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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by FactChecker200000 (talk | contribs) at 21:45, 1 February 2022 (→‎Anti-Semitism). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Good articleBlack Lives Matter has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 17, 2016Good article nomineeListed
October 20, 2020Good article reassessmentKept
Current status: Good article

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Why is there no mention of the riots, anarchy and violence conducted by BLM protestors?

For the most obvious reasons I think the majority of people can agree that BLM is a movement however no one can deny that violence, arson, property damage, and anarchy were a recurring aspect in 2020 after the death of George Floyd. I don't understand why this isn't mentioned in the article, are the editors of Wikipedia in complete denial of criminal acts committed by BLM activists? Or do the editors have a biased leftist agenda when it comes to certain controversial topics like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paok117 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • They're peaceful protestors Espngeek (talk) 15:35, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you have information that is supported by reliable sources, add it. That's how Wikipedia works. Or at the very least, please include links to the sources that you think are missing here. That way, other editors can review to determine whether they should be added, and add them if they have the time. As a reminder, this is a space to talk about issues with the article. It's not a space to talk about editors or launch accusations. Please stop. Dax Kirk (talk) 16:13, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Paok117: According to this study by ACLED, 93% of BLM protests were peaceful. Another study by Harvard Radcliffe Institute said "Black Lives Matter Protesters Were Overwhelmingly Peaceful". ––FormalDude talk 19:46, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your source that says 7% were violent. That should be included in the article. Baxter329 (talk) 01:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please see archive 10 for the most recent discussion of this topic, under 2 months ago. The Crab Who Played With The Sea (talk) 01:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn’t really call them “peaceful protesters” tbh they nearly burnt Minneapolis to the ground had it not been for the US national guard being deployed to stop the rioters the city would have been destroyed. They also caused $2 billion dollars worth of property damage in June 2020 alone. What is the definition of a “reliable source” btw it sounds pretty biased and censors media publications and tabloids that aren’t aligned with the political left. I’m not going to provide a reference for a news article about this because it will be discredited and censored. Paok117 (talk) 06:31, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"What is the definition of a “reliable source” btw" How long have you been editing Wikipedia? See Wikipedia:Reliable sources for the content guideline. For a list of specific sources which have already been discussed, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. Dimadick (talk) 11:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Dimadick: already tried explaining this. Take a look at their talk page. They aren't going to accept Wikipedia's views on sources. Doug Weller talk 15:20, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

More than 500 shops and restaurants in Minneapolis and St. Paul have reported damage when protests on five nights turned violent over the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police. Dozens of properties burned to the ground.

Owners and insurance experts estimate the costs of the damage could exceed $500 million.

Source: https://www.startribune.com/twin-cities-rebuilding-begins-with-donations-pressure-on-government/571075592/

Baxter329 (talk) 00:58, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Birx Says George Floyd Protests Have Resulted in the Destruction of 70 Covid-19 Testing Sites

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/dr-birx-says-george-floyd-151449109.html

Baxter329 (talk) 01:08, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Minneapolis vandalism targets include 198-unit affordable housing development

The apartments were expected to hit the market later this year.

June 27, 2020

The under-construction affordable housing development that burned in the widespread violence in south Minneapolis late Wednesday and early Thursday was to be a six-story rental building with 198 apartments for low-income renters, including more than three dozen for very low-income tenants.

Construction began last fall on Midtown Corner, which was expected to be completed and ready for occupancy this year. Late Wednesday the wood-framed upper floors of the building were fully engulfed in flames, with thick plumes of smoke that figured prominently in widely viewed photos of the riots. By Thursday morning, what had been an active construction site was reduced to a pile of smoldering ashes atop what was left of the concrete first-floor commercial space.

Source: https://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-vandalism-targets-include-189-unit-affordable-housing-development/570836742/

Baxter329 (talk) 01:12, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At least 11 killed during U.S. protests seeking justice for George Floyd, many of them African Americans

Source: https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/at-least-11-killed-during-u-s-protests-seeking-justice-for-george-floyd-many-of-them-african-americans/

Baxter329 (talk) 01:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Baxter329, spamming this talk page with news stories is not going to accomplish anything. It looks like you want George Floyd protests in Minneapolis–Saint Paul, where all of this is detailed. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:17, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why you refer to my sources as "spam." These are reliable sources, and are a direct answer to the person who started this section of the talk page. Baxter329 (talk) 01:21, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Baxter329, because you're spamming the talk page with them. This page is for the broad Black Lives Matter movement. The George Floyd protests have their own pages. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All of those articles are about BLM protestors. Therefore, they are not "spam." Baxter329 (talk) 01:40, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Baxter329, nothing that you copy-pasted here says the damage was caused by BLM protestors. You're neglecting the violence committed by right-wing groups. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:53, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It wasn't "right wing" groups who protested against the murder of George Floyd. Those were BLM protestors. Baxter329 (talk) 02:06, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And the boogaloo bois and other right-wingers used the protests to stir up violence.[1][2] – Muboshgu (talk) 02:21, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

14 Days Of Protests, 19 Dead

June 8, 2020

Though curfews are lifting and protests remain predominantly peaceful, the death toll from two weeks of demonstrations over the death of George Floyd continues to creep upward, with at least 19 people—a majority of whom are black—now dead.

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/06/08/14-days-of-protests-19-dead/

Baxter329 (talk) 01:18, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 13 January 2022

Change the link in section Reactions > "All Lives Matter" > External image to the following: https://chainsawsuit.krisstraub.com/20160707.shtml because the old link is nonfunctional. Hugo jakd (talk) 17:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Firefangledfeathers 17:27, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

BLM website said: “We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement”

But BLM took it down after it was criticized by conservatives.

Primary source: https://web.archive.org/web/20200229224723/https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Secondary source: https://www.foxnews.com/us/blm-deletes-page-disruption-nuclear-family

And here's some info from the New York Times:

We know the statistics – that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20160617074840/https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/us/politics/15text-obama.html

I'd like this wikipedia article to address why an organization that claims to care about black lives wants to get rid of the nuclear family, when the evidence from the New York Times shows how harmful that has already been to black people.

Baxter329 (talk) 01:33, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like for editors to stop treating this like a forum to make WP:POINTs. Go review WP:NOR. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:51, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia articles are supposed to present both the good and the bad about the subject. Baxter329 (talk) 02:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are supposed to present what reliable sources say. Please see WP:FALSEBALANCE. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:07, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The website that I quoted from is the very first "external link" that is cited at the end of the article. Since it's cited as an "external link," it must be the real and true BLM website. I got the quote from the same BLM website that's listed as the first "external link." It's the same website. Therefore, it must be reliable. Baxter329 (talk) 02:13, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ABOUTSELF. Have WP:SECONDARY reliable sources covered it? EvergreenFir (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As the page says, this is the article for the decentralized Black Lives Matter movement. You appear to be talking about the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:54, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The very first "external link" listed at the end of this article is https://blacklivesmatter.com/ That is the same source that I cited as the primary source of the quote. Baxter329 (talk) 01:58, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And it would also help if you don't selectively cut off your quotes. We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable. That sounds no different from what I've seen in Mormon and Orthodox Jewish communities. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:57, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The out-of-wedlock birth rate for Mormons and Orthodox Jews is extremely low. For blacks, it's more than 70%. Baxter329 (talk) 02:00, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So? That is not germane to this article. Please only use this page to discuss improvements to the article. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:08, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not the one who initiated the comparison to Mormons and Orthodox Jews. I was responding to the person who did inititiate it. Baxter329 (talk) 02:16, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
With a ridiculous comparison. This interpretation of what it means to "disrupt" the nuclear family sounds far more nefarious when you leave off the second half of the sentence. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:23, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The full quote that you cited mentions "mothers" but not "fathers." I think we should include that in the article. Baxter329 (talk) 02:17, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We don't go by what you (or I) think should be listed. Only what RS tell us is important. EvergreenFir (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Politifact quote from BLM founder Patrisse Cullors

WP:POINTY/WP:POVPUSH EvergreenFir (talk) 03:53, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

"We do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia, in particular, are trained organizers; we are trained Marxists. We are superversed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think what we really try to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many Black folks."

Source: https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/jul/21/black-lives-matter-marxist-movement/

I think this quote should be included in the article. I think the article should explain why an organization called "Black Lives Matter" supports a policy that has created nothing but death, misery, and famine in every country where it has ever been adopted. Far more black lives have been murdered by Marxist governments than by the police in democratic countries. I'd like the article to address these points.

Baxter329 (talk) 02:28, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think you may need a WP:TOPICBAN. Thoughts, EvergreenFir? – Muboshgu (talk) 02:35, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Semitism

There needs to be a section in this article concerning the founder's statements on the Jewish-American, and Jewish populations around the world. Framing them as warriors against racism and neglecting to add a full list of their controversies may lead readers to assume they do not hold racist dogmas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactChecker200000 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

FactChecker200000, and what reliable sources do you have regarding the founder's statements on the Jewish-American, and Jewish populations around the world? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:49, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some reliable sources that address this topic:
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/24/ask-politifact-black-lives-matter-anti-semitic/
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/07/1003872848/the-complicated-history-behind-blms-solidarity-with-the-pro-palestinian-movement
https://time.com/6014631/israel-apartheid-hrw-washington/
Did you even bother to read that article? Or did you just google a couple of likely terms and WP:REFSPAM? The only mention of BLM in the whole article is They are more likely to favor civil rights for minorities, whether it’s the ‘Black Lives Matter’ movement in the U.S. or overseas. FDW777 (talk) 19:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/jewish-allies-condemn-black-lives-matters-apartheid-platform-1.5421194
https://www.vox.com/world/2021/5/26/22452967/palestine-gaza-protests-black-lives-matter-blm-solidarity-israel
Baxter329 (talk) 18:17, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do not have the time right now to read these links, but I can say that supporting Palestinians does not equal anti-Semitism. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:54, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some sources I believe hold water, thank you for your quick response. These come from a variety of international sources, including the US, UK and Israel.

https://nypost.com/2021/05/21/blms-aggressive-tactics-and-rhetoric-have-led-to-attacks-on-jews/ https://spectator.org/jews-black-lives-matter-letter/ https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/black-lives-matters-jewish-problem-in-their-own-words/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/blm-should-look-to-martin-luther-king-not-malcolm-x-for-inspiration https://forward.com/news/456863/did-protesters-at-northwestern-use-an-antisemitic-slur-against-the/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by FactChecker200000 (talk • contribs) 18:59, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • See WP:RSP. New York Post is not a reliable source, especially for politically sensitive subjects. The Spectator is primarily an opinion-based publication, and should not be used for facts stated in Wikipedia's voice. Blogs are not normally reliable sources. The last one only says that someone accused them of antisemitism, not that they were anti-Semitic. --Jayron32 19:10, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blogs and unreliable sources aside, many of these sources make no mention of antisemitism or Jewish people and only comment support for Palestine or criticisms of the actions of the government of Israel. We cannot use them to throw together a subsection about antisemitism in the BLM movement. User:FactChecker200000 might come back with another dump of articles to look at, but searching through the depths of the internet to find the perfect source to make the article say what you want it to say is kind of the definition of cherry-picking, isn't it?  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 17:37, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I did indeed read said articles, the three sources you provided me were three of the most liberal publications available. Yet when I provide a variety of sources, both corporate and personal, domestic and international, you claim I am cherry-picking? In regard to your apologist sources, they dismiss any and all accusations of antisemitism as fringe groups of people involved in said protests, denying the fact that they held such beliefs, instead turning to their endorsements from Jewish advocacy groups. In your own "PolitiFact" sources, even the TLDR section states the discontent many Jews feel towards the movement. This is specifically in the graffiti and defamation which occurs during riots. And, while leaders may downplay Anti-Semitic acts, it most certainly does not speak for the group as a whole. My point in making this thread was to point out the controversies surrounding BLM. I didn't come to argue with you, rather state the obvious. My feeling here is that you are more concerned with defending BLM than including the factual information, which is the controversy surrounding how many Jews feel towards BLM rhetoric. To say there is no tension between BLM and Jewish-Americans would imply there to be little or no mention of the phenomena in major news outlets. But there is. Therefore, we must only assume there is precedence for people seeking answers on the topic. Wikipedia's job is to document a full catalogue on a particular topic, controversies very much included. The fact we are even having this conversation right now and were both able to pull from mainstream news sources to defend are case is, in fact, evidence of controversy. I am sorry you may not feel the same way as me, but I respect your right to your own opinions. However, Wikipedia is not your opinion piece, as I mentioned it is to serve as a guide to a topic, and a branch to other sources. To ignore this controversy over one of the biggest movements in history in favor of your own political beliefs is a disservice to the platform, and the reader. Thank you for your time.

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