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June 21

Life goes on, bra

The refrain to The Beatles' Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da goes Ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on, bra. What does "bra" mean here? I doubt it means a brassiere. I've always imagined it's the Swedish language word bra "good, well", but that can't be right, as The Beatles weren't a Swedish band. Does it have some other meaning or is it just a nonsense word? JIP | Talk 13:41, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Here in the US, it can mean "bro", as in (figurative) "brother", but I'm not sure if that slang would have been present in the Beatles' time. StuRat (talk) 14:11, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

The article states 'The tag line "ob-la-di, ob-la-da, life goes on, bra" was an expression used by Nigerian conga player Jimmy Scott-Emuakpor, an acquaintance of McCartney.' if that helps anyone. Nanonic (talk) 14:22, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Expressions like that probably mean about the same thing as "do do do down do be do down down, comma comma, down do be do down down, etc." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:42, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

See "Non-lexical vocables in music".—Wavelength (talk) 15:51, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

You may also ask what Ob-La-Di and Ob-La-Da mean, too. Mingmingla (talk) 18:09, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Here is McCartney's own explanation. Stu and Nanonic basically combined to give the correct answer. --Jayron32 19:57, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

All well and good, except it doesn't explain the last lines, "If you want some fun / Take Ob-La-Di-Bla-Da" followed by a "Thank you!" and giggling on the fade-out. I always took that to mean they were passing the pipe around, hence ob-la-di etc. being some sort of drug euphemism. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:07, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Obviously they were discussing the theme music for an advertising campaign for a new product: Life Goes On bras. :-P Clarityfiend (talk) 23:37, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

But how would they compare to Tijuana Bras? - ¡Ouch! (^{hurt me} / _{more pain}) 06:33, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

June 22

the meaning of "warren"

The following is taken from Martin Amis's latest novel "Lionel Asbo": "So Des lived his life in tunnels. The tunnel from flat to school, the tunnel (not the same tunnel) from school to flat. And all the warrens that took him to Grace, and brought him back again." I am not sure about the meaning of "warren". Could you explain it for me. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.202.187.153 (talk) 01:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

A warren is the underground network of tunnels that rabbits live in in the wild. --Jayron32 02:13, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Also originally when they were kept in protected areas of land supervised by a warrener Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:57, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

For reference, Wiktionary [1], and warren_(domestic). SemanticMantis (talk) 16:53, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

proud-chested bookcases

I can't find "proud-chested" in any dictionary. I wonder what it means in the following context: "But this: rank upon rank of proud-chested bookcases, like lavishly decorated generals." Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.202.187.153 (talk) 04:15, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

It appears to be a nonce word and a pun.

—Wavelength (talk) 04:24, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't see it as a pun, since a bookcase isn't a type of chest. More like a combination of personification and synecdoche. The bookcases contain books that the owner wants to display in the same way that a general proud of the medals on his chest might want to display them. First we pretend that it's the bookcases themselves that are proud of the books (personification). Now we might say that the general's chest, where he wears his medals, is proud (synecdoche), meaning that the general is. Combining both figures of speech, we are pretending that the bookcase has a chest where it is proudly displaying the books. --70.49.171.225 (talk) 05:26, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Brass knobs on a chest of drawers resemble brass buttons on a double-breasted uniform. (A bookcase might sit atop a chest of drawers.)

—Wavelength (talk) 05:47, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Frying in human fat

What is the proper verb in English that means "to fry [something] in human fat", or do only the languages of cannibal societies have words for such a thing? Enzingiyi (talk) 09:33, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, languages tend to only have words for things that happen in that culture. StuRat (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I have my doubts that that word exists in the English language. Also...do cannibal cultures have cooking techniques such as frying? Admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about recipes in these cultures, but do they have things like frying pans that they could use to fry things in human fat? Bali88 (talk) 15:59, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

On a related note...are there words that mean to fry something in other types of fat? I mean other than just "fry"? Bali88 (talk) 21:33, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Frankly, I've been wondering that too. Imagine a language that had a word for "to fry in chicken fat" or "to fry in goat fat". CTTOI, that could probably give someone ideas for a conlang. Enzingiyi (talk) 01:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

If any language had that, I'd expect it to be French, as cooking seems so important to them. Of course, some languages, like German, seem happy to string many words together to make long compound words, so some version of "ChickenFatFried" might exist in a language like that. BTW, in English we have the "chicken fried steak", which isn't far off. StuRat (talk) 04:03, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

However, chicken-fried steak is not steak fried in chicken fat, it's steak fried in the manner of fried chicken. (And if you fry a piece of chicken breast in the same manner as chicken-fried steak, you get chicken-fried chicken, which sounds more redundant than it is.) I'm unaware of any single German word meaning "fried in chicken fat" or even "fried in lard" (which is more likely to happen); you'd just use the phrase "in Schweineschmalz gebraten". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:08, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

According to the lede in the article "The dish gets its name from the fact that the steak is cooked in oil that has already been used to fry chicken". Thus it would also contain chicken fat. Of course, it's possible it's prepared as you said in other places. StuRat (talk) 20:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I sometimes enjoy chocolate covered marshmallows for dessert after a main dish of chicken fried steak. Bus stop (talk) 23:31, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

South by Southwest

I was reading this thread and people talked about the name of the music festival South by Southwest. That brings me my long confusion about its abbreviation SxSW, which the word "by" seems to be abbreviated by the letter "x". As a non native English speaker I don't find it intuitive — is it a convention of using "x" to represent "by" when talking about directions? Fdsze (talk) 20:09, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

The word "by" is used in multiplication, especially when applied to calculating area; for example a room which measures three meters by four meters is often described as 3m x 4m, which would be 12m². In the U.S., standard-sized boards of lumber are described by their cross sectional dimensions, such as the ubiquitous two by four (that's a disambiguation page leading to other uses of "two by four", and in many the "by" is represented by "x"). The use of "x" as "by" is familiar in that context to native American English speakers. --Jayron32 20:27, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

NB, this use of "by" meaning "multiply" is not standard in other parts of the world. (Some) educated Indians speaking English will say "one by three" to mean 1/3! SemanticMantis (talk) 16:38, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't know about directions, but I'd take it as an extension of the use of the multiplication sign to mean "by" (see Multiplication sign#Uses, fourth bullet point). One often sees the letter x casually used to represent a multiplication sign. Deor (talk) 20:30, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Note also that "south by southwest" is not a real direction. Curiously, this came up a few days ago in another thread here, which will soon be moved to the archive here. The named directions in order from south to west are: south, south by west, south-southwest, southwest by south, southwest, southwest by west, west-southwest, west by south, west. (Different people disagree as to how to hyphenate or capitalize them.) Similarly the Canadian music festival North by Northeast, and the famous 1959 movie North by Northwest, are not named after real directions either. (And no, nobody in the movie flies north on Northwest Airlines either.) They're all just nonsense phrases combining different directions.

When the real directions involving the word "by" are used (which is pretty rare nowadays) and abbreviated, "by" becomes "b", not "x", e.g. "SWbS". --70.49.171.225 (talk) 03:46, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Actually I think this is a real system -it is certainly one I was taught and is used for instance, "to face south by southeast" [2] in an article by a northwestern professor in the Journal of Geography. I expect this is another American English thing. Rmhermen (talk) 11:27, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, if such a "system" is used anywhere, it is not a "standard" used by some of the worlds largest/most historically prominent navies (USA and Royal/UK). Points of the compass has a complete sourced explanation. So I don't see how it can be a US/UK thing, unless our otherwise well-sourced and well-written article is in serious error. I myself am not convinced that a professor of geology cannot get it wrong! Seriously, though, "south by southeast" can be found in many places, but I am not convinced this makes it correct usage. If anyone can find an WP:RS for the standardized usage of phrases like SbSE, the should be added to our article. (Also, if SbSE is meaningful to you, what does it map to in our our article? SbE?) SemanticMantis (talk) 16:49, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I gave an explanation, in the thread you 70.49.171.225 pointed to, as to how someone could come to the conclusion that SbSE is a more "logical" name than SbE, and that indeed it would map to SbE. --Trovatore (talk) 22:08, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Excessive pride in one's culture

Is there a word for the way that humans seem to form excessive pride for custom's of one's own nation and/or culture, often when said customs are objectively trivial?

This might include taking pride in:

• Entertainment systems (PC vs. XBox, Mac vs. PC)
• Driving on a certain side of the road.
• Use of a certain measurement system ("we still use English standard units and we're proud of that")
• Sports culture ("I'm a Yankees fan", "my football is better than your football").
• Language (Linguistic discrimination, Linguistic purism)
• One's own nation (in certain circumstances).
• Race (black pride, La Raza, Irish pride)

It seems that this us vs. them thinking is everywhere I look, and yet I cannot find a word for it. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 20:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

First, I question your premise that pride in one's group is automatically "excessive". As regards your checklist, I wonder how things would work out if the rule was, "Drive on whichever side of the road you like." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:17, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I question your premise that the OP asserted that such pride never exists moderately. —Tamfang (talk) 22:49, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

"everywhere I look" does not indicate moderation. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:58, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

The existence of something "everywhere I look" does not exclude the presence of anything else. I have the good fortune to live in a place that has trees everywhere I look, but that doesn't mean there are no bushes or squirrels. —Tamfang (talk) 04:42, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Nationalism--86.180.143.223 (talk) 21:19, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Chauvinism, jingoism, ethnocentrism, little-end vs. big-end (with reference to Gulliver). See also Editor war... AnonMoos (talk) 21:25, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, this much I can tell you: My dog's better than your dog. My dog's better than yours. My dog's better, 'cause he eats Ken-L Ration. My dog's better than yours. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:19, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Maybe you remember a line from "Satisfaction", in which Jagger says something about a guy "Who can't be a man, because he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:21, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Actually, it's more than just nationalism or chauvinism or whatever. It's "bias toward the familiar". Whatever the term might be for that. I could just as easily ridicule a statement like "we still use the Metric system and we're proud of that." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Blah, blah, troll, repetition, troll blah? μηδείς (talk) 02:04, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

BB, I'm quite familiar with the causes of it; I am not asking about those. I am asking if there is a word for it. The closest I can get at this point is "tribal mentality", "Lord of the Flies mentality," or something similar. I am betting that if English doesn't have a word, somewhere, that some language probably does. Magog the Ogre (t • c) 02:45, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Mere-exposure effect, for one. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:14, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Meanwhile, define "excessive". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:20, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

"Myopic" comes to mind. Also "parochialism". Bus stop (talk) 11:32, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Parochialism does seem to fit. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:45, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

And presumably the polar opposite of "The idiot who praises / With enthusiastic tone / All centuries but this / And every country but his own." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:47, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

"Tribal mentality" as one word is tribalism. Is that what you're looking for? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:26, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Not quite it, but outgroup homogeneity is lurking behind many of your examples. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:35, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Granfalloon comes pretty close.--Shirt58 (talk) 06:11, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia itself would qualify. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:16, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

June 23

Word for an opening on the door of a speakeasy

For the life of me I can't find a word for the little eye-level trap that you might see on the door of a speakeasy (most likely in the movies), what a doorman might peep through to see who's there. Not a peephole but something with a latch maybe that can be raised and lowered from the inside? Like a mail slot but eye level. Is there a unique word for this? Wolfgangus (talk) 05:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Peephole?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:25, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Peephole + "not a peephole" ≅ mutual destruction. The Shantavira Method, a great way of getting rid of nuclear waste, is hereby announced.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:21, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Lots of suggestions in these two threads: [3][4]. -- BenRG (talk) 09:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Those threads were immensely helpful, thank you so much. Wolfgangus (talk) 11:10, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

In French it's called a vasistas, because the party who opens it might ask was ist das?. —Or so I thought; but my French-English dictionary renders vasistas as ‘transom/fanlight’. —Tamfang (talk) 04:50, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Bellows' French Dictionary (1943 edition) translates vasistas as hopper or fanlight. --70.49.171.225 (talk) 06:04, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

What's a hopper? —Tamfang (talk) 04:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

A Hopper (particulate collection container). Is that really the best title for the article? Tevildo (talk) 14:58, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

First used by Chaucer in the Reeve's Tale, incidentally. "By God, right by the hopur wil I stande", Quod John, "and se howgates the corn gas in." Tevildo (talk) 15:05, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

was ist das is not French... --Bowlhover (talk) 06:36, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps French people won't open the door to Germans, but just shout at them through the fanlight? Alansplodge (talk) 12:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

French people will open the door to Germans, but not if they're holding a bottle of nasty German wine. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:21, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Is that related to why, when a French person is fond of a German person, they ask them to "shut the door"?  — Preceding irrelevant response added by 71.20.250.51 (talk) 19:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

June 25

Czech translation help requested

Hello, you hard-working editor, you! I happened upon an interesting figure in Czech criminal history, and I was hoping to get some help because there aren't many resources available on this dude Harry Jelinek, but there is an article on him at the Czech Wiki, and he seems to have made somewhat of an impression for his criminal ventures. Harry Jelinek was a con artist who apparently duped a bunch of people in the early 1900s--it's unclear to me whether he sued 500 people, or was sued by 500 people for fraud, but somehow he was never prosecuted, which is fairly interesting. One of his biggest cons, (according to what I can tell from the machine translation of the Czech article here) is that he engaged in an elaborate ruse to sell the Karlstejn Castle to American industrialists, by first conning the operators of the Castle that he was filming a movie/documentary, then pretending to be in charge of the facility, treating the victims to an elaborate meal, etc, then selling it for $30,000 or so. I'd like to flesh out the article with at least some of the basic facts, verified DOB, death date, if possible, and most importantly, properly establishing his notability via the references that are in the Czech article. If it's also possible to get the details of his history of cons from these sources, and of his involvement in the printing of pro-Nazi content, that'd be great too. He appears to be an interesting character for a number of reasons. As I've said, I'm having trouble because the machine translations are so poor, and because there isn't a lot of info about him in English souces. If you can help, I'd be quite appreciative, and I'd be happy to follow your lead! Thank you, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:18, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

This isn't really a question for the language reference desk. Unfortunately the Czech article is badly written and uncited. But yes, it basically says he went around helping the Lobkowicz family sell their property, offered Karlštejn to American investors and then met the same investors in Split (for secrecy) and also sold them a yacht. The American consulate in Prague found out about it quickly enough but didn't press any charges to avoid the country being shamed. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 08:13, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't read Czech, but I'd be pretty confident that "Za tu dobu bylo na něho podáno 501 žalob pro podvody" means that 501 suits were filed against him, not that he filed them. "bylo...podáno" is a passive structure ("were filed"), and "na něho" means "at/for/on him". Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:34, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Using the Czech google page quite a bit of stuff turns up - there might have been a film made about him? Here are the links: [5] [6] (this one says his birth name was Josef, which might help in searching)[7] [8] I'm sorry I don't speak Czech either but it would be great if filekadeshoe could tell you if these are reliable sources at least.174.88.8.213 (talk) 14:57, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Obliged to you all for the help. If any of you happen to learn Czech soon, come on by!  :) Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:09, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The česká televize and český rozhlas ones are good. Aha is not so good (it's a tabloid newspaper). The geocaching one has a lot of information but it has no indication of where it comes from, so it may not be considered reliable. And Fut.Perf is correct, it says 501 cases were filed against him. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 08:10, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Japanese to English Translation, 1Q84

I've been reading the novel 1Q84, and our article says this "1Q84 (One Q Eighty-Four or Q-teen Eighty-Four or ichi-kew-hachi-yon (いちきゅうはちよん Ichi-Kyū-Hachi-Yon?))"

Reading in English, a character thinks to herself (paraphrased) "This is not the year 1984. This is some other place, I will call it 1Q84" The Q stands for "question". So in my head, I read it as "Q-teen Eighty-Four," as a natural analogue to "nineteen eighty-four." But this is rather subtle wordplay in English.

My question is, does any of this wordplay make sense in the original Japanese? Would they use Arabic numerals to write 1984 in Japan in 1984? Apparently "1Q84" is also in some sense the Japanese title, since it is on the cover. Can someone give me a literal or artistic translation of the Japanese (sub)title (google translate only gives "nineteen hachiyon")? I know modern Japanese lit has a lot of English borrowing, and many modern Japanese people know some English. But I imagine that was less true in 1984.

Finally, for reference, can anyone recommend anything written about translation of this novel in particular, or translation of Haruki_Murakami's work to English in general? Thanks! SemanticMantis (talk) 16:23, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid I can't help. When I saw '1Q84' in the edit summary, I thought this might be something to do with the scrolls from Cave 1 at Qumran, but those only go up to 1Q72.

On the topic of the novel, I'm not sure why it matters how conversant Japanese people were with English in 1984, as the book came out much more recently than that. AlexTiefling (talk) 16:42, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Ha! To clarify for others: If a novel is written in Japanese in e.g. 2010 and takes place in 2010, it would be reasonable to have lots of English words sprinkled in, in both exposition and dialogue. Since the novel is set in 1984 (-mostly ;-) having normal Japanese characters dropping English words in conversation might be appropriate and normal, or it might be done for a sense of "weirdness" (which Murakami otherwise seems to love), or maybe there is not much English in the Japanese version of the novel. My main interest is if some of this wordplay is "translated" successfully and artistically, or if it is so clever that it works well in both languages. Murakami in fact has worked as an English-to-Japanese translator, and apparently at times writes portions of his own novels in English first before composing in Japanese. I guess it's a long shot that someone here has read Murakami's novels in both English and Japanese, but I'll take any insight I can get. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:09, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Both "1Q84" and "1984" are read as "Ichi-Kyū-Hachi-Yon" in ja. Arabic numerals have been used in Japan since Meiji period. See this image. Oda Mari (talk) 17:52, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

How do you correctly spell "cayotee" (i.e. a kind of jackal or hyena)?

84.228.160.74 (talk) 19:07, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Coyote is the most usual spelling. CBHA (talk) 19:14, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. 84.228.160.74 (talk) 19:19, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

They seem to be quite remotely related to hyenas, by the way... -- AnonMoos (talk) 00:06, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

...and much more closely related to jackals and wolves, in case that was unclear. —Tamfang (talk) 05:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

The coyotes I know act more like feral cats than any dog I've met. Shifty-eyed, light-footed and cowardly. Jackals and foxes are sort of the same, but not wolves. Wolves look you right in the face, and what big eyes they have. All the better to read you.

Fun Fact: Some people say the coyote's yellow eyes are actually tree sap. He lost his original eyes because he was a creepy voyeur who fortunately knew an omniscient crow. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:29, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

June 26

Need help thinking up a name for a fictional disorder

So, this character lives in a mixed furry-human universe, so there's anthropomorphic bipedal animal characters running around. This disorder causes him to perceive all characters as human; so even if he's talking to a male brown-furred anthro wolf, he sees a male brown-haired human.

What would be a good fictional name for this disorder, using like Greco-Latin roots or amybe another method of naming? 2605:A000:F9E0:C400:4963:BEDA:5687:E73F (talk) 21:26, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

How about "open-mindedness". Treating everyone the same rather than considering some superior and some inferior. Either that or maybe he's extremely nearsighted and can't tell one from the other. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:32, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

a-thero-gnosia? This would be a type of agnosia and follows the example of many of the conditions listed at that article. --Amble (talk) 21:35, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

How about Thurberneurosis? As with this idea, similar to the OP's.[9] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:38, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Homophantophrenia (homo=the genus of hominids; phanto=phantom; phrenia= fromphrenos, "mind"; see φρενός").--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Anthropophaenia (clumsily attempting to use a Greek root that may mean ‘appearance’)? —Tamfang (talk) 22:55, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Xenoagnosia? "Xeno" for them thar "fur"iners, "agnosia" for not knowing. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:30, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I'd go with Auntie Prosopagnosianna, if your character was an older woman. Since he doesn't seem to be, maybe Wembley? InedibleHulk (talk) 01:52, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

Oh wait, right. The disorder. Just antiprosopagnosia, then. What is his name, if you don't mind me asking? InedibleHulk (talk) 01:54, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

June 27

superscripts in abbreviations

In handwriting of the 18th and 19th c., you see abbreviations where the last part of the word is superscript: M^r Tho^s Quaintname. A relic of this practice is in ordinal numbers: 27^th. My question: Does any style guide positively prefer superscripting to flat writing, 27th? Or do I see it here and there only because MS Word and its imitators have that as an automatic substitution (active in the default setting)? —Tamfang (talk) 00:27, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

The practice of subscripting also stems from the Anglo-Saxon and Nordic employments of runic characters. (Same with the letter 'y' in "Ye" which was a runic character called a thorn and had a [th] sound-hence the common word "The".) In either case along those lines, I am pretty sure that neither the MLA Style Manual nor the Chicago Style Manual states anything about subscripting ordinal suffixes.

Jtg920 (talk) 03:22, 27 June 2014 (UTC)