Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article

Unreviewed Featured articles: year-end summary

Restoring older Featured articles to standard:

year-end 2022 summary

Unreviewed featured articles/2020 (URFA/2020) is a systematic approach to reviewing older Featured articles (FAs) to ensure they still meet the FA standards. A January 2022 Signpost article called "Forgotten Featured" explored the effort.

Progress is recorded at the monthly stats page. Through 2022, with 4,526 very old (from the 2004–2009 period) and old (2010–2015) FAs initially needing review:

• 357 FAs were delisted at Featured article review (FAR).
• 222 FAs were kept at FAR or deemed "satisfactory" by three URFA reviewers, with hundreds more being marked as "satisfactory", but awaiting three reviews.
• FAs needing review were reduced from 77% of total FAs at the end of 2020 to 64% at the end of 2022.

Of the FAs kept, deemed satisfactory by three reviewers, or delisted, about 60% had prior review between 2004 and 2007; another 20% dated to the period from 2008–2009; and another 20% to 2010–2015. Roughly two-thirds of the old FAs reviewed have retained FA status or been marked "satisfactory", while two-thirds of the very old FAs have been defeatured.

Entering its third year, URFA is working to help maintain FA standards; FAs are being restored not only via FAR, but also via improvements initiated after articles are reviewed and talk pages are noticed. Since the Featured Article Save Award (FASA) was added to the FAR process a year ago, 38 FAs were restored to FA status by editors other than the original FAC nominator. Ten FAs restored to status have been listed at WP:MILLION, recognizing articles with annual readership over a million pageviews, and many have been rerun as Today's featured article, helping increase mainpage diversity.

Examples of 2022 "FAR saves" of very old featured articles

Solar System 2007 FA J. K. Rowling 2007 FA June 26, 2022 TFA Antarctica 2006 FA Joan of Arc 2006 FA Speed of light 2010 FA

All received a Million Award

But there remain almost 4,000 old and very old FAs to be reviewed. Some topic areas and WikiProjects have been more proactive than others in restoring or maintaining their old FAs. As seen in the chart below, the following have very high ratios of FAs kept to those delisted (ordered from highest ratio):

• Biology
• Physics and astronomy
• Warfare
• Video gaming

and others have a good ratio of kept to delisted FAs:

• Literature and theatre
• Engineering and technology
• Religion, mysticism and mythology
• Media
• Geology and geophysics

... so kudos to those editors who pitched in to help maintain older FAs !

FAs reviewed at URFA/2020 through 2022 by content area

FAs reviewed at URFA/2020 from November 21, 2020 to December 31, 2022 (VO, O) Topic area Delisted Kept Total Reviewed Ratio Kept to Delisted (overall 0.62) Remaining to review for 2004–7 promotions Art, architecture and archaeology 10 6 16 0.60 19 Biology 13 41 54 3.15 67 Business, economics and finance 6 1 7 0.17 2 Chemistry and mineralogy 2 1 3 0.50 7 Computing 4 1 5 0.25 0 Culture and society 9 1 10 0.11 8 Education 22 1 23 0.05 3 Engineering and technology 3 3 6 1.00 5 Food and drink 2 0 2 0.00 3 Geography and places 40 6 46 0.15 22 Geology and geophysics 3 2 5 0.67 1 Health and medicine 8 3 11 0.38 5 Heraldry, honors, and vexillology 11 1 12 0.09 6 History 27 14 41 0.52 38 Language and linguistics 3 0 3 0.00 3 Law 11 1 12 0.09 3 Literature and theatre 13 14 27 1.08 24 Mathematics 1 2 3 2.00 3 Media 14 10 24 0.71 40 Meteorology 15 6 21 0.40 31 Music 27 8 35 0.30 55 Philosophy and psychology 0 1 1 – 2 Physics and astronomy 3 7 10 2.33 24 Politics and government 19 4 23 0.21 9 Religion, mysticism and mythology 14 14 28 1.00 8 Royalty and nobility 10 6 16 0.60 44 Sport and recreation 32 12 44 0.38 39 Transport 8 2 10 0.25 11 Video gaming 3 5 8 1.67 23 Warfare 26 49 75 1.88 31 Total 359 Note A 222 Note B 581 0.62 536 Noting some minor differences in tallies: A URFA/2020 archives show 357, which does not include those delisted which were featured after 2015; FAR archives show 358, so tally is off by at least one, not worth looking for. B FAR archives show 63 kept at FAR since URFA started at end of Nov 2020. URFA/2020 shows 61 Kept at FAR, meaning two kept were outside of scope of URFA/2020. Total URFA/2020 Keeps (Kept at FAR plus those with three Satisfactory marks) is 150 + 72 = 222.

But looking only at the oldest FAs (from the 2004–2007 period), there are 12 content areas with more than 20 FAs still needing review: Biology, Music, Royalty and nobility, Media, Sport and recreation, History, Warfare, Meteorology, Physics and astronomy, Literature and theatre, Video gaming, and Geography and places. In the coming weeks, URFA/2020 editors will be posting lists to individual WikiProjects with the goal of getting these oldest-of-the-old FAs reviewed during 2023.

Ideas for how you can help are listed below and at the Signpost article.

• Review a 2004 to 2007 FA. With three "Satisfactory" marks, article can be moved to the FAR not needed section.
• Review "your" articles: Did you nominate a featured article between 2004 and 2015 that you have continuously maintained? Check these articles, update as needed, and mark them as 'Satisfactory' at URFA/2020. A continuously maintained FA is a good predictor that standards are still met, and with two more "Satisfactory" marks, "your" articles can be listed as "FAR not needed". If they no longer meet the FA standards, please begin the FAR process by posting your concerns on the article's talk page.
• Review articles that already have one "Satisfactory" mark: more FAs can be indicated as "FAR not needed" if other reviewers will have a look at those already indicated as maintained by the original nominator. If you find issues, you can enter them at the talk page.
• Fix an existing featured article: Choose an article at URFA/2020 or FAR and bring it back to FA standards. Enlist the help of the original nominator, frequent FA reviewers, WikiProjects listed on the talk page, or editors that have written similar topics. When the article returns to FA standards, please mark it as 'Satisfactory' at URFA/2020 or note your progress in the article's FAR.
• Review and nominate an article to FAR that has been 'noticed' of a FAR needed but issues raised on talk have not been addressed. Sometimes nominating at FAR draws additional editors to help improve the article that would otherwise not look at it.

More regular URFA and FAR reviewers will help assure that FAs continue to represent examples of Wikipedia's best work. If you have any questions or feedback, please visit Wikipedia talk:Unreviewed featured articles/2020/4Q2022.

Douglas Albert Munro

I don't know anything about how to get an FA on the main page, so I would appreciate it if someone could nominate this unique article for the main page: Douglas Albert Munro. 70.161.8.90 (talk) 22:35, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I see that it ran as the TFA for October 11, 2019. Articles may run twice, but they must be at least five years apart. Accordingly, it can't run on the page again until October 11, 2024. If you come here again then, and remind us of your interest, it is likely that we'd be willing to accommodate you. Wehwalt (talk) 22:40, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Me again

Hi all. I became mostly inactive at TFA 20 months ago, but I'm feeling better now, and looking to get more active. Feedback is always welcome. Good to be back. - Dank (push to talk) 12:55, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

I’m sorry to hear you were unwell, Dank. Good to hear that things are going well again. Welcome back! Schwede66 15:37, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Enough is enough

So Battle of Helena is finishing up today's run for TFA. I was away from my computer and unable to monitor the page, and while there's some standard post-TFA cleanup like where non-consensus numbers were added with an obsolete source, but that's expected and normal. But I'm also having to re-protect the page because the 6-hour protection didn't stick, and having to answer this because some pervert put pornographic imagery into the article earlier today. And that's besides all of the standard formatting messing up and date vandalism that I'm going to have to correct in related articles like Little Rock campaign and Marmaduke-Walker duel.

Once upon a time, we were semi-protecting FACs before they went on because this happens almost every damn time. And that stopped, for reasons that have never been clear to me. So now we're showing porn when someone previews the TFA today. Between articles I've worked on or have helped with or have agreed to monitor for others, I'm probably maintaining about 150-175 articles. And that's a lot of vandalism and sneaky incorrect information and similar to clean up on an almost daily basis. And then you throw in the free-for-all that TFA has become.

Vandals or content creators? Who should get precedence? Frankly, the answer should be the latter but our TFA policies are heavily skewed to the former. I'm not a top-flight content creator, but I've been involved with the FA process for almost three years now in various ways. Real life has thrown some stuff at me in the last several months to the extent that I've been too burnt out to write content lately. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel in real life, but I'm having strong second thoughts about writing content again. The garden variety stuff I can deal with; that's just part of the process. But the community willfully placing vandals, trolls, and troublemongers ahead of those who actually bust our asses to produce encyclopedic content is another thing. Hog Farm _Talk 23:07, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I can see the argument that we shouldn't be making TFAs impossible to edit, but I'd support automatic application of pending changes protection to all articles linked from the main page that aren't otherwise protected. The vandalism is real on TFAs and unfortunately it doesn't always get reverted right away. (t · c) buidhe 23:27, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I vaguely recall a protection trial getting consensus and then never happening. Vaticidalprophet 23:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

The trial happened but for some reason it wasn't continued. (t · c) buidhe 01:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

An early 2021 RFC resulted in a trial of a bot to PC-protect the featured article. That trial happened in May 2021, but when the follow-up RFC happened in June 2021 a significant fraction of participants that time opposed any use of PC protection on general principle (i.e. not because of anything that happened during the trial) and people wound up deciding they'd rather have a trial for semi-protection instead. That trial eventually happened in September 2022. Following that was supposed to be another Village Pump RFC to analyze the results and determine if it should be continued going forward, but it seems no one ever did that. Anomie⚔ 11:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

So it seems that the followup needs to happen and that opining here will do no good. (FWIW, one of the several reasons I gave up on building new medical content was the debacle that TFA was for buruli ulcer along with some other ridiculousness that occurred with others.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:06, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

The results make an extremely strong case -- an additional RfC would likely have quite little opposition on the merits rather than the principles, if we can get a good way to present them. Vaticidalprophet 23:21, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

• Support some form of protection, even if it means creating an easement within the current policy (which IIRC forbids preemptive protection). SN54129 09:51, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

• Noting, porn on the mainpage during lung cancer, [2] and I just took a look at the improvements damage to the article in its mainpage day (today), and someone should protect the article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:20, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

  Best part. The editor who put the porn on the mainpage today is still unblocked. Yes, enough is enough. TFA isn't even being watched by enough admins to keep out porn = should be protected for the remainder. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:24, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

• Support semi-protecting TFAs one day before and while they are on the main page. Further protections can be considered if this does not solve the problems. Z1720 (talk) 12:43, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

  There have been multiple RFCS already ... supporting on this page isn't useful, as that is a local consensus problem. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

• I have had 45 FAs I nominated for FAC feature as a TFA over the past four-and-a-half years. Every single one of them has had some level of protection by the end of its 24 hours. I agree that it may be time to recognise reality, decline to dig ourselves further into this particular hole and write in a policy-level easement to preemptive protection. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:37, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
• Semi-protecting TFA is fine (usually FAs are so good these days that there is very little to be gained from opening edits to the whole world). I would oppose protection for other content linked from the Main Page, and I definitely oppose Pending Changes or other horrible non-wiki ways of dealing with changes. —Kusma (talk) 15:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
• This is embarrassing (the porn image in the infobox of TFA, not this discussion). If I, or another admin, just decided to semi every upcoming TFA around 23:00 each night, would said admin end up before the WP:Slough of Despond? After this, I’m willing to do it, but a bot would be so much better. Courcelles (talk) 17:46, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

  We have a local consensus and if we opened another RcC, that would give us justification to proceed with protection without much risk for trouble. Schwede66 18:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

  Sometimes you ask permission, sometimes you ask forgiveness. I believe there's a saying about their efficiency. Vaticidalprophet 23:18, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

  Michael Francis Rizzi, do you renounce Satan? SN54129 11:16, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

  @Vaticidalprophet, I did it for tomorrow’s. I’ll try and remember to keep doing so. Courcelles (talk) 23:31, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

  In practice: I think an RfC about the trial results can be done very soon, and if presented well (i.e. a way that doesn't force VPP's regulars to click too much), will sail through. "Four oversighted edits in four minutes" is emphatically something that makes a case. Vaticidalprophet 23:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

• Comment - just playing minor devil's advocate for a second, I assume that historically the reason for being careful about overprotectiion was that the TFA could be the way for potential newbies to learn that Wikipedia really is editable by anyone. I don't know if there's any evidence around whether there really are editors that we wouldn't recruit otherwise. As we mvoe to greater protection, and perhaps even requiring accounts in the future, we just need to think about keeping that "anyone can edit" message prominent, because there really are a lot of people who don't realise its the case. But anyway, given both the risk of articles being grotesquely vandalised and also the effect that has on editors like Sandy, based on the comments above, something definitely needs to be done and probably Semi-protectiom is The answer.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:00, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

  While I share the concerns about keeping the promise "anyone can edit", I no longer think TFA is a good place for a newbie (it is rather unlikely a random newbie can help) so I semi is OK in my book (DYK items are a much better target). If we are thinking about alternatives, the only other thing I see that could be done is to get more people to do RC patrol on TFA so we can quickly revert and block the vandals. —Kusma (talk) 12:16, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

  Well, it's not so much that we expect the newbies to contribute usefully to the FA, but the point is that you see an article, you hit the "Edit" button, and your change goes live. I think my first ever edit was to insert "cauliflower cheese" into an article as a joke/test, fully expecting it not to work, or be vetted in some way, but was astonished to see that it just saved straight into the page, and then realised I could also contribute.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:04, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

  If there isn't any data or "evidence around whether there really are editors that we wouldn't recruit otherwise", WMF will make some up based on a survey and twist it to suit their narrative. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:31, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

• Counter-example After reading this discussion, I took a look at the current FA. Picking a paragraph at random, I immediately found and corrected a malapropism. I was able to edit through the semi-protection but ordinary readers would not. So, the idea that FAs are so pristine that they don't need correction is mistaken. My impression is that they are usually so long that most of the text is read by few people and so such errors can persist for some time.

FYI, the error was introduced in this good faith edit rather than being the result of vandalism.

Andrew🐉(talk) 08:27, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

• Strong Support semi-protecting TFAs one day before and while they are on the main page. Enough is enough. Are we going to let the article that is essentially the face of the encyclopaedia for a day get degraded by vandals? No. JML1148 ^{(talk | contribs)} 08:10, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Announcement from the coordinators

The TFA coordinators would like to notify and ask the community’s approvals of some changes in our lineup. First, Jimfbleak, after many years of service to the community as a TFA coordinator, has decided to step back from the role effective at the end of July. I’m sure the community will join us in thanking him for all his hard work over the years. This leaves only one active coordinator, myself, but Dank, our longtime colleague who had to step back due to health reasons, has agreed to return, and we’d like the community’s approval to reinstate him as a coordinator. Also, we’d like to formally make Gog the Mild, who for some time has been doing the work anyway, a coordinator. I will be remaining as a coordinator.

To summarize, we’d like the community’s approval of changing from a coordinator lineup of Jimfbleak and Wehwalt to Dank, Gog the Mild and Wehwalt, effective 1 August 2023.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:44, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• I have no concerns with this. Noting here that this will mean Gog is a FAC coordinator and a TFA coordinator, which also does not concern me as Gog has been unofficially doing the work of both already without issue. Z1720 (talk) 17:54, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
• Sure! Thanks everyone for your past and future service. —Kusma (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
• Gog commences his encirclement of the 6th Army 😜 SN54129 21:23, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
• I was under the impression that Gog was already a TFA coordinator; I can think of no one more deserving or hard-working. If he wishes to step up to that role, I approve of the decision. Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:34, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
• support, with gratitude for Jimfbleak's many years of service. dying (talk) 00:15, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
• If we don’t approve does Jim have to stay on? Best wishes all and thanks for everyone’s work in this area. Stephen 00:55, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
• No objections here and many thanks for all the work you guys do to keep TFA operational. (t · c) buidhe 01:32, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
• Sounds fine to me. And many thanks to Jim for his years of work in this role. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:31, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
• Dank. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:44, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
• Part of the reason blurbs need to be so thoroughly copyedited of late is that there has been an increasing trend at FAC to NOT review leads to assure that a blurb can be easily generated from them.
  1. I disagree with the lack of transparency in FA Coord section processes; were ALL active former and current FA process (FAC, FAR and TFA Coords) consulted, as they used to be, and were submissions solicited BEFORE decisions were made? (Of course, I know the answer to that question, but others should as well.)
  2. Was dying asked to serve ? As the editor who copyedits every single blurb, I hope their name was in the mix, although ideally a TFA Coord would be someone who has years of experience at actively improving LEADS at FAC and FAR.
  3. I disagree with duplicating Coords across processes, as it creates a conflict of interest, can dilute presence elsewhere, and concentrates too much decision-making in individuals. There are plenty of people engaged in FA processes; why the duplication?
  4. I strongly advocate that the FA process needs to move Coord selection out of the MilHist realm and increase diversity of representation; that is, we are losing a biology Coord, and retaining more MilHist Coords.
• Everyone should know by what process these decisions are being made; the former robustness in the process is gone, and it is unclear with what it has been replaced.
  Thank you, Jimfbleak for your years of service and your wonderfully collaborative tone. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:44, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  It's relatively simple, Sandy. Jimfbleak let us know last month he planned to resign. Dying's name did come up, but we didn't go very far down that road as Dank let us know he felt able to come back and that put an end to it, because it would be very unfair to Dank to refuse to allow him to resume a job he was forced to put aside for reasons of health. Gog the Mild's elevation to coordinator is more administrative than anything else, as you know, he's done the work for the past two or three years, and since we were going to the community anyway to get its approval of Dank's return, it seemed an opportune time.

  As for being coordinator of multiple projects, Ealdgyth previously did it and I don't remember anyone having any objections to that.

  As anyone knows who has followed my position over the years, I believe in openness in coordinator selection and would like to see it, and am in particular glad to see you, Sandy, speak in favor of it. But here, there's little opportunity for that as all we're doing is reconfirming someone returning from absence due to illness and formalizing the position of someone who has been doing the work anyway. Wehwalt (talk) 14:38, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  I cannot recall if Ealdgyth served double roles during my extended "away" period; if today you were re-appointing Ealdgyth, in spite of my admiration for her, I would have the same objection if she were fulfilling multiple roles and if there had not been a transparent process taking into account the concerns of all current and former FA process (FAC, FAR, TFA) Coords and delegates. (I would have less concern about her, though, because at least she brings breadth outside of MILHIST.) That gives you more breadth across the full process than just TFA Coords convening. I think our process is broken, unacceptable, has resulted in faulty decisions in the past, and is overdue for a very well-planned and well-developed RFC (that is, not a quickly thrown up RFC). We have lost the robustness we once had, we lost it at the point Dank was appointed with a misstatement that all Coords (former and current) endorsed the appointments then (they did not-- it was too MILHIST heavy then, and has gotten more so that way since), and there is no current process (it is now ad hoc-- getting approval after the fact doesn't change that, as no one will want to speak up in opposition to very good editors, which all are). This is no reflection on how well anyone does or does not do the job; we need breadth and transparency in process, and we need to keep breadth across topic-content areas. Losing Ucucha, Ealdgyth, Laser brain, Graham Beards, Sarastro, Sasata, etc in the FAC process, while always adding MILHIST Coords, is simply not a good trend. We saw this in the last set of FAC Coords; now we're seeing it here. We are becoming a closed shop. The FA process needs to expand beyond MILHIST, and that should be a big factor in these defacto appointments. And I regret that dying was not consulted. Yes, all of you have done a good job, and it takes <something> to speak in opposition. I'm sorry to be the one to do that, hope no one thinks it's personal, and hope the message will be heard. This is your chance to bring in new blood; do it in consultation with ALL Coords-- there are plenty of good editors out there who could do this job. Some of my best friends and favorite editors are MILHIST; it's not personal. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:42, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  Popcorn time! It's "Wehwalt v. Sandy, part deux: This time it's 2012... again" 🤪 SN54129 20:00, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  What a surprising, disappointing and unhelpful response, SN. I have no issues with Wehwalt; this is a general process concern at a time when we could be/should be looking to restore the process overall, and have a meaningful dialogue about ways in which that can be done. It's 2023. Wehwalt has done just fine as TFA Coord (and is the sole non-MILHIST Coord). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:05, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  Sandy and I have long since let bygones be bygones. Wehwalt (talk) 20:38, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  I thought so, too <whew>. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:42, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  😻👍 SN54129 10:54, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

  FWIW, back in the day there was concern in regards to Crisco's dual role here at TFA and his role at POTD; so it's not a new concern nor has anything to do with SG and/or Wehwalt, diff to previous TFA coord discussion. Personally I think FAC/TFA is more problematic than TFA/POTD. Victoria (tk) 21:44, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you for finding that link, Victoriaearle; I hadn't had time yet. It demonstrates that, as I said, that was the last time that all current and former Coords were consulted on FA process appointments. And my difference with that discussion was that it was presented as if we all agreed, when in fact, we decidedly did not.

  Hi all, the current and former TFA/FAC/FAR coordinators would like to put forward Brianboulton, Crisco 1492 and Dank as the TFA Coordinator team. They've all indicated a willingness to serve, and I think we'd all agree that between them they represent great depth and breadth of experience in TFA, Featured Content and WP as a whole. ... Ian Rose (talk) 11:03, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

  Since then, we have stopped bringing all Coords into FA process discussions (which I don't consider healthy-- was Nikkimaria consulted, for example?), and we should not have one Coord, who has been on board now for over a decade, perpetuating such a strong MILHIST dominance of the FA process. We're in a position now that if you suggest we need more breadth in subject-area coverage, it looks like criticism of the appointees, which it is not, and that makes it difficult to speak up (as occurred in the last FAC appointments). It is a problem that we have lost breadth in subject area representation, and we have lost transparency and breadth in terms of who is involved in these decisions. And it's time for someone to be willing to look at all that ails the FA process, and begin to craft a comprehensive RFC, including how Coords are appointed. (Please no elections, but when all current and former Coords were consulted, at least there was more breadth and depth.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:09, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

  Just a note that apparently this hasn't been the case for quite some time. I've been a TFA coordinator for six years and nothing's come across my desk asking for input on FAC or FAR coordinator appointments. I can't speak for anyone else. Wehwalt (talk) 13:13, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, I know, as I know exactly when it stopped :) And that unhealthy trend continues. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:36, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

  oh, oh, wow. i had no idea people had seen me as a possible tfa coordinator candidate, let alone that my name had come up amongst the coordinators themselves. (i imagine the mention went something like this scene from the barbie trailer.) prior to this discussion, i had seen myself largely as gnomish support.

  i have admittedly only been involved with tfa recently, so am unfamiliar with some of the issues that have been brought up, but i think SandyGeorgia raises some valid concerns, even though i know of no easy ways to resolve them. i obviously think Dank is suitable for the position. Gog is certainly capable and has already been doing the job for a while now, so i think the approval is simply a formality. i cannot see myself replacing either of them; i simply lack the experience.

  regardless, for some time, i had been hoping to understand more about the fa process by participating either in fac or far, and since i don't think any of my content is currently worthy of fa status, i think i will start prioritizing lurking at far for a while before i try to figure out how i can contribute there.

  in the interest of full disclosure, i should note that, although i have yet to nominate an article for either ga or fa status, an article i created has been promoted to ga status, kri nanggala (402), which is primarily about the sinking of a submarine, but is incidentally also a milhist article. interestingly, it was someone's suggestion of nominating this article for ga status that got me started on doing regular in-depth copyedits of tfa blurbs, as i had figured that doing this for a few months would give me the experience to go through with a ga nomination. as it turns out, doing these copyedits was far more rewarding than i had expected. dying (talk) 10:30, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

  dying, FAR is a good place to get your feet wet, as it is more forgiving in the sense that you aren't usually holding up someone's nomination while you learn the ropes. The timeline there is quite forgiving, and you're less likely to have an angry nominator if you goof :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:40, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

  PS, it would be grand if, once you felt you have learned those ropes, you could also move in to reviewing every lead at FAC and FAR as an article is approaching promotion or kept status, with an eye towards whether a blurb can be easily crafted from the lead. That would be, probably, around five to seven at most FACs or FARs per week; I'm not sure anyone is carefully scrutinizing for WP:LEAD compliance and the kinds of blurb problems you keep ientifying. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:46, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

• No concerns; thanks to those who are volunteering. Schwede66 18:40, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
• Fine - many thanks to all co-ords, past, present and future.[Johnbod] 03:54, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
• While multi-hatting can be a problem, Gog has clearly been handling it so far informally, and I see no reason to doubt their ability to assess their availability. Jimfbleak voluntarily resigning and dank returning following an earlier voluntary resignation provide neatly timed examples of self-assessment of availability changes. Thanks to all the volunteers. CMD (talk) 02:40, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
• Echoing CMD's comment above: I don't think we're likely to see a problem here, particularly as he's already been doing the job for a while. If any problems do arise in the future (and I would think this is only a remote possibility that may occur once in a blue moon), then this can be addressed in an informal chat as and when it arrives. ps. Jimfbleak, thank you for all you've done - it's been hugely appreciated. Cheers. - SchroCat (talk) 11:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia, Victoriaearle, is it OK if we dispense with any formal close and consider Dank and Gog officially appointed, once this has been running a week, notwithstanding your concerns? Assuming there are no further concerns. Just so we can keep getting on with the work of TFA. Of course, you're always free to initiate any proposals you want or start any RFAs. If necessary, we can have it formally closed, I guess, but that seems unnecessary under the circumstances.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:10, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I have no issue with that, and understand work has to proceed at TFA. My concerns are more long-term-- that we should be prepping a well thought out (ie not hasty) RFC to revisit all of the issues I've raised and more, rather than continuing with this ad hoc but not well defined and not at all transparent manner of appointing Coords, the need for diversity, the sliding definition of the roles, the need to get the overall FA process reinvigorated, etc. Thanks for asking! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:32, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Wehwalt, apologies for the delay. It's okay with me. I wouldn't be opposed to hashing out a mechanism for choosing in the future. Thanks for all of your work - TFA has been ticking along nicely! Thanks, too, to Jimfbleak's many years of work here. Sorry to see him go. Victoria (tk) 13:39, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks to you both. I also have no opposition to any RFC people want. Since we have not had one in several years it may be time to re-examine aspects of the FA projects. As for the coordinators, if there's no objection posted by 23:59 Friday July 14 (so just over a week since opening), we'll consider it closed. Wehwalt (talk) 13:43, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Sounds good (I'm in no shape in terms of IRL stuff to begin thinking about an RFC just yet ... maybe things will settle down eventually ... ) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:47, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

• Support Dan, fwiw oppose Gog, who I think, like Buide, over-steps their brief. Ceoil (talk) 21:42, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I think perhaps I'll put in a request at WP:CR once this has been open for seven days.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:00, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think kicking to touch like that is a very good idea. Whose voice matters here; random patrolling admins? Ceoil (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I agreed with Sandy and Victoriaearle that it could be closed informally if no one opposed. You've opposed. You have every right to, but if I then closed it informally, then people would say that I was being inconsistent. Wehwalt (talk) 01:02, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Wehwalt, I made a random comment above basically in reply to the comment about Sandy/Wehwalt. I didn't realize that your ping this morning was asking me to agree on a closure method. I'm really mot at all involved with FA/TFA these days and don't want to sway the process in that way. I believe I misunderstood. Do the words "It's okay with me" mean that I'm greenlighting more or less than anyone else? Regardless, I might be back, but also might not be back. In the meantime, I'll strike (though I've kept in the part about thanking for volunteering. Victoria (tk) 01:09, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

There's no need to strike anything, Victoriaearle. It's just because Ceoil is opposing, which he has every right to do. I believe there is consensus, but I don't think it's the function of a coordinator to judge that. Wehwalt (talk) 01:39, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

As I'm in the minority and there is there is otherwise consensus, ok with Wehwalt -as coordinator, whom I trust- closing this. Welcome back Dan, you have been missed :) Ceoil (talk) 03:58, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Ceoil, we'll go ahead and close it ourselves after tonight. I appreciate your understanding. Wehwalt (talk) 13:23, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Just reiterating that this sounds good to me. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:28, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

• Support Dank and Gog, thanks to Jimfbleak. And sure, add Dying to the mix. The more coordinators, the better. FunkMonk (talk) 01:08, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tentative list for September

A very tentative list for September may be found here. By no means am I cutting off TFA/R nominations or other suggestions, I'm simply posting it early because of upcoming travel. Scheduling should not begin until close to the end of the month. Please leave comments at the foot of the page I've posted. Wehwalt (talk) 01:49, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

October

Hi all, thanks for your support. I'll be scheduling October. It's true, I still don't know as much as I'd like to about TFA, so any help with vetting or improving any of the TFA articles will be much appreciated. There's one TFA rerun proposed so far at the pending page for October, and I'd like to propose four more: Funerary art and The Smashing Pumpkins for late in the month, and Maple syrup and Medieval cuisine for Canadian Thanksgiving and the various Columbus Day holidays. Any objections or suggestions? - Dank (push to talk) 20:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Maple syrup looks rough to me -- Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 20:24, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Dank: I'm not sure if you know about WP:URFA/2020, but it's an initiative to review older FAs to ensure that they comply with the FA criteria. At the bottom of WP:URFA/2020A and WP:URFA/2020B there is a list of FAs that have either passed FAR since late 2020 or been marked "Satisfactory" by three reviewers. It also lists when they last appeared at TFA. If you ever want article suggestions, feel free to consult those lists or post a message on the project's talk page.

I am also keeping an informal list off-wiki of possible TFA nominations for specific dates (I like it when TFA articles honour something that happened on that date). The only article on my list for October with a TFA re-run is Stephens City, Virginia for Oct 12, its 265th anniversary of the city's founding. Any thoughts on my nominations are appreciated. Z1720 (talk) 20:31, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Dank, the format you're using is a bit confusing. Which is the one RFA proposed at pending (I can't deciper)? As you can see from Wehwalt's chart, giving the FAC date makes it easier to cross-compare to WP:URFA/2020 to see which are old, or very old, and which have already been checked. With all the work that has already been done at URFA, and set up in a way that you can also view last TFA dates, I hope you'll avail yourself of that resource. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:41, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: I think Walt Disney is the TFA re-run that Dank refers to above that has been suggested at TFAP. Z1720 (talk) 20:48, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Just curious: how does one discover that? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:37, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

I would be grateful for anything people want to do at URFA, or anywhere else, to help with vetting. The reason this request has an off-the-cuff feeling to it is: I've just been reconfirmed, and October nominations could open up at TFAR in as little as two or three weeks ... formal vetting processes often have longer time scales than that. (My plan is to let people know well in advance about any rerun suggestions I have for January.) I have no objections at all if anyone has a suggestion for different or additional reruns for October. But generally, the best place to get a discussion started about these articles is on the article talk pages, and I've done that for Talk:Medieval cuisine and Talk:The Smashing Pumpkins; comments are welcome. Sandy, TFA coords don't usually create the kind of table you're talking about until TFAR nominations for the relevant month have been open for a while (although Wehwalt does do some early work in sandboxes). I'm sorry if you're not finding everything you want; again, time is tight, and hopefully we'll get the bugs worked out before it's time to talk about January scheduling. - Dank (push to talk) 22:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Guerillero, I saw a lot of editors I know in the long history of Maple syrup ... I read it and ran various tools and I was happy enough to at least want to start talking about it. Even if we don't use it this year, I'd like to consider running it in October of a future year, because the symbolism will be immediately recognizable for a lot of Main Page readers ... maple so that Canadians understand that we're acknowledging their holiday, and a food item relevant to October, to celebrate a harvest month. Let's discuss on the article talk page. - Dank (push to talk) 22:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

The only one of these that doesn't have a relevant talk page post yet is Funerary art ... I'll go do that now. I had already hopped into an ongoing discussion at User_talk:Lingzhi.Renascence#Funerary art, and that discussion was reassuring. But again, I have no objection to putting any of these suggestions off to a future year if people would like more time to work on them or vet them. - Dank (push to talk) 22:51, 16 July 2023 (UTC)