User talk:TheMightyGeneral

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UAV2 and cuadro copter[edit]

if u will show me when it Georgia produces UAV2 or cuadrocopter i will cut my head off. just show me? it is ur dreams and dont put it in Georgian land forces or show source where is prove that such thing is really exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.73.210.231 (talk) 11:19, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Visit TAM and keep your head on ;) TheMightyGeneral (talk) 18:14, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Welcome[edit]

Welcome!

Hello, TheMightyGeneral, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! John Vandenberg (chat) 10:49, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

22 June 2011 (UTC)

გაუმარჯოს![edit]

გაუმარჯოს. შემთხვევით ინგლისურად SVG რუკებს ხომ არ აკეთებ? ან ხომ არ იცი ვინმე აკეთებდეს რომელიმე ან ქართველი ან უცხოელი? დიაოხის და სხვა ქართული სამეფოების რუკები მჭირდება კარგი ხარისხით. მადლობა. --Georgianჯორჯაძე 19:43, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

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Re: Stalin[edit]

Hello, I have no involvement with the content of the Joseph Stalin article; I only imported some edits to it from the Nostalgia Wikipedia. Please bring up your query at Talk:Joseph Stalin, and remember to sign your messages on talk pages with four tildes like this: "~~~~". Graham87 02:18, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

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December 2013[edit]

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პეტრე[edit]

გამარჯობა. პეტრე ბაგრატიონის სასიყვარულო ამბებზეც იქნებ განავრცო თემა? Jaqeli (talk) 11:48, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

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Gaumarjos[edit]

Hi, the Mighty. I was just wondering if you could add some new info about the current structure of the Georgian Land Forces, i.e., the Eastern and Western Commands. Also, do we know who are the current commanders in charge of these? Cheers, --KoberTalk 13:44, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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Sources[edit]

Where are you really getting these sources from? There is no mention of: Georgian National Guard, Sioni, Cholokashvili, Katharinenfeld, Makashvili, Sadakhlo, Ayrum, Tsulukidze, Privolnoye, Korolkov, Troitskoe, Lamballo, and the numbers 100, 200, 560, 600, 4,000, 6,000, 6,500 on the Andersen or Lang sources. It seems you are either making this up or getting your information from some Georgian language cite and claiming it's from academics. --Oatitonimly (talk) 03:34, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

I take those exact numbers from Andersen, read his article. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 03:56, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

I didn't couldn't find this info anywhere. Cite the page numbers or it gets removed. --Oatitonimly (talk) 04:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

You can't "quick research" on that article so you have to actualy read it, preferably download to make it easier for oneself as I did.

To the figures found in the section "Escalation of the Conflict: Uprising in Lori and Armenian Offensive "

Pages 26 - 45

Page 27

"....Thus the Georgian forces in Sanain-Alaverdi area found themselves in a very difficult situation. The first group consisting of the Sanain detachment of the Provincial Battalion (60 infantrymen) and an armoured train with the team – blocked in the village of Sanain. The second group - three companies of the 5th Infantry Regiment, one company of the 6th Infantry Regiment, an artillery battery, two mortar platoons and the second armoured train (about 600 men, in total) took defensive positions in Alaverdi, at the bottom of the Debed (Borchala) River gorge surrounded by overwhelming numbers of Armenian troops that included the 4th and the 6th regiments of the 2nd Armenian Rifle Division, battalions of the 1st Regiment of the 1st Armenian Rifle Division, three squadrons of the Mounted Brigade and unites of local Armenian militia (at least 4.000 men altogether plus 20 artillery pieces)46. On December 14 facing the above situation Tsulukidze ordered evacuation of both Sanain and Alaverdi and break through enemy lines towards Sadakhlo station. ...." with ref

Pages 27 - 28

"...In the county of Akhalkalaki the situation was radically different from Lori, largely because the local Armenian population did not seem to object to being under Georgian jurisdiction, and refrained from rebelling against Georgian troops. Also ethnic Russian Dukhobors who inhabited the southern part of the disputed county, were not only loyal to the Georgian government, but preferred Georgian adminstration to the Armenian one49. One could also assume that the county enjoyed relative stability due to the presence of quite significant Georgian forces (more than 6 000 men) under command of General Ilia Makashvili (Makaev)..."

Pages 28 - 29

"...Meanwhile, the new Armenian offensive began in the eastern zone of the conflict. In the early morning of December 14, the units of the 4th, 5th and 6th Armenian Regiments under the command of Colonels Levon Ter-Nikogosov, Nesterovsky and Korolkov, advanced in three columns towards the line Vorontsovka – Privolnoye – Opreti - Ayrum. The total strength of attacking force, including reserves, was about
6000 infantry and 640 cavalry with 26 machine-guns and 7 mountain guns, not including several thousand armed rebels..."

Note:I actualy gave a slightly lower figure there.

Page 29

"...By that time Armenian left flank under the command of Ter-Nikogosov advanced in the direction of BolnisKhachen and Ekaterinenfeld (Ekaterinovka), and on the right flank the troops of Korolkov by a surprise maneuver took over the Ayrum station. As a result of the two-day long Ayrum operation, Georgian units of the 5th and 6th Regiments almost miraculously managed to escape from the encirclement, losing more than 500 men killed, wounded and taken prisoner and leaving behind 25 machine guns and 2 cannons54...."

Note I took that number initialy, but then replaced it with Hovannian's figure of 560 killed, wounded and taken prisoner.

The other numbers 100, 200 I don't know on which you are exactly referring to because there are several such figures in both Andersen's and Hovannian's material. Troop numbers and casualties. For troop numbers for instance, there is:

Page 29

"...On December 18, the forces of Tsulukidze (about 200 men strong, not including sick and wounded) entrenched in the foothills around the village and station of Sadakhlo..."

Hovannian in his book for instance states that the Armenian's lost about 200 men when the Georgians repulsed the Armenian army from Shulaveri for instance and 100 men in an earlier engagement.

Btw, you reverted the edit allready anyway without waiting for anyone to reply which is not appreciated, not that your edit is valid anyway. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 05:01, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

I said cite Lang's book, not an article that anyone could write. Also I checked those pages, and Andersen himself does not cite any books for most of this information. --Oatitonimly (talk) 05:09, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Nope you didn't. Nice try. You asked exactly for the figures I stated to have taken from Andersen and I cited the figures from Andersen. Regarding Lang, read the excert from his book. I used that one mainly to support both Hovannian's and Andersen's work which both state exactly when and where the conflict ended. So again, no valid arguiments and excuses to what I now consider vandalism from your side. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 05:13, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

I said "on the Andersen or Lang sources". You cannot cite an entire book, you need to provide the page numbers. --Oatitonimly (talk) 05:15, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

You are kidding right .... ? this is from just a few lines above:

..... "I take those exact numbers from Andersen, read his article. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 03:56, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I didn't couldn't find this info anywhere. Cite the page numbers or it gets removed. --Oatitonimly (talk) 04:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Are you denying what you wrote yourself ?

I just both cited and gave page numbers ....

Nobody cited an entire book. Those are core information about the conflict events from both an article written by Andersen and a book written by Hovannian although I used Andersen as base because it's a more neutral source. You are not helping yourself. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 05:19, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

You have not given a single page number or reliable source. Oatitonimly (talk) 05:27, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Where are you getting " Georgian National Guard, Sioni, Cholokashvili, Katharinenfeld, Makashvili, Sadakhlo, Ayrum, Tsulukidze, Privolnoye, Korolkov, Troitskoe, Lamballo" from? These are in neither the Andersen nor Lang sources. --Oatitonimly (talk) 05:33, 12 May 2016 (UTC)


You can read right .... ? I just cited all the numbers from Andresen's article a few lines above with the exact page numbers. Those are information from Andersen's article. Again, read the article or stop bothering. I have allready written on which pages you find the numbers. In the exact pages 26 - 45 you find the information on those locations and persons. The only thing you need is to read the article. I suspect you're either blatantly lying or tried to use the search function ( strg+F - which doesn't work on that site - hence you should download it maybe as I did .... ) You are really not helping your cause right now, especialy when not providing a single valid argument to why you are reverting and deleting sourced material. You also completly ignore the argument to why I edited that section. The sources I provide besides Andersen are Lang and Hovannian. I'd say more than reliable. Now please refrain from further deleting sourced content.

Btw why would you give "was indecicive" as reason to revert my edit ? nobody argues the fact that it was indecicive. In fact the reason I edited is exactly to point that out. Because otehrwise it seemed like a full fledged Armenian victory which it a ) wasn't and b ) also didn't stop 30km away from Tbilisi, but in Sadakhlo near the nowdays Armenian border, when the Gerogians pushed the Armenians out of Shulaveri wich itself was as far as 60km away from the capital allready.

You prefer only Hovannian instead ? than please actualy read his book .... TheMightyGeneral (talk) 05:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

I think you are both missing a more important point. The "By December 25 they had reached positions 30 miles from Tbilisi before being defeated by the Georgian army at Shulaveri" wording of the content falsely suggests that there was an actual campaign plan by Armenia to capture Tbilisi, and that Armenian forces were advancing to do this until they were halted by a defeat at Shulaveri. The sources do not say such a thing. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 18:41, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

It was not the primary goal of the Armenians at least but the source states that it was considered as an option by them, if certain demands were not met ( like the transfer of Akhalkalaki to Armenia ). It was also regarded an immediate threat by the Georgians, especialy since there were issues mobilising a force outside of Akhalkalaki strong enough to at least prevent any further advance and eventualy counteract, which consequently did happen. I am definitly open to a more neutral and less misleading text/edit here but I do not see an issue with my edit regarding that though. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 19:07, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

EDIT: so I made what I think is a more clarifying and less misleading edit that both sides can agree on. I'd welcome a reply from Oatitonimly as well and hope it settles this dispute here. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 19:30, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I don't care what you do to the war article for now because it's a stub anyway, but would you please remove your edits on the republic? You clutter too much confusing information into what is just supposed to be a short description. Shulaveri wasn't even the last major confrontation nor did it define the current borders. Also Tiflis was the correct spelling until 1930. --Oatitonimly (talk) 03:09, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

I am not the only one editing that article and fine I've replaced the "decicive ( despite the fact it actualy was one - but arguable not the - and despite the fact it clearly states that the fighting went on near the nowdays Armenian border ) with "a major" battle. I won't revert it because it is a short description truer to the events. Reverting it leads us back to the initial version which is misleading and doesn't give you a brief picture about how things actualy went down, rather implying that the war only stopped when the Armenian Army was 30km away from Tbilisi, which is not true. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 06:56, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

No, it's not an accurate description at all. Georgia did not "score a few gains", the war never took place in the Armenian Republic. I merely said the war's extent was that distance to Tiflis. You however are distorting and nitpicking sources to imply the Armenia was sent back by some non-existing Georgian decisive victory, when in fact it was solely British threats. Anyone who reads this will have the impression Georgians pushed that Armenians out, which is a lie. --Oatitonimly (talk) 19:37, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

About the "gains". It has nothing to do with the "land gains in Armenian Republic" I merely take from Hovannisian's style of writing, basicaly meant successes, while he describes them as gains in general.

About Shulaveri. There is no "non-existing" anything. You have it clearly stated in three different works. While Andersen describes it more in detail and you may call it POV, dubious or whatever, I think you will find it hard to discard Hovannisian, as he also acknowledges the fact that the Shulaveri operation was a decicive one for the Georgians, pushing the Armenians out of the area, not just Shulaveri and 2 days later almost beyond Sadakhlo. I'll quote.

From Hovannisian's The Republic of Armenia: The first year, 1918-1919 p.118:

"...On the twenty-eight, however, General Mazniev ordered a 3,500-man battle group to a full-scale attack and by nightfall had retrieved Shulaver and several smaller villages and had inflicted nearly two hundred casualties upon the Armenians. At long last Georgia tasted victory. For the next two days there ensured a brisk contest for control of the village of Sadakhlu. The village changed hands several times untill at last the Armenians entranched themselves at the station and the Georgians in the town...."

The closest the Armenians came to Tbilisi was Belyi-Kliuch - nowdays known as Tetritsqaro, 30km away from Tbilisi. Hovannisian states that the Armenian offensive had reached it's climax at that point, on December 24. The Georgian's first offensive took place around that area enclosing Katharingenfeld ( nowdays known as Bolnisi ) pushing out Armenian pockets, read Andersen more detailed description on that. The first major battle during the Georgian counteroffensive was in and around Shulaveri, as also described by Hovannisian and Andersen and briefly mentioned by Lang. You are still denying that and I don't get how. Nobody said anything about a "decicive victory" or "major victory". The Georgians won a "major / decicive battle" - which it was, arguably the largest engagement in that war, as it was also not limited to Shulaveri but the villages around it. Both armies ( the first time the Georgians had amassed what you'd call an army or as Hovannisian puts it: army-group ) clashed in that area. Then they finaly clashed at Sadakhlo.

What kind of victory it was is debatable but it was a decicive battle. The Armenian army got repulsed from that area and had to regroup and also failed to take Sadakhlo a few days later.

Again no. The Armenians stopped because both sides signed a truce which was in effect not earlier than 1 January 1919 and in fact the Georgians were far more dissatisfied and dissaproving with the British peace conditions. Just stating that the Armenian army stood 30km from Tbilisi and that's where the war practicaly and solely due to British "threats" (what "threats" are you even referring to .... ?? - the only threat the Armenians received was from the Georgian delegation amidst the peace talks) ended is a lie. In fact it was rather Georgia that saw itself threatened by the British, especialy with the establishment of British controlled neutral zones.

I also clearly stated the military clashes ultimately resulted in a stalemate at Sadakhlo, not that the Georgian's pushed the Armenians back to Yerevan (eventhough the Georgians liked to claim they would have pushed towards Yerevan if it wasn't for the peace talks according to Hovannisian .... The Armenian army only withdrew after a British peacekeeping contingent arrived in Sadakhlo. While the Georgian army withdrew earlier. TheMightyGeneral (talk) 23:00, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

@TheMightyGeneral: you seem to have some knowledge of this article. Do you mind checking in to give your opinion? Thank you.--Damianmx (talk) 20:06, 12 June 2016 (UTC)