you've commented). --Izno (talk) 00:33, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@Izno: sorry, i did not understand. my phabricator "contribution" is limited to opening bug reports and commenting. what would you like me to do? iow, what do you mean exactly by "adding your upstream Chrome task"? i am not aware of such task. on hewiki, i suggested to our "technical chief", (in absence of better "job description") to "make it happen", specifically for hewiki. i think there's some phab standard way for such requests for individual projects. if the community thinks it's an acceptable workaround, i'm pretty sure there are people here who know which knobs to push and pull to make PNG the default on enwiki. personally, i think wikimedia should change the default globally, until those buggy browsers are flushed out, but "global config" is way above my pay grade. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 01:41, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@קיפודנחש: Ah, I misunderstood what you meant then when you said you had reported the issue to Google. I thought you had filed a task on the Chrome bug tracker. --Izno (talk) 02:24, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

ah! no, you understood, it's i who didn't understand. however, i did not do it the "professional way", i simply clicked hamburger => help => report bug. i did so from a the svg image directly ("open image in a new tab"), so it was a "shoot and forget" affair. i don't have any "receipt". it may be possible to find it in their bug tracker - i didn't try, and i doubt i will. peace- קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 04:24, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I have noticed similar issues in the Containing both π and e section of the mathematical coincidence article.

• Looking at the fifth entry, "<math>\exp\left( \left(\frac{\pi}{2}\right)^{\frac{\pi-e}{\sqrt{2}}}\right) \approx \pi</math>, within 0.000 02%"

appearing (for viewers here) as $\exp \left(\left({\frac {\pi }{2}}\right)^{\frac {\pi -e}{\sqrt {2}}}\right)\approx \pi$, within 0.000 02%

has (for me) the minus sign missing between the π and the e in the fraction for the exponent.

• Looking at the tenth entry, "<math display="inline"> e^{-\frac{\pi}{9}} + e^{-4\frac{\pi}{9}} + e^{-9\frac{\pi}{9}} + e^{-16\frac{\pi}{9}} + e^{-25\frac{\pi}{9}} + e^{-36\frac{\pi}{9}} + e^{-49\frac{\pi}{9}} + e^{-64\frac{\pi}{9}} = 1.00000000000105... \approx 1</math>. In fact, this generalizes to the approximate identity:<math> \sum_{k=0}^{n-1}{e^{-\frac{k^2\pi}{n}}}\approx\frac{-1+\sqrt{n}}{2}</math>"

appearing (for viewers here) as ${\textstyle e^{-{\frac {\pi }{9}}}+e^{-4{\frac {\pi }{9}}}+e^{-9{\frac {\pi }{9}}}+e^{-16{\frac {\pi }{9}}}+e^{-25{\frac {\pi }{9}}}+e^{-36{\frac {\pi }{9}}}+e^{-49{\frac {\pi }{9}}}+e^{-64{\frac {\pi }{9}}}=1.00000000000105...\approx 1}$. In fact, this generalizes to the approximate identity:$\sum _{k=0}^{n-1}{e^{-{\frac {k^{2}\pi }{n}}}}\approx {\frac {-1+{\sqrt {n}}}{2}}$

has the minus signs in front of all the fractions exponents appearing, but not the minus sign in the exponent of the sum. When I use "show preview" in the edit mode, all the minus signs in the exponents disappear from the series as well. I tried to change fractions like $-49{\frac {\pi }{9}}$ (which look strangely like improper fractions to me) to be $-{\frac {49\pi }{9}}$ or ${\frac {-49\pi }{9}}$, which would also match the format of the sigma notation summation, but in either case all the minuses also disappear.

I looked at the phab:T269222 link that PrimeHunter noted but it appears to have concluded that this is not a WP problem. If the problem can't be fixed locally, should it be flagged in some way for editors who notice a problem but then can't figure out why it is happening? I know I have run into this before and each time given up in confusion or frustration. EdChem (talk) 03:00, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Correction: Having posted this note, I find that the minus signs do not appear for me in the series terms in the second example above on this page, but they do appear for me in the same series on the mathematical coincidence#Containing both π and e. The only difference that I see is that, at the article page, the entry is preceded by a bullet point that is not included in my post above. If it helps, I am using Google Chrome "Version 87.0.4280.88 (Official Build) (64-bit)". EdChem (talk) 03:04, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but I cannot reproduce this bug. Regardless of zoom level minuses are always present. Have you tried to disable hardware acceleration? Ruslik_Zero 14:09, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

If you want the corresponding Chromium bug its [1]. I think it will be fixed soon. --Salix alba (talk): 07:46, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

How to prevent constant pulling (GET requests) of the Watchlist?

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T271053

I implemented a way to get a working watchlist that does not require you to waste lots of time. I found that when you have the watchlist open in a tab it sends a GET request every second or so - it's continually pulling even if "Live updates" is disabled. This is also how it displays the "View new changes since..." note at the top when things have changed.

I don't need or want this constant pulling and it doesn't work with my method to get a working watchlist, which is why I'd like to disable this. It only drains my computer/network's and MediaWiki servers' resources and has no advantage at a minimum in my case. However, I couldn't find any setting to disable it in the preferences.

You can check it like this:

• Open your Watchlist
• Press F12 in Firefox
• Go to the Network tab in that new window
• There should be a new GET request every 2 seconds or so

Is there a way to disable this?

--Prototyperspective (talk) 16:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@Prototyperspective: in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist try selecting "use non-JavaScript interface". That will bring back the much less bloated watchlist. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:07, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Xaosflux, I'd like to use the JavaScript interface though as it's more up-to-date and modern and I'm not sure if one could configure the same filtered display with the non-JavaScript version.

Furthermore, I don't consider it "bloated" - the problem is that features useless or less important for imo most users have been added while important features have been not been added / ignored. Prototyperspective (talk) 22:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@Prototyperspective: OK, you could request a "refresh" toggle be added by filing a feature request. — xaosflux ^Talk 22:24, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Xaosflux, Done. Prototyperspective (talk) 23:54, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@Prototyperspective: I loaded a vanilla account to see the behavior, it appears there is a large toggle for "Live Updates" - but that doesn't actually stop the updates from happening, I've updated the phab ticket to reflect that. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:10, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

The Live Update button is not intended to stop the polling – it changes the behaviour when the polling detects a change. Without Live Update, the polling stops – inviting the user to update the history display. With Live Update, the display update is done automatically and the polling continues. The phab ticket probably needs to change and instead ask for the on/off button to be changed to a 3-way option: do not poll (but allow a manual refresh of the history display without a full page reload), poll and stop, full live update. — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 09:19, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

IP blocking even when signed in?

Hello. I just have a question regarding the IP blocking system on Wikipedia. I'm not an active user here. Something I noticed in the past was that when I'm at my university or when I use a VPN, I couldn't edit Wikipedia without signing in. You also couldn't make a Wiki account with these IPs. This makes sense.

But now, I see that I can no longer edit Wikipedia unless I'm at home and not using a VPN, even if I sign in. When did this change take effect and why? In fact, I also couldn't type this without being at home. Amir Abdullah (talk) 01:22, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@YemeniFriend: There are two types of IP blocks. A softblock will allow logged in users from the IP, but a hard block will prevent logged in users also from that IP range. It is not new. See WP:HARDBLOCK. RudolfRed (talk) 01:50, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Indeed. In earlier times, hard blocks were the only option. Graham87 04:25, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

We have 210 indef hardblocks from before 2020. Most are proxies, but would it be sensible to review the others? Some appear malformed, having a user id of 0 but a (sometimes abusive) username instead of an IP address. Certes (talk) 13:00, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Is there anyway to request the change of some IPs from a hardblock to a softblock? What determines whether an IP gets a hardblock or softblock? Amir Abdullah (talk) 23:47, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@YemeniFriend: yes, just use an unblock request on your talk page, you can also use Wikipedia:Unblock Ticket Request System to request review to avoid associating your ip/username on-wiki. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:49, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

problem in Battle of Yarmouk article

A message in the front of the article is showing Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module 'Module:Location map/data/State of Palestine' not found. and by clicking the message it is showing: Lua error in package.lua at line 80: module 'Module:Location map/data/State of Palestine' not found. Backtrace: [C]: in function "error" package.lua:80: in function "load" package.lua:99: ? (tail call): ? package.lua:103: ? (tail call): ? mw.lua:487: in function "executeModule" mw.lua:757: in function "loadData" Module:Location_map:20: in function "getMapParams" Module:Location_map:510: in function "main" Module:Infobox_military_conflict:213: in function "render" Module:Infobox_military_conflict:262: in function "chunk" mw.lua:518: ? [C]: ?. How can it be resolved? 103.67.156.0 (talk) 05:12, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Fixed by [2]. I don't know whether other changes are needed to fix other pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:09, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Get pages and their redirects from the database

Resolved – I ran the queries back to back on the database machine and the performance hit was minimal, in the dozens of milliseconds. Closed, not relevant. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 02:04, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Good morning. I am attempting to write a single prepared statement to retrieve all pages and their redirects which are in a category.

Here is my first query which returns in ~.33 seconds.

Here is a second query which takes from the first result and returns in ~.10 seconds.

Here is a third query where I try to combine the two but which hangs indefinitely.

Can someone familiar with MySQL help me out? I tried to run EXPLAIN but I do not have rights.[3]

Helpful links: mw:Manual:categorylinks table, mw:Manual:page table, mw:Manual:redirect table

PS. I am a MySQL novice so don't assume I know anything Magog the Ogre (t • c) 15:55, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

You can get EXPLAIN results using https://sql-optimizer.toolforge.org/. I'm not sure why that query isn't working well, but the Commons replicas are having performance problems at the moment that mean indexes don't work as well as they should. That likely has something to do with it. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 16:26, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

You can also try WP:RAQ. --Izno (talk) 23:25, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Sometimes Quarry just declines to update. Submit the query again and it's usually fine. A query that times out on the database side looks like this. —Cryptic 23:34, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Request to edit crontab to update Special:WantedTemplates more often

According to this thread, it appears that we need some sort of super-administrator to update a crontab so that Special:WantedTemplates is updated more often. Unfortunately, I don't know what sort of user right is required, or where that crontab lives. Any clues would be appreciated. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:43, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

"crontab"s are server-side scripts/organizational tools. When administrator is used in context, that means "system administrator" i.e. your request must be to Phabricator. --Izno (talk) 23:26, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

This could probably be recreated as a database report. If there aren't any other takers I'll try to do this next week. -FASTILY 23:43, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

The original query is at phab:source/mediawiki/browse/master/includes/specials/SpecialWantedTemplates.php.--Snaevar (talk) 00:01, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Fastily, if you do recreate it as a database report, would it be possible to exclude .js pages? That would help cut down on the noise in the report. Thanks! Also, it might be worth corresponding with Plastikspork, who translates the current special page into User:Plastikspork/Transclusions of deleted templates/1. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:32, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Certainly, I'll look into doing that as well. -FASTILY 00:37, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

no results after "next 500" in suggested word search

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T271103

entering a misspelled or non existent word such as "dakdm" in Wikipedia search box produces results for an alternate suggested word, with the following message :

"Results 1 – 20 of 21,635"

"Showing results for daddy. No results found for dakdm."

clicking on "next 20"

or "500" then "next 500"

produces :

"There were no results matching the query."

it is not showing the extended results for the alternative word initially displayed, in this instance "daddy".

is this an intended feature, or should it be reported as bug ? Gfigs (talk) 06:26, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

If that is intended it's stupid. Going to the next page shouldn't change the search, and adding a link that leads nowhere isn't going to help. It might be the result of independent intentional decisions, but in the combination it's a bug. --mfb (talk) 08:09, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

thanks..here is bug report : T271103.. (i did not receive a notification that my comment was reverted. am editing this comment for second time, as it was changed by someone else). Gfigs (talk) 13:51, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Gfigs, Hmmm, I can see how this could be somewhat unexpected, but I don't know I'd go so far as to call it a bug. I would expect that the continuation link ("next 20") would be disabled in this case, however.

In the "Showing results for daddy. No results found for dakdm." message, "daddy" is a link to the alternate search. When I get one of those, I generally click that link and continue from there, so it's not a big deal. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:23, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

ah, ok.. Gfigs (talk) 14:35, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Problem in Template:Cite Quran

See the problem happened below with the template: "Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory)."^{[Quran 2:255 (Translated by Yusuf Ali)]} 116.58.200.228 (talk) 11:32, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

There are some extra characters after the 255. The following seems to work:

{{Cite Quran|2|255| translator=    y
 | quote=         Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
}}

"Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory)."^{[Quran 2:255 (Translated by Yusuf Ali)]}

Is that correct? —  Jts1882 | talk  12:00, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

According to Help:Template:

The template {{Strip whitespace}} can be used to strip any initial or final whitespace from unnamed parameter values if this would cause problems; named parameter values are automatically stripped in this way.

Based on this, there are 2 solutions: either edit {{Cite Quran}} to wrap {{{2}}} with a {{Strip whitespace}} template, or use it here with no whitespace. 93.172.18.207 (talk) 15:00, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Editing from different devices

I usually edit Wikipedia from my mobile and laptop but since I became a bit more active on Wikipedia from last year, I sometimes edit from anywhere if needs be. Like I may be editing from a friend's device or university's library. Similarly I sometimes edit using different networks, from a shared hotspot, university's wifi etc. I do it all while logged in but still I'm skeptical as to it sometimes that is it all oky for my account and edits? I actually don't understand much about how IPs work here. I even get confused sometimes when I'm not logged in and see that there's a new message on talk that comes out to be of the IP and when I see in contributions, there are edits which I never done so I assume that IPs might be changing continuosly. Can somebody makes me understand all this? Thanks! USaamo ^(t@lk) 11:56, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't care from which IP you edit, if you do so while logged in everything is linked to your account. How IPs are given out depends on the internet service provider (and potentially the local network you are working in). Some of them reuse IPs frequently. That can be a bit confusing in Wikipedia. If you log in then everything is tied to your account and the IP does not matter. --mfb (talk) 15:01, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@Mfb: Thanks for clarification. :) USaamo ^(t@lk) 08:23, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I decided to copy-paste the entirety of RedWarn to another page (User:JJPMaster/RWS.js) and...

it somehow didn't work, even when I uninstalled the proper RedWarn thing. I don't know where else to ask this question, so I came here. JJP...MASTER!_{[talk to] JJP... master?} 20:46, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@JJPMaster, this edit broke your install, you should just be able to go back to the first version of the page and it should work fine, or copy straight from our GitLab at https://redwarn.gitlab.io/redwarn-web/redwarn.js ✨ Ed talk! ✨ 20:50, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@JJPMaster, and you need to remove RedWarn globally at meta:User:JJPMaster/global.js ✨ Ed talk! ✨ 21:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

What CSS has Wikipedia applied to it infoboxes?

ON MOBILE What CSS has Wikipedia applied to it infoboxes to make text smaller, better space-out and with watermark kind of lines that clearly separate each items?

It's now different than 6month ago.

Is there a way to add a screenshot shot to demonstrate this?

I don't see anything that would do that in 'MediaWiki:Mobile.css' nor 'MediaWiki:Common.css'.
Goodman Andrew (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:57, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Goodman Andrew, we have very little control over how the mobile site is currently styled. You can go to the mobile site from desktop at https://en.m.wikipedia.org and review for yourself using a standard web style inspector; append ?debug=true to help identify the specific source (because ResourceLoader concatenates a lot of CSS together otherwise and you can't tell what the true source is). --Izno (talk) 16:53, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Goodman Andrew: Please keep the discussion at Wikipedia:Help desk#What CSS has Wikipedia applied to it infoboxes? where you also posted. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:10, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Cropping of Infobox text in pdf files - followup

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T271288

text cropping in pdf file near right margin

this is follow-up to Teahouse post of Nov 2020 : Cropping of text in pdf files

am finding, cropping of infobox texts in many article pdf files (mostly Paper Sizes A0-A3).

as this example Anne, Princess Royal. Paper Size : ISO A1

browser is Chrome (mobile) 84.0.4147.89 (to be updated)

have logged this as bug task. (see here also) Gfigs (talk) 16:36, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

task is Closed (Invalid). Aklapper advised that this is a display problem with the Infobox Template (see here). apparently, this has to be fixed by the English Wiki community. going to leave a message on the Template talk:Infobox for those working on this..Gfigs (talk) 09:59, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

@Gfigs: It's customary not to amend a previous message. Please consider making a new comment each time you want to update. --Izno (talk) 20:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

ok, thanks.. Gfigs (talk) 21:34, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Partial blocks don't survive deletion

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T199918

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T271253

Thanks to an experiment by ToBeFree, it seems that when a user is partially blocked from a page and that page is subsequently deleted, the block is no longer effective. As soon as the page is deleted, the partially-blocked user can immediately recreate the page under the same title and edit freely. Is this a known issue and/or is it intentional? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Ivanvector: "Create page" partial blocks are not currently supported, see phab:T199918 for the feature request. — xaosflux ^Talk 20:30, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Created phab:T271253, noted the situation at WP:PB. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:39, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

The action of deleting a page resets all protections relating to that page right back to unprotected; this is long-standing behaviour. So if a page that is deleted is not explicitly create-protected straight away, any edit protections formerly relating to that page will not be effective even if the page is recreated.

It should be noted that any given page name has several types of protection (create, edit, move, upload), which all default to unprotected but may be set independently to any other level (unprotected, semi, extended-confirmed, template-editors, full); for example, edit protection and move protection are both commonly seen on the same page but need not be set to the same level - a page might be semi-protected for editing but fully-protected for moves. Similarly, edit-protection is independent of create-protection. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:01, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

The thing is, the block is still displayed; it just applies to a nonexisting article ID. My proposal is to make the situation visible by removing the block. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:05, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Revid of a GA or FA

Anyone know how to get the revision ID that marks when an article was certified as good or featured? For example, the article chess is a featured article. Is there an automated way to get the revid of the article at its last FA review? Sam at Megaputer (talk) 22:24, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Usually, this is linked from the {{article history}} box that is found on the article's talk page. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

How to get the URL...

...of a PDF found through Google? If you search for "Nebraska Maternity Home" on Google, you'll find the hit from the Nebraska Health and Human Services System; the info is already in the article (Milford Industrial Home), but I don't know how to get the URL for it--Firefox opens the document but won't reveal the actual URL. Your help is appreciated. Drmies (talk) 22:50, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Drmies, it took me years to figure this out. Click on the little down carat next to the entry, then click on "Cached". Google will serve up an html version of the pdf along with its url: (http://nlc.nebraska.gov/docs/hhsshistory2-01.pdf). StarryGrandma (talk) 23:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

StarryGrandma, you are the best. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 23:45, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Drmies, Some things aren't cached. Another way is to download/save the pdf rather than just open it within FF, then click on the big blue downloads arrow, often at the top right next to Home. Right click on the downloaded title, and click 'Copy Download Link'. Or click Menu bar Tools→Downloads for the same list. Sometimes this doesn't work when you just press Ctrl +J. HTH, MinorProphet (talk) 05:25, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

If those don't work you can edit the google url:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjdlJCc7IbuAhUxVBUIHfaeDdkQFjACegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnlc.nebraska.gov%2Fdocs%2Fhhsshistory2-01.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0OcR6d16GToy4UmlILwuRW

You want the red bit with blue edited (%3A to : and %2F to /) to get the url. Tricky at first but becomes easy after a few times, although I will try the suggestions above next time.—  Jts1882 | talk  08:13, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I have a script to do that. I've never used it, but https://urlclean.com/ claims to do the same and it might be safe to use. Johnuniq (talk) 09:00, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Having copied a link from Google into my clipboard, I open a plain text editor (vi, notepad, WordPad or similar), paste in the link and proceed as follows:

1. Locate the &url=, remove everything from the start of the line up to and including those five characters
2. In what remains, locate the first instance of the & character, remove everything including that character until the end of the line
3. Apply percent-encoding in reverse, leaving any instances of %25 until last. The characters most often found encoded are:
   • %3A → :
   • %2F → /
   • %3F → ?
   • %26 → &
   • %2B → +
   • %25 → %

They may be decoded in any order, except that the decoding of %25 to % must be done after all the others because it may indicate a character which is deliberately encoded, and must remain as such - such as an accented letter or non-Latin letter. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:04, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

In the old days I might have spent all night debugging a precarious sed script with multiple regex and escapes to die for, but luckily whatever skills I had, have now deserted me... Or I might have tried using edlin with gorilla.bas running in the background on DESQview under MS-DOS 3.3. Ah, the joy of an entire 1 MB of RAM. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MinorProphet (talk • contribs) 13:13, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Not the same vibe, running gorilla.bas on Windows 10. Just did though – for old times sake. (With the enclosing emulator it is 1.8Mb too.) — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 14:54, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I've written a tool which makes it easy to percent encode/decode URLs: toolforge:ftools/general/url-encode.html -FASTILY 00:34, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Drmies, In Chrome, you can open the Developer Tools window (View / Developer), go to the Network tab, and see every HTTP request that's made in the process of rendering a page. I often use that to find the deeplink URL for an image which is included on a page via javascript/flash/whatever that obfuscates the HTML. It looks like Firefox has something similar under Tools / Web Developer / Network.

I'm not sure if this actually solves your specific problem, but it's a handy trick to know.

And, of course, once you've found the URL, curl and/or wget are your friends for actually fetching the document into a file via the command line. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:44, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, all of you! Drmies (talk) 14:40, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I have a browser add-on that does this for me. I think it's Google search link fix by Wladimir Palant. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:23, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Size of caps in citations

Hi all, is there anywhere to propose that the size of identifiers such as isbn and jstor might be reduced when using {{cite book}} etc.? Especially when there is no url specified, the big blue all caps really stand out, making them seem more important than they need to be. eg

• Smith, Arthur (2020). Arthur Smith's Big Book of Fun. ISBN 9780299128340. JSTOR 2639814.
  

Obviously it can be done by hand <small>{{isbn|9780299128340}}</small>, ISBN 9780299128340 but seems not to be possible within {cite book}. Maybe I'm alone, and anyway the purely aesthetic change might not be welcome especially in such widely-used templates. Cheers, and HNY >MinorProphet (talk) 05:29, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

WT:CS1 is probably the venue, but these templates are mostly used in references, which are small by default, so MOS:SMALL would say no to your suggestion. Nardog (talk) 06:12, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Today, we currently shrink the |format= to 95% (and used to do the same for |registration= and |subscription=), which given the reference context keeps us above 85%. It's not out of the question. Maybe we could consider adding a span so that all IDs can be smaller for personal use, or removed. --Izno (talk) 06:22, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Izno, that sounds like an excellent idea if it could be done. Thanks all for your swift replies. >MinorProphet (talk) 06:42, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Automatic citation tool in Visual Editor broken?

If I create a citation using VE and this link https://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2013/09/brits-with-birthdays-downtowns-rob-james-collier-adds-a-year-and-more , the tool changes the link into https://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/anglophenia/blog/2013/09/brits-with-birthdays-downtowns-rob-james-collier-adds-a-year-and-more (note: addition of /shows/ and /blog/), which obviously breaks it. Any ideas why or I am just being dense? Caius G. (talk) 09:17, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Caius G., it's looks to mosly be an issue with the site. The site is defining a meta property og:url, which is used to set the canonical URL for the page, to https://www.bbcamerica.com/shows/anglophenia/blog/2013/09/brits-with-birthdays-downtowns-rob-james-collier-adds-a-year-and-more, hence why the tool is getting the URL. Intestinging the page's canonical link element is correctly set to the original URL. – BrandonXLF (talk) 03:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

BrandonXLF interesting, thanks for letting me know! Best, Caius G. (talk) 13:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Mobile view and copyrighted images in the "RELATED ARTICLES" page section

I am not sure if this is the best place to mention this issue. Basically, when a Wikipedia article is viewed in mobile mode in a desktop version of the Mozilla Firefox browser, there will (at least sometimes) be a "RELATED ARTICLES" section near the bottom of the page. For each related article that is mentioned, there is the name of the article and sometimes a text excerpt and sometimes an image from the article. Each related article has a hyperlink to the article. A possible concern that comes to mind is when the entry for a related article includes an image that is copyrighted. For example, when viewing the article Forced-air in mobile mode, one of the entries in the "RELATED ARTICLES" section is for the article Furnace. However, the entry for the Furnace article includes a small (and possibly cropped) version of the image File:Home_oil_furnace.jpg which appears in the article. From what I can tell, the image File:Home_oil_furnace.jpg is copyrighted and when it appears in the "RELATED ARTICLES" section of the Forced-air article, it is not clear that there is any attribution information or any information about the licensing of the image. Though there is a hyperlink to the Furnace article, I am not sure that a hyperlink to the article containing the image is sufficient when it comes to attributing and identifying the licensing of the File:Home_oil_furnace.jpg image itself. (Another possible copyright issue is when the entry for a related article includes a short text excerpt from the article.) --Elegie (talk) 09:49, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

We (well, the software developers) take some reasonable liberty with cases such as these. While it's possible someone would take legal action regarding snippets and small versions of some images they have taken that are otherwise free to use, I'm not inclined to believe anyone would. Especially since these have been displayed there for some half decade at least, at this point. --Izno (talk) 10:09, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Tag reverted

Why is '(Tag: Reverted)' present here if new section was made without editing past revision? It happened on other pages too, when just editing page and publishing changes. --Obsuser (talk) 10:23, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Because you reverted yorself in this edit. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:48, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

The revert is the next edit [4]. "Tag: Reverted" means "Edits that were later reverted by a different edit". This can be seen by clicking "Tag" and searching for "Reverted" (Ctrl+F in many browsers). PrimeHunter (talk) 11:41, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I think previous revisions in history should not be altered in a way they are affected by following edits. It is not intuitive. '(cur | prev) 10:51, 6 January 2021‎ Obsuser (talk | contribs‎) (133,944 bytes) (+452)‎ (→‎Klix.ba and Dnevni avaz: new section) (undo)' (with links, dots etc.) was true for that line in the moment a new section was made, why change it... I still think '(Tag: Reverted)' was added when not needed in other cases or even this case but never mind. --Obsuser (talk) 17:41, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

That "reverted" tag is one of the best enhancements to the software for some time because it makes it easy to see which edits made by a disruptive user need to be examined. Does anyone know if the tag was added by a volunteer dev or by WMF staff? Either way, thanks! Johnuniq (talk) 02:40, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

It was added by a Google Summer of Code 2020 intern. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:42, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. Big thanks to Ostrzyciel. Johnuniq (talk) 05:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

War of 1812

On the infobox, it saying 2 years and 8 months for how long it's been when it's very inaccurate. Something may be wrong with the template being used. 2603:301D:22B2:4000:E0D6:B396:BD2F:1C3B (talk) 02:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

No, that is correct, from start to finish, from 18 June 1812 to 17 February 1815, was about 2 years and 8 months. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 02:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Template talk:No article text § TfD merge nomination

 You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:No article text § TfD merge nomination. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 08:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC)Template:Z48

Temporarily watching pages

We now have a new option for temporarily watching pages, which I think is very useful.

I took a glance at the filter options and did not see a way to filter to see only temporarily watched pages. is there a way to do that that I am missing? If not, put someone who knows how to update the filter changes option add it to the list?--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Cool idea, but no, I am fairly certain that is not supported. You would need to ask for it on Phabricator. --Izno (talk) 20:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: Are you talking about Special:Watchlist filters (i.e. to see only changes made to pages you watch temporarily)? I'm confused what the use-case is for that. Or, are you just looking for a way to view all pages you watch temporarily (i.e. to see which ones will expire soon)? — MusikAnimal ^talk 03:50, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

If the latter is the case, 'View and edit watchlist' (found on the watchlist) shows how much time is left for temporarily-watched pages. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 05:21, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

BlackcurrantTea, I don't see 'View and edit watchlist' I see 'view', 'talk', 'edit' and "edit your list of watched pages" but I don't think any of those are what you refer to. if you mean the last one it takes far too long to load. S Philbrick(Talk) 14:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Sphilbrick, in Monobook, the links across the top of the watchlist are (View relevant changes | View and edit watchlist | Edit raw watchlist | Clear the watchlist). I don't know if 'edit your list of watched pages' is equivalent to 'View and edit watchlist' or to 'Edit raw watchlist'; Edit raw watchlist doesn't show which pages are temporarily watched. However as it wouldn't show which of those have had recent changes, it might not be of use to you. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 15:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

> Are you talking about Special:Watchlist filters

Yes, when I click on the "filter changes" box, it brings up special: watchlist

I participated in the development of the temporary option, and my sole motivation was that I am active in CopyPatrol. when I make an edit as a result of identifying a copyright issue, I'd like to have that page of my watchlist for a little while but not forever. While I have to make that change manually, I'd like to see all of the, and only the pages that I've temporarily watchlisted to see if there's some subsequent activity on pages with copyright issues. In most cases, they involve brand-new users who may not know about contacting me. S Philbrick(Talk) 14:49, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

A version of the watchlist with only temporarily-watched pages is a good idea. Aside from its utility for your CopyPatrol work, it seems like an option people would find a use for, if it existed. It would be a quick way to check on IPs I've left notes for. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 15:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Monobook separator lines have gone invisible

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T271482

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T269618

In my usual viewing preference, monobook, separator lines like you get with four hyphens, as below:

---

are no longer visible and no separation happens. This is a problem for viewing long lists with separator lines splitting parts of them from each other, such as the ones created by User:AlexNewArtBot/User:InceptionBot. I tried switching to vector and the separator lines were back, so this problem is specific to monobook. Is this happening for anyone else? Is there a bug? Is there a possible fix or workaround? —David Eppstein (talk) 22:19, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I can still see them in Monobook on Firefox but there is a FOUC where they are invisible before and then visible after, which indicates that some Javascript is being applied to hide them initially for some reason. Do you read without Javascript? That would explain why. --Izno (talk) 22:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm seeing this too, replicated on testwiki

• missing hl in monobook
• hl shows with safemode

— xaosflux ^Talk 22:59, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

OK, now its inconsistent.... annoying for sure. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:01, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Missing for me too (FF 52.9, MonoBook), might be related to MediaWiki talk:Common.css#Infoboxes? or maybe WP:ITSTHURSDAY. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:08, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Nah, the only correlation is that it's Thursday. The infobox query is due to some work that Isarra did on Timeless skin. --Izno (talk) 00:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Getting to happen with regularity, added notes to the ticket. Possibly related to "content box" styling. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Missing for me, too, on my userpage (specifically noticed it at User:Rhododendrites/hr2top), but switching from Monobook to Vector fixed it (don't make me switch for good!). — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 23:34, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I totally forgot I could hotfix this locally as a guaranteed display. Done. HRs should reappear for you soonly. --Izno (talk) 00:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Is now phab:T269618. — xaosflux ^Talk 02:34, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Problems with Tables and Infoboxes

Hi, sorry if I'm posting in the wrong place or something, but I'm in need of help. Whenever I look at certain pages on Wikipedia, tables and infoboxes display incorrectly. They either go out of bounds, stretch longer than usual, or add a bunch of white space (happens to me with the GameCube infobox and tables of review scores for just about any video game). This occurs on both my laptop and desktop, but strangely doesn't occur when I'm not signed in. I tried switching themes, and the same theme looked different when comparing logged in to not logged in. This has only started recently, anyone have any clue what could be causing this? Thanks for reading. | NJ (talk) 06:14, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Njsmooth2600, I am by no means an expert, and was coming here to ask my own question, but saw this and recognized it as being similar to something that happened to me in the recent-ish past. My issue was the addition a bunch of white space to the right of my screen, and it only happened when I was logged in. The solution for me was a setting I didn't realize I had turned on (Preferences » Gadgets » Appearance » "Improved appearance for mobile, narrow, and wide screens"). Try turning that off and see if it works! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 08:24, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Njsmooth2600: What is your skin at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering? What is your browser? Try to bypass your cache on GameCube with Ctrl+F5 in many Windows browsers, not merely F5. Please link an example article with a table of review scores where it happens. Does it happen at Grand Theft Auto (video game)#Reception? If it does then is it the same in safemode? Some things look bad in safemode but that table should be the same. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:31, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter:Hi, sorry for taking so long to respond. I'm currently using the chromium-based edge with the Timeless skin, and the issue does persist on the GTA page. As of now, I've disabled all Gadgets, did the cache reload thing. reset my browser cache and cookies, and using safemode (tables still jank), but nothing works. Something I have noticed is that, for a split second while it's loading, the page looks fine (Infobox fine on GameCube, table fine on GTA), but then immediately reverts to jank. Sorry... | NJ (talk) 14:58, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

This is phab:T271473. You can switch skins temporarily or wait until it is fixed. --Izno (talk) 15:16, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

(I wrote this before your reply, but I still thought I'd share it) Small update, I figured out that when I switch from Timeless to Vector, then back to Timeless, the "Improved appearance for mobile and narrow screens" Gadget keeps getting turned back on. I also compared the vector skins when logged in to not logged in (using the GTA page), and I noticed a couple differences with the page (the most notable being the page margins being MASSIVE when logged in). At this point, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with that gadget, but I'm not at all sure what. | NJ (talk) 15:28, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

It also happens without the gadget. Something in Timeless is adding style="width: 956px;" to <caption>...</caption>. The number 956 depends on the window width. It apparently tries to center the caption in the whole window instead of the table. Tiny example:

{| style="border: 1px solid;"
|+ Caption
|-
|Cell
|}

It produces:

Caption

Cell

View in Timeless PrimeHunter (talk) 15:43, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I'll fix it! It's a bit of bad js doing this. I was trying to make overflowing table captions stay visible regardless of scroll, but uuuh clearly it didn't quite target correctly. I think it's a simple fix but I gotta find an infobox I can easily yoink for better testing both to be sure here, and to make sure nothing like this happens again... -— Isarra ༆ 17:43, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Automatic edit count

Just a quick question - is there a way (say, a template or something), that can automatically retrieve an editor's edit count? I tried {{Editcount}} but it was not what I was looking for. I'm just thinking something that I could plug into a template such as {{Service award progress}} under the edits parameter that would let me avoid having to manually update my edit count every so often. Thanks! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 08:27, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

PCN02WPS, nope, no such template currently exists, despite perennial requests for it. See e.g. this discussion from a few months back. A template that scrapes the bot-updated WP:List of Wikipedians by edit count would I think be possible, but it wouldn't be easy and wouldn't cover editors with low edit counts. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 09:19, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Bot requests/Frequently denied bots#Bots to update edit counts and Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/EditCountBot. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:54, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Sdkb and PrimeHunter, thanks anyways for your responses! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:37, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Pageviews does not work

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T271561

Pageviews does not work, see [5] - "pageviews-20210106-140000.gz" is the last file. --BlueDonny (talk) 16:58, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

@BlueDonny: seems to be stalled, I opened phab:T271561 for you. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:04, 8 January 2021 (UTC)