Talk:Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Better main photo needed

The main photo for Ocasio-Cortez has poor coloration, low resolution, and shows the subject with an odd expression. Wikimedia Commons doesn't have anything better yet, but once there is something it should be replaced. - Sdkb (talk) 08:12, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

• There's nothing good on commons right now. This is actually the best one we have. I recommend waiting for an official portrait in the coming months or encourage users to upload NON-COPYVIO (FREE-USE) images to commons. There's already a copyvio in commons as we speak. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:36, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

The United States House of Representatives will provide one sooner or later. If a better one (non-copyvio etc) pops up before that, ok, but the present one is not horrible as these things go. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:56, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

I uploaded a screen grab from a Creative Commons video that might be good for the near future. Let me know if it works!The lorax (talk) 23:19, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I've looked a couple times for something better. The screen grab isn't really flattering either honestly. It looks like she's having violent stomach pain. GMG^talk 23:33, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Personal Opinion

The section on the subject's views on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict contains the following:

Ignoring the violent nature of the protests[107] as well as the large numbers of protesters who were armed members of Hamas (considered a terrorist group by the US and the EU) - some of whom were shot attempting to breach the Israeli border,[108] Ocasio-Cortez compared the situation to the peaceful teachers' strike taking place in West Virginia at the time, asking what would happen if 60 people had been shot at the latter event.

The citations (107 and 108) link to this article: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/12/middleeast/gaza-protests-palestinians-killed/index.html

That article provides general information on the protests, and not the subject's quote, or an opinion on the subject's views. As such, it seems that the phrase "Ignoring the violent nature ... border," colors the article with the personal opinion of the author. Can we edit this to a more neutral statement of the subject's views? Even just striking out the personal opinion phrase.

Anotheranshu (talk) 01:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

This seems to be an attempt of WP:LIBEL. I've reverted it and issued a final warning considering the editor has done this before. How come does such an edit survive for an hour and half? Tsumikiria (T/C) 01:38, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Minor ICE statement removed

Re including the ICE fact check, I find:

Ocasio-Cortez claimed that "ICE is required to fill 34,000 beds with detainees every single night and that number has only been increasing since 2009."

(The article replies) The language in the congressional appropriations bills from 2009 through 2016 only mandates that ICE keep at least 33,400 (later 34,000) beds available. The bills don’t state that those beds need to be filled. Under different DHS secretaries, the government’s interpretation of the law has varied as to whether the beds need to be filled or not.

It seems that she was incorrect, but I can't see that this minor mistake is so important as to include it in her bio. I have deleted it. Gandydancer (talk) 13:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 November 2018

She was not preceded by Elise Stefanik referenced at the bottom of the page. Elise Stefanik is a Republican who is still in Congress. DeputyDawgH20 (talk) 16:10, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done You may be misreading the intent. She replaced Stefanik as the youngest member of the House. JesseRafe (talk) 16:14, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Criticisms of Ocasio-Cortez

I feel like this article is overly positive for someone who has encountered so much criticism. She's been accused of not being ready or knowledgable enough for office, as well as too sensational. She was very campaign focused, and struggled with what to do or how to make it even in between winning the election and taking office. She also has made her way onto a number of 'bad economics' forms, and has been criticized heavily for some of her policies. Lastly she is an extreme left (socialist) politician, and her article reads like she's very middle of the road. I came to this article to learn about her, and I feel like if someone just read this wikipedia article they'd have a very distorted picture of what she stands for and what types of opposition she's faced. I'm not sure if this would take the best form as a separate section about her or if it'd make more sense to add more accurate details throughout the article, I'd be interested to hear what you all have to say though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haxonek (talk • contribs) 23:21, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

It seems to me like your point of view was already established before you came here. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:24, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources that discuss criticisms of her, that can be added to the article and summarized neutrally? If so, post links. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:26, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

@Haxonek: It describes her as a socialist at the beginning of political positions. PeterTheFourth (talk) 23:32, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

I've explained to this new editor that socialism is not extreme left (by which I assume he means "far left". Doug Weller talk 12:13, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

"accused" and "criticized" by who exactly? Trump? Alex Jones? Fox News? and why? because she's not a plutocrat? provide source and we can review them. Acousmana (talk) 14:01, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

@Acousmana: I'm sorry if my initial talk came off too strong, I haven't used the talk pages/wikipedia edit much and I'm still getting used to it. Additionally I'm very liberal myself, however Cortez has come under fire a number of times for getting basic facts wrong. She claimed unemployment was low because everyone was working two jobs, she's accused the upper middle class of disappearing (when it's been growing considerably), and a number of other things from the defense budget to suggesting the US population was ~500 million people (here's the washington post criticizing her: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2q4cHONB6I, politifact: https://www.politifact.com/personalities/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/statements/?list=speaker, etc). I'm not suggesting we bash her here, however the opposition to her cites her frequent misrepresentation of facts, and unlike most politician pages there is no criticism section for Cortez. Haxonek (talk) 06:17, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

(Comment) That WaPo video didn't present any substance to back their criticism, plus it's a Youtube video. Her politifact page, a primary source, only has four entries. Per WP:BLP, criticism can be included only if reliable secondary sources present them "responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone". All those accusations would fail these requirements. Inclusion of criticism would be disproportionate at this point, and a dedicated criticism section is actually not a good solution. "Bad economics" is subjective, socialism is nowhere near far left and conservative media painting her as a socialist demon or sth is already noted in article.

If we're going to write something, here is one from Jacobin: [1]. In case this is ever useful. Tsumikiria (T/C) 07:44, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

"Inclusion of criticism would be disproportionate at this point"! No criticisms allowed! 2604:2000:1580:440E:E961:51F9:B9BD:3714 (talk) 16:58, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2018

Remove educator from the opening sentence describing who she is. An educator is someone who teaches. She is a politician and has never held a position as a teacher or professor. 174.205.12.226 (talk) 17:38, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: The "early career" section explains her history as an educator. She is not a teacher, and is not listed as one, but she is an educator. DannyS712 (talk) 17:54, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Edit Request

From the lede paragraph: "who is an intern for New York's 14th congressional district, having been selected on November 6, 2018." I think you mean "representative-elect", rather than "intern." 96.38.156.2 (talk) 20:56, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Fixed.The lorax (talk) 21:03, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2018

This page reeks of fans having written it. I came looking for information on a politician I knew nothing about and now I know only that she's surrounded by a ton of spin. Under "Primary election" it specifies someone not possessing the subject's phone number as proof of "outsider status", which is an unsubstantiated correlation. The lack of a phone number is irrelevant to her biography and the line beginning "In a sign of.." should be removed altogether. At a minimum the first phrase, "In a sign of her outsider status," presuming causation, should be removed. Other issues: in personal info it says she moved to The Bronx, at the end of the article it says she moved to FL. There's repetition about an irrelevant award she won in high school. The article makes a lot of her positive media coverage, so why not more detail about relevant things like this: "Ocasio-Cortez received backlash after barring members of the media from attending her "listening tour" on August 8 in the Bronx and August 12 in Corona, Queens.[76][77][78]". Where are the details about her journey between sitting in on the pipeline demonstration and becoming convinced she was the best person to represent her district two years later? Where is her actual bio? Listen, I'm a liberal reader from VT but the article makes me think that this person is all spin and no substance. 65.96.48.39 (talk) 19:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 15:55, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Major Vandalism!!!!

I just found this nugget: "When she takes office on January 3, 2019, at 29, Ocasio-Cortez will be the dumbest woman to serve in Congress in the history of the United States.[9] That distinction was previously held by Democrat Maxine Waters.[10] Ocasio-Cortez believes she will be ‘inaugurated’. Wrong.

Currently, Ocasio-Cortez can’t afford an apartment in D.C. She announced this just weeks after announcing that federally funded Medicare for All, free college tuition, and free housing, aren’t “pie in the sky” proposals. These policies would actually cost roughly $42.5 trillion. Her tax proposals to fund this only cover $2 trillion. She has no explanation for the remaining $40.5 trillion. At least we now understand why she believes free housing should be federally funded. If anyone is renting a room in the D.C. area, please contact her via Twitter. We’re not sure where her office is as she probably can’t afford that either."

I don't know how to fix this. Is there a special report option available? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.1.166.62 (talk) 18:14, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

• Fixed by reverting the most recent edit. Pending Changes protected as well. Courcelles (talk) 18:21, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Can we at least use IPA?

I know American people may be more familiar with respelling, but IPA is nevertheless the standard. However my knowledge of IPA is slipping from me, can anyone help verify the following? Thanks.

US: /oʊˈkɑːsioʊ/ Tsumikiria (T/C) 02:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, we can definitely include IPA. But, any spelling featuring prominently in the lead needs to be based on US-English, whether respelling or IPA. This is en-wiki, and a Spanish pronunciation is not appropriate in an article about an American, regardless of their heritage, unless reliable sources in English primarily use a foreign pronunciation; this is very rarely the case. Mathglot (talk) 03:05, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Also, the Youtube video where she says her name in a campaign ad should be removed as a source and replaced with a better one, because right where you need to hear it clearly, the sound is obscured, and makes it sound like she's mispronouncing her own name. Either her video is right, or this one is; they can't both be right. Mathglot (talk) 04:10, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

As I've learned as a Wiktionarian, "How To Pronounce" channel videos are sadly unreliable (often wrong), and that one gets her first name wrong. I think the "Courage to Change" ad, in which she says her name twice, is clear enough to use, and our transcription is good. It's fine to also include how she pronounces her name in Spanish, which she also speaks (pronunciation, by an interviewer, here). Other articles on Americans who speak Spanish do often include the Spanish pronunciation, as far as I have seen, sometimes to the exclusion of the pronunciation commonly used in English (e.g., Cesar Chavez's article)! -sche (talk) 04:55, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

I think we can put the English pronunciation first, though. -sche (talk) 05:04, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

The HuffPost article has "Alexandria Oh-CAH-see-oh Cortez" in small text below the picture. There has been some discussion off-wiki about the pronunciation of her name, so I feel Template:Respell is warranted as a supplement (not replacement) to IPA. I'd think the better long-term solution is IPA + audio recording, once we have a reliable source, like on Zbigniew Brzezinski.-Ich (talk) 09:31, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

The Huffpost-style respell is accurate for how her name is pronounced in English (American diphthongs, final -z sound), and the ny1noticias interviewer pronounces it accurately in proper, Latin-American Spanish (monophthongs, final -s sound). (Btw, good spot on the Cesar Chavez article, but not few English news readers would pronounce it that way, and the first line should be changed.) As far as her own video, what I hear her saying is "Cor-TAHS" which I think is where the audio must be screwing up. Given her background, surname, and more to the point, the fact that her home country has multiple, major, hispanic television networks that say her name, it makes sense to include the Spanish pronunciation, albeit second. Mathglot (talk) 11:51, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Especially the first time she says her name at the 0:20 second mark of the ad, she doesn't voice the final sibilant very strongly (possibly under Spanish influence?), you're right, but the vowel does sound like /ɛ/ to me, and the final consonant does sound like a (weakly-voiced) /z/ especially the second time she says it (at 2:01). The /ɛz/ is clearer in e.g. [2]. (Some interviewers also voice the -cas-, i.e. /kɑz/, e.g. [3].) As an aside, I'm surprised to see the pronunciation that Sonia Sotomayor's article leads with, after all the hoopla in the news when she was nominated about how "weird" it was [for white people] that her name was stressed on the last syllable; did she change the pronunciation after that? (Edit: I see someone has pointed out on that talk page that it's unsourced. I'll just remove it, with apologies for the digression here.) -sche (talk) 18:32, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

This is not an encyclopedia article

It is an advertisement, with commissars at the ready to delete anything other than worshipful fan letters. 2604:2000:1580:440E:E961:51F9:B9BD:3714 (talk) 17:02, 27 November 2018 (UTC)