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PetScan

I am getting incorrect results when I run PetScan. Adding a screenshot here to see if there is something I am typing wrong. Obviously the states and pages are not in a subcategory of Montana. I have had this problem on multiple searches on multiple days, so this isn't an isolated instance. Thanks! Tbennert (talk) 20:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Tbennert. "Depth 10" means 10 levels deep of subcategories. A lot can happen there, e.g. Category:Montana, Category:History of Montana, Category:Pre-statehood history of Montana, Category:Washington Territory, Category:Establishments in Washington Territory by year, Category:1854 establishments in Washington Territory, Bellingham, Washington. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! 10 is the default on the example page I use so I've never changed it. Didn't realize how much was in the subcategories.--Tbennert (talk) 23:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Tbennert. A bit of a segue perhaps, but when you create a screenshot of a Wikipedia page, it's not really you're own work that you can claim copyright ownership over per se; it's more of a case of c:COM:2D copying and c:COM:SCREENSHOT. Generally, in such cases, it's better to use a license like c:Template:Wikipedia-screenshot than a regular Creative Commons license because it takes care of all the necessary attribution required by Wikipedia's licensing without asserting you have any copyright ownership over the content of the screenshot. The template's documentation page explain the kind of information needed to use it properly. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:45, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay. I don't think I've ever inserted a screenshot before and just used the form that popped up. I'll pay more attention in the future. Thanks for pointing it out!--Tbennert (talk) 23:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Welcoming me on Wikipedia

Hello guys, my name is EnjoyBrowser557 and I joined Wikipedia in order to add information and change content in articles and sometimes respond to discussions and talk pages. Furthermore, I am still learning about the core principles that Wikipedia provided on my homepage. Would you not forget on recent technology in Wiki software? Plus, would you like to give me barnstars or thanks to me for my intelligent work? Just to know that I am new to Wikipedia, so I am still experimenting on wikicoding and understanding on how to use userboxes for my talk page. So, when I am promoted to autoconfirmed user, I will have a chance to create articles and edit semi-protected pages. When it comes to images and photos, I learned how to use a it in proper way and change the sizes and columns of the image. My only languages I speak is English, so in meantime, I would have the ability to write paragraphs and uses sources when editing articles. That would include any field of topic, I would be interested in.

So in conclusion, do you have any advice or further information that you can present to me, so I will improve my knowledge in upcoming days? How would you guide me around Wikipedia and its talk page discussion? Anyways, kudos to those who make replies to me. /EnjoyBrowser557 (talk) (contributiuons) 04:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@enjoybrowser557: you're a bit self-centered, aren't you? anyway, we have an introduction to wikipedia editing here. lettherebedarklight晚安 04:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

I am a bit self-centered? Oh wow. At the definitely least, you gave me the introduction to the Wikipedia editing. /EnjoyBrowser557 (talk) (contributiuons) 05:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Not at all! I'm sure we're all honored and humbled that you've given us permission to give you a Barnstar. Uporządnicki (talk) 16:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@AzseicsoK Alright? Yes, I update articles, however, not in all of the mainspace. You guys are all free to award me a barnstar, and suggest me articles on my talk pages, so I have the ability to make edits on them. That would include sandbox or anything possible. /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 17:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@EnjoyBrowser557 I've placed a few useful links on your Talk Page: the problem with replying here at the Teahouse is that comments rapidly get archived and can be difficult to find later. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:06, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@Lettherebedarklight @Michael D. Turnbull Alright, well thank you guys for informing about the introduction about the Wikipedia and sending me those links related to building an encyclopedia. By then, I definitely wish that I will comprehend more about the Wikipedia and its guide to improved contributions. So, have a great day! /EnjoyBrowser557 (talk) (contributiuons) 22:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

By then, I will become a autoconfirmed user and I have the potential to be skilled in developing articles that do not have one yet and addition of detail information for any reader to learn more about the topics covered. That is my own start to journey to Wikipedia adventure and its facts and statistics. /EnjoyBrowser557 (talk) (contributiuons) 21:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

How to post information that is confirmable but difficult to source

The location of a radio station's transmitter was given to me by a friend with local knowledge (who asked me to make the update). I was able to confirm it on Google Maps but could not find a static source to use as a reference. The location currently on the web site (that presumably was correct at some point but no longer is) is also unsourced. I tried to update the information but my edit was reverted because it was not referenced. I tried finding the information on the FCC's web site and the radio station's but was not able to.

As noted, the information in the current page is also not referenced. What is the best way to handle this?

In addition, is there a good source for answers to questions like this or generally a guide for people, like me, with experience editing occasionally over the years but not educated about nuances or tools that might make editing easier. Jreiss17 (talk) 14:24, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Jreiss, and welcome to the Teahouse. If the location cannot be sourced by a reliable soruce (which in this case would not need to be indepedent) then it should be removed. ColinFine (talk) 14:50, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

I am not sure. This may be a WP:BLUESKY situation that doesn't need sourcing. The coordinate location of a radio station is verifiable by anyone with a smartphone GPS who goes to the station to verify its coordinates. ~Anachronist (talk) 14:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Probably stupid question. How do you know where to go to do so, if you don't already know the coordinate location of the transmitter? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 16:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

You call, or go to the radio station's physical office address and ask them where you can have a look at the transmitter, if it's in a different location than the radio station. The verifiability burden isn't much different from going to a library to look up a book. ~Anachronist (talk) 21:09, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Oookay. Until I retired I worked for a company who carried out emergency repairs on UK mobile phone antennae (which are often mounted on masts for other things, like radio broadcasting, as well as on their own dedicated masts, or on roofs or walls of large buildings, or inside church steeples, or disguised as trees, etc.). Our company alone averaged around 100 visits a week, and we weren't the only ones in the business. A good few of those repairs were made necessary by vandalism and sabotage – stealing the cables to sell for scrap is an international criminal operation, and you might be surprised at how many people think phone/radio masts are part of a sinister government plot to infect everyone with cancer and/or Covid (yeah, really), and try to set fire to them.

While mast and other cellphone etc. antenna locations are obviously not secret, and of course within the industry we necessarily had all the information (did you know there are/were around 100,000 sites in the UK – the companies are trying to consolidate and share sites, but it's a slow process), if a random member of the public starts asking about transmitter mast locations, eyebrows might be raised and the police might want to take an interest, just in case. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 08:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Biography article

Dear Team, Ankit Kumar Pandey who's the Fit India Movement Ambassador is comes under Biography notability should i write article on him please help suggestions G20norms (talk) 18:55, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @G20norms, welcome to the Teahouse. Have you found multiple independent, reliable, published secondary sources with significant coverage of this person (see WP:42)? If so, they may well be notable. If you're not sure about your sources, you could post links to the three best sources you've found and someone here might evaluate them for you. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:03, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

If I'll provide you name and sources you can write article on him G20norms (talk) 19:12, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@G20norms, I have no desire to write an article on this person. If you have the sources and want to start writing an article, I recommend that you read Help:Your first article and follow the directions. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:23, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok got only suggest news platform like - Times of India, Hindustan Times, Hindustan, India today, Pm India office are reliable sources? G20norms (talk) 19:37, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@G20norms, looking at WP:RS/PS, The Times of India is not so great. The others are not listed there, but our Hindustan Times and India Today articles seem to indicate they would be okay. I don't know what you mean by "Hindustan" and "Pm India office" - presumably the latter is the Prime Minister's office? If so, that would be an official government source and (generally - not always) reliable. Note that sources also need to be independent and secondary, and contain significant coverage of the subject. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:47, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes Pm meant by Prime Minister office and "The Times of India" is not reliable sources? Hindustan is very popular hindi news platform. G20norms (talk) 20:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@G20norms, ah, you mean Hindustan (newspaper). Our article on that one isn't very good, unfortunately, so I can't say much about it. And yes, The Times of India has been discussed several times and judged to have a reliability between no consensus and generally unreliable - see WP:TOI, where there is an explanation and links to the various discussions. Also, if you look at this part of WP:RS/PS, you'll see a search box which will let you search through past discussions, in case you want to check whether a certain source has come up for debate before. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:34, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

And one more question i have, how can i unprotect any article from protected article G20norms (talk) 21:05, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@G20norms, you will need to make a request here. Be sure to read and follow the instructions. Note that a request to unprotect Ankit Kumar Pandey was made just yesterday and declined (here). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:09, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Dear teahouse,

Is this article draft:Ankit Kumar Pandey had any issues with citation or language tone i know you only guide please help once . G20norms (talk) 21:39, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

@G20norms, yes, it has several issues. Ravensfire pointed out some of them for you over on Materialscientist's talk page. For instance, the first 5 sources are not about Ankit Kumar Pandey; much of the information does not have supporting inline citations; and the language tends toward the promotional. Also, I'm not sure that this person is notable, but that's going to depend on the strength of those last three sources. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:49, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Same topic news articles from different different channels are accepted as inline citation G20norms (talk) 22:00, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

G20norms if you are talking about WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, this isn't really a valid argument. Other than references, you need to trim the external links section, WP:TWITTER, WP:FACEBOOK, WP:INSTAGRAM. Remove caps from section titles, making them sentence case, and put citations at the end of sentences and after punctuation (WP:REFPUNCT). Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 22:52, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Dear Sungodtemple,

Overall i have to remove caption from the image and remove External link but dear i had one question i read most of Biography they added External so please tell me my coding of the External link are wrong ot i have to remove it. G20norms (talk) 09:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

MOS:REFPUNCT reads: All ref tags should immediately follow the text to which the footnote applies, with no intervening space. [Their emphasis] (sometimes at the end of a sentence or paragraph, sometimes mid-sentence). Ref tags should be after most punctuation.

Re. external links: Exceptions are sometimes made for Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Regular websites are strongly preferred, but exceptions are made for official links when the subject of the article has no other Web presence. Does that mean picking one of the social media sites above, or allowing all three? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 09:25, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I didn't understand i have to remove provided External links all three? but understood that if article had no any web references then wikipedia consider External links like facebook, instagram or twitter. G20norms (talk) 10:10, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether you can have all three social media links (as an exception, since he has no web site) or only one, so I pose that question to other editors here. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 10:47, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I changed the headings from title case to sentence case, and punctuation before reference. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 09:32, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

You changed the title case to sentence before reference or i have to do it in draft:Ankit Kumar Pandey G20norms (talk) 10:08, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

G20norms, I've changed the headings to "Sentence case" from "Title Case", so you don't have to. I've also changed the punctuation, and made a few minor changes to the references. You can now see the changes.

There are some big gaps where text is not referenced.

(By the way, I've wikilinked some of the work entries in the references to show that they have Wikipedia articles. I've noticed two or three times with other drafts that reviewers sometimes assume that Indian or Oriental media are less noteworthy than (say) European or US media). Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 10:15, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

so can we now that article draft:Ankit Kumar Pandey is completely ok or we have to work on it for more accuracy or we can allow him for draft review submission G20norms (talk) 10:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Let's see what other editors here have to say now. Is the article ready for review? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 10:49, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Overall currently it's in under updation it's not ready for review? G20norms (talk) 10:51, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

The "Early life and background" section is unsourced. If you can't find a biography to use as a reference, you may have to first delete some or all of this section. I'm sure in the coming months, the subject will get more coverage in the media. But let's wait a while and see what other editors here now think of the draft. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 11:03, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

If you either add sources to "Early life and background" or delete that whole section, you could (if you wish, and if you feel ready, and want to go ahead), submit the draft for review, and then see what the reviewer and other commentators have to say. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 11:09, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you please if i have to add only mother's name father's name and siblings or if we had no any reference about them so how can we add them without reference. G20norms (talk) 11:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I have deleted the "Early life and background" section. All significant, and especially personal, facts in biographies of living persons need to be sourced or removed. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 12:37, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

So now the rest of article is well according to provide sources what's your opinion on it as an editor? G20norms (talk) 12:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

But news platform like The Times of India, Hindustan times, Hindustan (newspaper), India today are good platforms G20norms (talk) 10:56, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. They are reliable sources. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 11:03, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

In the above discussion sungodtemple mentioned to trim External links whats your opinion on it G20norms (talk) 11:08, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

See my answer above. Forget about changing the External links for now. This is not a "dealbreaker". There is an exception for external links for people who have no regular web site, but it's unclear whether that means you can keep all three links to social media, or only one of them. As I said above (and I've now deleted the unsourced section containing personal details), if you really want to go ahead, then submit the article for review and see what the reviewer and any commentators have to say. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 12:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, there's some notability concerns. There are three sources that mention Pandey and all three are about the same thing - being named ambassador for the fit india program. Even in those sources, it's more fluff coverage than significant coverage. I'd really, really like to see more sources about Pandey. DOB still isn't sourced. Given the history (and the SPI mentioned below), there's a very strong feel of WP:UPE/WP:COI editing here. Ravensfire (talk) 14:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Dob source how is it possible to get even i read almost Biography there's no any dob source inline and they Approved or also you can suggest what kind of source because i don't think so newspaper or something else had that G20norms (talk) 15:47, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

As I said earlier, all significant facts, especially personal details in a biography of a living person need to either be sourced or removed. I've removed date of birth, for starters, and other editors and I have rigorously "pruned" the remaining content. In time, if the subject really is notable, further articles may be published, and more facts known. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 16:37, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

What kind of source for dob are eligible G20norms (talk) 16:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

See this Biography Ankit Bathla there's no any dob sourced G20norms (talk) 16:46, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

G20norms, DOB, even place of birth, the names of relatives ... all these things need to be in independent, secondary, published, reliable sources, especially in BLPs. That means in things like newspapers, magazines, journals, books, publicly accessible official records, on the radio, television, video or audio podcasts. Whatever sources can also be verified by other editors and readers. If not, it should be removed. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 16:55, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Please also see WP:BLPPRIMARY which shows what basic facts may be – or must not be – added from primary sources. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 16:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Please also provide disclosure temple references for article lock that no one can edit without permission G20norms (talk) 17:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Have had to add "Citation needed" tags to the DOB which has been re-added in two places. I won't edit war, but as I just pointed out, WP:BLPs especially require independent, reliable, secondary, published sources for personal details. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 17:21, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@G20norms, @The haul: I give up: A whole section on personal life has again been added that is unreferenced. That is not the way to get the draft successfully reviewed. And I also have to ask how is it that the editor is in possession of so many unpublished personal details? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 17:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Theroadislong, Justlettersandnumbers, Materialscientist, Nathan2055, Jimfbleak, TheBirdsShedTears, Stwalkerster, Ankit Krs Pandey, The Fact Explorer, Nishee22, G20norms, and Esowteric: Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ankit Krs Pandey --Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 12:00, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Biden assassination attempt article?

Somebody should create an article about the guy who crashed his U Haul truck near the White House and tried to kill the US President Joe Biden

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/us/politics/truck-crash-white-house.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/23/politics/dc-uhaul-crash-charges/index.html Onion1981 (talk) 04:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Onion1981: Somebody might, if the event meets the criteria for a stand alone article (WP:NEVENT). Otherwise it may end up as part of the article on Joe Biden. RudolfRed (talk) 04:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

To me, it looks like a minor triviality at this point. but future coverage may justify an attempt to create an article. ~~\\

Onion1981, he talked about it, but DID he try to kill Biden? I have the impression he didn't get past the security barrier--a long way short of reaching Biden. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

He clearly attempted something, I'm pretty sure if POTUS wasn't the most guarded person in the world, he would be dead, js. Onion1981 (talk) 14:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Retired SME and COI

I'm a subject matter expert, retired several years ago, and I'm a beginner here. Decades back, I was entangled in the controversial stuff that made my field what it is today. I was a moderately big fish in a very small pond, and at various times I worked with competing parties on all sides. At this time and for close to 10 years, however, I have had no financial interest in the subject, the various issues have all played out, and in my heart I have reached a point of equanimity. I'd like to dig in and edit/create some articles that I'm uniquely able to craft--but if I have to declare COI and ask for help posting every sentence I write then the process will be very inefficient. Does the WP definition allow my COI to "age out," or am I cursed forever to {{request edit}} every addition and correction I post? LeggyLettuce (talk) 05:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@LeggyLettuce: Welcome, and thanks for wanting to expand and improve the encyclopedia. If you are no longer in a position that would be a conflict of interest, such as a financial relationship with the subject, then you should be fine to create and edit articles. What does "create some articles that I'm uniquely able to craft" mean? Any article you create must be supported by what reliable sources say and not by your personal experience or expertise. RudolfRed (talk) 05:33, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, @RudolfRed, and I appreciate your point about reliable sources. What I meant was that existing articles in my field have inaccurate paragraphs about technical things that are probably a nuisance for other folks to write, sandwiched between better-crafted sections on what we might consider the "cool stuff." As a subject expert, I'll have a much easier time than others fixing those technical bits. And I am pretty confident about which poorly-sourced topics and historic figures will met criteria as "notable" enough for new articles, because I have mentored and written about them before. LeggyLettuce (talk) 06:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi LeggyLettuce. You might want to take a look at WP:EXPERT since it covers users such as yourself. The thing to remember is that while your expertise is valued (or at least should be valued), it will not give you any sort of editorial control over the articles you edit. You will still be expected to follow relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines just like everyone else. This could mean that in some cases consensus might go against you no matter how right you know you are. As long as you don't start trying to use your expertise as a way of arguing that you know better than anyone else and that others should defer to you, you should be OK. Finally, you might want to consider looking to see whether they are any WikiProjects that cover the subjects you're interested in. WikiProjects are good places to find others with similar interests and also perhaps who are also "content experts". They also can be good places to learn how things are done on Wikipedia. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for responding, @Marchjuly. I did not know about WP:EXPERT; thank you for that suggestion! And yeah, I get what you're saying about (I'll paraphrase) not getting all bossy about being the expert. Fortunately for everyone concerned, decades of university teaching do tend to grind off the sharper edges of one's ego, and offspring file down anything remaining after that. Interestingly enough, the WikiProjects topics closest to my heart are well populated with complementary souls; but I have not yet spotted any that align directly with me--ergo, I think, the alternating paragraph situation I mentioned previously. Maybe I have found a niche--fingers crossed. LeggyLettuce (talk) 07:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Can someone here review my drafts?

Draft:Martin Lefebvre & Draft:Dylan Fabre. I'd like any comments on how to imrpove them and you could maybe fix possible mistakes and typos i make. --Cheers! Kilaseell - Message me! - 06:18, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Kilaseel. Since both your drafts are about hockey players, you might get some good advice from the members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey since that's where you're likely to find Wikipedia users who have experience working on such articles. At first glance, the drafts look OK to me. I would remove the flag icon from the infobox of the Fabre draft per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG and perhaps try and figure out a better way to incorporate the in-body image in the Fabre draft, but the formatting of both otherwise looks OK (at least to me). Maybe some other cleanup per MOS:NUMERAL as well. None of the things I've mentioned, however, will have any impact on whether either draft is accepted as an article. One important thing to rememeber is WP:OVERCOME, particularly since the notability sub-guideline for athletes recently underwent a pretty thourough revision and is stricter than it perhaps prevoiously was. Whether either of these two players meet that guideline would be a good think to ask the members of WikiProject Hockey about. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:34, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Linking to Kiss the band

If I want to link to Kiss, The band, how do I do it? Seaparrot876 (talk) 10:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

by using that button that looks like a chain, or ctrl + k. proper usage should result in something like this cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 11:28, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Seaparrot876 By creating a wikilink like Kiss (band). There are various tricks described at WP:LINK which explain how to do this so that the link is simpler visually to the reader, as in Kiss, but goes to the correct article, not, for example Kiss. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:37, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

With wikitext, see Help:Link, with VisualEditor, see Help:Introduction to editing with VisualEditor/3. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Drafting an article

hello! tried to publish my first article and got rejected... anyone able to help? article is: Draft:Roger Starr JcwDenno (talk) 11:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, JcwDenno and welcome to the Teahouse.Try to find at least three independent, secondary, reliable sources that cover the subject in-depth, to show notability. See the golden rule. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 11:42, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

thank for for this, will refer to the golden rule like a new bible ! JcwDenno (talk) 11:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

JcwDenno, as the decline message says, This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia. The New York Times ones are not independent, since Starr worked for the New York Times. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 11:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

thank you for this, silly old me did not realise, still getting the hang of all this JcwDenno (talk) 11:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@JcwDenno Note that they may still have use as sources, but may not help in the WP:N sense. Try archive.org, google isn't great with old stuff, but things like [1] can still pop up. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:03, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@JcwDenno A simple Google search shows that Starr wrote extensively, so some valid sources would be reviews of his work. I used The Wikipedia Library (which, unfortunately you do not yet qualify to join) to find some. I'll post the ones that seem to me to be most useful into the draft or its Talk Page when I get time later.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:52, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@JcwDenno As I suspected, there are heaps of good independent references that will easily take Starr to adequate notability. I've added a few to the draft and you could access them to expand the limited text I've already included. If you can't reach the original sources then contact me by email (via my Userpage) and I'll send you the .pdfs, which for copyright reasons I can't post here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Delete all my creations

I would like to get my all contributions deleted to make a new article with all the improvements Jagriti.sri (talk) 11:53, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: User talk:Manglesh Kumar Srivastava. Hi, Jagriti.sri and welcome to the Teahouse. Is this the page you wish to delete? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 12:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

yes and even this https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Drmangleshbjp&direction=prev&oldid=1156728183 Jagriti.sri (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Jagriti.sri, simply delete from the draft material that you don't want there, and replace that material with material that you do want there. -- Hoary (talk) 12:26, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

video

can you make a lyric video for me Svh4dd (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

No, Svh4dd, encyclopedias don't make videos to meet individual requests. -- Hoary (talk) 12:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Changing a title

How do I change the title of an article I created? this is the link to my article: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Ben_Woods&oldid=1156748919 I'd like to change it to Ben Woods (Guitarist) since there is an article already titled Ben Woods Acj.15.acj (talk) 12:25, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Got it, nevermind! Acj.15.acj (talk) 12:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Article improving suggestions

Dear Teahouse I got totally confused but I'll try hard as much i can please suggest any mistakes in this article name Draft:Ankit Kumar Pandey which one is I'll created it is comes under wikipedia submission or not G20norms (talk) 12:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, G20norms. See your open question, Biography article above. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 13:03, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

If you're confused and need a TL;DR ("too long; didn't read") response, I would say: All significant, and especially personal details need to be either sourced or removed. So I removed the "Early life and background" section. Forget about the External links for now. If the subject has no web site presence, exceptions can be made to link to social media sites instead, but it's unclear whether that means that all three sites can remain or if you need to pick one. This is not a "dealbreaker", however, and that can be sorted out later by you or other editors.

If you really want to go ahead, then click the big blue button labelled "Submit the draft for review!" and follow the instructions. Then wait patiently, and see what the reviewer and any other commentators have to say. If necessary, come back here to The Teahouse for further advice. Regards, Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 13:13, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay thanks G20norms (talk) 13:53, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

One more question please suggest what are reliable tags is good for this article. G20norms (talk) 14:00, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Give suggestions

Can you please review or give suggestions on my 2 drafts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Bhai_Satta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Raja_Rasalu ਗਿਆਨੀ ਪੁਰਸ਼ (talk) 12:51, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@ਗਿਆਨੀ ਪੁਰਸ਼ Bhai Satta is great but the other one is terrible for wikipedia and it just reads like folklore 216.168.139.239 (talk) 13:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Apps articles

Hi, I want to write some articles about some mobile apps I use and would like to know the best practices and what should I avoid when it comes to writing about software? Bluepen'n'paper (talk) 13:30, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Bluepen'n'paper, creating an article is the toughest task you can perform on Wikipedia. See WP:YFA if you want to continue. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 13:47, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bluepen'n'paper You might like to look at some typical articles created by members of this Project and then read this essay. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:13, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Translate text!!!!!!!Please

hello . How are you? Can you translate text(history) abaout Nora en Pure fom eanglisch to polisch? i speaking in eanglisch more on less but good be read her history in polisch.Cheers. P00int666 (talk) 14:34, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @P00int666, welcome to the Teahouse. You'll find many people fluent in English on English Wikipedia, but not so many in Polish. If you want an article translated into Polish, it might be more useful to ask around on Polish Wikipedia, which is where the article would end up anyway. They seem to have an equivalent to the Teahouse at this link. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I want to submit an article for an artist

Hello !1

Can anyone please help me with a draft i am making for an artist how can i fix it and how to be accepted . Draft:TEDD TeddXhika (talk) 14:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

TeddXhika Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. What help are you looking for? You have already resubmitted the draft and the reviewer will leave you feedback, as a previous reviewer did.

You say this is "for" the musician. What is your association with them? 331dot (talk) 15:02, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

There is little to no chance your draft will be accepted in its current state. Your first citation is to a Google search: your job as editor is to evaluate whether any of the Google hits can be used as sources meeting Wikipedia's golden rules and if so to paraphrase them and cite them in detail. The other sources do not seem to be WP:independent of TEDD and as such do not demonstrate he is notable in the way we define that. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:06, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@TeddXhika, do you know this artist personally? You have apparently taken a very close-up picture of them. You may need to review our guideline on editing with a conflict of interest - WP:COI. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:09, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@TeddXhika: Welcome to the Teahouse. Your username matches that of the subject. If you are the subject, please understand that writing an article about yourself is vehemently discouraged. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:24, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I may need help with my article due to my grammar

Im not a native english speaker and i am not so good at writing articles: i wrote one for a notable actor and alleged voice actor for a game

Alexandra cristina echavarri Lecároz

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Cristina_Echavarri

Thoughts? Any advice or help? Thanks! Ayyyple2 (talk) 15:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Ayyyple2, welcome back. Grammar is the least of your worries here, I'm afraid. Your article is about a living person, but it has no inline citations, only a list of external links at the end, and most of those are useless as far as establishing that this person is notable. It's very likely that your article will be moved to draft space because it's not ready to be part of the encyclopedia yet. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:15, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thats a Shame, if its a living person with a few popular roles... i mean Ayyyple2 (talk) 15:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2 it's all about the sources, especially in a BLP. It would have been better if you'd created a draft to start with, worked on it, then submitted it to AfC. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:25, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2 I have moved the article back to draft space since it was clearly not in line with WP:BLP guidelines. You can work on it again at Draft:Alexandra Cristina Echavarri. You should first read the guidance at the BLP link and this essay. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:32, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Do you want to help me on it Ayyyple2 (talk) 16:06, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

No, folk like me who help out by answering questions at the Teahouse rarely want to be involved in drafting articles, as we have our own interests. I occasionally do help, as with Draft:Roger Starr earlier today but that's the exception which I did because it was clear to me Starr was going to be notable but just needed a few more references which I could provide. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I dont know what good external references are.. and the images, how do i do that? Ayyyple2 (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Do you know someone that could help? Ayyyple2 (talk) 20:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2 In Wikipedia, we refer to "good external references" as those that come from reliable sources. Read that linked article carefully and note, for example, that IMDb is not one of them. Once you have found a good source, incorporate it into the article using inline citations. Don't worry about images for the present: your hurdle is to convince experienced editors that Echavarri is notable by Wikipedia's definition. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:27, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Shes a notable actor but i have no idea what sources to add!! Im thinking of making of Bryan Zampella, another actor... for example what are Good sources. I edit on my phone Ayyyple2 (talk) 13:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2, maybe it would help to look at a Good or Featured Article on an actor and see the sources they use - for instance, Florence Pugh. Or you could visit this list of frequently discussed sources and see which are good, which are bad, and the reasons for those determinations. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:06, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I updated my article, i mean shes a notable actor, i added good sources... but maybe i need help Ayyyple2 (talk) 15:13, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2, there are still zero inline citations. Have you read WP:BACKWARD, which Mike Turnball linked you to above?

Erase everything. Start over. Gather only your reliable sources. Read them, summarize the information, and place that summary in the draft, with inline citations to the sources. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:18, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Citations? How do i do that? 2001:9E8:4742:E800:6C86:5824:5C34:BC88 (talk) 06:20, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2: Please see Help:Referencing for beginners, and remember to log in. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:21, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

That looks hard... im on my phone so its gonna be hard .. i just dont know tbh 2001:9E8:4742:E800:6C86:5824:5C34:BC88 (talk) 07:07, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Adding a complicated citation.

Hello,

Thank you for your help in advance. I want to do a citation for the article that I am creating that looks like the second citation in the Wayne Gretzky article. How do I do that? I appreciate your help. Orlando Davis (talk) 16:08, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Orlando Davis and welcome to the Teahouse. Like so:

<ref> * cite 1 * cite 2 </ref> with each bulleted cite on a new line. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 16:16, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Orlando Davis (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Ulrich Kutschera

Why contains this Article so many false statements and errors? hy are key references ignored? Why can Wikipedia not write objective, unbiased CVs on controversial living people? For instance, Ulrich Kutschera is a Scientist- "Professor of Biology", an author of 16 books, and musician, he released 5 CDs with own compositions. Why does Wikipedia not report that he tudies Biology-Chemistry and the Theory of Music? Diwata2 (talk) 16:28, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is made up of thousands of volunteers working to improve the more than 6 million English Wikipedia articles. They tend to work on projects they have a special interest in. You may want to read Help:Referencing for beginners, find some excellent reliable references, and improve the article that you feel is incorrect. Best wishes on your efforts to improve Wikipedia. Karenthewriter (talk) 16:53, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Creating an Article

When I'm on the "That page does not exist" page I click "Start creating", then "Next",Then "Next" again, then "I'm not connected to the subject" then I [ut in the draft name and it takes me back to "That page does not exist" page! Am I doing something wrong? Graham98765 (talk) 16:56, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Graham98765 I think that the problem is that you are editing from a new account and are therefore not allowed to directly create a new mainspace article. Use the WP:AfC process (see that link) and you should be fine, although creating acceptable articles is more difficult than you might imagine. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Graham98765, it sounds like you are trying to use the Article Wizard mentioned above, but it's not working. Can you tell us the name of the draft you're trying to create? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Yugoslav Commemorative War Cross Graham98765 (talk) 17:11, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Graham98765, here is Draft:Yugoslav Commemorative War Cross. I created it simply by clicking on a red link. I'm not sure why it wasn't working for you. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:16, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

IP editor. Very likely because the OP did a search for "Yugoslav Commemorative War Cross" and then tried directly to create it from the red-link below the search box rather than the link which creates a draft. The latter method should have worked but the former only works for WP:AUTOCONFIRMED editors. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull, from their description, it sounds like they clicked on the Article Wizard link in You can create a draft and submit it for review, got to this part, and then it bugged out on them. I couldn't replicate the issue, though. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you all very much for the help! Graham98765 (talk) 17:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Graham98765, I have fixed the formatting in your draft - I'm not sure why the text was added as a table. You have cited no sources, so I'm afraid your draft will be declined. Where did you get the information? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:56, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

In fact, it was declined just moments ago. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't know to add sources, but I used this one. http://www.omsa.org/files/jomsa_arch/Splits/1967/417116_JOMSA_Vol18_1_10.pdf Graham98765 (talk) 18:10, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Graham98765, it would be a good idea to read Help:Referencing for beginners, or - even better - to go through Help:Introduction. References are added - at a most basic level - by putting the source information (title, link, etc.) between <ref> and </ref>. Even better is to use a citation template. Also, subjects of Wikipedia articles must be notable. You will need to find reliable, independent, published secondary sources that have significant discussion of this medal, summarize them, and cite them. See WP:42 for further explanation. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:16, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Apparently there may be a bit of a problem due to a recent change. See this post at VPT. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:50, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Help in finishing this Translation of the article on german Gender Studies scholar Heidi Schelhowe

Hello, I made a Translation of a German Wikipedia article and would like to finish it. I still struggle with doing the last steps on my own. The current Translation should move to a normal article The Article on my userpage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aberlin2/Heidi_Schelhowe @CaroleHenson maybe you are interested to help. I remember your amazing support with the Marie Burde Article. Aberlin2 (talk) 17:24, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, sure Aberlin2, I will finish up on an article in a bit and then go take a look at the article about Heidi Schelhowe.–CaroleHenson (talk) 20:17, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Why do people argue Wikipedia does not have an ideology?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Why do people argue Wikipedia does not have an ideology?

Wikipedia and it's editors clearly have a set of beliefs, then why do people frequently argue it is ideologically neutral?

and i do not mean ideological bias, i am talking about the idea that Wikipedia's policy and editor culture itself constitutes an ideology.

This must have come up more often, but a brief search turns up nothing. Bart Terpstra (talk) 17:58, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra our "ideology" is that we should be neutral, it's not that hard to understand unless you read into it too much 216.168.139.239 (talk) 18:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

but a definition of neutral is ideological, right?

A definition of what is neutral is not neutral or objective itself, right?

It also obviously carries with it a belief why neutrality is a value people should have in the first place. Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra of course rules about neutrality are not neutrally created otherwise there would be no rules at all 216.168.139.239 (talk) 18:30, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Bart Terpstra, welcome to the Teahouse. Who is arguing that Wikipedia doesn't have an ideology? Anyone who contributes here probably has certain, rather obvious views on wikis, encyclopedias, the internet, the free spread of information, etc. It doesn't belong in our articles, but it does permeate everything else we do. This is entirely separate from WP:NPOV. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I frequently run into people saying WP:NPOV is objective and neutral, also often citing WP:NOT.

That introducing a new point of view is WP:PROMOTION, that by adding a new point of view, i am taking part in an ideological battle and that Wikipedia is not a political forum.

But if Wikipedia has an ideology, then at the very least, it's a political forum about itself and the interpretation of the guidelines. Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:20, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra, Wikipedia's goal is to have articles which represent fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic. That is our definition of neutrality in terms of article content. It may not align with other definitions of neutrality (in fact it definitely doesn't), but that's what has been agreed upon over the years. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

but how do you establish proportionality? Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

By how other reliable sources do it. If reliable sources don't give mention to a perspective, we don't either. --Jayron32 18:31, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

but the decision on what is and is not a reliable source is itself an ideological choice, right? Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:33, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra ACtually it's usually based on if it's been reliable in the past 216.168.139.239 (talk) 18:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

this is begging the question. you say X is X because it has been X in the past to a question asking what X is. Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

If it's in dispute, by discussion to reach a consensus. Wikipedia runs on consensus. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:32, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

and this consensus forming process is a political process, right? Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

We make many ideological choices when running Wikipedia. Again, @Bart Terpstra, NPOV is only about what goes into articles. Not about what happens outside of them. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Then how should i handle it when people accuse me of having editorial beliefs about what is significant and they belief that it's political/not neutral/ideological/soapbox, etc.

and citing that neutral point of view includes this point of view and that the view meets the criteria of notability is not convincing. Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra You seem to hate police and support anarchy to an extent and wrote a one sentence one reference draft of some socialist group and when it got rejected you called it vandalism and it really seems like you are doing Wikipedia wrong you should take a break. 216.168.139.239 (talk) 18:52, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

sorry, i'm actually for law enforcement and have significant criticisms of anarchism.

the single sentence draft was because that's how i read the guidelines on translated article creation, this has been cleared up to me.

i deleted the "your draft has been rejected" in my talk page, because really, that should be a private message or notification, i thought it was fun to label the deletion "vandalism", not that anyone would actually go through the trouble to look.

If Wikipedia is created by consensus, then you can't do Wikipedia wrong, just non-conformist :p Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Obligatory link to: Yes. We are biased.. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I am aware, but how do i succinctly make the case that content that is from a credible source, meets notability requirements and should get more coverage in the article, is not political/neutral/fair/not a soapbox/etc? Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra, you could make the best case in the world, but find out that others interpret Wikipedia's policies/guidelines/etc. differently, and that consensus is against you. In that case, walk away. It's hard and frustrating sometimes, yes. That's one reason why Wikipedia isn't a good environment for everyone. It may just be that editing here isn't a good fit for you as a hobby. Or maybe you just need to take a break for awhile. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:45, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, it makes me want to write WP:IDEOLOGY or Wikipedia:Wikipedianism, which is an overview of it's set of beliefs, how they are regulated, theory and influences, but mostly clearing up the idea that WP does not have an ideology or POV itself. Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:49, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, as far as I know, @Bart Terpstra, you're perfectly free to create an WP:ESSAY. Heck, I just linked to a user space essay a few posts ago - a very popular one, yes, but only a user space essay in the end. You can go and create one too. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:52, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

But it's not an essay, it's a notable topic of interest that exists in the world and wikipedia would benefit from it's inclusion :p Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:58, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra, citation needed. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

mgr joke goes here cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 19:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

What is an mgr joke? Do I have to call the manager? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

"MY SOURCE IS THAT I MADE IT THE FUCK UP" cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 19:26, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

MGR, meaning "Metal Gear Rising", which has seen a resurgence in its popularity, mostly because kojimas writing is felt as relevant and relatable longer explanation. Bart Terpstra (talk) 19:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah ha. I never got into the Metal Gear franchise. [files away yet another meme for future reference] 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:37, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

this is a question i actually asked myself a few [insert time unit here]s ago, and the answer i got ended up being "this isn't really worth overthinking tbh"

wikipedia says what reliable sources say, so it's as neutral as the sources themselves are cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 18:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an ideology, but that isn't socialism, liberalism, conservatism, or communism, but it is generally kowtowing to the mainstream academic views. tgeorgescu (talk) 19:32, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I mean, it has to be closest to a centrist flavour of Liberalism, if we were going to create a political Taxonomy.

Wikipedia shares most of it's values, but notably skeptical of democracy and copyright. Bart Terpstra (talk) 19:38, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you name a single paradigm that does not have an associated ideology? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

There is a common belief that what is normal is not political, only what disagrees with normal is political.

yet, normal is not a natural or objective state of affairs and is better characterized as the prevailing political reality, rather than an apolitical reality, which does not really exist the same way an objective reality does not exist.

I do not consider Wikipedia running on an ideology an issue at all, but I do consider an appeal to normalcy or apoliticism a terrible argument when the subject itself is political, such arguments should be made through the lense of Wikipedia's Ideology instead.

It sneaks in through people's understanding of notability and neutral point of view, which generally seems to rate the status quo as more notable and neutral than alternatives or criticisms of the status quo, the editors theory of history and what it says is "realistic". An example of this would be "how notable are historic women". Bart Terpstra (talk) 19:50, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

i just realized something

did this devolve into a string of "yet you live in a society"? cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 20:06, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I think it's de-or-e-volved into discussions of the philosophical underpinnings of Wikipedia. There's probably a place to have such discussions - it's not the Teahouse, though. Maybe WP:VPM? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:09, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

That is part of the arguments against Wikipedia having an ideology: that Wikipedia does not advocate a position and it's existence is apolitical through proper execution of WP:NPOV and WP:NOT. Bart Terpstra (talk) 20:09, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra, are you looking to change policy? For action against individual editors? Or just discussion? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:14, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

for the former two cases, the teahouse is a terrible bad not even good place to start the thing

for the latter, wikipedia is a terrible bad not even good place to do it in general

but this conversation quit taking itself seriously ages ago, so i don't think it matters cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 20:15, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, I'd prefer that this discussion reach some sort of conclusion, and not grow into a horrible, unending monster that takes over the Teahouse forever. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:18, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

i hear admins have the mystical power to close conversations

maybe we could pray for their blessing? cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 20:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

But if we don't arrive at a satisfactory resolution, how will we find closure, admin or otherwise? Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 20:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Maybe we could all just go get drinks. Anyone know an appropriate place for that? Some kind of... drink room? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:24, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

understanding of Wikipedia as a new editor and how to counter arguments that rely on Wikipedia being a neutral, objective, apolitical institution as an argument to deny additions to wikipedia that would otherwise comply with all the rules.

a proposal might be a page that explains this, but that is for elsewhere. Bart Terpstra (talk) 20:21, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra, see WP:Dispute resolution. Pursue the various steps described. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

that is conduct, not what is the best way to phrase it/argue it. Bart Terpstra (talk) 20:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Bart Terpstra, that's more or less something you have to work out for yourself, I think. This isn't really a place to workshop replies in content disputes. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Help with Cite Errors

Calvin Lo (businessman)

How do I remove cite errors? and what are they for? Need help.

Thanks. Simonriley1994 (talk) 20:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Simonriley1994, welcome to the Teahouse. That article uses a rather unusual reference style, and when a new editor added new references to the article, the two styles clashed. I have removed the now unused references from the reflist, which fixed the errors (I also removed the external links section, which was full of not-really-appropriate links - a link or two to the subject's personal websites would be fine). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hey, Thank you so much for this! Also, thank you so much for the fixing the external links tag as well (that would have been my second question). Simonriley1994 (talk) 21:58, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

How to make a correction to an article from a non-editor?

I contribute to Wikipedia financially, but I do not have the wherewithal to make corrections to articles. In the recent past, I somehow requested a simple correction be made to an article by a regular (volunteer) editor and someone was kind enough to do it. I hope I can do that again. The mistake is very easily confirmed from another article on Wikipedia and is not controversial even though the article with the mistake is political in nature. I am sure that the mistake was not originally a mistake because the map has been redrawn since the article was first published. Article to be corrected: Arizona's 6th congressional district Mistake: "Several mountain ranges run through the district with the highest peak in the Chiricahua Mountains at 9,796 feet" Correction found on Wikipedia article: Mount Graham The correction should say: "Several mountain ranges run through the district with the highest peak in the Pinaleño Mountains at 10,724 feet (3,269 m)" 174.18.39.110 (talk) 21:08, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, welcome to the Teahouse. Someone may come along to make the change for you, but for future reference, you can go to the talk page of any article - in this case, Talk:Arizona's 6th congressional district - and make a post explaining the correction to be made, which someone else might then act upon. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. Tacking on to the answer of the IP editor who answered you, you're more likely to get an interested editor's attention on that talk page if you formulate an edit request. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 22:25, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

How do I appeal a mod undoing my edit?

I added several new entries to the following page:

List of nicknames used by Donald Trump

My additions were accurate with citations.

A mod replied they had 'undone' them because 'they did not appear constructive', however the information I added was consistent with the rest of the information on the page, so this appears to be totally arbitrary.

I replied to the mod notice, and there has been no response.

User talk:2603:8001:6501:4DB7:0:0:0:C5

This was my first contribution to Wikipedia, and it was immediately deleted without cause, as far as i can tell, based on the whim of a single person. 2603:8001:6501:4DB7:0:0:0:C5 (talk) 21:56, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Without looking at your edit, I will say that is normal process for Wikipedia. It is called WP:BRD, for Bold, Revert, Discuss. You added something to an article, another editor did not agree with it and reverted. The next step is to discuss it with the other editor at the article's page. RudolfRed (talk) 22:16, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

RudolfRed made a (rare) typo there. For "the article's page", read "the article's talk page"; in this instance, Talk:List of nicknames used by Donald Trump. -- Hoary (talk) 07:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Looking at your edit, I can see that the citation you provided was to Trump's Twitter feed (i.e. a primary source), whereas other citations are to secondary sources. Heading off to the article talk page, then to the archives thereof, I could find this discussion that established that only nicknames "picked up" by secondary sources should be used (else the list would become unduly long).

Now, as new editor, you are not expected to find this out by yourself, and the editor who reverted you would have done well to link to that discussion. That being said, the principle that one person edits, another reverts, both discuss is rather standard. You should not take it personally if your edits are reverted. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 08:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I see, thank you for your reasonable explanation, i will remedy this by re-adding with secondary sources, however he also removed 'meatball ron' for ron desantis which is based on secondary sources, with the new york times being the first to break it. 2603:8001:6501:4DB7:0:0:0:C5 (talk) 09:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Make sure to read the first post in the discussion I linked to. The criteria are at least one secondary source describing it as a nickname, used by Trump at least twice, and lasting coverage. (Maybe "Meatball Ron" qualifies, I haven’t checked. The least I touch this kind of articles, the better I feel - but by the same token I am happy that others take on the dirty work of maintaining them.) Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 11:47, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

2603:8001... Just to clear up one misunderstanding. Wikipedia does not have moderators. All editors have equal standing and the one who reverted you is as entitled to do so as anyone else. We do have administrators who, by consensus, have been given access to certain tools to allow them to, for example, block those who have abused the policies but these individuals have no powers to insist on a particular version of an article being used: see WP:OWN. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:12, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

How to create a custom signature?

I have preferences at the settings and I utilize the wiki makeup. I did some minor changes for my own signature. However for color, it is completely unique. For my own, can you please explain how to create a custom signature with bolding and adding colors to it? And I wanted my signature to be unique like other users who did it, is there a coding to make the signature work in a unusual way? And how to customize it with different fonts, similar to other user's signatures? /EnjoyBrowser557 (talk) (contributiuons) 21:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

EnjoyBrowser557 this is usually done with <span></span> tags. For example, <span style="color: red; font: 10px Arial;">test</span> would turn into test. This W3Schools CSS reference may help. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 22:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

There you go, I now have my own custom signature. /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributiuons) 22:44, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

You may want to spell check your signature as you misspelled "contributions." Esolo5002 (talk) 12:15, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

that's been bugging me for a while now too cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 12:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Esolo5002 @Cog-san Well, I actually fixed that typo in my custom signature. I might need to try further changes if I have access to fonts and images. /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 15:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

haha yes cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 15:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Cog-san Thank you for notifying the typo on my custom signature and the error you found. I will improve my detection when it comes to changing signatures or other things. /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 17:43, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Global and local accounts and blocks

Hello, I have been recently unblocked on en.wikipedia.org via admin consensus by 331dot, Deepfriedokra and Valereee here. While I was blocked, I accidentally created a local account on ru.wikipedia.org. This happened when I was logged into my global account on Freerow2 and I visited a page on ru.wikipedia.org. I had no idea that this was going to create a local account, nor did I know that there were such things as local accounts tied to a global account. I had no intention of creating a local account there, nor did I make any edits there. When I was asking questions in IRC, Operator873 pointed out that I was also blocked there via providing this link. That's when I learned about the existence of that local account and the block there.

I would like to get unblocked from that local account, and also would like to delete that local account if possible. How would I go about doing this and where should I turn to?

I am also curious whether that block was valid. I made no edits there and didn't even know that a local account was made. The block reason says "cross-wiki abuse", but I don't see any abuse.

Also I'm wondering what is meant by "account creation disabled" when one is blocked. Does this mean global account creation or local account creation?

Thanks. Freerow2 (talk) 23:17, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

@Freerow2: Accounts cannot be deleted. If you are blocked on ru Wikipedia, you will need to appeal the block there, admins here cannot help with that. But, if you are not planning to use the ru account, just leave it be since the block won't matter. RudolfRed (talk) 00:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Is there any way to cite the Ethereum blockchain for historical accuracy of NFTs?

Citations of public blockchains. Snarflakes (talk) 23:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

No, you can't cite blockchains. You can cite other sources that discuss the blockchain. RudolfRed (talk) 23:46, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. Citing on-chain Ethereum transactions would be an excellent objective historical documentation strategy. To the powers that be here. Snarflakes (talk) 23:56, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

It would seem to me that a blockchain is merely a WP:PRIMARY source, and therefore subject to the same kind of caveats as other primary sources, but by the same token could be used for the same purposes. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 11:49, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Citations from Ancestry.com

Is there a correct method for citing from Ancestry.com? Do I simply use the URL that I get via access from the Wikimedia Foundation, or is there a stable URL that has to be used? If so, where do I find it? Thank you kindly. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:33, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

CurryTime7-24 Hello. According to WP:ANCESTRY, you should be very careful in using it as a source. Secondary sources are preferable. 331dot (talk) 23:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I know that, which is why I wasn't asking about that. I already have plenty of reliable secondary sources prepared for the subject I'm writing about. My usage of these primary sources from Ancestry.com is merely to establish date of birth and national origin of the subject's parents, which are covered by points 1 and 3 of WP:PRIMARY. Please, if somebody could answer my actual question, I'd appreciate it very much. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, just trying to help as I don't know what you know. 331dot (talk) 00:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

It's OK. I'm very sorry for my grouchy reply. I know you were trying to help and I appreciate that. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 01:20, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you post the URL? I don't know the answer to your question offhand but I could at least see if the URL works for someone without a login / with a different login. -- asilvering (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

• Take care with using primary sources in biographies. "Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses." (bold mine). Generally, we require secondary sources for such information, NOT primary documents such as birth records or census records. --Jayron32 17:56, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Confused and dazed

I am curious about this. We have WP:CRYSTALBALL, however to me it seems to conflict with the following:

Future dates in |date= in CS1|2 citations are limited to current year + 1; that is, for 2023, citation dates in 2024 are acceptable but citation dates in 2025 and beyond are not.

This was taken directly from category:CS1 errors: dates.

If we cannot predict the future and even have a policy about not using it, then how can we possibly cite something that is not yet published a year out?

Thanks 2600:8801:CA05:EF00:B8AD:279A:C136:BF69 (talk) 01:35, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I assume this is to allow for publications like magazines that may be dated in advance of when it actually becomes available. For example, the January 2024 issue may become available in December 2023. RudolfRed (talk) 01:44, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Compare to The "access_date" param in the citations is for the actual date that it was accessed, so it is limited to today + one day to account for time zones. RudolfRed (talk) 01:46, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Relatively common in academic books, too. -- asilvering (talk) 02:04, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Citation amd references

Dear all, I made an article and was declined due to sources in references. How can I make it reliable in matter of citation and reference? TronPuzzle (talk) 03:20, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Pol Corpas Cuatrecasas is the draft article. Karenthewriter (talk) 04:05, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reliable sources is a long, but detailed guide on determining whether a source is reliable. I recommend you at least have a skim over it. Carpimaps ^{talk to me!} 05:05, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@TronPuzzle: I've just answered this question at the AfC Help Desk (and noticed that you've also asked it on your own talk page). Please don't ask the same question everywhere, it just wastes volunteer time. Thank you. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 05:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

help?

can you guys help me review a draft post? Dr.Rodriguez777 (talk) 06:55, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Are you asking about your recently deleted creation, Dr.Rodriguez777? It didn't cite any sources, and therefore gave the reader no reason to believe anything that it said. -- Hoary (talk) 07:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Dr.Rodriguez777, and welcome to the Teahouse. I can't seem to find a draft article created by you. However, I did manage to find a Speedy deletion request on your user talk page. It looks like your sandbox had an article draft on it that was deleted for containing too much self-promotion. Whilst I can't access your sandbox, I can presume that this was the "draft post" you are referring to. Wikipedia is not the place for unambiguous advertising or promotion. Check the links for more information. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 07:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Dr.Rodriguez777, I am an administrator and have the ability to read deleted content. Your sandbox draft was unreferenced and overtly promotional. Please be aware that self-promotion is not permitted on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 16:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Where is Schengen located

Where is Schengen located 182.160.110.130 (talk) 07:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

If only there were something like a free-access encyclopedia that provided such information! -- Hoary (talk) 07:29, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, wouldn't it be grand! Ariconte (talk) 07:54, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Try Schengen Area. Ariconte (talk) 07:56, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Try Schengen (disambiguation). -- Hoary (talk) 08:09, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

To be clear, this is not a question for the Teahouse, but for the reference desk. The Tips of Apmh 15:46, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

The Tips of Apmh, it has a superficial resemblance to a question for the reference desk. But since Wikipedia already makes it extraordinarily easy to find the answer, it's not a question that should be asked anywhere. -- Hoary (talk) 00:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Need help on publishing an article

Hello, so I am writing an article on an energy drink, however I have received a notification of claiming if it is a paid contribution as it is against guidelines. How do I go about it as it is not paid? Wikiwriter-12023 (talk) 09:18, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikiwriter-12023 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. If you are not a paid editor, simply respond to the message you were given on your user talk page that you are not a paid editor. Note that "paid editor" is not limited to specific payment for edits; any paid relationship, like employment, triggers the disclosure requirement. Do you have any relationship with this drink?

Your draft was deleted as blatant promotion. Any article about it should not talk up the drink in a promotional manner, it should matter of factly summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage say about the drink, showing how it is notable as Wikipedia defines it. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Wikimedia commons

What would be the most appropriate way to source photo of a well known celebrity without infringing wikipedia rules Plkmehta (talk) 09:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

The easiest way is to take the image yourself. Commons only hosts "free" images, those with a license that permits reuse for any purpose with attribution. Random images on the internet are almost never acceptable. Do you have an association with this celebrity? 331dot (talk) 10:05, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

See WP:UPIMAGE. 331dot (talk) 10:06, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Give suggestions/please review

Can someone review or give suggestions on my two arrticles?

1. Draft:Jathera (Shrine)

2. Draft:Bhai Satta ਗਿਆਨੀ ਪੁਰਸ਼ (talk) 13:37, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

ਗਿਆਨੀ ਪੁਰਸ਼ Hello and welcome. You have submitted your drafts for review, as it says at the top of your draft, there are thousands of drafts awaiting review by a limited number of volunteers. Please be patient. 331dot (talk) 13:51, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

ਗਿਆਨੀ ਪੁਰਸ਼: for 1, the lead should state that this is an Indian thing. For 2, the lead should state that he is Indian, and make clear what is meant by "/Doom". Maproom (talk) 14:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

"Murder of Tony Stanlake" article?

This was quite a well documented murder in Wellington, New Zealand. I'm wondering why it doesn't have it's own wiki page NOR even a single mention anywhere on relevant pages on Wikipedia. I have no idea how to get started adding an entire page but I think it deserves one. Pamelahoward (talk) 14:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Pamelahoward, welcome to the Teahouse. There are two reasons why it might not have a page, or even a mention. The first is that no one has bothered to add one. Wikipedia is built by folks like you and me taking enough interest in something to write about it; possibly that just hasn't happened yet. The other possibility is that someone has tried to write about it, but wasn't able to find enough significant coverage about the case which had been published in independent, reliable, secondary sources (see WP:42). If you think that such coverage exists, and you can get your hands on it, then the best way to get information onto Wikipedia is to carefully read Help:Your first article and follow the instructions. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Unconstructive?

Is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1156869775 actually unconstructive per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1156905147? Ivyaweoff (talk) 14:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Ivyaweoff, and welcome to the Teahouse. As per WP:YT and WP:RSPYT, YouTube should generally be avoided as a source of information. If you wish to include your new information, consider finding an alternative, reliable source which supports it. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 15:08, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ivyaweoff, if someone reverts an edit you made, you should attempt to discuss things with them directly, either by posting on the article's talk page and pinging them to the discussion (the best option) or posting on their talk page. Adding such a laudatory sentence to the lead, sourced only to an interview, is very likely to be contentious. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:13, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, Ivyaweoff, as the IP user says, no Wikipedia article should ever describe anybody or anything in language like "very beloved" in Wikipedia's voice. It may be acceptable to quote a source that describes somebody in that way, as long as the source is both reliable and wholly independent of the subject. But in that case it should be made very clear that Wikipedia is quoting a named person, not expressing a judgment directly. ColinFine (talk) 16:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Im trying to edit pages, but have issues with referencing

Im working on a few pages but have had issues with referencing.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Sunny - I added a reference into the first paragraph [1], but while it gets added in the body, it doesnt appear in the reference list.

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranatunge_Karunananda - I added a reference into the first paragraph 2, but while it gets added in the body, it doesnt appear correctly in the reference list [7].

In both instances I cant use either the visual or source view to place the reference where I want it in the references section.

Would appreciate it if I can get a link to a video so I can follow a tutorial. Thanks. Shehandd (talk) 16:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Shehandd. Thanks for contributing!

Here's a video on how to cite a source using the Visual Editor:

Video on YouTube

To cite an external link in Source mode, used the {{Ref}} template, like this:

<ref>https://www.example.com</ref>

When you publish the change, it will convert to the numbered footnote style.

To link another wikipedia article, do this:

[[Help:Wikitext]]

You almost have it on this edit. The syntax you want is:

<ref name="Spirited">{{cite web|url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEW63GtAVj0 |title=ARUNANANDA - THE MOST SPIRITED LOSER}}</ref>

The only thing missing was the closing braces toward the end }}

/ edg ☺ ☭ 17:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Shehandd The specific problem with the reference in Hassan Sunny is that you added an external link instead of using the template {{cite web}} to turn that link into a proper citation. The general advice on adding references is at H:REFB. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:07, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Got it, I think I was able to sort this out. Thanks a lot! Shehandd (talk) 04:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Oxford Metrics article for review

Hi, I recently submitted an article for review regarding the smart sensing company Oxford Metrics. Unfortunately, the article Draft:Oxford Metrics was rejected for not matching NPOV criteria. I’d be very appreciative to hear more from the community about how I can improve the article and would love to hear any guidance on edits I can make ahead of resubmitting. Looking forward to working further on this. Thanks in advance. EWix76 (talk) 16:03, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@EWix76: Just glancing it over, the lead section doesn't comply with WP:LEAD. And it has too many unnecessary details in the company history; details that may be relevant to company insiders but not a general audience of readers. Also, Wikipedia doesn't use title case in headings. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:39, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@EWix76: Also note that your draft was Declined, which means it can be cleaned up for resubmission. If the draft had been Rejected, then the subject would be deemed not WP:NOTABLE and no amount of editing will save it. See this page for a more detailed explanation. Madam Fatal (talk) 18:58, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

What section should I add this in (if at all)?

I want to add something to the article for Pontiac, MI about how the song Rotary Park by Joe Hawley references it, as he and Zubin were mugged there. I think it should go in §Culture, but I'm not sure if this is the right section to put this information in.

I'm not even sure if this is notable enough to be included here. What are your opinions? QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 16:28, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuickQuokka: Welcome to the Teahouse! I suggest you ask at the article's talk page, Talk:Pontiac, Michigan, and provide more details and a published reliable source. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 16:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: The last time the talk page was used was 5 year ago by a bot, and I can't find a reliable source for my claim. I know that there was something about this event on the now-defunct Pledge Music, but I can't find it on the Internet Archive.

I am also not sure if it would be libel to make that claim unsourced.

Also one of my questions was not answered: Which section would fit this information best (if it was even allowed on here)?

Thank you, and please excuse me for being so inexperienced. --QuickQuokka ^{[⁠talk • contribs]} 17:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuickQuokka, if you can't find a reliable source which discusses the song's significance in relation to the city, it's probably not notable enough to include (a read of WP:POPCULTURE might explain why). "Culture" would probably be the best to include such information if it could be sourced (see here, for example). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:51, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@QuickQuokka: Just because a talk page hasn't been used recently doesn't mean it shouldn't be used now. Maybe the song would belong in a new "In popular culture" section. However, if you can't find a reliable source, and the song and singer don't have their own articles, then it may not be notable enough for inclusion. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 17:55, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

My 2¢: it would be more appropriate to mention this in an article about the song or the writer/performer (if we had one), with a link in that mention to the Pontiac article. I notice however we don't have either, the nearest being the article on his band Tally Hall, which doesn't mention the song (as neither does their separate discography article) because as you will know the song is on his solo album.

If neither have (yet) achieved sufficient notability to have their own article, I think this fact about the song is too trivial to mention in the article about a place connected with the song's composition. Since we do have articles on two other members of the band, perhaps the better course would be to first see if one on Hawley will fly. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 19:13, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

i am new, and cannot figure out how to cite

i have a sandboxed article at User:Natelabs/sandbox and i cannot figure out how to get the citations to work

i copied all the text from de:Logisim and started translating, but I cant get the citation to cite

this feels like it should be super simple, but i cant get the hang of it

Natelabs (talk) 16:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Natelabs, and welcome to the Teahouse. Have a look at Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners for a detailed explanation on how to cite sources. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 16:38, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Natelabs: You might also be interested in the video at WP:EASYREFBEGIN. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 16:49, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Natelabs, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that the problems with your draft are more fundamental than that.

The first (which is easily corrected) is that you have broken the terms of the CC-BY-SA licence, by copying text without attributing it. Please see Translation for details.

The more serious one is that, as far as I can see, not one of the sources you cite is all three of reliably pubished, independent of Logisim, and containing significant coverage of it. Without several such sources, you will not be able to establish that the software meets English Wikipedia's requirements for notability. Notability is a fundamental minimum requirement for the subjects of new articles, and the fact that another Wikipedia has an article on it is irrelevant. (I believe that de-wiki has similar requirements to en-wiki, so my guess is that de:Logisim is like the many thousands of articles in the English Wikipedia that were written long ago before we got so careful, and would not be accepted today). ColinFine (talk) 17:04, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Guides for newbies

Is there any up to date guides so I can learn more about Wikipedia and it’s many complexities?

Thanks in advance! Wikihelper59 (talk) 17:11, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Wikihelper59, welcome to the Teahouse. Help:Tutorial is a good place to start. You can check out both the source editing and visual editing versions. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:28, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Wikihelper59 In a moment, I'll add a full set of useful links to your Talk Page in the hope they will help. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:30, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Wikihelper59 (talk) 21:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Queries About Maintainence Template Removal

Hello, admins I recently edited the wikipedia page of a university->Guru Ghasidas Vishwavidyalaya and removed the maintainence template, but an administrator reverted 2 of the templates and according to the administrator, further review of the page is required before removing the template. So I request you to further review the page and suggest ways to improve it and remove the templates. For further idea about the discussion between me and the administrator, please refer my talk page kindly, talk

Surojit mondal memes^{talk • contribs} 17:14, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Surojit mondal memes The editor, Dl2000, who reverted your removal of the template is not an administrator but is an experienced editor. The correct place to discuss improvements to the article and gain consensus as to which maintenance templates are appropriate is on the article's Talk Page, so other editors who have it on their watchlist can contribute to the discussion. Incidentally, the folk who answer queries here at the Teahouse are also not necessarily admins (I am not). Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Thank you sir for your guidance. Surojit mondal memes^{talk • contribs} 17:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Surojit mondal memes, welcome to the Teahouse. Dl2000 is not an administrator (and they never claimed to be one) - they are simply a very experienced editor. Discussion about improvements to an article should take place on the article's talk page - in this case, Talk:Guru Ghasidas Vishwavidyalaya. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:24, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your guidance. Surojit mondal memes^{talk • contribs} 17:35, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Draft

Hello I cannot find where my draft was placed Conceptcontext (talk) 17:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Conceptcontext, welcome to the Teahouse. Do you mean Draft:Choi Seung-hee? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:27, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Found it thank you! any idea where I should move it next ? Conceptcontext (talk) 18:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Conceptcontext, welcome to the Teahouse. I don't get it: a version of the text is already at Choi Seung-hee. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 18:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Conceptcontext, please do not move it anywhere. I assume you've seen the post Liz made on your talk page - if you think your draft is ready, you should remove the dashboard template from the top and submit it to Articles for Creation (WP:AfC). But it seems the article already exists? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:58, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

As does much of the wording (exist, that is). Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 19:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes I am having trouble moving it to articles for creation and yes the page already exists I added missing information Conceptcontext (talk) 19:02, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Conceptcontext, that is not the way to add missing information to an existing article. You should add the missing information to the article directly, by editing the article itself - or perhaps by making suggestions on the talk page. Also, you must attribute any text you copy within Wikipedia in your edit summaries (WP:Copying within Wikipedia). I will go add an attribution to your draft now. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:04, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I was instructed to not edit the article directly. Instead use the sandbox to draft Conceptcontext (talk) 19:12, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Conceptcontext, I can't speak to what your instructor told you (I see you're a student). If you want to simply suggest changes to the article, without editing it, you should use the talk page: Talk:Choi Seung-hee. If your changes are long or complicated, you can certainly write them out in a sandbox and then link to the sandbox when you post on the talk page. It would be better, though, to propose short, simple changes if you need someone else to implement them. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:17, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Figured everything out and added contributions to the main page, thank you for the support. Conceptcontext (talk) 21:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Edit Total assets

I think this section is a mistake. I am new here. Can anyone check and change

Total assets of Takeda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeda_Pharmaceutical_Company

Current: ¥4,106,463 billion (FY 2018) - or about US 4,100 b Note: The company of largest asset is AT&T with asset USD $551,669,000,000(US 551 b). Takeda can not have 7.5 times of asset of AT&T.

Correct: ¥4,106,463 "million" ?

Total equity ¥1,997,424 billion (FY 2018) should have been ¥1,997,424 million ?

Thanks

Kenn Kennlin (talk) 17:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Kennlin, welcome to the Teahouse. You can raise the issue at Talk:Takeda Pharmaceutical Company, but a simpler solution might be to check what the source attached to the value says, and edit accordingly. One immediate problem I notice is that the source claims to be for 2018, but was apparently published in 2013. Perhaps a better source is needed. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 17:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Company page - paid contribution

I am creating a page for a company, and I want to provide the correct code to let the community know this. I have started a Draft because I want to work on it over time and have it reviewed before publishing. I've made sure the page is neutral, nothing marketing or salesy and just facts with citations.

I inserted the source code that lists who my employer is and who our client is, but the editor told me it was the incorrect code. It told me to insert a different code that just says paid contributor. When I inserted that code, the editor told me it could only be used on Talk pages.

What am I doing wrong? Thanks so much in advance for any help. Mlennon1 (talk) 18:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Mlennon1, welcome to the Teahouse. There are no edits to any draft from this account - can you give us a link, or at least its name? A paid editing disclosure normally goes on your user page, User:Mlennon1, in one of the forms at Template:Paid#Usage ({{paid|employer=ACME}} for example). There's a different template for talk pages, {{connected contributor (paid)}}. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:37, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Mlennon1 I would suggest that you think of it as an article about your company, instead of a "page for" it. This may put you in a better mindset. A Wikipedia article about a company should not just give facts, it should summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Wikipedia is not interested in what a company wants to say about itself and what it does, only in what sources wholly unconnected with the company choose on their own to say about the significance/influence/importance of the company as they see it. 331dot (talk) 18:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your response! This makes sense. Mlennon1 (talk) 19:17, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you!! This makes sense. So now that I have added the disclosure to my user page, do I need to do anything when I create an article/page for a company, or will it automatically show up? I haven't published the draft yet which is probably why you don't see it. Mlennon1 (talk) 19:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for being so upfront about all this, @Mlennon1! When you create the draft, either you or someone else will need to place the {{connected contributor (paid)}} template on its talk page, it will not show up automatically. It's not hard to do, though (someone here at the Teahouse could do it for you if you're stuck). When you've created the draft, I recommend coming back here to ask for a quick look-over, and perhaps for an AfC submission template if you haven't placed one already. Beware - many paid editors get their first efforts quickly deleted for being overly promotional! Don't take that personally if it happens. This will be quite a learning process. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 19:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Mlennon1 Note that "Publish changes" should be interpreted as "save changes", it does not mean "publish this to the encyclopedia". I would suggest that you click it so that you don't lose your draft's content. 331dot (talk) 19:40, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Mlennon1 You spoke of writing a "page for" a company. Someone suggested you think of it as an "article about" the company, suggesting that it would put you in a better mindset for writing it. But there's a much more important reason that both you and the company had better not just think of it that way, but realize that it IS that way. Should this company turn out to be sufficiently notable for Wikipedia, and should you succeed in writing this article--entirely based NOT on anything you happen to know about the company--so that it passes muster, then the article will not be owned by the company, nor will it be controlled by the company. Once it's there, in general, anybody can edit the article. If they happen to find something that the company would rather keep out of the article, and that something is relevant and reliably sourced, then they can put it into the article, and there's really nothing you or the company can do about it. Uporządnicki (talk) 20:55, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes!! Definitely aware of this, but thank you for the reminder :) Mlennon1 (talk) 21:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

This is helpful. I was totally shying away because Publish changes seemed so official. Will do so shortly! Appreciate your response! Mlennon1 (talk) 21:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Great! I published the draft, added the {{connected contributor (paid)}} template on its talk page, and submitted the draft for review. This has been a good learning experience even so far, so thank you again for all of your help! Mlennon1 (talk) 21:15, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

So your draft does a nice job of documenting the existence of the company, describing its staff and what it does, as well as it routine activities. The trouble is, that's not what Wikipedia is looking for. We are looking for a summary of what independent reliable sources have chosen on their own to say about the company and what makes it important/significant/influential- how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. You mention "Smart Communications has been recognized by Aspire, a global analyst and market research firm, as a leading provider of Customer Communications Management software" but give no indication as to what makes that significant for this company. It isn't a Nobel Peace Prize or Pulitzer Prize. 331dot (talk) 21:17, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I've fixed up the connected contributor template a bit. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:24, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

the most important question of all time, plus one about italian wp i guess

the biggest question that has never been asked.......... has mike ever actually bulled a turn?

and on a less important note, are different language versions of wikipedia supposed to automatically log you in? because for some reason, looking at the italian article on salvatore ruocco was enough for it to create an account, log me in, and for someone to send me a welcome message cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 20:09, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes indeed, @Cog-san. That is a feature, not a bug (tends to catch some folks by surprise, though). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:11, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

yeah, should have seen that coming

shoutouts to that article using imdb as a source and only getting a "that looks kinda sussy tbh" note there, with that same source being treated like a war crime here cogsan • (give me attention) • (see my deeds) 20:13, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Maybe IMDb is more reliable in Italian. But I doubt it. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:18, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Cogsan. English Wikipedia didn't use to be so careful about sourcing, particularly in the early days, when getting coverage was the goal; but it has got stricter over the years. (That's why there are so many thousands of seriously dodgy articles here, and why we don't accept OTHERSTUFFEXISTS as a justification for more of the same). I suspect that many other Wikipedia's haven't so far followed that progression. ColinFine (talk) 21:04, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Is creating templates as registered user posssible?

Hello Wikipedians, I am EnjoyBrowser557. I felt extremely curious of if I have the ability to create Wikipedia templates. I knew that there is a template editor rights that can be applied on some users. Template editor is an user right that have the ability to be only granted by administrators. I actually searched up templates on Wikipedia and in terms of discoveries, I saw many of them, in which are used on articles, userpages, talk pages, Main page, categories, essays, and other policies. Although, many of them exist for a reason and admins are the ones who created it, I wanted to know if I can create any template. So users, here is that question: Is that even possible to create templates as a registered user and autoconfirmed user, or only admins or sysops can create templates? Try to answer that. /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 22:54, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

hi @EnjoyBrowser557 and welcome to the Teahouse! I believe that creating templates is possible as a registered user. the template editor right is just to ensure that high-risk, common, and very complex templates (and lua modules) don't get edited by those who aren't skilled enough to understand them. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 23:03, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, EnjoyBrowser557—welcome to the Teahouse! Last time I checked, every (logged-in) user can create a template. However, note that templates are intended to be employed for specific uses. Help:A quick guide to templates is a good place to get started on learning how templates work. You can create your own personal template in your own userspace, as your own user subpages can be transcluded as normal templates can be. — 3PPYB6 ^{(T / C / L)} — 23:08, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@3PPYB6 @Melecie Could you please give me more detail on how to create templates as registered user without causing Lua errors or goofs? /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 23:14, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Any templates that you might break are usually WP:TPROT (template protected). Lua you don't need to worry about yet.

Remember, creating a template does nothing until it is transcluded. For example, User:Sungodtemple/vand/rightgreatwrongs1 I have created but literally never used. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 23:24, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sungodtemple If you created User:Sungodtemple/vand/rightgreatwrongs1, however you never utilized it, are you going to utilize this template in other talk pages and articles in the near future? /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 23:30, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

EnjoyBrowser557 obviously the template is not meant for use on articles, but I probably won't use it on user talks. It's not like the extra 1 KB is doing anyone harm. Some users have also created non-functional templates, such as User:JPxG/Sig. Just make sure you don't fall under WP:U5. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 23:35, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sungodtemple However, what does U5 mean to my own? If you define it to me, explain it why? When did this got added? /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 00:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

If you only edit in your user subpages, those subpages could be deleted under WP:U5, since Wikipedia is not a free web host. I doubt this would happen to you. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 00:34, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sungodtemple Why is Wikipedia is not a free web host? I edited articles and I have my userpage containing material related to building an encyclopedia. Furthermore, I have contributed well on Encyclopedia by adding content and citing sources. But is there an explanation of why is this site, not a free web host? Why is this policy exist? /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 01:21, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

WP:NOTWEBHOST means that you can't do something like host a forum on user subpages on Wikipedia, or try to game the system. Again, I doubt you are doing this. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 01:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@EnjoyBrowser557: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. You don't really mingle on here. The Tips of Apmh 01:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh, understandable, I am advised that I am forbidden from mingling here and I definitely trying to stay on task on creating an encyclopedia. Thanks for you. /EnjoyBrowser557 (userpage) (talk) (contributions) 01:48, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@EnjoyBrowser557 as someone who has made and edited quite a few templates I can say it's quite simple. Just find a purpose you want to make a template for, easiest would be a navbar for beginners, and then find a similar template and copy it's code into your sandbox, and play around with it until you get what you want, then move it to mainspace and link it in articles. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 03:22, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Is referencing allowed in user subpages?

Is referencing in user subpages allowed? ThatRandomEditor101 (talk) 23:48, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@ThatRandomEditor101: Welcome to the Teahouse! Yes, references are allowed on user subpages. You might want to play around with a new draft or a revision of part of an article on a user subpage and make sure it looks good, and that includes references. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 23:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't have a draft, but I have my version of the list of islands by area. Also, thanks. ThatRandomEditor101 (talk) 23:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

ThatRandomEditor101, referencing is not only allowed but encouraged on any Wikipedia page where article content is being discussed and debated. High quality references are like gold on Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 07:46, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@ThatRandomEditor101 The only things I can think of that shouldn't be put within user pages are certain categories and nonfree images: assuming that what is there is relevant to developing content for the encyclopaedia. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:14, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Why

My changes were undone for not a fair change. I am related to him and I spoke true facts and it was undone. Please fix ProvbalyNotZav (talk) 00:11, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@ProvbalyNotZav: Welcome to the Teahouse. In regards to your edit at Zac Morris, you must cite where you're getting your information from from a reliable source. That doesn't even touch on it being language that is unsuitable for an encyclopedia. Your other edit isn't constructive either. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, ProvbalyNotZav. You added your opinion about something. You may be right, you may be wrong: it doesn't matter. Your opinion (and my opinion, and any other random person's opinion on the web) do not belong in Wikipedia articles. Articles should summarize what reliablesources say, not what an editor thinks. ColinFine (talk) 09:36, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

chess notability

The Tennison Gambit article has the ICBM variation, where black loses a queen. I'm pretty confused whether or not this variation meets notability guidelines or not, because the video about the variation has >3.5m views on youtube. tynjee 04:24, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@-tynjee Notability is complicated, because even a YouTube video can show more noteworthiness than any standard primary source. In the case of the Tennison Gambit, ICBM probably has weight to be included in that article (also it has 7m views) The Tips of Apmh 04:53, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Based on the references / further reading, it seems there are at least 3 books written about it. That would pass WP:GNG if I am understanding it correctly. RudolfRed (talk) 04:56, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

fixing @-tynjee: RudolfRed (talk) 04:57, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

apparently I misunderstood the question, sorry RudolfRed (talk) 04:58, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

References to Sites with Affiliate Notices

When adding reference links to articles, are websites that have affiliate notices considered reputable? For context, I noticed on the Octane Render page that it has a link to Octane's own website on the Octane-X paragraph, and the link reference is to Octane's website also. This led me to searching for reputable websites that referenced this stuff so I could fix it. Two in particular, (specific links to potential references) Apple Insider and 9to5Mac have disclosures that they earn money for affiliate links. Thanks for any help and clarity. Chadnc (talk) 05:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Chadnc, and welcome to the Teahouse. Try WP:AFFILIATE for some information, and read through WP:RS for some general information that may help you. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 07:28, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

bots to update article sections

Hello. I am a novice editor and have consistently been updating the sex education policies and access section in the Sex education in the United States page. However, policies are always changing and it can be hard to review the source material and constantly update which policies are changing where. Do you think I could employ a bot or other strategies to help me update that section of the page more easily?

Thanks. HEARTBURNPIGEON (talk) 05:44, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, running a bot on this isn't possible due to the complications that could happen if the part that it updated was changed or deleted, and bots don't usually make prose changes in articles. I also don't know how you would be able to do this and get approval for it. The best way is just to make the changes manually. Thanks, JML1148 (talk | contribs) 07:33, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@HEARTBURNPIGEON You may find that the template {{As of}} helps in situations like this. Behind the scenes it populates a category page highlighting articles with potentially dated statements, making it easier for human editors to know what might need updating and making it very clear to readers when the article's information was last checked. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

You can also consider tagging a section with an appropriate Current Event template, found at WP:CET. I don't think that's appropriate for the entire article, but if there is an actual ongoing event (like a legislative debate or a relevant court case), it can be helpful to tag the affected sections. Actualcpscm (talk) 12:14, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

STANLEY CUP

IN ONE ARTICLE , it is stated that the winner of the Stanley Cup is NHL League Champion I do not think that is so . I say that for 2022-2023 the Boston Bruins are The League Champions of the NHL Joe Byrnes LANNIN 127 (talk) 06:18, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Stanley Cup Hello, LANNIN 127, and welcome to the Teahouse. On the article, it says that The Stanley Cup is the championship trophy awarded annually to the National Hockey League (NHL) playoff champion. This is true, and per WP:CRYSTALBALL, Wikipedia is not the place for predicting future events or results. ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 07:24, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@LANNIN 127: Which article? I don't find it in the search "NHL League Champion". The Boston Bruins won the 2022–23 Presidents' Trophy which is not the same as the Stanley Cup decided in June. Presidents' Trophy#History says:

The Trophy was introduced at the start of the 1985–86 NHL season by the League's Board of Governors. Prior to this, the best team in the League during the regular season was allowed to hang a banner reading "NHL League Champions."

The term appears to be unused today. Are you sure the article said "NHL League Champions" and not "NHL Champions"? The latter means the winner of the Stanley Cup. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:00, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

KARIPAKKAM

ACTULY kARAIPPAKKAM IS THE RIGHT NAME OF THE PLACE.BUT YOUR GOOGLE MAPS WRITTEN WORNG SPELLING(KARIPAKKAM).PLEASE RECTIFY. THANKS. 210.10.7.208 (talk) 06:33, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. Wikipedia has no control over what Google does. You'll have to go through their channels. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:34, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Copying text across articles

Is there anything objectionable about copying large blocks of text from one Wikipedia article to another, as was done in this edit of "History of North Macedonia" (text copied from COVID-19 pandemic in North Macedonia)? Fabrickator (talk) 07:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Fabrickator: At the very least it needs to be properly attributed per WP:COPYWITHIN. ––FormalDude (talk) 07:14, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Fabrickator. Copying content from one article to another is just fine, as long as attribution to the source has been given. The edit summary should say something like "copied content from COVID-19 pandemic in North Macedonia". Cullen328 (talk) 07:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Setting aside the issue of properly attributing the copied content, it seems that the timeframe of the Covid-related information has become somewhat ambiguous. The Covid information presented was evidently for the period from February 2020 to July 2020, but it is not apparent to what extent this section is expected to be in chronological order. As written, we can only conclude that after July 2020, Covid just suddenly disappeared in North Macedonia. Fabrikator (talk) 08:41, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Fabrickator, I did not take a look at the appropriateness of the content, but just the attribution issue. If you can update the content with more recent sources, that would be a great improvement. Cullen328 (talk) 16:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Why does my article look like an advertisement

Hello, I'm a first time writer so I'm finding it difficult understanding some of the rules. I started an article for a non-profit organisation that I have no affiliation with. The reason I started the article is because I was reading about Women who code and saw that an organisation like that is present in Nigeria. However, the article's draft keeps getting declined because of a COI. Would anyone be so kind to tell me what needs changing or removing? I have read the notability, advertisement and COI articles. Draft:She Code Africa.

I really need help, I'll be super grateful if anyone can please point me to what I'm doing wrong. Hannydevelop (talk) 12:14, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

You've asked for help in several locations, please use only one way of asking for help at a time. 331dot (talk) 12:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hannydevelop One of the problems is that you have parts like the paragraph that starts "They have the School of engineering....." which are the sorts of thing that might be on the organisations website but are less relevant to an encyclopaedia article and do sound like advertising. This is a case where "less may be more". You have some sources that meet the golden rules and perhaps should trim the draft to focus on those, illustrating why the organisation meets the notability guidelines. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:32, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

See Women's Technology Empowerment Centre as to how it might look, although even that article is far from perfect (actually, no article ever is perfect). Lectonar (talk) 12:36, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Hannydevelop and welcome to the Teahouse. One of the difficulties, perhaps, in writing a Wikipedia article about a tech subject like this, is that a lot of the coverage comes from tech, business, and entrepreneurial publications, which often talk in a business and promotional language and tone.

It's not a trivial task reflecting what these sources have to say without talking the same business and promotional language. Add to that an editor who is well-versed in writing at a professional level, and add to that suspicions (whether well-founded or unfounded) that there may be undisclosed paid or unpaid editing, and that makes the prospect of having a "reads like an advert" tag attached or it failing review for that reason.

As for fixing these issues, follow Mike Turnbull's useful advice (above). Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 12:48, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Esowteric I'll like to know if there's still any tone of promotional content in the article? Also, is it a COI if I applied for the program in 2020 but didn't get in? Hannydevelop (talk) 14:44, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi again, Hannydevelop. Others here like Michael D. Turnbull can give you a far better idea than I can about the article's tone as it now stands. As for the UPE that has been removed by an admin ("not UPE"), that has now been taken up instead as a possible COI, perhaps others here could read through the talk page threads and offer guidance or options for dispute resolution. It reminds me of the Monty Python sketch about the Spanish Inquisition, which is not what we expect when visiting the Teahouse. Thanks, Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:53, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

There's certainly a COI here, but simply placing {{UserboxCOI|1=She Code Africa}} at User:hannydevelop is all that's needed to resolve the issue. Then submit the article through AfC, and use {{edit request}}s in the future. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I think Theroadislong added that already Hannydevelop (talk) 15:08, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

There is nothing on your user page. You user page is here: User:Hannydevelop. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, I have added that. Is there something else I should add? Hannydevelop (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hannydevelop, you could add {{connected contributor}} to the talk page of the draft if you like (or I could, or anyone could) if you feel it necessary, but it's not technically required. You've declared as requested, that should be the end of that issue. Unfortunately I'm not at all familiar with WP:NORG so I can't help much when it comes to sorting through the references on your draft. The ORG criteria are tricky. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:20, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for you help. I really don't like when people decline drafts with no reason. If you feel it sounds like an advert, you should let the editor know what they're doing wrong so that they don't repeat it Hannydevelop (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hannydevelop, they did give you a reason - it was just a very general one. Reviewers aren't required to give such specific guidance; if they were, fewer people would have the time to be reviewers, the backlog would shoot up and the system would probably break down. The vast majority of us are volunteers with limited free time; generally, the onus is on the person wanting to do something to do the research and educate themselves via links provided. That's one reason why writing articles from scratch is so hard for newcomers. Sometimes even for experienced folks. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:28, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

can you take a look and let me know what I'm missing? Most non-profit organisations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Who_Code and SCA don't have many references available online so its suprising when someone declines them as not notable Hannydevelop (talk) 15:33, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

inappropriate promotional content in the lede section alone includes “They have a strong focus on expanding their reach” “membership locations across 20+ African countries, She Code Africa is currently the largest women in tech community in Nigeria” “programs encompass a wide range of technical and non-technical fields, including bootcamps in Cloud Engineering, Web development, Product management, Product design, Mobile development, Program management, and more” “has actively built networks and partnerships to train young secondary school girls and women in relevant tech skills.” there is more. Theroadislong (talk) 15:37, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

This is very helpful, I'm working on them now. What do I do if the linked sources are announcement for call of application written by a secondary party? Hannydevelop (talk) 15:43, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hannydevelop, the primary problem at this point seems to be your sources, which, as I said, I'm not very competent at evaluating when it comes to organizations. If I were writing the article, I'd find someone who did know sources, give them a short list, and ask if any were any good. If they said "Yes, those three are good", I'd start writing the article based only on those sources. A very short, simple article with lots of inline citations to those good sources, and nothing else. Make it very easy for a reviewer. But that's just how I tend to do things. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Theroadislong thinks two of the sources are unreliable since thry're blogs. I'm removing them now. He also gave a clear statement of the promotional tones and I'm currently removing them. I don't really know much editors but @Theroadislong is giving helpful tips. I'll ping @Theroadislong when I'm done. He has been extremely helpful. I'm also sorry for disturbing you good people Hannydevelop (talk) 16:21, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much @Michael D. Turnbull this was super helpful. I have trimmed down the article's tone and references according to the guide given. Please, if you're a little less busy check it out, all reviews are welcome. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:She_Code_Africa Hannydevelop (talk) 12:58, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hannydevelop You should also read neutral point of view because the real problem is not really the COI. The whole draft is written in marketing lingo and will never make it to "article" status at this state. The Tips of Apmh 12:52, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hannydevelop: Welcome to the Teahouse. There is language that I would expect to see in ad copy. In the lede alone there's She Code Africa is closing the gender digital divide in Africa by creating mentorship programs and [i]n 6 years of running, they have actively created networks and partnerships to train young secondary school girls and women with relevant tech skills. In §History, there's

She Code Africa, created an environment that encourages young African women to grow successful tech careers, and ensure they are equally represented across all career roles and levels in technology.

In addition to being unsourced, the use of encourages makes me feel like the organisation is being unambiguously portrayed in a positive light, and there's a neutral point of view that must be maintained on this site. The use of vague verbs like trying and focused on doesn't help either. I personally don't like when etc. is used in prose, as it's a lazy way of saying "I'm not going to mention any more things, so click on the reference to find out more!"

On a side note, please get rid of the comma splices. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 12:55, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm removing these sentences, thank you for your review Hannydevelop (talk) 13:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you've been put through the mill across at your talk page, Hannydevelop. Thank you for your question at the Teahouse, and for your contributions to Wikipedia. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 14:46, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

No problem, I'll delete those once I have this sorted out. It seems a lot of people take money to write articles, that's why no one wants to believe when I say I don't have any affiliation with SCA. I just want to know what I'm doing wrong. Hannydevelop (talk) 14:48, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Hannydevelop, it seems you do have some affiliation. This is not really a big deal - you're not going to get blocked, your draft is not going to get deleted. All you need to do is put a small notice on your user page and submit the article through AfC; then, if it's accepted, you can make edit requests on the talk page if significant changes are needed in the future. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:00, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

That's why I came to the tea house, will you consider someone who applied to a "school" but didn't get in an affiliation? Hannydevelop (talk) 15:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, @Hannydevelop. This can all be resolved in ten seconds if you simply place {{UserboxCOI|1=She Code Africa}} on your user page, and continue to go through AfC. You're not going to be arrested or anything. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:06, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

The COI is a little more nuanced than that. Perhaps the text parameter could be used to allow Hannydevelop to better express herself? See Template:UserboxCOI#Parameters. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 15:17, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Certainly, but getting the simple declaration out there and done seemed like the first priority (also easiest to do!). Further tweaking can now commence if desired. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Notability

Just a note to say that the first rejection (promotional content) has now morphed into a second rejection for lack of notability. FWIW, I've been through the references and wikilinked those web sites or publishers that have Wiki articles, but I haven't looked closely to check the references for in-depth coverage or verifiability. Other sites may be notable. Esowteric + Talk + Breadcrumbs 16:20, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Theroadislong has pointed out what needs removing. I'm on it now. Hannydevelop (talk) 16:29, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Ben

I need someone to add the term on the meaning for the 2023 hip term that's being used a lot with the name Ben being used to refer to a furry like double meanings kind of like Karen how that has became what it was it's currently only being used in most of Australia like most of it but it's also now being used all over some big city's in America and the UK to refer to a furry BananaSmugglingBandit (talk) 15:20, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Have you got any reliable sources WP:RS at all? - Roxy the dog 15:22, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @BananaSmugglingBandit, welcome to the Teahouse. As mentioned above, Wikipedia is not a collection of reports on everything that is happening in the world - it is an encyclopedia that summarizes what has been reported in reliable sources. Have any major newspapers, for instance, mentioned this new term? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary and the page you have linked to is for people, whose name is Ben, with Wikipedia articles, i.e. not the use you are trying to add. If you think the word should be included in the page Ben (disambiguation), you would need to write an article, and have it accepted first. As explained at WP:NEO, Wikipedia is cautious about such articles as such "articles are often created in an attempt to use Wikipedia to increase usage of the term" - Arjayay (talk) 15:42, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@BananaSmugglingBandit On the other hand, there is Wiktionary which is a dictionary. Maybe its entry for furry will give you an idea how to add to its entry for Ben: but you will still need valid sources. Ben is already American slang. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:48, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Reference Creation Tool

Is there any tool that I can use to automatically fill out references for me? Like I can input the date accessed, book name, author name and then it just outputs a properly formatted Wikipedia reference tag for me? Esoptr0n (talk) 15:53, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Esoptr0n, welcome to the Teahouse. The simplest and most widely-available tool is the one attached to the top of the edit window - in source editing mode, it's just labeled Cite, and brings up a drop-down list of templates to be filled out and inserted. Visual editing mode has a similar button. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for showing me this Esoptr0n (talk) 16:58, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Esoptr0n: There are various tools of varying fancyness for this, but the format I found to be most efficient when I was writing a lot of pages quickly was to have a simple txt file on my computer with the minimum information that I always want to be in a citation. It has the following templates in plaintext:

JOURNAL: <ref>{{cite journal |first= |last= |title= |journal= |volume= |issue= |pages= |date= |doi=}}</ref>

WEB: <ref>{{cite web |url= |title= |publisher= |date= |access-date=}}</ref>

NEWS: <ref>{{cite news |url= |title= |work= |first= |last= |date= |access-date=}}</ref>

BOOK: <ref>{{cite book |first= |last= |date= |title= |publisher= |page= |isbn=}}</ref>

For me the easiest way to cite a lot of information quickly is to just paste by hand the info into these barebones templates in the old-school editor. Your mileage may vary of course. - Astrophobe (talk) 16:35, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Esoptr0n Even better is the WP:citation expander, which does all the work for you and is brilliant for journals with a digital object identifier in particular, although it works to a limited extent on webpages and books as well. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:37, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the info Esoptr0n (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Is the Wikipedia Tea House associated with the Tea Party politicians?

Is the Wikipedia "Tea House" associated with the Tea Party politicians?

I know that conservative Tea Party politicians are always trying to censor liberal celebrities, so I was wondering if Wikipedia is Tea Party. Tonyterryfacebook (talk) 16:27, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Tonyterryfacebook, welcome to the Teahouse. Teahouses are much older than the Tea Party - but probably not older than tea parties. Wikipedia is run by the nonprofit Wikimedia Foundation, or WP:WMF - follow that link to learn more. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

No. The Tips of Apmh 16:35, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Interesting, the usual criticism Wikipedia gets is that we are too liberal and trying to silence conservatives, not the other way round. 331dot (talk) 16:42, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Is my Article notable? + Trouble at making the Article itself

Hello, ive written an Article for the Actor Bryan Zampella, which hes also speculated to be the next actor for the next gta game. Ive written everything but i think my grammar is bad. Ive researched so much and it was so hard to do on Mobile. I think i just need help. Anyone want to help/give advice?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Zampella Ayyyple2 (talk) 16:45, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Ayyyple2, and welcome to the Teahouse. The most important thing you need to do for this article is to include inline references: have a look at WP:Referencing for beginners to find out how to do this. You also don't need the Hacking in the 2020s navigational template, one template is usually enough. I'm reformatting the article slightly to conform with other biographies of living persons, but you will still have to place the references in the article, supporting each statement (WP:BLPRS might help in this instance).

Also remember that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and that Wikipedia is not a collection of product announcements and rumors.

Hope that helps! ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 17:07, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Ayyyple2, I agree with ContributeToTheWiki. Rumors do not belong in a biography of a living person, so please remove all that speculation. Unless this person has received significant coverage in several reliable, independent sources, he is not notable. Actors who have had only minor roles are rarely notable. Cullen328 (talk) 17:24, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I mean he did not only play minor roles Ayyyple2 (talk) 17:51, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ayyyple2 In its current state, the article will not pass the review by the new page patrollers and they will draftify it or possibly reject it altogether. I urge you to move it back to draft space yourself before that happens. You seem to have a huge bunch of unused references at the end, which don't appear to belong in the article at all. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:24, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

 Comment: Article moved to draftspace: Draft:Bryan Zampella ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 17:37, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I did add how it is not confirmed it is him, i really tried my best. There's also : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Alexandra_Cristina_Echavarri

But im really bad at this, sorry Ayyyple2 (talk) 17:50, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Takatomi Senge

Is it normal to have subjects covered at Simple Wikipedia but not here? Can someone copy it over with attribution? Start an entry on it? I already have an extensive backlog and none of my AfC drafts are getting reviewed. It's ridiculous we don't have coverage of subjects like these and are blocking their addition. FloridaArmy (talk) 16:46, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @FloridaArmy, welcome to the Teahouse. Someone certainly could do that - you might have more slightly more luck asking at a relevant WikiProject, rather than here. There's even Draft:Takatomi Senge. I'm not sure what you mean by "blocking their addition" though, since the title isn't create-protected. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:51, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@FloridaArmy It seems like you believe that your drafts are more important and should get reviewed first, which is excusable for a newcomer but you have a hundred-thousand edits? The Tips of Apmh 17:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Knoops Chocolate

Hi, I have a question. I recently created a draft and submit at Afc it got accepted and reviewed as well. Knoops Chocolate

My question is my does the talk page is listed on google? Why not the article page? Simonriley1994 (talk) 17:38, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Simonriley1994: just to be clear, your draft wasn't reviewed at AfC and accepted, it was moved into the main space by a relatively new editor who is not an AfC reviewer. The article has since been patrolled, however, but that was only a few hours ago, which may explain why it doesn't yet show up on Google searches. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:50, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Formatting and false and misleading content

1. is there a format program or manual to review as i have a hard time formatting even simple changes.

2. why do you allow clearly political statements especially from subjects of the 1950s and 1960s yet refuse to publish fact ( which is established) later in the 1990s or 2000s with KGB/CIA and other files become open public knowledge? Especially in Africa de colonization and civil wars conflicts 69.157.244.174 (talk) 17:42, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor, and welcome to the Teahouse. Could you give an example of an article which refuse to publish fact (which is established)? ContributeToTheWiki (talk) 17:47, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello. WP:CHEATSHEET may be useful. As for your second question, it is far too vague and sweeping and open ended. Wikipedia editors deal with specific questions about specific articles. If you claim that some editors "refuse to publish fact", then you need to provide convincing evidence in the form of specific articles and talk page discussions. Cullen328 (talk) 17:50, 26 May 2023 (UTC)