Talk:Idi Amin

King of Scotland

I'm surprised no one has added that some of his "erratic" behavior was actually a tongue in cheek criticism of colonialism. He was "King of Scots" like a European could be "King of Ugandans" etc. It's sort of funny that when he did it it is considered absurd, but when Europeans claimed the same absurdities ... no one batted an eyelid, or called it "erratic." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.232.41 (talk) 03:49, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Lord of fishes and beasts.

The claims that Idi Amin called himself "Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea" is highly suspect. This is the way the litterature about Amin, and almost all references put it:

"His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Dr Idi Amin Dada VC, DSO, MC, CBE"

Someone creative added beasts and fishes, and now it has caught on, especially being used in blogs (and recently in movie reviews of "Last King of Scotland"), but not in any serious publications about Amin. I believe that the article by Alistair Boddy-Evans, which is being used a reference here, is perhaps not the originator of this modified version of Amin's titles, but at least resonsible for spreading the error. The article says "Popular history recalls Amin's declared title to be...", and that vague, weasel worded statement is what we are using as a reference that Amin called himself lord of beasts and fishes. I've also removed Sectarian violence as it does not adequately describe the situation durring Amin's rule.

Please find the beasts and fishes in a reliable source, before you revert my edit. Someones blog, a film review, a discussion forum or equivalent does not count as reliable, and when something is disputed, a more substantial source than about.com is required. --Ezeu 22:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

On this issue, see also this article in The Monitor.--Ezeu (talk) 10:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

"He sat in the covered stand, a figure as inflated as his official title: President For Life Field Marshal Al Hadj Dr Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea, Last King of Scotland, Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular." WHO ELSE WAS OUT TO GET AMIN? By Giles Foden. 1189 words 21 September 1996 The Guardian 129.100.113.106 (talk) 15:27, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The Last King of Scotland is a work of fiction, so I am reverting your edit. --Ezeu (talk) 16:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

GA on hold

I have reviewed this article according to the GA criteria and have put the article on hold until the following issues are fixed.

1. Inline citations go directly after the punctuation; go through the article and fix all of the occurrences. This includes mid-1920s [1] -> mid-1920s[1] and "VC[4], DSO, MC, CBE[5]."[2]." -> VC,[4] DSO, MC, CBE[5]."[2]
2. "was an Army Officer" I don't think that officer needs to be capitalized.
3. "extrajudicial killings especially against individuals from the Acholi and Lango ethnic groups" Remove "especially"; the sentence will flow a little better.
4. Expand the lead more to better summarize the rest of the article. Look to WP:LEAD for further explanation.
5. In the third paragraph of the "Colonial British army" section, use his last name at the beginning of the sentences a couple of times instead of just "he". This will add more variety to the paragraph.
6. During his time in the army, the 193 cm (6'4") physically imposing Idi Amin; "physically imposing" should probably be removed. Also, this sentence shouldn't stand alone as it is a single sentence. Either expand on it or incorporate it into another paragraph.
7. "The Nubians in question had been resident in Uganda since the early 20th century, having been brought from Sudan to serve the colonial army." Remove "in question" and change resident -> residents.
8. "In an internal memo, the British Foreign Office described him as "A splendid type" -> him as "a splendid"
9. "On February 2, 1971" Wikilink full dates.
10. Add an inline citation for "SRB headquarters at Nakasero became the scene of torture and executions over the next several years."
11. "In August 1972, Idi Amin declared what he called "Economic war". Change to "what he called an "economic war".
12. "nationalised 85 British owned businesses." "British-owned".
13. "Melady described Amin's regime as racist, erratic, brutal, inept, bellicose, irrational, ridiculous, militaristic and above all xenophobic." Add quotation mark before "as".
14. "After Amin's death in August 2003, David Owen said that while he was the British Foreign Secretary (1977–1979), he had suggested that Amin be assassinated, but the proposal was seen as outrageous, and rejected." Again, don't let the single sentence stand alone. Also, consider moving it to his death section.
15. Image:Cover - Rise & Fall of Idi Amin.jpg needs a fair use rationale.
16. "He fled first to Libya, where sources are divided on whether he remained until December 1979 or early 1980, before finding final asylum in Saudi Arabia." Add the sources' inline citations at the end of this sentence.
17. "A polygamist, Idi Amin married at least five wives, three of whom he divorced." Add a wikilink for polygamist.
18. In the "Wives" section, wikilink the full dates.
19. "The following year he married Nora. In 1972 he announced his marriage to Nalongo Madina." Combine the two sentences. Also combine "Kay died on August 13, 1974. Kay died on August 13, 1974. She is suspected to have died as her lover Doctor Mbalu Mukasa (who himself committed suicide) attempted a surgical abortion.".
20. "In early 2007, the award winning film" "award-winning"
21. Covert the bullets to prose in "Associates".
22. "Idi Amin died in Saudi Arabia on August 16, 2003, and was buried in Ruwais cemetery in Jeddah." Move this up into the paragraph above it.
23. In the "Dramatizations" section, fix the link for "The Last King of Scotland (film)" to [[The Last King of Scotland (film)|The Last King of Scotland]].
24. "Idi Amin: Monster in Disguise (1997), television documentary directed by Greg Baker.[10]" Fix the link for this to be better formatted as an inline citation.

Altogether, the article was very interesting and was well-written. Please address the above issues within seven days and I will pass the article. If you have any questions or when you are done, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 00:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Nehrams2020. I have edited the article in accordance with your suggestions, point for point. I reckon the lead could be better; I've edited it to the best of my ability, but I ain't no Soyinka. I've removed a sentence here and there, mostly because I cannot find references to support them. Please take a look at it again, and let us know what there is to fix. --Ezeu 22:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Just a few more things

1. For the lead, just go through most of the sections (that currently aren't covered in the intro) and add a line or two in summary of the section. Three paragraphs should be sufficient for the length of the article, but they just need to be expanded a little more to better summarize the article. Here are a few examples:

• Amin had several wives and over thirty children throughout his lifetime.
• Based on the events surrounding his life, there has been portrayals of the dictator in a variety of films and documentaries including the recent 2006 film The Last King of Scotland.
• After entering into a coma, Amin died on August 16, 2003 in Saudi Arabia.

1. "Kay died on August 13, 1974, suspected to have died as her lover Doctor Mbalu Mukasa (who himself committed suicide) attempted a surgical abortion." Reword to "Kay died on August 13, 1974 reportedly from an attempted surgical abortion performed by her lover Doctor Mbalu Mukasa (who himself committed suicide)."
2. "Among Amin's closest associates were Bob Astles, a British-born confidant of Amin, was considered by many to be a malign influence on Amin, and by others as a moderating presence.[50], and Isaac Malyamungu, one of the most feared officers in Amin's army." Reword to "Among Amin's closest associates included Bob Astles, a British-born confidant of Amin who was considered by many to be a malign influence on Amin, and by others as a moderating presence.[50] Isaac Malyamungu was also an instrumental affiliate and one of the most feared officers in Amin's army." or something to that effect.

The second and third points should be very easy to fix, and the lead shouldn't take too much longer to fix. If you're still having trouble with it, just come up with something and I'll help you to reword it if necessary. Good job on fixing the other points so quickly. Again, let me know on my talk page when you are done or if you have any questions. --Nehrams2020 22:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Will deal with. --Ezeu 23:52, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Dealt with. --Ezeu 22:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

GA passed

I have passed this article according to the GA criteria. I fixed a minor italics issue in the intro and combined the last two paragraphs before passing. Other than that, the article looks great. Make sure the article maintains its high quality by ensuring that all new information is properly cited. If you have the time, please consider reviewing an article or two at GAC to help with the current drive to remove the backlog. Good work on addressing the above issues, and I hope you continue to improve the quality of articles on Wikipedia! --Nehrams2020 22:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Erratic behavior

In this section the following statement: "In 1977, Time magazine called him a "killer and clown, big-hearted buffoon and strutting martinet".[42]" is not found in the article cited. Murderbike 21:16, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I've put the reference back. This is the Time article referred to. --Ezeu 19:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Use of "Dictator" in Wikipedia

Please see here for debate, thanks. Tazmaniacs 15:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

a rather macabre question

The line, "Bodies were dumped into the River Nile, on at least one occasion in quantities sufficient to clog the Owen Falls Hydro-Electric Dam in Jinja.[31]" raises a question in my mind. Since, as shown by this satellite image, the dam is about 3km from the mouth of the river, I get the mental image of assassins crowding a rather short stretch of river bank tossing in corpses. Isn't it much more likely that the bodies were thrown in Lake Victoria and then drifted into the river, and that the AP writer was ignorant/confused? - BanyanTree 05:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I have no source, but it is often said in Uganda (and I have read it a few times) that detainees were thrown off the bridges att Jinja and Karuma, and that they were eaten by crocodiles. This Amnesty article says that someone said that "security personnel under Idi Amin used to throw bound detainees arrested in Gulu off the road bridge into the Nile at Karuma". But the one that bodies clogged the Owen Falls Dam seems like another Amin myth. --Ezeu (talk) 21:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Amnesty article doesn't exist anymore. --105.237.38.155 (talk) 15:35, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

US Ambassador Moynihan: Amin a "racist murderer"

I suggest this incident deserves mention in the International relations section, but would like someone who's been active on this page to work it in. Also, how long did Amin stay in Libya before going to Saudi Arabia? A few months (version mentioned in a previous section) or ten years (about.com)? We should specify, even if only to debunk false information elsewhere, I think. Andyvphil (talk) 21:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

"Field Marshal" in lead

"Field Marshal" is mentioned elsewhere where more appropriate. He is not commonly known or referred to as "Field Marshal Idi Amin Dada", hence it is not befitting (especially given that he himself bestored the title upon himself - as well as a plethora of other titles), to refer to him as such in the lead. --Ezeu 17:00, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Correct name?

I've wondered about this for awhile and haven't seen a discussion: Is "Amin" actually his surname? Or should he be listed in an index under "Idi"? He was Moslem (if not Arabic) and naming conventions are different, and I note that he didn't carry the names (surnames?) of either of his parents. But I don't know whether his name was westernized, or followed a particular east African style, or what. Anybody? --Michael K. Smith (talk) 16:22, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, it's "Muslim," not "Moslem."PacificBoy 22:57, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

origin of 3rd name "Dada" ?

In the first paragraph of the early life and career section, it is mentioned that Amin's father changed his name to Amin Dada. Could this be the origin of Idi Amin's Dada surname instead of the incident described in the next paragraph?Wikimedes (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Some possible problems

Just so everyone knows this, I pretty much hate Amin (based on the atrocities I know he commited) , as does practically everyone, but some things shouldnt be put into this article without justification. I know of the rumour that Amin was a cannibal, I also know that this wasnt reported until Amin upset Britain and the United states, and Im not sure if there is actually any evidence for it, I at least DO know that wikipeidia is not about truth but veriability and the satement:

'Amin was a proven cannibal[citation needed]. He was known to cut off the breasts of women and consume them raw with various sauces and condiments such as ketchup[citation needed]. In his office, he would even pick out the pieces of human flesh from his teeth using a pen as he worked[citation needed]. In some parts of Uganda, some of Idi Amin's followers copied this act of cannibalism, especially at times when food was hard to come by. Some of the unsubstantiated rumours, such as the mutilation of one of his wives, were spread and popularised by the 1980 film Rise and Fall of Idi Amin.[44]'

I completly unsourced, and even more suspect because it specifically includes the word proven without the proof... The writing after the 'arguemnt' for Amin being a cannibal seems to completly contradict this, and the source dosent work without signing up to some kind of membership on some webstie, and therefore I dont know whether it is intended to source the point saying he is a canibal or the point showing it is unsubstatntiated. I think the fact that the man killed 300,000 people is enough to dislike him without him additionally eating them.

Also it says here 'unsubstantiated rumours, such as the mutilation of one of his wives', I assume this refers to Kay, and at the bottom of the article it says that kay was found mutilated (dismembered), and I think it is sourced and is proven that she was dismembered, so I dont see why this contradiction is here in the first place, perhaps the entire paragraoh shown should be deleted.86.150.145.177 (talk) 20:42, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I've removed all the uncited material, as well as the "unsubstantiated rumors" line, since it seems out of place in this section. In order to better target this section, I've added some cited text on Amin's "buffoon" persona in the international media. I've glossed over the distinction between contemporary and later appraisals of his foreign-media persona, which more direct quotes and citations could help improve ... but for now it's all basically cited work. Best, -- Docether (talk) 18:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It is particularly important to mention the rumour that Amin was a cannibal, because it is a widespread rumour, but more importantly because it helps clarify that it is nothing but at a rumour. I have been editing this article for ages, before that clarification was made, once a week someone came and wrote that Amin was a cannibal. See e.g. the comment bellow that Amin was a mad man with syphilis, another unsubstantiated rumour that people will keep adding unless we clarify the issue. --Ezeu (talk) 22:41, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Update -- while looking for references to deal with some other edits that keep coming up, I found an online excerpt from Wole Soyinka's book The Burden of Memory, the Muse of Forgiveness where he brings up the cannibalism (and heads-in-the-refrigerator rumor) with first-hand sources. It's an interesting bit of text, which sadly doesn't really confirm anything, but at least gives us a first-hand source to cite. I've added it as a footnote, with an extended quote. If you read on in the linked article (it's just a long extract from the book), there's some interesting commentary on how these rumors were viewed through the lens of African politics :

"Western propaganda!" my friend screamed. "How could you believe such preposterous fabrication?" In vain I tried to impress on him the reliability of my sources ... Nothing would shake the belief of my disputant that such a scourge of Western powers could not descend to such a level of barbarity -- how else would the "Western press" be expected to take their revenge except by concoctions that showed African leaders as depraved beyond imagining?

Here's the link. -- Docether (talk) 15:54, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

*"Notes" Section* I would like to point out that some if not many of the links listed are no longer working. I do not know much about editing a wiki page, so I am going to leave this area alone. I know I am asking a lot, but it would be nice if someone could check the links and possibly clean this area up. Thanks to whomever takes on this job and thanks to all of the people who give their time making wiki a great internet resource! ~ Mrs. Torres ~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.126.82.108 (talk) 04:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

VD

I didnt see this in the article, but it might be noteworthy that Amin had contracted various veneral diseases numerous times throughout his life, and particularly the possibility that he had syphillis (which I believe he was diagnosed with) would have affected his judgement/rule, as it affects brain function. I just think perhaps this is worthy of mention, a reliable source is his obituary in the guardian newspaper.86.150.145.177 (talk) 01:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

When I was in Saudi Arabia, I knew an American who worked for a medical company that managed several hospitals in Jeddah - one of which was the one where Amin was treated on a regular basis - and he told me that Amin had syphllis, that it was advanced to the point that they could not cure it, that it would retreat to the base of his spine but that they could not get rid of the spirochets. He told me that that was at least partly (or largely) responsible for Amin being crazy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.141.170 (talk) 10:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Move Page to "Idi Amin"?

I'm wondering if there are any objections to moving this page to "Idi Amin". There are more links to Idi Amin than Idi Amin Dada within wikipedia, and as described by our article the shorter version is the common name for this person. No information would be lost, as the introductory line would continue to have his full name. Erudy (talk) 22:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Alright, no objections as yet...page moved. Erudy (talk) 23:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

references

this article cites sources which may not be reputable; some references are to colorful publications whih can best be described as "opinion-editorials", and other references provide links which have been disabled. Not being an expert on Idi amin, or even particularly interested, I can not speculate to what degree this has resulted in less than accurate charcterizations, but it may warrent attention from someone knowledgable of this subject who does not possess a bias for or against Amin's actions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.130.112.41 (talk) 15:27, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

No link to Uganda?

Is anyone else bothered that there is not a single direct link to the Wiki article on Uganda. I would suggest that the first mention of 'President of Uganda' be split up into links to 'President' (for a formal definition) and 'Uganda.' The infobox contains a link to 'President of Uganda,' if it's absolutely necessary to have a link to that at all. Bppubjr (talk) 01:22, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Date of birth?

On many webpages it stands that he was born 1 January 1925 or 1923 but I have also seen that swedish wikipedia dedicates his birthday to 17 may 1928. Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.230.193.22 (talk) 15:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Scotland?

Wasn't he kind of obsessed with Scotland? Why is there no mention of that here? Tad Lincoln (talk) 06:30, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

So he was, and the article makes no mention of it. He also took a good liking towards Scotch Whiskey. Anyone with an idea to what brand he liked the most? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.89.69.144 (talk) 00:18, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, didnt he confer the title of King of Scotland upon himself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.138.244 (talk) 06:04, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

The Scottish link came from Independence time, when Amin was one of the first of the black troops to be commissioned in the King’s African Rifles. Before that, all the officers were white, and all the rank-and-file were black, and the British government wanted to change this, if possible.

Rather oddly, they thought that officers in Highland regiments were more familiar with the clan system, and would understand the tribal dimension in the KAR. A Major Mitchell of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders selected Amin for promotion, and Amin showed his gratitude later by wearing the headgear of the Argylls (glengarry with red-and-white dicing). This major went on to become ‘Mad Mitch’, who led the invasion of Aden Crater in 1967.

Sorry forgot to sign. Valetude (talk) 22:38, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Macbeth

in the 2004 production, by the Out of Joint company potrayed Macbeth as Idi Amin Dada. I was wondering if someone could put in a reference. thx. --FailureAtDeath (talk) 04:28, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Coup

See this:- http://www.monitor.co.ug/artman/publish/special_adi-amin-profile/Who_killed_Acholi_Langi_soldiers_83547.shtml :-

But as Akena, Ssendawula, Semaganda, Etonu and others were celebrating in London what they thought was the impending overthrow of Obote, little did they know that a soldier called Isaac Maliyamungu --- who spoke a range of languages from English to Lusoga, Luganda, Runyoro, Kakwa, Kiswahili, Luo, among others --- had overheard some Acholi and Langi soldiers based at the Malire Regiment at the Lubiri in Kampala discussing the coup plans.

Maliyamungu alerted his colleagues in the army and soon a group of non-Acholi and non-Langi, fearing that they were about to be arrested by the coup plotters working for Akena Adoko, staged a fight back that culminated into what we now know as the military coup that brought the army commander, Major-General Idi Amin to power.

I also notice that the comments mention other references, not all supportive. Wizzy…☎ 08:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Video dealing with Myth around Idi Amin.

I think it also contains footage from the 1974 'documentary' movie about him: http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/nazishrunkenheads/ Shall we include that. --41.15.167.247 (talk) 16:53, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Idi Amin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

Starting GA reassessment as part of the GA Sweeps process. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, listed below. I will check back in seven days. If these issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GAR). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions, and many thanks for all the hard work that has gone into this article thus far..

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   I would suggest that the listing of the Tittybangbang sketch show amounts to trivia. Amin was satirised on lots of TV sketch shows, nothing makes this notable. Y

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   I fixed a number of dead links and redirects using WP:CHECKLINKS. Ref #25 [1] is not a RS; ref #27 redirects to the front page of the Telegraph, not the obituray; ref #28 is a personal webapge not RS; ref #29 redirects to the front page of teh Amnesty site, does not support statement; ref #32 is a mission site reproducing artciles; shiould be correctly attributed; ref #47 same as #27; ref #55 the book should be correctly attributed, ISBN, publisher, etc; ref #60 is not a RS

   ref #4 [2] is to a mission site not an RS, it apparently reproduces newspaper articles - these should be cited correctly; ref #10 [an Palmowski, Dictionary of Contemporary World History: From 1900 to the present day. Second Edition, Oxford University Press, 2003 (ISBN 0-19-860539-0)] the page number is not cited; ref #24 [3] is a dead link; ref #25 [4] redirects to the Amnesty front page - does not support statement; ref #28 as ref #4; ref #42 [5] is a dead link; ref #43 [6] redirects to a holding page does not support the information; ref #44, a book, needs a page number; ref #56 [7] is a forum or bulletin board - not a RS. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC) Y

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   OK, on hold for seven days for above issues to be fixed. Major contributors and projects will be informed. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:10, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I fixed the Telegraph ones and the Amnesty one. I am replacing the unreliable ones now. I do think this simply deserved a note on the talkpage rather than all of this bureacracy and tallying. Woody (talk) 17:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Done all of your issues now. Note that all of the information for the books is in the "References" section... Regards, Woody (talk) 18:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry that you don't appreciate that my GA reassessments are made in a consistent fashion. GA reviewers like to use check-lists to make sure that all points are covered and so that editors can see what is going on. I have been through the references again and there are still a number of outstanding issues as per above. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:03, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah - you are still working on the references. I took the comment Done all of your issues now to mean that you had finished. No problems, I will come back in a week. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

The links meet GA criteria as they are, I just decided to give them a complete workover to give full information. I must apologise for the dead links you just tagged, I did fix them earlier, but I somehow removed them, presumably by editing an old version of the page.

In terms of the checklists, I am aware that they are common for GA. But why go through this, creating subpages, getting tallies up on sweeps scoreboards, if all it would have taken was a note on the talkpage saying, you have some dead links, could you fix them? Regards, Woody (talk) 20:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

All done now, ready for your review. Woody (talk) 23:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

OK, thanks for your hard work. am happy to confirm the article's GA status. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Idi Amin on front page

... in DYK section today. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:04, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

"Notes" and "Footnotes"

Shouldn't these sections be combined into just one "notes" section? The current division is confusing and unnecessary. Postdlf (talk) 23:22, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The sections are for two different things: the "notes" section provides further information on certain parts of the article, whereas the "footnotes" section is a list of the sources used for in-text citation. It might be possible to integrate the "notes" into the article itself, but it would not make sense to combine the two sections. Tad Lincoln (talk) 23:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

It isn't at all obvious to me that "notes" would just be explanative, and "footnotes" would be for supporting references. Neither term has that precise meaning as far as I am aware. Some of the footnotes furthermore contain quotes from the sources, which bring them much closer to the elaborative notes. The alternating between letters and numbers within the article itself is also disorienting. Has this already been addressed by a MOS somewhere? Postdlf (talk) 23:47, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Cannibalism

While I am in no way able to back this up with documented sources, more than a few high-ranking Soviet diplomats who associated with relatives of mine claimed that it was, in fact, the truth. Some went even so far as to say that a certain Soviet delegation was unknowingly treated to human meat dishes at a banquet and informed afterward by Idi Amin himself. To say that they were disturbed and distressed by this would be a major understatement. Obviously, though, the Soviet Union did not care to make this public, since earlier association with such a regime would not look too good for it. Aadieu (talk) 06:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

A couple of citations could use support

"In this atmosphere of violence, many other people were killed for criminal motives or simply at will.[29] Bodies floated on the River Nile in quantities sufficient to clog the Owen Falls Hydro-Electric Dam in Jinja on at least one occasion.[30]"

Citation [29] could use support from a second source, as Amnesty would have an agenda and it would shore up that section given the nature of the sentence. Citation [30] is from CNN, which is not the most reliable source for this kind of thing and in any case is quoting a third party in that source. I've tagged this second citation with a fact-needed tag to reflect this. SGGH ^ping! 13:38, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little taken aback by "Amnesty would have an agenda". Sure it has a particular area in which it works, but I do not see how you can make the leap to its being a potentially unreliable source. On the contrary I tend to view it as much more reliable than many official or quasi-official sources. It certainly has an agenda in opposing torture, unfair imprisonment and execution but how this would make it have a tendency to falsify information I do not follow. Applying the same argument more broadly would leave us, I feel, with potentially NO trustworthy sources anywhere in the encyclopaedia, (with the obvious exception of the Pope). DBaK (talk) 06:48, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia contradicts itself.

The beginning said he was eventually Major General. Later in the article, it says he was Field Marshall. The later is correct.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Assorg (talk • contribs) 05:31, 27 April 2010

It says he was Major General prior to taking power. --Ezeu (talk) 20:43, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Category:Anti-communists

Was Idi an anticommunist? From what I've read of him, he didn't seem to have much of an ideology. He seemed to mostly be focused on staying in power. Moreover, he was pretty close to the U.S.S.R. and East Germany. Josh (talk) 05:55, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I have removed that category several times, but someone keeps adding it back. Idi Amin had no particular anti-communist leanings.Ezeu (talk) 22:30, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Scotland

Do we really need a box showing Scottish royal succession and Amin's claim? I am unsure - I was surprised, but I am not sure it's wrong and would like to know what others think. I have a bit of a feeling that it might be undue emphasis, or something ... but I really don't know. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 07:02, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Amin was a high profile claimant and pretender to the throne. Singling him out is not NPOV. Lt.Specht (talk) 07:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

That Amin claimed to be the King of Scotland is a tall story based on Giles Foden's work of fiction, and even in that work of fiction the pretence was merely frivolous. Therefore I am removing that succession box. Ezeu (talk) 22:25, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Tall story? Incorrect. Dozens of reliable academic sources state that he declared himself King of Scotland and acted as a pretender [8]. Lt.Specht (talk) 04:16, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Then surely, if you are right, you can cite those sources to support your claim. What I'm finding very difficult is that the article does not mention Amin's claim at all. Search through it for the word "Scotland" and you'll see what I mean. The word "Scotland" is used seven times. One is in the disputed succession infobox and the other six are references, mostly direct but one through an article, to the film title. If the infobox is to be part of the article - and I am still unconvinced that it should be - then surely the article must talk about it. It seems to me, though YMMV, quite wrong to have an infobox documenting a claim which the article wholly ignores. I would suggest that the correct sequence of work should possibly be (1) remove the disputed infobox; (2) document Amin's claim to the title; (3) in particular, make sure that (2) includes documenting that it was a serious claim which should be treated and documented as a real pretendership(?) (and not just an eccentric piece of wackiness like claiming to be from the planet Tharg or to be Joan Sutherland's secret lovechild or to have invented chess, because we might mention those things but we would not I hope dignify them with an infobox); and only then (4) bring it back here to build consensus to put the infobox in. If (2) and (3) are done properly then surely (4) could not be difficult? But to have the infobox there when the article doesn't even touch the subject seems terribly cart-before-horse to me. Thanks and best wishes, DBaK (talk) 11:56, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes. And until it is substantiated that Amin made any serious claim to the Scottish throne we shouldnt have such a succession box in the artice. Ezeu (talk) 23:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

With all respect, the claim itself was already substantiated with the numerous sources I provided, and I saw no other sources submitted otherwise which rejected the claim from anyone. The sources used in the section I created do not state that his claim was frivolous or not serious. If this is what someone is trying to prove, or believes it was the case, they should provide sources which say so, anything else is original research. Best regards, Lt.Specht (talk) 06:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

If someone is going to make note of Idi Amin's claim to Scotland, they should also note that the title "King of Scotland" never existed. The proper term for a male monarch of Scotland was King of Scots, not King of Scotland. There's no need for an infobox for a deranged individual making a claim on a nonexistent title. 71.52.128.216 (talk) 19:08, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

That's a latter day myth - see Style of the monarchs of Scotland. Both styles were in use when there was a separate throne. The idea that "King of Scotland" was never used seems to be a product of an after-the-event search for distinctive terms. Timrollpickering (talk) 21:54, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Question regarding Israeli support of Mr Amin

Can anyone confirm that Mr Amin was a whole-hearted supporter of Israel until the Israelis refused to give him aircraft and trained pilots to attack an neighboring nation? I have heard that he accepted Israeli aid and took their side on Arab/Israeli issues until that time. Then, when the Israelis refused to give him upgraded weapons and advisors he switched sides as it were and reached out to Libya. Perhaps someone who is a specialist in this area can document this one way or the other. Thanks. (71.22.47.232 (talk) 05:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC))

Article talk pages aren't meant to be used for asking questions about the subject; if you want an answer you should try Wikipedia:Reference desk (or another website).Prezbo (talk) 05:32, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Question regarding "British Commonwealt passports" and Asians in Uganda

A friend of Indian ancestry born in Uganda said that the issue was about what he called "British Commonwealth passports." He said that when given a choice he and his family had opted for "British Commonwealth passports" rather than Indian or Ugandan passports because they could travel more freely with a BC passport than with either of the other two. Mr Amin initially tried to get BC passport holders living in Uganda to exchange their BC passports for Ugandan passports and then when the Asian population began leaving the country he tried to save face by making it about Ungandan control of the Ugandan economy. I haven't found a Wikipedia entry for "British Commonwealth passport," but maybe someone who is a specialist in this area can explain the passport issue and also document one way or the other whether Mr Amin tried to get Asians living in Uganda to take Ugandan citizenship before he moved on to nationalizing their holdings. Thanks. (71.22.47.232 (talk) 05:41, 25 January 2011 (UTC))

Why did the USSR helped this guy?

This article is very interesting and well writen, but there is something that I would like to know. It's crystal clear that this guy was completely mad and paranoïd (or feigning it to be underestimated). But why would the Soviets send him money and weapons? His policies were eratic, racist, brutal, expansionistic and he didn't even share any ideologic ties with USSR. I doubt also that Uganda was really a place of strategic importance. I am sure that when he spoked at the United Nations, the Soviets were embarassed by what he said. So why did they help him? Perhaps, Brejniev saw in him an "alter ego" ? :D Kovlovsky (talk) 01:08, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Cold war alliances were nothing if not irrational. Ezeu (talk) 18:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Bias in emphasizing USSR/East Germany support with no mention of US, British support to coup, no mention of undoing Obote's nationalizations

One person on here is asking why the USSR would support Amin. In the cold war, both sides often supported bad guys in their quest for influence over smaller pieces in a kind of "global chessboard". One thing that is striking about the article, is the support of the USSR and East Germany is emphasized, while there is zero mention of the widely known and documented facts that Britain and the United States supported his military coup, and also continued to supply him with an amount of weapons, some of them through Israel. The US also trained some of his secret police, though in a running theme of bias the article only mentions the communist support to his secret police. The US and British support to the coup was because the previous guy, Milton Obote, nationalized some industries, and follows a common pattern with other US support to right wing overthrows of populists such as in Iraq or Chile. The article here is missing key information to understand the historical process by not mentioning Milton Obote's nationalizations and Idi Amin's denationalizations of those companies, instead the article as currently written only mentions Idi Amin's renationalizion of them after relations with Britain broke down. That both sides gave him support while he was in power was not unusual during the cold war, you can quickly confirm this by doing some research into who was giving weapons to right wing war dictatorship states such as Egypt and Argentina. If you think Israel would never give weapons to anti-semitic dictatorships, just do a little research on the history of Argentina. -(76.176.223.57 (talk) 18:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC))

I removed:

Amin became more erratic and outspoken during the course of his regime. In 1971, Amin and Zaire's president Mobutu Sese Seko changed the names of Lake Albert and Lake Edward to Lake Mobutu Sese Seko and Lake Idi Amin Dada, respectively.

The information seemed, in the larger picture, largely irrelevant to the relationship between Britain and Amin. Moreover, I fail to see the objective importance of naming African lakes after British princes or Ugandan and Congolese 'presidents'.

References

Naked Gun

I think this entry should be removed from the section of portrayals of Amin in film. Unlike the other films listed, which were serious studies of Amin, The Naked Gun has one very brief scene in which Amin and other dictators are portrayed in extremely comedic fashion. This character was meant to be a parody, rather than a representation of Amin himself. Joefromrandb (talk) 14:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Fair point, now removed. Thanks for the comment. Next time you could be bold and edit it yourself and leave a note here or in the edit summary. Regards, Woody (talk) 17:01, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. For GAs and FAs I generally ask for feedback before removing anything unless it's egregiously inappropriate. Thanks for the response and the removal. Joefromrandb (talk) 01:53, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I can certainly understand that. Thanks again, Woody (talk) 11:22, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Source: Idi Amin's retirement

I found:

• Bronner, Ethan. "Idi Amin's obscenely easy exile." International Herald Tribune. Wednesday 20 October 2003.

WhisperToMe (talk) 23:45, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Idi Amin-Birth Place & hometown.(origins).

There is a piece of History about Idi Amin that I find quite disturbing-his origins,and I hope time is up to set the record right.I am a kakwa from koboko but I can tell you this,Amin is not a kakwa from koboko.He has no land,clan,village in koboko and contrary to history,the kakwa are not a tiny/small/minority ethnic community.I can rate them amongst the largest ethnic groups in Africa.They cut across CAR,S.Sudan,Eastern DRC and the Smallest in Uganda.SO WHERE IS AMIN FROM? He hails from the larger kakwa community in present day DRC.I know his clan,his people and close relatives-better than even any close family member.His clan has gone incognito and into limbo fearing for reprisals for attrocities committed during his era/reign in Uganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.88.118.190 (talk) 04:59, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Without citations from reliable sources, any claim cannot be made here. Frankly, WHO his clan is and direct family is irrelevant to the majority of the world and only of interest in Uganda for the reasons you listed, reprisals.Wzrd1 (talk) 17:33, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Year of birth

I was looking at the various languaged Wikipedia articles on Idi Amin through the interwiki links and it seems just about every Wikipedia has its own suggestion about his year of birth ranging from c. 1923-1928. Obviously if his year and date of birth is unknown it is unknown, but perhaps this should be clarified in the lead, perhaps next to his approx. birth date? --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:27, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

The uncertainty and lack of reliable documentation on his birth and family seem to be clear to me, as written in the Early Life section.Wzrd1 (talk) 17:28, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I recall reading (in 1976 or 1977) when he was President in Uganda that in a Time magazine (US) cover story article his age was given as 49 (so born 1926 at earliest) and that he served in the KAR in Burma in WWII (although evidence I have seen elsewhere does not support the alleged service as in fact he joined in 1946).Cloptonson (talk) 22:26, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Most of what is written in this article are lies (his birth date might be correct)

Idi Amin was close to Golda Meir and Moshe Dayan, but when he befriended the Arabs the American press began to attack him and made up the most ridiculous atrocity stories (similar to what they did to the Germans). This is a movie clip about lies, propaganda and Jewish group-think. Idi Amin is also interviewed. It's very revealing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eowsbXrBhig — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.246.138 (talk) 15:39, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Sure it is, IP. Look, ever hear of RELIABLE SOURCES? Read the references and stop the nonsense.HammerFilmFan (talk) 06:59, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

C'mon, the anti-Semitic Conspiracy Theory attacks again... Maybe the discredit campaign against Amin can already be found in the Protocols? BTW, funny the comment "similar to what they -the Jews- did to the Germans". Idi Amin and Hitler, those two unacknowledged benefactors... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.145.136.20 (talk) 13:17, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Don't feed the troll... —Brigade Piron (talk) 15:22, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Genocide

No mention of genocide? He only killed like 500,000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.192.56.138 (talk) 22:14, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

If you have sources to back up this claim, then by all means. Solntsa90 (talk) 01:14, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Inclusion of titles

Is it appropriate to include Idi Amin's titles, even if self-appointed, in the article? I think they should be included as matter of fact, even if they are mostly risible. Solntsa90 (talk) 01:12, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

One sided version

This article has all the colours of a deliberate propaganda. He is full of vices in a landscape where almost all others who were inimical to him or his enemies, had more or less similar vices or wickedness. So, it might be mentioned that a better quality, impartial article might be good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.221.255.145 (talk) 08:35, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

If you feel that the article gives undue weight to one perspective then it's best to find reliable sources that give a different perspective. If you have those then please get to editting. Without them thing, there's really no way to change the perspectives in the article. 12:57, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Sri Lankan Days?

While visiting a pen-pal in Sri Lanka (Ceylon) in 1976, the father of a pen-pal who was my host said that he'd worked in the kitchen of Colombo's Galle Face Hotel alongside Idi Amin. He claimed that Amin was at that time a cook. While it is true that Ceylon was a British possession at the time of his service in the Colonial armed forces in south Asia, and that cook was one of Amin's roles while in uniform, this comes nowhere near confirming the tale. He'd either have had to have worked there between his discharge and return to Uganda or have been billeted in Galle Face during operations while still in service. Anyone out there have any information that can confirm this unlikely but intriguing story?

67.55.154.8 (talk) 04:02, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

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Infobox's inclusion of Amin's honorific title

This article uses the Infobox officeholder template, as do thousands of other articles in English Wikipedia. Integral to that template (adopted by consensus) is the honorific title of the officeholder. Yet, two editors who are otherwise strangers to this article have driven by and deleted the honorific title of Amin, presumably because he was an unsavory character. This deletion should be reversed. 2605:6000:EF52:B200:189A:8D19:422F:5221 (talk) 03:29, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Isn't an honorific title usually something like Mr., Dr., Prof.? The article says that Amin proclaimed himself "His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Alhaji Dr. Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, CBE". Was that ever uttered again? Was that really in common usage? MB 03:41, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

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From hindsight

Looking at what is happening in nations like England/Britain, USA etc., Idi Amin does really seem to be a great statesman with great discerning powers and foresight. It is possible that he saved his nation from being devoured by outsiders, especially from South Asia.