Talk:List of airliner shootdown incidents

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Alleged shootdowns?[edit]

Nice work here thus far. I was wondering, what about cases where a shootdown is alledged? I'm not talking conspiracy theories here, but cases where there is serious likelyhood the aircraft was in fact shot down. To take two examples I have worked on, the 2007 Balad aircraft crash and the 2007 Mogadishu TransAVIAexport Airlines Il-76 crash were both, to my mind, almost certainly shootdowns. In the later, Belarussian officials even reacted openly as to an act of terrorism, and instigated a terrorist investigation. What sort of guidlines can we come up with? Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 21:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me, since there are sources in the article to say both. I didn't include it or the DHL Baghdad incident because I could imagine someone taking issue with "cargo planes" being included in an "airliner" list so didn't want to go too far into it without getting other's reaction.
My only preferences, keeping WP:OWN in mind, is 1) that we only include items to which an article is linked and if none exists then sources MUST be provided in order to list something. I purposely didn't include Malév Flight 240 because it's missing sources. 2) Only incidents where civilian/commercial planes are brought down by AAA, SAM, or small arms fire should be included. An incident of a bombing, sabotage, or hijacking should be separate in my opinion. Anynobody 01:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I have seen some evidence that Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870 should be on the Bombings page not as a shootdown. An English team and an investigator from AAIB found that the evidence pointed to a bomb in the rear toilet ( between rear engines ). Check the political connections ( left wing? ) of the italian reporters as some may have a "blame the US" bias.
In Italy, it is nowadays usual to affirm (e.g. in history classes at school) that the Itavia flight was likely shot down by NATO forces by mistake. The alternate bombing theory never gained much credibility. Anyway, even if that theory was proven true, people would expect to find that flight in the shootdown list, not in the bombing list, so, if the item is moved, there should at least be a pointer. Vbertola (talk) 08:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I put the DHL shootdown back in. The point here is not passenger aircraft, it is civilian aircraft, and DHL qualifies. 97.113.105.224 (talk) 14:56, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Attempted shootdown?[edit]

Should this include the 2002 "narrow miss"[1] of an Arkia plane taking off in Kenya? That incident resulted in missile defense install on israeli civilian planes.. Skullers 02:42, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Does Operation Tarnegol count?[edit]

not sure if it counts as an airliner. Any thoughts? Egg Centric (talk) 12:05, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, the aircraft shot down was a Ilyushin Il-14, which is in the category Category:Soviet airliners 1950-1959 (a subcategory of Category:Soviet and Russian airliners), so I'd be inclined to say yes; on the other hand, this article begins 'in the history of commercial aviation...', and that wasn't a commercial flight carrying paying passengers, but a government aircraft carrying members of the general staff. You could argue it either way I suppose; I think I'll take a compromise view and add a link to it in the 'see also' section. Robofish (talk) 23:43, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114 - Reference to Ethiopian shootdown removed[edit]

I have removed a reference to an alleged shootdown of an ethiopian airplane by israel in the Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114 entry. I have also removed it in the main article for that incident. It was added to the main article in February 2009 without a source and without explanation in the edit summary. No source has been provided and I cannot find any reference online to the alleged incident that does not apparently stem from the (incorrect) wikipedia entry. - Redshield3 (talk) 15:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

1994 US Friendly Fire Shooting Over Iraq[edit]

I removed this section from the list as it doesn't belong to it. A military helicopter is clearly not an airliner. Phoenix ICR (talk) 16:58, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Assassination of Juvénal Habyarimana and Cyprien Ntaryamira[edit]

I am wondering whether this event should not be included into the list. If this aircraft was not really an airliner it was still a civil aircraft. --Lebob (talk) 21:36, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

17/7/2014 plane down[edit]

I changed the text to an neutral, confirmed stance. I'm HIGHLY requesting an page lockdown. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.175.73.50 (talk) 16:27, 17 July 2014 (UTC) This one was me. MicBenSte (talk) 16:30, 17 July 2014 (UTC) SORRY about deleting the entire article...I did delete it because I was surprised it was up so fast since there were so many unconfirmed reports (I know news sites were cited, but there were conflicts of information and to this moment there still are). Actually the first time I edited a wikipedia article...very surprised at how easy it was just to put anything you want in...won't edit it again! haha — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.122.200.146 (talk) 20:33, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

280 people were onboard, plus 15 crew instead of the incorrectly listed 282. Could someone edit that in, as my account is not confirmed? http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-reportedly-shot-down-near-ukraine-russia-border-1.2709881 Anthonyliu (talk) 22:18, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Removed "The Buk missile system belonged to the 53rd anti-air (AA) brigade from Kursk (Russia).", as it's not in the citation given. Deathmare (talk) 12:44, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2014[edit]

Reference 34 "Donetsk People’s Republic militia downs another Ukraine’s An-26 plane — eyewitnesses" has the wrong year. Change 2001 to 2014. "20:01" is the time of day on the referenced page. 65.216.171.130 (talk) 17:03, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Pan Am Flight 708[edit]

Why isn't Pan Am Flight 708 listed? It was suspected shot down over East Germany in 1966 as it approached Berlin Tegel Airport. 75.44.28.121 (talk) 19:21, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Dag Hammarskjöld's plane?[edit]

I think the incident with Dag Hammarskjöld may qualify for a mention here. On 18 September his Douglas DC-6 crashed in Ndola, Northern Rhodesia (now Zambia). Hammarskjöld and fifteen others perished in the crash. In April 2014 it was reported that Jan van Risseghem shit it down as he had been heard on the radio saying: "I see a transport plane coming low. All the lights are on. I'm going down to make a run on it. Yes, it is the Transair DC-6. It's the plane,". For more details and sources to this see the Dag H Wikipedia page.

Semi-protected edit request on 22 July 2014[edit]

In the section on MH17 (2014):

The crash of Flight 17 coincided with alleged claims by Russian separatists from Donetsk region in Eastern Ukraine of having shot down a military [[Antonov An-26|An-26]].<ref>{{cite news| url=http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164 | work=ITAR-TASS | title=Donetsk People’s Republic militia downs another Ukraine’s An-26 plane — eyewitnesses | date=July 17, 2014}}</ref>

has been truncated after "of having shot down." This leaves an incomplete, unsourced statement which makes no sense. The words "[of having shot down] a military AN-26." and the footnote need to be restored. 2001:5C0:1000:A:0:0:0:74F (talk) 21:47, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Thanks for pointing that out! —Mr. Granger (talk · contribs) 00:38, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Malev flight 240 Can someone please add Malev flight 240 to this list. The Hungarian-registered Tu-154 was downed on Sep 30th 1975 while in a holding pattern waiting to land at Beirut; all 50 passengers and 10 crew died. There was no distress call sent out by the crew and the weather was good at the time. Both Israel and Syria have been suggested as possible suspects and The plane was supposed to have been carrying a PLO delegation (but the delegation did not board due to last minute schedule changes). The radar signature picked up at Akrotiri (Cyprus) appeared to match that of an F-4 Phantom (which was only used by the Israeli air-force at that time) and there are allegations that the missiles were AA side-winders (again these were only available to Israel) which struck the starboard fuselage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxzden (talkcontribs) 05:14, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

TWA 800[edit]

Any thoughts on including TWA 800 as a possible ? 212.121.210.45 (talk) 13:56, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

1994 Iranian Air Force C-130 shootdown[edit]

I have doubts whether the 1994 Iranian Air Force C-130 shootdown belongs here. It wasn't a civilian airliner, but owned and operated by the Iranian Air Force. Most people on plane however were civilians (embassy personnel) but is that enough to make it into this list? --Pudeo' 01:26, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Clearly a military transport would not be considered an airliner just because it was carrying civilians so probably doesnt belong. MilborneOne (talk) 12:28, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
I've removed it. --Pudeo' 12:41, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

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2015 Metrojet Doesn't Seem To Belong[edit]

Not sure why the 2015 Metrojet crash is listed here. Nearly all reputable sources, and even the main Wikipedia article indicate that it was brought down by a bomb placed aboard, not an external shootdown.

[1]

2601:448:4200:BCC:51C0:2792:D6B9:32C1 (talk) 17:26, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

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2003 DHL[edit]

"Severe wing damage resulted in a fire and complete loss of hydraulic flight control systems.[34] The pilots used differential engine thrust to fly the plane back to Baghdad, and were able to land without any injuries or major aircraft damage"

Does "without major aircraft damage" mean "except for the wing" or "without other major aircraft damage"? I wonder if this could be phrased better? Tvjames (talk) 14:04, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

BOAC Flight 777[edit]

Now that User:Flyingd is loosing the battle at the Dutch Wikipedia about his additions, he now starts adding the superfluous information here.

As this is a List of airliner shootdown incidents the information given should be about the actual incidents. But Flyingd added some prior incidents to List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents#BOAC_Flight_777. In this case the text The same aircraft was attacked twice before on the same route on 15 November 1942 and 19 April 1943 (see the main article about BOAC Flight 777).

As this has nothing to do with the incident, I propose removal. The Banner talk 13:26, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I consider this relevant information, besides the fact that the same civilian airliner had been attacked twice before on the same route which is unique in aviation history. Not making any reference to these previous attacks when describing the last fatal attack seems ridiculous. I am also not loosing any battle on the Dutch WP as there are just as many people that agree with me on this issue. Flyingd (talk) 13:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Agree should not be added, not really relevant to this list. MilborneOne (talk) 14:31, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
A bit of history on this matter: Some years ago I looked on the internet to see what was published about BOAC 777. I was very suprised to see that on the ENWP there was a nice extensive article about this incident but nothing existed on the Dutch Wikipedia, notable as it was about KLM aircraft with KLM crews that had managed to divert to England after the occupation of the Netherlands on May 10th 1940. I decided to initiate a Dutch article BOAC 777 based upon the English article. During extented time I was the only one working on it, translating the English article section by section. However a small group of people (3-4, including The Banner) kept on removing large sections of text without any discussion. Even in this article the mention (let alone a description) of the previous attacks were deleted every time. Parts of my original BOAC 777 article where put behind a non-descript wikilink PH-ALI and other parts were copied to the dutch KLM article (in the history section). In other words the whole Dutch BOAC 777 article was reduced to almost nothing and it remains like this to this day. Flyingd (talk) 14:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Sorry but what happens on another article and even another wiki is not relvant to this discussion. MilborneOne (talk) 15:01, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
Just as the Dutch equivalent, this is a list of shootdown incidents. This is not an overview of prior incidents with the plane. That belongs in the article about the plane itself. The Banner talk 17:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
I agree with MilborneOne and The Banner. That extra information is not relevant enough to be mentioned on this list. - Robotje (talk) 17:33, 10 June 2018 (UTC)