Talk:Yukon Quest

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Featured article Yukon Quest is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 27, 2009.

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Yukon Quest/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
    i. In the lead, 4 is written as a digit multiple times, it should be shown as a word
    ii. In the "Braeburn to Pelly" section, it says the route follows a driveway. To me (in the UK) a driveway is the place in front of the house where you park your car. I'm guessing here it is being used in a different sense - can you clarify by an appropriate wikilink or rewording?
    iii. In the "Pelly to Dawson" section, one sentence starts with a number written in digits, this needs to be changed
    iv. "The river's name doesn't come..." seems a bit chatty for an encyclopedia article
    v. "In winter, Eagle buffeted by high winds" - missing word
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    Overall, an excellent read. If you can address the prose issues above, I will pass the article -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Continued FAC review[edit]

  • dropping the Yukon half of the Quest because the Yukon half of the race had not met fundraising goals." "Yukon half of the ..." is a redundancy, and I would just change the second use to "it". Shouldn't be any confusion over what it's referring to.
  • Second decade: "financial troubles again troubled the race." Redundancy trouble. :-)
  • Last sentence of section: The 1984-1995 and 1996-2007 date ranges should either have en dashes or a "to" in the middle instead. Personally I prefer the latter method, but either would be fine.
  • Third decade: Change the spaced em dashes to unspaced em dashes or spaced en dashes.
  • The text repeats itself when stating that the 2009 race was the closest in the event's history.
  • "Quest 300 and Junior Quest: Chop "also" from the first sentence. "In addition" is the only transition that sentence needs.
  • Reference 84 (AKC) has no given publisher.

That's all from me. Giants2008 (17-14) 19:08, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments from copyedit[edit]

  • Is there a reason why the "sportsmanship award" is not capitalized, and all of the other awards are? It seems a bit strange...
  • I guess I didn't think it was a proper name, but after looking at a few sources, I think it can be capitalized, since it does seem to be its proper name.
  • Mention is made near the end of the Quest 300 being a qualifier for this and the Iditarod. The article does not list the entry requirements for any of the three races described; it probably should.
  • Excellent idea. I've added a subsection to the "rules" section.
  • Should Wikipedia have a List of dogsled races (for example, to list other races that satisfy the qualifying requirement)?
  • I've started the list now. Thanks for suggesting it. JKBrooks85 (talk) 10:02, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

I've finished copyediting; good luck with FAC. Magic♪piano 20:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Comments by Blofeld[edit]

Intro needs condensing as it's too long. Particularly the info about the dog drops, dog welfare and finishing times. Dr. Blofeld White cat 10:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Good article, my feeling though is it needs to be more concise and could be considerably cut, not only in the intro but in the race stage info. I would also place the history section first as a lot of the information forms a background to the race which should come first. Dr. Blofeld White cat 11:03, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Pre-FAC review[edit]

Some specific questions/issues:

  • Regarding the Mann vs moose incident (sorry, couldn't help myself): I'm dying to know why butchering game was made a rule. Was he required to remove it as well?
  • I haven't found a source that states why, but I assume that it's part of the whole woodcraft aspect of the race. Butchering implies removal.
  • The term 'scratch' is used throughout the article. I get it, but I suspect many people wouldn't; can you explain it in context?
  • Got it. Added an explanation and interwiki link on first reference.
  • Two issues with the presentation of the Mackey brothers item: it's out of chrono order (presented in Second decade when Rick won, but did not technically occur until Third decade when Lance won), and it's confusing to describe it as a 'tandem' when this is a solo race.
  • I need to introduce the brothers item at first reference, otherwise it's not apparent why Rick Mackey winning is notable. As to "tandem", could you suggest another word or phrase? I didn't want to use "team" for the reason you stated, but "pair" would run into the same problem you state.
  • The image File:Yukon Quest participants graph.svg shows only one line (Racers), although the key indicates that there should be a line representing Finishers. I can't see it at any resolution.
  • It's shown as a gray line, and it appears for me ... can anyone else reproduce this bug?
  • FWIW, I can't see it in FF 3.0.13 or IE 8. I had someone else check; she could see the Finishers line in FF 3.0 and IE 7, but said it was very faint.
  • I've changed the color from gray to red. Hopefully that improves readability. JKBrooks85 (talk) 21:05, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
  • I was a bit confused about the maximum number of dogs; this apparently changed sometime after the original race, but is not explicitly mentioned. Do any sources indicate when this was raised?
  • I'll check my sources, but I'm not sure when the team requirement was changed. JKBrooks85 (talk) 06:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

In general, this is well-written, but it suffers from a few problems:

  • the prose needs pruning for wordiness;
  • there seems to be a bit of unnecessary name-dropping (It's certainly reasonable to mention winners' names, but do we need to know the name of the vet who was dropped? the guy who killed the moose? the guy refused entry to Canada? I'm not even clear why the 4 guys who originally came up with the idea are listed by name, as only one of them is subsequently mentioned at all.);
  • the current structure has resulted in some redundancies (the moose incident is mentioned twice, as are the helicopter evacuation and Schnuelle's winning the 2009 race).

I'm sure I can help with the wordiness issue; let me know if you'd like me to give it a go. Maralia (talk) 03:42, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

"I'm dying to know why butchering game was made a rule."
I don't know but I would guess that someone involved in the organisation of the race frowned upon frivolous killing and/or wasting meat. Plugwash (talk) 23:06, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Nadeau[edit]

Andre or André Nadeau? The first seems unlikely, but it gets more ghits. On the other hand the ghits are in E-language pages and perhaps the writers were just lazy. "André" does get this, this and more. -- Hoary (talk) 12:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  • I'm going with the accented mark. I trust the newspaper article a bit more than the other ones that pop up under Google. JKBrooks85 (talk) 08:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Mayor's Award[edit]

Mayor of where? -- Hoary (talk) 12:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Cosgrove[edit]

Alaskan Bruce Cosgrove was denied entry by Canadian customs officials, the first and only time a musher has been denied entry into either Canada or Alaska. The denial had no impact on the race, as Cosgrove quit before the border.

Denied entry by immigration officials, I'd have thought; though for all I know the same people handle immigration and customs and are referred to as customs officials. Or conceivably he actually had customs rather than immigration problems.

Whoever it was who denied him entry, I don't quite understand this. I hazily infer that the Canadian(s) met him in Alaska and told him he couldn't enter, whereupon he ignored them, headed toward the border, but dropped out before he reached it. But this doesn't hang together very plausibly. -- Hoary (talk) 20:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

  • I clarified this a bit. Let me know if it's still lumpy. JKBrooks85 (talk) 08:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Now it's fine. Well done. -- Hoary (talk) 08:35, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

A final (?) chore[edit]

The article's in pretty good shape, as far as this ignoramus can see. At least one tiresome stylistic chore needs to be done, however. Consider this pair of notes (after markup stripping):

  • Yukon Quest International. "Yukon Quest Race History", Yukonquest.com. Accessed February 22, 2009.
  • Saari, Matias. "Founders recall origins of the Yukon Quest", Fairbanks Daily News-Miner. February 6, 2008. Accessed February 22, 2009.

And more precisely, compare these parts of them

  • "Yukon Quest Race History"
  • "Founders recall origins of the Yukon Quest"

Every style guide I've ever seen, and my own taste, strongly says that one should ignore the tastes in cApitAliZAtion of individual sources, and instead standardize on either the "up"

  • "Yukon Quest Race History"
  • "Founders Recall Origins of the Yukon Quest"

style or the "down"

  • "Yukon Quest race history"
  • "Founders recall origins of the Yukon Quest"

style. ("Up": capitalize wherever doing so isn't ridiculous. "Down": capitalize only where you'd have to if this weren't a title.)

I'm not going to do the job of standardizing, because I'm a lazy fellow, and because I don't know which you'd prefer, JKBrooks85, for your article. If you don't know either, then I'd recommend "down": (i) it looks less pompous, and (ii) there are fewer stylistic/syntactic decisions to be made.

The next question is of how far you go with this. Is it OK to standardize one way (down) for article titles and the other way (up) for book titles and the like? Some people would say no, but I don't think that even the most obsessive of FAC people normally go to such extremes.

Anyway, it's certainly worth spending ten minutes or more deciding on what should be done before implementing it. Worst is to decide on one "solution" and then realize why it's a crock and have to redo most of it. -- Hoary (talk) 08:35, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

  • I'm inclined to "down" as well, but the tricky thing comes when you've got something like No. 118: "Fairbanks woman claims Red Lantern as Yukon Quest draws to a close" ... should "red lantern" be capped because you're referring to the award rather than just a generic lantern? I'll go through and lowercase some of the more obvious ones (Mission Statement and Philosophy, forex), but if you think I'm missing something, don't hesitate to throw me a note. JKBrooks85 (talk) 12:00, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Yes, capped, because it's the award. ¶ I think the article's pretty good now. If you agree, how about throwing it to the wolves the friendly folk who spend their time at FAC? -- Hoary (talk) 04:39, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

"more of a Bush experience"[edit]

The article said:

"We wanted more of a Bush experience, a race that would put a little woodsmanship into it", Shank said at the race's 25th anniversary.<ref name="founding"/>

My own first reaction: Thanks, but eight years of the more recent Bush was quite enough of an experience for me.

Sure enough, the cited source does have Shank saying:

"We wanted more of a Bush experience, a race that would put a little woodsmanship into it"

The capital is mightily distracting here. I see no good reason for it. Since Shank said this rather than wrote it, surely it is unimportant even if intended by the writer of the article. (My own guess is that it was a mistake somehow deriving from the frequency of newspaper references to Prez Bush, so capitalized.)

In view of this, I decapitalized "Bush". -- Hoary (talk) 02:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

  • In the newspaper's style, Bush is capitalized in reference to Bush Alaska; i.e. those areas of Alaska off the road system. JKBrooks85 (talk) 04:44, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah. I don't know why this would be capitalized, but if (as suggested by its WP article) it commonly is capitalized then do feel free to revert from "bush" to "Bush". -- Hoary (talk) 05:09, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll also wikilink it in order to prevent the confusion that got us here. JKBrooks85 (talk) 05:57, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I was going to bring this up in FAC, but considered it so trivial that it wasn't worth mentioning. I should have just wikilinked it and stopped this before it began... MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 07:53, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Didn't know how to add a section, but there's something that needs to be addressed: Braelynn's comment in the introductory paragraph: (It is the most popular dog sledding race in the world by Braelynne) It adds some information that could be considered important, but it's a mess style-wise. First, it cites no sources, and, given that it's pretty much an opinion, is therefore suspect. A cursory examintation of Googled sources turns up no supporting reference, and it's something which would be hard to measure in any case. B) Braelynn's signature at the end should be removed. 3, It's just stuck on the end of the introductory paragraph in parentheses (exactly as quoted above,) with no period at the end and without even a space between it and the preceding parenthesis. iiii) The referent is unclear. It probably refers to the Yukon Quest itself, but it directly follows a sentence which refers to both the Yukon Quest 300 and the older Yukon quest 250, so, given the placement, it could be any of the three. If it can be shown to have merit, I would put it up front, in the introductory sentence. It seems like the "most popular dogsled race" tag may be a valid point, worthy of inclusion in the article, but unless some supporting documentation can be found, it might be better to delete the comment entirely.

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Is there a reason there is no List of YQ winners?[edit]

While looking for a place to put Matt Hall, I noticed that we have no List of Yukon Quest Champions. Anyone know why?L3X1 My Complaint Desk 21:43, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

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