User talk:Frze

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Thursday, 21. February 2019
Über diese Vorlage Uhrzeit: 00:43 [update]
Es ist jetzt 00:43 Mitteleuropäischer Sommerzeit/Winterzeit
Commons Uhrzeit - generiert aus Bildern dieses Sets [update]

 Mentor: John of Reading

 Pages with citation errors ---

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Drop the stick. (And do not to answer User The Darts wrong unqualified chatter.)



CleanupBarnstar.PNG The Cleanup Barnstar
For your efforts in tackling Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting -- John of Reading (talk) 11:17, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Kindness Barnstar Hires.png The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thank you very much for your help with Andrew Foster (musician). KatiePerrin26 (talk) 21:15, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you![edit]

Red Kitten 01.jpg

Thanks for your suggestion regarding the citation for the Universal Declaration of the Rights of the Child.

Penelopecrump (talk) 16:54, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks --Frze > talk 16:41, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
Thank you for pointing out the edit A reference problem Frze. :)

I appreciate your commitment... Cheers! K¥U talk04:50, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. --Frze > talk 07:11, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Citation Barnstar Hires.png The Citation Barnstar
...for rescuing refs from uncharted depths. Ruby Murray 11:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

John of Reading[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Frze. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Help desk.
Message added John of Reading (talk) 09:17, 1 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

What's wrong with this page? It always appears in Category:Pages with missing references list. Thanks --Frze (talk) 08:38, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

It's a side-effect of this nonsense edit, which has now been fixed. Pages using Template:SI units of length may turn up in the error category until the job queue gets round to them; or you can force the software to rebuild the page thoroughly by doing a null edit. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:51, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
If you create User:Frze/common.js with these two lines...
importScript('User:Anomie/previewtemplatelastmod.js'); // Linkback: [[User:Anomie/previewtemplatelastmod.js]]
...then when you edit a page, the "View templates on this page" section at the bottom gives you much more information about the templates, including the date, time and edit summary of the most recent edit. So if a page has been damaged by a template edit, you can quickly see which template it was; and if a page is in an error category, you can quickly see if a related template has been damaged and then restored. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:58, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

STiki Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Rollback[edit]

How is it possible to revert two edits in one step? Please be so kind to explain it to me in simple English. Thank you very much in anticipation. --Frze (talk) 16:41, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi there, Frze. I'm using STiki to revert the edits, so it does two edits at once automatically. The same thing can be done with the Wikipedia:Rollback tool. Very simple to do, hope this helps you! Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Rollback HairTalk 16:50, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks a lot --Frze (talk) 16:55, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to STiki![edit]

Hello, Frze, and welcome to STiki! Thank you for your recent contributions using our tool. We at STiki hope you like using the tool and decide to continue using it in the future. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Here are some pages which are a little more fun:

  • The STiki leaderboard - See how you are faring against other STiki users!
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We hope you enjoy maintaining Wikipedia with STiki! If you have any questions, problems, or suggestions don't hesitate to drop a note over at the STiki talk page and we'll be more than happy to help. Again, welcome, and thanks! West.andrew.g (developer) and  Tentinator  09:43, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

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Cite error Plasmodium falciparum biology[edit]

Thank you for the heads up on this problem. This might be tricky to fix. While I use a unique refname for all the referenes I find that more than occasionally some persons(s) try to shorten these. For example ref name= ABC123 becomes shortened to "ABC". This might be fine for short pages but not for one with 500+ refs. While I can and will fix the problem for now, I dont know how to prevent this happening again. DrMicro (talk) 14:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I was wrong. The problem was a malformed ref. It is now working. DrMicro (talk) 14:46, 10 August 2013 (UTC)


Re your reversion of my edit to replace the text of the lead. The new text was broadly agreed on the talk page as representing an improvement. The fact that it left some technical errors behind does not seem good reason to revert it – you could actually have sorted out the citation errors left behind, or explained to me how to do that. I have never come across this bizarre technical hangover when replacing text before and acknowledged the (minor) problem in my own edit summary. If I've removed the text in the editing window, including the text that appears to provide the references, could you please explain how to remove the cite errors, which suggest that the references exist in some meta-space somewhere? As noted, this is not something I have come across before and seems distinctly user-unfriendly. N-HH talk/edits 18:32, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Re Ihre Rückkehr meiner bearbeiten, um den Text der Leitung ersetzen. Der neue Text wurde im Großen und Ganzen auf der Diskussionsseite als eine Verbesserung vereinbart. Die Tatsache, dass einige technische Fehler zurückgelassen nicht guten Grund, es wieder scheinen - man könnte tatsächlich haben die Fehler Zitat hinterließ sortiert, oder mir erklärt, wie man das macht. Ich habe noch nie über diese bizarre technische Kater kommen, wenn das Ersetzen von Text vor und bestätigte die (kleine) Problem in meinem eigenen edit Zusammenfassung. Wenn ich den Text in das Editor-Fenster entfernt, einschließlich der Texte, die die Referenzen geben scheint, könnten Sie bitte erklären, wie man die Cité Fehler, was bedeutet, dass die Verweise in einigen Meta-Raum existieren irgendwo vorschlagen entfernen? Wie bereits erwähnt, ist dies nicht etwas, was ich über vor gekommen sind und scheint deutlich user-unfreundlich.


Hi Frze, as I have noticed you added this image in the German Wikipedia, could me explain how it works with images from Commons there? Recently I tried to add a couple of images ([1], [2]) with an identical licence to the relevant articles there, here and here, but I was reverted both the times with edit summaries as "Bitte Bildlizenz beachten" and "weder ist das frei...". Thanks in advance if you could explain me in what I was wrong. Cavarrone 09:19, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

STiki emergency[edit]

danke für den Hinweis,[edit]

ich war der Überzeugung, external links dürften nur von Fußoten aus "starten" (zumindesten kenne ich aus de.wp nix anderes). Wenn das bei en.wp für den Abschnitt 'Literature' anders geregelt / gewünscht ist : OK, kann ich so machen. --Neun-x (talk) 07:55, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Problems with fixing broken reference names - don't erase them[edit]

I am very happy to see you are working on the backlog of pages with broken reference names. But don't get the pages off the list by erasing the problem references. That just makes the problem worse - converting referenced material that someone has goofed up into unreferenced material. Don't erase the offending broken reference as you did at Jado and Just Knud Qvigstad. Don't comment out the reference as you did at North American Wetlands Conservation Act. User:AnomieBOT 's Orphan Reference Fixer can handle many of these. Those that can't be usually take some time and research but can be fixed. Thanks. StarryGrandma (talk) 21:05, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Administrators' noticeboard notice[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding changes you are making while fixing broken reference names. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive815#Broken reference names being removed from articles rather than fixed. Thank you. —StarryGrandma (talk) 21:34, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Saw the ANI thread. It looks like someone's misunderstood what you're doing, but I do need to ask you to hold off on one thing: instead of removing the citation entirely, like you did here, would you mind simply commenting it out, as you did here? I'm concerned that removing the reference entirely makes it seem as if the text never had a citation, while a commented-out reference shows that a broken citation was present; the latter seems like it would be easy to fix. For example, see the first "here" link: I found another citation that's plainly the same as the one you removed, largely because the ref name made it clear what was supposed to be invoked. Hiding the citation instead of removing it will enable editors quickly to look for possible fixes, while removing it will force them to go through the page history — if they even realise that there was once a citation at the spot in question. Nyttend (talk) 21:53, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Please don't comment out references either. AnomieBOT 's Orphan Reference Fixer fixes many of these problems, and won't be able to see them. If the references are hidden, they won't show up for editors who work on the backlogs either. StarryGrandma (talk) 22:18, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Broken reference names being removed from articles rather than fixed[edit]

resolved unless further problems occur.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Frze (talk · contribs) has been working on the "pages with broken reference names" backlog and making some good fixes. However, he has also been "correcting" the problems by either commenting out the offending reference, as in North American Wetlands Conservation Act or erasing it from the article altogether,as in Jado and Just Knud Qvigstad. This converts references which someone has goofed up and can often be fixed into unreferenced statements. He has been doing this very rapidly today. Can he be stopped, and can the erasures be replaced? StarryGrandma (talk) 21:21, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

A check should be done before he removes them to ensure that the named reference never existed. This should be easy using wikiblame. Why was this brought here right away? You left a note on his talk page, and brought it here before he made another edit. That's a bit hasty, so this should probably be closed. Ryan Vesey 21:48, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
[double EC] When you can't easily fix the reference, commenting it out is better than leaving it, because the broken citation doesn't reference anything. Removing the citation fixes the backlog, but it makes it harder to repair the citations, so I've asked him not to remove them entirely. This isn't something that needs further attention. Nyttend (talk) 21:58, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Fix broken reference name – You can help Category:Pages with broken reference names[edit]

@StarryGrandma:{{ping|Nyttend }} Thanks for your information. To fix broken references is not so easy.

  1. Do nothing: The backlog lasts from 2011, 2012... Last week more then 1500 articles.
  2. Comment out, and if possible to inform the contributor.
  3. Erase, if nothing could be done.

Some examples:

  • Very easy to fix errors just doing shortly after they appear without consuming enormous laborious search with WikiBlame, e. g. Play therapy [9] > [10]
  • If it was contributed by an IP I mostly erase the ref - no chance to get it.


Would be glad if someone could help to get down the backlog --Frze > talk 15:36, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

One help is AnomieBOT. It checks all linked pages for possible references, as well as pages in the same category. When it comes up with several references with the same ref name, it leaves a message on the talk page. See Talk:Santiago de Compostela Airport for example. So give AnomieBOT some time to get to a page, then look at the Talk page before commenting out a reference. You can even follow AnomieBOT - it logs its work to User:AnomieBOT/OrphanReferenceFixer log - and catch things early, as well as catching subtle vandalism that the bots don't find.
If the material seems to be copied from another article, its often possible to guess where it came from by the context. In scientific articles where the missing ref name is composed of the author name and year I've had good luck with Google, the name, year, and topic. Similarly for ref names that are doi numbers (a confusing use of doi in my opinion).
Many lists are transcluded from other lists, but the full references don't come with the transcluded part. There you can move the reference in the source article into the transcluded piece, or just put it in inside a reflist at the bottom.
I see you've handled some infobox problems by correcting the field labels. Any problem in an infobox makes references after the problem invisible. Even trickier is infoboxes that generate named references. You've run into the Ethnologue 16th versus 17th edition problem. The update left about a hundred or so broken reference names. I started fixing them by changing e16 to e17, then had to go back and undo a few. e17 can be a reference only if the facts are still in e17. (There is an e16 template to put in.) And some of them weren't. Now that those articles aren't on the broken reference name list anymore I'm not clear how to check them.
It's nice to see the lists shorter, but some of the problems are still out there. If the references have been removed, we've lost information. If they've been commented out, the problems are harder to find. (I'm looking at the old AnomieBOT logs to find what I had been working on.) But now that the lists are shorter, its less discouraging. So if a few people keep working on it, and maybe use strategies like following AnomieBOT, then we can keep on top of it. StarryGrandma (talk) 18:22, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your helping information, especially to the work of AnomieBOT. But this Bot can't detect the input of a new ref with no content, e. g. <ref name=undefined/> or as often seen <ref name=XYZ charts/>. Please take a look at Village pump (technical) #New REFBot. If it will be working as DPL bot and BracketBot do - it would be very helpful. If possible, add a comment. Please excuse my simple erroneous English.
Good idea. BracketBot has been very helpful.
To find the e16 <> e17 versions please check my contributions [25] and [26]. The keywords Cite error: The named reference e16 was invoked but never defined will list you 34 articles.
Great, I'll do that.
How did you find Santiago de Compostela Airport reference? My WikiBlame search was useless.
@StarryGrandma: Best wishes and good night --Frze > talk 19:33, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
AnomieBOT found likely references and put them on the Talk page. I noticed that the reference named "statistics" already in the article was just as good and rewrote it into a complete reference. This is better than crossword puzzles!
The "ref name=undefined" was an old way of saying "citation needed" I think. But now I notice that's what happens if you start to pick a named reference out of a list while editing, and than stop. The editor sticks in the undefined. So they seem to be an accident and can just go away. StarryGrandma (talk) 19:48, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Bond > Filming of James Bond in the 1990s[edit]

I'll get around to it sometime. BTW St. Cuthbert's Mission, Guyana had been hijacked, that caused the error, surprised you didn't notice..♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: ... just fixed the cite error. Sorry --Frze > talk 14:57, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Most common errors in referencing[edit]

copied from User:TheJJJunk/Citation rant

  • In general: Not knowing what the {{Reflist}} template is, what it does, and that it is necessary if there are any citations present.
  1. Adding citations and forgetting to add the {{Reflist}} template.
  2. Placing <ref> tags below the {{Reflist}} template, which always causes an error.
  3. Forgetting to place the </ref> tag at the end of the citation... There cannot be <ref> without </ref>. Remember that.
  4. Not knowing that <references/> is the same as {{Reflist}}.
  5. Thinking that every single citation needs a reference group. For example, <ref name="This website" group="This website">This website</ref> Wrong. Unless citing a 'note', group="This website".
  6. Adding a reference group such as 'note', and forgetting to place the {{Reflist|group=note}} in the appropriate ==Notes== section in the article.
  7. Using the Cite web template and not adding a URL. You're citing a website, why not tell us which one?
  8. Adding a citation but not including the title= parameter in the citation. Nice.
  9. Adding the accessdate= parameter in a citation, but not including a URL. Accessdates are meaningless without the URL they belong to.
  10. Using the archiveurl= parameter, but not including the original url= parameter. How did you find the archive if you didn't know the URL?
  11. Forgetting the archivedate parameter when using an archiveurl. It's understandable.
  12. Forgetting to add http:// to the beginning of the URL.
  13. Adding something other than a URL to the url= parameter.
  14. Writing a citation like this: <ref>{{cite web|url=So-and-so did this|title=}}</ref>. You swapped the parameter names.
  15. Thinking that the laysummary= parameter means an actual summary of the source. It doesn't. You need a layurl=.
  16. See also

Mandibular fracture[edit]

I have the source here, it is

<ref>{{cite book|last=Banks|first=Peter|title=Fractures of the facial skeleton|year=2000|publisher=Wright|location=Oxford|isbn=0723610347|coauthors=Brown, Andrew E.}}</ref>

Many thanks, Lesion (talk) 20:18, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

No templates in signatures, please[edit]

I notice that you are using a template in your signature. Please don't do this, it may not be recognized as a signature by various software and it is an unnecessary resource drain on the server. See WP:SIG#NoTemplates for details. Thanks. Anomie 10:46, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

O.k. --Frze > talk 10:49, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Please do not include me[edit]

Hi Frze,

Please exclude me from any further messages about Wikipedia backlogs. I am unfortunately not able to participate in any such campaigns.


bdesham  15:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Updated Backlog Status template[edit]

I have added an intermediate option to my Backlog Status template. Now, you can see if the category is empty (or just has the default help categories)  Done, if the category isn't empty but has less than the backlog yellow tickY No backlog, or has a backlog Not done. I changed this from the one you had above:

Backlog status (Purge)
Category Current status
Pages with incorrect ref formatting Not done
Pages with missing references list yellow tickY No backlog
Pages with broken reference names Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character ",".
|+Backlog status ({{purge}})
!Current status
|{{Clickable button|[[:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting|Pages with incorrect ref formatting]]}}
|{{#ifexpr:{{PAGESINCAT:Pages with incorrect ref formatting}}<50|
      {{#ifexpr:{{PAGESINCAT:Pages with incorrect ref formatting}}=0|{{done}}|{{half done|No backlog}}}}|{{notdone}}}}
|{{Clickable button|[[:Category:Pages with missing references list|Pages with missing references list]]}}
|{{#ifexpr:{{PAGESINCAT:Pages with missing references list}}<50|
     {{#ifexpr:{{PAGESINCAT:Pages with missing references list}}=8|{{done}}|{{half done|No backlog}}}}|{{notdone}}}}
|{{Clickable button|[[:Category:Pages with broken reference names|Pages with broken reference names]]}}
|{{#ifexpr:{{PAGESINCAT:Pages with broken reference names}}<50|
     {{#ifexpr:{{PAGESINCAT:Pages with broken reference names}}=0|{{done}}|{{half done|No backlog}}}}|{{notdone}}}}

Hope this helps! — JJJ (say hello) 15:32, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Unable to assist with backlog project[edit]

Hi Frze, unfortunately I'm unable to participate in the broken citation backlog project, so please exclude me from future notices. Good luck with the cleanup. Best regards, --momoricks 19:47, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

OrphanReferenceFixer: Help on reversion[edit]

summary of AnomieBOT: Fixing reference errors. Read this before reverting

Hi there! I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. Recently, you reverted my fix to Theresa Grentz.

If you did this because the references should be removed from the article, you have misunderstood the situation. Most likely, the article originally contained both <ref name="foo">...</ref> and one or more <ref name="foo"/> referring to it. Someone then removed the <ref name="foo">...</ref> but left the <ref name="foo"/>, which results in a big red error in the article. I replaced one of the remaining <ref name="foo"/> with a copy of the <ref name="foo">...</ref>; I did not re-insert the reference to where it was deleted, I just replaced one of the remaining instances. What you need to do to fix it is to make sure you remove all instances of the named reference so as to not leave any big red error.

If you reverted because I made an actual mistake, please be sure to also correct any reference errors in the page so I won't come back and make the same mistake again. Also, please post an error report at User talk:AnomieBOT so my operator can fix me! If the error is so urgent that I need to be stopped, also post a message at User:AnomieBOT/shutoff/OrphanReferenceFixer. Thanks! AnomieBOT 04:02, 23 October 2013 (UTC) If you do not wish to receive this message in the future, add {{bots|optout=AnomieBOT-OrphanReferenceFixer}} to your talk page.

Re:Bot-Programmierung / Betreiber[edit]

Die beiden Stellen die du angeschrieben hast sind erstmal die richtigen. Sorry, dass das nicht zielführend war. Der nächste Schritt wäre es in Bugzilla unter einzutragen soweit ich weiß. Ich kann allerdings natürlich nicht versprechen, dass das erfolgreicher sein wird leider. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 10:58, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

IBM Docs: Difference between revisions[edit]

Hello: I just saw your edit on IBM Docs and I just wanted to say thank you. I'm a fairly new Wikipedia editor and I have trouble getting the citations and references right. Do you have any suggestions on what to do or where to look? Thanks, StanCon — Preceding unsigned comment added by StanCon (talkcontribs) 21:33, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 6[edit]

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Have you seen this?[edit]

I have pretty much retired from Wikipedia, but several years ago I created {{citation not found}} and the corresponding maintenance category. If you and others are currently working on fixing bad & broken references, maybe you could merge this in, or at least put it where people might see it? Thanks. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 18:45, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I am that I am[edit]

I removed two personal websites that pretty clearly fail WP:RS - you've restored them but as you didn't explain why I removed them again. If you really think they meet WP:RS then you should justify them as an except at WP:RSN. Dougweller (talk) 21:39, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Notes, references, bibliography[edit]

Greetings Frze, Thanks for all your work on references. You are probably aware this is something I also work on (you have fixed some of my errors, thanks). I wanted to point out a method for setting up notes, references and a bibliography. The article Abingdon (UK Parliament constituency) is an example. The method for creating notes I use is the {{refn}} template with a defined group and using the group parameter in the {{reflist}} template (see example). I use group=n for notes. IMO if a list of general references is not broken out into a bibliography section the reflist should proceed the general references. Just sharing my ideas and methods, thanks again for all your work. Best wishes. - - MrBill3 (talk) 10:01, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Please see User talk:John of Reading#Notes, references, bibliography Best wishes --Frze > talk 12:59, 28 November 2013 (UTC)


Regarding this revert. I actually liked the changes he made. They didn't do any harm, so I don't see why they had to be reverted. Debresser (talk) 21:03, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Backlog limit for Category:Pages with broken reference names?[edit]

You reverted my change of the backlog limit on Category:Pages_with_broken_reference_names, pointing to Category:Pages with citation errors as an explanation. I don't understand what you were getting at; could you clarify further? As it doesn't look like we'll get the deliberate error pages removed from the category any time soon, it does seem worth adjusting the backlog limits to take account of them. Your thoughts? (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

@ [27] [28] [29] The backlog limit is just a fictive number, so you could see in Category:Pages with citation errors where to work first. Here use only <!-- --> comment out unused citation. Best wishes --Frze > talk 11:51, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion about commenting out references rather than moving them to the talk page. I'm happy to do that going forward. (talk) 17:52, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the backlog number change -- I'm sorry, but I'm still confused. I know the backlog number is arbitrary, but it still seems worth taking into account the number of deliberate errors that will always be included in the different categories, so that the actual number of pages that triggers the backlog warning is the same in all of them. Given that both I and Debresser find the change worthwhile, would you consider reverting yourself, or at least explaining further why you disagree with the change? (talk) 17:52, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
@ Some users have been working hard on Category:Pages with citation errors for years. You may write backlog 25, 50, 55 or 31, 78, 23, 12 - it is arbitrary. There is a uniformly backlog number of 50 in all three categories, and it's just a good thing. See Category:Pages with citation errors: Difference between revisions Best wishes --Frze > talk 19:44, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
But the number of deliberate errors in each category is different... Nevertheless, it's hardly important enough to continue arguing over. The right solution is to get the deliberate error pages out of the category, but that's waiting on someone figuring out a good solution that works for the help pages that intentionally include examples of the errors. In any case, we can both get back to actually fixing the ref errors. Thank you for all your work on that, BTW. (talk) 22:29, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
To get the deliberate error pages out of the category is impossible. Thanks to you too. Best wishes & Good night --Frze > talk 22:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Perfect solution[edit]

I think my last edit on Template:Filton railway station services (first) and Template:Filton railway station services (second) is the perfect solution for the problem. Instead of adding the page to either Category:Pages with missing references list or Category:Pages with broken reference names, it avoids both. Debresser (talk) 23:40, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

@Debresser: Not quite perfect? > [30] Different problem: Fix error produces new! > [31] Best wishes --Frze > talk 11:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
The not quite perfect aspect was a typo. But the idea works perfectly.
The problem of that taxobox template is simply having more than one Reflist. But it is a testcase page which was created only December 1, so my plan was to leave it intact for the convenience of the editor who created it, and after a month or so remove two of the three Reflist templates, or simply blank the page. As a courtesy to the creator, who supposedly is testing something there or at least looks at it sometimes, I'd revert my edit there if I were you. Debresser (talk) 12:35, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
@Debresser: I am me and do not revert, because some users have been working hard on Category:Pages with missing references list. Best wishes --Frze > talk 12:44, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
So have I, as you can read on User:Debresser/My_work_on_Wikipedia#Missing_references_list. But since that category will never be completely empty, you won't really loose anything, and you should be courteous to other editors. Debresser (talk) 19:32, 4 December 2013 (UTC)


Noticed you from the Phineas Gage article, how did you get that cool backlog template thing for your page and is it configurable? ChrisGualtieri (talk) 06:28, 5 December 2013 (UTC)


Why did you revert my edits on The Human Sexipede? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 05:08, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind. I think I see why. I messed up the list-based references by deleting one of them; still, you could have cleaned up the references easily enough without reverting the copy edits I made to the article. The bot fixed everything except a cosmetic warning. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:20, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Just bragging[edit]

How did you like my edits to Help:Cite link labels, removing it from Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting? Debresser (talk) 19:05, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Improper use of citations[edit]

Please see my comments and questions on Talk:Crown jewels.

Regards, Softtest123 (talk) 06:25, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings[edit]

L'Adoration des bergers (Matthias Stomer) Torino.jpg

Christmas greetings to you and yours from John in Reading. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:02, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Christmas wishes[edit]

Thanks, Frze. Merry Christmas to you and your relatives, too. :) Acalamari 23:04, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Five major beauty pageants Reverted missing references list and ref in heading:[edit]

Thank you :)Markimatix (talk) 09:10, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Just want to ask if you could help me improve the page Five major beauty pageants, Is there a possibility that it will not be candidate for deletion? Thanks Markimatix (talk) 09:25, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
@Markimatix:: Sorry, unfurtunately I'm unable to help you. Please ask at the Wikipedia:Help desk and add your comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Five major beauty pageants. Best wishes --Frze > talk 09:47, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
No problem.

Cristiano Ronaldo[edit]

Had you had waited more than one minute you'd have seen that's what I was doing. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:24, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

@Mattythewhite:: thanks, but don't write Reverted 1 edit by Frze... in Edit summary (Briefly describe the changes you have made)
Please fix multiple references are using the same name:
<ref name="mufc_stats">{{cite web | url = | title = Games played by Cristiano Ronaldo in 2004/2005 | publisher = Soccerbase | accessdate = 25 December 2013}}</ref>
<ref name="mufc_stats"> {{cite web |url= |title=Cristiano Ronaldo | |accessdate=28 December 2013 }}</ref>
--Frze > talk 19:36, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Article Iqra University North Nazimabad Campus[edit]

Hi! I've noticed that you proposed article Iqra University North Nazimabad Campus for deletion ([32]) via proposed deletion. You specified the reason for deletion as "see Iqra University". I don't understand what is the reason for the deletion. I think you should specify it more precisely, because it is currently not clear why the article should be deleted. Vanjagenije (talk) 23:37, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Clarification please...[edit]

You reverted this edit with the edit summary "Fix incorrect ref formatting – You can help Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting"

Are you sure there was a problem with those references? Both the{{Reflist}} and <references></references> constructs support instantiating the details of references in the reference sections. If you are aware of a policy document, or guideline, that recommends against using this technique I'd appreciate you guiding me to it.

I only started to use this technique in the last year or so, following the example of another contributor. I don't always use it. The times when I do choose to use it I do so either because I am fixing an existing article, fixing its inadequate references, and I want to do so in the way that is least disruptive to those comparing diffs to see how the intellectual content of the article has been changed, or I use it when I suspect some well-meaning, but ill-advised, quality control volunteer is going to convert the formatting I used when I placed my references to their favorite reference formatting style.

If you are aware of a policy document, or guideline, that recommends against using this technique I'd appreciate you guiding me to it. Thanks. Geo Swan (talk) 17:33, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

@Geo Swan:> Without reading > Please take a look at the bottom of the page
{{reflist> refs= [6][7][8][9][10][11][12] }}
Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist}} template (see the help page).
Please take a look at [33] - you can revert, edit or do something else. Sorry --Frze > talk 17:57, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
@Geo Swan:: Sorry for my edits, but sometimes it is simpler, easyer and faster to revert an edit to show the contributotr, that there was something wrong. I made a new edit - there you can see your error:
{{reflist> is wrong
now correct: {{reflist|2|refs= or {{reflist|refs=
Hope you are not angry with me. Best wishes --Frze > talk 18:13, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Ah. Wrong character. Goldarn windows thinks it is smarter than I am. Unpredictably, and without warning, Windows decides that since I live in Canada I don't really want my keyboard to be mapped using the standard US keyboard-character mapping. Rather it decides to silently and without warning remap my keyboard to use the Franco-Canadian keyboard-character mapping.
My old computer science professor used to say: "In my experience 'intelligent devices' are not characterized so much by 'intelligence' as by a certain kind of low animal cunning."
Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 20:56, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


Please explain to me what, in an article whose title is "X", is wrong with editing "[[Category:A]]" to "[[Category:A|Mnop]]". The effect of the edit is that, in the list of articles in Category A, Article X, although appearing with the name "X", is placed alphabetically under M, not under X. This makes it easier to recognize what is the (e.g., archaic) name by which X is known in the context that makes Article X relevant to Category A. Under the name "X" the article may seem quite unrelated to the category.

If it is indeed wrong to do this, especially if you will be so good as to direct me to the Wikipedia page that explains what is wrong about it, I will certainly refrain from doing it, but I will not undertake to undo the numerous edits on the same lines that I see others have done. Esoglou (talk) 20:46, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Esoglou, Kaunos > the title of article is Kaunos, not Caunos (Redirect page). Best wishes --Frze > talk 20:58, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
That is precisely why the sort key "Caunus" (not "Caunos") was added. I see that John of Reading has now restored it, and I came here to delete my request and apologize for disturbing you with it. Esoglou (talk) 21:02, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I'm sorry for my fault. --Frze > talk 21:18, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict × 2) (talk page stalker) I have put the sort key back again, since the titular see was named "Caunus", as explained in the "Byzantine era" section.
I suggest that when you use the edit summary "Fix incorrect ref formatting – You can help", the edit should only fix the reference formatting. If you are doing other stuff to the article at the same time, it needs a better explanation than that. -- John of Reading (talk) 21:06, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
I'm sorry for my fault. This error was mistakenly by more version differences.--Frze > talk 21:18, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Reference problem on List of National Trust properties in Somerset[edit]

Thanks for the heads up about the reference problem on List of National Trust properties in Somerset. nhle =National Heritage List for England, which I had previously used for another item on the list. I have now sorted it by renaming a reference.— Rod talk 22:33, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

... It's my pleasure - thanks & good night. --Frze > talk 22:39, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year Frze![edit]

Fireworks in Jaén (cropped).jpg
Happy New Year!
Hello Frze:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers 00:01, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Frze![edit]

Ruby Murray 20:12, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year!!♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:46, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year 2014[edit]

New Year wishes[edit]

Thank you, Frze, much appreciated; a Happy New Year to you, too. :) Acalamari 23:12, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year to you too![edit]

Thanks for the Happy New Year wishes. And thank you for getting ReferenceBot started. What a wonderful help its been to so many editors, not just me! StarryGrandma (talk) 00:22, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year 2014[edit]

Happy New Year 2014 Enjoy.jpg Happy New Year
Happy New Year, Frze, and thanks for your message! benzband (talk) 14:20, 3 January 2014 (UTC)


FRZE, can you help me with what I need to do to have the photos restored on George Meegan. I had had George send an email to the appropriate to the permissions email address giving full authorization to use the photos. Why doesn't that authorize use of the photos. Did someone not receive the email message? What angers me is that nobody even mentioned to me that there was something wrong with the approval before pulling them down. Please HELP!!!!!! Bwisok (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

@Bwisok: I dont't know anything? Explain what happened at the WP:Help desk --Frze > talk 17:45, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Making null edits[edit]

Hi Frze. I want to be sure you know how to make a null edit; sometimes it helps when trying to get the server to update a page (for example, if a template has changed but the change isn't showing up in the article). In addition to the instructions in the "Null edit" section on Wikipedia:Purge, I find one additional step helps: go to the bottom of the code for the article you're editing and delete the final carriage return at the end. This is a blank line added by the WP server to all articles and removing it does not actually produce a registered edit (in the article history). When you hit save, the server should re-think all the stuff on the page, including templates and images, sometimes clearing up problems. I hope this is a helpful tip. Thanks! - tucoxn\talk 22:32, 15 February 2014 (UTC)


Just a heads up that you got three extra edits rolling back the <ref> error on Jessica Meir. I think you're just rollbacking a little too fast to check what you're doing - even if you had just rolled back the last edit it would have been removing sourced material just to address an error flag for markup. Hardly seems constructive. Laura Scudder | talk 18:01, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

@Laura Scudder Undo is the easiest and fastest way to focus your attention to your Cite error: The named reference Cadidatebio was invoked but never defined. You can simply revert my edit and fix. --Frze > talk 00:47, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
There is a bot that handles this by talk page messages rather than removing material. Laura Scudder | talk 02:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
@Laura Scudder: Yes, you are so right. This ReferenceBot is my idea.
Some users have been working hard on Category:Pages with citation errors.
My approach has been proven to avoid unnecessary double and triple work. --Frze > talk 06:31, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Costa Concordia Disaster[edit]

Only just noted your message of August 2013: '@Valetude: If you remove such a lot of text, then please be so kind to clean up all the cite errors: 20 list-defined references named "" are not used in the content'

I guess I'm not too familiar with the routine of cleaning up cite-errors. Are the inline citations not automatically deleted along with the relevant text? Valetude (talk) 15:31, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

@Valetude: No, there is no Bot or such thing to do this automatically. Best wishes --Frze > talk 03:16, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Top 100 meter times by NFL players[edit]

An article you contributed to is being considered for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Top 100 meter times by NFL players‎ Trackinfo (talk) 20:31, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

re edit to Bereta 9000[edit]

Hi Frze
Just about your edit here to Beretta 9000. I see that you stopped the ref error, but didn't really fix the cause. Admittedly that 'ref' was by then seriously malformed and didn't link anywhere.

However please do not remove the {{reflist}} template (or similar) or any references placed on the page will again cause a cite error (which is what brought me to that page) and it won't be visible either. Anyway, I 'fixed' the page here. Just for your information.Face-smile.svg Regards, 220 of Borg 10:00, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Revert on Referencebot notice[edit]

Frze, I reverted (indirectly) your edit on User:ReferenceBot/inform/top a changed the icon back to the "information" icon. The "warning" icon that you used is used for such things as "your page will be speedy deleted" or "do it again and you'll be blocked." Needless to say, "you made a reference goof" is not in the same category. Thank you, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 14:24, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Happy Winter Solstice[edit]

Hugo Kaulen[edit]

You edited (in 2012!) that his record was broken in the 80s but didn't provide an inline citation and the link you provided in the comments seemed hazy. By now many net sources are an echo chamber of your edit and the sources on the 1913 in aviation page which says 1930s. Which is it and can you provide a concrete source? Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 11:44, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open![edit]

Scale of justice 2.svgHello, Frze. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message[edit]

Scale of justice 2.svgHello, Frze. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)