Talk:Barack Obama

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Atrocities

http://www.webcitation.org/6Ad6E3mFs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012#Controversy_over_indefinite_detention

Anyone care to take a stab at integrating these into this article without being overwhelmingly negative? Kobra (talk) 19:27, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

I think we'll pass, thanks. Fringe criticisms that have little to do with a bio. Tarc (talk) 19:43, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

What, you want a section labeled "Atrocities Committed by Obama" or something? I am assuming that there is some discussion of this issue in the article on his presidency and there's clearly a stand alone article on the NDAA FY12 itself. Not sure what more you are wanting since the issue hasn't had a great deal of impact, certainly not enough to make the bio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdlund (talk • contribs) 13:33, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

there's not going to be a 'controversies' section. check talk page archives re that issue. certainly not an 'atrocities' section. ugh. Cramyourspam (talk) 20:43, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Maobama

Hi. There's a discussion of the redirects Maobama and Chairman Maobama at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 September 11#Maobama, if anyone is interested. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:13, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Major changes to lede

I reverted a 13 September 2012 WP:BRD series of edits by Joker123192 (talk | contribs) to the lede, that changed it
from:

Barack Hussein Obama II (born August 4, 1961) is the 44th and current President of the United States. He is the first African American to hold the office.

Born in Honolulu, Hawaii, Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he was president of the Harvard Law Review. He was a community organizer in Chicago before earning his law degree. He worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. He served three terms representing the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004, running unsuccessfully for the United States House of Representatives in 2000.

Several events brought Obama to national attention during his campaign to represent the State of Illinois in the United States Senate in 2004, including his victory in the March 2004 Illinois Democratic primary and his keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in July 2004. He won the Senate election in November 2004, serving until his resignation following his 2008 presidential election victory. His presidential campaign began in February 2007, and after a close campaign in the 2008 Democratic Party presidential primaries against Hillary Rodham Clinton, he won his party's nomination. In the 2008 presidential election, he defeated Republican nominee John McCain, and was inaugurated as president on January 20, 2009. Nine months later, Obama was named the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize laureate. In April 2011, he announced that he would be running for re-election in 2012.

As president, Obama signed economic stimulus legislation in the form of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 and the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 in response to the 2007–2009 recession in the United States. Other major domestic policy initiatives include the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010, and the Budget Control Act of 2011. In foreign policy, Obama ended US military involvement in the Iraq War, increased troop levels in Afghanistan, signed the New START arms control treaty with Russia, ordered U.S. military involvement in Libya, and ordered the military operation that resulted in the death of Osama bin Laden. In May 2012, he became the first sitting U.S. president to publicly support legalizing same-sex marriage.

to:

Barack Hussein Obama II (born August 4, 1961) is the 44th and current President of the United States. He is the first African American to hold the office. He also was a member of the Illinois State Senate from 1997 to 2004, a member of the United States Senate from 2005 to 2008, and was the recipient of the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize.

Born in Honolulu, Hawaii to Kansas native Stanley Ann Dunham and Kenyan exchange student Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., Obama was raised at first by his mother in Hawaii and Indonesia, and then by his grandparents in Hawaii again. Following his high school graduation in 1979, he went on to become a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. Before earning his law degree, he was a community organizer in Chicago, working primarily as director of the Developing Communities Project. In 1992, he was married to Michelle Robinson, with whom he has two daughters named Malia and Sasha. From 1992 to 1997, he worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. In 1995, he published his widely-praised memoir entitled Dreams from my Father, which would later be followed by a book outlining his political beliefs and opinions entitled The Audacity of Hope in 2006 and a children's book entitled Of Thee I Sing in 2010. He represented the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004, running unsuccessfully for the United States House of Representatives in 2000. Obama rose to national prominence during his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, and his subsequent election to the U.S. Senate that same year. In 2008, he successfully ran for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination, narrowly winning a close primary campaign against Hillary Rodham Clinton. He then went on to defeat Republican nominee John McCain in an historic election victory, and was inaugurated as president in January 2009.

As president, Obama signed economic stimulus legislation in the form of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 and the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 in response to the 2007–2009 recession in the United States. Other major domestic policy initiatives include the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010, and the Budget Control Act of 2011. In foreign policy, Obama ended US military involvement in the Iraq War, increased troop levels in Afghanistan, signed the New START arms control treaty with Russia, ordered U.S. military involvement in Libya, and ordered the military operation that resulted in the death of Osama bin Laden. In May 2012, he became the first sitting U.S. president to publicly support legalizing same-sex marriage. Obama is currently running for re-election as the Democratic Party's presidential nominee in the 2012 presidential election.

specifically:

• changing:
  Born in Honolulu, Hawaii,
  Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School,
  where he was president of the Harvard Law Review.
  to:
  Born in Honolulu, Hawaii
  to Kansas native Stanley Ann Dunham and Kenyan exchange student Barack Hussein Obama, Sr.,
  Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School,
  where he was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review.
• adding:
  Obama was raised at first by his mother in Hawaii and Indonesia,
  and then by his grandparents in Hawaii again.
  Following his high school graduation in 1979,
• changing:
  He was a community organizer in Chicago before earning his law degree.
  to:
  Before earning his law degree, he was a community organizer in Chicago,
  working primarily as director of the Developing Communities Project.
• adding:
  In 1992, he was married to Michelle Robinson, with whom he has two daughters named Malia and Sasha.
• changing:
  He worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School
  from 1992 to 2004.
  to:
  From 1992 to 1997,
  he worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School.
• adding:
  In 1995, he published his widely-praised memoir entitled Dreams from my Father,
  which would later be followed by a book outlining his political beliefs and opinions entitled The Audacity of Hope in 2006
  and a children's book entitled Of Thee I Sing in 2010.
• changing:
  Several events
  brought Obama to national attention during
  his campaign to represent the State of Illinois in the United States Senate in 2004,
  including his victory in the March 2004 Illinois Democratic primary and
  his keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in July 2004.
  to:
  Obama rose to national prominence during
  his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention,
  and his subsequent election to the U.S. Senate that same year.
• changing:
  His presidential campaign began in February 2007,
  and after a close campaign in the 2008 Democratic Party presidential primaries against Hillary Rodham Clinton, he won his party's nomination.
  to:
  In 2008, he successfully ran for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination,
  narrowly winning a close primary campaign against Hillary Rodham Clinton.
• changing:
  he defeated Republican nominee John McCain,
  to:
  He then went on to defeat Republican nominee John McCain
  in an historic election victory,
• changing:
  Other major domestic policy initiatives include
  the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010, and the Budget Control Act of 2011.
  to:
  Other major domestic policy initiatives include
  the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act,
  the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010, and the Budget Control Act of 2011.

repeating (without discussion) the misleading 10 September 2012 removal of:

the March 2004 primary unexpected landslide election which overnight made him a rising star in the national Democratic Party, started speculation about a presidential future, and led to the reissue of his memoir

which I had reverted,
as well as introducing a number of inaccuracies and material that is of dubious appropriateness for the lede section.
The most recent talk page discussion about the lede did not indicate a consensus to change it.

Newross (talk) 23:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Why not save some talk page space and just link the diff? Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 06:23, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Obama's home country

covered in FAQ #5
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
About a week ago I brought up the issue of Pres. Obama's place of birth, given that his wife has described his "home country" as Kenya and his literary agent listing him as being from Kenya. Someone, who I presume was an administrator here, rather promptly and perhaps unscrupulously (please do not take this as an attack, as I am unfamiliar with policy and taking this at face value) hid the entry and shrunk the text size. The issue was immediately discarded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barack_Obama/Archive_75#Regarding_Obama.27s_place_of_birth However, there is still the matter of what all this means. Should the article mention these things somewhere (I can't edit). Perhaps, "Kenya, however, has been described as his home country by Michele Obama and his literary agent." — Preceding unsigned comment added by YankeeJeff (talk • contribs) 00:22, 15 September 2012 (UTC) There is a super-consensus against, in any way, referring to Obama as being born from any place other than Hawaii. Bringing this issue up at this talk page is simply a waste of your time. SMP0328. (talk) 00:33, 15 September 2012 (UTC) I never said in this segment that O was born in Kenya...I'm only saying that perhaps it should be mentioned that his own wife in what appears to be an unedited video says his "home country" is Kenya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YankeeJeff (talk • contribs) 00:42, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Why should it be mentioned? HiLo48 (talk) 00:49, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Isn't a person's "home country" or what his family members call his "home country" rather significant to that person's life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by YankeeJeff (talk • contribs) 00:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC) It doesn't matter who said it. There is a strong consensus against such a reference being made in this article. You are entitled to your opinion, but Wikipedia articles are run based on, among other things, consensus. You are asking for a modification of that consensus. I am only preparing you for the inevitable result. SMP0328. (talk) 00:52, 15 September 2012 (UTC) (ec) We've been over this. So. Many. Times. Just... don't. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 00:54, 15 September 2012 (UTC) YankeeJeff - you agree that in this context "home country" doesn't mean the place he was born. We don't, therefore, know what it does mean. So there's little point to including it. HiLo48 (talk) 00:57, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Gee, so facts don't matter...Wikipedia is tyranny by majority. Seb az, you aren't even putting up an argument, you are just perpetuating the automatic dismissal I have seen from many liberals. When the word consensus is mentioned, let's talk about consensus. Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:User_Democrat Now have a gander at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:User_Republican Is this the consensus you're referring to? Liberals? LOL HiLo48 (talk) 01:04, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Also, I suppose "home country" means just what it means...I am not suggesting that anything but ambivalence should be placed in the article while mentioning the term. YankeeJeff (talk) 01:00, 15 September 2012 (UTC) So, "home country" means just what it means. LOL HiLo48 (talk) 01:02, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Yes. I'm suggesting that the article should say something like "Kenya, however, has been described as his home country by Michele Obama." — Preceding unsigned comment added by YankeeJeff (talk • contribs) 01:11, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Why would you say "however"? HiLo48 (talk) 01:13, 15 September 2012 (UTC) And an even more knowledgeable source, Obama himself, said "I've come home"[4] while on a trip to Ireland. I guess we should add that too. Fat&Happy (talk) 01:42, 15 September 2012 (UTC) I would say "however" because, as it has been affirmed, the popular opinion says that he was born in the US and it is his home country. By the way Fat Happy, the full quote is "I've come home to find the apostrophe that we lost somewhere along the way.", so he's joking. YankeeJeff (talk) 01:47, 15 September 2012 (UTC) YankeeJeff - I gave you enough rope, and it worked. You label those who disagree with you with the pejorative term liberal (which is hilarious to an Australian such as myself), and while agreeing that "home" does not mean that it's where he was born, you want to add it because it contrasts with the "popular opinion" that he was born in the USA. Your POV has seeped through. HiLo48 (talk) 01:57, 15 September 2012 (UTC) It's not "the popular opinion" that says he was born in the U.S., it's the State of Hawaii. And your immediate interpretation of the statement in Ireland as a joke while not recognizing the use of an obvious figure of speech by his wife in Kenya clearly demonstrates the motive behind this suggestion. Time for a second close. Fat&Happy (talk) 02:08, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

First gay president

It should be noted in the main article. For more information, see: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/newsweek-cover-obama-gay-president/story?id=16338110#.UFZqsit6vo0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.144.167.237 (talk) 00:15, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The article already thoroughly covers Obama's support for gay rights. There's no need to refer to Newsweek euphemistically referring to him as the "first gay president", with all the possible misunderstanding that is included in such a description of him. SMP0328. (talk) 00:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Excessive purge rate

I think discussions on this page should be purged less often. 140.177.205.223 (talk) 14:52, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Unless it's blatant trolling or vandalism, all threads are preserved in the talk page archive. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hussein is missing

Why is "Hussein" missing from The President's name in this article's title?

The articles on John Wilks Booth is not titled "John Booth", and the article on Lee Harvey Oswald is not titled "John Oswald".

Please explain...? 75.202.62.37 (talk) 11:49, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

As a Muslim I think it would be really cool to have the pres.'s full name in the article's title - esp. if a serial killer can have his name in the title!!!Axatax (talk) 14:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Because most people call him Barack Obama. The Ronald Reagan article isn't titled "Ronald Wilson Reagan." Acroterion (talk) 12:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

It's the second word in the prose and in the infobox. Anyone who reads the article will figure out what his middle name is. Hot Stop (Edits) 12:47, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The article name itself and the top of the infobox generally reflect the colloquial rather than the legal name. That is why e.g. Newt's article is at Newt Gingrich, while Newton Gingrich is a redirect to that. Tarc (talk) 12:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I strongly agree that Hussein should be in the article title as it we have never had another President with a name even remotely similar to Hussein. 173.61.192.214 (talk) 13:02, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's not going to happen, any more than we would move Calvin Coolidge to John Calvin Coolidge, Jr.. Tarc (talk) 13:38, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

That´s not sufficient reason not to follow WP:NAME. Maybe he should consider changing his name to James, though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:57, 18 September 2012 (UTC)