Talk:Black Lives Matter

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Why is there no mention of the riots, anarchy and violence conducted by BLM protestors?

mostly just WP:NOTHERE WP:NOTFORUM

For the most obvious reasons I think the majority of people can agree that BLM is a movement however no one can deny that violence, arson, property damage, and anarchy were a recurring aspect in 2020 after the death of George Floyd. I don't understand why this isn't mentioned in the article, are the editors of Wikipedia in complete denial of criminal acts committed by BLM activists? Or do the editors have a biased leftist agenda when it comes to certain controversial topics like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paok117 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 8 January 2022 (UTC) They're peaceful protestors Espngeek (talk) 15:35, 8 January 2022 (UTC) If you have information that is supported by reliable sources, add it. That's how Wikipedia works. Or at the very least, please include links to the sources that you think are missing here. That way, other editors can review to determine whether they should be added, and add them if they have the time. As a reminder, this is a space to talk about issues with the article. It's not a space to talk about editors or launch accusations. Please stop. Dax Kirk (talk) 16:13, 8 January 2022 (UTC) @Paok117: According to this study by ACLED, 93% of BLM protests were peaceful. Another study by Harvard Radcliffe Institute said "Black Lives Matter Protesters Were Overwhelmingly Peaceful". ––FormalDude talk 19:46, 8 January 2022 (UTC) Your source that says 7% were violent. That should be included in the article. Baxter329 (talk) 01:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC) Please see archive 10 for the most recent discussion of this topic, under 2 months ago. The Crab Who Played With The Sea (talk) 01:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC) I wouldn’t really call them “peaceful protesters” tbh they nearly burnt Minneapolis to the ground had it not been for the US national guard being deployed to stop the rioters the city would have been destroyed. They also caused $2 billion dollars worth of property damage in June 2020 alone. What is the definition of a “reliable source” btw it sounds pretty biased and censors media publications and tabloids that aren’t aligned with the political left. I’m not going to provide a reference for a news article about this because it will be discredited and censored. Paok117 (talk) 06:31, 10 January 2022 (UTC) "What is the definition of a “reliable source” btw" How long have you been editing Wikipedia? See Wikipedia:Reliable sources for the content guideline. For a list of specific sources which have already been discussed, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. Dimadick (talk) 11:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC) @Dimadick: already tried explaining this. Take a look at their talk page. They aren't going to accept Wikipedia's views on sources. Doug Weller talk 15:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC) More than 500 shops and restaurants in Minneapolis and St. Paul have reported damage when protests on five nights turned violent over the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police. Dozens of properties burned to the ground. Owners and insurance experts estimate the costs of the damage could exceed $500 million. Source: https://www.startribune.com/twin-cities-rebuilding-begins-with-donations-pressure-on-government/571075592/ Baxter329 (talk) 00:58, 22 January 2022 (UTC) Dr. Birx Says George Floyd Protests Have Resulted in the Destruction of 70 Covid-19 Testing Sites Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/dr-birx-says-george-floyd-151449109.html Baxter329 (talk) 01:08, 22 January 2022 (UTC) Minneapolis vandalism targets include 198-unit affordable housing development The apartments were expected to hit the market later this year. June 27, 2020 The under-construction affordable housing development that burned in the widespread violence in south Minneapolis late Wednesday and early Thursday was to be a six-story rental building with 198 apartments for low-income renters, including more than three dozen for very low-income tenants. Construction began last fall on Midtown Corner, which was expected to be completed and ready for occupancy this year. Late Wednesday the wood-framed upper floors of the building were fully engulfed in flames, with thick plumes of smoke that figured prominently in widely viewed photos of the riots. By Thursday morning, what had been an active construction site was reduced to a pile of smoldering ashes atop what was left of the concrete first-floor commercial space. Source: https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-vandalism-targets-include-189-unit-affordable-housing-development/570836742/ Baxter329 (talk) 01:12, 22 January 2022 (UTC) At least 11 killed during U.S. protests seeking justice for George Floyd, many of them African Americans Source: https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/at-least-11-killed-during-u-s-protests-seeking-justice-for-george-floyd-many-of-them-african-americans/ Baxter329 (talk) 01:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC) Baxter329, spamming this talk page with news stories is not going to accomplish anything. It looks like you want George Floyd protests in Minneapolis–Saint Paul, where all of this is detailed. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:17, 22 January 2022 (UTC) I don't know why you refer to my sources as "spam." These are reliable sources, and are a direct answer to the person who started this section of the talk page. Baxter329 (talk) 01:21, 22 January 2022 (UTC) Baxter329, because you're spamming the talk page with them. This page is for the broad Black Lives Matter movement. The George Floyd protests have their own pages. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2022 (UTC) All of those articles are about BLM protestors. Therefore, they are not "spam." Baxter329 (talk) 01:40, 22 January 2022 (UTC) Baxter329, nothing that you copy-pasted here says the damage was caused by BLM protestors. You're neglecting the violence committed by right-wing groups. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:53, 22 January 2022 (UTC) It wasn't "right wing" groups who protested against the murder of George Floyd. Those were BLM protestors. Baxter329 (talk) 02:06, 22 January 2022 (UTC) And the boogaloo bois and other right-wingers used the protests to stir up violence.[1][2] – Muboshgu (talk) 02:21, 22 January 2022 (UTC) 14 Days Of Protests, 19 Dead June 8, 2020 Though curfews are lifting and protests remain predominantly peaceful, the death toll from two weeks of demonstrations over the death of George Floyd continues to creep upward, with at least 19 people—a majority of whom are black—now dead. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days-of-protests-19-dead/ Baxter329 (talk) 01:18, 22 January 2022 (UTC) That article makes no mention of "Black Lives Matter". --Jayron32 16:13, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 January 2022

Change the link in section Reactions > "All Lives Matter" > External image to the following: https://chainsawsuit.krisstraub.com/20160707.shtml because the old link is nonfunctional. Hugo jakd (talk) 17:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done Firefangledfeathers 17:27, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

BLM website said: “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement”

mostly just WP:NOTHERE WP:NOTFORUM

But BLM took it down after it was criticized by conservatives. Primary source: https://web.archive.org/web/20200229224723/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/ Secondary source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/blm-deletes-page-disruption-nuclear-family And here's some info from the New York Times: We know the statistics – that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20160617074840/https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/us/politics/15text-obama.html I'd like this wikipedia article to address why an organization that claims to care about black lives wants to get rid of the nuclear family, when the evidence from the New York Times shows how harmful that has already been to black people. Baxter329 (talk) 01:33, 22 January 2022 (UTC) I'd like for editors to stop treating this like a forum to make WP:POINTs. Go review WP:NOR. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:51, 22 January 2022 (UTC) Wikipedia articles are supposed to present both the good and the bad about the subject. Baxter329 (talk) 02:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC) No, they are supposed to present what reliable sources say. Please see WP:FALSEBALANCE. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:07, 22 January 2022 (UTC) The website that I quoted from is the very first "external link" that is cited at the end of the article. Since it's cited as an "external link," it must be the real and true BLM website. I got the quote from the same BLM website that's listed as the first "external link." It's the same website. Therefore, it must be reliable. Baxter329 (talk) 02:13, 22 January 2022 (UTC) WP:ABOUTSELF. Have WP:SECONDARY reliable sources covered it? EvergreenFir (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC) As the page says, this is the article for the decentralized Black Lives Matter movement. You appear to be talking about the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:54, 22 January 2022 (UTC) The very first "external link" listed at the end of this article is https://blacklivesmatter.com/ That is the same source that I cited as the primary source of the quote. Baxter329 (talk) 01:58, 22 January 2022 (UTC) And it would also help if you don't selectively cut off your quotes. We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable. That sounds no different from what I've seen in Mormon and Orthodox Jewish communities. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:57, 22 January 2022 (UTC) The out-of-wedlock birth rate for Mormons and Orthodox Jews is extremely low. For blacks, it's more than 70%. Baxter329 (talk) 02:00, 22 January 2022 (UTC) So? That is not germane to this article. Please only use this page to discuss improvements to the article. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:08, 22 January 2022 (UTC) I'm not the one who initiated the comparison to Mormons and Orthodox Jews. I was responding to the person who did inititiate it. Baxter329 (talk) 02:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC) With a ridiculous comparison. This interpretation of what it means to "disrupt" the nuclear family sounds far more nefarious when you leave off the second half of the sentence. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:23, 22 January 2022 (UTC) The full quote that you cited mentions "mothers" but not "fathers." I think we should include that in the article. Baxter329 (talk) 02:17, 22 January 2022 (UTC) We don't go by what you (or I) think should be listed. Only what RS tell us is important. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Politifact quote from BLM founder Patrisse Cullors

WP:POINTY/WP:POVPUSH EvergreenFir (talk) 03:53, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
"We do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia, in particular, are trained organizers; we are trained Marxists. We are superversed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think what we really try to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many Black folks." Source: https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/jul/21/black-lives-matter-marxist-movement/ I think this quote should be included in the article. I think the article should explain why an organization called "Black Lives Matter" supports a policy that has created nothing but death, misery, and famine in every country where it has ever been adopted. Far more black lives have been murdered by Marxist governments than by the police in democratic countries. I'd like the article to address these points. Baxter329 (talk) 02:28, 22 January 2022 (UTC) I think you may need a WP:TOPICBAN. Thoughts, EvergreenFir? – Muboshgu (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism

There needs to be a section in this article concerning the founder's statements on the Jewish-American, and Jewish populations around the world. Framing them as warriors against racism and neglecting to add a full list of their views may lead readers to assume they do not hold racist dogmas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactChecker200000 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

FactChecker200000, and what reliable sources do you have regarding the founder's statements on the Jewish-American, and Jewish populations around the world? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:49, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Here are some reliable sources that address this topic:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/24/ask-politifact-black-lives-matter-anti-semitic/

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/07/1003872848/the-complicated-history-behind-blms-solidarity-with-the-pro-palestinian-movement

https://time.com/6014631/israel-apartheid-hrw-washington/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/jewish-allies-condemn-black-lives-matters-apartheid-platform-1.5421194

https://www.vox.com/world/2021/5/26/22452967/palestine-gaza-protests-black-lives-matter-blm-solidarity-israel

Baxter329 (talk) 18:17, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Here are some sources I believe hold water, thank you for your quick response. These come from a variety of international sources, including the US, UK and Israel.

https://nypost.com/2021/05/21/blms-aggressive-tactics-and-rhetoric-have-led-to-attacks-on-jews/ https://spectator.org/jews-black-lives-matter-letter/ https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/black-lives-matters-jewish-problem-in-their-own-words/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/blm-should-look-to-martin-luther-king-not-malcolm-x-for-inspiration https://forward.com/news/456863/did-protesters-at-northwestern-use-an-antisemitic-slur-against-the/