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What to do when multiple reliable sources publish misleading information?

In regards to Dave the Diver - Wikipedia this article. An administrator previously threatened to block a user for trying to edit the article to state that the game was not an indie game, when in fact it was. The admin's reasoning was due to reliable sources stating the game was "indie". Even though the incident appears to be resolved it makes me curious about how a similar incident would be solved for posterity 🅶🅰🅼🅾🆆🅴🅱🅱🅴🅳 (talk) 13:08, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

@Gamowebbed WP:RSN. Doug Weller talk 18:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

@Gamowebbed WP:DR might be of interest. When there's dispute about whether a source is reliable or not for any particular piece of information, and editors politely but persistently disagree, that tends to go to WP:DRN or WP:3O and maybe eventually WP:RFC. If someone is a dick about it or otherwise disrupts that process, that's when admins tend to step in. An admin shouldn't be using the threat of blocks to enforce a content issue like "what do the sources say". -- asilvering (talk) 12:18, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the info @Asilvering, I have decided to submit an ANI to seek administrator counsel. 🅶🅰🅼🅾🆆🅴🅱🅱🅴🅳 (talk) 14:27, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh dear. -- asilvering (talk) 16:12, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

For posterity. Folly Mox (talk) 03:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Page Numbers

How do I add page numbers when citing books? LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 04:01, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! In the {{Cite book}} template, you can specify one page with the |p= parameter, or a range of pages with the |pp= parameter. If you need help using these parameters in the Visual editor or otherwise would like clarification, let me know! Remsense留 04:03, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Can I use the template with an auto-generated citation? LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 04:08, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes! When you put in an ISBN or otherwise automatically generate a citation for a book, what it does is create a {{Cite book}} template under the hood. If you are using VisualEditor, do you see where you can specify page numbers? If not, check out Help:VisualEditor#Editing templates.
If you are not using VisualEditor, you should be able to add the parameter with all the others! Don't hesitate to ask me for more help if you still need it. :) Remsense留 04:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

LeónGonsalvesofGoa, if a book is cited at all, it's typically cited more than once. Rather than having two or more fully written out REF tags, differing only in page numbers, consider using the combination of (A) named references -- <ref name="arbitrary_name">{{Cite book | [lots of bibliographical detail but no page number(s)]}}</ref> just once, <ref name="arbitrary_name" /> every other time -- and (B) Template:Rp. -- Hoary (talk) 07:29, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

There's already two good options here, but another alternative is to add the |ref= parameter in your first citation (e.g. <ref>{{cite book |last=Lastname |first=Firstname |title=Apples and Oranges |year=2013 |publisher=Penguin |pages=105–107 |ref=Lastname2013}}</ref>) and then when the citation comes up again, add <ref>[[#Lastname2013|Lastname 2013]], p. 113.</ref> This'll end up looking like this:

Some scientists say apples are oranges. Other scientists say apples are lemons. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 05:11, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

This alternative is a non-standard approach not mentioned in help or info pages, and I wouldn't recommend it, especially not for a new user. Instead, follow what Hoary said above, which reflects the recommended way of reusing references as explained in the Help page at Footnotes: using a source more than once. Mathglot (talk) 10:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

delete all the

per "i added an image to this article and was then informed that that image might not have actually been the legal way to do it", can image deletion be handled here, as opposed to in commons? cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 19:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Cogsan. Welcome to the Teahouse. You can undo the edit yourself by going to the article's 'view history' tab and clicking on the undo button in the latest entry. In the edit history, you can mention it as 'self-revert'. Hope this helps <3 Jeraxmoira (talk) 19:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

That is how you remove it from the article, but that doesn't delete the actual image file. @Cogsan: If the file is at Commons, you will need to follow Commons procedure, yes. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 19:58, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Ah! I think I misunderstood your question earlier. To address it properly now, I've tagged the image for speedy deletion, following your request. Jeraxmoira (talk) 19:57, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

guess that works lol

thanks cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 20:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

incidentally, wouldn't it have been a g11, as opposed to a g7? cogsan _{(give me attention) (see my deeds)} 20:19, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

No. You requested the deletion. G11 is promotional; this image was not promotional. It could have been filed as a G12, unambiguous copyvio. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Notes in entry on Gilbert Stuart (artist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Stuart

I've had a problem with the following note corrections (given in quotes). Would someone please help? I'd be very grateful.

Note 2, change Ireland to "London." At the end of the note, add this explanatory source for the name problem: "Evans, Dorinda, Gilbert Stuart and the Impact of Manic Depression, Ashgate Publishing Ltd., 2013, p. 127."

Note 35: "Quote from Jane Stuart in" Evans, 2013, p. 14.

Note 46: add missing pages at the end of the note: Evans 2013, pp. 18-19, "69-73, 82-84, 148."

Thanks so much for your attention. DEvans2 (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

@DEvans2: I don't understand what you're asking, but for suggesting changes to an article, start a discussion on the talk page. RudolfRed (talk) 20:21, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Or, better, be WP:BOLD and fix it. RudolfRed (talk) 20:22, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I've submiotted my request again and tried to make it clearer. These are corrections to my own text. DEvans2 (talk) 21:36, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not seeking a discussion; I'm making corrections to what I wrote earlier in notes. This is self-correction. If you can't do it, please allow someone else to try. What is not clear about it? DEvans2 (talk) 21:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

@DEvans2, what is not clear is that we don't understand what you're asking us to do.

The page is not protected, you can make any corrections yourself. Valereee (talk) 22:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

The Editing Source page is almost gibberish. For instance, I want to correct what I already wrote in note 2 but that text now is " ref name = gsm />. It's meaningless without even a note number. How can I improve on what I can't read? I'm asking to make corrections in notes 2, 35, and 46. Or please lead me to where it is not all in code. When I worked on the entry before, the setup was different. I'm a beginner and not sure what I've done wrong. DEvans2 (talk) 01:31, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

DEvans2, if for some reason you cannot make corrections yourself, please describe the hurdle that you face. RudolfRed, Valereee and I can each of us do what you ask us to, but I imagine that they are as reluctant as I am either (A) to work unthinkingly for another editor or (B) to spend time evaluating asked-for changes before carrying them out. -- Hoary (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I did change notes 2 and 44 (previously note 46; not sure why instantly changed). Then I accidentally made a "cite error" in ending note 35. It should read: 35. Quote from Jane Stuart in Evans 2013, p. 14. This is under Personal Life, after the "exceedingly pretty" quote. The Help page gives instances of the error. How do I now re-do the note and remove the red citation? Sorry to be such a bother. DEvans2 (talk) 02:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Re the 46 to 44 change: as I think I've told you before, the references are numbered automatically (in the order they first appear in the text), so if someone (perhaps yourself, perhaps someone else) has deleted (or moved) a couple of different references from before what was 46, all those after the first deleted reference will drop their number by 1, and all those after the second deletion by a further 1. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.215.44 (talk) 15:03, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, this is obvious and I knew that. I didn't knowingly delete something. The problem now is getting rid of the red citation. DEvans2 (talk) 15:13, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

@DEvans2 I commented it out. If it is needed, then you can add it back where it's cited and remove the <!-- and --> Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much, Mike. I really appreciate the help several of you have given. It's difficult for a novice, and I probably won't tgry this again. DEvans2 (talk) 22:36, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

@DEvans2, I'd hate to see you decide not to contribute. I'm sorry I couldn't help more, I took a look a couple of times to see if I could figure out the problem, but unfortunately the citation style for the particular set of citations you were trying to work with is one I also find it very fiddly and difficult to work with, and therefore a bit daunting. Most articles I work with, I don't have that problem, so don't be reluctant to give it another try in future. Valereee (talk) 00:07, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your kind reply. DEvans2 (talk) 15:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Request feedback about draft article improvement

Hello all, I have been working on and off to create my first article Draft:Bhargav Sri Prakash . It started as a class project for school but it has turned in to quite a research project and I am learning a lot! Thank you to the experienced editors for reviewing my submission. I value your suggestions and to those who have contributed with edits. I have been researching more online and found a lot more news articles. However I am not sure I am on the right track with formatting and content. Basically I am looking at other articles and trying to learn by adapting the style. Can you please take a look and give me your advice? Thanking you, KrisJohanssen (talk) 08:21, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @KrisJohanssen, the draft mainly cites primary sources and only a few secondary sources making the subject less notable. I feel like some parts of it are written like a resume. Leoneix _(talk) 09:50, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your kind and insightful feedback @Leoneix. I will work to make it less resume like. Can you please help me by removing any unfit primary sources? That way it the article can be edited based on the few secondary sources alone. As I am new to article creation I am not very sure about how to determine the difference. From my limited understanding when an article is written by an independent journalist or reporter and it has been published by a reputable newspaper/magazine/journal then it can qualify as an acceptable secondary source. Can you please clarify this for me? As I have tried to leave out any thing which appears as quotes in the articles where Mr Sri-Prakash was interviewed. This draft is mainly based on what the journalist has written in their own words. Thank you KrisJohanssen (talk) 15:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

The subject comes across as a self-promoting bullshitter. His main claims to fame are that he was a national tennis champion (he wasn't), and that he's invemted a "digital vaccine" (it's not a vaccine). KrisJohanssen, I suggest that you find a more deserving subject for your efforts. Maproom (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

it doesn't matter what the persons done, if they're notable, then they could have a page about them. if we only made pages about good people, we wouldn't have pages like Hitler, Andrew Tate, Osama Bin Laden, etc. also, I suggest that you find a more deserving subject for your efforts. I wouldn't tell people on what they should and shouldn't edit. Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Talk to me!) (Goo Goo dolls) 19:56, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Sure, but the salient points for the editor of this article is that they should be *very* critical of the sources they use, and they should seek not to over-promote the subject. The article right now is larded with superlatives, peacock terms, notability by association, overcitation &c. The first four paragraphs of the article say, in essence, the same thing: he's invented some sort of gamified health education platform. It does not require four paragraphs of hyperbole to say this. The style of the article and the denseness of the citations set off all manner of bullshit klaxons for uninvolved experienced editors: it's highly unlikely the article will be promoted unless the editor takes several steps back and thins out both the claims and the citations. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree Lead far too long, hence repitition with content in body of draft, and I moved tennis to Personal life, as contributes nothing toward establishing notability. Creating editor shold be asked if COI or PAID applies, and work on neutral point of view before resubmitting. David notMD (talk) 20:16, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

started as a class project for school—has the instructor worked with Wikipedia:Education program to ensure that the assignment is actually achievable and will minimize disruption to Wikipedia? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you @Rotideypoc41352 I am not sure if my instructor has worked with the education program. I can ask her and get back to you. The assignment was to learn about editing wikipedia and trying the editing tools. The assignment coincided with the time I saw the financial times transformation business ceremony where Bhargav Sri Prakash received the award and gave his acceptance speech. The class and assignment were done in the beginning fall term of 2022. KrisJohanssen (talk) 16:58, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you @Tagishsimon I will be much more critical of the sources and ensure I remove any hyperbole. You mentioned over citation and peacock terms. Can you please remove those to help me learn the exact tone which is unacceptable on Wikipedia. KrisJohanssen (talk) 17:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I don't feel that Sri Prakash is anywhere in the same league as Hitler or Bin Laden though KrisJohanssen (talk) 17:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate your feedback here @Maproom. I see your point opposing the sentence that he was a national tennis champion. I made the mistake of omitting "junior" in the description of his tennis. Thank you to @David notMD who has accurately edited the article and created a personal life section.

As I replied to your insightful comment on the talk page of the article draft, please see this article in the Hindu Business Line. I understand Hindu Business Line is the business newspaper published by The Hindu. I checked to see the reliability of all these newspapers as I am not familiar with the papers in India. It seems to be regarded as a newspaper of record by Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/business-tech/how-ai-aided-digital-vaccines-can-be-a-game-changer/article65389614.ece

The article says

"He played professional tennis in his younger days and represented India in international junior tennis events".

"Prakash’s invention is the first vaccine."

Additionally I found peer reviewed acceptance of his work with digital vaccine at what appears to be a reputable medical conference at Stanford School of Medicine in 2018. Kindly see this link to a medical conference presentation at Stanford MedicineX ED 2018 that I came across

https://medicinex.stanford.edu/ed-2018-presentations/#1466453233937-fd1ec662-5558

You will find his abstract among other peer reviewed abstracts accepted for presentation. It is under the PCOR CER tab co authored by Rema Padman and Yi-Chin Lin is titled "An approach to scaling evidence backed Digital Vaccines based on Neuropsychology to impact Global Health"

I am no expert to judge the scientific merit but I am just trying to go by what I found online through my research. First time I read about digital vaccines was on the FTIFC Awards page and I watched his speech on the livestream of Financial Times and International Finance Corporation Transformational Business Awards (recording 42 min 15 sec)

https://transformationalbusiness.live.ft.com/page/2146059/register-for-on-demand

I am inspired by what he said and what I discovered about him and his work in health. I am becoming interested in AI. This I why I chose to work on an article about him because I thought there should be an article after the FTIFC award. I definitely do not see him as a bull shitter and firmly disagree with your dismissive comments about better use of my time. Thank you @Babysharkbos2 I am young and inexperienced as a wikipedia editor but I want to put my effort in to things I believe improve life for the future. This experience actually fuels me to dig deeper to find a rightful place for those who are dedicated to social causes

I agree I am not qualified to edit properly but I seek your help and advice to improve my editing authoring skills and for ways to become a long term contributor. Thank you KrisJohanssen (talk) 16:52, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

base href , to reduce page size

Hi. Does wikipedia offer a way to do <base href="..."> ? I'm trying to reduce the wikipedia page size on a page with many outside links. Thanks! Kweetal nl (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Kweetal nl: this isn't an answer to your question as such, but may be relevant nevertheless: other than citations, and a few select links in the end matter, Wikipedia articles shouldn't really have external links. Okay, it's not quite as drastic as that, but that's pretty much the gist of WP:EL. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:18, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Heh. They /are/ citations (i.e., links to BHL pages). (BHL = biodiversity heritage library).

(but perhaps people will not find it interesting) - Kweetal nl (talk) 10:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

If (?) you mean User:Kweetal nl/sandbox49, then no, they're not citations; they're inline external links. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok - I'll remove it (largely). - Kweetal nl (talk) 11:31, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for providing that context. This might be an XY problem. Using the {{BHL author}} or {{BHL page}} templates might be useful. DMacks (talk) 09:51, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

The entirity of supported html tags is listed at Help:HTML in wikitext § Elements, <base> is not amongst them. Victor Schmidt (talk) 17:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Verifiable links

I do not understand what type of links are unverifiable in my draft Draft:Smita N. Kinkale. Anonymousartuser (talk) 11:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

The sources you have provided are largely either user-generated, (Linkedin, which is not acceptable as a source whatsoever) very close to the subject (the galleries their work has been displayed in), or not directly about the subject (a short news blurb about 12 people including the subject). Otherwise, statements made in the article do not seem to be informed by the reliable sources you have provided. See below. Remsense留 11:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

@Anonymousartuser The whole "About works" portion of the biography has no sources at all. Who interpreted her art that way? You? Please read Wikipedia's policy about biographies of living people carefully. All significant statements have to be backed up by reliable published sources. You have re-submitted the draft without addressing the issues identified in its previous review. Therefore it is likely to be rapidly declined again. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:07, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

.... as it has been. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

@Anonymousartuser Judging by your User rename request you are attempting to write an autobiography. That is strongly discouraged for the reasons given at that link. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:20, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

@Anonymousartuser You need to cut the "Critic reviews" texts drastically, see MOS:QUOTE. Note that a WP-article about Smita N. Kinkale is supposed to be a summary of WP:RS about but independent of Smita N. Kinkale. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

just looked at the draft, and yikes. Firstly, as Michael D. Turnbull pointed out, you had a rename request which makes it look like you are writing an autobiography, which isn't really good. Second, you have a lot of external links on there, like on to the schools website, that should either be added in as sources, or removed entirely. Last, there a flimsy unreliable and unrelated sources in the article. Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Talk to me) (Waif Me!) 14:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Basically, Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. ColinFine (talk) 01:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Adding reliable citations for Radha

Hello, I've been trying to add a new author and book page which has been quite challenging. Based on the limited information available, what do you guys suggest I change so that the pages are reviewed again and accepted? The feedback I received for the book page (Draft:Radha: Wrath of the Maeju) suggests that I add more published sources that are reliable, secondary, in-depth, and independent. But at this stage, is waiting all that I need to do so that the book has more reviews? There aren't many English-language Nepali books in the market or reviewers in English who will make the citation abundant. Please help. Phsssttt (talk) 18:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

@KylieTastic Phsssttt (talk) 18:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

@Phsssttt note that sources do not have to be in English if some exist is Nepali? See Wikipedia:Notability (books) for what we look for to show nobility of books. As the book is not even published till tomorrow this may be a case of WP:TOOSOON. Regards KylieTastic (talk) 18:15, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Phsssttt, and welcome to the Teahouse.

I wonder, what is your purpose in "adding an author and book page" for a book which is about to be published?

If your answer is in any way about telling the world about this book, then what you are trying to do is promotion, which is forbidden anywhere in Wikipedia.

Once independent, reliable sources have taken note of the book by publishing significant material about it, then it may be possible to write a Wikipedia article summarising what these independent sources say. Until then, writing an acceptable article is impossible, and attempting to do so is probably contrary to the purposes of Wikipedia ColinFine (talk) 01:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Can we get a disambiguation page for One Water?

HI One Water (Management) is a notable management approach, endorsed by the United Nations, World Health Organization, U.S. Water Alliance, and more. I have created a page for this, but would like to disambiguate it from One Water, the film. How do we support this? I do see the guidance at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disambiguation but I am not sure if I am allowed to create that disambiguation page? Thank you.LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 00:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes.

• One Water - DAB
• One Water (water management)
• One Water (documentary)

--Tagishsimon (talk) 00:43, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! What do I need to do now? Should I be creating a page? Is it right to ask here for that disambiguation page? The guidance isn't quite clear. LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 16:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@LoveElectronicLiterature: It has already been created: One Water. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:16, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Help!!

Hi, I'm a long term Wikipedia style and clarity editor, but I don't know the ropes of higher level editing. I need a mentor, that I can message from time to time. My latest problem, is somebody from the nuclear power industry is reverting my edits to an article on a scientist, to whitewash her scientific contribution to epidemiological studies documenting harm from radiation releases from Chernobyl etc.

I just don't know how to deal with edit warring. They threatened to have me banned as an editor. I don't know how to deal with that. They are obviously someone employed by the nuclear industry, who has sanitised the article I happened to come across and work on.

I intend to work on the clearcutting article, which I have deep expertise in. I'm anticipating the same kind of flack from the logging industry, so if I could find a mentor on this article, it might come in handy for later.

Usually I just do minor clarity edits, on random articles. Every once in a while though, I want to be able to get involved on important topics. So, please, help me! I don't know how to contact other editors. Maybe leave a message on my talk page? Thanks Billyshiverstick (talk) 01:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

For starters, don't accuse an administrator of being a "stooge" when they remove material you copied from Amazon RudolfRed (talk) 01:24, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@Billyshiverstick: Read WP:NPA. RudolfRed (talk) 01:26, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Please also read WP:MINOR. A minor edit is something like fixing a typo. RudolfRed (talk) 01:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Billyshiverstick you seem to have mistaken a routine reversion for copyvio, for some sort of nuclear industry conspiracy. It's not a conspiracy. It's a routine reversion because you introduced copyrighted text into the article. The solution is, not to add copyrighted text into articles. The honourable thing to do would be to apologise to the editor involved. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:32, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Billyshiverstick, and welcome to the Teahouse.

It sounds as if you have got caught up in a pattern which quite often besets new editors, especially if they are passionate about some cause (which it sounds as if you may be). They see something which they are sure is wrong (or missing, or …), and they go in and change it.

Which is fine as long as they understand and follow Wikipedia's core policies. But new editors often do not understand these policies, and make mistakes: most often in copyright, verifiability, or neutral point of view, and their edits are then quite appropriately reverted (see WP:BRD).

But when the subject is something that they care deeply about, and believe that they are correcting an important error or falsehood, they sometimes leap to the conclusion that the reversion was in bad faith, by somebody determined to hide The Truth.

This can happen, of course. But it is overwhelmingly more likely that what's going on is somebody enforcing Wikipedia's rules.

Note that Wikipedia isn't for righting great wrongs: its job is to summarise what the reliable sources say. If the sources differ, and there is no consensus, the article should say that, giving weight to each view according to its degree of support across the sources. If a view is in nearly all the sources, and an opposing view in only one source, of dubious reliability, that opposing view should get little or no mention. (I'm not saying that that description applies to the present case: I haven't looked into it at all. I'm giving an example of how it works) ColinFine (talk) 02:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

My Awards page wikipedia entry keeps on getting declined, HELP!!

My name is Inyi, and I'm new to creating entries on Wikipedia.

I'm currently working on an article page for an awards-giving body in the Philippines called the "VP Choice Awards." However, the entry keeps getting declined by reviewers with the comment: "This submission appears to read more like an advertisement."

I've been following the guidance provided by one of the reviewers (Qcne) to address this issue, yet the entry continues to be declined by other reviewers. I've added references in line with the article, rewritten the content in a neutral manner, and included references from independent media sources not affiliated or related to the VP Choice Awards, but it still gets declined.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could review my entry here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:VP_Choice_Awards and provide guidance on what needs to be fixed on the page.

Thank you so much in advance Inyiyruma (talk) 04:15, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Welcome! Thanks for taking the time to create new articles, and it's great that you took care to cite independent sources. There's still some wording that sounds more like what you'd find on a company website, like listing the various categories. Referring to the event as an "award ceremony" rather than an "award-giving body" might help put the event itself more in focus than the body in charge, and distance it from the "advertisement" look.

Also, YouTube videos are generally not recommended to use as sources, and having less material sourced from Village Pipol itself could help too. No need to "over-do it" and have every single award winner, which can be a bit overwhelming - are there key awards that the reader might be interested in, or would there be a way to summarize these tables? Good luck editing, ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 01:42, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Inyiyruma, and welcome to the Teahouse.

The question you need to ask yourself (in fact, the question you needed to ask yourself before you started this draft) is: Where have some people with no connection to the awards or their parent company, chosen to write at some length about the thing called "The VP Choice Awards" (I'm not sure if that is an event or an organisation)? Not about the nth VPC Awards; still less about who happened to win the nth VPC Awards: that is trivial information that might go in a data table once there is an encyclopedia article to add it to, but is not a core part of the article.

Without in-depth independent writing about the awards as an entity, your draft will not establish notability, and the article cannot be accepted. ColinFine (talk) 02:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Does (Date missing) mean the date is unknown?

i have seen language pages that show the extinction date as (date missing), does it mean the date is unknown? 2001:448A:400C:1F9B:5D9E:5574:1A55:7DE9 (talk) 05:00, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Probably. There are many such languages. You may find the language listed here as date unknown. Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

AFD'ing multiple articles in a single discussion

I might have come across it before, but I'm not entirely certain. However, is there a way to AfD multiple articles in a single discussion? I am looking at Muangchang United F.C., PPS.Phetchabun City F.C., Lookphorkhun United F.C., Look E San F.C.,Nonthaburi United F.C., Sing Ubon F.C., etc. Most of them fail WP:GNG. Jeraxmoira (talk) 05:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jeraxmoira: There is – see WP:MULTIAFD for the details. Tollens (talk) 13:40, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry

I didn't mean to vandalize Wikipedia again. I was actually editing for good usage. Before coming on here, someone left me 7 talk page messages, which I didn't read, inviting me to this teahouse, very helpful I know. I accidentally edited Wikipedia before I read that message and I'm sorry and apologize deeply. I mean it. Jamiemuscatoverified (talk) 06:49, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for coming here! No one knows how all of Wikipedia works in a single day, and it is always good to see new editors join in good faith and wanting to help! If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 01:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

It can be frightening to have that many messages on your talk page in a single day - being flooded by alerts and not really understanding what you've did wrong. No worries, it's best to take your time, and you can ask volunteers like me if you want to edit anything, to be sure to not do anything wrong. You can find me here or on my talk page! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 01:34, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

N.B. Querent has been indef'd. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 21:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

template map not working

Template:Map/Airports in Gujarat is showing erros.
'"`UNIQ--mapframe-00000022-QINU`"'

{{Maplink|frame=yes|zoom=5|frame-align=right|text=Airports in Gujarat<noinclude><ref name>{{Cite web |title=Gujarat {{!}} Gujarat State Aviation Infrastructure Company Limited |url=https://gujsail.gujarat.gov.in/gujarat.htm |access-date=2019-05-21 |website=gujsail.gujarat.gov.in |archive-date=2019-05-21 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190521063246/https://gujsail.gujarat.gov.in/gujarat.htm |url-status=dead }}</ref>
</noinclude>|frame-lat=22.719 |frame-long=71.224
|type=point|id=Q401700|marker=airport |marker-size=medium |title=[[Ahmedabad Airport|Ahmedabad]]
|type2=point|id2=Q511349|marker2=airport |marker-size2=medium |title2=[[Bhavnagar Airport|Bhavnagar]]
|type3=point|id3=Q619716|marker3=airport |marker-size3=medium |title3=[[Bhuj Airport|Bhuj]]
|type4=point|id4=Q1656942|marker4=airport |marker-size4=small |title4=[[Deesa Airport|Deesa]]
|type5=point|id5=1595059|marker5=airport |marker-size5=small |title5=[[Jamnagar Airport|Jamnagar]]
|type6=point|id6=Q2722850|marker6=airport |marker-size6=small |title6=[[Keshod Airport|Keshod]]
|type7=point|id7=Q48730693|marker7=airport |marker-size7=small |title7=[[Mundra Airport|Mundra]]
|type8=point|id8=Q1931349|marker8=airport |marker-size8=small |title8=[[Porbandar Airport|Porbandar]]
|type9=point|id9=Q48730693|marker9=airport |marker-size9=small |title9=[[Mundra Airport|Mundra]]
|type10=point|id10=Q42377088|marker10=airport |marker-size10=small |title10=[[Rajkot International Airport|Rajkot New]]
|type11=point|id11=Q7286282|marker11=airport |marker-size11=small |title11=[[Rajkot Airport|Rajkot]]
|type12=point|id12=Q2775871|marker12=airport |marker-size12=small |title12=[[Surat International Airport|Surat]]
|type13=point|id13=Q3274467|marker13=airport |marker-size13=small |title13=[[Vadodara Airport|Vadodara]]
}}

DSP2092 (👤, 🗨️) 07:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done problem fixed. Some wikidata didn't have coordinates. DSP2092 (👤, 🗨️) 07:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Preview warnings for unexpected parameters

When I preview an edit for ​ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Monty_Hall_problem , ​ I see

'Preview warning: Page using Template:WikiProject Mathematics with unexpected parameter "frequentlyviewed"

Preview warning: Page using Template:WikiProject Mathematics with unexpected parameter "field"'

in the WikiProjects section. ​ ​ ​ Do those warnings indicate an issue that should be fixed?

JumpDiscont (talk) 07:30, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

User:JumpDiscont, it looks like support for those template parameters was removed in 2020, but evidently they haven't all been cleaned up. You can delete the parameters from the instance of {{WikiProject Mathematics}} on Talk:Monty Hall problem if you'd like; seeing the template warning messages on edit and membership in the maintenance category Category:Pages using WikiProject Mathematics with unknown parameters (1) are the only issues this causes. Folly Mox (talk) 09:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Helping new Wikipedia volunteers

Hi,

We are a group of 7 people, and have a project to create and edit content on Wikipedia.

We know nothing about editing in Wikipedia or very very little (that's me).

Reading help pages is useful but not everyone's cup of tea, so I'm looking for other methods.

Are there any online sessions for beginners or Wikipedia for Dummies? We'll watch relevant youtube videos, but my thinking was like a cohort working live with a mentor or something like that.

Thank you Samisawtak (talk) 09:27, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Samisawtak, and welcome! :)

A lot of the 'getting started' type help content is gathered together at this page, by miraculous coincidence (!) titled "Getting started". There you'll find plenty of links to tutorials, guided learning journeys, and further help. There are probably other ways of getting started also, but that would be my go-to resource.

As you mention that there are several of you involved in this, please note that Wikipedia user accounts are for use by a single individual only, so you should all set up your own user accounts if you haven't already done so.

Happy editing! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:05, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks, lots of helpful links Samisawtak (talk) 16:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Samisawtak: Also, Wikipedia:Introduction, and also the links in the "Welcome" message I just left you on your Talk page. If you leave a message here with the userids of the other six members, I will leave them welcome messages, too (unless someone beats me to it!).Mathglot (talk) 10:10, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Many thanks Samisawtak (talk) 16:08, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Supportive suggestions for wikipedia fundraisers

I was not sure where to put this so I thought I would ask/suggest here. let me know the right place and I will bring up these supportive fundraising ideas there.

Anytime a person looks up a company name, where that company is on a list of companies with charity matching grants, they see a "Donate from this company and get a matching donation from the company" message during the fundraising period. Also There could be menu box/autocomplete textarea with "type your employers name to find out if they will match your donation". Bing Chat Copilot says, "about 22.3% of workers with a bachelor’s degree or higher worked for very large employers in 2020 ". That suggests that about 7 million employees with college degrees work for companies with some likeliness of charity matching. I'm making the weird, but likely assumption that people look up the companies they work for on wikipedia.

What is the right area at wikipedia to bring this suggestion and other suggestions for fundraising up?

Thanks! Treonsverdery (talk) 10:03, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi! @Treonsverdery I suggest you to visit https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising for more details. I have no knowledge on how fundraising works here, you may find some help in the meta fundraising page. Leoneix _(talk) 10:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Treonsverdery, people can find out of their employers will match donations to the WMF at https://www.matchinggifts.com/wikimedia_iframe Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 13:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

confusion about the picture "pale blue dot "

where are the other planet in the picture 'pale blue dot' by voyager 1

113.21.229.37 (talk) 10:18, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, this is probably best asked at the article talk page, Talk:Pale Blue Dot. 331dot (talk) 10:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

As explained in the article, you will find them at Family Portrait (Voyager). Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Does it have to be in it? Could they be out of frame? Try the reference desk (WP:RD/S) Usedtobecool ☎️ 12:09, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

All the other planets in our solar system are indeed out of frame. Space is really big – even at the scale where Earth is less than a pixel across, the image isn't nearly big enough to cover the rest of the planets. As linked above, Family Portrait, which was created by combining several images together, does cover a wide enough field to capture the rest of the planets. Tollens (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

I need review and help on a draft, how to get some ?

Hi there ! I'm totally new and wikipedia but working since a couple of month on an article about Soundpainting (a sign-language used for live-composition) and I submitted it twice, and it has been twice decline. I've changed a lot of things, added a lot of other sources, but I don't see how I can improve it more... Could anyone give me some help to make it more read like an encyclopedic article and less like an essay ? Thanks a lot !!

Here is the draft : Draft:Soundpainting

Looking forward to hear/read from you --AnnePernas (talk) 11:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@AnnePernas Wikidata shows that there are already nine other-language articles on soundpainting, including in French, German, Italian and Spanish. These won't be perfect but may give you some ideas. Currently, you have a table of ensembles which I don't think helps the draft, since they are unsourced, and as you say "This list is absolutely non-exhaustive." which is, indeed, essay-speak. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Michael D. Turnbull, it's translated from the French version according to fr:Discussion utilisateur:Binabik#Question de Anne (16 novembre 2023 à 18h54) and HTML comments within the draft itself like auto-translated by Module:CS1 translator -->, hence the translation attribution template at Draft talk:Soundpainting. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 12:56, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

AnnePernas: as far as I can understand Draft:Soundpainting, it's about a sign language used by an extemporising conductor to convey their intentions to the performers. it's unclear whether it's about a particular such language, or about any such language. Either way, it would improved by a few examples of gestures and their meanings. Maproom (talk) 09:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Revert war

FYI

 – Shungite Remsense留 13:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

There is an editor on the "Shungite" page that reverts my edits as soon as I put them up. There are now three reverts. On his last one, he wrote, "please discuss changes on the talk page before editing" - yet he has no comments on the talk page and gives no explanation as to why my edits needed to be reverted.

If you look at the "talk" page, you will see that I explained every change, and cited every source before the last revision. I am reverting it back, as he gave no input or reason for completely deleting my changes. I believe his is the original author and may feel ownership of this topic. I reverted it back - with an explanation as I is my practice. I anticipate that he will revert it again without explanation, and this becomes his fourth revision. MelroseReporter (talk) 13:04, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

This has all happened today, I am not sure why there is such a rush. It is generally not considered apropos to be asked to discuss a change, and then reestablish that change before an understanding has been reached. I would recommend actually discussing the issues with this person on the talk page before doing anything else on the page itself or beyond it. As far as I can tell, while you and the other editor disagree, they have not assumed bad faith from you, and you should return the courtesy. Assuming another person feels like they have ownership of an article is often the quickest way to acting possessively yourself.
The point of a talk page discussion is to have a discussion—there's usually no hard rules as to what order actions need to take place in, it shouldn't be taken as a slight that you're asked to discuss things on the talk page and haven't been explicitly preempted in doing so. People have different communication styles, and that's why assuming good faith is important. Remsense留 13:17, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

It's not normally a rush. Usually I make an edit and he reverts within moments. I did revert it as his reason for wiping out hours of work without explaining why. In the same fashion, he could discuss on talk page before wiping out my changes. Is there a time limit I should wait before submitting a revision? Thank you! MelroseReporter (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

MelroseReporter, don't worry about time limits, worry about assuming good faith from your fellow editor, please. There is no reason for anyone to assume bad faith or not treat each other's concerns as reasonable so far. A part of the reason Wikipedia works is your work has not been wiped out—it is in the edit history of the article and can be found and reintegrated into the article in whatever form is deemed appropriate.
As you know, a third editor has brought up some concerns with your additions, these shouldn't be disregarded just because they did not come from the original editor—since neither you nor the original editor own the article, it's just as necessary to engage with their concerns regardless of who did what in what order. Put another way—reverting again would seem to value a very narrow view of decorum over the variously stated concerns of two people, and I would consider that to be wholly inappropriate. Everyone just cares about the article's quality. Remsense留 13:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@MelroseReporter: I note you have already been blocked once for abusive editing. And yet here you are on thin ice, engaging in a revert war on Shungite and largely ignoring the suggestions & requests that you discuss edits before making them. You want to wipe out the suggestion that Shungite is antibacterial because of its heavy metal content, because you misread or misapply a paper which talks about two diffeent sorts of Shungite, one of which lacks heavy metals. You want to insist that Shungite is made of fullerines, when the same paper you rely on talks of it having only traces of fullerines.

So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to revert the article to the position before you started your revert war, before you started editing it. I'm going to INSIST that changes are discussed on the talk page before they are made. And if you persist in edit warring, I'm going to wheel you over to WP:ANI for them to deal with you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Sri Rama Michael Tamm

This is a recently accepted article. I've merged the duplicate refs and it is a bit scant on them. If someone would take a look, that'd be great. My bigger concern is the unpublished manuscript used. This isn't valid for use, correct? - UtherSRG (talk) 15:22, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Ref has now been removed as not legitimate. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Category formatting?

Hi all, I recently created the article Heart Play: Unfinished Dialogue, and attempted to add categories, but the category formatting looks wrong. I've skimmed through WP:Categorization, but can't figure it out. Please help! Thanks! Of the universe (talk) 15:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Of the universe, including the colon before the 'Category:' prefix means it is just a link to the category. I have fixed it by removing that colon, [[:Category:John Lennon albums]] -> [[Category:John Lennon albums]]. You can do the same with templates, interlanguage links, etc. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 15:41, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Of the universe (talk) 15:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Welcome from WillKomen

User:WillKomen.Thanks for th very friandly welcome! excited to start using Wikpedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by MouseArtichoke! (talk • contribs) 17:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Welcome, MouseArtichoke! I believe the welcome you received is automatically generated as part of The Wikipedia Adventure. If you have questions on editing Wikipedia articles, please feel free to drop by again. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 21:16, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Microsoft version of Unix GREP ("Global Regular Expression Processer")

GREP searches inside files for lines containing a particular search string in DOC, XLS and Outlook files.

GREP would be useful when you have a lot of files, but do not remember the filename. ___MountVic127 (talk) 23:05, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@MountVic127: Welcome to the Teahouse! This is a place for help with using and editing Wikipedia, not for all questions. I've found that using the search functionality in Windows' File Explorer will search inside files. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 23:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Incidentally, "grep" does not stand for "Global Regular Expression Processer" (or even "Processor"). See our article for the actual derivation. CodeTalker (talk) 02:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@GoingBatty I found File Explorer, thanks, but how does one actually use it?

I wish to find the string "Nepal" in *.docx files. This is easy in a command line program like Unix while windows had mountains of buttons and boxes to choose between. File Explorer should have a command line box that converts Grep-like commands into Windows speak. ----MountVic127 (talk) 03:12, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@MountVic127: How you use the search feature in File Explorer depends on what version of Windows you're running. You could use a quick Google search to find many web pages on this topic. You could send your suggestions on how to improve File Explorer to Microsoft. GoingBatty (talk) 04:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Introduction and progress

I'd like to use the space here to thanks for the input by users to the contributions I started. I'm working on tasks simultaneously but mainly tips for speed the interface can be cumbersome even to cp. Finally, welcome to new antecedents from me. I'm eager for it to show in a feed talk subst:welccome... Nesshunter (talk) 00:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Nesshunter, welcome! It is not clear what you are trying to ask here, could you rephrase your question? Remsense留 06:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

How can productivity be improved? Nesshunter (talk) 10:58, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I think I understand! You may want to consider looking at the WP:keyboard shortcuts that can be used in the editor, as well as the various gadgets and tools that can automate repetitive tasks. If you're solely talking about the performance of the visual editor, I would recommend trying out the older 2010 editor instead, which can be switched to on your preferences page. If you need more help, let me know! Remsense留 11:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello

I've done edits on my great grandfather wiki page but it says that it's still pending, it's already been more than a week and it has not been approved yet, how long does it take usually and is there a way to make the process faster KarimQ (talk) 01:05, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@KarimQ: what is the name of the page? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 01:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF_%D8%B3%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%85_%D8%B3%D8%B9%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%86_%D9%83%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%87 KarimQ (talk) 01:22, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

KarimQ, the Teahouse provides assistance about editing the English Wikipedia. You will have to ask at the Arabic Wikipedia for assistance with this matter. Each Wikipedia language version is an entirely separate project. Cullen328 (talk) 01:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello! The edits you made were on Arabic Wikipedia, which is a separate entity from English Wikipedia. Most volunteers don't work in both, and you'll have more chances to have answers on the Arabic Wikipedia's equivalent of the Teahouse, although you might get a knowledgeable volunteer here to answer you! ChaotıċEnby(t · c) 01:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Correct position of new entry to a list of numbers

I'm updating some information on the list of tallest of people. When multiple people share the exact same height, what order should they be in/which position should my new entry take? Blackdogcity (talk) 04:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello Blackdogcity, that will be determined at the article level. Are there any ties currently on the page? And have you tried the article's talk page? Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 04:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply! There are multiple ties on the list and I haven't tried the talk page yet (I incorrectly assumed there was a globally consistent style guide answer to this question). I can't find anything in the articles talk archives asking about ordering so I suppose I'll ask there.

Is it better to wait for a response before moving the entry at all or to move it now to show the correct data and modify the ties into the specific order if/when I get an answer? Blackdogcity (talk) 04:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Blackdogcity: In my opinion, the important thing is to get the correct information cited to a reliable source. The Wikipedia:Verifiability policy outweighs style guides. It will be fairly easy to cut & paste the table's rows where they need to go. Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 05:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Blackdogcity: Hi there! Now that you've asked at Talk:List of tallest people, I suggest waiting a few days before boldly changing the order. However, you could add your suggestion for ordering ties on the talk page. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 05:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Question

Is there a way to see every search term that redirects to a certain article? Bzik2324 (talk) 05:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Bzik2324: There's a 'What links here' link on each article; not sure where it's hidden in the new user interface; under Tools, maybe. For an article such as Hamer Stansfeld it takes you to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Hamer+Stansfeld&namespace= ... if you tick both the 'hide transclusions' and 'hide links' tickboxes, and hit 'go' you'll be left with the redirects to the page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Hamer+Stansfeld&namespace=&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1 --Tagishsimon (talk) 06:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

misfit display in Android

Viewing for the first time the page Tea House, I am astonished that the first section title

(== What to do when multiple reliable sources publish misleading information? ...)

is displayed in about 2 dozens of lines, each only about 2 letter short. Like:

W

ha

tt

od

ow

...

Above: archive numbers list ends with "... 1207, 1208"

Underneath: following section title lines fit the display width

I use a Samsung Galaxy A40 Smartphone (from ca. 2019) with updated Android. 5.9" display (upright = portrait mode).

Browser Chrome, updated.

Helium4 (talk) 10:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

User:Helium4, yep, the mobile skin will compress section headers, deeply indented comments, and table columns down to complete illegibility before it will increase the width of the view window and force us to do a sidey swipe. It sure would be nice if elements could be balanced better to avoid that, rather than archive boxes having a fixed width and demanding to share horizontal space rather than squishing themselves a lil bit or just clearing the space to their left. I believe this is also one reason that side bars and navboxes don't display on mobile.

You might be able to leave feedback for the team who is able to make changes to the mobile web interface at mw:Talk:Reading/Web? I just kinda shrug like "welp never reading that I guess". Folly Mox (talk) 14:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Contributions not publishing

I have uploaded 20 books with details but I did not access publicly. Can you please help me to show my contributions for publicly. خالد محمود خان (talk) 10:34, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@خالد محمود خان: While I am not certain what you mean, you may be looking for your contributions at Wikimedia Commons, which include your image uploads. Tollens (talk) 10:38, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

At Commons, all 20 images (of book covers?) have been nominated for deletion. David notMD (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Article creation of my company

Hello @Teahouse, I have a question regarding creating an article. I recently drafted an article for my company, but it got deleted within 24 hours. I really need the article for my company. How can I go about recovering or preserving it? RonakJK (talk) 11:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

RonakJK Hello. I see you declared a COI, as you work for the company, the Terms of Use require you to make the stricter paid editing disclosure.

Your draft was highly promotional and will not be restored. Wikipedia is not a place for companies to tell the world about themselves. Wikipedia articles are typically written by independent editors wholly unconnected with the topic, and summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage choose to say about (in this case) a company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Not every company merits an article.

You should have submitted a draft via the Article Wizard, not gamed the system to create it yourself, the system exists for a reason.

Please read WP:BOSS and have your superiors read it too. 331dot (talk) 11:48, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

not to mention that every system-gaming newcomer task to "improve grammar" made the respective article somewhat to considerably worse. i've had to revert them all. Remsense留 12:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Reporting an issue on WP:ANI

I just opened on a new topic on WP:ANI regarding that editor who restored his additions of Tamil scripts into several Malaysa-related articles. Not only there is no consensus on such edits, but Tamil has no official or legal status in Malaysia and adding that language into articles about local governments and infrastructure is just dubious at best.

Is there anything else I could do within my rights about that editor? hundenvonPG (talk) 12:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

HundenvonPenang, if you've reported it to ANI, that is sufficient. The issue seems clear-cut enough, and generally you shouldn't have to do anything that resembles forum shopping to get your issue addressed. cheers! Remsense留 12:55, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Noted with thanks Remsense hundenvonPG (talk) 12:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Bob Fowke application for new article

I am working on an article for entry on Wikipedia on Bob Fowke who is a living person. In the 1970s/early 80s he was a successful, and well known in the science fantasy world, science fantasy artist. He is listed in the ISFDB, but not in Wikipedia itself. He worked in mainly oils and gouace, producing his illustrations as paintings, not electronically, and essentially stopped producing his work when computer-assisted or generated illustration came in. This means that the internet only features limited references to his work. However, he remains known, arguably well-known in the science fantasy world, who do refer to him online. He subsequently became a writer, primarily of children's information books, which I have listed There are two aspects to my problem with getting an entry accepted, and although the first appears to be the major one, I think it might be solved if I can sort the second.

1) Notability - I accept this was fair criticism on my first draft, I had not put in enough detail. I have now added more information. 2) Finding referencing sources online, and not using blogs. I accept that taken overall blogs are not indicative of facts, but it does appear there is not an overall ban on referring to them, I want to be able to use them illustratively, of continuing recognition and referral to Fowke in the SF world.

My draft is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PinneyFowke/sandbox

I really would welcome any help and assistance, as I don't seem to be making any real progress.

Thanks

Pinney PinneyFowke (talk) 14:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

PinneyFowke your main goal is to prove that Fowke is notable; essentially, there needs to be 2-3 sources that are independent, reliable, and in-depth about him. Blogs are not reliable and do not count; in fact, they are usually unreliable and should not be cited at all. What are the three sources that best follow the above criteria? Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 15:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@PinneyFowke: you have also asked this at the AfC HD. Please don't ask in several places, as answering the same query multiple times wastes volunteer effort. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:15, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Really sorry, didn't mean to cause problems, it's because I'm a 'learner', the page I was viewing had suggestions about where to go for assistance with links, so I was trying them out in order to find out which were the right, and helpful ones to go to. PinneyFowke (talk) 15:36, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Writing Support to Publish a Company Page.

Hello, I am a new editor trying to gain some insight and support on how I can improve my article to be an acceptable standard for Wikipedia. Is there anyone that is willing to help me improve this article so that I can get it approved by the Wiki-Admins. I am new to this and I need help. Please Steph at Unipet (talk) 15:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

To be blunt, I recommend that you give up. Nothing has shown that Unipet is notable. Your volunteer time is better spent elsewhere, such as copyediting, and your work time is better spent doing whatever your job is. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 15:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Steph at Unipet There are many millions of companies, so Wikipedia has to limit those it covers to the ones that are wikinotable (see link for details). This means we need coverage in sources that meet these criteria. I don't see such sources in your draft and I'm afraid your company just looks WP:RUNOFTHEMILL. Incidentally, it is not administrators who review articles but editors who are experienced in doing so: the decline notice gives their reasons. You may like to read this essay and this one. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

None of the refs support the notability of the company. At best, it is WP:TOOSOON for this modest-sized company. I recommend either adandoning the draft, in which case it will be deleted in six months, or tagging it for deletion now. David notMD (talk) 16:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Steph at Unipet: See also the essay at WP:BOSS. GoingBatty (talk) 17:10, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Generating a list based on a data-field in the info box of certain pages

I want to be able to view a list page of video games using the Unreal Engine 5 game engine. This data, when available, is listed in the video game Infobox template under "engine". (Example: Tekken 8.) I'm not sure how to go about this or if it is allowed. It seems like the wikimedia api can be used to create the list. But I'm not sure if this is the standard way to do it. It would be a page called "List of video games using the unreal engine 5 game engine" 24.38.201.80 (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

You could get this sort of list based on wikidata, rather than WP infoboxes - https://w.wiki/8Szr - should that help. WD may not have the same coverage as WP. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Are you aware of any efforts to combine wikidata and and wikipedia infobox data? And the question of creating a static list like eg. Category:PlayStation 5 games? Is there another page better suited for this discussion like eg. Wikipedia:Help_desk? Wikidata indeed does seem not to have the same coverage. At least, 81 entries seems too few to me. 24.38.201.80 (talk) 19:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Many infoboxes have the capability to import data from wikidata; see, for instance, Category:Infobox templates using Wikidata. But the WP community, in its Luddite wisdom, has afaik rejected the idea of allowing dynamic tables based on wikidata in WP articlespace. Meanwhile whether WP or WD has better coverage of the use of UE5 in games remains to be determined. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:25, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Dates for single releases

Hi, if I’m adding a singles list to an album’s infobox, and there is a single which was released in multiple countries on different dates, which date should I list? The earliest release date, the release date in the artist’s native country, or something else? In some cases there’s so many different release dates that to list them all would be impractical.

The example that pushed me to ask this in particular is Joni Mitchell's "Coyote". In the UK it was released in March of 1977, in Canada (her home country) it was released in June of that year, and in the US it was released earliest, in January. So which date should be used? Thanks! Elephantranges (talk) 19:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

The infobox seems to be wanting just the earliest release date. " Generally, later releases or in secondary markets, reissues, on compilations, etc., should only be included in the body of the article." at Template:Infobox song#released. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:50, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Elephantranges (talk) 20:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Dovevo fare una pagina?

Come trovare un posto per fare un articolo? Snipercobra (talk) 20:38, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Snipercobra: The first thing to decide is whether you want to write in Italian at the Italian Wikipedia or in English here at the English Wikipedia. Then consider that creating a new Wikipedia article can be quite challenging, especially if you do not have a lot of experience editing existing Wikipedia articles. To learn how to edit, I suggest you start at Help:Introduction. I suggest spending a significant amount of time editing existing articles to hone your skills. Once you're ready to create an article, you would gather multiple independent reliable sources that have provided significant coverage of the subject, and determine whether it meets Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, called "notability". If so, you could follow the instructions at Help:Your first article and summarize what the sources have published, and be prepared for a process that may include waiting for review, declines, and rewrites before an article is accepted. Hope this helps, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 20:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

etiquette regarding banned users

Hi, I'm doing some cleanup after an editor who was recently banned permanently for a pattern of POV-pushing. I want to explain on the relevant talk pages why I am removing such large chunks from articles beyond the short explanations I put in my edit descriptions. I've noticed, however, that other editors tend to be very circumspect in similar circumstances. Are there guidelines about this? While I am relieved this editor is off the encyclopedia, I certainly take no pleasure in the fact and wish it had not come to that.

Thanks for any advice you might offer.

Cheers, Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 21:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

While the impulse for transparency is noble, there is also the consideration of prioritizing displaying the most relevant information to the most likely audience for it. I wouldn't worry too much about disclosing to every talk page. People who care to know can usually find out what has happened trivially, so a mention of a link to the relevant discussion or keywords in the edit summary if often more than sufficient. Remsense留 21:54, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. I won't mention it unless I need to in order to justify my edits in response to a challenge. People who have been actively following the articles know what is going on. My concern is just that those who haven't would be understandably alarmed to see multiple paragraphs of sourced material completely deleted. But I'm fine just leaving it to be addressed later, just in the event the issue should arise.

Cheers, Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

best of luck, cheers! Remsense留 23:07, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

image for a BLP

I have asked this before, but i do not remember the exact requirements for finding a fair use and uploading a non-free content image for a BLP. I know the rules for book covers and film posters, but BLP's are a tad extra sensitive and I'd like some help please. I am looking in this case specifically for Dan Senor, but don't do it for me. teach me to fish, and i will be less likely to come back again to this teahouse for this. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

clear bullet point steps would be most helpful. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: The policy is at WP:NFCCP. For a BLP, you immediately fail 1. No free equivalent. Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose. and so there's no possibility of a fair use image ... the possibility must exist that a living person could be photographed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

right, but i just forget how we search for those images when it comes to a BLP. I get where to go for a brand, company, logo, book, film, etc. but not for a BLP. Like sure i can google stuff, but i want to know the best way to go about this. in a bullet list ideally for me to save in my "tool box" of my user page. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:45, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: So the point is, you do not get to search for a fair use image, b/c a fair use image cannot be used. You can search for a public domain or CC0 image; with google that seems to be, in image search, the 'usage rights' dropdown and 'Creative Commons licenses' selected; or else looking carefully at all result for instances where you can determine manually that the image is public domain. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:54, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

i keep screwing up the wording i use, thank you for correcting me. So same question, but replace it with "public domain or CC0" image. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

i have a dell computer and use microsoft for search if that helps you to help me, or anytone else on here. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Presuming you're using Bing, its image search seems to have a filter option on its results, beneath which is a licence option, within which the option "free to share and use commercially" is probably the best bet. Even then, you would still have to ascertain exactly what the licence on the image was, and choose the appropriate licence tag when uploading it to, presumably, commons. I can't pretend it is easy because there are very many licence variants. The Commons Licencing page has a useful table of the most common licences, which might help. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

i just tried this, that seemed to be helpful. here is an image of Dan Senor found at this link.

the image is listed on some strange wiki-type site, and says it is "Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike." Iljhgtn (talk) 00:16, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Iljhgtn. I have been an editor for over 14 years and an administrator for over six years. I am not personally aware of a single case where a non-free image is used in a biography of a living person. The relevant policy language can be found at Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images, which says Non-free images that reasonably could be replaced by free content images are not suitable for Wikipedia. Later, the policy mentions Pictures of people still alive as an excluded type of image. There is a narrow carve out for elderly people whose appearance has changed significantly, but I am not aware of that happening in practice. Senor is just 52 and was most prominent 10 to 15 years ago, that does not seem to apply, since it is possible that someone (you perhaps) could take a photo of Senor or ask him to freely license a selfie. The classic case is Kim Jong Un who came to power in 2012. Many editors argued vigorously for years, without success, that it was not possible to obtain a free image of Kim, but then he met with Donald Trump in 2018 and instantly, there were many public domain photos taken by White House photographers. Cullen328 (talk) 00:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

that is a good story. thank you. i am just trying to upload an image for dan senor, i did not want it to be an ordeal, but was just thinking of the best and correct way to do it and learn from it for future cases when i see a blp without an image. i used the wrong language maybe in asking for waht i am trying to accomplish. Iljhgtn (talk) 00:18, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Iljhgtn, and welcome to the Teahouse. Thank you for wanting to help improve Wikipedia. Unfortunately, the fact is that many BLPs have no photos because nobody's managed to find a free one ColinFine (talk) 00:25, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

ok, well i think i may have found one for Dan Senor, so if this works and i did my due diligence and followed the instructions correctly, then i could apply this in other cases too. if you could look at what i found here and let me know if that is usable on his page in the infobox. Iljhgtn (talk) 00:27, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: No, that won't work. It says it is a non-commercial license. For Wikipedia, it must be licensed in a way that allows reuse for any purpose. RudolfRed (talk) 00:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

ok. well then looks like nothing might exist then. Iljhgtn (talk) 00:40, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Iljhgtn, that is casually labeled "White House photo". If you can find the original and verify that it was taken on the job by an employee of the US government, then it is in the public domain and OK to use. We can't trust that wiki. Cullen328 (talk) 00:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: You could crop his image from this: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6644075 or this: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6664353 --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok so i cropped it, but then went to the file upload wizard and i tried to upload as non-free content, but none of the options seemed appropriate to me. is this free content actually? Iljhgtn (talk) 01:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: yes, this is free; public domain. Works of the US federal goverment are PD. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Iljhgtn, that image isn't "non-free". As a work of a US government photographer, it is in the public domain, which is the opposite of non-free. Cullen328 (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

understood now. i thought non-free was like if i take the picture, but then that really would limit the number of non-free pictures hahaha. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

or free i meant to say................. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Iljhgtn, if you take a photo, it is non-free at that moment. If you choose to freely license it for re-use, then it is no longer non-free. Cullen328 (talk) 01:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

ok i did it. can someone please check my work to ensure that i did not mess it up. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Dan Senor Iljhgtn (talk) 01:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: It's all good. I changed the licence on the commons image to PD-USGov, b/c that's the appropriate one; it's not a cc-by-sa-4.0, but, easy mistake to make :) --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

would that have been a mistake that got the image deleted? or would someone else normally just change that if they noticed the error? Iljhgtn (talk) 01:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn: 99 times out of 100 it would just have been changed; 1 in 100 times someone might send it for deletion, but even then it's most likely to have been picked up by someone who understood what was going on; vanishingly unlikely to lead to a deletion. Maybe would get a note of advice on your talk page. It's not uncommon for images to be loaded with a cc-by-sa-4.0 and to have that modified to a more appropriate licence later. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:55, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect category

Hi, I noticed that Paradecolya inexspectata was in Category:Endemic flora of Réunion, but it's actually an insect. I decided to be bold and remove it, but I was wondering if I should have added it to some other category. 65.128.48.151 (talk) 00:17, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Good catch, 48.151, thank you. You're under no obligation to add it to another category, but Category:Endemic fauna of Réunion was probably where it was meant to be; I've added that. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:39, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia editing dispute

I vaguly remember something about an editing dispute regarding some specification of (I think it was) a wristwatch with regard to the reliability of the secondary source and that people went great lengths to have this corrected on Wikipedia because editors kept reverting it. Does anyone know what this refers to? PhotographyEdits (talk) 00:35, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, PhotographyEdits. You are probably referring to a discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 240, spefically number 10 - The Watch Quote. Cullen328 (talk) 03:58, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

"says who"

I think that I have seen an annotation in an Article next to an unsupported claim that is something like [says who]. Have I remembered correctly. How do I put it into an Article> BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, BlueWren0123. I think that you are looking for Template:According to whom. Cullen328 (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes that is it.Thank you BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Is there a list of these assorted Templates somewhere? BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:35, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@BlueWren0123, I'm guessing this? Category:Inline citation and verifiability dispute templates. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 01:42, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:44, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Help category new article

Hi, I made a big blunder by creating a page Telugu Desam Party breakaway groups instead of creating a category that I was going to. Please help resolve this. 456legend (talk) 05:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey there. If you do not want that page you've created, you can request a deletion request under the G7 criteria. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 05:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Yea thank you. I just did that. 456legend (talk) 06:09, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 08:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I Need Your Help for my Issue

Article:Jishnu Raghavan was tagged for Speedy deletion so please help me to rectify that. So only I had created with Page:Jishnu (Malayalam actor) but why do you again moved to page:Jishnu Raghavan I think that's why the another user tagged for G5. So please help me. This article should not get deleted Jeevan shree (talk) 06:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done per https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jishnu_Raghavan&diff=prev&oldid=1189341442 Leoneix _(talk) 07:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Ideenschmied & Erfinder

Ich möchte von Beginn an Berichten, wie der Ideenschmied & Erfinder, entstanden ist, und warum. Darf ich das tun ?

Herzliche Grüße und eine besinnliche Weihnachtszeit. Ideenschmied & Erfinder (talk) 07:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Ideenschmied & Erfinder. This is the English Wikipedia. Please ask at the German Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 07:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy holiday season yourself, Ideenschmied & Erfinder. If you can find reliable material about some subject, material that's published and disinterested, you are free to write a draft about it in English for English-language Wikipedia. If you want to do it in German, you'd better ask at German-language Wikipedia. (Each Wikipedia is independent of the others.) But since you, with this username, have so far made a total of one edit (above) to this Wikipedia and none to any other, you'd be wise to practise making constructive additions to existing articles before embarking on a new article. -- Hoary (talk) 08:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

(translating Cullen328's message into German, for OP's ease of reading)

Hallo, Ideenschmied & Erfinder. Dies ist die englische Wikipedia. Bitte fragen Sie bei der

deutschen Wikipedia nach. ContributeToTheWiki (talk • contribs) 13:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

2023 Betelgeuse occultation

As you may know the star Betelgeuse will be occulted in a rare event on December 12 after 01:00 UTC. It has been covered in the star article and also 319 Leona. Can we also have a separate article for it? Aminabzz (talk) 09:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

The visual dimming of Betelgeuse because the asteroid will pass between the star and earth is well-covered in both the star and asteroid articles. Personally, I see no merit in the creation of a separate article for this brief, one-time event. David notMD (talk) 09:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Captcha

Whenever I want to publish my edits, I have to do a captcha, does this stop when I'm verified?

Thank you

Cyprus76 Cyprus76 (talk) 14:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Cyprus76 non-autoconfirmed users have to complete a captcha when introducing a new external link to an article. So yes, this will go away once your account is 4 days and 10 edits old. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 14:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Cyprus76 (talk) 14:28, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Advice on better sources please

I've had a non-contentious AfC rejected several times now on the basis that the references are not reliable enough. I also note when reading the internal help pages that some of Britain's National Newspapers are not considered reliable sources. The organisation in question is a 50-year-old trade organisation. Admittedly it does not have huge membership because it works in the niche field of equestrian sport, but nobody questions its existence except article reviewers here! I use five references in my article. One is a national directory of photographers. One is the British trade body for Sports Journalists, the SJA. Another is a World-famous magazine which has been featured in several films. I realise that these are not the New York Times (but some would question its impartiality on many issues) but the organisation is not the subject of lots of news articles. It's a professional organisation. Not "notable" in the sense of it being exciting, but definitely still worthy of note. Arguable more than some of the random articles which do get approved here e.g. computer games which don't yet exist. On a separate note my copy was deleted because it was similar to the contents of the About page on the organisation's website, which I co-wrote! How does one licence one's own work? Indie (talk) 14:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)