User talk:Seraphim System

15:19:27, 15 June 2017 review of submission by TooTallSid

• TooTallSid (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Dosho Port (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I reread all the suggested Wikipedia pages about article creation. I tuned up my refs and citations. I asked "a question on the Articles for creation help desk".. I understand the respond that I got from worldbruce, but it just doesn't seem to fit with the world of American Zen. This is a small world with an internal reputational system different than that espoused by worldbruce. I reviewed a number of related Zen master Wikipedia pages:

• Dainin Katagiri
• Shunryū Suzuki
• Nonin Chowaney
• James Ishmael Ford
• Steve Hagen

They seem to have a comparable level of notability and sources.

Is there no place for American Zen in Wikipedia?

16:19:21, 17 June 2017 review of submission by EditorSTW

• EditorSTW (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:Save the Water (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hello,

I was wondering why you declined the Save the Water (STW) Wikipedia page submission. If you could provide specific reasons, that would be great!

Suraj

Trouted

You've been whacked with a WikiMinnow.. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you might have done something silly.

You got hit with trout god damn it stop wasting your food

Please comment on Talk:Google's Ideological Echo Chamber

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Please comment on Talk:Bukhara

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVIII, October 2017

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new featured and A-class content Book review: Nick-D and Hawkeye7 look at Australian involvement on the Western Front in 1918 and in post-war New Guinea Op-ed: TomStar81 on the October Revolution Timeline: This month in World War I

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Talk:Turkey

After some expenditure of thoughts, I have revised my RFC closure slightly and added a new sub-section.Feel free to re-visit:)As a side-note, the t/p disc. seem to be not gaining any impetus and it will be prob. wise to take the RFC route (as mentioned in my addition).Also, please ping the prev. discussants, if you launch one!Regards:)Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 08:18, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

I would prefer RS/n or especially mediated discussion where someone trusted can review the source-based arguments. Seraphim System ^(talk) 13:52, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

I don't know if this is your first close but you can't close an RfC with a blanket statement that "words" can't be reinserted. That is not what the proposal asked you to do. Parliamentary democracy and democracy are NOT the same thing. and the first one was not even discussed in the RfC. You are supervoting on a sourcing dispute between two editors (one who has made anti-Muslim comments on other article discussions) and you are wrong about the policies including WP:CRYSTAL and WP:AGEMATTERS. Sources do not need to be "updated", please read WP:AGEMATTERS again and stop making things up. Further you can not just disregard our policies including WP:V and say "common sense" - Several other editors have voiced the same concerns. What it looks like is we don't need sources to make REDFLAG edits. The editors need to use sources, not their own personal definitions of democracy. Invoking CommonSense here to circumvent WP:V is an abuse and nothing in your revision has corrected the substantial problems with your first close, in fact you seem to have made them worse. Seraphim System ^(talk) 13:59, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Which by the way, it does not help your CommonSense argument that the editors do not even seem to know what democracy means [1] - CommonSense does not mean we should post unsourced things based on the biases of our editing pool. In fact, REDFLAG is more appropriate here given the concerns raised by several established editors. There is nothing about "democracy" as an abstract concept that precludes a majority agreeing to Kill all Jews, for instance. Or even a supermajority deciding that it is such an important moral principle that it should be protected by "supermajority". What editors are listing are a number of democratic norms that have been agreed upon in some Western nations through internal processes. There is no guarantee that you will LIKE a democratically produced outcome. This is the FIRST thing you will learn about democracy if you study it at the university level. Seraphim System ^(talk) 14:10, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Nope, it's something like my 50th(oor more than that) close.And, I very well know about the purviews and scope of the closure.See you at ANI:)Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 16:14, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Since this has been posted at AN/I, I think it would be better to not continue the discussion in two places at once. Seraphim System ^(talk) 16:18, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Linda Sarsour

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Your draft article, Draft:Cite IsrSC/doc

Hello, Seraphim System. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "doc".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Legacypac (talk) 11:17, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

This template was published to the userspace and is in use on at least one article I created - if there is also a draft, I don't object to deletion. Seraphim System ^(talk) 13:51, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

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Page moves

Hi Seraphim System !

Its hard to come by Wikipedians who are involved in Turkish related articles these days. Kudos to you for keeping at it ! After your important proposal some time back on the Circassian Genocide article, i noticed recently that the Turkish wikipedia version of the article bore the title Çerkes Sürgünü [2] (Circassian migration) instead of Çerkes Soykırımı (Circassian Genocide). As my Turkish is limited (so i have only made few edits in Turkish wikipedia) it has meant that i cannot do page moves. Your a busy guy, so if time permits and if its possible on your part could you move the page to Çerkes Soykırımı. Another page also in need of a move is Dolgaş [3] to its proper Turkish spelling of Dılgaş. If you have any queries contact me on my talkpage or alternatively email me, whatever suits you. Best.Resnjari (talk) 09:52, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

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Deir Yassin massacre

You really ought to read the article's edit history before you jump into an edit war like that. Blindjustice has been adding unsourced and poorly sourced material to that article for years, and she or he has been reverted for trying to add that letter since (at least) 2011. The last time she or he edited the article's talk page was in 2007, despite being reverted at least ten times that I can see (five of them in the past year). — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:20, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

What is it that you are claiming was poorly sourced? Seraphim System ^(talk) 12:32, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

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Talkback

Hello, Seraphim System. You have new messages at Talk:Turkey.
Message added 16:56, 13 October 2017 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

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Edit warring at Armenian Genocide

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

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Please comment on Talk:Political appointments by Donald Trump

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block

EdJohnston can you explain how those edits (which are not reverts) violate 1RR under adminacct? Seraphim System ^(talk) 05:12, 14 October 2017 (UTC) Seraphim System ^(talk) 05:12, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

From WP:EW, "To revert is to undo the action of another editor." Nearly any edit that removes or rearranges article text can be seen as a revert, especially if it forms part of an ongoing dispute. The only thing that can't be a revert is the addition of brand new information that has never been in the article before. EdJohnston (talk) 05:21, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: Enjoy the sound of your own echo. I know it's a rather dramatic moment for me to walk out, like there are moments where who we are and will be as a tribe, as a people, as individuals are defined by the choices we make. But there are few things in this world that grate on a constitutional law scholars nerves more then poor judgment and my patience is beyond tried. Seraphim System ^(talk) 05:52, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: It looks like my IP address was autoblocked after I posted the first message to my talk from my mobile. (I didn't make any edits from IP while blocked) - it looks like the block has been lifted but the autoblock of my IP is still in place (I can't edit my userpage, etc.), can you confirm this? I am still getting annoying pings so the sooner I can get the retirement template in place on this end, the better it would be for me. Seraphim System ^(talk) 05:18, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

CSD

Seraphimblade There are a few articles that I have created where no other editors have made major edits. They are entirely my work, and I want them removed. I believe that Wikipedia has failed to uphold its obligations to me as a volunteer editor, and as a courtesy, without dragging this out, I would ask that my request be honored. Should I submit the request through CSDs as author requests deletion? (Obviously I can't submit the request now because of the block.) Seraphim System ^(talk) 17:41, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Your block is not indefinite. You can tag them for deletion once you're no longer blocked. Whether they should be deleted will be at the discretion of the admin who reviews the request. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 19:11, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Racism and Bias

I won't work on a project where the Turkish/Ottoman articles are cited to sources like Bat Ye'or. Bat Ye'or is not a recognized scholar or expert on anything. Neither are people like Pam Geller, or Brigitte Gabriel. If these right wing racist sources were anti-Israel, anti-Jewish, anti-American, anti-Black, anti-Gay - we would ban the editors (and in the case of anti-Americanism possibly even imprison them.) The only difference here is that they are "pro-Israel", whatever that means, and thus they are tolerated. While the Encyclopedia may be written in the English language, it does not reflect current English-language academic scholarship, which regards most of these views as thoroughly odious. I am not going to "pretend" that these are legitimate sources of information or legitimate "content disputes". As an American, I also would not contribute to an "Encyclopedia" that cited Ayman al-Zawahiri as a legitimate scholar. There are people in this world who recognize him as one, but I am not one of them. There are judgment calls in life, where right and wrong is determined only by a "complicit surround". I think this point is fairly obviously and doesn't really need to be explained further. Seraphim System ^(talk) 18:24, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

‎Robert McClenon What would help is if an admin could lift the block so I could tag the articles that I've created and request them for deletion. It is fairly irritating that I have to wait for the block to expire to do this. I am going to retire the account here on English Wikipedia once this is done anyway, with a formal written request to WMF that the admins here be required to undergo cultural diversity and sensitivity training (if they are going to resolve disputes in controversial areas. I understand that you feel I am "ranting" but I only want to be done with this Project - I never imposed any "conditions" and I think that is fairly clear from what I wrote. I want the articles that I created removed from this Project, and sooner would be better for me. Seraphim System ^(talk) 23:43, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

You can tag the articles when the block expires. However, you have no inherent right to have any content that you contributed deleted, because you did accept the terms of the copyleft. Submitting any sort of a request to the WMF is probably either a waste of paper and ink or a waste of electrical energy or both. (Who will provide the stupid training, anyway?) I haven't yet seen anybody imprisoned for anti-Americanism in this decade. You can tag the articles when the block expires, and there is no guarantee that any content that you contributed will be removed. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:23, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Regarding cultural sensitivity and diversity training, it is fairly routine and basic for U.S. companies and institutions and I think there are consulting firms that do this. I know Wikipedia is an unusual organization but that doesn't mean it would not be beneficial. Do you feel it's significant whether someone was arrested in this decade, or some previous decade? (Rhetorical question.) Providing material support for terrorism is still a federal crime - while I suppose it is a fair criticism to say that this does not always mean anti-Americanism, and would include some organizations who are not engaged in direct hostilities against the United States, some forms of anti-Americanism could (in my opinion) be construed as such, and possibly covered by other federal statutes as well, though I have not kept up to date with the latest details. Seraphim System ^(talk) 03:55, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

I’d very much appreciate it if you would first, before leaving,be more specific about which articles use the two sources you mention as I can see that for most purposes we shouldn’t use them. RSN would be nice but you’d have to be specific about what statements they are being used for. Thanks. 06:53, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Doug, I am actually putting together a more complete account of what problems I actually see with regards to sourcing in areas where I have been involved. I can make that available for you and anyone else who wants to review it when its finished. But I am tired of disputing and arguing about it and have stated my intention to retire, and I am standing by that. The bias (and denial of the bias) on WP is more then I can handle. I don't think WP is what people think it is, I don't think people read these articles in detail and I don't think it has the significant impact that some think it does. I don't think it's worth going to war over it, but some do, and the effect of that is a net loss for scholarship, which is an end that I pursue as its own reward. It is a loss for scholars, but I'm not really optimistic that things will improve here. Seraphim System ^(talk) 07:13, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Autoblock

This user's request to have autoblock on their IP address lifted has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Seraphim System (block log • active blocks • global blocks • autoblocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

127.0.0.1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

---

Block message:

Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "Seraphim System". The reason given for Seraphim System's block is: "Edit warring: at Armenian Genocide per a complaint at...

• Blocking administrator: EdJohnston (talk • blocks)

---

Accept reason: As you say, your main block has expired. Yamla (talk) 11:06, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

It looks like the block has expired, I don't know why I was autoblocked - I didn't edit from my ip, only from my mobile to post the ADMINACCT request to my own talk page. After that I think I was autoblocked (and I submitted the UTRS request) - I have been able to edit my talk page from my computer during the block, but not from my mobile. I think something just went wrong, and I am really trying to wrap this up, would appreciate if this could be resolved quickly, Thanks Seraphim System ^(talk) 05:32, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

A great example of unsourced content I just found (I wonder how long this has been live)

"Nor may the Essenes be classed among the order of ascetics. While some of their institutions, notably celibacy, appear to lend support to the theory that would class them as such, their fundamental doctrines show no connection with the pessimism that is the essential factor in Asceticism. They were political indifferentists; they were but little, if at all, under the sway of national aspirations. They stood for a universal fellowship of the pure and just. They set but little store by the goods of this earth, and were members of a communistic fraternity. But it is inadmissible to construe from these elements of their hopes and habits the inference that in them is to be found a genuine Jewish order of monks and ascetics.

A stronger case against the theory that Judaism is a very uncongenial soil for the growth of Asceticism might be made out by an appeal to the later Jewish mystics, the Ḥasidim and Cabalists of various forms, all ecstatic fantastics, and—this is a point that must not be overlooked—more or less strongly under the influence of distinctly non-Jewish conceits. See below, Examples of Jewish Asceticism.

Looking upon this life as essentially good, according to Gen. i. 31; upon the human body as a servant of the spirit, and therefore not corrupt; upon the joys of earth as God-given and therefore to be cherished with gratitude toward the divine giver; having a prayer for every indulgence in food and drink; a benediction for every new experience of whatever nature, gladsome or sad—the Jew partook with genuine zest of the good cheer of life, without, however, lapsing into frivolity, gluttony, or intemperance. His religion, that taught him to remember his dignity as one made in the image of God, and to hold his body in esteem as the temple of God's spirit within, a dwelling of the Most Holy, "a host," as Hillel put it, "for the guest, the soul," kept the Jew equidistant from the pole of self-torturing pessimism, from the mortification of the flesh under the obsession of its sinfulness and foulness, and from the other pole of levity and sensuousness.

Never intemperate in drink or food, he sought and found true joy in the consecration of his life and all of its powers and opportunities to the service of his God, a God who had caused the fruit of the vine to grow and the earth to give forth the bread, a God who created the light and sent the darkness, a God who, as a Talmudical legend—one of the many with Elijah for their subject—has it, reserves paradise "for them that cause their fellows to laugh" (Ta'an. 22a). The most beautiful saying of the rabbis about Asceticism is: "Man will have to give account in the future for every lawful enjoyment offered to him which he has ungratefully refused" (Rab in Yer. Ḳid., at the close); compare TanḦ., end, "The wicked in his life is considered as one dead," etc." From Asceticism in Judaism

I think I feel a benediction coming on right now. I really wish someone would lift this autoblock so I can retire, its important for me. Seraphim System ^(talk) 06:27, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi

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Discussion at Talk:Turkey#RfC--lead

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Turkey#RfC--lead. Template:Z48 You would probably decline the offer but I would sincerely hope that you change your mind:)Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 12:02, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Turkey

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Balfour

Hi Seraphim, thanks for your comments at the FAC a few days ago. Are you planning to make any more comments, and/or are you supportive of its promotion? Onceinawhile (talk) 07:22, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

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Armenian Genocide

For Hilmar Kaiser, "the Ottoman authorities refused to provide food and water to the victims, increasing the mortality rate", At the Crossroads of Der Zor: Death, Survival, and Humanitarian Resistance, by Hilmar Kaiser, page 24-25.

As for "Muslim men married Armenian women, while the deaths of their husbands were not recorded.", The Armenian Genocide: The Essential Reference Guide, by Alan Whitehorn, page 155.

Instead of removing information, which you have been doing since 11 October, you could search for information and supporting references. The above information took about 5 minutes. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:37, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

I checked the source that was cited. I can only infer from your answer that it was nowhere in the source that was cited. I was specifically source checking to see if the source used the term "married" because Christian women did not always marry and I wanted to be sure this was correct. What I removed was the language "obtained" which is Orientalist fantasy language about Christian women (usually not written by Christian women or other female writers, who don't describe their experiences this way.) I'm not sure if I need to say more about this, but editors working on this topic should be mindful of representing the experiences of women in a way that is consistent with currently accepted standards in academic writing. In this case I see the text uses the terms "kidnapped" and "involuntary servitude" - this is a sensitive topic, and honestly I think the conduct of the "regular" editors on the article has been abominable.Seraphim System ^(talk) 02:41, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

• "...and honestly I think the conduct of the "regular" editors on the article has been abominable."

Compared to unilaterally removing information instead of using the talk page or finding sources yourself? --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:50, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

None of the changes I made should have caused this many problems. I have studied Lemkin - it is mentioned twice that he is Polish. The content does need to be better organized, which is what my edit summary said. Did anyone post on my talk page or ask before accusing me of genocide denial. No. The article is poorly organized, it is far too long and parts of it are not well-written. And instead of working to improve it, editors decided they would prefer it if I was blocked for edit warring. And thus, it failed GA review. I think if they had worked with me instead the article would have passed. I think the tone of the reverts speak for themselves, it's plain to see. Seraphim System ^(talk) 03:03, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide

That paragraph is on page "liv" of the book cited.

"Those deportees that survived the death march and reached the Syrian Desert found themselves trapped in a system of camps that stretched along the Euphrates to Der Zor. in the camps, the Ottoman authorities exposed them to contagious diseases like typhus which killed hundreds daily. Refusal to provide water and food increased the high mortality among the emaciated victims. Here as well, Muslims were eager to obtain Armenian women. Authorities registered such marriages but did not record the deathss of the former Armenian husbands."

https://books.google.com/books?id=xCHMFHQRNtYC&pg=PR35#v=onepage&q=liv&f=false Ninetoyadome (talk) 06:31, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

OK, I think we have in the above comments a more detailed source about the women - I wanted to see if obtain was used in the source because it should be in quotes in our article if it is restored. I wasn't able to find it but the sources posted in the above discussion have clearer information - not all of the women were married, etc. Seraphim System ^(talk) 06:37, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement

Hi. I just wanted to leave you a courtesy notice that I have closed the report concerning Jytdog at AE. You left this comment on the report and I can't see how it is related. I wonder if you made an edit on the wrong page or something? At any rate, it is unlikely to be seen now, so if it is something you feel is important and should be followed up, you will probably have to re-raise it in another forum. GoldenRing (talk) 15:33, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

I wil post a link to his talk page some time (this was posted from my mobile) - I hate editing from my phone. I was expressing support for the otcome but EdJohnston had recently been involved in an admin action where he applied the Shrike definition "revert". Because of this recent action on Armenian Genocide I think he should have had a chance to comment. It's important that admins are consistent and follow community consensus about the definition of "revert" (and know what that consensus is). Unfortunately, article development was effectively frozen because of the incorrect definition of "revert". I thought this had been rejected by the community precisely because editors have used it as a tactic of intimidation to freeze article development on controversial topics. Since it has come up again I was hoping this discussion would unambiguously restate the community's consensus, and if there was a mistake here I should receive an apology as well (but that is a separate issue). Seraphim System ^(talk) 19:04, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Catalan Republic (2017)

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Oil on troubled waters...

Per WP:TPO, people should not delete other editor's comments on talk pages. Specifically it states "The basic rule—with some specific exceptions outlined below—is that you should not edit or delete the comments of other editors without their permission." And per WP:REDACT, you shouldn't remove your own comments after they've been replied to. If you no longer want the comment to stand, you can strike through your comments, but it's really not a good idea to remove both your own comments plus others' replies to them, as things are happening at Talk:Greece. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:29, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

OK, but I am hatting it not changing it - I asked Dr. K to post sources he mentioned in a revert, he has clearly seen the post and not replied. Since I opened the discussion, I think I can judge when it is closed, and it was a very narrow question to begin with. This editor has serious WP:BATTLEGROUND issues. I don't see why it is a problem if I close a discussion when it becomes clear that the editor is not going to reply to the question I asked him. There is literally no one else who can tell me what sources Dr. K meant in his edit summary. Seraphim System ^(talk) 00:32, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Seraphim_System reported by User:Dr.K. (Result: ). Thank you. Dr. K. 00:30, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

AN3

If you try to reformat the report again you'll be blocked. Add comments, but don't mess with the format or content. Acroterion (talk) 01:34, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Can you just make sure my comments are all in one section at the end and that you haven't removed any? This is really ridiculous. Seraphim System ^(talk) 01:36, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

What part of "don't reformat a complaint that is made about you" don't you understand. Add comments, don't try to fix it, and don't expect others to adjust it to your liking. You are inches from a disruption block. Acroterion (talk) 01:40, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

November 2017

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 60 hours for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Drmies (talk) 01:44, 2 November 2017 (UTC)