User talk:Americasroof/Archive 5

Since I took care of something you had on your plate for a while....

Is there any chance you can take a picture of Thomas Moran House? I noted on your userpage that you have a house in East Hampton so I suspect you'll be out there before I get out that way again. If not, dont worry about it, thanks! dm (talk) 13:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for writing the article. I had the house on my list of todos so I was thrilled you wrote it. Over the years I've taken several pictures (the East Hampton Town article is mostly my work). I will try to add more. I started over today to take yet another photo but it's a rainy day and traffic is pretty horrendous. I'll try to post it again soon. Moran is buried across the street (updating the Moran article is on the list too of course) as is giving him better play in the artist section history of East Hampton. Americasroof (talk) 02:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I had nothing to do with it. doncram, one of the most diligent NHL and NRHP editors we have created the guts of that article. I just happen to have it on my list for a photo next time I get out there, unless you get to it first. Thanks! dm (talk) 05:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

The D and M got me confused especially since your name is kinda hidden. I posted the photo. It was an adventure. I never posted the earlier photos because the house which was so overgrown with vegetation that it was impossible to see. Now they're finally start to clean it up. It's in a very prominent location but you would never know it (the first house on the left after you turn into East Hampton village on Main Street at Town Pond). It is obscured though by a hedge row make it virtually invisible from the street. Ironically about an hour after I saw your mention, the public access station broadcast a whole program on the house. Americasroof (talk) 18:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey! Thanks for getting and posting the photo, I went ahead and added it to List of National Historic Landmarks in New York as well. Thanks again! dm (talk) 05:15, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Midwest Air Group

And exactly what category does that template add? It adds none. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:00, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

A valid question. Amex unlike other stock templates does not automatically add companies to an "Companies list on the American Stock Exchange." None the less the company does not exist. It is a defunct company or at best a subsidiary. The point of all this is that I knocked the AMEX template off on purpose. If you click on the symbol you will see that it's not there anymore. Americasroof (talk) 21:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:East Hampton Airport

Cheers for letting me know.

Like you say, i was quite busy and doing quite a lot of these semi-automatedly. I tried to make sure i fixed the bugs that appeared on some of them like this, but obviously, some slipped through the net

Thanks for letting me know

—Reedy 09:12, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Americasroof (talk) 15:11, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Photo requests

Salut ! I downloaded 8 photos of Shawnee Methodist Mission and put them in a gallery, as well as: Commerce Trust Building‎, Hyatt Regency Crown Center‎, Kansas City Power and Light Building, two of Kansas City Power & Light District‎, Kemper Museum of Contemporary Art‎ (I have a gallery to add of about six sculptures yet), Frank Lloyd Wright's Community Christian Church in: Architecture of Kansas City‎ (this should be a separate article, but I never start articles), Kansas City Public Library‎ (the old First national Bank of Kansas City), 2 images of The Paseo‎, Arabia Steamboat‎ Museum, City Market at River Market, the Charlie Parker‎ sculpture and mural in Power & Light District, and a new skyline image of Kansas City, Missouri from near The Paseo & Watkins Drive... many more to come (not enough time, because I was cleaning-up other things). Bien amicalement, Charvex (talk) 09:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC) - - - Alors, I saw your article on Jarvis Hunt and changes to George Kessler; you have been busy! - very nice. My sincerest compliments to you, of course!

Wow! You really have a spectacular eye! I saw your additions earlier. Wow! The Shawnee Mission is one of those big time cornerstones in Kansas City history. The Commerce photo was far better than anything I expected. Thanks. Spurring me for Kessler and Hunt was very fun. The Shinnecock Hills photo was one of mine that I had posted 2 years ago and I was floored to see that he had designed it. I myself did not realize how big Kessler's portfolio is. I am working on posting a list from the georgekessler.org site. It's an incredible list. I had snapped a photo of the bas relief of August Meyer but never posted it. Yours is much better. I had posted a Charlie Parker photo and it got nuked by the Wiki police who say you can't post a photo of a contemporary sculpture even if it's in a public park!!!!!!!!!! That has go to the dumbest thing I ever heard of. So beware. Now for more requests... My photo of the Paseo Bridge was shot late in the day in crappy weather. The only thing cool about it (shot from the Heart of America bridge) is that with the long lens it brought over the Worlds of Fun coasters in the background. A better photo is definitely needed. Also now that I see Hyde Park was Kessler's first major project, we probably need a photo of Hyde Park. The obvious section would be the leafy portion in the "hollow" on Gillham Road south of 39th. A really cool building is the Church of the Nazarene headquarters at 6401 Paseo. It has a really neat rotating globe. It's a major landmark and I hope it is still there since they are moving the headquarters to Lenexa this year. If you are up for night shots, we definitely need a KCPT tower night shot. The day photos don't do it justice. I shot the night photo of the Nelson however I didn't get the whole building. When I returned I was surpised to see that the addition looks pretty cool at night but by day it's kind of cheesey. I keep meaning to do more on Kansas City landmark buildings. The Kansas City Architecture page is a bit incoherent because it is mixing and matching stuff that should be in separate articles. Anyway thanks again! Americasroof (talk) 14:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I took new photos of most of the KC downtown big buildings today. I will post many of them soon. The Bryant Building (by Graham, Anderson, Probst & White) is certainly an Art Déco masterpiece. Really beautiful. I took a good photo today, but may reshoot it with best light possible to do it justice. (... etc. etc. more photo bavardage that I will not write now.) - - - - - You previously asked for a photo of Sprint Headquarters in Kansas - what a dreadful place! They obviously spent too much money on it, but the plan, in particular, is dehumanizing and without a soul; buildings are couched in pseudo-traditional elements; it has no redeeming value at all, in my opinion. - - - - - Also, you asked for the Kansas City Southern building. It looks cheap and new. This could not be the building you have in mind. They must have torn down a better building for it at the same address, however, I will post it sometime. - - - - - I drove to see Beth Shalom Synagogue on Wornall Road today - a monsterously big complex built in 1971 inspired by Frank Lloyd Wright, particularly his big Unitarian Meeting House in Shorewood Hills, Wisconsin (I attended a service there to see it). The whole Beth Shalom complex is for sale, and will probably be razed soon, although three faith services (only) are still held there each week in some small space. The two-story long-winding school and center for children is obviously abandoned. Is the new Beth Shalom somewhere in the other state worth seeing? - - - - - It seems that you have not seen the night photos that I took of the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art in a gallery in the center of that page. The sky was amazing that evening, as you will see. (I have many more photos of the Henry Moore sculptures and day museum photos to post. - - - - - The concrete caisson for the foundation of the new Paseo Bridge in the center of the Missouri River is under construction immediately east of the current bridge. (Three big cranes jut out of the river. Your photo will show those cranes when I take it.) The current bridge is not remarkable. - - - - - All of my photos are taken with a tiny, credit card size Casio camera. It is not so good with night pictures, but I will try the KCPL Building as the night begins for you sometime, with your other requests. With all good greetings. Charvex (talk) 06:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Follow-up: Hopefully, the WikiPolice will allow my photo of Charlie Parker to remain, as they have with similar photos that I have taken. »» Please look at the image to see the Fair Use comments that I add in these circumstances, which I adopted from other Wikipédiens who post art by living artists. It seems to work - (however, this would never go in France - smile - laws are different). Fair Use is a good thing. With my regards. Charvex (talk) 06:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Again, an awesome set of photos. You really have a good eye. I did a quick search on Beth Shalom and was surprised that most of the Jewish presence has left KC. I eagerly await your Paseo Bridge photos. My photo of the Hermann Bridge showed the new bridge under construction so your photos will be historic. The Paseo Bridge is disappointing. You have really nice photos of the new Bloch addition. When I took the photos of the Charlie Parker statue I didn't put the fair use language and that's what bit me. The Kansas City Southern Railway and Sprint Nextel buildings may not be remarkable but they are important components of KC for which we don't have photos. Anyway the Church of the Nazarenne at 6401 Paseo is an important building (it was the world's headquarters). The rotating globe is kitschy making the building fun to photograph. There's a whole bunch of red link articles at List of Registered Historic Places in Missouri, Counties J-K that need articles including the Bryant Building. There's probably 10 buildings I would like to write. The problem is that when writing them you see a whole new world of red links. Missouri has a really spectacular page that has the full application for most National Register buildings (I think I read somewhere that Missouri is actually the best state in the country when it comes to putting buildings on the National Register). The page with National Register info is at http://www.dnr.mo.gov/shpo/MNRList.htm Thanks again! P.S. I saw you deleted some employment info. I was surprised to see that company having a presence in KC.Americasroof (talk) 09:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

KC skyline pic

As an add-on to the above post. There is a skyline picture debate taking place on the Kansas CIty talk page. Grey Wanderer (talk) 18:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Americasroof (talk) 09:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings in Kansas City, Missouri

Salut! I add many new photos as replacements to your fine List of tallest buildings in Kansas City, Missouri, including the Bartle Hall Pylons, as you requested. I also took a photo of the Kansas City Power and Light Building at night and added a little section about the lighting from an old (1979) AIA guidebook to Kansas City. I will photograph 2555 and 2510 Grand Buildings to give your list 15 photos soon. I hope you find them satisfactory. (My little camera is not a Nikon - smile.) Charvex (talk) 10:32, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject Kansas City Chiefs

Please accept this invitation to join WikiProject Kansas City Chiefs, a WikiProject dedicated to improving all articles associated with the Kansas City Chiefs. Simply click here to accept!

Due to your involvemtn in WikiProject Kansas City, I would like to extend an invitation to WikiProject Kansas City Chiefs. Thanks! conman33 (. . .talk) 00:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the invitation. I started articles on War Paint, Jack Steadman and the architects of Arrowhead and expanded the history of Municipal Stadium as well have written about the business side of Hunt KC intersts. But I'm not sure if I would be good for the project. I have tended to avoid projects because I fear that they would make feel "obligated" and thus take the fun out of digging down. Thanks again and I'm glad you started the project. Americasroof (talk) 01:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Question: Tallest Buildings in KC?

Hello again. As I was photographing buildings in Kansas City for your excellent article, a few buildings came to my attention. I found out what they were and have been doing some preliminary searches to get building heights. The buildings that I am concerned about are these:

• Wallstreet Tower (former Mercantile Bank), downtown black steel pedestal base & bronze glass, (designed by Harry Weese - very characteristic of his work, 1974) - ? 88 m / 288 ft
• H&R Block Headquarters, downtown green glass oval, (designed by 360 Architects, new) - ? 72 m / 236 ft
• American Century Towers I & II, east of The Plaza with tiered, crenulated tops (designed by HKS, 1991 & 1994) - ? 72 m / 236 ft (each tower)
• Marriott Hotel, downtown with the nightly light show on the façade, (1986), ? 70 m / 231 ft

Also, from Emporis.com:

• Hotel Phillips, downtown - looks similar to Mark Twain Building, (Boillot & Lauck, 1930 - who designed the Parriott House in Tulsa on National Register) - ? 74 m / 243 ft
• Traders on Grand, downtown glass highrise, (1963), ? 73 m / 241 ft.

All of the building heights come from Emporis.com, which is useful but unreliable (as is Wikipédia - be we all try!).

These seven buildings seem to be candidates for the existing "Tallest Buildings" list. All of the buildings - except H&R Block - should be in your 2000 KCAIA book (mine - I found it used - is from 1979, does not have building heights!). I think your info should be correct, where Emporis is not. If these seven buildings are tall enough, we can add one or more of them either by expanding the list or dropping those that do not belong - whatever you decide.

Thank you for your efforts on this. Best regards, Charvex (talk) 06:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Wow you are way ahead of me. Your photos continue to astound. You actually made the Paseo Bridge look good! Anyway, I would go with the Emporis list for at least starters (I merely added to what was there). Feel free to add the buildings and just go down the Emporis list. When I was considering buildings I wanted to write about I wanted to lower the bar to the Crown Center Hotel. Great job! Americasroof (talk) 01:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Terminal Railroad article?

I haven't seen one yet, but looking at the search results for "terminal railroad", a good overview article would be helpful. Slambo (Speak) 19:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I question the applicability of the judicial definition of terminal railroad to the Portland Terminal Company which owned a fleet of railway cars used to transport cargo within its jurisdiction and the Springfield Terminal Railroad link under Maine Central Railroad. Both railroads may have begun operations under conditions similar the the definition, but Springfield Terminal Railroad expanded its operations to cover the full range of long haul services over the Guilford System presently known as Pan Am Railways. Might it be appropriate to modify or expand the terminal railroad definition to accommodate these lines and make the links more meaningful? Thewellman (talk) 01:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I added the definition from trains.com. I'm leery of veering too far off the legal definition. On the articles you mention you might make mention of their history. As I've added the link to terminal railroad on the various articles, I've been amazed at how many articles don't understand the concept. BTW, it was a great find to find Pan Am on a train article! Thanks! Americasroof (talk) 01:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I hate to say this, but I think you may have over-linked a bit after creating the article. For instance, neither the Altoona and Beech Creek Terminal Railroad nor the Pennsylvania Tunnel and Terminal Railroad are really "terminal railroads," sensu stricto, in my opinion. Both were created to extend and construct a terminal for their parent railroads, but neither extended service to connecting railroads, and, in fact, both were operated entirely as extensions of their parent company. (There's some question as to whether anything was actually built under the A&BCT charter, but let's not go there.) I'm considering removing the links on these corporations and any others that never fit the definition, but I'd like to hear your thoughts first. Choess (talk) 02:34, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. The Penn article clearly i.d.'s it as a classic terminal (e.g., multiple trunk lines). It's sort of a moot point on altoona since my linking was on the structure of another line which may or may not have built anything. Bear in mind a terminal railroad would not necessarily have had to build any track. My definition on the article was a strict legal definition and so I suspect that I'm probably right on both counts. Use your judgment. I'm not getting into edit wars on it. Again, thanks for asking ever so politely.Americasroof (talk) 03:09, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I have no interest in an edit war, either. I do realize I'd forgotten that the New Haven also operated over the PT&T into Penn Station. That said, while I was looking for legal definitions of "terminal railroad," I did find one in the Internal Revenue Code that may call it into question. This defines as a terminal railroad as a rail carrier, all of whose shareholders are rail carriers, and the primary business of which is providing terminal services to rail carriers and their shippers and passengers. However, the Code excepts from this definition railroads which are, except as a common parent corporation, members of an "affiliated group". My legal understanding starts to break down here, but I think what this means is that corporations that would otherwise be terminal railroads but which are >95% stock controlled by one parent corporation (which would apply to the PT&T, although not the New York Connecting) are not considered terminal railroads, at least not for tax purposes. I don't insist on this as being the definitive definition, but it fits with my intuitive understanding of the PT&T as a "paper corporation" to extend the PRR, versus the Washington Terminal Company as a "real" terminal railroad, owned 50% by PRR subsidiary PB&W and 50% by the B&O. Anyway, I'm going to leave things as they are, but you might want to think about working the Title 26 definition into the article. Best, Choess (talk) 14:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Holy cow you hit one out of the ballpark with that link! Spectacular thanks! I also agree that the legal terminology does get to be kind of thick. I suppose it would be better to cite a recent tax code rather than 1912 ;-) Railroad ownership is almost impossible to truly track down since they are set up with so many interlocking companies. In the terminal railroads I'm most familiar with, lots of folks always called the St. Louis Terminal as "Jay Gould's railroad" thus neglecting to dig into the structure (which was with railroads he controlled). Thanks again! Americasroof (talk) 02:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Now with that definiton I wonder whether the Chicago Belt is a true terminal railroad. Maybe it's time for a belt article.Americasroof (talk) 02:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

NRHPs on Long Island

Hi Americasroof -- Your pic of Thomas Moran House got noticed and promoted to List of NHLs in NY, and was mentioned by me at Milestones reached. I recognize your name from other pics of yours, of NHLs Fort Ticonderoga and Fort Crown Point.

For the heck of it, I today developed List of Registered Historic Places in Suffolk County, New York into table format to hold that pic and others. And i noted more photos by you as i added thumbs from existing articles. Please take a look at it, and be sure to check out the "Map of all coordinates" which goes to a Google map now showing locations of the vast majority of the Suffolk sites.

I see your note above in response to another wikiproject invitation, so i am not holding my breath, but i do want to say you would be very welcome at wp:NRHP. Whether or not you choose to be a member, please feel free to mention your new articles or your new photos in the announcement boxes on the project main page.

I am going, also, to try to add reference links to the NRHP nomination documents (text, photos, correspondence) for AN/FPS-35 the first article on the Suffolk list, and perhaps some others you created. They're great resources. I'd be happy to help provide same for any other articles you'd like to develop more. Feel free to post at wt:NRHP or to my talk page, anytime. Anyhow, keep up the good work! Cheers, doncram (talk) 02:08, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up! That may finally get me to complete the list for East Hampton. I was surprised to see there are only 142 in New York State. There has to be at least 10 or so in East Hampton Town alone. I added a link to the actual applications for the sites. Those applications are always spectacular. I added redirects to a couple articles -- Culloden and Cedar Point Lighthouse. As a note the "Haymarket Windmill" photo (which is one of mine) you have is actually the "Hook Windmill" (which is also on the register). BTW the Cedar Point Lighthouse is actually in East Hampton even though the application says Sag Harbor. Thanks for the invitation for the project and even though I've also written several articles in Missouri, I probably will follow my path of not joining projects since that would make me feel "obligated" taking the fun out of doing this. If somebody gets to the articles in East Hampton ahead of me but needs a photo, let me know and I am happy to do this. All of the sites are interesting. Americasroof (talk) 13:52, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Liberty Memorial Mall Kansas City

I noticed your interest in the subject. I am a Canadian probably in your age range, but in 1976 I was highly visible at the Republican National Convention in Kansas City joining the Youth International Party (Yippies) protesting in Penn Valley Park across the street from the Crown Center Hotel. The Kansas City Times chronicled my visit with a report headed 'Prophet Chooses Park for Vigil' on September 13, 1976 with a follow up on November 2, 1976 headed 'Prophet Plans Appeal of Conviction'.

Over two years ago someone I met on a job once, researched my talk and started a Wikipedia article on me. I just discovered it April 19 and evolved the article based on the MoS the Administrator who created it started. Gaining attention, a small group of editors removed 95% of the article to history as not being encyclopedic. I recused myself from any further edits to the article itself, hoping other editor/contributors might take over. I'm speculating because of the controversial nature of the information, no one has come forward to take whatever information in the history and discussions that can be made encyclopedic and restore it to the article.

On the positive side, my writing and discussion skills are being refined and honed and after weeks, my last entry concerned the Liberty Memorial. Hopefully, you might be interested in the discussions at the bottom of the page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ray_Joseph_Cormier Peace DoDaCanaDa (talk) 12:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

George Kessler

Salut! In the George Kessler article, you wrote « The initial 1893 plan called for for 9.85 miles of boulevards and 323.45 acres of parks ». Can this be correct? Only 9.85 miles (16.85 km)???? This is nothing! (smile!) When I looked at the Kansas City parks Dept. website, they state that The Paseo is 18.99 miles (30.56 km) alone. If your figure is correct, possibly it would be better to state the finished plan, which would be more impressive. Possibly, a sentence about the names of the most beautiful or longest boulevards and some park names would be very nice, and make Kessler's design seem more impressive. Also mention Kessler Park, maybe? (named for him - with Cliff Drive - closed for reconstruction now, but I walked it. Beautiful.) This is just a suggestion. You write very well. - - - - - On something else, I do sincerely hope that you have not been bothered by my photos replacing many of yours. It has been happening by chance, not as a plan. It is only that I have had wonderful blue sky and you did not, that is all. I do not replace any photos that have better angles or show more information. (I have added 191 photos of mostly aspects of Kansas City to Wikimedia Commons so far in six weeks. I just counted and it surprised me. My favorite building in Kansas City is Church of St. Francis Xavier by Barry Byrne. It is closed for remodeling, but I requested a tour by workers, who said yes. All of the windows are dark blue glass, and the interior is flooded with dark blue light only, except spotlights. Such an amazing feeling, and such a brilliant design. I took 150 photos of details!) I go to France in middle of September so my work on Kansas City articles will end in several weeks. It has been fun. Tchao! Charvex (talk) 07:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I have to get back and clean up the Kessler article. It is still very weak. If you have a link from the parks website you might include the additional info with a reference (your edits are always good too). I am often slow at getting back to articles and get too easily distracted.  ;-) I am totally floored by your photos. There are few if any other areas on Wikipedia that are so comprehensively well photographed as what you've done. As you saw I gave you a barnstar. You can manipulate it your pages in any manner you see fit. The fountain article is so great now. You even got the Eagle Scout fountain. I wanted to do something on it (as you probably know, the eagles came from Penn Station in New York). I could never quite picture the Kansas City Southern headquarters. It's actually better looking than what I expected. Your pictures always depict blue skies. Everytime I come back there's always a thick brown smog tinge. It's even worse than New York (where we very rarely get smog alert days). Anyway great job! Americasroof (talk) 15:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

P.S. If you want to see what is the most interesting building in the Kansas City area check out Community of Christ Temple and Temple Lot. I've done a lot of work on the Temple Lot article including the panorama which was not quite as clean as I would have liked. Americasroof (talk) 16:46, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I am going to Seattle in a few minutes so this is quick. I am very flattered by the barnstar, but I do not deserve it. I am not doing anything special. It is just for enjoyment. It is people like you who do all of the work who deserve "honors". - - Yes, I have been to Community of Christ for an organ recital; very very spectacular, and appropriate for a center of a religion. Maybe the religious feeling is missing? - I am not sure. The St. Francis Xavier is more meditative, and the movement between different spaces - very much like Frank Lloyd Wright - is more exhilirating (right word?). But both are brilliant. Thank you again for the kind regards. Amicalement. Charvex (talk) 17:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I just looked at Temple Lot. Outstanding compilation of a complicated subject. Bravo ! Charvex (talk) 17:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

WLNG and flight 800

The reference added is from the station web page, and is a primary source as a result. Is there a better reference.--Rtphokie (talk) 23:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for putting the infobox on the article and prodding for more sources (which I have added). It's a quirky station. You will find very few small town radio stations that have so many blue chip sources (e.g., New Yorker Magazine and New York Times). Thanks again. Americasroof (talk) 14:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Godspell

I tried to fit in that entire playbill.com string to show that the postponement has just been announced, but it ran out, glad you found it. JeanColumbia (talk) 15:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

New York's 1st congressional district

No problem......it took a little longer than expected. Martis's congressional atlas (my main reference) wasn't jiving for a couple of terms, so I had to get into the congressional bios on line. I think it works now. Pvmoutside (talk) 14:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

James Knox Taylor

		The Barnstar of High Culture
		Here, here! I award Americasroof this barnstar of high culture for the creation of James Knox Taylor. Nice job on filling a hole in the 'pedia. IvoShandor (talk) 20:17, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

--IvoShandor (talk) 20:17, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Good to see you back! You can thank John McCain for this. I was nosing around the Alaska Governor articles (e.g., the mansion) after his selection and just did a routine search on the architect. Then it was amazing how it connects to dots both in Missouri and New York (and for good measure even the old post office building in my hometown is one of his structures). I have a lot more on him I will try to post this week. It's on my other computer. Thanks again.Americasroof (talk) 20:30, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary, which wasn't included with your recent edit to Pan Am Railways. Thank you.

—BMRR (talk) 02:18, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Request for help

Salut! I must ask a favor because I do not know how to do this, and you are so knowledgeable... Would you please please rename an article for me? The current article title is Centrones, which is found in many old books, but it is now considered obsolete. The modern name is Ceutrones (with a « U »). I put a request on the talk page of the article here, but do not know if anyone will respond. (There are several links to other articles from this one that I know how to fix later.) - - - By the way, I am certain that there is a Wiki Help article about how to do this, but I could not find it. Perhaps you could direct me to it for future reference. I appreciate your help! - - - By the way, the weather in Kansas City has been cold and rainy; not good for photos. When it is nice again, I will take them for you. With best regards, Charvex (talk) 08:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I did it but it's very easy to do. Hit the "move" tab at the top of the article and fill in the new name. It will also take the "talk" page too. I want to start an article (and category) on Sports arenas developed in Kansas City but can't quite figure the right name for it. The category includes basically every modern major sports stadium in the United States since 1976. Do you have any suggestions? The architects in KC have some nickname for the phenomenon. Thanks. Americasroof (talk) 11:59, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance, and for your advice! - - I would keep your new article title as succinct, yet as emcompassing, as possible. Most arenas are not used only for sports. Also, the word « developed » is not necessary, unless your will also make an article for « proposed (unbuilt) » arenas. So, may I suggest Arenas in Kansas City or Arenas in the Kansas City Metropolitan Area (which parallels the title of the « fountains » article). - - Perhaps, a Redirect from « Stadiums in ... » may also be useful, since some people use these words interchangeably (correct word?). - - I think you will need to put a disclaimer (word?) at the top of your article that it only includes "Arenas Since 1976" otherwise other editors will add every arena ever built. - - - For your Category, perhaps « Arenas (or Stadiums) in the United States », with a disclaimer that it is only for active, modern arenas and stadiums is good. My two cents! Thanks again. Tchao! Charvex (talk) 21:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Mayors of Kansas City

Just thought I'd let you know that I'm done with my additions and enhancements to Mayor of Kansas City, Missouri. I don't have any references with which to add more information, nor am I inclined to look for references, not at least until I get List of mayors of St. Louis up to featured status. Hope my contributions give you a good place to continue adding to the article.--Millbrooky (talk) 19:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much for doing it. I hate setting up the political tables. I like having a text entry for the party since it allows you to sort. We might abbreviate later. Now that you've got the format I may make some subsantial changes in content as KC mayors served one-year terms and there's lots of partial terms so I will be adding several notes. That book I have is a really good source. The St. Louis mayor list is nicely done and deserves featured status! Also nice job on trying to assemble all the Missouri articles. Americasroof (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

• See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Anthony_Appleyard#Mayor_of_Kansas_City.2C_Missouri Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Fire Island/Great South Bay

Hey Roof - I haven't forgotten we have issues to discuss; I've been super busy. I really have no idea how I find the time to do everything (perhaps by working at 2:15 in the morning!). I'm writing right now, though, because a main project is to get my Fire Island photos uploaded on to Flickr (for the guys) and then to transfer them over to Commons. I still have more photos, but if you feel there are any that are a priority, you can either upload them yourself (they are all Creative Commons) or give me a list and I'm happy to do it. Here's what I uploaded so far. Dave --David Shankbone 06:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much! The photos are fabulous. The one I'm most interested is the Belvedere shot from the shot. I'm probably on the only one who goes to Fire Island to look at the buildings! ;-) Thanks again. Americasroof (talk) 13:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Inverted topography

I'm not sure that the famous Arizona Meteor Crater is an example of inverted topography. Inverted topography refers to a change in the elevation of a feature, e.g. a channel becomes a ridge. In the case of the crater and the other features you listed, it is the rock strata that have been repositioned. Cuppysfriend (talk) 22:44, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for being ever so polite. You can use your judgment. When I was there there was a geology group from California who were making a big deal about the inverted geology. Here's some googles that point to the phrase.here and here If I have misunderstood you might include a referenced sentence saying that it just refers to an elevation change and not the result of volcanoes or meteors. In any event my meteor crater probably has undue weight so I wouldn't mind if it were shortened to just a sentence. Thanks again for asking. Americasroof (talk) 02:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

After checking with a geology professor whom I know, I finally got around to writing a paragraph that I think correctly distinguishes between inversion and folding, the process that I think best describes the deformation of rock layers at the Arizona Meteor Crater:

Topographic inversion should not be confused with folding, a geological process in which rock strata shift position because of tectonic forces or kinetic impact. Inversion is something like molding and casting (see Sand casting), in which the feature remains stationary, but changes its elevation relative to the surrounding surface. In the image at right, channels on Mars became ridges through the processes of sedimentation and differential erosion.

What we really need now is an authoritative hard-copy reference on topographic inversion. Cheers. --Cuppysfriend (talk) 23:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again for being ever so polite. I will abide by what you decide. Americasroof (talk) 00:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Westport, Kansas

Thank you for the redirect from Westport, Kansas to Westport, Missouri,; however in order to avoid a double redirect, I have changed it to Westport, Kansas City. In addition, as Westport was not incorporated into Kansas City until 1899 "Experience Kansas City - Westport: Where The West Began". I have changed the piped reference at William Bent to Westport, Missouri, with the same result. --Bejnar (talk) 19:36, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I meant to do that. Somebody keeps moving the name around. BTW I may be wondering back in NM history soon. I keep wanting to create the Colfax County War. The Santa Fe Ring (which is a crappy article now and misleading) needs some work and I have on my todo. Americasroof (talk) 20:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Cimarron

I was in Cimarron on July 13-14, 2008. I had more pictures but Wikipedia killed them -- said they did not "fit" the "needs" of an encyclopedia. Right now, they are letting the Cree-Mee Drive-In stay, but it will probably be removed. Also, that photo is too dark, but I didn't realize it when I snapped it -- about 7 a.m. Do you know why a minister named "Tolby" was "assassinated", according to his tombstone in Mountainview Cemetery? He was 33.

Compliments are so rare on Wikipedia that I actually appreciate hearing from you. I also had some Philmont Ranch photos, two of which were good, but they were killed. I think it is good to photograph smaller places too, but there is not much support for that on the forum.

BTW, my older daughter lives off 85th Avenue on the Upper West Side -- loves it there.

Thanks, Billy Hathorn (talk) 20:36, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again. You posted on my user page and so I moved it here. Don't let the buzzards get you down. You can always photos via a gallery link on articles. I hope the Cree-Mee stays. It's an essential Cimarron landmark and a must stop when I was a Philmont Ranger 1971-73. Anyway I've written a few articles stemming from Philmont red links including Ted Turner's Vermejo Park Ranch which got a DYK. I want to get back to the Colfax County War which was sparked by the murder of Tolby in Cimarron Canyon. The war stemmed from owners of the Maxwell Land Grant trying to evict settlers/squatters. The war is kinda cool because it involves the Santa Fe Ring (which right now is a crappy article) and reaches a whole bunch of highly connected people. When I get to it, I might ask you to post the photo if you have it. Americasroof (talk) 20:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Allow me to jump in and explain the situation with the images. They weren't removed because they don't "'fit' the 'needs' of an encyclopedia". They were removed because they were improperly placed (e.g. left-aligned lead image, images causing sandwiching of text, images causing large amounts of whitespace, too many images for amount of text). I used to reposition and try to preserve as many images as possible, but Billy Hathorn would just add more images without adhering to WP:MOS. Images can be added back into the articles, provided they are added correctly. When the article has enough pictures, the rest should be placed in a gallery on Commons which can be linked to. Adding galleries directly to Wikipedia articles is discouraged. →Wordbuilder (talk) 20:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

The New York Times

Hi, please at least add references to the information that you added, though? Gary King (talk) 14:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The information was referenced. Americasroof (talk) 14:49, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The following is not:

The paper moved to 1475 Broadway in 1904 in area called Long Acre Square which was renamed Times Square. The top of the building is the site of New Year's Eve tradition of lowering a lighted ball. One of the most distinctive aspects of the building was the electronic news zipper in which headlines crawled around the outside of the building. The zipper is still in use although not operated by the Times. In 1913 an Annex was built at 229 West 43rd Street. With expansions it would become the headquarters. One Times Square, was sold in 1961.

Gary King (talk) 14:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, the "Headquarters Buildings" section has "Times v. Sullivan" and "The Pentagon Papers" as subsections of it now, even though they are not related. Anyways, I'll go fish for some references now. Gary King (talk) 14:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The physical history of the Times needs to be in the article (e.g., its downtown origins). Feel free to clean it up as you see fit but make sure the physical history remains. I usually shy away from edits to heavily edited articles that tend to get loaded with rants. You clearly have a track record of cleaning up this stuff. Thanks. Americasroof (talk) 14:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed I do. I normally fix it myself but I also like to let editors know about their edits so that they can remember some things for future edits. Gary King (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the organization. Some paragraphs still need references, however. Also, I still don't quite think that an entire section dedicated to the newspapers headquarters is really necessary; it's certainly by far the shortest section in the article. Gary King (talk) 15:13, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Some of the building history was there before I added material. I put another reference. I still find it absolutely amazing that this article went for so long without any reference whatsoever to its Nassau Street roots. Times Buildings are very important aspects of New York architecture. I wondered in here because I was working on an article on the 43rd Street building. Physical plant stories are usually relatively uncontroversial as the facts are straight forward. But in all this I've been surprised about the basics in all the buildings are missing.Americasroof (talk) 15:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I merged the headquarters information back into History. Please don't change it again. I added some of the new information that you added. Gary King (talk) 15:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikis Take Manhattan scheduled for October 4

The Wikis Take Manhattan photo event is scheduled for next Saturday, October 4. I hope you can make it, and bring a friend (or two)!--Pharos (talk) 01:17, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the invite and especially thanks for the tremendous effort on the photo list. I'm out of town on weekends but I might take a stab at some photoless articles -- particularly those in midtown.Americasroof (talk) 18:23, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

DuMont Building

Hi Americasroof,

You've recently added an image to DuMont Television Network. Thanks very much for the image! Best wishes and happy editing, Firsfron of Ronchester 05:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I meant to post it last April but got diverted. I will try to post an article on the building itself. It's a 42-story, 542 foot high building that probably very few people have heard of. The tower jumps out at you of course. Somewhere in the distant history, I thought I read somewhere that the broadcast tower was actually not associated with DuMont but I can't find that. It certainly looks like it was associated. It's a pretty amazing dinosaur in midtown Manhattan. Thanks again. Americasroof (talk) 13:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

The broadcast tower itself was used by DuMont, according to Bergmann (2002). The building itself was not built by DuMont, and was only used by them for ten years, but according to Ingram, is still listed as the "DuMont Building" in the World Almanac. There are a few other buildings associated with DuMont in the area, including the DuMont Telecenter (now the Fox Broadcasting Center). Thanks again for the great photo, Americasroof. Awesome. :) Firsfron of Ronchester 20:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I posted the article. It took a lot longer than I expected as I chased down various paths. Now it's opened a whole can of new articles (e.g., its architect) that need writing not to mention the 67th Street broadcast center. At the very least I will try to get a photo of it also. I'm sure it is significantly altered. It's amazing how work can be fun! Americasroof (talk) 03:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I expanded the article a bit and nominated the article for inclusion at Did You Know? This is a building that I probably passed thousands of times and never knew about its history. Thanks for creating the article. Alansohn (talk) 03:54, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

This article is off to a great start! I'd love to see articles or a photo of the 67th Street facility. My hat is off to both of you fine gentlemen. I love ancient television history, and you can't get much older than DuMont. :) Firsfron of Ronchester 04:40, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the inspiration and follow up!Americasroof (talk) 16:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Edith Head

Regarding http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/edith-head/ - I'm not sure if this meets the Wikipedia:RS requirements. The U.S. Government sources for the other two guys you cited are perfectly good. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

• I decided to use a new reference, the Philadelphia Inquirer. BTW, while it is a "pay required" source (I found that it references searchlight by using Google News), I can use pay/registration sources as inline citations. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the added source. There's several sources out there. Searchlight has an unusual number of notable people for such a small town. Americasroof (talk) 02:34, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Branson Airport

I copied the infobox from the Springfield-Branson National Airport page. That might explain the second runway. I did notice another instance of the infobox saying that there were two and I fixed it earlier I think. I found the ICAO code here: [1], which is incidentally how I found out about the airport in the first place. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 19:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. The sourced BBG code adds yet another level of mystery to the airport. There's some real basic stuff that you would think should be in place for a commercial airport set to open in less than a year. Thanks again. Americasroof (talk) 02:32, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Unphotographed National Historic Sites to the Photo List

Add as many as you want to the list, but please at least create a one-line stub beforehand for each one you add. And try to format them with the addresses and cross-streets, as I have done.

And it would be OK if you cross out the Midtown one's you've taken, but please do me a favor and postpone further photo-trips till after the event :)

We're going to print out the final list Wednesday at 10 PM, so it would be great if you could do your project ASAP. Thanks for your help!--Pharos (talk) 21:03, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. There are too many to assemble on short order. Next time. Again, many, many, many thanks for this. Americasroof (talk) 16:05, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

You know, I don't actually need the articles by tonight. If you could add them to the list (so we can print it out), and fill out the redlinks before Saturday, that would work just as well. Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 16:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks you have much more patience for all this than I do. What I would like to do is add the photos in thumbnail to the lists. The articles will take ages to create (even though almost all the applications are online). I intended to list them last night but I got tied up uploading the day's catch. I have to label them right away or I forget (I've had to redo a huge batch I did this spring because I waited too long). I will try to reassemble something. What's your deadline? Americasroof (talk) 16:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

The deadline for printing is 10 PM tonight. The deadline for article-creating is before Saturday. If there aren't separate articles, that would complicate matters, and we'd have to discuss it at the meeting tonight what to do. Thanks.--Pharos (talk) 17:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. There's now a ton of choices. This is a spectacular exercise. It's really useful to consolidate the requested photos. Have a great time! Americasroof (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it wasn't integrated into the main list, and with the deadline approaching, there just wasn't the time for me to do it. We should do it at the next event, though.--Pharos (talk) 19:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

While I of course disagree and would have done it but didn't want to interfere with your edits and so kept it separate, I do understand. Best of luck with a worthy project. Americasroof (talk) 19:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The ultimate problem was not rejecting your sites because they didn't have articles, but just that they weren't sorted in the same geographical categories as the rest of the list. We really did have a quite limited time schedule at the end. The event was a big success, though (much bigger than last time!), so no worries your work will go to naught, as we're definitely doing this again. Thanks for your help!--Pharos (talk) 16:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for DuMont Building

On 3 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article DuMont Building, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cirt (talk) 23:20, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! You made my day!Americasroof (talk) 14:55, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

High School of Art and Design -- new photo? but alumni have been removed!!!

Friday night 10/3/08 11:38pm

Are you the person who added the new photo to the page for the High School of Art and Design? If so, I am curious why you chose to update the page and where you got the photo. It's fine, but it's a surprise. I'm the recently retired (and long-time) Art and Design Alumni Association president. I came across this page in June 2006 and added a photo, revised the copy and added numerous notable alumni to what was just a list of 3 at the time. I have been adding notable alumni (and some faculty) on since. I also keep an eye on the page.

Who removed the many notable alumni from 1960 (after Calvin Klein) to 1969? What the hell happened to them? I can't find this in the "history" list of the page's edits. Please get back to me if you can.

Thank you, Yvonne Fitzner (former alumni president, now Director of PR) Yvonnefitz (talk) 03:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Interesting tone on your comments. I was in the neighborhood taking photos of NHS sites for another wiki article. I snapped the school because I find that a lot of high schools are missing photos and I found that this high school doesn't have a contemporary photo. The one that is on the article sooner or later is going to be deleted because the rationale says its source is unknown and further that it does not belong to the poster. I only added a photo I didn't do the other edits. You're going to have to look at the edit history to find what you're missing. Americasroof (talk) 03:59, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

TASE

I'm not sure it has ever perfectly worked, except for going to the search results and then allowing one to click on it. I hope someone with more knowledge then me eventually comes a long and sees if it is possible to make it like the other direct stock ticker templates. I doubt replacing it with the NYSE website's path will work. I hope this helps. Epson291 (talk) 06:09, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I got it going to the right location but it's not displaying the ticker symbol. Americasroof (talk) 02:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Scribner Buildings

Hey, thanks for your note. It's very nice to be appreciated. And I had noted your adding pictures (and perhaps developing articles?) on a regular basis. I've been working on NRHP list-tables for all the NYS counties for some time now, and am happy to note other wikipedians becoming active in uploading pics into these tables. Credit for the 14th-59th Manhattan list also goes to Dmadeo who split it out and developed it a lot. Also, I am using a neat NRHP county-table-generator provided by Elkman which does a lot of the work upfront.

About the two Scribner buildings which you documented are in the NYS OPRHP system, I was both impressed with your diligence and also concerned that indicated a problem in the NRHP table generator. However, upon reading the actual application document for the missing one at NYS, it turns out the Charles Scribner's Sons Building was nominated but was not listed on the NRHP due to owners' objections. It's certainly a notable building, and well-documented from the NRHP application alone, so I started an article for it for you to add pics into. While i only barely began to add some detail from the nomination, there's almost enough text in the article already for it to be DYK-eligible, so if you want to add a pic and put it up for DYK by all means feel free. I also started an article for Scribner Building.

Thanks, and enjoy! doncram (talk) 04:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I see you have articles already on both. I will post a photo on the other building too. I will try to write articles on several of the photos I've posted. There's a little mop up on 14th to 59th for photos and it should be done and my writing articles will be my winter project. I'm going to try to finish off all the eastern Suffolk County list also. The online applications really make the articles easy. It of course gets interesting when you hit the district which sometimes involve hundreds of properties. I will talk to you later about handling a Multiple Listing (the one in East Hampton just compiled what was already there but also added 20 other buildings which don't appear on our lists otherwise). Finding the eastern Suffolk ones is sometimes a challenge since they are often VERY inaccessible and not viewable from the road. I'm probably going to take kayak out to get a shot of Briar Patch on Georgica Pond in East Hampton as well as Maycroft in Sag Harbor. Thanks again. This is so much fun! Americasroof (talk) 14:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum

Hi Americasroof. As a point of information, why did you think it was appropriate for you to remove the fishing template from Catskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum? --Geronimo20 (talk) 09:25, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

The template does not link to the article. Americasroof (talk) 14:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Where does this rule come from? Is it a Wikipedia guideline or is it perhaps a rule you have just made up? --Geronimo20 (talk) 19:42, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I see you have been grizzling elsewhere about articles "loaded with templates...", "lacking in common sense...", "being just an advertisement for other articles...", and (gasp) having to "grit [your] teeth and let the template creep continue willy nilly... " Really. There was ONE well thought out fishing navigation template on an article about fishing. Do everyone a favour – stick to facts and get a life... --Geronimo20 (talk) 12:57, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I was making a good faith effort to get an answer to your question (and to see if I was wrong about the link here guideline requirement for templates). Apparently there is no such requirement (even though I think there should be). Americasroof (talk) 14:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

As an interested observer, I'll restore the template. --CliffC (talk) 16:11, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth the article is nearly 100 percent a copyright violation lifted word for word from here and here. On that basis it can be deleted without debate. I was starting to make good faith edits to save the article and make a good faith query about Wikipedia policy over one of my edits when the personal attacks started. I usually shy away from articles overly personalized and overly protected. I do this for fun and not for personal attacks. I was trying to clean up the whole Livingston Manor/Willomec/Beaverkill/Rosecoe articles (which are amazingly missing the fishing component) after visiting there last week (of the parties involved I'm the only one actually from New York). If I can get some assurance I won't be personally attacked I will continue the edits otherwise I will have to abandon the efforts and will notify administrators of the copyright violations. Americasroof (talk) 17:09, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

BTW I was not attacking the template. I was disagreeing with its placement on an article to which it did not link (and said as such in my edit summary). I disagree with template creep. I made a query whether such a policy existed (one upon a time somebody deleted a non-linking template that I had placed on an article and that's how I became aware of the issue). I may or may not try to push for such a policy. That's a different matter. Again, I strongly object to personal attacks over good faith efforts. Americasroof (talk) 17:32, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I was quoting what you actually said, which didn't seem reasonable in the context. I guess I was also overreacting because of the direction the discussion you were having was taking. This was a clear attack on the template itself including suggestions that you dismember it. However, you yourself seem to be overreacting here and elsewhere, and implying all sorts of most unpleasant things about me. Anyway, let's bury this hatchet and assume good faith on both sides. I apologise for clearly upsetting you, and assure you that any contributions you make to articles about fishing will be warmly welcomed. --Geronimo20 (talk) 19:49, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Before we waste any more time with this let's definitely bury the hatchet. I probably should have been clearer in my pet peeve about templates. It's not your template I'm aggravated with it's the non-linking issue. Since there's no policy, it's a matter of taste on whether they stay or go. I did learn that from the process. I will probably make some major changes to the Catskill article since it's nearly 100 percent copyright violation. I won't delete the template though. I appreciate all your work.Americasroof (talk) 23:19, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Temple Lot

Temple Lot
Efforts halted in 1830s
Official website
Additional information
Announced	April 1829
Groundbreaking	August 1831, by Joseph Smith (land dedicated)
Location	Independence, Missouri, U.S.
Geographic coordinates	39°5′27.1068″N 94°25′40.7604″W
Visitors' center	Yes Yes
Notes	Site Dedicated August 1, 1831 when cornerstones laid by Joseph Smith. The plat for the City of Zion (Independence, Missouri) originally called for 24 temples at the center of the city. A temple has never been built at this location because the temple's site, as designated by Joseph Smith, is occupied by a Latter Day Saint movement denomination known as the Church of Christ (Temple Lot).
()

I disagree - the template does not imply any ownership - it links to a non-LDS website, etc. Exactly how does it imply LDS ownership? - this same template is used on Kirtland temple (and has been for several years) --Trödel 21:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that Template:Infobox LDS Temple links to LDS-specific practices many of which I understand are specifically opposed by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) which actually owns Temple Lot. I appreciate your quick reversion while we discuss. For what it's worth, I'm not Mormon/LDS/etc. I'm a Missouri history buff and I wrote much of the history of Temple Lot as well as posted the photos. Americasroof (talk) 21:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you're seeing the same thing that I'm seeing but there aren't links to LDS specific practices - the only links on the page are those to Joseph Smith, Jr (with whom I believe the Church of Christ shares a history, a link to edit the data - and a link to the official website. Are we talking about the same template? I've added it to this discussion --Trödel 22:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to wrestle to the ground on this. I just know from doing edits to that article you really have to tip toe around some very touchy areas (including if you look at the discussion history there are comments from somebody who identifies himself as the fellow who torched the building -- resulting in the scariest edits I've seen on Wikipeida!) I don't entirely understand the way the table is structured. It strikes me as efficient since you ony have to enter the info once for it to appear in multiple spots. However whenever I see LDS I know there's potential trouble. I also know there such major differences between the divisions that there's no way the LDS (or RLDS) will ever acquire the property as long as Temple Lot remains viable. The upshot is I won't resist it for now. But there may or may not be some other hot opinions. Americasroof (talk) 23:11, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the warning - I reverted myself when you objected (pending our discussion) - based on the above I'll propose it on the talk page first. That sounds pretty scary - reading from the person who torched the building. There have been a few things on Wikipedia that keep me from editing more frequently - and things like that are the reason.

The data template idea is unique - I haven't seen it used elsewhere on wikipedia - and I think it is very useful because it was a pain to remember to update everything. Hope you like it - and it makes sense to edit the info. Anyway - ttyl --Trödel 01:43, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Your rants

BTW - I totally agree with your comments about Wikimedia Commons the admins there are extremely rude (mostly due to the use of templates for nearly all messages). From my POV they are trying to delete things rather than trying to keep things i.e. their focus is wrong. --Trödel 22:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I was probably cutting off my nose to spite my face. My photos are still winding up in Commons and I don't have the easy way to watch them. So I guess I'm going back. Anyway, thanks for the support. Americasroof (talk) 23:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Were I not so busy with my own poor little pix, my attitude would be, if you can't beat'em, join'em and become a Commons admin. Hey, I'll vote for you if you run! Jim.henderson (talk) 21:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess I was swimming upstream on Commons. I sure wish everything could be unified. The folks on wikipedia for the most part tend to bend over backwards to be polite. But Commons has no community.

I agree with your comments on the Wikipedia Takes Manhattan project but do appreciate you're taking on the considerable effort of organizing and cleaning it up. I too was disappointed with the quality of the photos. A lot looked like camera phone photos. Perhaps some (most) was the result of non-Wikipedians who had no stake in the articles. While the idea of taking photos to earn a dinner with Jimbo sounds good on paper, the competition flies in the face of the Wikipedia culture where you do things for no reward other than the joy of doing it. If I were organizing it, I would get away from the competition aspect but would make specific assignments and the let the photographers do the uploading rather than shifting the workload to the organizers.

We still have to get together. I'm in Hell's Kitchen and available most evenings Monday through Thursday. Americasroof (talk) 14:36, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Commons has very few Admins, like fewer than a tenth as many as WP, from which I surmize

1. They are overworked,
2. It wouldn't be difficult to get elected, and
3. A new Admin with a different attitude could shift the tone considerably. This was a busy week for me, but any evening next week is open except maybe Wednesday. I assume you are thinking of a dinner meeting at a local restaurant, which is fine by me and the closer to 50th and 9th the better. Also there's a meeting, probably dozen or two people incuding more than one who worked the "Wikis Take Manhattan" project next Sunday, umm, where's that template? {{| class="infobox" style="width:250px"

New York City Meetup Next: Sunday November 16th, Columbia University area Last: 6/01/2008

}

Yeah, that's it except I somehow screwed up the format. Anyway it's Sunday Nov 16 at 2:30 PM at the Physics building of Columbia where one of the board members or whatever they're called can get us into a conference room. And dinner afterwards, which on previous occasions was jolly and informative. Especially if we can round up several Wikiphotographers at one dinner table. Anyway, during the week is good locally, or Sunday in Morningside Heights, or both will be good for me. Jim.henderson (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I could do it Wednesday or Thursday evening next week. I'm at 51st and Ninth so anything in the hood would be o.k. I look forward to seeing you. Americasroof (talk) 17:31, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

My first eleven months in New York City I lived at 56th and 9th. Since then, I've been East Village all the way. By the way, I'm particularly proud of having written and revamped the East Village (Manhattan) article, from the maps to the photos to the text. It's not 100% me, but close. --David Shankbone 16:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I migrated the other way. My first year I spent in the East Village (a period I always consider the happiest of my life). BTW I keep meaning to get the Cherry Grove photo but seem to get easily distracted.Americasroof (talk) 18:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I keep meaning to move it! Oy. I'm photographing at the No on 8 protest at the Mormon Temple tomorrow - I'll try to do the move when I upload those.

Oops! Should have got back to you sooner. Too much fun with my own pix. Sure; Thursday is better than Wednesday and it's been a couple years since I had a good Puerto Rican meal so let's go to Old San Juan on the northwest corner or 51/9 at 6PM unless half an hour earlier to an hour later is better for you. Or Uncle Nick's or the Indian place south of that, or across the Avenue to Hallo Berlin. I eat anything that's not fast enough to escape. Jim.henderson (talk) 16:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Thursday at 6:30 at Old San Juan would be great. I'm tall.Americasroof (talk) 18:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

All righty, see you tomorrow evening in the rain. We can stand side by side to compare height; I'm more likely to win that one than a photo quality contest and will wear my black baseball cap and white beard. And of course any readers who want to join us will be welcome. Jim.henderson (talk) 17:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Enjoyed meeting you. We have to do this more often. Americasroof (talk) 20:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

RE:Bob Griffin

That article was one sentence on some Family Guy character; feel free to make it into something about a notable subject, though! :) Master of Puppets _{Call me MoP! :)} 23:11, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!Americasroof (talk) 23:16, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Bike ride

The Sunday afternoon NY Wiki Chapter meeting was very interesting and pleasant, and somewhat informative. I've got Thursday off from work and am thinking of joining a daytime group ride from Central Park to Coney Island and back, or an evening astronomy lecture in Chelsea, or showing you my folding bicycle, or two or even all of the above if you want to come along to Coney on the little bke and I'll ride my big one. Jim.henderson (talk) 07:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Terminal railroad

Terminal railroads are not usually owned by larger carriers. The companies wholly or partially controlled by Class I railroads can be seen at User:NE2/Class I subsidiaries. Most of the companies in Category:Terminal railroads are not in there. For instance, the Corpus Christi Terminal Railroad and Talleyrand Terminal Railroad are owned by shortline holding company Genesee and Wyoming. You're also reading my TRRA edit incorrectly; I never said it's partially owned by KCS, just that the KCS connects with it. --NE2 02:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

The article is convuluted now. I wrote the article to explain the ownership of huge terminal railroads in KC and St. Louis as well as the ownership of Union Stations. I even gave a specific referenced definition (which you deleted). Since railroads have consolidated the mutual ownership has changed. If you want to change the article you could convert it to just "switching railroads" but it is important to include a subsection on terminal railroads. This should have been discussed on the talk page before making such a sweeping change. Americasroof (talk) 03:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

We already have an article at joint railway that covers that concept. As I explained above, and you didn't seem to read, terminal railroads are not necessarily jointly owned. --NE2 04:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

And you're ignoring the references. Americasroof (talk) 06:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

The only reference that supports your view is the IRS definition, which is one used "for purposes of this section". It's just a term the IRS used in lieu of making up a new term like "jointly-owned terminal railroad". Neither of the other references says anything about ownership. (The trains.com glossary is down, but I found it in Google's cache.) --NE2 00:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

NYPIRG and Straphangers Campaign

Hello, Americasroof,

I am impressed by your many contributions to wikipedia, and congradulations on your Barnstars! In regard to your reverts to my NYPIRG edits and Straphangers Campaign edits I encourage you to consider the following: First off, I am not really too concerned with the fact that the source is not verifiable online, as I am sure that further research could identify a source for it somewhere. However, name dropping Obama does nothing to tell us about the organization. He did not found or lead the organization so his involvement would be more appropriate in the Barack Obama encyclopedia entry. For example, if Obama had worked for the Post Office would that be something that should be in an article about the Post Office? What if he had been a member of Amway- should that be mentioned in an Amway article? What if he drove a Chevy Nova? Should he be included in the entry about Chevy Nova's? While many are fond of Obama, name dropping trivial facts about him into encyclopedia articles is just boastful. Jonnyhottrod (talk) 00:22, 21 December 2008 (UTC)JonnyHottrod

It is referenced by amNY which is a free daily newspaper circulated in New York City by Newsday. The article is definitely weak but all you are doing is taking referenced material off the table rather than adding anything of value to the articles. It is also a flag when almost the only edits aer concerning this one topic.Americasroof (talk) 00:50, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

But the referencing is not the issue. I'm only removing weakly referenced material that doesn't belong there. Clearly, it is just trivia!Jonnyhottrod (talk) 02:43, 21 December 2008 (UTC)jonnyhotrod

Your map on IFD

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Chadron-ne-map.gif, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. I've nominated it for deletion, not because anything is wrong, but because I believe that it's been made obsolete by a Commons image, File:Detailed map of Chadron, Nebraska.png, which is taken from the same Census Bureau source but displays better. Thank you. Nyttend (talk) 13:52, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the courtesy and taking the time to let me know. I don't what happened to those .gifs. They sure seem to have suddenly started looking bad. Thanks again. Americasroof (talk) 20:22, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

In appreciation of your excellent work

		The Special Barnstar
		Thank you for your successful work in strengthening the content and character of Wikipedia. Keep up the excellent work! Ecoleetage (talk) 04:38, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow what a surprise! Thank you so much! Americasroof (talk) 04:44, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

My pleasure. Happy 2009! Ecoleetage (talk) 04:57, 31 December 2008 (UTC)