Talk:Margaret Thatcher

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2021

can i please edit her date of death for i couple minutes so margaret thatcher isnt dead Ineedalawyer (talk) 01:29, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. I don't know why you'd want to change her date of death though. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 03:37, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Crisis in the Falklans, or South Atlantic?

I changed the sub-heading from Falklands to South Atlantic, which OrewaTel then reverted, claiming it to be the wrong name, although I am not sure what this means. I think it is more accurate to say the crisis was in the South Atlantic rather than the Falklands. The whole section needs a tidy but I have left it as is for now. Thoughts? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 20:56, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@Roger 8 Roger: feel free to reinstate the edit, I don't see any issue. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:43, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

I was living in UK at the time and the papers were full of 'Falklands Crisis', 'Falklands War' etc. At no time did I see or hear 'South Atlantic Crisis'. As a point of accuracy, 'South Atlantic' is better since the trouble started in South Georgia but that was not the perception. Argentines landed on South Georgia and even erected a flag but that was not important. "We'll send a team to remove it when we get around to it." Then they landed in Falklands and all hell broke loose. I don't object to 'South Atlantic Crisis' as such but there are no citations and I expect there aren't any references to be cited. Of course, once Wikipedia calls it 'South Atlantic' then historians will start calling it by that name and so we will get some references. It's a bit incestuous though. OrewaTel (talk) 07:56, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

The Falklands invasion was only part of a wider problem with Argentina, admittedly by far the most obvious. However, this Argentine military problem had begun much earlier such as with Argentine forces on the Antarctic peninsular in 1952. Argentina had established a base on the South Sandwich islands in 1976 that had led the UK to send down a small naval force. And then there was the landing on South Georgia in March 1982 that also led the UK to send marines from the Falklands and warships down to the south atlantic, all before the 2 April invasion of the Falklands. Argenine sabre rattling still continues in an around the Antarctica and the South atlantic, large parts of which it claims as its sovereign territory, of which the Falklands are only a part. I know most of the media coverage was focussed on the Falklands War, but there was, and still is, more to it than just the 2 April invasion of the Falkland Islands. That is why I think 'Crisis in the South Atlantic' is a better heading. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 10:12, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

You may be right, although Thatcher was really only involved in the later part of that crisis? We have an article called Falklands War and another called 1982 invasion of the Falkland Islands, but not one called Crisis in the South Atlantic? My recollection of the news at the time was the BBC used both terms, the tabloids used "Falklands" and the broadsheets used "South Atlantic". But I may be mistaken. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:24, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

There are also articles on the Invasion of South Georgia and Operation Paraquet. Lord Carrington resigned because of that government's mishandling of messages being sent to Argenina, which involved the Falklands and the dependencies not just the Falklands themselves. The ship Endurance, that was being withdrawn, was the UK presence in the South Atlantic, not just for the Falklands, even though Stanley was its base. The first military action in 1982 was on South Georgia, not the Falklands, which resulted in the notable announcement outside number 10. Although I am not trying to minimise the importance and later media coverage of the Falkland Islands, I think there is a case now, after forty years, in acknowledging the bigger picture. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:03, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

The name Tam Dalyell lives on, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:26, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Activities during WWII

In a talk point I raised during 2013, now archived in Archive 22, I raised a question about activities of the then Margaret Roberts who was criticised in much later press correspondence for not having served or done ancillary war work (and implicitly being hypocritical about her enthusiasm for defence matters), although of age to in WWII, while others postponed or put studies on hold to volunteer or be drafted. I have been rereading a booklet Oxford's Famous Faces by John Dougill, published 1987, while she was PM, which mentions that while studying she 'worked twice a week in the forces canteen' but no indication where it was and what organisation ran it. I have seen no mention of it in authorised biographies published since that. If more detail could be found it would be interesting to mention. Dougill acknowledges her study of chemistry was encouraged as a way of nurturing potential scientific recruits to the munitions industry which could well have been employing her had the war not outlasted her university course.Cloptonson (talk) 07:29, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@Cloptonson: feel perfectly free to add this. I've also heard that she worked as a fire lookout in Grantham at this time, which could be worth mentioning also. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 19:43, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. In British parlance they were called Fire Watchers - yes, that could be added as it is sourced. Such duty if carried out at least 3 years and on application would have entitled British Fire Watchers to the Defence Medal.Cloptonson (talk) 05:28, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Encouraged by Neveselbert I have added both facts where they fit into the narrative, duly sourced. If anyone can shed more sourced light on the forces canteen in Oxford (where/who ran it) it would improve the info. At least the reader is left without a distorted picture of a cloistered existence untouched by the war.Cloptonson (talk) 05:41, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Stateswoman?

We have had several edits that tried to add the word, stateswoman. This has been rejected by several editors. The main reasons were:

1. Stateswoman (or statesman) is a meaningless peacock term.
2. Stateswoman is a gender specific term that is against policy unless a reference demands it.
3. The reference is a death certificate. Death certificates are notoriously unsafe as a source of boastful soi-disant adjectives.

OrewaTel (talk) 12:43, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

The word has been in the article since at least May 2005, do we know when or why it was removed? -- DeFacto (talk). 13:08, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

It should have been removed long ago. "Statesman" is simply an euphemism for politician and bureaucrat, and should be avoided. Dimadick (talk) 13:36, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you say that. According to Lexico, "stateswoman" means "A skilled, experienced, and respected female political leader or figure". It is used in Golda Meir. And the equivalent for men, "statesman", is used in Winston Churchill, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mikhail Gorbachev, and Charles de Gaulle. Interestingly though, "statesperson" (in the plural "statespeople") is used in Angela Merkel. -- DeFacto (talk). 14:25, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

I thought that death certificates, just like those for birth and marriage, were discounted as sources because they are WP:PRIMARY? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:51, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2021

Margaret Thatcher
Leader of the Conservative Party
In office 11 February 1975 – 28 November 1990
Deputy	The Viscount Whitelaw
Chairman	The Lord Thorneycroft Cecil Parkinson John Gummer Norman Tebbit Peter Brooke Kenneth Baker
Preceded by	Edward Heath
Succeeded by	John Major

Can Chairmen of the Conservative Party who served under Thatcher be listed in her infobox, as they are with most Leaders of the Labour Party, and many Leaders of the Conservatives? 81.157.224.127 (talk) 09:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)