Wikipedia talk:WikiProject NASCAR/Archive 7

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Template:NASCAR race season infobox

Hello all. While conducting a GA review for 2010 Toyota/Save Mart 350, I came upon an arguably trivial parameter in the above mentioned infobox. As copied from the review:

Please voice your opinion on the matter below. Thanks, Airplaneman ✈ Review? 02:48, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree and I am the creator of it. --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 02:50, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
If the result is to remove the parameters, the tedious task of removing the parameters from all articles linking to the infobox needs to be done before modifying the infobox itself. I'm wondering if a bot could do it? Airplaneman ✈ Review? 03:07, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
It is only this year's races (around 26 pages). --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 03:09, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
For future reference: [1] Airplaneman ✈ Review? 03:26, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
I quess people started using it. ;) --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 03:27, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
I hate the state flags. They add nothing to the article, have almost nothing to do with the driver himself except in a trivial sense. Widespread consensus on Wikipedia is to not use flags in this type of use. So they should be removed. Check it out at WP:FLAGBIO. Royalbroil 04:30, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 Done --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 14:33, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
All instances of the removed parameters zapped. Should we request some level of protection for this template as it is highly visible and transcluded onto many pages? Airplaneman ✈ Review? 04:25, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes, most definately, I also think the talk page template {{WikiProject NASCAR}} should be semi protected. You have new messages there at the GA review Airplaneman. --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 04:30, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

(outdent) You asked the right person. I protected both of these templates. Any high use template should be semi-protected. Any more? Royalbroil 13:21, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Posibly the {{User_WP_NASCAR}}. More can be found on the project page. --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 13:25, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

What about the flags in all the race articles such as Auto Club 500? Should they be removed as well? --Wean0r (talk) 01:16, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I believe they should. Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 01:25, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
I just realized that the "country=" parameter should be axed too. NASCAR only takes place in the US, as far as I know. Is there a way to remove it automatically or semi-automatically (such as with AWB)? Doing it manually is extremely tedious and I'm not up for it right now. Airplaneman ✈ 04:39, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
There is a current Nationwide race in Canada (NAPA Auto Parts 200) and a former Nationwide race in Mexico (Corona México 200). There's also the NASCAR Canadian Tire Series and the NASCAR Corona Series. Not that there any articles on any of those races that I know of right now, but the potential is there. --Wean0r (talk) 05:08, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Oh, OK. In that case, we need to ax that flagicon... Airplaneman ✈ 16:57, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Upon further deliberation following Wean0r's comment, I actually don't think it is too trivial. Discussion is welcome, though. I'll stay neutral for now. Airplaneman ✈ 19:21, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
The flags should be removed from all of the articles - I'm not up for a task that big. I know that NASCAR has held a few races outside the U.S., including exhibition Cup races in Fiji in Japan, but it is overwhelmingly an American sport. I think the country should remain = U.S. Royalbroil 13:10, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Any way to automatically or semi-automatically remove them with bots or AWB? I don't use AWB (not supported on Macintoshes) or I would do so myself. Airplaneman ✈ 04:17, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject NASCAR/Newsletter?

Hello, for anyone who is watching this page I belive we should have news letter. I would like to see your opinion(s). This Wikiproject is not nearly as active how used to be, do you know anyway to promote it? --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 18:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

A newsletter sounds like a good idea. I would lean towards seasonal frequency (monthly seems like a bit much unless everyone pitches in). Delivery can be done by bots such as EdwardsBot. It'll help inform members and (hopefully) keep WP:NASCAR in their heads and get them motivated. As for promotion, look towards the Wikipedia Signpost's WikiProject Report. Airplaneman ✈ Review? 06:25, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm fine with a newsletter but I'm wondering what content should be in it? The next question is what's the type of person to promote the WikiProject to? How can we find these people who don't know about WP:NASCAR and will they be okay with being spammed with a newletter? Royalbroil 11:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
We will let them sign there name, or something. So we would not give it to people who do not want it. This project, I feel, does need promted because I beleive their are some editiors that may not now this is here.--Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 12:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
Here is the first production of the NASCAR Newsletter. It is still underconstruction. Also, I believe that monthly would be better because seasonal would be to large. I belive we should put the point positions for all three major series (Sprint Cup, Nationwide, and Truck) in it and posibly all the results of every race. In July there were 3 Sprint races, 4 Nationwide, and 4 Truck series races. --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 17:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we could try delivering using User:MessageDeliveryBot? Airplaneman ✈ 16:57, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Colour used to indicate "did not finish" in NASCAR results tables

At Talk:Juan Pablo Montoya/Archive 1#Yellow Key for Nascar SUX, an IP editor has expressed the opinion that the yellow colour used to indicate "Did not finish" in the NASCAR results tables "sux" because it is too similar to the yellow colour used to indicate first place and suggests that "dark purple" be used instead. Probably worth considering. DH85868993 (talk) 02:40, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

That seems to be a non-standard table. Not sure how many other articles use it. Looks like Jeff Gordon does but that one is incomplete. I question that a table like that is even necessary. --Wean0r (talk) 05:21, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Apologies for bringing this back up, but I think that this needs to be addressed for, at the very least, next year. Perhaps a new key could be made that is more similar to the current key used on most other motorsports articles.
As it is, the current key is:
Colour Result Code
Gold Winner #FFFFBF
Silver Finished 2-5th #DFDFDF
Bronze Finished 6-10th #FFDF9F
Green Finished 11-20th #DFFFDF
Blue Finished 21-30th #CFCFFF
Orange Finished 31-40th #FCD765
Purple Finished 41-43rd #EFCFFF
Yellow Did Not Finish (DNF) #FFFF2F
Black Disqualified (DSQ) #000000 (text white)
Red Did Not Qualify (DNQ) #FF4F4F
Blank Did Not Participate (DNP)
Injured or ill (INJ)
Excluded (EX)
Did not arrive (DNA)
Perhaps it could be updated to something similar to:
Colour Result Code
Gold Winner #FFFFBF
Silver Finished 2-5th #DFDFDF
Bronze Finished 6-10th #FFDF9F
Green Finished 11-20th #DFFFDF
Blue Finished 21-43rd #CFCFFF
Purple Did Not Finish (DNF) #EFCFFF
Black Disqualified (DSQ) #000000 (text white)
Red Did Not Qualify (DNQ) #FFCFCF
Blank Did Not Participate (DNP)
Injured or ill (INJ)
Excluded (EX)
Did not arrive (DNA)
This colour scheme is comparable to the keys used on other motorsports articles and also removes the use of any really sharp colours which popped out too much in the old key.
Thoughts/opinions? TheChrisD Rants•Edits 00:47, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
PS: Here's an example of what the current table would look like under the proposed key in my sandbox. TheChrisD Rants•Edits 00:55, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Looks good, but one question: Does it have all the same information as it does on the article? I mean does it still have all the pole positions? If it does, you can change it now. It does look better, now what about Jimmie Johnson and Juan Pablo Montoya? I quess I'll try them. Nascar1996 01:02, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Yup, it has all the exact same information as what was already there. All that was really changed were the colours of the table cells themselves (which is pretty simple with any competent text editing program). TheChrisD Rants•Edits 02:40, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Well then, I think we should change it before tomorrows race. Nascar1996 02:47, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
My main concern is that it is done the same way as other motorsport genres, which has been addressed. How that is done doesn't matter to me. Looks good! Royalbroil 12:24, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm glad to hear there's such a positive response to it! The one thing that irked me about what I came up with last night was that there's rather a lot of silver and bronze in there as compared to the rest, so I made one small change to the key in my sandbox again, to become:
Colour Result Code
Gold Winner #FFFFBF
Silver Finished 2-3rd #DFDFDF
Bronze Finished 4-5th #FFDF9F
Green Finished 6-10th #DFFFDF
Light Blue Finished 11-20th #CFEAFF
Blue Finished 21-43rd #CFCFFF
Purple Did Not Finish (DNF) #EFCFFF
Black Disqualified (DSQ) #000000 (text white)
Red Did Not Qualify (DNQ) #FFCFCF
Blank Did Not Participate (DNP)
Injured or ill (INJ)
Excluded (EX)
Did not arrive (DNA)
This mimics the key used for the IndyCar Series, slightly extended to cover the fact that there's 43 cars as opposed to an average of 26. This way makes it a lot easier to pick out the really good finished (top-3 and top-5) from the general top-10's and the top-20's, as well as being able to more clearly show bad days, particularly for drivers high up in the standings! I also made a change to replace the italics for pole earned by rainout to use inline notation, which frees up the italics for use for something else like fastest lap (if they even track that), or most laps led. TheChrisD Rants•Edits 14:16, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
It looks good, but NASCAR doesn't cateogize drivers by top-three. Nascar1996 14:40, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I'd suggest removing the "Code" column - people reading the article don't need to see that. DH85868993 (talk) 14:56, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I'll remove the table on Montoya's article, but otherwise than that it needs to stay. Nascar1996 15:47, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm interested to know why you think that - none of the other motorsport results key templates ({{F1 driver results legend 2}}, {{F1 driver results legend 3}}, {{WRC driver results legend}}) have it. DH85868993 (talk) 23:42, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Yea, the code column can be removed. I just left it in in the mock-ups since I hadn't been bothered to remove it. TheChrisD Rants•Edits 23:49, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Not good, for my monitor, purple and red look too close, blue and silver look close, and gold and bronze look close. Let's try to finalize something and get a consensus with more than half a days discussion before making widespread changes. --Wean0r (talk) 22:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Apart from the light blue, the colours are the same as those on the already-widely-used {{F1 driver results legend 2}}, {{F1 driver results legend 3}} and {{WRC driver results legend}}. DH85868993 (talk) 23:42, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Well then something is definitely wrong with your monitor. Personally, I would've waited a while before making the changes to the articles to get the views of other people, but given how this change brings the key for NASCAR in line with pretty much every other series covered by WP:MOTOR, I think pushing changes out early was the right call. Bear in mind, the scheme was originally created back in 2007 and not modified since then, whereas other series' have seen their keys evolve over time.
Light blue, while not appearing in F1 or other similar series, is used for Champ Car and IRL results to denote a medium-high points finish, since they too were/are series in which every finishing position earns points. I added the light blue to the second mockup simply as I feel having four positions covered until the silver, and five under bronze is too much. TheChrisD Rants•Edits 23:49, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Manufacturers

I was just looking up some information on the Nascar 1993 schedule and I noticed the cars listed for Chevrolet were Monte Carlos. They should be Luminasm Monte Carlo did not return until 1995. Thank you, Mike —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.44.136.113 (talk) 11:02, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Road American Nationwide drivers

I just uploaded pictures of the drivers who didn't have a photograph. I have more, including Carl Edwards, if they'd be helpful. You can find the pictures in the Commons category for the race. Soon I'll upload pictures of every racecar. The racecar photographs all turned out GREAT - better than the driver's. You can add the images to the next newsletter. I uploaded images for 6 drivers who don't have articles: Antonio Perez, Joey Scarallo, Kevin O'Connell, Kyle Kelley, Robb Bent, and Tim George, Jr. in case someone wants to start the articles. There still aren't articles for a few Nationwide drivers that I photographed at Milwaukee's Nationwide race last year. I took several miscellaneous photographs - a rooflap, a microphone placed by the track for the ESPN coverage and the ESPN helicopter, a flagman waving a blue flag, a flyover, and the front and side view of a splitter. Some of these were taken for the List of motorsport terminology. That's the article to place to define terms that apply to multiple genres of motorsports and it's good to link to that article when using terms that need definition for non-NASCAR enthusiasts. Royalbroil 02:02, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

The images will be very helpful. Since the inaugural newsletter was deputed today. The images you have uploaded will be in the newsletter for August 2010. I'm happy that they turned out great. The articles that havn't been created may need to go to the projects overall todo list. --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 02:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Here's the list of images which don't have a home right now. I think that if someone creates one of these articles then they should strike through the text of the image(s). Royalbroil 04:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Do you know a internet site that may have some background information on the drivers? --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 04:08, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
I use racing-reference.info for the statistics which can be enough to write a decent article. Then I do a google search to fill in the details. They may be a bunch of road course ringers who are very experienced in other genres of motorsports like sports cars and Indy car feeder series. I got hits on all 3 that I tried - ARCA, NASCAR West series, and SCCA Trans Am. Definite potential DYKs for each of them if you want to spend the time. Royalbroil 04:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

NASCAR fuel consumption (support, staff, fans)

All the discussions on NASCAR fuel consumption have been on the cars themselves. Has anyone considered adding in the fuel for all support vehicles and Staff/Fans travel to each venue on average?? Just wondered...

24.11.2.232 (talk) 08:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Would fan and support vehicle fuel consumption be appropriate in an article on any other sport? I doubt it. Royalbroil 11:55, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Unocal 76 Challenge

  • Created a new article - Unocal 76 Challenge
  • Looking to expand and include the results for the Unocal 76 World Pit Crew Competition, the results are easy to find in the NASCAR media guides.
  • Also, found information about the Darlington Record Club, which I suppose withered with the end of the Southern 500 (or did it). I think a page about that would be interesting.

Doctorindy (talk) 17:04, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

WP NASCAR in the Signpost

"WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject NASCAR for a Signpost article to be published this month. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your responses below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 20:32, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

NASCAR article

The article was unprotected a few hours ago, so it would be good for everyone to watchlist the article for vandalism. If it gets bad, please list at WP:RPP and state that semi-protection was removed from the article as a test after being protected for 2 years. I'll watch it and will protect it if needed since I have the admin tools. Royalbroil 22:01, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the announcement! --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 22:07, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Sprint Cup schedule

The Sprint Cup schedule will be released tomorrow. Wayne Olajuwon (talk) 17:53, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes it will per 2011 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series. --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 17:57, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

List of Brickyard 400 broadcasters and related.

A group of lists of xxxx 400 broadcasters have been proded, sent to AfD or had merges suggested. I've no idea how important or trivial such lists are, but I figured I'd alert the appropriate wikiproject. Thanks. Hobit (talk) 00:34, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Since they are having problems, I guess it would be appropriate to merge for the ime being, but please notice that over time these tend to become very large to handle. --Nascar1996 Contributions / Guestbook 00:58, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Satellite team

There's a request at WikiProject Motorsport to expand the new article. NASCAR teams are part of the article. By the way, if an article is part of WikiProject NASCAR, then it should not be added to WikiProject Motorsport. WikiProject Motorsport is a parent WikiProject for WP:NASCAR so NASCAR articles are automatically part of WP:MOTOR. Royalbroil 01:54, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Track Pages

I've been working on the Auto Club Speedway page and in the process noticed that there is a lot of inconsistency in the order and content of track pages. The format and content of the records differ as well. There's not much to follow in the standards other than the sidebar information. Wondering if you guys have some thoughts about additional standards for track pages. Lvi56 (talk) 00:59, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

No, there isn't many at our standards page. Also, I have no ideal what a track article should have; there are none at good and featured status. Nascar1996 01:31, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
After some searching I found the Sports Facilities Task Force, which makes sense. There is a basic structure provided, I suppose I'll start and work from there. Lvi56 (talk) 03:58, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Okay. --Nascar1996 19:11, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

NASCAR articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the NASCAR articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:22, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions.
Removing Paul Tracy - this made it in because of its score in Canadian Sports, but the score seems unreasonably high. You may have spotted a small bug in the selection bot code! But don't worry - even if it stays, that wouldn't affect our decision on the four proposed "adds".
As for adding the four articles, two of these (Rick Hendrick and Bill France, Sr.) are Start-Class articles with low scores for "external interest" (page hits, other language versions etc). Hendrick even has a cleanup tag. If these were B-Class or better, we could perhaps consider them, especially the Bill France one, but as fairly low quality articles it's hard to make the case. Maybe you could get them to GA status in time for Version 1.0 next year? However, we will add in your suggestions of Hendrick Motorsports and Darrell Waltrip for this release. Thanks, Walkerma (talk) 07:08, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I added this version of the Waltrip article, and I just noticed that it only has two references. If you think the quality of this article is too low, please let me know and I'll make sure it gets removed. Thanks, Walkerma (talk) 07:30, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Project News

It needs to be updated. Joseph507357 (talk) 00:02, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Once the bot get up and running again (Which I doubt) it will be updated daily, but untill then we will have to deal with it. Nascar1996 00:12, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, wasn't aware about a bot doing it. Joseph507357 (talk) 00:15, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
After reading the bots status it says it should up running within the month. Its last edit was in April of 2010. Nascar1996 00:26, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Wallace Simpson

Just a quick note to say that Wallace Simpson is now a redirect to Wallis, Duchess of Windsor (Wallis Simpson) as it is a homophone. When an article is created on the NASCAR driver, it could be at Wallace Simpson (NASCAR), or it could be at the non-dabbed title, with a hatnote pointing towards the article on Wallis Simpson. For the moment, I've tweaked you drivers subpage to have Wallace Simpson at the dabbed title, so that it doesn't show up as a bluelink. Mjroots (talk) 15:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Alan Kulwicki second featured run

On Commons, NASCAR1996 and I discussed getting something featured for WikiProject NASCAR. We agreed that Alan Kulwicki is probably the best option. I attempted it for Featured Article once before and it didn't pass because there was too much to do. It didn't fail because it was real bad. So I request that all of the members of this WikiProject review the article for excellence in grammar, spotless sourcing using impeccable reliable sources, content flow, etc. We decided to nominate it in just under 2 weeks after I get back from an extended weekend vacation next weekend. I'm going to request reviews from my fellow WikiProject Wisconsin members since he was from Wisconsin. Royalbroil 04:30, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The Big One (NASCAR) tagged for deletion

The article The Big One (NASCAR) has been tagged for deletion, by who seems to be a new user. A reasonable reason has not really been given. I'm soliciting some reviews and/or backups for keeping the article. Doctorindy (talk) 18:49, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What all can we do to make sure it don't? I tried to notify a more active admistrator that I go to for help. I also think we may want to notify Royalbroil. Nascar1996 22:55, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
You just did! It was a prod, which any can contest simply by removing the proposed deletion for any or even no reason. I removed the prod and provided the reason that there is multiple independent sources. Either of you could have contested the deletion. It's only for cases where the proposer doubts their would be anyone to protest. Obviously there are a minimum of 3 protesters. Royalbroil 02:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject cleanup listing

I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 19:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Template:NASCAR Sprint Cup Races

Shouldn't the update to 2011 wait until... you know... 2011? Right now isn't the majority of interest still going to be with the 2010 season - particularly for those who missed todays race and pop into Wikipedia to have a look? I would personally find the switch over to 2011 in the templates particularly annoying as the majority of the 2011 race articles are unpopulated with little or no content, particularl when the 2010 season conclusion was only a couple of hours ago and the full range of presentations and awards have still to be completed? The races may have been completed, but the season hasn't. --Falcadore (talk) 00:19, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Replied there. Nascar1996 00:21, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

2009 Sprint Cup Drivers Standings

Any idea where that is? Seems to be completely absent. Surely this is rather important? --Falcadore (talk) 21:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean? The Cup is probably on 2009 Chase for the Sprint Cup. Nascar1996 21:41, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Except that it isn't. There is some mention of the top twelve only and layout is not exceptional. 13th and below might be considered useful though yes? --Falcadore (talk) 21:44, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the large table on the 2010 season, is new. I made that table aroud August or June. Nascar1996 21:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russ Salerno

Comments are welcome. —J04n(talk page) 13:27, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Nomination at FP

I have recently nominated an image for WP:FP here. All comments are welcome.Nascar1996 18:30, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Jimmie Johnson's Anything with an Engine

Should the game article be created soon, now, never? Would it need the projects banner, or motorsports? Nascar1996 22:04, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

You can create it at any time if you wish. I see it's a Wii game. I probably wouldn't add to either WP:NASCAR or WP:MOTOR. I'd add it to the Video games WikiProject. Royalbroil 04:36, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
I was just asking. Thanks Royalbroil, and I probably will create it sometime when more information is introduced. Nascar1996 11:02, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Car number backgrounds

Now, having been accused of vandalism for removing coloured backgrounds on 2010 NASCAR Camping World Truck Series, I wish to seek clarification on why such backgrounds are not feasible. For instance, if a colourblind user is using the website, the colours would not show up as had been placed. Furthermore, a car/truck may use several different liveries per season that the number would reflect the most recent livery and are thus completely trivial. So, my proposal is for all coloured car number backgrounds to be removed. Any thoughts? Cs-wolves(talk) 21:53, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Ignore the warnings. I'm removing them too. I going to put them in the Standards, so there will even be another reason not to have them. The paint schemes are not notable, and are too much. The sponsors are barely notable so ignore the warnings. All colors should be removed. I havn't had a problem removing them before so.. Nascar1996 23:56, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
The problem has only been recent, but it is good to see a stand being taken against them. Excellent. Cs-wolves(talk) 00:05, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
Definitely remove as it's a classic case of overusing color as noted in the style manual at Wikipedia:COLOR. Colors are not to be used to convey information and they are purely decoration. Royalbroil 01:01, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

2009 Sharpie 500

Right now this article is being discussed for deletion. I thought I would bring this to your attention since it falls within scope of this project. You all may wish to put it on your list of urgent things to do, so that it can be improved relatively quickly and be saved from the wrath of the deletion process. --Willy No1lakersfan (Talk - Edits) 15:54, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Junior Johnson & Associates, Junior Johnson Racing, and Junior Johnson Motorsports

Since I'm not too familiar with Johnson's life, are all of these his specific teams. I'm for sure that he will have a team in 2011 names Junior Johnson Racing which will race in the lower devisions, and plans to become a Cup team with their driver. While researching for the team, I found Junior Johnson Motorsports, which redirects to Brett Bodine Racing, then I found Junior Johnson & Associates, which seem to be when Darrell Waltrip drove for him. Are the teams names correct, and should we redirect one and create it per his complete team history? Thanks. Nascar1996 03:13, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Junior Johnson had racing teams for a VERY long time and they were the best for much of the time. He was about as important as Rick Hendrick has been over the past decade. The Alan Kulwicki article talks a little about his significance. So it easily should have its own article. I bet most of the content is listed under Junior Johnson himself because at that time teams were know under their owner not as separate entities (unlike now). I don't know what the team was named at the time or even if it had a name. DW was one of the many drivers to win under him. I think there should not be a redirect and an article should be created for Johnson's team including the complete history. The redirect goes from something major to something minor (in the big scheme of history). Royalbroil 05:13, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for helping me understand. Nascar1996 11:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Kenton Gray - does he matter or his he just another Scientologist?

OK, excuse my ignorance of all things NASCAR. I'm clearing up a whole pile of Scientology related junk and I came across Kenton Gray. The article has him notable for "Dianetics Racing Team" - which seems to be non-notable Scientology-cruft.

My question is, does this chap have independent notability in NASCAR? If he doesn't I'll go for deletion, if he does, can someone fix up the article to show how? Thanks.--Scott Mac 20:53, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

He's actually a driver, but - I found nothing notable about him. He raced in lower-tier NASCAR series, and Racing Reference has no record of him.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 22:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
I believe it is not notable, but I'm not completely sure. I would look at the standards for race drivers, and see if it is. Nascar1996 23:08, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Strictly amateur drivers who only raced regional and local NASCAR tracks fail WP:ATHLETE. I lost one article that way. I have proposed deletion with a WP:PROD. Royalbroil 04:19, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Note the debate at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kenton Gray--Scott Mac 00:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Television

Hello, do any of you think that our project should include how the season's races were televised? Such as what I have done at 2011 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series? I've began wondering if it is notable because it doesn't really affect the actually season. --Nascar1996 16:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I really don't think that's notable, really. Some might even consider it trivia.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 16:18, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
So do you think I should remove it completely from the article, or just remove the international section and leave the US television thats in the calendar table? --Nascar1996 00:01, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Before doing anything, see if there's any precedent set by the F1 series, and see if they have any televised lists posted. If not, then you can feel safe about removing it entirely from the NASCAR side of things. That's what I would suggest at this point.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 04:15, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I would prefer to see the start time listed as a minimum. Keeping the U.S. television network is fine with me, but there's precedent to remove then it's fine with me. Royalbroil 04:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Thats what I was also thinking. After I seen a comment at our sister project, that said, it has no affect on the season, and I have been thinking about it since then I have agreed that it isn't that notable. So I suppose the result is remove all? --Nascar1996 04:55, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
If it works, go for it.  :)   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 01:14, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Does any of you think testing should be included in season articles? Nascar1996 01:36, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I assume you mean preseason testing not related to a specific race. It belongs in some article, and nowhere else is appropriate. Yes, in the season article. Royalbroil 02:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Thats what I was thinking. Faldacore (excuse spelling mistake if there is one) is believing that it should be removed. Nascar1996 02:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Daytona 500 pace cars

Should there be a Daytona 500 pace cars article like Indianapolis 500 pace cars?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure. Doesn't seem that notable of a topic. The Indy 500 is much larger than the Daytona 500, and is more notable in my opinion. Nascar1996 00:33, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree. The Indy pace cars are typically specially built just for that race "Indy pace car replica", whereas the pace cars used at Daytona are typical NASCAR pace cars.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 01:02, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I'd rather not see any article on this topic. It's not a part of the lore of the race, unlike Indy 500 pace cars. I'm in both relevant WikiProjects. Royalbroil 01:35, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I was just wondering because I have just done this review: Talk:Ford Mustang (first generation)/GA1. I thought the Mustang might have relevant history information regarding being a D500 pace car as well, but I imagine that is insignificant given the feedback I have gotten.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:29, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

New templates

Howdy all. I've created templatess for adding Racing-Reference stats links to pages a la the IMDb templates: {{Racing-Reference driver}}|driver_name and {{Racing-Reference owner}}|owner_name. Can somebody whose template-fu is better than mine perhaps see if there's a way to add a "display name" paramater? (i.e. for when there are multiple drivers in the R-R database with the same name (such as [2] and [3] or when it's necessary to textually distinguish between multiple links (as on the Richard Childress page)? Thanks! - The Bushranger One ping only 22:05, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Template:Infobox NASCAR race

Does anyone else think that we should put the previous winner and team in the infobox for the current races? I noticed the concept on Template:F1 race. I'm not sure if we should also include the pole positon or not. Also, does the race articles (not race reports) need to have the winner's amount of winnings, distance, race time, and average speed needed, even though most are now on the individual race reports? --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I oppose all of these suggestions. It takes too much work to maintain. There have been very few times in the past 5 years when people have been so actively creating articles. I'd rather see no information on the previous race than to sometimes see dated information. The money part isn't very relevant in my opinion. Distance, time and average speed are much more relevant. But I'm concerned about dated information again. WP:DATED is somewhat along the lines of my argument against doing this. There are a lot more people around the world who are interested in Formula One so it's less likely to become dated (I'd still argue against it to them though). Royalbroil 03:44, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Article up for Deletion

Check out Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Menarch and say your opinion (whatever that means). Some expert analysis would be helpful. Royalbroil 12:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Harley J. Earl Trophy/GA1

Would one of you guys be able to fix the issues in this review? The writer's not really active and I would rather not fail it since it's just about to GA status. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:13, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

NASCAR Mexico merge with NASCAR Corona Series

User:Phósphoros has tagged merging the articles without discussion. I want to have a discussion to see if this makes sense. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not understanding why a series should be merged with the company that sanctions it. Since this is now controversial (with my request for discussion), I have started this discussion. Royalbroil 20:59, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Keep separate. They don't need to be merged. --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 21:13, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Move Goody's Fast Pain Relief 500

Do you guys think that Goody's Fast Pain Relief 500 should be moved to Goody's Fast Relief 500? WayneSlam 20:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

No. It's been the way it is for over 2 years now.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 22:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
No. NASCAR races should be named after the current name for the race (except that one who gets renamed each year after a lucky winner). Royalbroil 23:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Actual name of the race is now without the 'Pain.' It seems it changes every year, and different websites have different names for the race. However, the race name for the 2011 race is Goody's Fast Relief 500. --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 01:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Then change my suggestion to Support per my earlier reason. I struck my oppose. Royalbroil 04:05, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:2011 NASCAR Sprint Cup nominated for deletion

Hello, I nominated this template for deletion because it seems rather pointless. Everyone is invited to express their opinions here. --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 20:12, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Then what about all the other NASCAR templates? Are they just as pointless? Why single just this one out?   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 20:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
When I began creating the race articles, they are not needed. No others race articles in other motorsports have it, I think those other season templates should also be deleted. --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 23:46, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

The template was not deleted. Should we add it back to all the articles that it was removed from? Fbdave (talk) 19:57, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

No not in my opinion. The template is large and is completely pointless on the race articles. Maybe if you can reformat it to be similar to {{F1GP 10-19}} so it will not take up as much space and it will be located with the other navigation template then you can. --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
When transcluded in the race articles, the template is very helpful to non-project members. I have no opinion on the format. Fbdave (talk) 19:52, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
There is a template to go race by race, showing the previous and next race on articles in 2010 and 2011. ({{NASCAR next race}}) The season template's format is long and no other Motorsports' (Formula One and IndyCar) article has it. Why should we have it? --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
{{2007 Nextel Cup}}, {{2008 NASCAR Sprint Cup}} and {{2009 NASCAR Sprint Cup}} were used in previous seasons and they all use the same format as {{2011 NASCAR Sprint Cup}}. Fbdave (talk) 01:28, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
I rather would have removed all of those as well. Its not just one template I want to remove. Those were used prior to the creation of the infobox, and before the articles were heavily improved. By the way the viewers could either go to the season article or follow the navigation at the bottom. I remain against the template. --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 01:37, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposal

On the driver articles, are their 'Winnings' notable? If not we should remove them, maybe replace them with Points? --Nascar1996 (talk • contribs) 20:44, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree, the money is trivial and none of the reader's business. If the reader really wants to dig the internet then let them, but I don't think it important enough to bring out in driver's articles. Points made sense in season summaries, but I prefer neither in favorite of listing only their final position in the points. Royalbroil 04:31, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Copyright concerns related to your project

This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Wikipedia:Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located here.

All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk. Thank you. MER-C 09:01, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

The investigation can be found at Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/GVnayR. Fortunately, most of the edits are lower priority such as articles about specific NASCAR races or low priority drivers. Royalbroil 03:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Articles that concern me if they were lost: Jim Reed (racer) (7 wins), Frank Mundy (3 wins + 1955 AAA National Stock car champ), 1970 in NASCAR, Asheville-Weaverville Speedway (34 races between 1951 and 1969), Beltsville Speedway (10 Cup races), Ed Negre (26 Top 10s, finished 12th in 1971 points), Bill Seifert (49 Top 10), Neil Castles (178 Top 10), 1955 in NASCAR, Worth McMillion (18 Top 10), 1963 in NASCAR, Gwyn Staley (3 wins), Joe Eubanks (1 win), 1971 Daytona 500, 1971 in NASCAR, Cayuga Speedway (CASCAR / Canadian Tire Series), Blackie Pitt (1954 Rookie of the Year), Jabe Thomas (77 Top 10), Jim Vandiver (24 Top 10, 15 years), 1961 in NASCAR, Langley Field Speedway, Jimmy Massey (28 Top 10, 1 pole), Frank Warren (NASCAR driver) (29 Top 10), Joe Frasson (19 Top 10, 2nd in rookie points), 2010 in NASCAR, 2009 in NASCAR, 2011 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, Eddie Gray (NASCAR driver) (4 wins), and Lloyd Moore (1 win). Royalbroil 04:23, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Infobox problems

Hello, I have noticed some problems in our infoboxes. When you go to some articles, it may say that 2002 was their last season (example), but it links to 2002 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series. Which does not exist. The same problems are frequent with the other series as well. I have a solution to Cup and the Truck Series by making redirects such as 2002 NASCAR Cup Series and 2002 NASCAR Truck Series. Any other ideas? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 03:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Redirects are cheap and a lot easier than another options. I suppose an AutoWikiBrowser might be programmed to search and change the text but you'd have to be real sharp. Royalbroil 04:48, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
What could the Nationwide Series redirects be called?-- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 13:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm going to use the current name. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 13:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I have two questions, why are all of the lower series combined with the Cup Series, and why are the wins, top tens, and poles like the rest of the infobox, unlike other driver infoboxes? A similar case is with WP:F1, they have higher series and lower series. However, their infobox only has the F1 series, while the others use Infobox Racing driver. Should we keep our infobox real long, or make it shorter? I find it odd how we combined all the series. Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 20:26, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I don't understand your question. With naming the Nationwide and Truck Series articles, it should use the name from the time. So 1999 Nationwide Series should be located at 1999 NASCAR Busch Series. Redirects from 1999 Nationwide Series and 1999 Busch Grand National Series are appropriate. Royalbroil 11:59, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I used 2011 NASCAR Cup Series and redirected it to 2011 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, so it would work with the entire season. For the truck series I created 1995 NASCAR Truck Series and redirected it to 1995 NASCAR SuperTruck Series presented by Craftsman. My comment about the driver's infobox is why did we include the Nationwide Series, the Truck Series, and the Corona Series in the same template with the Cup Series? I was looking at some other driver infoboxes, and noticed that we are also the only one to have our wins, and poles (with the addition of top-fives) side-by-side. Most infoboxes have them going down the infobox, not across. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 13:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I like the current driver's infobox (but I'm not married to it). Almost all Cup drivers raced in the 3 major USA series on their way up and often they race in the other series. The drivers in the other major racing series don't go back into lower series regularly like NASCAR drivers do. I like how the template conserves space for listing the wins, poles, and Top 10s beside each other. Do you want to copy the template into your userspace and give an attempt with how you'd like it layed out? Royalbroil 00:47, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering if it would be better to make the template for wins, top-tens, and poles like all the other templates. However, it would be fine keeping it the way it is. Should we add the Sprint Cup Series, etc on the team's infobox? Should we use {{Infobox sportsperson}} for the crew chief since most don't have statistics? Also (though not related to the topic) When should the 2012 Cup article be started? Its a redirect right now. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 00:59, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I never liked using a copy of the driver's infobox for the crew chiefs. The sportsperson infobox makes more sense to me. The 2012 article is definitely fine to start. It might be fine for 2013 if it can be written with verifiable content. I don't understand what template you're asking about with the teams. Would you please expand your question? Royalbroil 12:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Okay, so we will begin to use the sportsperson infobox. What I meant to ask is: Should we had each series to the team's infobox, similar to the driver infobox? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 13:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Template for discussion

The template, {{Infobox NASCAR crew chief}} is being discussed here. Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 04:44, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Frank Cicci Racing

Hi everyone, I noticed today that the the page for Frank Cicci Racing is in pretty bad shape, it has no sources at all and could probably use some attention. I updated the unsourced tag on the page, but didn't want to add it to your to-do right away; I figured one of you would want to take a look at it and figure out where it would fit best in your list/priorities. It looks like it's had a touch of recent vandalism (since reverted), so someone may want to keep an eye on it as well. Just wanted to drop a note here to let you all know, and thank you for the work you all do around these articles! Christine, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 20:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Maryeve Dufault

I can't believe that her article wasn't created yet and that I got all of you guys with starting her article :P ! It was rough having to research a whole bunch of articles (like Maxim) on this beautiful model! As I expected, the article is already attracting vandalism. So please help me watch it. After work today I'm going straight to stock car races so I won't be able to check it until late tonight. Then I'm leaving for a 1 week vacation tomorrow at this time so I won't be able to watch it much for vandalism which I expect for a model racing in her first NASCAR race in an American series. I may need to protect the article before I leave or you can request semiprotection at WP:RPP. I would request several days past when the race gets done and I would mention that if you do need to request protection. Royalbroil 11:59, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not surprised to see it got a bunch of vandalism on it, so I semi-protected it for 1 week to keep out the anonymous and new editors. I was able to convince a photographer to change the license on a great image of her to Creative Commons so I added it. Royalbroil 05:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Use of state flagicons

An editor has questioned the use of state flagions in articles such as 5-hour Energy 200. You are welcome to express any views you may have in the discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 02:36, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Lists of wins in drivers' articles

An IP editor has been adding lists of wins to driver's articles, including changing the "wins by track" in Kevin Harvick with a table of individual wins, and adding a large table to Ron Hornaday with all 50 of his Truck Series wins. I removed it from both articles as unnecessary detail, but it's been readded to the article in the latter case. While I applaud the effort, this honestly seems a little crufty - does the project have an opinion on this yea/nay? - The Bushranger One ping only 23:44, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Now an editor is repeatedly re-adding tables of win lists to Juan Pablo Montoya. I'm reverting them per WP:NOT#STATS but would appreciate more eyes on the article, and/or dissenting opinions if these are in fact felt valuable to the project. - The Bushranger One ping only 19:38, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
If the user remains to do so leave a message at their talk page. You may also want to give a warning. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 19:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
I posted a notice on his talk page - but he added the info to Montoya's article again. I'm now at 3 reverts there so I'm unwatchlisting it for now - I referred him to the talk page, here, and WP:BRD in my last edit summary. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:13, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
And he's reinserted them again. I've left notes on the article talk page and a note on his talk page to please discuss, since he ignored the edit-summary note. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:12, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Darlington Record Club

I added a new article, Darlington Record Club, once a very prestigious honor in NASCAR. I noticed that several articles (particularly the older drivers) have "Darlington Record Club" mentioned in their bios as an achievement. It would be helpful for the link to the award to now be added wherever it's mentioned. Doctorindy (talk) 17:13, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Nice work! Could you add inline citations though? That would make a nice DYK... - The Bushranger One ping only 17:15, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Good job. Thank you for creating the article. I second, The Bushranger's idea on adding inline citations to make a DYK. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 19:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm working on a little more right now. It would be nice to be a DYK. Doctorindy (talk) 01:54, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposed change to NASCAR driver infobox

An editor has proposed modifying the NASCAR driver infobox to allow the driver's name to be hidden (e.g. for the case where a driver has multiple infoboxes). Please add any views you may have on the matter at the discussion. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 08:33, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Race report template

I've noticed of an editor adding a section for the last place finisher for Template:Infobox NASCAR race report. Is it actually notable enough to be listed in the template. One article having it in the info box is 1975 Champion Spark Plug 400. All opinions are welcomed. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 23:39, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

No; it's not hardly notable. Finishing last is no more notable than finishing 11th, 25th or 50th. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:22, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
I like to believe that for every great race winner in NASCAR, there is also a great race loser. That's why we need to cover the last place driver in addition to the driver that wins the race. GVnayR (talk) 02:28, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
What about the second place driver? He's the "first loser". And then you have start and parkers...personal belief doesn't make the non-notable notable. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:33, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
It's usually a start and parker that finishes in last place. Besides, I feel sympathetic towards the last place driver ever since Joe Nemechek had his slump a couple of years ago and I started reading Brock Beard's LASTCAR blog. GVnayR (talk) 02:36, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
The last place finisher isn't much different than anyone else during the race, does that mean we should include 2-42 as well? No. I believe only the winner (since NASCAR doesn't have podiums) should be listed in the info box. Most of the newer articles 43rd is listed in the results table. Furthermore, would this be too much in an infobox (WP:NOTSTATS)? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 02:52, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
I oppose. Why give special mention to the worst of the start and parks? Ideally the race articles will include the finishing position of entire field. Royalbroil 06:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

NEXTEL Cup change

A lot of articles still link to NEXTEL Cup, which is now a redirect to the Sprint Cup Series. Do you think someone should ask somebody to run a Wikipedia robot to change all of these references from NEXTEL Cup to Sprint Cup Series? The list is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/NEXTEL_Cup -- Guroadrunner (talk) 10:45, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Probably not a good idea to do this as suggested on the move instructions. Here's why. Check out the Rusty Wallace article. When he raced in the series, it was called the NEXTEL Cup which is how it should be referred to in his article since that was the name when he retired. On the first mention, I'd use the form NEXTEL Cup (now Sprint Cup Series). See Alan Kulwicki - first paragraph of the lead section It's much better if someone goes through these manually (even the AWB won't do very well). For the drivers who went from NEXTEL Cup to Sprint Cup, then the series' name change should be a sentence in the text. There's between 100 and 200 articles / pages to change. Royalbroil 06:24, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments on this. This is why I wanted to be sure to ask, becuase Winston Cup Series could easily be put under the same issue (numerous people argued Ray Elder never raced in the current name of the Winston West series in the NASCAR.com comments section, for example.) -- Guroadrunner (talk) 08:40, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Table links

Me and a fellow user have different opinions on table links. The other user, Nascarking, believes that there should be no repeated links in tables. However, I have since I was told to while trying to edit an article to Good Article status. The most recent changes were on 2012 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series. Many of the articles I have significantly contributed to have repeated links. WP:REPEATLINK, which is rather confusing on the subject, states, "Generally, a link should appear only once in an article, but if helpful for readers, links may be repeated in infoboxes, tables, image captions, and at the first occurrence after the lead." Does that mean no repeated links or the opposite? Any other opinions? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 03:30, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

It means that in general, links should not be repeated, unless the repeated links are helpful. I find repeated links in tables to be helpful, because you can navigate to the target of the link from where you are in the table. If links aren't repeated, you might have to scroll back a long way to find the link, thereby losing your context. I believe WP:LINK used to say "Each row of a table should be able to stand on it's own", but it doesn't seem to say that any more. As an aside, the Formula One WikiProject has a convention for all instances of constructor and engine names to be linked in race result tables (i.e. for the links to be repeated). DH85868993 (talk) 02:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
I also believe the links are helpful, most definitely on the longer tables. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 11:35, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Also agreed on usefulness here. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:39, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree -- they're useful in tables and that's how I've been normally seeing them done lately. One of many philosophical changes that I've seen go around in circles since I've been helping at Wikipedia. Royalbroil 03:21, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Flag Icons

I can imagine there's been a convention on state flags and I don't know if there's been a discussion on this but I wanna throw out the idea of using National flag i.e. United States Canada Mexico and so on. I know half the articles would just have US flags but considering that other racing articles use National flags (like Rolex 24 at Daytona, 24 Hours of Le Mans and even the Indianapolis 500), we should apply this to NASCAR articles.--Daytona 500 21:40, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I oppose. Flagicons have no purpose for being in any of the NASCAR articles. I know of two instances that the flag icons were discussed and the result was to remove them. The reader could always go to the driver's article to see their nationality. Since many of the race winners have been from the US, it's better to leave a note saying that the driver was not from the US. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 03:08, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Half the winners of the Indy 500 have been United States but they still use United States on the list of Indy 500 winners.--Daytona 500 14:56, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Half compared to all except one? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 20:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
No, I don't think flagicons are necessary in NASCAR articles owing to the lack of international flair the series have. I mean, out of the three main series fields', we only have Monty, Ambrose, Papis, Fellows, Fitzpatrick, Piquet, Paludo, and the hose of Canadians who take normally only part in the Montréal race. IndyCar is different in two facts: 1. The 500 was part of the F1 championship for ten years; 2. There is quite an international flair in it these days with two-thirds of the field not being American. TheChrisD Rants•Edits 13:00, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose This is not acceptable per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (icons)#Avoid flag icons in infoboxes. This was just discussed and it's probably in the last archive. Royalbroil 00:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
    I think we are talking about in tables, not info boxes. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 00:49, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
    You're right, Nascar1996, but I still strongly oppose per the next section up in the Manual of Style (icon). The flags don't convey special meaning; they are just there for decoration. Royalbroil 05:58, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Car number and team

Our project has many different ways to put the car number and team in the biography infobox. Should we just decide on one so all the articles can be consistant? There are #51 - Phoenix Racing, #51 Phoenix Racing Chevrolet and No. 51 - Phoenix Racing. I'm more in favor of something similar to No. 51 (Phoenix Racing). Any other ideas? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 14:29, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

  • There probably should be a standard. I'd actually prefer something along the lines of "#51 (Phoenix Racing)", the "No." avoids the need for nowiki tags but just looks odd to my eye. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
    • I would prefer No. instead of #. Some of the season pages use 'No' on top of the tables for car number. Another use for 'No' is on the tables on race reports. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 17:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
      • I prefer the same as Bushranger. Too bad it's harder for anons but oh well. Royalbroil 02:25, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
        • Doesn't MOS:NUMBERSIGN show that # would be incorrect while No. would be correct? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 02:54, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
          • Obviously the MOS wins this discussion. I don't like "Number" so "No." is how I think it should be done. Royalbroil 04:02, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
            • I don't suppose WP:COMMONNAME (with a dash of WP:IAR) would allow for an exception, though? Everybody that I've seen, including NASCAR itself, seems to use the "#"; using "No." makes it look like things were written by some stuffy old tea-drinking chap in tweed... - The Bushranger One ping only 17:39, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
              • Hmm, this, this, and this from NASCAR.COM all use No. instead of #. This article from ESPN also uses No. instead of #. Since they are all big websites for NASCAR, shouldn't we use No.? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 20:17, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
                • Common name doesn't apply when it is not actually a name. --Falcadore (talk) 20:28, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
                  • Huh, didn't realise they used it. Ah well. I'll grudingly make No. more complaints. =P - The Bushranger One ping only 20:32, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

List of Foreign NASCAR race winners

Is there a good reason for keep this article? List of Foreign NASCAR race winners. Considering the previous deletion of List of Chevrolet NASCAR wins and its friends based on it was a stats fork. --Falcadore (talk) 02:17, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I personally believe it's a notable-enough topic for an article (full disclaimer: I was asked about it and encouraged its creation). - The Bushranger One ping only 04:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Based on current status notability is not established. There should be some form of referenced explanation as to why this is a significant table. --Falcadore (talk) 07:49, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
I also think it's a notable topic. I'm sure more references can be found. One thing needed to improve on the article is that it uses national flags to convey the country of the person which isn't the right way to do it. Royalbroil 02:28, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
One of many examples of inappropriate use of tables. Prose could easily cover the topic and it would be easier to reference and establish notability. --Falcadore (talk) 08:27, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Notability of ASA Midwest Tour race reports?

I came across several race report articles for the ASA Midwest Tour - the entire 2007 and 2008 seasons, and most of the 2009 season. Considering that even the Nationwide Series and Truck series don't have individual race reports, are these needed? Should they be merged into season articles, or even into the main series article? Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 03:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Full list of articles
I'd say they should be season articles. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:26, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
I don't have a strong opinion despite what I'm about to write. Playing the Devil's advocate: What's the rationale for deletion / merge? I'm sure that the author could easily provide strong reliable sources from major media outlets to verify the information if given the chance. I saw the articles get slowly added and I had no problem with them. Why not if someone wants to spend the time? Now the time has already been spent. Wouldn't the merged articles be too long anyhow? Royalbroil 06:52, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
I would merge the articles to form a season article. Sprint Cup Series race reports are known to have enough notability to be created. However, I know one Truck race that was created after Kyle Busch's incident at Texas (2011 WinStar World Casino 350K) which may need to be deleted. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 11:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
It did get quite a lot of press, and it had an wider effect than just the truck series. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 04:42, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
In my opinion, individual races should be allowed for all of the big 3 NASCAR series. There's no question in my mind that there's enough reliable sources on all of them. Royalbroil 06:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
To advocate back, Royal, if there are loads of independent, reliable sources waiting to be added to the articles, why hasn't someone added them already? A Google News search only brings up 4 hits, one is an off-hand mention in an editorial about IndyCar, one is a press release from a driver, one is about a track rescheduling it's date and one is a press release from the series about it's champions (about the season, not any individual race). I think having so many articles on what amounts to a regional, fifth-tier (at best) series borders on undue weight, on top of the fact that there doesn't seem to be much third-party coverage of the series. If one were to simply cram all of the information into season articles, yes, they would be too long, but if formatted like all the other season articles wouldn't be any longer than, well, the other season articles. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 04:42, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

So, it's been nearly a month, and the original author of these pages, User:Justingrosser, hasn't responded (he doesn't appear to be very active any more). I'm going to start putting together the season articles, and once they're done, redirect the race articles. Unless there's any objections to that plan? Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 18:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Infobox NASCAR driver

Seeing as it has entries for the Corona Series, is there any way to modify {{Infobox NASCAR driver}} to have a section for Canadian Tire Series stats? - The Bushranger One ping only 21:37, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure, why not? We have most of the other series in there. We do have {{Infobox racing driver}}, though :P. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 21:53, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Yup - but it's not as pretty and doesn't have specific entries for Cup and Busch. ;) (see Andrew Ranger for my motivation). - The Bushranger One ping only 22:02, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Yes, but it does have entries for previous series. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 22:10, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
  • No one has edited that template. Seems like we have a bigger problem. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 00:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
It might be as a result of the changes that were made to Mediawiki:Common.css to fix this problem. DH85868993 (talk) 02:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
That is probably the cause. I'll try something. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 02:38, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
It's working now. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:19, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
  • It looks good, thank you! Long term consensus on the "Last Race" field has always been to just include it for retired drivers since no one spends the time to update each driver after every race. I suppose at some point the Busch and Craftsman field titles should be updated to the current series names. That's an ugly thought! Royalbroil 03:28, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
  • I'd say as long as they display the correct titles, leave the parameters as-is. :p And glad to help out. I include the "last race" for drivers who appear to be retired in a series since - for instance - there's little chance of Kurt Busch adding another Truck Series start newer than 2001 anytime soon. ;) - The Bushranger One ping only 04:58, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
  • For the last race field, anons and limited contributors have been adding in occasional races for years and ignore the date on the infobox. So it has consistently been applied inconsistently. The field exists just so people have an idea when a driver raced after they retired. To use your example, Kurt could easily do a one-time truck start and not have anyone update the field. It happened all of the time. I don't think last field should be added for any series on active drivers, except if someone volunteers to update every infobox after every race. Otherwise the information in the infoboxes are consistently wrong and outdated. I'd rather see nothing that something wrong. Royalbroil 06:15, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, I've been doing the post-race updates so far, so I might well voluenteer. ;) Drivers who are regulars or semi-regulars shouldn't have the field filled of course, but IMHO it's better to have it filled for drivers who will likely not compete in a series again, and I'd be willing to try and keep up with that. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Do I read this right? You are willing to update each driver in all of the NASCAR series after each race? If so, that's incredible! Royalbroil 13:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
You could create something like {{Latest F1GP}} and put it on the "regular" drivers' pages (c.f. Sebastian Vettel). Then you'd only have to edit the part-timers and one-offs. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 18:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, almost all. ;) The way I'm thinking of doing it it, drivers not intended to run in a series in a season would have the "last race" block filled in - but, if they did, over the course of the season, run in that series, I'd come along and remove or update the previous "last race" entry. Drivers running regularly in a series (like, say, Jimmie) wouldn't have the field filled at all. However, Spyder's suggestion sounds even better than that - I think I might look into that! - The Bushranger One ping only 21:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
And I've created {{Latest NASCAR Cup}}, and tested it on Greg Biffle - eet vorks! [/MadScientistVoice] So yeah, I'd be willing to take on the Official Updater of the Last Race Infobox title. :) (Not having a life does have its advantages...) - The Bushranger One ping only 21:42, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Now created {{Latest NASCAR Busch}}, tested on Mike Wallace (racing driver), and {{Latest NASCAR Truck}}, tested on Ty Dillon. I believe I can do this thing. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:30, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Sadly it will only work for full-time drivers, not part-time. However, there are not as many drivers as it used to be. Nice job BTW. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 04:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I found one minor change the template does on the infobox. Compared with Jimmie Johnson, Mike Wallace (racing driver)'s First race, etc is far more spread apart. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 04:20, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Huh - they look the same to me (Firefox 5.0), maybe it's a browser thing. And thanks. ^_^- The Bushranger One ping only 07:20, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

List of drivers and teams

Since we removed the flag icons from race articles, should we go ahead and remove the icons on List of NASCAR drivers, List of former NASCAR drivers and List of NASCAR teams? What about removing the colors in the back ground of the car numbers? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 17:16, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes to all. Royalbroil 02:09, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Maryeve Dufault

An anonymous contributor, claiming to be her, has been repeatedly inserting WP:PEACOCK paragraphs of statements into the article "is more than just a pretty face", "Maryeve's exceptional driving talents", etc. I have done enough editing and reverting so I want others to review the changes. Anon has been removing a well sourced statement about winning Miss Hawaiian Tropic which is attributed to the Toledo Blade. Royalbroil 02:09, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I took a look and my prompt reaction: Facepalm Facepalm. I've reverted the flock of peacocks and added a note about NPOV to the IP's talk page. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I knew it was an easy decision but I needed consensus behind me. It immediately returned. I'm going to attempt to get some discussion going with the anon on the talk page so we can explain why. Royalbroil 03:09, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
  • They're back and re-inserting the same content into the article, as well as removing infobox content (missing where it was explained that the "position" fields are points, not race finish) - including accusations of bad faith in their edit summaries. I've posted a lenghier note on their talk page trying to head off the WP:EW and WP:IDHT they're illustrating. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:52, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

"A QUESTION..."

(With apologies to the Guardian of Forever.) Should Red Bull Racing Team be left as-is now that the team is defunct - or should it be renamed to BK Racing, as the latter has essentially acquired the former lock, stock and owners' points? - The Bushranger One ping only 01:34, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I think the two articles should remain separate. They are two different teams with different owners and sponsors. They just bought the left-over equipment from RBRT. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 02:13, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:14, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Cats for deletion

I have nominated a number of categories related to the project for deletion; the discussion is located here. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:25, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Template for deletion

Since the team is defunct and the navbox was out of date without any "past" information, I've nominated {{Kevin Harvick Inc.}} for deletion. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:28, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The #10 Cup car

Right, this is obviously a bit of a topic recently given the whole "alliance" between Stewart-Haas and Tommy Baldwin. Obviously Danica was signed as a Stewart-Haas driver, however after a little sleuthing this page - http://www.nascar.com/drivers/list/cup/dps/ - on the NASCAR website definitely indicates that the #10 is fielded by Tommy Baldwin for both Danica and Reuti. This does go with the details of the points deal to give Danica her guaranteed spot in the 500. Per [4]:

NASCAR does not allow points to be bought but does allow the transfer of points as long as the original owner maintains a minority ownership stake in the car. Team owner Tommy Baldwin said the car will run all season under the Tommy Baldwin Racing banner, even when Patrick drives it, and insisted the points weren't outright sold. "She's not getting them from anybody – she's driving for Tommy Baldwin Racing," Baldwin said about the points. "Those points are Tommy Baldwin Racing's. They're not hers."

So, with these details how are we going to handle this across the Wiki in all the tables? Stating TBR on it's own? Having a long, bloated banner mentioning both TBR and SHR, TBR with a abbreviation stating the alliance? TheChrisD Rants•Edits 02:56, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Basically "Stewart-Haas Racing/Tommy Baldwin Racing" when referring to the Danica-driven No. 10 (as opposed to the Reutimann-driven races) seems to be the most logical way to handle it. In cases where only one can be used, though, TBR should be, since it is, techncially, Tommy's car even then, just with lots of SHR technical assistiance. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:07, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

The merger won't exist for 2013 since DP's moving up to Cup with SHRGaeaman787 (talk) 00:48, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Article moves

Yesterday, JabMan149 (talk · contribs) moved several race articles to their temporary names (such as Wonderful Pistachios 400 to Sprint Cup Series 400 and Heluva Good! Sour Cream Dips at The Glen to NASCAR Sprint Cup Series at The Glen). Should an editor revert these changes or wait until they find a sponsor for the race where these moves were unnecessary? Last, the editor also moved Brickyard 400 to Crown Royal Presents the Your Hero's Name Here 400 at the Brickyard. Since we even discussed the issue, and wanted to keep its original name should we change the article's name back? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 04:01, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Revert until the races actually take place. Although even then I still don't see much of a need for sponsors in race names unless it's iconic. Also, definitely revert the Brickyard change, the race is iconic as the Brickyard 400, regardless of current sponsor. TheChrisD Rants•Edits 10:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Done, done, and done. - The Bushranger One ping only 10:26, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm....

Just came across List of female NASCAR drivers this. I'm not entirely sure this is something we need (at the very least, there's a number of issues that jump out at me), thoughts? - The Bushranger One ping only 17:09, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

</lurk>. Also I mentioned this thread to User:ZappaOMati as the creator and editor of the article. I think I understand where Bushranger is going with this. I doubt I've been active enough in the project (at least lately) that I can offer a view yet. Question: are there similar lists across other projects? And specifically other sporting projects? (yea, yea .. I know about "WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS" - but I think it relates to consistency across the WP project as a whole.). — Ched :  ?  17:49, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
That's a good question, I'll have to look around. One thing that really jumped out at me is that the table apparently lumps together Cup, Busch/Nationwide and Trucks (without doing so). It's an intriguing topic, to be sure, and kudos on putting the data together, but I'm not sure this particular attempt doesn't need some WP:TNT. :) - The Bushranger One ping only 19:59, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
When I first looked at it - I thought it was kinda neat; but the more I thought about WP:NOTTRIVIA (WP:INDISCRIMINATE) the more I thought your post was relevant. Also, we don't have List of male NASCAR drivers - but that's headed into an area that's kinda spooky. :). I would like to get back to stuff in this project (I have some old stuff related to early years in NASCAR) - and this looked like a good jumping in spot. Are you thinking it (female list) doesn't belong at all? .. Or that the table should be separated into various cats such as Cup, Nationwide, and Trucks? ..... or ... were you thinking of expanding into List of female auto-racing drivers and adding F1, Indy, etc. .... or.... were you thinking of some sort of special note (†) note that indicates female in our current lists? ... or .... LOL ... talk to me buddy. — Ched :  ?  21:42, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
I think List of female NASCAR drivers is a valid topic, but as I said this needs the ol' WP:TNT applied. Splitting them between Truck, Cup and Busch would be a good start - as would getting rid of all those colors (ugh) and perhaps also removing the "team" part, instead simply being marked "* - active" or something. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:06, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Considering the fact that I only had 2 hours to write it before I had to do other stuff, I wouldn't really mind giving it WP:TNT, or splitting it. I'll figure out something. Zappa (talk) 01:12, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
But with the somewhat lack of info, it'd take a while. Zappa (talk) 01:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
I'll see what I can find for refs over the next few days too. — Ched :  ?  01:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Before I do anything, maybe we should move this discussion to Talk:List of female NASCAR drivers.Zappa (talk) 02:18, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

 Done Well, I just finished separating the stats and drivers, and removed the colors. So what do you guys think? Zappa (talk) 23:02, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

👍 Like - The Bushranger One ping only 23:27, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
👍 Like — Ched :  ?  23:39, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Old vandalism: keep an eye out

Some egg on all our faces (including mine, perhaps!) when I saw this edit just now where an IP zapped from old WP:MADEUP stuff from Greg Biffle's bio...that had been in the article since this edit] last May, and (after a quick Googling) not only proved to be, well, WP:MADEUP but had also made its way into an article (clearly sourced from Wikipedia) on Skirts 'n Scuffs...oops! Now where'd I leave my glasses... - The Bushranger One ping only 19:59, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I'll start watchlisting some of the cup and guys from history. — Ched :  ?  21:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Seminole Speedway

I've just created an article on this pioneering track, but references - especially for the period of the track's closing - are scarce. Can anyone help out? Thanks! - The Bushranger One ping only 23:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing in my NASCAR book (The Unauthorized NASCAR Fan Guide 1998-99 - Bill Fleischman and Al Pearce). Royalbroil 01:48, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I've added a source (The History of America's Speedways Past & Present) with dates for the two layouts. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 02:08, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Much thanks! - The Bushranger One ping only 03:02, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was merge into NASCAR on television and radio. Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 00:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

In January, an editor proposed that List of NASCAR races on television should be merged into NASCAR on television and radio. I agree with the proposal because the article lists only five races in the 1960s and it wouldn't be notable to list all the races on broadcast on television since nowadays it is every one of them. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 19:40, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Support Zappa (talk) 19:44, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Support Royalbroil 03:13, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Indeed - The Bushranger One ping only 07:31, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Major League

Perhaps this may need some attention Template Talk:Major Leagues. --Falcadore (talk) 03:03, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Query

I've managed to scrape together enough information to create a page for the guy with the second most unfortunate name in NASCAR, Robbie Faggart. What I can't do though is find a birthdate for him. Does anyone have this information? - The Bushranger One ping only 05:51, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I found his date as july 24, 1960. ZappaOMati 06:34, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Much thanks! - The Bushranger One ping only 06:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
  • And can anyone add an Image_size parameter to {{Infobox NASCAR race report}}? Thanks. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
    • It uses |image-size = instead of Image_size, otherwise it is set at 180px. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 12:24, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
      • Ahh, gotcha. Thanks! - The Bushranger One ping only 15:00, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
        • Sorry, I missed the thread until now. I remember Roggie Faggart - wasn't he mainly a Busch North or Modified Tour driver? I think of the northeast when I think of him. Royalbroil 03:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
          • Actually, no - he ran Humpy Wheeler's ill-starred Sportsman Division, a cursed racing series if there ever was one (and apparently one that everyone wants to, perhaps understandably, forget ever existed - it ran from 1989 until 1995, and his 1992 championship is the only series championship I can find anything on at all). - The Bushranger One ping only 03:13, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Road America Nationwide race

Does anyone have any requests? I'll for sure photograph the entire field and hopefully the drivers will stand this year so I can photograph them when they ride for their parade lap before the race (*especially Danica!). I just ordered my tickets. It's a combined event along with the sports car race earlier in the day. Is there any other requests for specific car parts? Other years I photographed a splitter, jet dryer, course workers displaying a blue flag, etc. I'm going to be gone starting Wednesday 6/20 until after the race. Royalbroil 03:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, you've already covered some of the "needs". ;) But pics of drivers we don't have pics of (Jason Bowles, for instance) are always good! - The Bushranger One ping only 22:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
Hopefully the drivers will stand for the parade laps before the race like they did years ago. Last year only the veteran drivers stood waving at the fans. The rest sat in the passenger seat where no one could see them. If they stand then I should get a great shot of all drivers. My camera can take 3 photos per second and I'll be pushing it to the max! I took 230 photos in 3 minutes in 2010. Royalbroil 04:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Looks like we'll be needing an article on Bill Prietzel soon too! - The Bushranger One ping only 23:14, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
I have many photographs of his Mid American car from over the years. He drove the most impressive / memorable win that I've ever seen in the thousands of features that I've attended. In a 2008 Mid-American Stock Car Series race (versus a Formula Libre field which included NASCAR cars) at Road America, Prietzel spun out and had to start at the back of the pack. It was a 10 laps of green race (40 miles). Prietel was following a car that was so slow that it couldn't catch up to the field during a lap 1 caution. Prietzel and some other cars ended up restarting the race about 1/2 lap (2 miles) behind the field. Prietzel made up the WHOLE distance in just 9 laps (36 miles) for the win [5]. My video of the winning pass on the last lap. Please let me upload photos of Prietzel instead of using my flickr photos. His car is on the left on this photo but as you can see I have better. Royalbroil 04:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
Sure thing. I can't find many sources through Google beyond passing mentions and/or at local events, so you can handle this one start to finish. And that's pretty cool! - The Bushranger One ping only 04:46, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
I got nice photographs of all Nationwide drivers. Not all were looking at me but I did shoot all drivers at hi res 10 megapixel. I'm looking through them now. It will take quite a bit of time to crop all of them and upload them. Royalbroil 01:36, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Are you planning to upload them here first or Flickr? Either way, I can't wait to see them. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 02:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
I just located and cropped all of the drivers. Both Matt Bell (racing driver) and T. J. Bell rode in the same truck for driver's introductions. Looking at their drivers suits makes it pretty clear who is who. However, the Wikipedia photo for Matt looks closest to T.J.'s photo. I'm going to upload them based on their driver's suits and let's try to figure it out. I can always rename them at Commons since I'm an admin there. I was saddened to see how stoic Kurt Busch was. He just stared forward emotionless ignoring the crowd. Maybe I'm the only NASCAR fan who don't hate him. I think he's fine. Who else besides Bill Prietzel don't have an article? I know Kyle Kelley is also fairly notable for his road racing experience. Royalbroil 00:16, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, the photo we currently have for Matt is definitly Matt...and hmmm. Prietzel, Kelley, Kenny Habul, John Young, Josh Richards, Matt Frahm - I think all the rest have pages, although most don't have pics! - The Bushranger One ping only 00:23, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
You're right, I'm adding photos from most drivers. Two of those drivers are pretty notable. Josh Richards has been a professional driver for a long time on the dirt in the WoO Late Models. Kenny Habul raced in Formula 3 and he's from Australia. Royalbroil 01:32, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

T. J. Bell versus Matt Bell (racing driver)

I have added images of both drivers assuming that their jerseys match their cars. Do you guys think that I matched up the drivers correctly? Royalbroil 02:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Invitation

Is it alright with anyone if I create an invitation for this WikiProject? I already tried making one for WikiProject Chicago Bears (this one), and I'm thinking of creating one for this project, which currently only has 34 members. ZappaOMati 02:59, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

What do you want to use it for? Who would you invite? Royalbroil 05:04, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
For question 1: I guess to lighten the workload for some of us, or increase the amount of knowledge of this project; and for question 2: Any user that shows interest in NASCAR-related pages that isn't a member of this project. ZappaOMati 14:32, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello Everybody!

My name is Jayemd, the newest member of WikiProject NASCAR! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayemd (talk • contribs) 20:55, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Glad to have you aboard! ZappaOMati 22:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Welcome aboard! Please feel free to ask us more experienced Wikipedians any questions about anything. I know it was hard to learn what Wikipedians expect - it's much harder now. The biggest advise that I can give is don't upload photographs except if you took them yourself. Otherwise they need to be free use following the image use policy which is complicated. Royalbroil 01:54, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello there! Welcome to WikiProject NASCAR! As Royalbroil stated, please feel free to ask us any questions about Wikipedia. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 02:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Things To Do

I'll be working on expanding articles, from stub to FA. --Jayemd (talk) 00:25, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Rick Hendrick

A few people on Rick Hendrick's talk page was wondering if something about his son should be added. Since it wasn't Ricky Hendrick's biography I said no because I thought it wasn't notable, but one editor decided to add it here. I was just wondering if it should have been added at all, or should there have been little mention of his son, such as, "And is the father of the late Ricky Hendrick?" -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 02:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Since Ricky has his own article, I believe WP:UNDUE applies and have reverted forewith. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:59, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

2013 seasons

When should we create the 2013 articles? Silly season has already began, and some race dates have already been released, though their aren't many. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 22:01, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Can verifiable information be found yet? Definitely yes per WP:CBALL. It is easily verified that Kenseth is a free agent for next year for example. I wouldn't do 2014 just yet until verified information is found. Royalbroil 23:59, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
So it can be created now? Not only is Kenseth one of the big names in silly season, but Penske Racing switching to Ford as well. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 00:02, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Are there any other information found yet? In my opinion, we could wait until we can get some more news about the other drivers. ZappaOMati 00:19, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Speaking of the amount of people already under a contract that extends past 2013, e.g. Jimmie Johnson (2015, [6]), and that the 2013 Daytona 500 will be ran on February 24, 2013. (Daytona Shootout held on February 16), I'd say it is about time to start it. However, the only reference I could find about the Daytona Shootout race day is at Daytona International Speedway's website. More important information that probably would help with the article are the announcements of the new cars (Ford Fusion, Dodge Charger, Chevrolet SS, Toyota Camry). However, I'm hearing a lot of speculation that there is going to be an announcement about Dodge's future with the sport at Indianapolis in two weeks . The 2013 official racing schedule should be released next month or in September; maybe we should wait until then. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs)
Looking at CBALL: 1) Are the events expected to happen? Definitely 2) Can verifiable information be found? Yes - Daytona's website is verification proof and it is reliable. You only need about 2 pieces of verifiable information to start an article - not a complete article. Just be careful about speculation - only use if printed by someone reliable (not a blog except if its from a writer for ESPN, NASCAR, Sporting News, Yahoo, etc). I'm sure that you could start an article about 2014 if you wanted to - some driver's contract will be up which would be verifiable. There's no reason to wait for 2013 - just use reliable sources to write it. Royalbroil 05:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Here is a different question for the 2013 seasons, should we continue to include sponsors in the driver table? It changes so frequently and I'm wondering if it should be removed. I never liked them on the race report articles, and now [somehow] we agreed to remove them. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 21:43, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I'd say to have it zapped - given the merry-go-round of sponsorship these days, full-season deals are now the exception, not the rule. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:36, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Right now, I'm creating the article in my sandbox. I still have some things I'll have to add such as the new cars, but there is the driver's table and the only confirmed races so far. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 20:24, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
I think that team sponsors aren't relevant for season articles. But I know that American motorsport is very different from European and South American motorsport, so I don't complain that much. --NaBUru38 (talk) 16:37, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
It looks better without the sponsors - like several of you said it changes too rapidly now not like a few years ago. The article good enough to publish once you add a little text. Except if you want to really flesh it out and do a DYK. Royalbroil 12:13, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I think we should wait till NASCAR releases the schedule for 2013 before we create next seasons article.--Daytona 500 21:44, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Looks like I have finished expanding the article, but it only has 245 words and 30 references. If anyone would read over it and make sure there is any problems and nothing is missing from the article it would be well appreciated. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 04:44, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

There's a similar deletion discussion about a 2014 article at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2014 International V8 Supercars Championship. Royalbroil 05:34, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah 2014 is a little too far away. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 15:27, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

There are only six-seven full season sponsors, so would not listing sponsors N'Wide and Trucks as well, given alot of their drivers have multiple sponsorships throughout a season. Why would this not apply to IndyCar? I put a reference that Mears had a 2012 and beyond contract. Granted that the Kenseth/Gibbs announcement is coming tomorrow @ 1, and the Logano/Penske one most likely this same week, you should lock down the page (if you haven't already.) The big mystery in this one is if Sam's coming up to Cup with Alliance Truck Parts.Gaeaman787 (talk) 00:18, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

note:

I've been working on 1961 Daytona 500, and while I intend to do a lot more with it, it's getting close to the "5 day" thing as far as expansion for dyk. If someone wants to do something as far as dyk goes, I'm fine with that - although I'm more interested in building the article which may take me another week or so. I haven't added any pics, or results for either the qualifiers or the 500 yet. I also haven't finished going through more refs at: my sandbox. I'm just dropping a note in case someone here wants a dyk for the project. Chedzilla (talk) 16:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

OK .. did a quick add of top 10 for the 500 .. will build full table later. prolly needs wiki links added too. I'm done for a while .. sorry if I caused an ec with ya Zappa. Chedzilla (talk) 16:55, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

General updates

There are a good chunk of Sprint Cup drivers who need their main images updated for at least the current year or last year. Example: we're using Joe Nemechek's picture from 2005 or so, and he's grown a beard since then. Some of the drivers of course are Tony Stewart, Ryan Newman, Jamie McMurray, Kasey Kahne, Dave Blaney. Other drivers need some images on their profiles. Matt Kenseth's is what I'd call a NASCAR driver's page standard, containing biographical information, pictures of them throughout their racing career, perhaps a few shots in press conferences. So I'm just looking to see how we could update the drivers images. Also, Kelley Earnhardt Miller seriously needs her own page, she's a ex-driver and has a pretty notable career with JRM.

Also, I've tried to keep all the driver stats up to date. Some of them have said "He will join x team for the 2009 season." I think I got most of them, but I'll keep checking around. We should also lock down Kenseth, Logano, and Hornish's pages for the week since the Kenseth Gibbs announement is tomorrow, and most likely the Logano to Penske one on the same day. Also a good choice of lockdown is Elliot Sadler's since there's a weird rumor about him going to Gibbs and leaving RCR...which opens up more plotholes in the N'Wide series. Gaeaman787 (talk) 00:48, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

template

I noticed an issue with one of our templates. this one. The problem is that when we're in the "Grand National" era, the link leads to the horse related Grand National. (seen at: 1970 NASCAR Grand National Series and others) I've copied the code for the template to my sandbox, and I'll try to figure it out - but it may take some time, and it's not on my high priority list. If any of you guys or gals are good with templates .. suggestions would be welcomed. Thanks. Chedzilla (talk) 07:36, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

No changes are required to the template, just a change to the call. You've got several options, depending how you want the template to appear:
This produces
{{Motorsport season | series = Grand National Series | link = in NASCAR | year = 1970 }}
{{Motorsport season | title = [[Grand National Series]] | link = in NASCAR | year = 1970 }}
{{Motorsport season | title = NASCAR [[Grand National Series]] | link = in NASCAR | year = 1970 }}
{{Motorsport season | title = [[Grand National Series|NASCAR Grand National Series]] | link = in NASCAR | year = 1970 }}

DH85868993 (talk) 08:08, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

thank you very much DH .. I just may be asking for some template help in the future. Good deal .. ty. Chedzilla (talk) 10:50, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

ARCA at MIS

I'm hoping to go to the ARCA race at Madison International Speedway on Sunday afternoon (info). I'll try to be there for the autographs session to photograph some of the drivers, especially Kimmel, Chase Elliot, and James Hylton. Plus I'll photograph the cars. Does anyone have any other requests? Royalbroil 12:28, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm envious. ARCA always puts on a good show! And we're certainly long overdue for a picture of Frank. Hm...checking the entry list, any chance you could try to get pix of Chris Buescher, Tom Hessert and Milka Duno in particular? (Of course, the more drivers you can get in total the better! ) And have fun! - The Bushranger One ping only 18:33, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Whoa, I didn't know that Milka Duno moved to ARCA! And I didn't know that she had modeled. My camera LOVES models! The drivers should be accessible during their autograph session. I hope to photograph all of the drivers. I for sure can photograph their cars over the fence with my telephoto. I'll try to get a photo of the field if possible. I've never been to an ARCA show before as it's the second time that they've come to Wisconsin in decades. Royalbroil 05:09, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Heh. (BTW, I updated the article - Milka's in the 94 now). ARCA definitly needs some Wikilove! - The Bushranger One ping only 05:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Major rain was in the area so I decided to not drive for hours to get there. They delayed the start to dry the track and it would have been too late on a Sunday evening. Royalbroil 01:55, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Shame. Ah well, there's always next year! - The Bushranger One ping only 04:30, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Question regarding a category...

Is Category:NASCAR Rookies of the Year really necessary? It seems to me that it does the same thing as {{NASCARROTY}}, just not as well. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:04, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Neutral: It being a defining characteristic is marginal in my opinion. Royalbroil 01:58, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Sent it to CfD here. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:54, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Team charts

What's going on with thr Sprint Cup drivers charts? --Falcadore (talk) 13:33, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean? - The Bushranger One ping only 00:51, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Compare: [7] and [8]. CS-Wolves has been reverting the changes to the 2011 page, but it's happenning on earlier pages to. IP completely changing the format, including those not so great coloured race number boxes. --Falcadore (talk) 04:12, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Aiiiiii, my eyes! No idea but those absolutely are no-good compared to the previous versions. I'm reverting them all - if he keeps it up they may need to be protected... - The Bushranger One ping only 05:31, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I restored everything back to 2004 before the IP got to it - he's also gotten 2001, 2002, 2003, and 1998, at leastevery previous season back to 1990. Some of the changes do appear to be constructive - for instance, adding Kenny Wallace to the #1 car for 2001 - but there's so much format-breaking otherwise that sorting the wheat from the chaff is nearly impossible. v.v - The Bushranger One ping only 05:44, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

It would appear that the IP has now signed up as Jlagasse790 (talk · contribs). Still unconvinced by the edits being made by that user, so have reverted. But yeah, just a heads up. Craig(talk) 18:13, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Nuisance IP editor

User:65.41.182.140 is going through and making nuisance edits to a whole bunch of article that I don't have the time to track down and repair - someone may want to help with fix? --Falcadore (talk) 16:02, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I reverted the rest of the edits. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 16:15, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Updates

So are we eschewing sponsorships on season pages from now on? Because that's what I saw in discussion. Also, Casey Mears signed a deal to stick with Germain beyond 2012, and I believe Regan Smith has as well.

Since the big Kenseth/Gibbs announcement is tomorrow, it'd be a good idea to lock his and Joey Logano's pages, since Joey going to Penske might be on the same day.

In terms of pages, the information needs to be updated. Some of them have (x will be joining Team Speed for the 2009 season with sponsorship from BobCo.) The information includes pictures. Joe Nemechek has grown a beard and mustache and we're still using his 2005 picture. Also, why doesn't Kelley Earnhardt Miller have a page?

Gaeaman787 (talk) 01:03, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Pretty sure we should, at least in the tables, as they come and go so much now. As for pictures, we use what's free... - The Bushranger One ping only 01:16, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes we agreed to remove the sponsors (I assume we will remove them from older pages?) As for Casey Mears and Regan Smith, I haven't found anything from my Google Search. Someone else can look it they want, and the Logano/Kenseth issue, I guess we will just have to revert vandalism. I wish there were many more pictures available, but there isn't, unfortunately. The article probably needs to be created. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 01:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Question is why? Also, the race sponsors should stay for the actual races themselves. There's no overarching name that they are called without sponsorship. Since NACAR, F1, and other series don't have sponsors listed on season pages, should we tell IndyCar editors to do the same for consistency's sake?Gaeaman787 (talk) 02:13, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Totally agree on race sponsors remaining, of course, As for why, well, seeing as including sponsors stretched the Jeff Gordon results table past the confines a 1440x900 screen could contain... - The Bushranger One ping only 05:15, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Order of team chart

Hello, I just have a suggestion for the order of the team chart.

I would like to see it changed to be sorted by car numbers rather than team names to move it into line with other motorsports' team & driver charts (e.g. F1, the Nationwide Series, Truck Series, and V8 Supercars)

Also get rid of the Limited Schedule section and merge it with the Complete Schedule section.

Thanks,

V8dude2 (talk) 03:50, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

And just exactly why do you want it that way? We're not going to change something because you think it should be different. United States Man (talk) 04:45, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The trouble is that that would split up teams' cars - for instance, instead of one entry in the chart for Earnhardt Ganassi Racing, you'd now have two, one at "1" and one at "42"...F1 and IndyCar tend to have team cars "next to each other" number-wise. NASCAR doesn't. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:16, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
With the haphazard numbering scheme of American motorsports, it is best to sort by team before sorting by number. Perhaps the teams could be easily differentiated with either an alternating background colour, of a thicker border between entries.
Also, a separate limited schedule section is ideal as some cars are only entered for partial seasons or one-off races, even more so than in other sports. TheChrisD Rants•Edits 15:51, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Team Chart

I actually find it better to order team charts by car numbers rather than teams. I think that it would be easier for the reader to read.

This is the sort of order I would like to see the Sprint Cup chart in:

Complete Schedule:

Team Manufacturer No Race Driver Crew Chief
Earnhardt Ganassi Racing Chevrolet 1 Jamie McMurray Kevin Manion
42 Juan Pablo Montoya Chris Heroy
Penske Racing Dodge 2 Brad Keselowski Paul Wolfe
22 A.J. Allmendinger Todd Gordon
Sam Hornish, Jr.
Kenny Wallace
Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet 5 Kasey Kahne Kenny Francis
24 Jeff Gordon Alan Gustafson
48 Jimmie Johnson Chad Knaus
88 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. Steve Letarte
Richard Petty Motorsports Ford 9 Marcos Ambrose Todd Parrott
43 Aric Almirola Greg Erwin
Mike Ford

Limited Schedule:

Team Manufacturer No Race Driver Crew Chief Rounds
SS Motorsports Toyota 0 Mike Bliss TBA 1
RAB Racing Chevrolet 09 Kenny Wallace Scott Zipadelli 1
Roush Fenway Racing Ford 6 Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. Chad Norris 2
Robby Gordon Motorsports Dodge 7 Robby Gordon Samuel Stanley 6

Complete & Limited Schedules together:

Team Manufacturer No Race Driver Crew Chief Rounds
SS Motorsports Toyota 0 Mike Bliss TBA 1
RAB Racing Chevrolet 09 Kenny Wallace Scott Zipadelli 1
Earnhardt Ganassi Racing Chevrolet 1 Jamie McMurray Kevin Manion All
42 Juan Pablo Montoya Chris Heroy
Penske Racing Dodge 2 Brad Keselowski Paul Wolfe All
12 Sam Hornish, Jr. Chad Walter 2
22 A.J. Allmendinger Todd Gordon 17
Sam Hornish, Jr. 8
Kenny Wallace 1
Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet 5 Kasey Kahne Kenny Francis All
24 Jeff Gordon Alan Gustafson
48 Jimmie Johnson Chad Knaus
88 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. Steve Letarte
Roush Fenway Racing Ford 6 Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. Chad Norris 2
16 Greg Biffle Matt Puccia All
17 Matt Kenseth Jimmy Fennig
99 Carl Edwards Bob Osborne
Chad Norris
Robby Gordon Motorsports Dodge 7 Robby Gordon Samuel Stanley 6
Richard Petty Motorsports Ford 9 Marcos Ambrose Todd Parrott All
43 Aric Almirola Greg Erwin
Mike Ford

V8dude2 (talk) 03:11, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

That would only work if race numbers were better known than teams. If someone is more likely to search for a driver via race number, then you might have a case, but as race numbers tend to belong to teams and don't travel with drivers generally when they shift teams, I suspect this is not the case. --Falcadore (talk) 03:30, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Especially with teams doing shell games with their numbers like Front Row Motorsports did a couple years ago. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:52, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Can these tables be made sortable? Or does the multiple row high columns make it not work? Royalbroil 04:36, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Category for Death of Dale Earnhardt

I see that someone redirect his death to the 2001 Daytona 500 article without discussion so I reverted it. It was never discussed and I contend that his death was a major milestone in motorsports especially for the safety changes. Second, does his death article belong to Category:Filmed deaths in sports? I started a discussion on the article's talk page. Royalbroil 02:37, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Nascar Motorsport or NASCAR Motorsport?

In Brazil there is a team called "Nascar Motorsport" and is/was a team called "Comprafacil Nascar JF". What I can't really tell is if the 'Nascar' part should be upper cased in these situations or not. Some articles use lower case i.e 2012 Stock Car Brasil season, 2010 Copa Chevrolet Montana season, Juliano Moro and I found many references that use lower case but the quality of those sources are unclear, for example here, here and here. Any thoughts/knowledge/investigation welcome. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 18:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

It should be Nascar Motorsport, because the team name isn't referring to the actual sanctioning body NASCAR. Gaeaman787 (talk) 17:37, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree with it being Nascar Motorsport, since there isn't really much of a connection between the team and NASCAR, and per Gaeaman787, it isn't referring to the actual sanctioning body. ZappaOMati 20:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Images & such

I feel like I'm running a broken record, but we need images, especially in light of the fact that we're using old pictures on championship pages. I've checked the sites for the image policy, none of them have any good NASCAR photos -_-. Also, when should we start changing driver profiles to the 2013 season?Gaeaman787 (talk) 04:56, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Car generations

Right now the only car model we have isCar of Tomorrow, which really was the name for the fifth generation of cars. However, we are now including information about the sixth generation there as well. I was wondering if we should separate the two, and create articles for the first generation, second generation, and so on. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 03:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Are you talking about each generation of the CoT? That would be alot of stub articles I would imagine, so I would say keep them together. Gaeaman787 (talk) 17:39, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Understandable. What would be the article's name? NASCAR car? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 15:22, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Whitney & Humphrey Smith

So there's a debate as to the actual history of Whitney Motorsports, Humphrey Smith Motorsports, and Phil Parsons Racing. There was a lawsuit filed by an ex-crew member, and it states that HP was bought out by Phil Parsons and turned into Phil Parsons Racing. That would make Humphrey Smith Motorsports a completely new team (which I thought it was, not a evolution of MSRP)Gaeaman787 (talk) 20:31, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

  • IIRC, MSRP became HP Motorsports became PPR, which merged with Whitney. Humphrey Smith Motorsports is closely linked with TriStar Motorsports (and is, indeed, very much the spiritual successor, right down to having the same co-owner and using the same number 19, of TriStar's 1990s Cup team). - The Bushranger One ping only 17:56, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

HSM is a new team, its of course co-owned by Randy Humphrey and Mark Smith. So can admin make the necessary moves of page info?Gaeaman787 (talk) 21:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople

An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

The new NASCAR website

Unfortunately, the new design of the website made many links on articles (including some Good Articles) dead links. If they links weren't archived, they go to dead links. This problem begins with 2010 Kobalt Tools 500 (Phoenix) and continues up to the most recent race. Articles seem to redirect to their new place, but practices, qualifying links are dead. The new design of the results page includes practice and qualifying, but under the same link as the results, and you have to navigate your way to it from the link. Would this be okay for future race articles? Last, on some unarchived links, will they automatically archive to the old page or to the ERROR link? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 21:03, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

List of Daytona 500 winners

The race results summary in the Daytona 500 article is getting fairly large. Since there is already a List of Daytona 500 pole position winners, should we move the table back to the list and expand it from there (similar to List of Indianapolis 500 winners)? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 19:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. I'd also move the "Race winners records" section there too. DH85868993 (talk) 22:40, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Aggregated racing driver infoboxes

User:Frietjes has proposed making changes to the various series-specific racing driver infoboxes ({{Infobox F1 driver}}, {{Infobox Le Mans driver}}, {{Infobox WRC driver}}, etc) to allow them to be embedded inside {{Infobox racing driver}}, such that a driver's article may contain a single infobox covering all the different series in which they have particpated, rather than multiple infoboxes - see Andy Priaulx as an example. You are welcome to express any views you may have on the matter at Template_talk:Infobox_racing_driver#addition_of_modules. DH85868993 (talk) 01:36, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

2012 season articles needing work

Time for my annual post about incomplete season articles. The following series articles are little more than tables. Most of them don't even explain what they are, whether they are open wheel series, where they are held, who won the series! Apparently a series as important as DTM considers the point score system more important than the series champion.

The situation is also encouraging new editors to be likewise poor in seasonal coverage.

So while the majority of series are in hibernation perhaps we could spend a few days improving these articles.

Surely it would be more important and productive than arguing over whether Mercedes or Mercedes AMG is the correct terminiology for a constructor? Less minuatae!

No mention of series winner:
2012 Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge season
2012 Rolex Sports Car Series season

Series winner mentioned but no season review:

  • Indicates race summaries, but a lack of season review

2012 ARCA Racing Series season
2012 Stock Car Brasil season

Thank you for your time. --Falcadore (talk) 05:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Images nominated for deletion

A number of fair use NASCAR images have been nominated for deletion. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:45, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for letting us know! Royalbroil 04:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
TY .. I'll have a look in the next day or so. — Ched :  ?  06:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

NASCAR.com Reference Links

Now that NASCAR.com has changed their entire format, shouldn't all the NASCAR.com links be updated/removed/cleaned up as necessary? This includes driver profiles, articles, schedules, standings, etc.


(Anonymous) 75.177.141.0 (talk) 03:09, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

If they can be relocated to their current locations, they should be; if they can't though, they shouldn't be removed - see WP:DEADLINK. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Daytona 500

Could someone build something into {{Infobox Daytona 500}} so it links to the preceding and succeeding Daytona 500 articles? Ideally this would be based on the year parameter so all of the articles would update automatically, but it would also work to create parameters and update the articles manually. In addition, why does the documentation page for the template say not to fill in a year for races before 2008? Ryan Vesey 02:02, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

There is a template at the bottom of the page for moving to different Daytona 500 articles. The template said not to fill it in because it will end up to a red link since not all seasons are Sprint Cup. Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 15:24, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Gary Webb

Someone claiming to be affiliated with Gary Webb (racing driver) has posted in Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Gary_Webb_.28racing_driver.29 stating that certain information in the article is incorrect. I said I would bring it up here for him/her. Location (talk) 16:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

An interesting statistic...

Hits in February for Kyle Larson (racing driver). - The Bushranger One ping only 05:42, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Remember that web spiders can flood those statistics. Have fun! --NaBUru38 (talk) 00:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Portal:Sports is up for featured portal consideration

This is a courtesy message to inform the members of this project that I have nominated Portal:Sports for featured portal status. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Sports. The featured portal criteria are at Wikipedia:Featured portal criteria. Please feel free to weigh in. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

links to Grand National horse race

Hi, I'm an editor who works mainly on UK horse racing, and I've noticed that there are a lot of links pointing from NASCAR seasons to the British horse race, the Grand National - for example, 1950 NASCAR Grand National Series. I think its something to do with the seasons box at the top right of the articles, but I'm not sure how to change it and not sure what to repoint the link to. Would someone from the WP:NASCAR project mind taking a look at this and fixing it? Thanks, --Bcp67 (talk) 20:55, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that "series" field in Template:Motorsport season is set to automatically link to the article with the name of the motorsport series. "Grand National" was the name for the NASCAR's premiere series (Sprint Cup Series) from the 1950 until 1970. But you can't just change the name of the series! So I changed the series link to Grand National Series which works. Royalbroil 23:49, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
That's great, thank you for your help with that. --Bcp67 (talk) 04:50, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Table cell/row merging - STOP!

I am bringing this up here because it is an increasing problem in IndyCar race articles, but it also probably more prevalent in the NASCAR project. There seem to be some editors (most seem unregistered) who are turning race result tables (and other tables) totally upside-down by merging rows and cells. It makes the tables look terrible, hard to read, merges irrelevant data, and makes them very difficult to edit for future reasons. I have no idea what people are thinking do this. For instance, they are merging cells for a driver who wins a race back-to-back years, merging laps/miles, car makes that happened to win in . See this for an example. Some are much worse than this one.

I think it should be stopped immediately, and in fact reverted to un-merge all the cells. The reasoning is that each line represents a totally different event. What happened in one year is totally unrelated to the next. Each line should be complete and independent of its own information. The fact that a car make won two years in a row is merely coincidental to the makeup of the table. It also makes it difficult for the reader to see that they are separate events each year, and one might not be able to tell easily that 2-3-4 or more races are represented. While the skill of complex table syntax might be impressive, it has no place here. The only place where some cells could be mereged would be "twin" races, like Texas had

I've also posted this at the open wheel project, but it's probably worse in NASCAR right now. Doctorindy (talk) 18:03, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree with your statement, Doctorindy. Merging these cells are unnecessary and should not be done as it makes the tables more confusing and harder to read. As you said, "Each line should be complete and independent of its own information." -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 22:55, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
And I agreed at a discussion on this topic at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_American_Open_Wheel_Racing#Table_cell.2Frow_merging_-_STOP.21. So did Drdisque and DH85868993. Royalbroil 23:51, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Death of Dale Earnhardt

Hello, fellow NASCAR project members. I am considering a possible push for GA on Death of Dale Earnhardt. I am using Death of John Lennon as a model. Can anyone please give me advice on how to improve this? Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:50, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Very interesting selection - probably the 2nd most controversial article at WikiProject NASCAR. The article is a strong vandalism and POV magnet. It needs major work with citations and some of the sources used aren't GA quality. The sources better be very strong for all of the controversy sections - was he wearing a seatbelt improperly, huge photographs controversy, etc. I would consider if there's enough information for a new section on what happened to his fans - some stopped watching the sport while others probably became fans of Dale, Jr. Did his death lead or contribute to NASCAR's declining viewership? I hope you have a strong knowledge of NASCAR. Feel free to ask me any questions that you want. Royalbroil 04:31, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
OHHHH???? I may be willing to help with this. May and June are going to be very busy for me IRL, so I may be spotty as far as my work on wiki goes. (and heaven knows I could use the peace and quiet of NASCAR after some time helping with the "zOMG dramaz" boards.) Let me have a quick look, and I'll get back to this in the next day or two. — Ched :  ?  06:32, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Same here and the main article as well. He was my longtime favorite driver, RIP. Secret account 03:55, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

LOL funny

Had to share this with the group. (email link I got from a friend)

— Ched :  ?  06:29, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

New sports related IRC channel.

There is now an WP:IRC channel for collaboration between editors in various sports WikiProjects. It's located at #wikipedia-en-sports connect. Thanks Secret account 03:53, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Editing Reminder (DO NOT PREDICT)

With Matt Kenseth having won at Darlington, I noticed Kyle Busch's article having him stated as the winner of the 2013 Southern 500.

He was not.

Can whoever edits any NASCAR article not put a driver as the winner of a race before the race is over? You're personal predictions aren't really necessary.

That may have been a little harsh, so let me apologize for that.

Thank you, 75.177.141.0 (talk) 02:49, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I removed it. I presume you are referring to this. This is why I wait until the unofficial results come out to add in the top 10. ZappaOMati 02:53, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, the guy put back my removal of the sentence, but I saw that you took it away again. lol. Thanks for your help, 75.177.141.0 (talk) 04:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Name of All-Star race reports

I think NASCAR and Charlotte Motor Speedway stopped using roman numerals for the name of the race. Should we continue counting by roman numerals if they aren't using it, or change it to {{{year}}} NASCAR Sprint All-Star Race? -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 21:39, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I think they shouldn't have been like that to begin with. They should be called what they were called, or simply by the year. It's silly when they change the name of events retroactively, because it just isn't what it was called at the contemporary time. I think the reason they "re-named" the all-star events was to zap the word "Winston" from all references. I also hate when refer to a past race by its current sponsor name. (i.e, there's no such thing as the 1987 Aaron's 499). OK, rant over. Doctorindy (talk) 20:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
Agreed; the article should be at the name the event was called when it was run, full stop. - The Bushranger One ping only 22:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
Agreed, such as 1992 The Winston, 2007 NEXTEL All-Star Challenge, then 2013 NASCAR Sprint All-Star Race. -- Nascar1996(Talk • Contribs) 00:10, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
You have another nod in agreement! Royalbroil 04:37, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
Just to clarify, only the 2008 Sprint All-Star Race will have the roman numerals or would the 2009 race need them as well? 2009 had both the year and the roman numeral in it's logo. Images of logos: 2008 and 2009 --Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 15:28, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Rain forecasted at Road America

I have tickets for this Saturday's Nationwide race at Road America. I remember several decades ago when Dale Earnhardt and Rusty Wallace tested rain tires for Cup. But those tires sat around too long and the rubber went bad. Do they have any plans to race with rain tires in Nationwide? Some of the best racing that I've ever witnessed was in rain, especially the 2011 SCCA National Championship Runoffs at RA. I really enjoy watching the rainmeisters pass through the field. Also, is there anything else that someone would like to see a photograph? For example, several years ago I photographed detailed shots of a splitter. Royalbroil 23:54, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

I haven't heard, but it might be too early. I would wait until later in the week and look on Jayski and see if they do. Last year, Jayski reported that they did bring rain tires to the track. I guess if you could get a picture of a rain tire, it might be able to go on NASCAR rules and regulations under 'Technical requirements and inspection'. Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 00:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Jayski says that 1/2 of the tires will be rain tires! I'll bring my rain coat and umbrella. Rain brings interesting strategy - when do you change from rain tires to slicks, also some drivers are relatively quicker so you can watch slower qualifiers come up through the field. They're going to be bringing out drivers in group qualifying sessions like they did last year. Thanks! Royalbroil 01:40, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Hopefully you can get some pics there! I would've gone to Sonoma, but I'm kinda broke. ZappaOMati 01:55, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
My next chance to get any pictures of anything about NASCAR probably will be this fall at Charlotte Motor Speedway for the Sprint Cup event, but it is a night race, so I don't know. Have fun Royalbroil, just don't make us too jealous with your pictures when you come back. – Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 03:12, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! I hope to make everyone jealous. And last year I took a photo of all of the cars and almost all of the drivers. I'll go to the ARCA race earlier in the day and I hope to get a great shot of Chase Elliott plus some of the other up and comers. Royalbroil 03:58, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Besides Chase, who would probably be your main targets to get photos of? ZappaOMati 04:30, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
I will photograph everyone! I have my telephoto lens cleaned, packed, and ready to go. I'm leaving in a few hours. Forecast is rain this morning, clearing late morning to afternoon, possible rain late afternoon into evening. The Nationwide race starts at about 4:00 pm local time, 12:45 for the ARCA race. The Nationwide drivers usually do a parade lap on the back of a truck, which is where I can photograph them without a fence in the way. I bet that ARCA won't do a parade lap so I doubt I could get photos of the drivers - just their cars. Royalbroil 12:00, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Any pictures of Austin Dillon, Richard Childress, or anything related to a black 3 are always enjoyed. Also anything along the Mark Martin line is also appreciated. TY .. and hope you have a blast RB. — Ched :  ?  12:03, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Awesome. Can't wait to see the pix! (And hey, can you clear up something about the ARCA race? ARCA's race article and results claim that the caution came out on lap 36, it was a four-lap caution, and they restarted with three to go, which is impossible, and Dillon led on the restart but was punted by Elliott - but according to the result sheets the last lap Dillon led was lap 35. What really happened?) - The Bushranger One ping only 21:10, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm back home already! It was a fun day! I have a video of 2 drivers spinning out in turn 5 at around lap 45 (of 50). I should have photographs of all of the NASCAR drivers - hopefully only a few are blurring. I hate it when the trucks with the drivers would get real close together. I should have photographs of all of the cars in the Nationwide and ARCA field. I don't know the answer to your question about the ARCA race - I didn't watch in that level of detail. Sorry. Royalbroil 01:31, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Did you get any pictures of Allmendinger's celebration? Are you going to upload all the pictures to Flickr first? – Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 01:39, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I took a few photographs and a video of Allmendinger's celebrating but you can't see much. It was in front of me in turn 5. I sat on the hill between turn 5 and 6 - then I can see turn 14 in the distance.
I have 1650 photographs and about 550 of them where from the drivers on the trucks. Lucky if half of those 550 are in focus. It will take me a long time to process that many photographs. A few ones of interest - I photographed the ARCA trailer, 2 ARCA teams working on their cars after qualifying, and a course working waving the blue flag. The best and luckiest one was the MRN radio crew driving their announcers right past me on a golf cart as I was leaving. No models were working at the track but I did photograph a Chevy girl who was taking a photograph of a guy who has grown out his beard to look like the guys in Duck Dynasty. He was trying to win a lookalike contest, lol. Royalbroil 01:48, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to see the Chevy girl and Duck Dynasty lookalike photo. I don't think it'd have any relevance on any page here on Wikipedia (unless the girl could fit into race queen or even the guy appearing on Duck Dynasty). If he does look like one of the DD guys, well, close enough? ZappaOMati 01:52, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Happy you had fun Royal. Zappa, maybe as a Chevrolet advertisement? ;) – Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 02:04, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Commons is real liberal for uploading, as long as it has educational value. I could upload it to flickr otherwise. I cruised quickly through the driver photographs and the only driver where I have no useable photographs is Sam Hornish. I just photographed his back and side. Max Papis is the best like usual - he is so animated and they fans really responded to him! I forgot about an AWESOME photograph of the American flag with the jets doing a flyover in the background. WOW! I found a decent photo of Allmendinger's burnout. Any priority of drivers or cars to upload first? Royalbroil 02:16, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
It would've been funny if you got a picture of Papis slapping Billy Johnson. Nothing like a good 'ol Pap-Slap! ZappaOMati 02:29, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
The photos of Allmendinger's burnout and the model photographing are both up and can be found at this Commons category. Royalbroil 02:37, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
The picture of the chevrolet model. lol – Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 02:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Maybe the picture could work on Austin Dillon or Richard Childress Racing#Car No. 3 history? ZappaOMati 02:45, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Many photographs at Commons are not being used at one of the Wikipedias so it's no big deal. The rain that they predicted is moving in right now about 3 hours after the race got done. Royalbroil 03:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Nice work! Priority might be best to some of the drivers we don't have pictures for yet - Alex Bowman, Parker Kligerman, James Buescher(!), etc. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:41, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
It surprises me the most the Buescher doesn't have an image, especially considering his Truck title last year. ZappaOMati 04:17, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Also surprising is that after eight years there isn't a picture of David Gilliland yet. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:04, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
I added the pictures for all of the ones listed and more. I'm especially proud of the Buescher photo looking right at the camera from close range. It can be added to any of the truck series article. Royalbroil 00:32, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
I first thought that the cameraman was on the floor, until I saw Showtime's Homestead recap when I saw no one down there-but then again, i was mainly paying attention to Keselowski and his crew's champagne fight. ZappaOMati 19:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
It's probably a copyright violation. Oh, and it's drizzling in Sonoma. Weird.. – Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 19:22, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Well, it is predicted to rain tomorrow there, so I'm not entirely too surprised. ZappaOMati 19:27, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

This doesn't really have to do with this topic, but does anyone see the driver image errors when you search NASCAR on Yahoo? I mean, why is Kevin Harvick listed as Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch is listed as Carl Edwards, and Joey Logano being called Clint Bowyer? [9] ZappaOMati 02:11, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

This is what I see. – Nascar1996 (talk • cont) 02:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Looking through the pics, I can say that Kevin Harvick has really let himself go turn into Martin Truex, Jr. Maybe Harvick was actually the one in victory lane in Sonoma today. ZappaOMati 02:20, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Now it's fixed. Johnson's photo is back, but now Edwards is Biffle, Bowyer is Jr, Kahne is JPM, Jr is Gordon, you name it. ZappaOMati 03:53, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

And to top off the weekend, I saw a "short person" win his first USAC Midget show on Sunday night. What a weekend! I took off Monday for a well-earned recovery day. I'm glad to see so many posts and so many people still active / pumped up about this the Wikiproject! Royalbroil 15:37, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

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