Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/Review

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The review department of the Chicago WikiProject is the project's main forum for conducting detailed reviews—both formal and informal—of particular articles and other content within its scope.

This department provides a convenient collection of Chicago content currently undergoing featured content reviews outside the project:

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Joseph Berrios[edit]

Benet Academy[edit]

Previous peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to eventually nominate it for FA. This article has already had a peer review and recently passed GA. I would appreciate suggestions on how to make it more comprehensive and how to improve the prose.

Thanks, Benny the mascot (talk) 19:42, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I am sorry this is taking me so long - will review in the next 24 hours. Sorry, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:02, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

No need to rush...I have other ways of keeping myself busy. :) Good luck on your FAC, by the way. Benny the mascot (talk) 03:15, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Thanks for being so understanding - this looks pretty good to me, so here are some mostly nit-picky suggestions for improvement.

  • One thing that is sometimes hard to do is to provide context to the reader about things the author is familiar with. I am fairly familiar with the Chicago area, but was not that sure where Lisle was. A brief description would help (x miles west of the Loop / downtown Chicago) or a map with a dot would help too.
  • I also was confused by mentions of the college, but no real resolution on what happened to it - it took me a little searching here, but I assume it is what is now known as Benedictine University in Lisle. The article mentions the university as the site of buildings The St. Procopius monks decided on March 12, 1900, to build a new college[20] on the site of present-day Benedictine University at the southwest corner of Maple and College Avenues.[12], and in terms of a scholarship at the academy, but I think it needs to explicitly say what happened to the college after the academy split. I realize that this article on the Academy, so it need not be a lot of detail, but some is needed.
  • The map is nice, but I am guessing the Census does not show buildings (only streets and water), so the source for those needs to be given explicitly - this will be checked at FAC.
    • I've already provided sourcing on the Commons page. Benny the mascot (talk) 01:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
  • The capitalization of College and Academy by themselves seems a bit odd, though it is done consistently as far as I can tell. The Wikipedia:MOS#Institutions says if it is the generic word (college, academy) by itself it should not be capitalized.
    • I fixed the ones I could find. Let me know if I missed any. Benny the mascot (talk) 01:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
  • The lead just seems sparse to me - especially the second and third paragraphs. My rule of thumb is to make sure every header is in the lead somehow - are Demographics and the Christmas Drive there?
    • I mentioned the Christmas Drive a little bit, but the Demographics section is already somewhat covered in the lead. ("Benet's average ACT test score has exceeded statewide and national averages, and more than 99 percent of students have gone on to college after graduation")
  • The language is decent but I noticed a few rough spots reading - I will try and come back and point some more out soon, here is one to start
    • Classes began on March 2, when Rev. Procopius Neuzil taught two remedial high school students in two small rooms at 704 Allport Street for four months. FOur months in one day? Wow that's concentrated teaching! Perhaps Classes began on March 2, and for the next four months Rev. Procopius Neuzil taught two remedial high school students in two small rooms at 704 Allport Street. would be better. I am also not sure students can be remedial - I thought classes were? Could be wrong
      • Sentence replaced with a small revision regarding the usage of "remedial". Benny the mascot (talk) 01:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:46, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback! Benny the mascot (talk) 01:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
More from Ruhrfisch

I will try to point out language that needs work here, as well as any other issues that I notice

  • Lead It was founded in 1887 as the all-boys St. Procopius College and Academy by Benedictine monks in Chicago, who also operated the St. Joseph Bohemian Orphanage, which along with St. Procopius later moved to Lisle, approximately 25 miles (40 km) west of Chicago.[6] Could this sentence be split into two? As it is now it is quite long and complex - I would start the new sentence after the word orphanage. Also could the year(s) for the move(s) to Lisle be added to provide context?
  • Capitalization of college? The orphanage closed in 1956 to make room for St. Procopius Academy, which then separated from the College in 1957. (In Internet Explorer you can search for a word and it highlights all the matching terms in yellow - might be worth checking caps on college and academy this way)
  • Tweak sentence Sacred Heart merged with St. Procopius Academy in 1967 on the St. Procopius campus to establish Benet Academy [on the St. Procopius campus].
  • Also, any idea where the name "Benet" came from? a ha - here it says Benet is an English form of Benedict
  • Unclear Benet's performing arts program stages multiple musicals ... I think it would be clearer to say Benet's performing arts program stages a musical annually... perhaps saying since when
  • Need to be consistent on names - in the text it is "Reverend John Nepomucene Jaeger of the Order of St. Benedict..." but the image caption is just "Abbot Nepomucene Jaeger" (no John). I also wonder since St John of Nepomuk is not well known in the US, if a link would be in order?
  • Suggested reoganization Reverend John Nepomucene Jaeger of the Order of St. Benedict was the pastor of the parish[.] , which served approximately 16,000 to 20,000 parishioners. Chicago at that time had the largest Czech population of any other city in the world outside of Prague and Vienna. Roughly 50,000 Czech immigrants were served by the three Czech parishes of Chicago, which included [16,000 to 20,000 parishioners at] St. Procopius.
  • The source says they were teaching high school classes then, so I would clarify that in Only a two-year [high school] program was offered at the time; the college offered its first four-year high school program in 1904.[9]
  • Might flow more smoothly as The first Bohemian abbot in the United States, Abbot Jaeger[, the first Bohemian abbot in the United States,] founded a Bohemian monastic community in 1894...
  • What does better atmosphere mean? The college and academy continued to grow in Chicago; in 1896 the Abbey bought the 104-acre (42 ha) Morris Neff farm in Lisle to gain more space and a better atmosphere.[9] Cleaner air than in the city?
  • Since I am assuming that the present Benedictine University still is on the site because they are the re-named St Procopius College, I think that needs to be made clearer in this: The St. Procopius monks decided on March 12, 1900, to build a new college[21] on the site of present-day Benedictine University at the southwest corner of Maple and College Avenues.[13]
  • OK I am stopping the rough spots here. I think this would benefit from a copy edit before FAC. There are a few other things I noticed:
  • What makes Remembering Lisle a reliable source? See WP:RS
  • The alt text for the mascot should desribe it as a bird, not a redwing (there might be those who think of the Detroit Redwings or even Red Wing Shoes

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 00:42, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice! I've fixed most of the issues you've brought up; I just need to get that copyedit completed. Benny the mascot (talk) 19:59, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

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Illinois[edit]

Chuck's Gun Shop & Range[edit]

Chuck's Gun Shop & Range (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable. Fbdave (talk) 20:25, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

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Noteable enough for the Guardian[1], New York Times[2], The Washington Post[3], and ABC7 Chicago[4]

I could probably find more if I actually dig

  1. ^ Guarino, Mark (2014-09-12). "Chicago priest 'receives death threats' after gun control rally outside store". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2017-10-22. 
  2. ^ Davey, Monica (2013). "Strict Gun Laws in Chicago Can’t Stem Fatal Shots". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2017-10-22. 
  3. ^ Thompson, Cheryl W. (2010-11-22). "The story of two guns that killed police officers". ISSN 0190-8286. Retrieved 2017-10-22. 
  4. ^ Holmes, Evelyn (2015-06-06). "Protesters take aim at 'bad apple' gun dealers at Chuck's Gun Shop in Riverdale". ABC7 Chicago. Retrieved 2017-10-22. 

Victor Grigas (talk) 23:17, 22 October 2017 (UTC) Just dug - found a bunch more sources and added them to the article - Breitbart, Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun-Times. Victor Grigas (talk) 23:37, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Allen Vandever[edit]

Allen Vandever (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Purely WP:PROMO and not notable. Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 23:43, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete none of the sources count as truly reliable sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:32, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
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  • Delete I trimmed the article of the Blogspot and Eventbrite 'references', and it is now clear that htis is non-notable artist based on the refs. The promotional writng and the hyped style don't help.96.127.242.251 (talk) 06:26, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Michael Hicks (game designer)[edit]

Michael Hicks (game designer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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His game may be notable but there's nothing to show that he himself is. The only significant/reliable mention is the article in The Southern but that alone does not satisfy WP:BIO, the impact of the game is not significant enough for notability by association. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 08:43, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

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Hi, while writing this I found some good TV sources on him in the Midwest. I didn’t include them because I thought the Wired (magazine) interview and game-specific sources were a better fit.
KTVI in St. Louis aired this interview: http://fox2now.com/2015/02/08/jefferson-county-man-creates-video-game-for-sony-playstation-4/
KFVS-TV in Cape Girardeau, MO aired this on him: http://www.kfvs12.com/story/28161624/illinois-video-game-creator-is-beating-the-odds
WSIL-TV in Southern Illinois aired this: https://web.archive.org/web/20150112030347/http://www.wsiltv.com/news/local/Local-Game-Developer-Signs-With-Sony-287990851.html
Also, here’s another newspaper article on him: http://www.register-news.com/news/hicks-signs-game-deal-with-sony/article_a698376b-d7a1-5a1f-9007-eeb2fd338c0a.html
I think these sources fit what you’re asking. If they look good to you I’ll include them on the page. Indiestation (talk) 17:33, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
I do think those sources are a better fit for proving notability. I'll defer to others' opinion on this as I haven't encountered this sort of case where local news is used to prove notability rather than the game journalist press, but it does seem more reliable than the previous sources.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:12, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:56, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep Seems to pass WP:GNG to me. Govvy (talk) 20:19, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Young Pappy[edit]

Young Pappy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Still fails at WP:NOTABILITY and WP:MUSICBIO. No effort into making a page about a unsigned artist with little popularity, whatsoever. BJPlaya10 (talk) 18:53, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

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UTC)

  • Keep has significant coverage in reliable sources, there are plenty in Google news search shown above (it isn't necessary to reproduce them) the Vice article here is significant coverage about his whole life not just his shooting and states that he was famous before he was killed with over a million and half downloads on soundcloud so WP:BIO1E does not apply.Another source about his life here. Previous discussions have hinted at sockpuppetry so hopefully that wont happen here. Atlantic306 (talk) 19:14, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete - the only significant coverage is due to his death, so WP:BIO1E is pretty spot on. Even if those sources go more in-depth into his life, they were still done primarily to cover the single event. There is only in-depth coverage from 2 independent sources, both are primarily about his shooting. Onel5969 TT me 21:34, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment google news shows plenty of coverage, more than enough for WP:GNG and the Vice and DNA articles are much more than routine reporting Atlantic306 (talk) 21:52, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete - "Google news shows plenty of coverage": except Wikipedia is not news and news reports are treated as primary sources. He is known for one event that was covered briefly in late May but had no long-term impact. He certainly does not pass the general notability guideline when he falls under what Wikipedia is not; hence there are no legitimate claims supporting notability or reason to keep this article in the encyclopedia.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 06:23, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete - fail WP:BIO, and WP:GNG . notability not found Samat lib (talk) 13:02, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment the Vice article and DNA article are not news reporting and are secondary sources based on his musical career and likely would not have been published if he was only known for his shooting so WP:GNG is passed WP:NOTNEWS refers to trivial events which this is not. Atlantic306 (talk) 16:41, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep Since when do we define newspapers and magazines as primary sources. They are and always have been secondary sources. They are the type of WP:RS that we seek. You can't just delete something by suddenly changing the rules.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:59, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
  • TonyTheTiger this page is very enlightening on the issue: "Most reliable sources in academia, however, name typical contemporary newspaper stories as primary sources". There are more details there. Fortunately, I am actually the one following the rules, as radical as that may sound to you.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 06:54, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
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  • Delete clearly not enough coverage of him as a musician to show notability as such. The coverage of his death does not rise above news coverage enough to justify having an article on him.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:36, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete I am surprised so much argument has occurred on this article. It seems quite clearly non-notable to me. Incredibly stupid comments about whether news is reliable based on crap like: "Academia considers newspaper articles less than fifty years old as primary sources" seems irrelevant, what is relevant is that this is a WP:BIO1E failure, an argument to which no clear rebuttal has been found. Dysklyver 15:53, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
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Joan Gramatte[edit]

Joan Gramatte (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Neither of the NYTimes articles even mention her. The magazine is notable. She isn't editor in chief , but art director DGG ( talk ) 03:12, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

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Cohd2 She was co-founder of both companies, one being a graphic design company, and at the time that was not common for a woman in magazines nor graphics in the country. It was her money (not just the $500 cash) including the income from Nuestro Graphico (that she quit her job to form) the one-woman graphics company that supported Dan Lopez and the research that was done to get the founding mentioned in the NUESTRO article. It was her prize-winning skills as an art director that helped prove the viability of the concept. He had the business acumen and she had the publishing and design know-how to present the perfect package to investors. Joan Gramatte is mentioned in the NY Times as giving the first infusion of cash (but it does not mention the fact that she quit her job too and worked on after Lopez quit his job in order to support the project): Fowler, Elizabeth M. "Management; Dreamer With Sound Idea Aided by U.S." New York Times. August 5, 1977.

  • Also, some awards during this time period now added.

ALSO, I have tried to re-add an Associated Press photo of the top five edit staff, includes Joan Gramatte, and Wiki won't let me do this. I just thought I could delete my first upload of the image and reload a larger image tried to make the photo into a thumbnail after I had thought I had successfully posted and now Wiki won't let me upload the larger image (that I own) that I had posted earlier. Now neither size of the image exists.

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  • Delete Unfortunately, neither the current article after Cohd2's additions nor searches disclose anything like the requirements of WP:GNG. The New York Times article, for example, merely mentions the article subject in passing in a parenthetical phrase. She may well have been an early pioneer in the American graphic design industry, but there aren't verifiable sources to document it. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:52, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
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