User talk:Johnvr4

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Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Jytdog (talk) 17:10, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

sorry about this. i cannot figure out why you are so intent on getting the "no books" thing in - but in any case you have no consensus on the talk page for that, but you keep inserting it. again, sorry. Jytdog (talk) 17:15, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Yet another misrepresentation of the facts. The talk page quite clearly states that there is concensus but without the clarification I requested on what has concensus.Johnvr4 (talk) 17:29, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

The issue is really simple. You don't have consensus for the edit, but you keep making it. I posted to the noticeboard because you seem dedicated to getting it in, regardless of opposition. That is the definition of edit warring. Jytdog (talk) 17:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Consensus was determined by the quality of the arguments as all counter arguments lacked quality.Johnvr4 (talk) 17:46, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

As one of the participants you are not in a great place to assess the quality of arguments, are you. Look John, the right way to proceed when there are disagreements is WP:DR, not continually making the edit. I have no more to say here; you are probably going to be warned or maybe blocked. We can talk more after the EWN case is sorted. Jytdog (talk) 17:50, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I was able to determine 2/3 of the concerns about my edits were completely made up with zero basis in reality. It is obvious that the other 3rd of the concerns lacked any support or reason. It wasn't that difficult of a determination to make. Why would it?Johnvr4 (talk) 18:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Direct link with comments: WP:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive331#User:Johnvr4_reported_by_User:Jytdog_.28Result:_.29 Johnvr4 (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions alert

This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding pseudoscience and fringe science, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

• John, I realize you have been alerted about this before, and it's not my intention to pester you. But since the earlier alert was in 2014, you might reasonably have forgotten it. Bishonen | talk 17:18, 28 November 2016 (UTC).

Thanks for the reminder. For years several editors kept reinserting garbage from Chemtrail update personal website into that article repeatedly. [1]. I repeatedly called it vandalism.Johnvr4 (talk) 17:53, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

There was even a warning from an editor user:Second Quantization who went out of his way to protect idiotic content of the conspiracy website source and prevented the only editor that recognized what was happening (Me) from fixing it while every other involved editor on that page at that time seemed hell bent on reinserting the dubious material they would not verify while saying I was simply edit warring.

Each editor on the noticeboard had the same opinion and also repeatedly called it edit warring while failing to recognize the root of the issue which was BS content from a conspiracy site. Vandalism may have been too strong a term as I misinterpreted intent rather than the result.

The fact is that the other involved editors absolutely won that "edit war" but they looked really bad doing it when I showed these editors had been reinserting that dubious content for many years. The comment here may be a bit WP:pointy but this explanation will continue each time and every time the issue is brought up because not one editor verified the source themselves and I was the one held accountable for their ineptitude. The archive will be always available for every involved editor to refer back to in hindsight if an editor takes issue with my synopsis. I had a faulty mouse when I typed the notice board responses. Johnvr4 (talk) 00:53, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Note

Johnvr, it seems that you have a longer term goal of getting the history of how the conspiracy developed into the article. Pounding away on this book thing in a way that is garnering no support, is digging yourself a big hole. It is useful to be strategic - don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. Jytdog (talk) 01:31, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. That goal has it's own talk section and sandbox which you were kind enough to help me with. Please come back to the talk section on it.

"The book thing" was an edit that I felt was very highly unlikely to be challenged. It looks like I was wrong somehow but as of this edit, no one has explained how. If this is how my edits to only change a few words are going to be received, we may be in for a long policy-based discussion. It's obvious that we could all get a whole lot done towards improving the article with some constructive criticism and discussion and compromise. So, please stop fighting and come on out of your trench. This isn't a war. Let's talk about it sensibly. Johnvr4 (talk) 01:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Red Hat draft

I've made some notes about my reactions to your draft at my talkpage. Honestly the article doesn't hang together as it is; there are too many barely-related subjects in it (in my view, eg there's no need for a separate section about Japanese research involvement, merely one sentence in some relevant section.) Buckshot06 (talk) 19:39, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

The J-research was part of the link to Okinawa in the Korean War BW allegations. I had moved some of it to my sandbox2 and other parts to Allegations of biological warfare in the Korean War and condensed some more. You are correct in that it will need more condensing. Assertions that Red Hat chemicals came to Okinawa without the knowledge of Japan's policy makers was the initial purpose for the section after as with similar to the assertions about knowledge of US nukes. Harris tied that together with the subsequent US research leading to Project 112 and also with insects and crops. Johnvr4 (talk) 03:04, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Recent edit to Operation Red Hat

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. I noticed that you removed some content from Operation Red Hat without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; I restored the removed content. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you! CAPTAIN RAJU ^(✉) 20:19, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Red Cap

Why don't you split out Red Cap as a completely separate article? Happy New Year Buckshot06 (talk) 16:29, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

I may need to that at some point. I am not sure how it everything fits together with a solid distinction between Red Hat and Red CAP, alleged "Waterfall," and Project 112 given the descriptions in the limited sources available and I can't seem to find the actual published articles from Vietnam or in Sweden. I currently only have the transcript of interview and a final draft copy of the Marlowe article. Given the controversy over OP Tailwind which did briefly mention but did not address Cambodia allegations and also the DTC test (Project112) there is that the Project 112 name was still sort of classified during the Tailwind dispute (I still need to verify that), I am not sure how a stand-alone Red Cap article would go over at this point and it may be premature to move it. I'll need more help with the MOS but I've been doing some rearranging in the organization of the draft and hope that it will make a bit better sense when I'm done and the parts that obviously don't belong will stand out. Johnvr4 (talk) 17:25, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

February 2017

Your recent editing history at Beacham Theater shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:01, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

User:Beetstra I already warned you about an edit war. You can't come back and warn me in revenge. Johnvr4 (talk) 15:15, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Wrong interpretation, this is not revenge, this is WP:3RR, a bright line. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:16, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

You violated 3RR when I first warned you and 3RR does not apply to correcting mistakes. Clearly you are mistaken given the edit summaries of the entry and discussion on your page. Johnvr4 (talk) 15:19, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

3RR does not apply to correcting mistakes That's simply incorrect. Could you please self-revert and work to find someone that agrees with your viewpoints about the links? --Ronz (talk) 15:26, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

No, I did not violate 3RR, I removed once, you reverted, I reverted again. This was not a mistake, it was a reasoned removal in accordance with our policies and guidelines. That may be an edit war, it is not 3RR. You are now really at the verge of 3RR.

I suggest, per Ronz, that you revert yourself and then find consensus for the inclusion. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 15:33, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Are you counting my good faith efforts to change the actual links as Reverts for 3RR? Wasn't the sub-page that the links were pointing your concern? Johnvr4 (talk) 16:00, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm hoping you will put aside the need to try to find ways around 3RR, and instead try to gain consensus. --Ronz (talk) 18:18, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

This was my mistake as 3RR does in fact include edits and reverts to different material in the count. Johnvr4 (talk) 18:03, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for edit warring, as you did at Beacham Theatre. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may request an unblock by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Ad Orientem (talk) 20:34, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Do not continue to reinsert material that has been challenged by multiple editors w/o talk page consensus. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:35, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Johnvr4 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

This is excessive and the issue is currently under three separate discussions where I've asked that links not be modified until the discussion was over. Please at least unblock to continue those talk page discussions. *here:User talk:Beetstra #edit war at Beacham Theatre *here:ELN #Beacham Theatre *and now here:Talk:Beacham Theatre #In line external links There is not yet even consensus about which link or links the discussion is referring to! Now not one editor will even point to a specific link of concern to discuss. My questions and requests for clarification are being ignored. The fact is that the involved editor that I reverted refused to open a talk page section at the entry and has not explained a valid position or counter-argument for his deletions. He was engaged in his own edit war which I warned him about and he violated 3RR but that is no excuse for my own violation to correct what I thought and still think is a mistake and misunderstanding of the WP:EL policy. I was already refraining from more edits of the link materiel. My last revert was not at all related to the contested links. During the next 24 hours had I hoped to make the position obvious in further discussion. The absurd part is that the material I re-inserted is not even the same material being challenged as each link was modified to address the concerns as explained in the edit summaries! Only one or possible two of the links that the editor and others have now deleted has not been modified after the concerns were raised. The External links in the external links section that are being complained about and the links being deleted are not pointing to the same sub-page are not even to the same material as they previously were. There is no valid dispute about the updated links. These links are not controversial and comply with WP policy. The dispute was about the format of prior links and certain editors not understanding the well-established exceptions to those WP:EL policies Each link was modified per WP policy, it is justified and what was reinserted is not even the same materiel. There was no valid reason to delete the links in the first place as shown in in the edit summaries or discussions. Consensus is based on the validity of the argument rather than voting. Please consider the abnormal discussion processes that I had to use to understand and rectify such concerns and try to follow them as well as the content of the discussion in determining consensus or edit warring violations. It isn't super clear because it is now in three places and would take a lot of time to review and is very likely more than an administrator would want to deal with. Please understand this is not my fault and I was in the process of clarifying concerns when I was blocked. Now this is a catch-22 where I can't very clearly express that to other editors that I'm in discussion with or to an administrator trying to review it. Thank you for this consideration of this matter. Johnvr4 (talk) 22:14, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Accept reason:

I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here. But if there is anymore re-adding challenged material w/o crystal clear consensus you will be blocked again, probably for more than 24 hrs. Ad Orientem (talk) 23:24, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

At this point you seem unable to acknowledge that no one agrees with your perspective, and that consensus is unlikely to change. I suggest you move on, as your repeated dismissals of others' comments are difficult to see as good faith efforts to work collaboratively and constructively with other editors. --Ronz (talk) 16:49, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Put forth a quality argument. That is all. Johnvr4 (talk) 16:52, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I was in the process of removing my comment when you responded.

I didn't notice the closure at COIN, and don't want to be seen as piling on. My apologies. --Ronz (talk) 16:54, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

No problem and thanks for the apology. Can you please understand I am not intending to promote and am receptive to modification of each link or removal per policy concerns? There was a logical reason for each link and perhaps the policy was not well understood. Let's get this done and move on. We are arguing about BS. I self-reported to Coin to clear my name.

For the offline archives of material would the creation of a list work? Johnvr4 (talk) 17:08, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I am not intending to promote I didn't intend to convey that interpretation. SOAP problems, at least those that don't result in a quick block/ban/etc, aren't about whether or not anyone is trying to promote anything but rather the difference between content that is encyclopedic in nature versus content that is "propaganda, advertising and showcasing". Sometimes it's difficult to distinguish. In this case, I'm not clear what source even verifies what related content there is in the article, so it's difficult to judge, but almost impossible to make a strong case for inclusion. --Ronz (talk) 17:25, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I'll rephrase. The addition of the rollo art pic did not promote rollo. The replacement link for the whole piece did not promote anything either. That particular link does not verify anything. It is Ferguson, Jason; Le-Huu, Bao (July 2, 2013) Dance dance revolution that verifies.

Then and now: Orlando’s legendary EDM culture is a companion to the cited source and provides reader with reliable info about the subject that can't otherwise be used in the article because of copyright.

Note: I am not trying to bypass WP:EL nor abandon my previous arguments with the suggestion to create a list. WP:LWA (WP:LWA#External link spamming) The primary purpose of external links from Wikipedia articles is to provide users with sources of additional reliable information about the topic.

My opinion and my previous editing was make the direct link to the rollo art pic as that would in my opinion gave the reader the most (but not all) the info with the least amount of clicks while still retaining all the links to the rest of Then and now: Orlando’s legendary EDM culture as compared to this link to the whole piece [2]. Johnvr4 (talk) 18:01, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Link to external links discussion: WP:External_links/Noticeboard/Archive_19#Beacham_Theatre (closed) Johnvr4 (talk) 18:50, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Orlando's Summer of Love

An article that you have been involved in editing—Orlando's Summer of Love—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 17:49, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ahecht, I've added a crap load of sources to review for notability. We probably do not need all of them at this time so I will leave it in your capable hands to whittle them down and merge/redirect if that is the correct path going forward. I also was not sure of the title. Thank you for your help. Johnvr4 (talk) 18:01, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Air defense interceptors/Genie

I've reviewed every source you propose for the paragraph below, and still cannot find any mention of air defence interceptors. Which of the four sources you cite has this wording?

In the event of mass air penetration by an enemy attacking Okinawa, air defense interceptors stood ready to scramble with nuclear warhead tipped missiles that were kept on alert status. Buckshot06 (talk) 17:13, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Buckshot06, thanks for the message. since i did not see it after a quick look, "Genie" was probably just a statement of fact but possible syn as it was a very simple process of elimination~the nukes that F-100 & F-106 carried.

"Interceptor is mentioned here (#16 on p.6-7). it would be "#4 CDI" in your message and I had just added it to the entry (probably just as you left your note). I also added some more support for other contested material which I hope is now sufficient. Johnvr4 (talk) 17:24, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

There are two problems with using that CDI source (apart from listing four refs, three of which don't support the sentence). 1) we're not certain that the base in question was Okinawa (which is why me and Hohum keep removing that other paragraph). 2) You've converted 'could carry nuclear-armed missiles' into *did* carry nuclear-armed missiles. The CDI source says that the interceptors 'could' carry nuclear-armed AAMs. Your phrasing in the article has always been along the lines of 'nuclear-armed interceptors *stood* ready for scrambling' -- implying that they *did* carry the weapons. You need a source for nuclear-armed interceptors standing ready for scrambling on Okinawa, and until you provide that, I've remove the paragraph again. Buckshot06 (talk) 17:33, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

We don't need to be certain about Okinawa as the section is titled suspected! and that is why I'll keep putting it back in...

I did not convert could to did. Do not make me pull out quotes! I don't have time for such silliness. No one does. If you cant or won't read the sources, I'll keep putting it back in. An edit war will ensue and your failure to read sources or discuss until now...and assertions (like those above) about the alleged lack of a similar passage in sources will be your huge problem. So I'm going to formally warn you now.

Stop and review the sources that you've said you already reviewed. If you had done so, we would not be having this discussion!

"Alert" (armed, fueled, sitting on apron, with a pilot sitting in the seat or nearby) and the nuke bunkers and hangers for the alert interceptors are still at Naha airport. ::::Johnvr4 (talk) 18:10, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

I have reviewed the sources. Nothing says that nuclear-armed interceptors were sitting alert at Naha; that's why I talked about could vs did from the CDI source. I've gone as far as I can by finding the squadrons and the aircraft involved (16th and 82nd FISs) and putting a sentence in. 'Suspected' simply does not cut it on Wikipedia; if it's not verifiable it shouldn't be here.

What's your personal involvement with this? I'm intrigued; how do you know the hangers are still there - or were there in the first place? Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 18:25, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Anyone traveling to the Naha airport can see it of can look on goolge earth and see it in plain sight or they could use their device to verify Naha Air Base was the interceptor base back then and that the Japanese are still there on alert. Or to it could be used to look at one of the cited sources that says F-100 and nukes on Okinawa... Apparently you are the only one who cant do that. Still!

You've stated a few times that, "I have reviewed the sources" and that the support is not in there~ nonsense!

I've repeatedly warned you that you really must review those sources before making that assertion again. Your assertions now imply a certain lack credibility and your lack of competence with this material and reading the verifiable sources supporting it is painfully obvious.

I took out Naha but I could put it back and add Kadeda and South Korea too! I guess I'll just have to put those all quotes in here so other every other editor can see what happened with these totally false assertions and all those faulty edits based on them for the rest of forever. Johnvr4 (talk) 19:03, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

"US military went on full alert deploying F-100 fighters armed with nuclear weapons from Kadena AB on Okinawa to Kunsan, South Korea as well as preparing for strikes against Mainland China from all bases."

"With this in mind, in 1954 the U.S. brought hydrogen-bomb armed F-100 fighter-bombers to its key hub in the Pacific, Kadena Air Base in Okinawa — the first of thousands of nuclear weapons that it would station on the island before their removal in 1972 (see accompanying stories)."

"1950s and 60s F-100 Super Sabre served as primary interceptor...could carry nuclear capable air-to-air missiles. Was carrying one on Jan 18, 1959 at one of four Pacific bases (&Okinawa etc.)....on a reveted hardstand...ground alert configuration...weapon on left wing"

"In 1954, the U.S. brought hydrogen-bomb armed F-100 fighter-bombers to its key hub in the Pacific, Kadena Air Base in Okinawa — the first of thousands of nuclear weapons that it would station on the island before their removal in 1972." Johnvr4 (talk) 22:35, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for these Johnvr4. Clearly 'interceptor' isn't referenced. I will remove the words 'interceptor' etc, which are not tied definitively to Okinawa, and substitute 'hydrogen-bomb-armed'. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:50, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Just a temp edit to say I found 2 refs for found genie and will modify and update in morning. One ref is called "umbrella" I think Johnvr4 (talk) 05:30, 20 March 2017 (UTC).

• "Contingency plans existed in 1967 for deployment of the Genie air-to-air missile to Japan. Although the Genie missile is dual-capable, the documents clearly identify the missiles that would be deployed under these contingencies as nuclear missiles. This represents the first association of nuclear-armed Genie missiles with Japanese deployment. The details of the contingencies under which the missiles would be deployed remain classified." This source talks all about alert status --even after 1972 in Japan!

• "The Genie in Wartime would carry a nuclear warhead... Forty-one Hoosier-based airmen are, knocking "enemy planes" out of the Skies above the Gulf of Mexico with explosive accuracy to prove they are defenders from sneak air attacks. The 41 career airmen, members of the 319th Interceptor Squadron F-102 Delta Daggers, F-104 Star Fighters and F-10O Super Sabers. Fliers of these planes came to the meet from such distant USAF bases as Naha AFB, Okinawa."

For "interceptor" please see interceptor aircraft, scrambling (military), Ground-controlled interception, North American F-100 Super Sabre, F-106, F-104, or 319th Fighter Interceptor Training Squadron all of which use the word interceptor without any of the qualms or issues you are having with using it.

I'm going to move this discussion to the subject talk page. Other editors are complaining that reverts are taking place without discussion. Johnvr4 (talk) 14:06, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Discussion Moved to Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan's_southern_islands#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie

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Apparent POV

I write to give you the opportunity to clarify this edit. Why are you calling this source dubious when you youself introduced it and cited it repeatedly, previously? Why is the paragraph I summarised now suddenly dubious? What are you writing in your edit summary about Neither Confirm Nor Deny when the issue at hand is actually the reason for weapons withdrawal from Japan (and Taiwan and the Philippines)? Please avoid introducing an anti-United States Department of Defense point of view into the article; this is forbidden by our WP:FIVEPILLARS. Buckshot06 (talk) 16:28, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

The source is good however it is your use of it to reach dubious conclusions that is concerning. Your conclusion about the Terrorists and Removed in 1972 is disputed by that source and others and my concern is already explained in the edit summary and at the talk page. The edit summary is: "source: "The motivation behind the NCND was the increasing need to fend off queries from foreign governments – rather than protecting against terrorists and Soviet military planning"

It you want to edit that page, then you need to watch the talk page and participate in discussion there. As you well know, the section that addresses that particular editing is here: Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan's_southern_islands#Faulty_edit_RS_vs._undue_weight

Quote:

"The paragraph you cite above, "With the reversion of Okinawa" etc forms para 6 of Kristensen's article. The very next para, para 7, begins "Although nuclear weapons were removed from Okinawa in the late 1970s" which I believe substantiates the generally held belief at the time. Thus nuclear weapons were removed in 1972, it seems, though forces on Okinawa (possibly the 18 TFW) may have been held at some level of nuclear alert state for other reasons -- possibly ready to employ nuclear weapons which would have arrived during transition-to-war. Cheers Buckshot06 (talk) 04:20, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

"Perhaps they never left in 1972 or perhaps they were brought back after- I haven't looked for clarification. From Kristensen, some "were removed in 1972" and some were removed from Okinawa in the late 1970s. [“Secret” 1965 Memo Reveals Plans to Keep U.S. Bases and Nuclear Weapons Options in Okinawa After Reversion] Johnvr4 (talk) 14:26, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

What anti-DoD position(s) are you accusing me of introducing exactly?

"If you think for one second that you are going to edit about controversial issues in Okinawa without presenting the majority and minority viewpoints in our sources then you are going to have much larger problems. So, I insist that you fully elaborate on your alleged concern and the appropriate WP:FIVEPILLARS policy that you believe is relevant to that concern! Johnvr4 (talk) 18:15, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

And concerns about vulnerability to terrorist attack were apparently a primary issue. Stop removing mention of that from the article!! Kristensen says this, and you've not introduced any other section of Kristensen that says he contradicts himself, or any other source that terrorist attacks were not a concern. This was clearly not all about sovereignty. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:18, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

In addition, again, a 1965 memo does not prove that weapons were retained on the island after 1972: you need a separate good source, and Kristensen examined all the available sources and concluded they were removed circa 1972!! Another source you found yourself said that Japan was asked to fund complete withdrawal of the weapons c.1972!! It's like saying that the U.S. plan to retain four large bases in Iraq c.2009-10 shows that the bases (Balad etc) were retained after OND finished, when in fact everything left the country!! Buckshot06 (talk) 06:53, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I told you there might be contradictory reliable sources. Didn't I? And I have NO IDEA what your anti-DoD accusation entails but it sounds ridiculous on the face of it.

Understand that I am not disputing that Kristensen talks about terrorists. But, Kristensen later offers more information about "terrorist threat" and you apparently stopped reading the source too early. Per my edit summary(S), I (for now) am disputing your interpretation of what Kritensen is saying about terrorists versus the reason for removal. There is no doubt Kristensen mentions terrorists and that guards weren't set up for them. The interpretation I got from that source was that the threat was related to the neither confirm nor deny policy which itself was related to plausibly deniable to all nations including the host country to allow transit even after reversion which itself was related to nukes in Japan in the 1950s (J-sovereignty). The US would rely on secret agreements they already had in their possession. Like I explained, we need to explore this further and talk about it -But please let's do it on the article's talk page. (*note: The nuke removal and the gas removal were negotiated at same time, Japan was made to pay. Some Gas was stolen from a depot in Okinawa).

That is my concern, previously expressed- repeatedly, your removal of tags and reinsertion of the material without a new look at the source as I requested or further discussion (again) is edit warring. Lets move the conversation to the talk page and explore it there. I thought we made good effort yesterday. Please don't ruin it. I suggest proposing edits and expressing your concerns clearly.

I think we'll get a lot more done by discussing proposed edits. Johnvr4 (talk) 13:30, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I've made a place for this material if you choose to pursue it. Japan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction# Terrorism_and_Japan Johnvr4 (talk) 14:20, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I hope you've read the valuable advice BrownHairedGirl wrote at her talkpage. Your writing is non-neutral and based on OR (PRIMARYSOURCES), and your conduct is frankly somewhat worse than bad. When you are fighting to keep allegations in a section amply stuffed of U.S. military misjudgement and errors, which speak for themselves, you're too close to the subject. If I could offer some advice, I'd step away from the computer, avoid editing for 48 hours, and consider whether you need to make your undoubtedly worthy contributions where you can write polemics (because there's lots of value in polemics on U.S. military misbehaviour, and you do live in a democracy. You might just change opinions, or, if you're very lucky, policy).

But if you wish to continue on this site, you need to take very serious account of her numbered advice, especially point 1 - which reflects how many times I have referred you to WP:OWN. Otherwise, though it might not be me (I'm frankly sick of trying to shepherd you) you will face administrator intervention again at some point, because what you're writing and how you're writing it breaches our rules. Buckshot06 (talk) 05:04, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I read it and thanked her. Perhaps you should read it again because you have utter confuse IS with WAS. User:BrownhairedGirl wrote of the original article deletion and conduct from 2013 when I was a rookie editor and did not understand a lot of policies (including the RSN). She stated that read nothing but the initial deletion and made no comment on the draft or anything of sort about new edits that you are blatantly mis-representing here. You sir are not only fighting over your POV, you are edit warring over highly dubious content because you continue to refuse to address my concerns just as you have with the issue I brought forth just above. Frankly I am tired the behavior too. Tired is not even the word for it. Make sure you address the my concern if you put that terrorist material back in the main space. I will take you to task over it.

Closed. Moving to Talk:U.S. nuclear weapons in Japan's southern islands Johnvr4 (talk) 12:09, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Electronic music#Sub-project EDM

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Electronic music#Sub-project EDM as a participant of WP:WikiProject Electronic music. - TheMagnificentist 13:42, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

MfD debate

At Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRedHat I have nominated your stale userpage for deletion. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 02:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

John, should you wish to contest the deletion, you need to make the arguments at the above linked page. Removing the tag from the page is specifically disallowed at WP:DPAFD. Removing the template from the page in question will not stop the process- the closing admin will merely make one more step. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 07:19, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Thankyou for coming to the MfD page to put your side of the story. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:30, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for straight up lying in that MfD.

And I quote: "The user has not condensed the material."

Please compare both of the two pages you nominated and try to convince anyone that the material was not condensed (or that you didn't know it was)! I have your quotes and diffs and justifications for mass deletions as well as all the sources to prove those assertions and justifications wrong. I warned you to stay away from me. But why are you were unable to tell the honest truth?

All of the material in Talk:U.S. nuclear weapons in Japan came straight out of that huge draft only because I had condensed it out of my sandbox!!

Go ahead and tell other editors that you aren't lying when you say "The user has not condensed the material" and then look at this edit summary:

[as edited by Johnvr4 at 14:29, 17 March 2017 (Creation. moved from my sandbox)].

There are several more lies in your assertions. You sicken me!!! Johnvr4 (talk) 01:48, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

Possibly I should have explained myself more clearly. The implied additional clause in 'The user has not condensed the material" is 'to produce an article that meets the requirements of WP:ARTICLE' etc. To produce a coherent text on a single topic. I thought that was obvious. Yes, of course you were tinkering with the draft. I could see that. Let me copy out a couple of texts from what I wrote at Mark Arsten's talkpage:

(1)"My strong view on the article deleted in 2011, shared by others, was that it was too long and too disconnected. If we two together allow ourselves to focus on that, there is a much stronger likelihood of more of your draft seeing mainspace. Please go back and take a look at WP:ARTICLE if you like, about what kind of subjects normally hang together coherently for Wikipedia purposes."

(2)"Your draft as it [stood] has no 'golden thread' - single argument traceable from beginning to end. It's not a coherent article addressing one issue - instead it conflates, confusingly, multiple issues of which many arguably really don't address the core topic. That's why when I started editing the original article several years ago I was excising multiple chunks of text. That is my overall concern." Buckshot06 (talk) 08:37, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

..and from PMC at the review: "the draft had not been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace." Buckshot06 (talk) 08:39, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

No joke you should have explained it. I thank you for trying to do that, Now that you did, let us explore whether your assertions bear any relationship to the honest truth.

First what you deleted was not an "Article". It was a work in progress userspace draft that was almost but not quite ready to publish- as was explained to you dozens of times!

And I quote: "MfD debate: At Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRedHat I have nominated your stale userpage for deletion. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 02:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)...

Put simply, it is not WP:Stale and I proved it. Yet, YOU KNEW IT WAS NOT STALE BEFORE YOU EVER NOMINATED IT!!! see: "Yes, of course you were tinkering with the draft."

Next, your assertions are full of ridiculous garbage.

I produced and added to several articles from that draft material and you know it! Articles such as these examples that came straight out of my Sandbox: U.S. nuclear weapons in Japan or United States military anti-plant research and similar.

(1)Your strong views are faulty and by your own statements are based solely upon your own stated lack of understanding, failure to read reliably cited sources, and reliance on "your advanced degrees" (Do you want the diffs and quotes?). Where I have simply asked you to simply read the sources to form your views, you have refused. I have strong views too but the difference between our views is that my views have come from the reliable sources that are cited and yours are not supported by those sources.

(2) The Golden thread is Japan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#U.S._weapons_of_mass_destruction_and_Japan

...which you were already also WELL AWARE OF! Talk:Japan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Merging_.26_splitting_proposals

Ah, "the core topic." You have made many statements of what you believe the "core topic is." You've stated your believe that it is simply the 1971 move from Okinawa to Johnson Island and nothing more but that is NOT what the reliable sources say. Is it?

Multiple "chunks of texts have been moved by me out of the draft and into their own articles PER YOUR SUGGESTION and now you are falsely claiming the material was not being condensed and was not suitable for the main space. So, how can you make such blatantly easily dis-proveable false assertions? If that is truly your honest belief then please explain what the following articles are then??

U.S. nuclear weapons in Japan or this United States military anti-plant research or any of the other linked main articles listed here? Japan and weapons of mass destruction

Do you really expect anyone to believe your assertions that you were somehow unaware of where the my sandbox material went to or where those articles that you ridiculously fought over came from Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan? No reasonable person could ever believe that you weren't very well aware that the draft material had been moved to the main space! Your assertions defy logic.

It seems to be an apparently a blatant lie rather that an simple difference of opinion or dispute over known provable facts. I say that only because you know full well the assertions are misleading, inaccurate, or untrue. That is the reason I am pointing out to other editors the misrepresentations are potentially dishonest. With these assertions, you appear not to be a credible person.

All of that "excising multiple chunks of text" that you have done in the past is a problem. Reliable sources that tie each those chunks that you deleted to Red Hat are in those references. Yet, because they do not fit with you stated (faulty) understanding, you delete them.

Case in point, you put the draft up for Mfd the draft 1.5 hours after I added a source that disproved your understanding that linked Red hat with Agent Orange. And yesterday you deleted another important cited reference from my sandbox4 that stated "The testers detonate sarin-filled 155mm artillery shells to study how the nerve agent disperses in a tropical jungle. The Pentagon confirms the "Red Oak" program in November 2002."[3]

Going back to 2011 when you bit the newcomer and deleted the original page, That reference completely disproved one of the idiotic assertions that got the article deleted in 2011- yet at the same time you assert that it is has the same problems from before...because you seem to delete any reference or text with a reference that clearly shows your lie. Please understand that was YOU that resurrected several of the problems that got it deleted. Also Note that It had problems I was not responsible for (yet I got blamed for "cooking stuff up") and you restored those very problems. But we've already talked about that didn't we and you are also very well aware of that conversation... Yet you are still making the false assertions about that draft... Do you want to try to challenge any of the highly accurate assertions I have just made about your actions?? Johnvr4 (talk) 15:52, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Red Hat content

I have deleted your sandbox under G4 because it was a copy/paste recreation of an article deleted by a correct deletion discussion. Please don't recreate it again without going through deletion review. You risk being blocked for disruptive behavior if you keep this up. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 15:43, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Waiting for a reply here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Premeditated_Chaos#Deletion_of_userspace_material Johnvr4 (talk) 15:47, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

The deleting editors concern was with only the userfied version with the edit histories and not the updated, improved, condensed, version, reedited, version with all new sources that was in my sand box and updated 1.5 hours before it was nominated for deletion. I will restore it because I am still improving it. Johnvr4 (talk) 05:56, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

I have deleted your new sandbox4 under Wikipedia:CSD G4, in accordance with the MfD, User_talk:Premeditated_Chaos#Deletion_of_userspace_material, and PMC's first re-deletion of your re-created sandbox. This is the second time you've promptly recreated deleted material in direct opposition to policy. Use the proper process (WP:DRV). Should you have any other questions, refer to the last lines of PMC's views at his talkpage:

"...the problems that caused the material to be deleted in mainspace are still present in the userfied copy, and my close specifically reflects that with the statement that the draft had not been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace. Your failure or refusal to understand what people have been telling you about this material for literal years is verging on "I didn't hear that" territory." ... "Please take your concerns to deletion review so that neutral editors can review the MfD closure. I am confident that they will confirm that it was correct and in-process." Buckshot06 (talk) 09:55, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

"The problems that caused the material to be deleted in the main space..." Which problem do you believe was not been addressed? Be very specific!

The main problems were that I was accused of was the interpretation of primary docs. I didn't not interpret anything from those docs. I carefully stated easily verifiable facts from those sources and six years later and there are numerous published rock-solid reliable sources that that cite those docs and state exactly what I did six years ago.

Next was the often repeated inaccurate complaint that "there is nothing in the article that connects this project (be it Project 112, Dugway PG, herbicides, nuke accidents, SE Asia, etc. allegations) with Operation Red Hat". All those subjects are directly related and reliable sources show that. So which subjects relationship to Red Hat are you challenging and which source is being disputed?

Let's look at them...Various subjects and the Red Hat military operation: environmental contamination, public deception, military defoliants,.” anti-crop agents, biological warfare research, Project 112, even covert U.S. national security sites, surveillance, military occupation and forced leasing of civilian-owned land...

Each subject has added to the controversy surrounding the history of weapons of mass destruction formerly kept on the island.

And this example: <Shimabukuro, Ryota (August 8, 2012). "U.S. military storage of Agent Orange in Okinawa". Ryukyu Shimpo. Retrieved August 18, 2017.>

Here is a direct quote from that article: "The relationship between Agent Orange and Operation Red Hat is indicated."

Yet, when I updated the draft that source, only 1.5 hours later you nominated it for MfD and complain that it still has the same problems and that it was abandoned when of course by your own admission you knew full well that it was not abandoned and the information in the drafts was valuable!!

Then you did the same exact thing after the addition of this source was added confirming Red Oak/ tropical test of sarin in my Sandbox 4 that another editor stated was my synthesis.

What gives? Johnvr4 (talk) 22:22, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

References

Reasons for deletion of your sandbox

Just to try and make it crystal clear about the reasons your drafts were deleted; I may have created some misunderstanding by using the word 'stale' in when I advised you of the MfD. If I've created such confusion I do apologise. MfD says without improvement to address the concerns that resulted in their deletion at AfD while and WP:FAKEARTICLE says "Userspace is not a free web host and should not be used to indefinitely host pages that look like ...your preferred version of disputed content. It was disputed content (WP:FAKEARTICLE) that had not been sufficiently improved to address the concerns that resulted in their deletion at AfD (WP:MfD). The result was that the drafts would not have been policy-compliant in mainspace (PMC conclusions). I'm not trying to pick a scab here, I hope by writing this that I can convey exactly why the drafts were deleted. Buckshot06 (talk) 05:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Your comment above has entirely proven my position that your entire MfD nomination was a stupid waste of time. Johnvr4 (talk) 13:54, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Recreation warning

I have deleted the version of User:Johnvr4/sandbox you re-created a little while ago, per Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2017 August 30. Do not recreate this. I know you disagree with the deletion decision, and you disagree with the review that decision got, but the community has spoken. If you create it again, you will be blocked from further editing. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

So this amounts to a topic ban? Simply because you refused to read my views at DRV? That is not what the goal of Wikipedia nor how consensus is determined! Johnvr4 (talk) 13:38, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Ignoring of views at DRV closure

I came to WP:DRV for these reasons:

1. if someone believes the closer of a deletion discussion interpreted the consensus incorrectly;
2. if a speedy deletion was done outside of the criteria or is otherwise disputed;
3. if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;
4. if a page has been wrongly deleted with no way to tell what exactly was deleted; or
5. if there were substantial procedural errors in the deletion discussion or speedy deletion.

Not one single concern I raised was addressed by User:RoySmith's response :

"Johnvr4's userspace pages – Endorse. Ignoring the WP:WALLOFTEXT from the nom, there's strong consensus here to endorse the deletion of these state (sic) user drafts. – -- RoySmith (talk) 12:47, 6 September 2017 (UTC)"

Johnvr4 (talk) 16:48, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

• Johnvr4 i have tried to help you in the past. Please take my advice, and instead of keeping this stuff in your userspace, please keep it on your desktop, or if having it online is important to you, you can store it in googledocs or any number of other places. The community has said that it isn't appropriate, and although you don't agree, fighting that clear consensus is only to your detriment and is bad for the community - as continuing to deal with this takes up yet more time, on an issue that the community has already invested a lot of time in. Jytdog (talk) 19:25, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Thx for the note Jytdog. I know you've tried to help and we ending up disagreeing over what the brand new reliable sources present too -sort of over the same issues with Buckshot06. I think I got this but I DO need to present it better because I'm learning some of these polices as I go. I could use a lot help an experienced peer guidance with the more formal DRV and ANI processes.

It not a matter of having material online. It's a matter my improvements to WP being thwarted by one editor and of how that editor User:Buckshot06 lied about nearly everything he presented, as well as how any consensus supporting his faulty assertions was reached-- by ignoring my concerns! My dad is dying currently, I've stated at the beginning this whole thing buckshot06 presented is a bullshit waste of time and now that I and everyone else has wasted so much time on this absurdity despite early on my warnings is simply too bad. I'll see those improvements to that article trough and unfortunately there is no other way to do that without exposing Buckshot06 unwarranted harassment and near-pathological misrepresentations to other administrators. It's not an attack on him and attacking that administrator is not my purpose in challenging him. My assertions are simply recapped factual events with the diffs and proof and quotes that completely disprove nearly everything he has said in his nominations for deletion. Johnvr4 (talk) 20:18, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to take the liberty of intruding here because this is not a formal discussion forum for anything. John, you say the consensus was against deletion of the material, but actually at the DRV, it was you arguing for retention of the pages, while everybody else said they should be moved off Wikipedia. Can you not see this? That was also the reason why the MfD closed as delete, and the originally AfD of June 2013 closed as delete. So the community has decided - three times - that the material is not fit for Wikipedia. Can you see this? Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 20:23, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Please DO NOT come here to be a jackass here too. The sandbox material was redeveloped and you know it. Your assertions to the contrary are purposeful lies which I have proven-easily (and will again).

Your own words thoroughly dispute all the assertions in your latest message ans I have explained to you why IAR applies to your harassment months ago. We had a content dispute. Can you see the policies you presented are utter nonsense and YOU YOURSELF argued that WP:STALE did not apply while I and EVERY SINGLE OTHER commenter except PMC said STALE was the operative rule. Can you not see that? Johnvr4 (talk) 20:40, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Again, WP:FAKEARTICLE and others were the operative rule: "Userspace is not a free web host and should not be used to indefinitely host pages that look like ...your preferred version of disputed content." The community decided that your content was not fit for the mainspace. It got deleted, and thus the material in your userspace was your preferred version of deleted content. That's why the MfD closed as delete. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 20:46, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Jonvr, I get it that you are unhappy with the consensus discussion. You appealed it already, and whatever happened, that didn't succeed. At this point you really should let it go. It is not good for you or anyone else for you to persist. I won't bother you further on this; I just noticed what is going on and don't want to see you self-destruct over this. You will end up indefinitely blocked if you do, probably. Jytdog (talk) 20:55, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Request to block you at AN/I

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. I have concluded that your behaviour and actions on this site are not helpful to the overall cause of improving the encyclopedia, and thus at AN/I I have requested that you be blocked. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 21:04, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Cool, you beat me to it. I was just about to open one on you but had to run to the vet first. I'll do that now. Johnvr4 (talk) 21:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Please take a step back

John, I really sincerely have no desire to see you blocked. I very rarely desire to see anyone blocked and you are no exception. But I don't know what else the community can do with regards to your total obsession with Red Hat-related topics. I feel like anything anyone says to you goes in one ear and right out the other and honestly, sadly, I expect this to be no different. At some point you have to accept the community's decision on things, even if you feel the community is wrong. The enormous amount of material in your deleted pages - it's just too much for an encyclopedia. It's sprawling and overwhelming in a way that Wikipedia articles are not supposed to be. Multiple editors have told you this across many talk pages, as well as the AfD, MfD, DRV, and now the ANI.

Your reaction every time is to say that everything is wrong with everyone else. Every time, the nominators are misrepresenting themselves, or the participants aren't reading things correctly, or the closers in each discussion failed to correctly assess consensus. But how can that possibly be the case when in every instance, particularly the MfD and the DRV, no one spoke up to keep the material or overturn the deletion aside from you? How can every closer be interpreting every consensus wrong when in every discussion, consensus was for the material to be deleted and stay deleted? How many people have to tell you something before you acknowledge that they might not all be wrong, or liars, or maliciously trying to destroy your material?

At some point you have to take a step back and sincerely ask yourself: is everyone wrong? Or am I wrong?

Now is the time to take that step back. Voluntarily take a 6-month Red Hat topic ban. Edit something else, something totally unrelated. Anything else. Species of trees. Philosophy of the Romantic era. Classic novels. Find a pet backlog and clear it. Anything. Put your boundless energy toward moving the encyclopedia forward, please. Show the community that you really are here to build an encyclopedia and let this dead horse die. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:40, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

I thank you for your concern. If you have no desire to topic ban me then why did you propose it? I do not understand. I was on a five month break already (and six months is WP:abandoned). I came to WP to add new sources to the sandbox for a four yr old (bogus) concern and 1.5 hours later it was MfDed with BS06's absurd assertions while I was at my Dad's house who is currently dying and has four months to live!! I do not have time for this absurdity but I refuse bow down to an incompetent bully nor to part with my sandbox draft material over his false assertions. I have worked too hard for years (with new sources) until it has improved to a more acceptable state with appropriate sources. If you or he takes issue, open a content dispute about it! I am only obsessed with Buckshot06 long fixation on separating me from the subject, mass deleting, topic banning, misrepresenting, frustrating and harassing me. It did occur to me I was wrong (and I'm not 100% right). I understand that being right is only half of the battle but he and I cannot collaborate because he simply will not read sources I show him. I had all the links and diffs and new sources to prove every bit of my side but you would not read it. I can't make you determine whether the apparent consensus had even the slightest merit on policy or fact or logic. I was simply forced to go to the next step. His assertions are full of horse excrement (or at least his wagon is and it is hitched up to your horse). He deleted all drafts versions and diffs and I have been sorting it all out as best I could to challenge the false assertions and total deletion as best I could. Please, just look at the differences in drafts or the new sources or how he uses them in his POV version Operation Red Hat! I'm begging you.

I am very concerned that you may be too accepting of Buckshot06s assertions without looking into whether they have even a smidgen of merit. As a friendly warning to you, his reputation will rub off. And it may smell. Please investigate that on your own and find out for yourself if I am wrong before stating on noticeboards or proposals that I am the abuser of facts/sources/noticeboards etc. and that he was correct-about anything. Half the editors at ANI are starting to get it and they've barely started digging. That's a clue to you. They've read it.Johnvr4 (talk) 22:58, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

@PMC, Thank you for the advice if I didn't sent you thanks already. I understand your concerns however my level of enthusiasm is irrelevant since I have actually read the sources and other editors stated very clearly that they didn't. Reviewing reliable sources and editing based on the majority and minority opinions and topics in them Cannot be a disqualifying condition of editing-- and if it were, it would obviously be totally against the spirit and purpose of Wikipedia. Since you very strongly picked a side in that debate, I would like to also politely invite you to the challenge described below. Should you choose to accept the challenge, it whether it is now or in six months, if you fail, you should please agree to restore the drafts. To be clear, we are talking about the draft version that was in my sandbox or in a main page article that I had moved it to. What is the worst that could happen? You could prove me wrong, shut me up, or something might be improved? In the spirit of sportsmanship and my fondness for all things B.C. I would like to extend to you two chances to present a valid concerns that I've made something up for which no reliable source exists. Johnvr4 (talk) 23:07, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

John, you're topic banned. Your restrictions have been made extremely clear to you. End of story. It is genuinely worrying to me that despite the extenuating personal circumstances described below, including what you state is a negative effect on your own health, you immediately returned to the ORH talk page to argue some more. You are damaging your own health for the sake of arguing an internet argument that you will not win.

The community has seen that you cannot edit in this area without displaying disruptive behavior and the fact that you immediately came back to Talk:Operation Red Hat in violation of your topic ban is just confirmation that the community was correct in its assessment. IAR is not a permit to disregard the community's wishes and do whatever you please. Put the stick down and go edit something else that isn't under your topic ban. Anything. I don't care what. I'm not interested in discussing this with you any further, because it is brutally obvious that you will not listen to reason of any sort from anyone. Further to that, I will not respond to any future pings or messages from you addressed to me in any forum. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:22, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Topic Ban Enforced

Johnvr4, as per the discussion at ANI you are hereby topic banned from contributing to or discussing articles regarding either Japan or weapons, broadly construed, anywhere on the English Wikipedia. You may choose to appeal this ban at WP:AN after six months time, which will be March 18, 2018. This ban will also be logged at Wikipedia:Editing restrictions. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:42, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi John. As RickinBaltimore previously stated, the consensus was to topic ban you from topics related to Japan or weapons, broadly construed. I wanted to go over this with you so that you don't violate your topic ban. Here is an example from the section discussing topic bans:

For example, if an editor is banned from the topic "weather", they are not only forbidden to edit the article Weather, but also everything else that has to do with weather, such as:

• weather-related articles and lists, such as Wind and List of weather records, and their talk pages;
• weather-related categories such as all of the categories that are associated with Category:Weather;
• weather-related project pages, such as WikiProject Meteorology and Portal:Weather;
• weather-related parts of other pages, even if the pages as a whole have little or nothing to do with weather: the section entitled "Climate" in the article California, for example, is covered by the topic ban, but the rest of the article is not;
• discussions or suggestions about weather-related topics anywhere on Wikipedia, for instance a deletion discussion concerning an article about a meteorologist, but also including edit summaries and the user's own user and talk pages (including sandboxes).

Now if we apply this to your topic ban of Japan and weaponry, I hope what topics are forbidden to edit or discuss is clear. This is also included on your own user page, talk page and sandboxes. Your primary edited articles like Operation Red Hat, U.S. nuclear weapons in Japan and Japan and weapons of mass destruction and other articles such as this are off-limits now. This also covers anything related to Japan, and any other kinds of weapons not discussed in those articles, which fall under the topic ban's scope. Categories, templates, WikiProjects and discussions like AFD's that have topics related to Japan or weapons, you should avoid. If someone engages you about a topic under the umbrella of your topic ban, kindly tell them you are under your editing restriction and you are unable to. If you have any questions, let me know. Regards, — Moe Epsilon 18:54, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

John, your edit to Talk:Operation Red Hat on 20 September violated your topic ban. Please do not make any further edits to articles related to either Japan or weapons, broadly construed, on the English wikipedia. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

I responded to his question before i even saw the Ban. But now that I did:

All, Our houses (4 of them) were hit by Hurricane Irma (2 of them by the eye wall as well as our agriculture business). We have not had any electricity nor running water for seven days (well pump does will not run on generator) nor at the business which did not have much wind damage but cannot survive for a week without water (even after getting 18 inches of it all at once). It's been in the 90F+ range without relief and by some miracle our power came back after exactly one week and internet was restored today the 9th day). My brother and I almost got into a pre-hurricane duel. I just got back from evacuating to assist my dad who now may have only 2 months to live and we had to call an ambulance for him a few days ago. Upon my return I just was informed that cat was killed by two dogs and was found in my lake and buried by neighbors and now I have to destroy two dogs if animal control doesn't do it because they once tried to attack me and i almost had to shoot them with 911 on the phone when I chased them away and straight at a small child I did not know was there. My new expensive sea wall collapsed and the lake is closed because it got got hundreds thousands of gallons of raw sewage from the the storm due to the power being out at the pump stations. My Mom needs emergency hip replacement surgery tomorrow AM (wed) and hasn't walked in a week. I missed my grandmother's 94 birthday while I was evacuated. I had to wait 3 hours in lines to buy $20 max ration of gas that took a 45min drive just to find all in order to run a generator for the next 8 hours. I noticed the 6-month ban as soon as I turned on my computer and the hounding and ban is affecting my health.

Moe, thank you for attempting to explain a topic ban. I do not understand the reason for the the topic ban because User:buckshot06 and User:Nick-Ds' concerns and assertions raised there were 100% meritless. The were no valid reasons presented to support it, there was no evidence of it, and simple votes do not count. I was able to more that prove my position with diffs and proof and WP policy. I have already not been editing for about six months, and the only edits I've made by (adding two sources) only utterly disproved both yours and Buckshot06 publicly stated faulty assertions.

Do I have questions? Yes I do. You of all editors should know that in your own words at AfD you couldn't even acknowledge the subject of Red Hat is about sarin and Japan and now you are coming here to my talk page and trying to explain to me how these are subjects that I'm banned from?

I'm not sure how well you understand the concept of irony but allow me quote you in responding to something so obvious that it doesn't even need a damn source:

.."Sarin was stored on Okinawa under Project Red Hat"? By your own admission in the previous statement about Okinawa being unmentioned, how is this statement even possible? There is no mention of Okinawa in the reference, so this is wrong... Regards, — Moe Epsilon 17:29, 10 June 2013 (UTC) [4]

Do you not understand that there has never-ever, ever been one reliable source published in the entire history of the world that could remotely support your absurd concern with that statement? ...or any of the others!?!

This whole thing is beyond stupid Moe. I really hope that irony is not lost on you or anyone else. You personally don't seem to be the ringleader but I am being hounded by editors that have zero idea what the subject is--which comes directly from our reliable sources-- and continue to bold face lie in discussion boards all which I have easily proven to be false. You ARE one of of those editors Moe. There is not a single example that an editor could point to as evidence to support the thoroughly idiotic assertions made about me or that draft in those discussions. Please note that both Buckshot06 as well as Nick-D and others asserted numerous times a concern that the there was no common thread to my editing and the result of a such a wide topic ban regarding "Japan" and "Weapons" emanating from such assertions of no common thread is literally calling the sky green.

Frankly, I do not care if there is WP consensus for an absurdity (like whether the earth's sky is green). I would likely continue to state it is blue and rub the reliable sources that support it into any editors faces that couldn't (much like I have had to do with you, Buckshot06 and Nick-D) and will likely have to do that full time in six months given your past concerns and assertions. It's not to make a WP:POINT I just want the unwarranted hounding to stop. Or, during the next six months perhaps I can see what nonsense concerns that you have been expressing or content you've been inserting.

The continuing purposeful idiotic lies from these same editors have been disproved. Do you honestly dispute any of this? Can you point me to even one example that supports any of your concerns? Please never come back to this talk page if you can't because you and those two have been utterly discredited every time you've come anywhere to discuss this issue.

In response to Buckshot's WP:Hounding and in the spirit of Ignoring all rules |diff I will continue improvements to WP where needed.

Now, If you can't find an untruth in MY editing where a source cannot be found to support it would you three (or more) be willing agree to apologize to me and then stay far far away from me and impose a topic ban on yourselves? Simple mix ups do not counts as that content has been edited a lot. You get a chance to direct me to something you that you think is dubious. I will show you a reliable source (or three) and when that is done then each of you (or myself) will agree make NO Edits to WIKIPEDIA for six months.

Hear this, what you and User:Buckshot06 and User:Nick-D all have in common is that you have each stated your REFUSALS TO LOOK AT THE DAMNED SOURCES.

This is a virtual glove slap across your face if you choose to accept it User:Moe Epsilon, User:Nick-D, User:Buckshot06 and any other editor who wants to continue to make untrue assertions about me where they have been asked but were unable to support it.

These are your words Moe: "

Like I said, this is from one reference and there have been 173 references since you've began editing it. Please don't make me go through all of them and see what else you cooked up in your spare time...Regards, — Moe Epsilon 17:29, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

In response to your Personal attack on me when I was new, I told you back then that "What you might think is synthesis is possibly not correctly sourced."

Can you support even one of the assertions you've made? I challenge you to find anything that you think supports yours, BuckShot06's, or Nick-D's assertions in my sandbox draft or a page I've edited. You've accused me of cooking stuff up when you three are the chefs in the kitchen right now standing in front of the oven with a recipe book as we speak!

So, here you have the chance to try to prove anything you said in AfD had merit. Now, I'm challenging each of you to test reliable sources vs your stupid and offensive assertions. Johnvr4 (talk) 22:19, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

John, your further edit to Talk:Operation Red Hat today violated your topic ban for the second time. I have reported you to AN/I at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Violation_of_topic_ban_by_User:Johnvr4. Please do not make any further edits to articles related to either Japan or weapons, broadly construed, on the English wikipedia.

In regard to your statements above about reliable sources, you may wish to closely consider whether or not the documents that you're referring to are WP:PRIMARY sources. We are not allowed to use primary sources for anything but recording uncontroversial statements of fact; any interpretation from those primary sources is disallowed. To do that kind of thing one needs secondary or tertiary sources. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

John, there was a solid, in fact unanimous, consensus (read this link) among the editors who engaged in the ANI discussion that you were to be topic banned as summarised by RickinBaltimore above. You do not get to violate a consensus with IAR as your "get out of jail free" card. Simply because you disagree with the consensus does not mean you get to yell "IAR!" and everyone will just shrug and say "oh well, he involved IAR, best let him get on with it". If you continue along this line, you will be blocked (not by me, I'm not an admin). As a final note, while I know that you want to be debate the content, please do not do so in reply to my comment. That would be a (third) direct violation of your topic ban and a guarantee to get you blocked. Outside of that, then please feel free to ping me. Blackmane (talk) 02:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Blocked

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 181 days for abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

When consensus holds that your edits are not improving the encyclopedia, and when you've been banned from making such edits, invoking IAR is not a basis for doing the edits in question. Nyttend (talk) 02:37, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

2017 Military history WikiProject Coordinator election

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

  16.00

Unblock

This user is asking that his block be reviewed:

Johnvr4 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

Mea culpa: I felt the talk page edit for which I was apparently blocked was necessary. As I’ve explained, the edit was to prevent involved editors from forever deleting the pages edit history that contains the creation of the page and attribution for the editors that edited the content. Edits prior to any edits that I submitted to it are missing. These histories are apparently lost in violation of our policies and pillars.

The editor who blocked me stated that "When consensus holds that your edits are not improving the encyclopedia, and when you've been banned from making such edits, invoking IAR is not a basis for doing the edits in question."

The hiding all diffs prior to my editing on that subject would show that questionable material regarding text about night operations and “of cooking up stuff in my spare time” that individual editors accused me of submitting at AfD is now concealed as well as the number of times and reasons that the page was locked, revived, deleted and revived again by the involved editor. Based upon unfounded assertions of long involved editors, there is now a negative community consensus (such as that I interpret primary sources or that "I cook stuff up in my spare time") associated with my edits which the missing history would reveal I did not submit.

I have to wonder how many times the page has been resurrected by that editor or whether anyone can tell? I wonder why that information is not reflected anywhere in the pages history. Our community has allowed perhaps even encouraged those actions by not looking at the facts or patterns of behavior that I described and topic banning me without merit. I employed IAR to prevent an even larger disruption that is described in policy because it appears to me to be absolutely against one of our community’s pillars.

No small group of involved editors can justify that there is consensus to overrule a policy nor one of our pillars. This apparently has been done numerous times to my submissions by the same editor. The issues with that page history make it impossible to discuss my situation with other involved editors with the diffs and proof that are required in such discussion. The pages history would vindicate me against further false accusations by these same editors and show that specific problems and concerns for which I was blamed that existed at AfD had been corrected prior to MfD and more importantly, that I was not the editor responsible for putting them there in the first place as has been incorrectly asserted by these editors at AfD and after.

That is why I purposely ignored the Ban.

In my view, necessity under the common law (the established law where I live) is very similar to WP:IAR. It doesn’t block an accusation nor an arrest or imprisonment. It is never a “get out of jail free card”. However, necessity defenses prevent any conviction and punishment whenever the situation was not caused by a defendant, they could not accomplish the same objective using a less offensive alternative available to them, and the problem sought to be avoided was more heinous than the unlawful act perpetrated to avoid it.

My understanding

The community agrees that myself and a limited number of editors need to work together but are having a content dispute. Certain involved editors have made claims about content but have thwarted any and all procedures to rectify them. Rather that adhering to established WP policy that could determine consensus, they have raised dubious concerns and then moved every content discussion into a forum that is not set up to determine the validity of content. Consensus of the community is that Content issues should NOT be raised at ANI for the very reasons I have described.

The simple fact is that no editor was able to provide a single example of my alleged edits that were shown to not improve WP. The assertions come from a concerned editor that as I will discuss below who knew the allegations were baseless, and unfounded. These concerns were disputed by the numerous other editors at ANI who reviewed them and who provided well-founded examples (with links) to support the exact opposite opinion.

To restate, not one example has been presented of any edits that I made did not improve Wikipedia.

The community has agreed that determining consensus requires adherence to all WP policies -each of which already have community consensus. Consensus cannot be reached by ignoring our policies. Ignoring WP policy is the definition of Local consensus.

It is impossible to discuss the my WP Block without discussing the (overly broad) Topic Ban (of “Weapons” and “Japan”).

• I understand that I was blocked because I made a 2nd talk page edit during a ban that purposefully ignored two editors that I have shown with specific diffs to have a history of unfounded personal attacks against me and had either less than honest or had purposefully misled the community as described on my talk page

The first edit to that talk page was prior to me knowing about the ban. My second edit explained my first and a third edit explained my second.

What I do not understand

• I am not sure what lesson I am supposed to be learning by my block nor what parts of deleted content are in dispute. That leaves me with no idea of exactly what the community expects me to improve and no way to reassure other editors that my edits won't be problematic.

• I do not understand why I was topic banned- Other than perhaps restoring my sandbox material which was seemingly deleted without application of policy and refusing to listen to certain editors who battled over content without discussion and will not review our sources.

• I do not understand how or why my sandbox draft was deleted seemingly against all WP policy-other than adding new sources reliable to support it 1.5 hours prior to nomination.

• I do not understand how, against all Wikipedia policy, a content dispute can be discussed or resolved without ever discussing that specific content- which has not been done to my knowledge even once- and each time it comes up instead is misrepresented and resolved exclusively in forums that never (or rarely ever) looks at content.

• I do not understand how high quality policy-based arguments with quotes and diffs and examples can be ignored while baseless assertions by one editor can be seconded by other editors that seem too lazy to review them giving merit to obviously baseless assertions that lack the slightest evidence to support or verify it. Each of these issues could be easily dismissed by the briefest view of the edits, diffs, sources, or policies in question at any point. I’ve waited for the larger community to realize what is going with the other editor and decide on what needs to be done but that does not seem to be happening.

Why I do not understand

At MfD, the nominator falsely claimed that my draft material was

1. “my preferred version of disputed content,"
2. that I had not condensed the material, and
3. that no immediate article with the material seemed likely.

However, each one of those assertions was disproved in later discussions and both involved editors knew very well (here as one example) that the sandbox material had been condensed by 1/3 and was being condensed by another 1/3 before it was deleted. Nevertheless, they and others continued to make the assertion that it had not been condensed.

• The MfD closer ignored WP policy with a belief that that a sandbox must be to be main space article policy compliant (which it does not), she invented a non-existent time component that's inconsistent with policy (or a new WP policy), and purposefully ignored each of policy issues I raised in MfD and on her talk page: WP:UD, WP:STALE, WP:ABANDONED, WP:FAKEARTICLE. The community was misled when she said that no policy argument was raised at MfD to retain it despite the indisputable fact each policy is clearly mentioned and/or quoted by me there and it is as plain as day for any editor to read: Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRedHat#Userpage_drafts_of_Operation_Red_Hat (Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRed Hat)

In closing she said that, “No policy argument has been raised for keeping this. Info was rightly deleted at AfD years ago as it is a huge mess of information unrelated to the actual topic, and has never been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace. We're not a webhost for deleted content so it's time for this to go.” ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

It is clear that not one of the concerns raised at MfD actually applied to or was directed at my sandbox draft-which had been reedited and condensed into new articles over the last six months to comply with the concerns of the nominating editor!

User_talk:Premeditated_Chaos/Archive_11#Deletion_of_userspace_material “I agree with the nominator and the other two participants that the problems that caused the material to be deleted in mainspace are still present in the userfied copy, and my close specifically reflects that with the statement that the draft had not been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace.” PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 26 August 2017

As you can see above, the closing editor spoke ONLY of the Userfied copy however, she deleted BOTH the userfied Copy AND my updated sandbox draft. Then she would not clarify any of the perceptions she had about my sandbox draft (contrary to all evidence) in order for me to go forward as her concerns as were applied to my sandbox draft made no sense.

• The MfD closing editor said I should go to deletion review- which I did. However, all of the policy concerns I raised at Deletion Review were also purposefully ignored (the closer went out of their way to close it without reading it and decided that I should not be allowed to fix an errant faulty insertion). There was no hint that the review of the deletion was closed “to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal was applied consistently and fairly.” It was apparently closed out of sheer laziness:

Closure review DRV of JohnVR4 userspace Sandbox drafts “Ignoring the WP:WALLOFTEXT from the nom, there's strong consensus here to endorse the deletion of these stale user drafts. – -- RoySmith (talk) August_30”

It appears that the closer at Deletion Review commented that both drafts were deleted under STALE despite the diffs that showed that My sandbox had been recently edited only 1.5 hours prior to its nomination for deletion as stale or any other application of WP policy – a fact which no editor can argue against!

Quality arguments that are put forth in order to determine consensus- cannot be ignored- which is the reason I feel that we are here. As shown, my Sandbox was edited with additional sources only 1.5 hours before it was was nominated at MfD as WP:STALE. I am not sure which part of the WP:STALE WP policy allows the complete deletion of my sandbox with 170 references without any discussion of content. MfD after a 5 month break and only 1.5 hours after the last edit that improved it with additional sources. I am unsure why I am sanctioned for editing in my sandbox or talk page. The deletion of my sandbox without any ability for me to edit the material was effectively a topic ban after MfD. I see no valid explanation of how that can happen yet that is precisely how my sandbox draft was deleted, repeatedly. MfD looked to be simply a vote or WP:VAGUEWAVE of mostly involved editors.

Therefore, I asked for a review of the MfD determination for specific reasons and every single one of those quality policy arguments (yes, the format was all off) were purposefully ignored by the closer. That is also the reason I ignored the Mfd deletion of my sandbox which I can assume was one reason for the ban (I am unclear how that vote for a ban happened when my power was out for a week that ignored all of the quality arguments in opposition to it.)

The issue to be resolved

I was nominated for the ban by an editor trying resolve really absurd content issues that he cannot overcome in any other way.

There was a content dispute with a deeply involved nominating editor who uses vague policy waves and an utter refusal to review sources to justify battleground editing and has given up on BRD. He removes sourced content to insert his POV. I have had a lot of difficulty with this behavior and it has generated tons of unnecessary discussion to try and fix. The behavior can be described as tendentious editing as shown below.

Instead, my edits are deleted and challenged and endless discussion and countless meritless concerns materialize from thin air followed by the editors refusal to participate in further discussion while he goes to battle over that one word that is clearly present in the source to everyone but him. This has made it impossible to listen to or work with him.

I’ve re-added disputed text based on discussions under [unexplained removal of sourced content] but the editor has even removed the source entirely and continues to remove the sourced text. This has resulted in an apparent Edit war based solely upon his entirely faulty assertions that these words are not in our sources.

There may some type of a mental illness at work here. The disruption on this page over six months is 100% being caused by the involved editor who nominated my submissions for deletion and then nominated to block me.

• The community needs to understand that No editor can legitimately argue that Camp SCHWAB is not in that source!’’

From that source (It's from Japan Times- ): “The document shows that the area off the U.S. Marine Corps’ Camp Schwab in the Henoko district on the east coast of Nago was most suitable for the offshore base, taking into account Okinawa’s geography and weather conditions. It suggested building an offshore landfill facility with a 3,000-meter runway, a large military port and an integrated ammunition bunker capable of storing nuclear weapons.” Discussion: Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Henoko.2F_Schwab.2F_Hansen.2F_nuke_depot.2F_and_relocation_plan

• HE verifies that THIS IS THE ROOT OF OUR PROBLEM:

Here the involved editor exclaims with asterisks and double exclamation points, “*The Sources Do Not State!!*” and makes edits to remove the sourced text.

“Neither mentions the words 'Camp Schwab'. We run with WP:V here, and I am *strictly* paring you back to the details mentioned in the sources you cite. You appear to have a tendency to add material that isn't actually in the cited sources -- evident all the way back to the 2013 deletion debate. If you're going to add primary-source material so heavily, you need to stick quite closely to the sources and not infer or WP:SYNTH from them. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 04:14, 26 March 2017 (UTC)”

07:05, 19 March 2017 (b) new secret depot sentences not sourced [5]

18:53, 9 April 2017 remove discussions about base moves long after nuclear weapons removed [6]

• There are many more interactions just like that one and I am just scratching the surface here…

Any editor can that look at U.S. Nuclear weapons in Japan PAGE HISTORY to see how much sourced content being deleted by that editor and every bit of it seems to be done with dubious reasoning.

Our dispute(s) seemed to mostly resolve around A source that I have asked repeatedly to be reviewed by that editor. The editor refuses to review the sources and battles over the content.

• Concerning an incident at a Pacific base involving an F-100 “interceptor” and the impact of incident on the removal of nuclear weapons from Asia.

ANY other WP editor can easily verify this information or the presence of a single word in that source on page 6-7 in less than 10 seconds. http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf

Yet that editor time after time would refused to look once at the source!

No editor can legitimately argue that the Pacific base incident (possibly Okinawa) is not verifiable on pages 6-7 in that source!’’

Discussion:Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Original_research.3F_.2F_synthesis.3F_removed.2C_failure_to_WP:BRD.3F discussion He will not discuss his concern except to tell me to quit flogging a dead horse! the pages history 03:44, 20 September 2017 -remove incident that is not proven to have occurred in Okinawa [7]

10:46, 7 August 2017 removal of incident that is not proven to be associated with Okinawa - WP:V [8]

04:14, 7 April 2017 considering WP:V, this para cannot be included, at least in this form [9]

05:00, 20 March 2017 remove incident that cannot be definitively linked to Okinawa [10]

07:06, 19 March 2017 should not have this here if it's not clearly re Okinawa [11]

07:10, 18 March 2017 remove F-100 incident; no clear evidence was on Okinawa; [12]

• Note the word Interceptor on page 7 of the source.

No editor can legitimately argue that the word INTERCEPTOR is not in that source!’’

17:22, 19 March 2017 remove text about nuclear-armed interceptors, which does not appear to be cited; remove F-100 incident which cannot be conclusively linked to Okinawa); [13]

07:05, 19 March 2017 air defence interceptors not sourced [14]

07:20, 18 March 2017 remove this sentence; can't find 'air defense interceptors' in any of the refs [15]

• This was another meritless content dispute that went on and on simply because he refused to review the sources followed by a dispute over the "nuclear capable missile (Genie)", then "Alert", then "Naha AFB", etc. etc. Discussion: Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie (and [16])

17:16, 18 March 2017 neither source mentions Genie missiles [17] etc.

• That went next into a dispute over a meritless concern about a terrorist threat vs, the non disclosure policy mentioned in the source which the involved editor misquoted and did not read.

discussed here

• At that point, I was threatened with ANI action after presenting two in disputable quotes from our source that directly contradicted the editor’s terrorist threat concerns. Yet, again that editor refused to further review our source. Two quotes:

“The motivation behind the NCND was the increasing need to fend off queries from foreign governments – rather than protecting against terrorists and Soviet military planning, as was later claimed by U.S. officials. The new policy soon became an important factor in the U.S approach to the security treaty negotiations with Japan." and

"Beyond the willingness of the Japanese and U.S. governments to “turn a blind eye” to the violation of Japan’s nuclear ban, it was the Neither Confirm Nor Deny policy that more than anything made the deceit possible. While officially intended to protect the ship against terrorists and complicate enemy military planning, the policy really served as a smoke-screen under which U.S. Navy warships could get access to foreign ports regardless of the nuclear policy of the host country.

Given those quotes, No editor can legitimately argue that a mid-1970s terror threat report was the purpose of the 1950 NCND policy from that source! (Nor can the perceived threat in a 1974 report be tied to the removal from Okinawa which was planned around 1969 and executed by 1973)’’

• In response to the correction of that editor over that content, he threatened me with ANI action to sanction me (now realized). Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Terrorist_threat_and_weapons_removed_in_1972-_Apparent_POV (and [18])

“When I file the AN/I over your WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES reliance, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, and battleground reverting editing, you will be notified, in accordance with policy. In my considered opinion, you should be writing research pieces for publication that allow you to state polemics, not trying to operate on a site that is supposed to be neutral. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:44, 2 April 2017 (UTC)”

• I do not feel that it would be possible for any WP editor to present any quality argument to dispute my well-evidenced assertions. Therefore, why would any administrator blindly accept any of that editors assertions at MfD or ANI or anywhere else at face value?

If my editing was so problematic then then has not one single example of any of my edits containing WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES interpretation, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, as alleged at MfD or ANI and why is that editor the only one removing well-sourced content that I added to the main space? (I think I've seen once case where an editor asked for a better sourced)

Discussion

What does one editor do when an administrators or a group of administrators will not read the source and wants to ridiculously edit war over solidly verified content and turn what should be a kindergarten level content dispute into an ANI concern about my behavior?

I have been temporarily blocked in the past. Each time this happens, no one figures out until long after I’m blamed and sanctioned that I was in fact correct. This was the case with my first block where a tight group of editors were actively abusing a source and repeatedly reinserted text over a period of years that came directly from a conspiracy web site [19]. They also misrepresented that source by ignoring text about the 1990s origin in order to remove it at RSN [20]. That happened. No editor can argue that was not the case. I wear the experience proudly should any editor want to look at it again. I know I’m right about this content (and the presence of a single word) being in the source and there is simply no amount arguments that can ever surmount it. I know ANY editor can look at and see that I’m right but to date, they will not do it and those involved are not willing to further embarrass themselves in a RfC or content discussion. For this, I get blocked because some editors made baseless assertions that are believed by lots of other editors without the slightest glance at the source, diff, quote, evidence, etc or anything else.

• That we have a content dispute is an insurmountable argument. That these disputes are disruptive to WP is unanimous. That opposing editors cannot read the source nor seem to come up with a single valid concern that has enough merit for ANY of the next steps in dispute resolution simply because he will not acknowledge whether plain text words appear in our sources is frustrating any possible improvements. This happens time and time again and I am powerless to stop it.

• Each and every time content is challenged for dubious reasoning or needs to be discussed, the conversation is always moved to a forum that was never intended to resolve content problems.

“In forums such as ANI content is not usually reviewed and is typically ignored from discussion.” [Which I didn’t know until now...]

• Therefore, content assertions and the counter arguments discussed there are never reviewed by administrators. These forums require quotes and diffs and policies which I provided to counter unfounded arguments that were known to be false when they were first raised and would be proven false if the content was ever once reviewed. However, my sandbox had already been deleted at that point (after MfD) which made it impossible to see for a non-administrator like me to provide diffs. the specific merits or concerns of sourced content is never reviewed prior to deletion and meritless conduct concerns are brought up that could be easily disproved by reviewing content. its a Catch-22 and the end result is that application of WP policy fails and the quality of arguments for deletion or retention is skipped entirely.

I am now topic banned and cannot present nor discuss a single issue!

It is past the proper time for other administrators to review my valid arguments, and the assertions with evidence and diffs. Ignoring them or validating an editors meritless concerns under a guise of consensus will be challenged per WP policy whether it is now or in six months!

• Administrators were asked to do these things but didn’t:

1. determine to what extent additional subject knowledge may be necessary to resolve the dispute.

1. Identify the key participants in an article or topic area.

1. Examine accusations that are being made. It is particularly important that any accusations be accompanied with evidence. Review the diffs to ensure that they back up the accusations.

1. Examine the situation in detail so as to build a complete picture. Just looking at a few diffs may not give sufficient context to understand the editing environment that led to the accusations. A superficial view of the situation may also play into the hands of those who bait others into lashing out.

1. Check contribution histories.

1. Identify Tag-team editors.

1. Determine whether administrator action is required.

Wikipedia Policy says my edits are not disruptive but his seem to be. “While notable minority opinions are welcome when verifiable through reliable sources, and constructive editors occasionally make mistakes, sometimes a Wikipedia editor creates long-term problems by persistently editing a page or set of pages with information which is not verifiable through reliable sources or insisting on giving undue weight to a minority view.”

• It is content that needs to be discussed to resolve disputes
• The editor complaining that my edits are problematic or fail verification does not appear to be competent enough to make such assertions. THAT is the root of the problem.
• These editors have deleted my userspace material (with both the userfied version and my recent sandbox updates) and with it any hope of providing diffs in discussion because all traces of what was removed are deleted and not visible to me.

• The block and topic ban should be lifted because they never should have been applied.
• My sandbox draft should be restored because it was deleted without the slightest merit. Johnvr4 (talk) 19:02, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

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{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2=Mea culpa: I felt the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Operation_Red_Hat/Archives/2017/September talk page edit] for which I was apparently blocked was necessary. As I’ve explained, the edit was to prevent involved editors from forever deleting the pages edit history that contains the creation of the page and attribution for the editors that edited the content. Edits prior to any edits that I submitted to it are missing. These histories are apparently lost in violation of our policies and pillars. The editor who blocked me stated that "When consensus holds that your edits are not improving the encyclopedia, and when you've been banned from making such edits, invoking IAR is not a basis for doing the edits in question." The hiding all diffs prior to my editing on that subject would show that questionable material regarding text about night operations and “of cooking up stuff in my spare time” that individual editors accused me of submitting at AfD is now concealed as well as the number of times and reasons that the page was locked, revived, deleted and revived again by the involved editor. Based upon unfounded assertions of long involved editors, there is now a negative community consensus (such as that I interpret primary sources or that "I cook stuff up in my spare time") associated with my edits which the missing history would reveal I did not submit. I have to wonder how many times the page has been resurrected by that editor or whether anyone can tell? I wonder why that information is not reflected anywhere in the pages history. Our community has allowed perhaps even encouraged those actions by not looking at the facts or patterns of behavior that I described and topic banning me without merit. I employed IAR to prevent an even larger disruption that is described in policy because it appears to me to be absolutely against one of our community’s pillars. No small group of involved editors can justify that there is consensus to overrule a policy nor one of our pillars. This apparently has been done numerous times to my submissions by the same editor. The issues with that page history make it impossible to discuss my situation with other involved editors with the diffs and proof that are required in such discussion. The pages history would vindicate me against further false accusations by these same editors and show that specific problems and concerns for which I was blamed that existed at AfD had been corrected prior to MfD and more importantly, that I was not the editor responsible for putting them there in the first place as has been incorrectly asserted by these editors at AfD and after. That is why I purposely ignored the Ban. In my view, necessity under the common law (the established law where I live) is very similar to [[WP:IAR]]. It doesn’t block an accusation nor an arrest or imprisonment. It is never a “get out of jail free card”. However, necessity defenses prevent any conviction and punishment whenever the situation was not caused by a defendant, they could not accomplish the same objective using a less offensive alternative available to them, and the problem sought to be avoided was more heinous than the unlawful act perpetrated to avoid it. ===My understanding=== The community agrees that myself and a limited number of editors need to work together but are having a content dispute. Certain involved editors have made claims about content but have thwarted any and all procedures to rectify them. Rather that adhering to established WP policy that could determine consensus, they have raised dubious concerns and then moved every content discussion into a forum that is not set up to determine the validity of content. Consensus of the community is that Content issues should NOT be raised at ANI for the very reasons I have described. The simple fact is that no editor was able to provide a single example of my alleged edits that were shown to not improve WP. The assertions come from a concerned editor that as I will discuss below who knew the allegations were baseless, and unfounded. These concerns were disputed by the numerous other editors at ANI who reviewed them and who provided well-founded examples (with links) to support the exact opposite opinion. To restate, not one example has been presented of any edits that I made did not improve Wikipedia. The community has agreed that determining consensus requires adherence to all WP policies -each of which already have community consensus. Consensus cannot be reached by ignoring our policies. Ignoring WP policy is the definition of Local consensus. It is impossible to discuss the my WP Block without discussing the (overly broad) Topic Ban (of “Weapons” and “Japan”). *I understand that I was blocked because I made a 2nd talk page edit during a ban that purposefully ignored two editors that I have shown with specific diffs to have a history of unfounded personal attacks against me and had either less than honest or had purposefully misled the community as described on my talk page The first edit to that talk page was prior to me knowing about the ban. My second edit explained my first and a third edit explained my second. ===What I do not understand=== *I am not sure what lesson I am supposed to be learning by my block nor what parts of deleted content are in dispute. That leaves me with no idea of exactly what the community expects me to improve and no way to reassure other editors that my edits won't be problematic. *I do not understand why I was topic banned- Other than perhaps restoring my sandbox material which was seemingly deleted without application of policy and refusing to listen to certain editors who battled over content without discussion and will not review our sources. *I do not understand how or why my sandbox draft was deleted seemingly against all WP policy-other than adding new sources reliable to support it 1.5 hours prior to nomination. *I do not understand how, against all Wikipedia policy, a content dispute can be discussed or resolved without ever discussing that specific content- which has not been done to my knowledge even once- and each time it comes up instead is misrepresented and resolved exclusively in forums that never (or rarely ever) looks at content. *I do not understand how high quality policy-based arguments with quotes and diffs and examples can be ignored while baseless assertions by one editor can be seconded by other editors that seem too lazy to review them giving merit to obviously baseless assertions that lack the slightest evidence to support or verify it. Each of these issues could be easily dismissed by the briefest view of the edits, diffs, sources, or policies in question at any point. I’ve waited for the larger community to realize what is going with the other editor and decide on what needs to be done but that does not seem to be happening. ===Why I do not understand=== At MfD, the nominator falsely claimed that my draft material was # “my preferred version of disputed content," # that I had not condensed the material, and # that no immediate article with the material seemed likely. However, each one of those assertions was disproved in later discussions and both involved editors [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D#U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan.27s_southern_islands knew very well (here as one example)] that the sandbox material had been condensed by 1/3 and was being condensed by another 1/3 before it was deleted. Nevertheless, they and others continued to make the assertion that it had not been condensed. *The MfD closer ignored WP policy with a belief that that a sandbox must be to be main space article policy compliant (which it does not), she invented a non-existent time component that's inconsistent with policy (or a new WP policy), and purposefully ignored each of policy issues I raised in MfD and on her talk page: [[WP:UD]], [[WP:STALE]], [[WP:ABANDONED]], [[WP:FAKEARTICLE]]. The community was misled when she said that no policy argument was raised at MfD to retain it ''despite the indisputable fact each policy is clearly mentioned and/or quoted by me there'' and it is as plain as day for any editor to read: [[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRedHat#Userpage_drafts_of_Operation_Red_Hat]] ([[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRed Hat]]) In closing she said that, “No policy argument has been raised for keeping this. Info was rightly deleted at AfD years ago as it is a huge mess of information unrelated to the actual topic, and has never been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace. We're not a webhost for deleted content so it's time for this to go.” ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2017 (UTC) ''It is '''clear''' that not one of the concerns raised at MfD actually applied to or was directed at '''my sandbox draft'''-which had been reedited and condensed into new articles over the last six months to comply with the concerns of the nominating editor''! [[User_talk:Premeditated_Chaos/Archive_11#Deletion_of_userspace_material]] “I agree with the nominator and the other two participants that the problems that caused the material to be deleted in mainspace are still present in the userfied copy, and my close specifically reflects that with the statement that the draft had not been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace.” PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 26 August 2017 As you can see above, the closing editor spoke ONLY of the Userfied copy however, she deleted BOTH the userfied Copy AND my updated sandbox draft. Then she would not clarify any of the perceptions she had about my sandbox draft (contrary to all evidence) in order for me to go forward as her concerns as were applied to my sandbox draft made no sense. *The MfD closing editor said I should go to deletion review- which I did. However, all of the policy concerns I raised at Deletion Review were also purposefully ignored (the closer went out of their way to close it without reading it and decided that I should not be allowed to fix an errant faulty insertion). There was no hint that the review of the deletion was closed “to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal was applied consistently and fairly.” It was apparently closed out of sheer laziness: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2017_August_30 Closure review DRV of JohnVR4 userspace Sandbox drafts] “Ignoring the [[WP:WALLOFTEXT]] from the nom, there's strong consensus here to endorse the deletion of these stale user drafts. – -- RoySmith (talk) August_30” It appears that the closer at Deletion Review commented that both drafts were deleted under STALE despite the diffs that showed that My sandbox had been recently edited only 1.5 hours prior to its nomination for deletion as stale or any other application of WP policy – a fact which no editor can argue against! Quality arguments that are put forth in order to determine consensus- cannot be ignored- which is the reason I feel that we are here. As shown, my Sandbox was edited with additional sources only 1.5 hours before it was was nominated at MfD as [[WP:STALE]]. I am not sure which part of the [[WP:STALE]] WP policy allows the complete deletion of my sandbox with 170 references without any discussion of content. MfD after a 5 month break and only 1.5 hours after the last edit that improved it with additional sources. I am unsure why I am sanctioned for editing in my sandbox or talk page. The deletion of my sandbox without any ability for me to edit the material was effectively a topic ban after MfD. I see no valid explanation of how that can happen yet that is precisely how my sandbox draft was deleted, repeatedly. MfD looked to be simply a vote or [[WP:VAGUEWAVE]] of mostly involved editors. Therefore, I asked for a review of the MfD determination for specific reasons and every single one of those quality policy arguments (yes, the format was all off) were purposefully ignored by the closer. That is also the reason I ignored the Mfd deletion of my sandbox which I can assume was one reason for the ban (I am unclear how that vote for a ban happened when my power was out for a week that ignored all of the quality arguments in opposition to it.) ===The issue to be resolved=== ''I was nominated for the ban by an editor trying resolve really absurd content issues that he cannot overcome in any other way.'' There was a content dispute with a deeply involved nominating editor who uses vague policy waves and an utter refusal to review sources to justify battleground editing and has given up on BRD. He removes sourced content to insert his POV. I have had a lot of difficulty with this behavior and it has generated tons of unnecessary discussion to try and fix. The behavior can be described as tendentious editing as shown below. Instead, my edits are deleted and challenged and endless discussion and countless meritless concerns materialize from thin air followed by the editors refusal to participate in further discussion while he goes to battle over that one word that is clearly present in the source to everyone but him. This has made it impossible to listen to or work with him. I’ve re-added disputed text based on discussions under [unexplained removal of sourced content] but the editor has even removed the source entirely and continues to remove the sourced text. This has resulted in an apparent Edit war based solely upon his ''entirely faulty assertions'' that these words are not in our sources. There may some type of a mental illness at work here. The disruption on this page over six months is 100% being caused by the involved editor who nominated my submissions for deletion and then nominated to block me. *The community needs to understand that ''No editor can legitimately argue that Camp SCHWAB is not in that source!’’ [https://web.archive.org/web/20161222235607/http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2001/06/04/national/u-s-eyed-okinawa-for-huge-offshore-base-in-mid-1960s/ From that source (It's from Japan Times- )]: “The document shows that the area off the U.S. Marine Corps’ ''Camp Schwab'' in the ''Henoko'' district on the east coast of Nago was most suitable for the ''offshore base'', taking into account Okinawa’s geography and weather conditions. It suggested building an offshore landfill facility with a 3,000-meter runway, a large military port ''and an integrated ammunition bunker capable of storing nuclear weapons.''” Discussion: [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Henoko.2F_Schwab.2F_Hansen.2F_nuke_depot.2F_and_relocation_plan]] *HE verifies that THIS IS THE ROOT OF OUR PROBLEM: Here the involved editor exclaims with asterisks and double exclamation points, “*The Sources Do Not State!!*” and makes edits to remove the sourced text. “Neither mentions the words 'Camp Schwab'. We run with WP:V here, and I am *strictly* paring you back to the details mentioned in the sources you cite. You appear to have a tendency to add material that isn't actually in the cited sources -- evident all the way back to the 2013 deletion debate. If you're going to add primary-source material so heavily, you need to stick quite closely to the sources and not infer or WP:SYNTH from them. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 04:14, 26 March 2017 (UTC)” 07:05, 19 March 2017 (b) new secret depot sentences not sourced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054326&oldid=771039477] 18:53, 9 April 2017 remove discussions about base moves long after nuclear weapons removed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=774632853&oldid=774632068] *There are many more interactions just like that one and I am just scratching the surface here… Any editor can that look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&action=history U.S. Nuclear weapons in Japan PAGE HISTORY] to see how much sourced content being deleted by that editor and every bit of it seems to be done with dubious reasoning. Our dispute(s) seemed to mostly resolve around [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf A source] that I have asked repeatedly to be reviewed by that editor. The editor refuses to review the sources and battles over the content. *Concerning an incident at a Pacific base involving an F-100 “interceptor” and the impact of incident on the removal of nuclear weapons from Asia. ''ANY other WP editor can easily verify this information or the presence of a single word in that source on page 6-7 in less than 10 seconds''. http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf Yet [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D#U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan.27s_southern_islands that editor] time after time would refused to look once at the source! ''No editor can legitimately argue that the Pacific base incident (possibly Okinawa) is not verifiable on pages 6-7 in [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf that source]!’’ Discussion:[[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Original_research.3F_.2F_synthesis.3F_removed.2C_failure_to_WP:BRD.3F discussion]] He will not discuss his concern except to tell me to quit flogging a dead horse! [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&action=history the pages history] 03:44, 20 September 2017 -remove incident that is not proven to have occurred in Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=801514968&oldid=801043813] 10:46, 7 August 2017 removal of incident that is not proven to be associated with Okinawa - WP:V [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=794334962&oldid=794316690] 04:14, 7 April 2017 considering WP:V, this para cannot be included, at least in this form [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=774240769&oldid=773960339] 05:00, 20 March 2017 remove incident that cannot be definitively linked to Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771205335&oldid=771170281] 07:06, 19 March 2017 should not have this here if it's not clearly re Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054411&oldid=771054326] 07:10, 18 March 2017 remove F-100 incident; no clear evidence was on Okinawa; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770891527&oldid=770890167] *Note the word ''Interceptor'' on page 7 of [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf the source]. ''No editor can legitimately argue that the word INTERCEPTOR is not in that source!’’ 17:22, 19 March 2017 remove text about nuclear-armed interceptors, which does not appear to be cited; remove F-100 incident which cannot be conclusively linked to Okinawa); [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771117812&oldid=771116489] 07:05, 19 March 2017 air defence interceptors not sourced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054326&oldid=771039477] 07:20, 18 March 2017 remove this sentence; can't find 'air defense interceptors' in any of the refs [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770892253&oldid=770891939] *This was another meritless content dispute that went on and on simply because he refused to review the sources followed by a dispute over the "nuclear capable missile (Genie)", then "Alert", then "Naha AFB", etc. etc. Discussion: [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie]] (and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Johnvr4#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie]) 17:16, 18 March 2017 neither source mentions Genie missiles [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770955610&oldid=770955304] etc. *That went next into a dispute over a meritless concern about a terrorist threat vs, the non disclosure policy mentioned in the source which the involved editor misquoted and did not read. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Terrorist_threat_and_weapons_removed_in_1972-_Apparent_POV discussed here] *''At that point, I was threatened with ANI action after presenting two in disputable quotes from our source that directly contradicted the editor’s terrorist threat concerns.'' Yet, again that editor refused to further review our source. Two quotes: “The motivation behind the NCND was the increasing need to fend off queries from foreign governments – rather than protecting against terrorists and Soviet military planning, as was later claimed by U.S. officials. The new policy soon became an important factor in the U.S approach to the security treaty negotiations with Japan." and "Beyond the willingness of the Japanese and U.S. governments to “turn a blind eye” to the violation of Japan’s nuclear ban, it was the Neither Confirm Nor Deny policy that more than anything made the deceit possible. While officially intended to protect the ship against terrorists and complicate enemy military planning, the policy really served as a smoke-screen under which U.S. Navy warships could get access to foreign ports regardless of the nuclear policy of the host country. Given those quotes, ''No editor can legitimately argue that a mid-1970s terror threat report was the purpose of the 1950 NCND policy from that source! (Nor can the perceived threat in a 1974 report be tied to the removal from Okinawa which was planned around 1969 and executed by 1973)’’ *In response to the correction of that editor over that content, ''he threatened me with ANI action to sanction me (now realized). [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Terrorist_threat_and_weapons_removed_in_1972-_Apparent_POV]] (and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Johnvr4#Apparent_POV]) “When I file the AN/I over your WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES reliance, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, and battleground reverting editing, you will be notified, in accordance with policy. In my considered opinion, you should be writing research pieces for publication that allow you to state polemics, not trying to operate on a site that is supposed to be neutral. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:44, 2 April 2017 (UTC)”'' *I do not feel that it would be possible for any WP editor to present any quality argument to dispute my well-evidenced assertions. Therefore, why would any administrator blindly accept any of that editors assertions at MfD or ANI or anywhere else at face value? If my editing was so problematic then then has not one single example of any of my edits containing WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES interpretation, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, as alleged at MfD or ANI and why is that editor the only one removing well-sourced content that I added to the main space? (I think I've seen once case where an editor asked for a better sourced) ===Discussion=== What does one editor do when an administrators or a group of administrators will not read the source and wants to ridiculously edit war over solidly verified content and turn what should be a kindergarten level content dispute into an ANI concern about my behavior? I have been temporarily blocked in the past. Each time this happens, no one figures out until long after I’m blamed and sanctioned that I was in fact correct. This was the case with my first block where a tight group of editors were actively abusing a source and repeatedly reinserted text over a period of years that came directly from a conspiracy web site [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory/Archive_6#Brad_Steiger.27s_book]. They also misrepresented that source by ignoring text about the 1990s origin in order to remove it at RSN [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_164#Brad_Steiger_book]. That happened. No editor can argue that was not the case. I wear the experience proudly should any editor want to look at it again. I know I’m right about this content (and the presence of a single word) being in the source and there is simply no amount arguments that can ever surmount it. I know ANY editor can look at and see that I’m right but to date, they will not do it and those involved are not willing to further embarrass themselves in a RfC or content discussion. For this, I get blocked because some editors made baseless assertions that are believed by lots of other editors without the slightest glance at the source, diff, quote, evidence, etc or anything else. *That we have a content dispute is an insurmountable argument. That these disputes are disruptive to WP is unanimous. That opposing editors cannot read the source nor seem to come up with a single valid concern that has enough merit for ANY of the next steps in dispute resolution simply because he will not acknowledge whether plain text words appear in our sources is frustrating any possible improvements. This happens time and time again and I am powerless to stop it. *''Each and every time content is challenged for dubious reasoning or needs to be discussed, the conversation is always moved to a forum that was never intended to resolve content problems.'' ''“In forums such as ANI content is not usually reviewed and is typically ignored from discussion.”'' [Which I didn’t know until now...] *Therefore, content assertions and the counter arguments discussed there are never reviewed by administrators. These forums require quotes and diffs and policies which I provided to counter unfounded arguments that were known to be false when they were first raised and would be proven false if the content was ever once reviewed. However, my sandbox had already been deleted at that point (after MfD) which made it impossible to see for a non-administrator like me to provide diffs. the specific merits or concerns of sourced content is never reviewed prior to deletion and meritless conduct concerns are brought up that could be easily disproved by reviewing content. its a Catch-22 and the end result is that application of WP policy fails and the quality of arguments for deletion or retention is skipped entirely. I am now topic banned and cannot present nor discuss a single issue! It is past the proper time for other administrators to review my valid arguments, and the assertions with evidence and diffs. Ignoring them or validating an editors meritless concerns under a guise of consensus will be challenged per WP policy whether it is now or in six months! *Administrators were asked to do these things but didn’t: #determine to what extent additional subject knowledge may be necessary to resolve the dispute. #Identify the key participants in an article or topic area. #Examine accusations that are being made. It is particularly important that any accusations be accompanied with evidence. Review the diffs to ensure that they back up the accusations. #Examine the situation in detail so as to build a complete picture. Just looking at a few diffs may not give sufficient context to understand the editing environment that led to the accusations. A superficial view of the situation may also play into the hands of those who bait others into lashing out. #Check contribution histories. #Identify Tag-team editors. #Determine whether administrator action is required. Wikipedia Policy says my edits are not [[WP:DISRUPT|disruptive]] but his seem to be. “While notable minority opinions are welcome when verifiable through reliable sources, and constructive editors occasionally make mistakes, sometimes a Wikipedia editor creates long-term problems by persistently editing a page or set of pages with information which is not verifiable through reliable sources or insisting on giving undue weight to a minority view.” *It is content that needs to be discussed to resolve disputes *The editor complaining that my edits are problematic or fail verification does not appear to be competent enough to make such assertions. ''THAT is the root of the problem.'' *These editors have deleted my userspace material (with both the userfied version and my recent sandbox updates) and with it any hope of providing diffs in discussion because all traces of what was removed are deleted and not visible to me. *The block and topic ban should be lifted because they never should have been applied. *My sandbox draft should be restored because it was deleted without the slightest merit. [[User:Johnvr4|Johnvr4]] ([[User talk:Johnvr4#top|talk]]) 19:02, 22 October 2017 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}

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{{unblock reviewed |1=Mea culpa: I felt the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Operation_Red_Hat/Archives/2017/September talk page edit] for which I was apparently blocked was necessary. As I’ve explained, the edit was to prevent involved editors from forever deleting the pages edit history that contains the creation of the page and attribution for the editors that edited the content. Edits prior to any edits that I submitted to it are missing. These histories are apparently lost in violation of our policies and pillars. The editor who blocked me stated that "When consensus holds that your edits are not improving the encyclopedia, and when you've been banned from making such edits, invoking IAR is not a basis for doing the edits in question." The hiding all diffs prior to my editing on that subject would show that questionable material regarding text about night operations and “of cooking up stuff in my spare time” that individual editors accused me of submitting at AfD is now concealed as well as the number of times and reasons that the page was locked, revived, deleted and revived again by the involved editor. Based upon unfounded assertions of long involved editors, there is now a negative community consensus (such as that I interpret primary sources or that "I cook stuff up in my spare time") associated with my edits which the missing history would reveal I did not submit. I have to wonder how many times the page has been resurrected by that editor or whether anyone can tell? I wonder why that information is not reflected anywhere in the pages history. Our community has allowed perhaps even encouraged those actions by not looking at the facts or patterns of behavior that I described and topic banning me without merit. I employed IAR to prevent an even larger disruption that is described in policy because it appears to me to be absolutely against one of our community’s pillars. No small group of involved editors can justify that there is consensus to overrule a policy nor one of our pillars. This apparently has been done numerous times to my submissions by the same editor. The issues with that page history make it impossible to discuss my situation with other involved editors with the diffs and proof that are required in such discussion. The pages history would vindicate me against further false accusations by these same editors and show that specific problems and concerns for which I was blamed that existed at AfD had been corrected prior to MfD and more importantly, that I was not the editor responsible for putting them there in the first place as has been incorrectly asserted by these editors at AfD and after. That is why I purposely ignored the Ban. In my view, necessity under the common law (the established law where I live) is very similar to [[WP:IAR]]. It doesn’t block an accusation nor an arrest or imprisonment. It is never a “get out of jail free card”. However, necessity defenses prevent any conviction and punishment whenever the situation was not caused by a defendant, they could not accomplish the same objective using a less offensive alternative available to them, and the problem sought to be avoided was more heinous than the unlawful act perpetrated to avoid it. ===My understanding=== The community agrees that myself and a limited number of editors need to work together but are having a content dispute. Certain involved editors have made claims about content but have thwarted any and all procedures to rectify them. Rather that adhering to established WP policy that could determine consensus, they have raised dubious concerns and then moved every content discussion into a forum that is not set up to determine the validity of content. Consensus of the community is that Content issues should NOT be raised at ANI for the very reasons I have described. The simple fact is that no editor was able to provide a single example of my alleged edits that were shown to not improve WP. The assertions come from a concerned editor that as I will discuss below who knew the allegations were baseless, and unfounded. These concerns were disputed by the numerous other editors at ANI who reviewed them and who provided well-founded examples (with links) to support the exact opposite opinion. To restate, not one example has been presented of any edits that I made did not improve Wikipedia. The community has agreed that determining consensus requires adherence to all WP policies -each of which already have community consensus. Consensus cannot be reached by ignoring our policies. Ignoring WP policy is the definition of Local consensus. It is impossible to discuss the my WP Block without discussing the (overly broad) Topic Ban (of “Weapons” and “Japan”). *I understand that I was blocked because I made a 2nd talk page edit during a ban that purposefully ignored two editors that I have shown with specific diffs to have a history of unfounded personal attacks against me and had either less than honest or had purposefully misled the community as described on my talk page The first edit to that talk page was prior to me knowing about the ban. My second edit explained my first and a third edit explained my second. ===What I do not understand=== *I am not sure what lesson I am supposed to be learning by my block nor what parts of deleted content are in dispute. That leaves me with no idea of exactly what the community expects me to improve and no way to reassure other editors that my edits won't be problematic. *I do not understand why I was topic banned- Other than perhaps restoring my sandbox material which was seemingly deleted without application of policy and refusing to listen to certain editors who battled over content without discussion and will not review our sources. *I do not understand how or why my sandbox draft was deleted seemingly against all WP policy-other than adding new sources reliable to support it 1.5 hours prior to nomination. *I do not understand how, against all Wikipedia policy, a content dispute can be discussed or resolved without ever discussing that specific content- which has not been done to my knowledge even once- and each time it comes up instead is misrepresented and resolved exclusively in forums that never (or rarely ever) looks at content. *I do not understand how high quality policy-based arguments with quotes and diffs and examples can be ignored while baseless assertions by one editor can be seconded by other editors that seem too lazy to review them giving merit to obviously baseless assertions that lack the slightest evidence to support or verify it. Each of these issues could be easily dismissed by the briefest view of the edits, diffs, sources, or policies in question at any point. I’ve waited for the larger community to realize what is going with the other editor and decide on what needs to be done but that does not seem to be happening. ===Why I do not understand=== At MfD, the nominator falsely claimed that my draft material was # “my preferred version of disputed content," # that I had not condensed the material, and # that no immediate article with the material seemed likely. However, each one of those assertions was disproved in later discussions and both involved editors [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D#U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan.27s_southern_islands knew very well (here as one example)] that the sandbox material had been condensed by 1/3 and was being condensed by another 1/3 before it was deleted. Nevertheless, they and others continued to make the assertion that it had not been condensed. *The MfD closer ignored WP policy with a belief that that a sandbox must be to be main space article policy compliant (which it does not), she invented a non-existent time component that's inconsistent with policy (or a new WP policy), and purposefully ignored each of policy issues I raised in MfD and on her talk page: [[WP:UD]], [[WP:STALE]], [[WP:ABANDONED]], [[WP:FAKEARTICLE]]. The community was misled when she said that no policy argument was raised at MfD to retain it ''despite the indisputable fact each policy is clearly mentioned and/or quoted by me there'' and it is as plain as day for any editor to read: [[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRedHat#Userpage_drafts_of_Operation_Red_Hat]] ([[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRed Hat]]) In closing she said that, “No policy argument has been raised for keeping this. Info was rightly deleted at AfD years ago as it is a huge mess of information unrelated to the actual topic, and has never been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace. We're not a webhost for deleted content so it's time for this to go.” ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2017 (UTC) ''It is '''clear''' that not one of the concerns raised at MfD actually applied to or was directed at '''my sandbox draft'''-which had been reedited and condensed into new articles over the last six months to comply with the concerns of the nominating editor''! [[User_talk:Premeditated_Chaos/Archive_11#Deletion_of_userspace_material]] “I agree with the nominator and the other two participants that the problems that caused the material to be deleted in mainspace are still present in the userfied copy, and my close specifically reflects that with the statement that the draft had not been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace.” PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 26 August 2017 As you can see above, the closing editor spoke ONLY of the Userfied copy however, she deleted BOTH the userfied Copy AND my updated sandbox draft. Then she would not clarify any of the perceptions she had about my sandbox draft (contrary to all evidence) in order for me to go forward as her concerns as were applied to my sandbox draft made no sense. *The MfD closing editor said I should go to deletion review- which I did. However, all of the policy concerns I raised at Deletion Review were also purposefully ignored (the closer went out of their way to close it without reading it and decided that I should not be allowed to fix an errant faulty insertion). There was no hint that the review of the deletion was closed “to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal was applied consistently and fairly.” It was apparently closed out of sheer laziness: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2017_August_30 Closure review DRV of JohnVR4 userspace Sandbox drafts] “Ignoring the [[WP:WALLOFTEXT]] from the nom, there's strong consensus here to endorse the deletion of these stale user drafts. – -- RoySmith (talk) August_30” It appears that the closer at Deletion Review commented that both drafts were deleted under STALE despite the diffs that showed that My sandbox had been recently edited only 1.5 hours prior to its nomination for deletion as stale or any other application of WP policy – a fact which no editor can argue against! Quality arguments that are put forth in order to determine consensus- cannot be ignored- which is the reason I feel that we are here. As shown, my Sandbox was edited with additional sources only 1.5 hours before it was was nominated at MfD as [[WP:STALE]]. I am not sure which part of the [[WP:STALE]] WP policy allows the complete deletion of my sandbox with 170 references without any discussion of content. MfD after a 5 month break and only 1.5 hours after the last edit that improved it with additional sources. I am unsure why I am sanctioned for editing in my sandbox or talk page. The deletion of my sandbox without any ability for me to edit the material was effectively a topic ban after MfD. I see no valid explanation of how that can happen yet that is precisely how my sandbox draft was deleted, repeatedly. MfD looked to be simply a vote or [[WP:VAGUEWAVE]] of mostly involved editors. Therefore, I asked for a review of the MfD determination for specific reasons and every single one of those quality policy arguments (yes, the format was all off) were purposefully ignored by the closer. That is also the reason I ignored the Mfd deletion of my sandbox which I can assume was one reason for the ban (I am unclear how that vote for a ban happened when my power was out for a week that ignored all of the quality arguments in opposition to it.) ===The issue to be resolved=== ''I was nominated for the ban by an editor trying resolve really absurd content issues that he cannot overcome in any other way.'' There was a content dispute with a deeply involved nominating editor who uses vague policy waves and an utter refusal to review sources to justify battleground editing and has given up on BRD. He removes sourced content to insert his POV. I have had a lot of difficulty with this behavior and it has generated tons of unnecessary discussion to try and fix. The behavior can be described as tendentious editing as shown below. Instead, my edits are deleted and challenged and endless discussion and countless meritless concerns materialize from thin air followed by the editors refusal to participate in further discussion while he goes to battle over that one word that is clearly present in the source to everyone but him. This has made it impossible to listen to or work with him. I’ve re-added disputed text based on discussions under [unexplained removal of sourced content] but the editor has even removed the source entirely and continues to remove the sourced text. This has resulted in an apparent Edit war based solely upon his ''entirely faulty assertions'' that these words are not in our sources. There may some type of a mental illness at work here. The disruption on this page over six months is 100% being caused by the involved editor who nominated my submissions for deletion and then nominated to block me. *The community needs to understand that ''No editor can legitimately argue that Camp SCHWAB is not in that source!’’ [https://web.archive.org/web/20161222235607/http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2001/06/04/national/u-s-eyed-okinawa-for-huge-offshore-base-in-mid-1960s/ From that source (It's from Japan Times- )]: “The document shows that the area off the U.S. Marine Corps’ ''Camp Schwab'' in the ''Henoko'' district on the east coast of Nago was most suitable for the ''offshore base'', taking into account Okinawa’s geography and weather conditions. It suggested building an offshore landfill facility with a 3,000-meter runway, a large military port ''and an integrated ammunition bunker capable of storing nuclear weapons.''” Discussion: [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Henoko.2F_Schwab.2F_Hansen.2F_nuke_depot.2F_and_relocation_plan]] *HE verifies that THIS IS THE ROOT OF OUR PROBLEM: Here the involved editor exclaims with asterisks and double exclamation points, “*The Sources Do Not State!!*” and makes edits to remove the sourced text. “Neither mentions the words 'Camp Schwab'. We run with WP:V here, and I am *strictly* paring you back to the details mentioned in the sources you cite. You appear to have a tendency to add material that isn't actually in the cited sources -- evident all the way back to the 2013 deletion debate. If you're going to add primary-source material so heavily, you need to stick quite closely to the sources and not infer or WP:SYNTH from them. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 04:14, 26 March 2017 (UTC)” 07:05, 19 March 2017 (b) new secret depot sentences not sourced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054326&oldid=771039477] 18:53, 9 April 2017 remove discussions about base moves long after nuclear weapons removed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=774632853&oldid=774632068] *There are many more interactions just like that one and I am just scratching the surface here… Any editor can that look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&action=history U.S. Nuclear weapons in Japan PAGE HISTORY] to see how much sourced content being deleted by that editor and every bit of it seems to be done with dubious reasoning. Our dispute(s) seemed to mostly resolve around [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf A source] that I have asked repeatedly to be reviewed by that editor. The editor refuses to review the sources and battles over the content. *Concerning an incident at a Pacific base involving an F-100 “interceptor” and the impact of incident on the removal of nuclear weapons from Asia. ''ANY other WP editor can easily verify this information or the presence of a single word in that source on page 6-7 in less than 10 seconds''. http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf Yet [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D#U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan.27s_southern_islands that editor] time after time would refused to look once at the source! ''No editor can legitimately argue that the Pacific base incident (possibly Okinawa) is not verifiable on pages 6-7 in [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf that source]!’’ Discussion:[[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Original_research.3F_.2F_synthesis.3F_removed.2C_failure_to_WP:BRD.3F discussion]] He will not discuss his concern except to tell me to quit flogging a dead horse! [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&action=history the pages history] 03:44, 20 September 2017 -remove incident that is not proven to have occurred in Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=801514968&oldid=801043813] 10:46, 7 August 2017 removal of incident that is not proven to be associated with Okinawa - WP:V [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=794334962&oldid=794316690] 04:14, 7 April 2017 considering WP:V, this para cannot be included, at least in this form [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=774240769&oldid=773960339] 05:00, 20 March 2017 remove incident that cannot be definitively linked to Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771205335&oldid=771170281] 07:06, 19 March 2017 should not have this here if it's not clearly re Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054411&oldid=771054326] 07:10, 18 March 2017 remove F-100 incident; no clear evidence was on Okinawa; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770891527&oldid=770890167] *Note the word ''Interceptor'' on page 7 of [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf the source]. ''No editor can legitimately argue that the word INTERCEPTOR is not in that source!’’ 17:22, 19 March 2017 remove text about nuclear-armed interceptors, which does not appear to be cited; remove F-100 incident which cannot be conclusively linked to Okinawa); [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771117812&oldid=771116489] 07:05, 19 March 2017 air defence interceptors not sourced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054326&oldid=771039477] 07:20, 18 March 2017 remove this sentence; can't find 'air defense interceptors' in any of the refs [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770892253&oldid=770891939] *This was another meritless content dispute that went on and on simply because he refused to review the sources followed by a dispute over the "nuclear capable missile (Genie)", then "Alert", then "Naha AFB", etc. etc. Discussion: [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie]] (and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Johnvr4#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie]) 17:16, 18 March 2017 neither source mentions Genie missiles [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770955610&oldid=770955304] etc. *That went next into a dispute over a meritless concern about a terrorist threat vs, the non disclosure policy mentioned in the source which the involved editor misquoted and did not read. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Terrorist_threat_and_weapons_removed_in_1972-_Apparent_POV discussed here] *''At that point, I was threatened with ANI action after presenting two in disputable quotes from our source that directly contradicted the editor’s terrorist threat concerns.'' Yet, again that editor refused to further review our source. Two quotes: “The motivation behind the NCND was the increasing need to fend off queries from foreign governments – rather than protecting against terrorists and Soviet military planning, as was later claimed by U.S. officials. The new policy soon became an important factor in the U.S approach to the security treaty negotiations with Japan." and "Beyond the willingness of the Japanese and U.S. governments to “turn a blind eye” to the violation of Japan’s nuclear ban, it was the Neither Confirm Nor Deny policy that more than anything made the deceit possible. While officially intended to protect the ship against terrorists and complicate enemy military planning, the policy really served as a smoke-screen under which U.S. Navy warships could get access to foreign ports regardless of the nuclear policy of the host country. Given those quotes, ''No editor can legitimately argue that a mid-1970s terror threat report was the purpose of the 1950 NCND policy from that source! (Nor can the perceived threat in a 1974 report be tied to the removal from Okinawa which was planned around 1969 and executed by 1973)’’ *In response to the correction of that editor over that content, ''he threatened me with ANI action to sanction me (now realized). [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Terrorist_threat_and_weapons_removed_in_1972-_Apparent_POV]] (and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Johnvr4#Apparent_POV]) “When I file the AN/I over your WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES reliance, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, and battleground reverting editing, you will be notified, in accordance with policy. In my considered opinion, you should be writing research pieces for publication that allow you to state polemics, not trying to operate on a site that is supposed to be neutral. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:44, 2 April 2017 (UTC)”'' *I do not feel that it would be possible for any WP editor to present any quality argument to dispute my well-evidenced assertions. Therefore, why would any administrator blindly accept any of that editors assertions at MfD or ANI or anywhere else at face value? If my editing was so problematic then then has not one single example of any of my edits containing WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES interpretation, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, as alleged at MfD or ANI and why is that editor the only one removing well-sourced content that I added to the main space? (I think I've seen once case where an editor asked for a better sourced) ===Discussion=== What does one editor do when an administrators or a group of administrators will not read the source and wants to ridiculously edit war over solidly verified content and turn what should be a kindergarten level content dispute into an ANI concern about my behavior? I have been temporarily blocked in the past. Each time this happens, no one figures out until long after I’m blamed and sanctioned that I was in fact correct. This was the case with my first block where a tight group of editors were actively abusing a source and repeatedly reinserted text over a period of years that came directly from a conspiracy web site [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory/Archive_6#Brad_Steiger.27s_book]. They also misrepresented that source by ignoring text about the 1990s origin in order to remove it at RSN [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_164#Brad_Steiger_book]. That happened. No editor can argue that was not the case. I wear the experience proudly should any editor want to look at it again. I know I’m right about this content (and the presence of a single word) being in the source and there is simply no amount arguments that can ever surmount it. I know ANY editor can look at and see that I’m right but to date, they will not do it and those involved are not willing to further embarrass themselves in a RfC or content discussion. For this, I get blocked because some editors made baseless assertions that are believed by lots of other editors without the slightest glance at the source, diff, quote, evidence, etc or anything else. *That we have a content dispute is an insurmountable argument. That these disputes are disruptive to WP is unanimous. That opposing editors cannot read the source nor seem to come up with a single valid concern that has enough merit for ANY of the next steps in dispute resolution simply because he will not acknowledge whether plain text words appear in our sources is frustrating any possible improvements. This happens time and time again and I am powerless to stop it. *''Each and every time content is challenged for dubious reasoning or needs to be discussed, the conversation is always moved to a forum that was never intended to resolve content problems.'' ''“In forums such as ANI content is not usually reviewed and is typically ignored from discussion.”'' [Which I didn’t know until now...] *Therefore, content assertions and the counter arguments discussed there are never reviewed by administrators. These forums require quotes and diffs and policies which I provided to counter unfounded arguments that were known to be false when they were first raised and would be proven false if the content was ever once reviewed. However, my sandbox had already been deleted at that point (after MfD) which made it impossible to see for a non-administrator like me to provide diffs. the specific merits or concerns of sourced content is never reviewed prior to deletion and meritless conduct concerns are brought up that could be easily disproved by reviewing content. its a Catch-22 and the end result is that application of WP policy fails and the quality of arguments for deletion or retention is skipped entirely. I am now topic banned and cannot present nor discuss a single issue! It is past the proper time for other administrators to review my valid arguments, and the assertions with evidence and diffs. Ignoring them or validating an editors meritless concerns under a guise of consensus will be challenged per WP policy whether it is now or in six months! *Administrators were asked to do these things but didn’t: #determine to what extent additional subject knowledge may be necessary to resolve the dispute. #Identify the key participants in an article or topic area. #Examine accusations that are being made. It is particularly important that any accusations be accompanied with evidence. Review the diffs to ensure that they back up the accusations. #Examine the situation in detail so as to build a complete picture. Just looking at a few diffs may not give sufficient context to understand the editing environment that led to the accusations. A superficial view of the situation may also play into the hands of those who bait others into lashing out. #Check contribution histories. #Identify Tag-team editors. #Determine whether administrator action is required. Wikipedia Policy says my edits are not [[WP:DISRUPT|disruptive]] but his seem to be. “While notable minority opinions are welcome when verifiable through reliable sources, and constructive editors occasionally make mistakes, sometimes a Wikipedia editor creates long-term problems by persistently editing a page or set of pages with information which is not verifiable through reliable sources or insisting on giving undue weight to a minority view.” *It is content that needs to be discussed to resolve disputes *The editor complaining that my edits are problematic or fail verification does not appear to be competent enough to make such assertions. ''THAT is the root of the problem.'' *These editors have deleted my userspace material (with both the userfied version and my recent sandbox updates) and with it any hope of providing diffs in discussion because all traces of what was removed are deleted and not visible to me. *The block and topic ban should be lifted because they never should have been applied. *My sandbox draft should be restored because it was deleted without the slightest merit. [[User:Johnvr4|Johnvr4]] ([[User talk:Johnvr4#top|talk]]) 19:02, 22 October 2017 (UTC) |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}

If you accept the unblock request, replace this template with the following, substituting Accept reason here with your rationale:

{{unblock reviewed |1=Mea culpa: I felt the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Operation_Red_Hat/Archives/2017/September talk page edit] for which I was apparently blocked was necessary. As I’ve explained, the edit was to prevent involved editors from forever deleting the pages edit history that contains the creation of the page and attribution for the editors that edited the content. Edits prior to any edits that I submitted to it are missing. These histories are apparently lost in violation of our policies and pillars. The editor who blocked me stated that "When consensus holds that your edits are not improving the encyclopedia, and when you've been banned from making such edits, invoking IAR is not a basis for doing the edits in question." The hiding all diffs prior to my editing on that subject would show that questionable material regarding text about night operations and “of cooking up stuff in my spare time” that individual editors accused me of submitting at AfD is now concealed as well as the number of times and reasons that the page was locked, revived, deleted and revived again by the involved editor. Based upon unfounded assertions of long involved editors, there is now a negative community consensus (such as that I interpret primary sources or that "I cook stuff up in my spare time") associated with my edits which the missing history would reveal I did not submit. I have to wonder how many times the page has been resurrected by that editor or whether anyone can tell? I wonder why that information is not reflected anywhere in the pages history. Our community has allowed perhaps even encouraged those actions by not looking at the facts or patterns of behavior that I described and topic banning me without merit. I employed IAR to prevent an even larger disruption that is described in policy because it appears to me to be absolutely against one of our community’s pillars. No small group of involved editors can justify that there is consensus to overrule a policy nor one of our pillars. This apparently has been done numerous times to my submissions by the same editor. The issues with that page history make it impossible to discuss my situation with other involved editors with the diffs and proof that are required in such discussion. The pages history would vindicate me against further false accusations by these same editors and show that specific problems and concerns for which I was blamed that existed at AfD had been corrected prior to MfD and more importantly, that I was not the editor responsible for putting them there in the first place as has been incorrectly asserted by these editors at AfD and after. That is why I purposely ignored the Ban. In my view, necessity under the common law (the established law where I live) is very similar to [[WP:IAR]]. It doesn’t block an accusation nor an arrest or imprisonment. It is never a “get out of jail free card”. However, necessity defenses prevent any conviction and punishment whenever the situation was not caused by a defendant, they could not accomplish the same objective using a less offensive alternative available to them, and the problem sought to be avoided was more heinous than the unlawful act perpetrated to avoid it. ===My understanding=== The community agrees that myself and a limited number of editors need to work together but are having a content dispute. Certain involved editors have made claims about content but have thwarted any and all procedures to rectify them. Rather that adhering to established WP policy that could determine consensus, they have raised dubious concerns and then moved every content discussion into a forum that is not set up to determine the validity of content. Consensus of the community is that Content issues should NOT be raised at ANI for the very reasons I have described. The simple fact is that no editor was able to provide a single example of my alleged edits that were shown to not improve WP. The assertions come from a concerned editor that as I will discuss below who knew the allegations were baseless, and unfounded. These concerns were disputed by the numerous other editors at ANI who reviewed them and who provided well-founded examples (with links) to support the exact opposite opinion. To restate, not one example has been presented of any edits that I made did not improve Wikipedia. The community has agreed that determining consensus requires adherence to all WP policies -each of which already have community consensus. Consensus cannot be reached by ignoring our policies. Ignoring WP policy is the definition of Local consensus. It is impossible to discuss the my WP Block without discussing the (overly broad) Topic Ban (of “Weapons” and “Japan”). *I understand that I was blocked because I made a 2nd talk page edit during a ban that purposefully ignored two editors that I have shown with specific diffs to have a history of unfounded personal attacks against me and had either less than honest or had purposefully misled the community as described on my talk page The first edit to that talk page was prior to me knowing about the ban. My second edit explained my first and a third edit explained my second. ===What I do not understand=== *I am not sure what lesson I am supposed to be learning by my block nor what parts of deleted content are in dispute. That leaves me with no idea of exactly what the community expects me to improve and no way to reassure other editors that my edits won't be problematic. *I do not understand why I was topic banned- Other than perhaps restoring my sandbox material which was seemingly deleted without application of policy and refusing to listen to certain editors who battled over content without discussion and will not review our sources. *I do not understand how or why my sandbox draft was deleted seemingly against all WP policy-other than adding new sources reliable to support it 1.5 hours prior to nomination. *I do not understand how, against all Wikipedia policy, a content dispute can be discussed or resolved without ever discussing that specific content- which has not been done to my knowledge even once- and each time it comes up instead is misrepresented and resolved exclusively in forums that never (or rarely ever) looks at content. *I do not understand how high quality policy-based arguments with quotes and diffs and examples can be ignored while baseless assertions by one editor can be seconded by other editors that seem too lazy to review them giving merit to obviously baseless assertions that lack the slightest evidence to support or verify it. Each of these issues could be easily dismissed by the briefest view of the edits, diffs, sources, or policies in question at any point. I’ve waited for the larger community to realize what is going with the other editor and decide on what needs to be done but that does not seem to be happening. ===Why I do not understand=== At MfD, the nominator falsely claimed that my draft material was # “my preferred version of disputed content," # that I had not condensed the material, and # that no immediate article with the material seemed likely. However, each one of those assertions was disproved in later discussions and both involved editors [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D#U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan.27s_southern_islands knew very well (here as one example)] that the sandbox material had been condensed by 1/3 and was being condensed by another 1/3 before it was deleted. Nevertheless, they and others continued to make the assertion that it had not been condensed. *The MfD closer ignored WP policy with a belief that that a sandbox must be to be main space article policy compliant (which it does not), she invented a non-existent time component that's inconsistent with policy (or a new WP policy), and purposefully ignored each of policy issues I raised in MfD and on her talk page: [[WP:UD]], [[WP:STALE]], [[WP:ABANDONED]], [[WP:FAKEARTICLE]]. The community was misled when she said that no policy argument was raised at MfD to retain it ''despite the indisputable fact each policy is clearly mentioned and/or quoted by me there'' and it is as plain as day for any editor to read: [[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRedHat#Userpage_drafts_of_Operation_Red_Hat]] ([[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/OpRed Hat]]) In closing she said that, “No policy argument has been raised for keeping this. Info was rightly deleted at AfD years ago as it is a huge mess of information unrelated to the actual topic, and has never been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace. We're not a webhost for deleted content so it's time for this to go.” ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2017 (UTC) ''It is '''clear''' that not one of the concerns raised at MfD actually applied to or was directed at '''my sandbox draft'''-which had been reedited and condensed into new articles over the last six months to comply with the concerns of the nominating editor''! [[User_talk:Premeditated_Chaos/Archive_11#Deletion_of_userspace_material]] “I agree with the nominator and the other two participants that the problems that caused the material to be deleted in mainspace are still present in the userfied copy, and my close specifically reflects that with the statement that the draft had not been improved such that it would be policy-compliant in mainspace.” PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 26 August 2017 As you can see above, the closing editor spoke ONLY of the Userfied copy however, she deleted BOTH the userfied Copy AND my updated sandbox draft. Then she would not clarify any of the perceptions she had about my sandbox draft (contrary to all evidence) in order for me to go forward as her concerns as were applied to my sandbox draft made no sense. *The MfD closing editor said I should go to deletion review- which I did. However, all of the policy concerns I raised at Deletion Review were also purposefully ignored (the closer went out of their way to close it without reading it and decided that I should not be allowed to fix an errant faulty insertion). There was no hint that the review of the deletion was closed “to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal was applied consistently and fairly.” It was apparently closed out of sheer laziness: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2017_August_30 Closure review DRV of JohnVR4 userspace Sandbox drafts] “Ignoring the [[WP:WALLOFTEXT]] from the nom, there's strong consensus here to endorse the deletion of these stale user drafts. – -- RoySmith (talk) August_30” It appears that the closer at Deletion Review commented that both drafts were deleted under STALE despite the diffs that showed that My sandbox had been recently edited only 1.5 hours prior to its nomination for deletion as stale or any other application of WP policy – a fact which no editor can argue against! Quality arguments that are put forth in order to determine consensus- cannot be ignored- which is the reason I feel that we are here. As shown, my Sandbox was edited with additional sources only 1.5 hours before it was was nominated at MfD as [[WP:STALE]]. I am not sure which part of the [[WP:STALE]] WP policy allows the complete deletion of my sandbox with 170 references without any discussion of content. MfD after a 5 month break and only 1.5 hours after the last edit that improved it with additional sources. I am unsure why I am sanctioned for editing in my sandbox or talk page. The deletion of my sandbox without any ability for me to edit the material was effectively a topic ban after MfD. I see no valid explanation of how that can happen yet that is precisely how my sandbox draft was deleted, repeatedly. MfD looked to be simply a vote or [[WP:VAGUEWAVE]] of mostly involved editors. Therefore, I asked for a review of the MfD determination for specific reasons and every single one of those quality policy arguments (yes, the format was all off) were purposefully ignored by the closer. That is also the reason I ignored the Mfd deletion of my sandbox which I can assume was one reason for the ban (I am unclear how that vote for a ban happened when my power was out for a week that ignored all of the quality arguments in opposition to it.) ===The issue to be resolved=== ''I was nominated for the ban by an editor trying resolve really absurd content issues that he cannot overcome in any other way.'' There was a content dispute with a deeply involved nominating editor who uses vague policy waves and an utter refusal to review sources to justify battleground editing and has given up on BRD. He removes sourced content to insert his POV. I have had a lot of difficulty with this behavior and it has generated tons of unnecessary discussion to try and fix. The behavior can be described as tendentious editing as shown below. Instead, my edits are deleted and challenged and endless discussion and countless meritless concerns materialize from thin air followed by the editors refusal to participate in further discussion while he goes to battle over that one word that is clearly present in the source to everyone but him. This has made it impossible to listen to or work with him. I’ve re-added disputed text based on discussions under [unexplained removal of sourced content] but the editor has even removed the source entirely and continues to remove the sourced text. This has resulted in an apparent Edit war based solely upon his ''entirely faulty assertions'' that these words are not in our sources. There may some type of a mental illness at work here. The disruption on this page over six months is 100% being caused by the involved editor who nominated my submissions for deletion and then nominated to block me. *The community needs to understand that ''No editor can legitimately argue that Camp SCHWAB is not in that source!’’ [https://web.archive.org/web/20161222235607/http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2001/06/04/national/u-s-eyed-okinawa-for-huge-offshore-base-in-mid-1960s/ From that source (It's from Japan Times- )]: “The document shows that the area off the U.S. Marine Corps’ ''Camp Schwab'' in the ''Henoko'' district on the east coast of Nago was most suitable for the ''offshore base'', taking into account Okinawa’s geography and weather conditions. It suggested building an offshore landfill facility with a 3,000-meter runway, a large military port ''and an integrated ammunition bunker capable of storing nuclear weapons.''” Discussion: [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Henoko.2F_Schwab.2F_Hansen.2F_nuke_depot.2F_and_relocation_plan]] *HE verifies that THIS IS THE ROOT OF OUR PROBLEM: Here the involved editor exclaims with asterisks and double exclamation points, “*The Sources Do Not State!!*” and makes edits to remove the sourced text. “Neither mentions the words 'Camp Schwab'. We run with WP:V here, and I am *strictly* paring you back to the details mentioned in the sources you cite. You appear to have a tendency to add material that isn't actually in the cited sources -- evident all the way back to the 2013 deletion debate. If you're going to add primary-source material so heavily, you need to stick quite closely to the sources and not infer or WP:SYNTH from them. Regards Buckshot06 (talk) 04:14, 26 March 2017 (UTC)” 07:05, 19 March 2017 (b) new secret depot sentences not sourced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054326&oldid=771039477] 18:53, 9 April 2017 remove discussions about base moves long after nuclear weapons removed [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=774632853&oldid=774632068] *There are many more interactions just like that one and I am just scratching the surface here… Any editor can that look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&action=history U.S. Nuclear weapons in Japan PAGE HISTORY] to see how much sourced content being deleted by that editor and every bit of it seems to be done with dubious reasoning. Our dispute(s) seemed to mostly resolve around [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf A source] that I have asked repeatedly to be reviewed by that editor. The editor refuses to review the sources and battles over the content. *Concerning an incident at a Pacific base involving an F-100 “interceptor” and the impact of incident on the removal of nuclear weapons from Asia. ''ANY other WP editor can easily verify this information or the presence of a single word in that source on page 6-7 in less than 10 seconds''. http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf Yet [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D#U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan.27s_southern_islands that editor] time after time would refused to look once at the source! ''No editor can legitimately argue that the Pacific base incident (possibly Okinawa) is not verifiable on pages 6-7 in [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf that source]!’’ Discussion:[[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Original_research.3F_.2F_synthesis.3F_removed.2C_failure_to_WP:BRD.3F discussion]] He will not discuss his concern except to tell me to quit flogging a dead horse! [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&action=history the pages history] 03:44, 20 September 2017 -remove incident that is not proven to have occurred in Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=801514968&oldid=801043813] 10:46, 7 August 2017 removal of incident that is not proven to be associated with Okinawa - WP:V [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=794334962&oldid=794316690] 04:14, 7 April 2017 considering WP:V, this para cannot be included, at least in this form [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=774240769&oldid=773960339] 05:00, 20 March 2017 remove incident that cannot be definitively linked to Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771205335&oldid=771170281] 07:06, 19 March 2017 should not have this here if it's not clearly re Okinawa [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054411&oldid=771054326] 07:10, 18 March 2017 remove F-100 incident; no clear evidence was on Okinawa; [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770891527&oldid=770890167] *Note the word ''Interceptor'' on page 7 of [http://www.nukestrat.com/us/CDI_BrokenArrowMonitor1981.pdf the source]. ''No editor can legitimately argue that the word INTERCEPTOR is not in that source!’’ 17:22, 19 March 2017 remove text about nuclear-armed interceptors, which does not appear to be cited; remove F-100 incident which cannot be conclusively linked to Okinawa); [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771117812&oldid=771116489] 07:05, 19 March 2017 air defence interceptors not sourced [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=771054326&oldid=771039477] 07:20, 18 March 2017 remove this sentence; can't find 'air defense interceptors' in any of the refs [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770892253&oldid=770891939] *This was another meritless content dispute that went on and on simply because he refused to review the sources followed by a dispute over the "nuclear capable missile (Genie)", then "Alert", then "Naha AFB", etc. etc. Discussion: [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie]] (and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Johnvr4#Air_defense_interceptors.2FGenie]) 17:16, 18 March 2017 neither source mentions Genie missiles [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan&type=revision&diff=770955610&oldid=770955304] etc. *That went next into a dispute over a meritless concern about a terrorist threat vs, the non disclosure policy mentioned in the source which the involved editor misquoted and did not read. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Terrorist_threat_and_weapons_removed_in_1972-_Apparent_POV discussed here] *''At that point, I was threatened with ANI action after presenting two in disputable quotes from our source that directly contradicted the editor’s terrorist threat concerns.'' Yet, again that editor refused to further review our source. Two quotes: “The motivation behind the NCND was the increasing need to fend off queries from foreign governments – rather than protecting against terrorists and Soviet military planning, as was later claimed by U.S. officials. The new policy soon became an important factor in the U.S approach to the security treaty negotiations with Japan." and "Beyond the willingness of the Japanese and U.S. governments to “turn a blind eye” to the violation of Japan’s nuclear ban, it was the Neither Confirm Nor Deny policy that more than anything made the deceit possible. While officially intended to protect the ship against terrorists and complicate enemy military planning, the policy really served as a smoke-screen under which U.S. Navy warships could get access to foreign ports regardless of the nuclear policy of the host country. Given those quotes, ''No editor can legitimately argue that a mid-1970s terror threat report was the purpose of the 1950 NCND policy from that source! (Nor can the perceived threat in a 1974 report be tied to the removal from Okinawa which was planned around 1969 and executed by 1973)’’ *In response to the correction of that editor over that content, ''he threatened me with ANI action to sanction me (now realized). [[Talk:U.S._nuclear_weapons_in_Japan#Terrorist_threat_and_weapons_removed_in_1972-_Apparent_POV]] (and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Johnvr4#Apparent_POV]) “When I file the AN/I over your WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES reliance, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, and battleground reverting editing, you will be notified, in accordance with policy. In my considered opinion, you should be writing research pieces for publication that allow you to state polemics, not trying to operate on a site that is supposed to be neutral. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:44, 2 April 2017 (UTC)”'' *I do not feel that it would be possible for any WP editor to present any quality argument to dispute my well-evidenced assertions. Therefore, why would any administrator blindly accept any of that editors assertions at MfD or ANI or anywhere else at face value? If my editing was so problematic then then has not one single example of any of my edits containing WP:OR, WP:PRIMARYSOURCES interpretation, WP:POV, WP:OWN, WP:SYNTH, as alleged at MfD or ANI and why is that editor the only one removing well-sourced content that I added to the main space? (I think I've seen once case where an editor asked for a better sourced) ===Discussion=== What does one editor do when an administrators or a group of administrators will not read the source and wants to ridiculously edit war over solidly verified content and turn what should be a kindergarten level content dispute into an ANI concern about my behavior? I have been temporarily blocked in the past. Each time this happens, no one figures out until long after I’m blamed and sanctioned that I was in fact correct. This was the case with my first block where a tight group of editors were actively abusing a source and repeatedly reinserted text over a period of years that came directly from a conspiracy web site [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory/Archive_6#Brad_Steiger.27s_book]. They also misrepresented that source by ignoring text about the 1990s origin in order to remove it at RSN [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_164#Brad_Steiger_book]. That happened. No editor can argue that was not the case. I wear the experience proudly should any editor want to look at it again. I know I’m right about this content (and the presence of a single word) being in the source and there is simply no amount arguments that can ever surmount it. I know ANY editor can look at and see that I’m right but to date, they will not do it and those involved are not willing to further embarrass themselves in a RfC or content discussion. For this, I get blocked because some editors made baseless assertions that are believed by lots of other editors without the slightest glance at the source, diff, quote, evidence, etc or anything else. *That we have a content dispute is an insurmountable argument. That these disputes are disruptive to WP is unanimous. That opposing editors cannot read the source nor seem to come up with a single valid concern that has enough merit for ANY of the next steps in dispute resolution simply because he will not acknowledge whether plain text words appear in our sources is frustrating any possible improvements. This happens time and time again and I am powerless to stop it. *''Each and every time content is challenged for dubious reasoning or needs to be discussed, the conversation is always moved to a forum that was never intended to resolve content problems.'' ''“In forums such as ANI content is not usually reviewed and is typically ignored from discussion.”'' [Which I didn’t know until now...] *Therefore, content assertions and the counter arguments discussed there are never reviewed by administrators. These forums require quotes and diffs and policies which I provided to counter unfounded arguments that were known to be false when they were first raised and would be proven false if the content was ever once reviewed. However, my sandbox had already been deleted at that point (after MfD) which made it impossible to see for a non-administrator like me to provide diffs. the specific merits or concerns of sourced content is never reviewed prior to deletion and meritless conduct concerns are brought up that could be easily disproved by reviewing content. its a Catch-22 and the end result is that application of WP policy fails and the quality of arguments for deletion or retention is skipped entirely. I am now topic banned and cannot present nor discuss a single issue! It is past the proper time for other administrators to review my valid arguments, and the assertions with evidence and diffs. Ignoring them or validating an editors meritless concerns under a guise of consensus will be challenged per WP policy whether it is now or in six months! *Administrators were asked to do these things but didn’t: #determine to what extent additional subject knowledge may be necessary to resolve the dispute. #Identify the key participants in an article or topic area. #Examine accusations that are being made. It is particularly important that any accusations be accompanied with evidence. Review the diffs to ensure that they back up the accusations. #Examine the situation in detail so as to build a complete picture. Just looking at a few diffs may not give sufficient context to understand the editing environment that led to the accusations. A superficial view of the situation may also play into the hands of those who bait others into lashing out. #Check contribution histories. #Identify Tag-team editors. #Determine whether administrator action is required. Wikipedia Policy says my edits are not [[WP:DISRUPT|disruptive]] but his seem to be. “While notable minority opinions are welcome when verifiable through reliable sources, and constructive editors occasionally make mistakes, sometimes a Wikipedia editor creates long-term problems by persistently editing a page or set of pages with information which is not verifiable through reliable sources or insisting on giving undue weight to a minority view.” *It is content that needs to be discussed to resolve disputes *The editor complaining that my edits are problematic or fail verification does not appear to be competent enough to make such assertions. ''THAT is the root of the problem.'' *These editors have deleted my userspace material (with both the userfied version and my recent sandbox updates) and with it any hope of providing diffs in discussion because all traces of what was removed are deleted and not visible to me. *The block and topic ban should be lifted because they never should have been applied. *My sandbox draft should be restored because it was deleted without the slightest merit. [[User:Johnvr4|Johnvr4]] ([[User talk:Johnvr4#top|talk]]) 19:02, 22 October 2017 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

• non admin comment--Hi, John, I would sincerely request you to read through WP:NOTTHEM.Regards:)Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 19:17, 22 October 2017 (UTC)