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Further discussion on HLTV.org

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I am a long time member of the scene and this is widely considered the primary news source for Counter-Strike Esports and provides much of the content that other sites use, including on scene photography, reporting, and interviews. They are accepted as the official source of MVP awards and top player of the year awards as referenced by many other Esports websites. https://dotesports.com/counter-strike/news/faze-reach-no-1-spot-in-hltvs-csgo-world-rankings-for-first-time-since-2018 https://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/28828655/iem-katowice-shows-counter-strike-staying-power https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/esports/2022/02/25/s1mple-speech-iem-katowice/, the last discussions on HLTV seem to have agreed that it was reliable in it's niche but was never actually revisited and added back as an inconclusive source or reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Livitshiro (talk • contribs) 13:48, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

As someone who's actually in favor of using HLTV in some contexts, I think you're slightly misreading that discussion and what we require for sources to be considered reliable. I've now seen it removed from a number of articles across Wikipedia. I don't think there's much to add in a new discussion: HLTV probably leans generally unreliable at the moment, although is possibly trending upward as some of their writers become more established "experts" in the scene. I don't think there's anything to revisit for another year or two. Alyo (chat·edits) 15:00, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Can you link to the last discussion? I don't recall it ending with a consensus for reliability at all... Sergecross73 msg me 15:16, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Everyeye.it

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Active since 2001, has staff and policies. This request is part of a GAN review, so some quick comments would be greatly appreciated. IceWelder [✉] 12:19, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I would lean slightly against. The site strikes me as more of a fan/enthusiast site, albeit one which has become the biggest in their country.
  • Their "policies" page (look at the url https://www.everyeye.it/advertising/) has little to nothing that I would consider editorial standards, and is mostly about ads, affiliate links, receiving codes from game companies, and noting that for "modest corrections" they will not inform the reader.
  • Their staff page has no one with external journalism experience. The head guys seem to have been at this company for its entire 20 year existence, based on LinkedIn. Simone de Marzo, the only person with "editor" in his job title, lists himself as an "administrator" on LinkedIn and again has no other editorial experience.
  • I clicked through a number of the writer's bios and they're pretty much all of the "I really like video games" variety.
  • The recent stories they've shared on their Twitter account are mostly the generic clickbait-y you see all over the internet from sites that just repackage other content "for gamers".
On the other hand, they've been cited by Polygon, interviewed Tetsuya Nomura and a director on Horizon Forbidden West, and were mentioned here as a leading site within the Italian games media. I would think of it as a half-step below something like a Screen Rant, who put out similar content but have known journalists at least. So....maybe ok for reviews, but nothing else? Certainly wouldn't use for controversial/BLP statements. Curious to see what others think. Alyo (chat·edits) 14:51, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
I'd say plain unreliable. There's no reason to use this source for reviews when better reviews exist, and other sources linking to them posting rumors doesn't really support their credibility either. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 16:14, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Discussion of the The Mary Sue at RSN

See Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Mary_Sue. Could do with some input from people familiar with the source. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Developers' YouTube channels

This is something I wanted to bring for discussion before making any action. In the age of the internet, a good number of game developers have started YouTube channels where they talk about the games they worked on. I think the three big examples that come to mind are:

I'd assume these are acceptable as primary sources? The production insights they share definitely would be useful for relevant games' development sections. It might be a case-by-case basis thing, but I just wanted to start here to gauge further discussion. JOEBRO64 18:16, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd think it would be fine in the same way WP:PRIMARY is considered okay. Sergecross73 msg me 18:30, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Depends a little bit on who is running the channel. If it's from a developer, that's ok, but I'd be a bit reticent to allow single persons from developers. The fact these are on YouTube isn't what matters, it's more on whom is creating the info. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Games World of Puzzles

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Hi, I was thinking about adding the magazine Games World of Puzzles (ISSN 1074-4355, published by Kappa Publishing Group) to Template:Video game reviews but figure I'd check here first. Each issue has an "Electronic Game Reviews" section by Thomas L. McDonald (usually written by him, although sometimes others write reviews of individual games and then the section says it was edited by McDonald) consisting of half page reviews.

There are also occasional full articles about individual video games, for instance the April 2022 issue contains an article (pp. 34–37) discussing the playing mechanics of Baba is You.

I haven't really seen this used as a source before on Wikipedia but I think this might be useful in discussing the reception of some video games.

I see the April 2016 issue is on Archive.org (see p. 46 for the reviews); other issues might be available to editors online via Overdrive.

Umimmak (talk) 02:07, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Massively Overpowered (massivelyop.com)

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Massively Overpowered was launched from the staff of the now defunct Massively.com. They have been live since 2015, employ a staff with a policy and ethics statement.[1] All opinion columns appear to be labeled as such and their news articles link out to external sources when available. They would be a good source for MMO development and news, assuming they pass the sniff test from those here. Skipple ☎ 23:15, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Reliable. Old discussions: 1 2. They have a lot of the old staff from Massively so I would trust them on that basis alone. They have an ethics statement and good track record. I've used them in at least three GAs 1 2 3. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:30, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

RPG Codex

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The only discussion for this website was inconclusive. Two of its interviews are currently being used for the article for Fallout (video game). I've been asked at its FAC to bring up the source at this talk page. I've noticed that RPG Codex runs a user-generated forum and that its users have pseudonyms. I've also noticed that, similar to Destructoid, some of its users are staff members that write news postings and interviews, and some of the interviews have pictures of the interviewees. Is RPG Codex reliable, and if it isn't, could it be used as a primary source for its interviews at the very least? Lazman321 (talk) 15:32, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

@Lazman321: Unless you have reason to question its authenticity, interviews are considered usable as primary sources. I'm not seeing a lot to convince me that this site is reliable in general though.

AFJV and Gamesmarkt

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Find video game sources: "Gamesmarkt" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · WP Library · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo (Uses domain https://beta.gamesmarkt.de for news)

fr:Agence française pour le jeu vidéo is a French trade agency, which publishes news (owned by Chips Interactive, SARL). Gamesmarkt is a German trade magazine, which also publishes news (owned by de:Busch & Glatz). Both should be decently reliable, while such should probably not be used as sole sources for articles. IgelRM (talk) 17:03, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

  • GamesMarkt has been active in printed form since 2001 and has full-time staff. The website has been online since at least 2000 according to the Wayback Machine (although some articles date back even to 1997). From what I can tell, the track record is pretty good as well. I consider it reliable. IceWelder [✉] 15:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

HotHardware

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It doesn't look like we've discussed HotHardware before. They review PC/Mac, phone, and enterprise hardware, publish tech industry news, and do the occasional game review. Our article on HotHardware mentions that they've been cited by Engadget and that their hardware reviews have been noticed by Intel, AMD, and Dell (for what that's worth). I checked Google News and they do get cited somewhat, but it's mostly by other low-tier tech sites.

I'm also concerned with how much reviewing they're doing, exactly. The first article in their "PC Components" category is this review, which consists mostly of images from AMD—though they do get to some benchmarks on page 2 or 3. A review that's mostly copied from spec pages at AMD seems less than useful to me. We're also using two news reports (1 and 2) at Emulators of Nintendo Switch that appear to be rewritten press releases, complete with quotes from that developers that are mostly unattributed. If this is what they publish as reviews or news, I'm not sure how useful it is to us—and it seems like other tech sites agree, as they don't widely cite HotHardware, either. Thoughts? Woodroar (talk) 14:41, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Haha... that article is clearly created by a user associated with the site, even having "HH" at the end of their username. The Staff page is better than most we see, at least, with details about credentials, career, etc. -- ferret (talk) 15:14, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Dexerto

Hi @Pbrks:, The discussion reached a conclusion against depricating dexerto, while consensus was not established that it was an unreliable source. This is very much counter to what you wrote in your edit summary. Could you explain the revert? Thanks, Pabsoluterince (talk) 14:30, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

It does not counter my edit summary. The discussion in 2019 you reference was about whether or not to deprecate Dexerto, and the respondents argued as such. The closer made no decision as to its reliability, due to the lack of discussion in that area. Since then, there have been at least two discussions regarding Dexerto's reliability (1, 2); all respondents stated that it was unreliable. – Pbrks (t • c) 15:00, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
Fine and fair enough. But under no circumstances can you expect me to like it. Pabsoluterince (talk) 16:09, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Removing Dean Takahashi as a reliable source

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Sandbox (blockchain platform), which is primarily sourced to Dean Takahashi, motivated me to actually finally make this discussion. It seems like Dean has almost completely transitioned from journalist to crypto influencer, without any semblance of journalistic integrity anymore. A quick scroll down his recent contributions at VentureBeat shows a laundry list of crypto/metaverse shilling. I think this piece is most telling. When confronted with the fact that 75% of game journalists won't cover crypto, he chides them for not getting with the times and giving preferential coverage to the new big thing that'll get the clicks.

The other big red flag was this article defending Quantic Dream, which reads like a corporate mouthpiece. Here's a collection of responses from game journalists on the crunch/hostile workplace beat who objected to the way the article uncritically delivers corporate-approved talking points. Based on these examples, I have a hard time trusting any of Dean's work going forward. It reeks of paid influence. I don't think it extends to the rest of VentureBeat, as far as I know (e.g. Jeff Grubb worked there until recently, and he seems to have high integrity, as well as Mike Minotti). Axem Titanium (talk) 19:14, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

So, this would seem to be a first for us to explicit demote a specific author, at least at a quick glance. Are there any other precedents outside the project to look at? -- ferret (talk) 19:35, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
If I recall right, quite a while ago, that there was a proposal to outline reliability by author, which never gained consensus in support of it. I was personally one of the people against it, as I felt it was starting to get to a granularity that most people won't even know about, let alone enforce. Personally, I'm no fan of crypto/NFT/etc, but I have a hard time supporting your proposal without some more concrete connections. I'd be wary if he was employed or paid by Quantic, but it seems a bit much to take action merely for him being sympathetic to them. I don't like how Jason Schreier gives lower reviews to JRPGs like Xenoblade, but I don't think he should be labeled "unreliable for game reviews" or something to that effect. Sergecross73 msg me 20:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
I think that's a different situation. Reviewers can't be wrong about their own opinions; reliability doesn't factor into it. Takahashi appears to be trading on his prior reputation as a respected games journalist to write puff pieces about crypto projects. The language he uses in these articles is virtually identical to articles that regularly get disregarded in AFDs about crypto projects because it's all PR speak from people who have a stake in crypto doing well. I am trying to close this loophole where crypto grifters refbomb articles about their NFT projects using Takahashi's articles because they know he (was) respected as a journalist. They shouldn't count for notability. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
I hear you, but as long as it's just "he appears to be", it still seems premature to me. Sergecross73 msg me 21:23, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
  • Oppose Dean's work beyond crypto is generally straight forward, and just because he wrote that QD article in a light favoring the company, against popular opinion, there's no question he talked to Cage and others. We definitely shouldn't take offense because of reporting from a different POV. Crypto coverage is a whole messy area for a lot of sources, so I'm not seeing anything that standard editor discretion can be used to avoid. --Masem (t) 20:15, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
  • It's not merely that he was favoring the company, it's that he was masquerading corporate talking points as journalism and presenting it as neutral reporting. The objective facts about how the article was made (arranged by QD's PR, all statements had to be vetted by PR, no one-on-one private/confidential interviews with employees) make it not-journalism. It's a glorified press release with the thinnest veneer of journalism to make it appear more credible. I think we should have higher standards than that. It is bad precedent to allow captured media as a reliable source. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:19, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
  • A lot of the VG sourcing is often regurgitating PR material. I am not saying that they are all comparable to that QD article in VB but still, that's a dangerous line to go down. But as I recall, despite the length of that VB article, it was only used for a sentence or two in the QD Wiki article, because it was so obviously weighted to QD's side. That's where other sourcing and neutrality safeguards came into play. Masem (t) 22:21, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
  • I think there's a clear difference when it comes to sourcing for reports on hostile workplace allegations compared to regular product news for video games. The stakes are higher and I think the standards need to be commensurately higher. If Takahashi wants to stick to product news, then I'm fine holding him to the lower standard. But he chose to spend his credibility to "report" on something that demands more rigor. I would certainly never let that article get cited in crunch (video games), for example. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:01, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
  • Yeah while it's not great (and the Verge shouldn't give him a platform) I dunno about explicitly demoting an author. Any subject for notability is going to need multiple independent sources so I don't see this as an issue (The Sandbox AfD rightly closed as delete.) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 14:03, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Critical Hit

Currently listed under Unreliable. But only "2" discussions on it. 2nd of which was a query on it I posed back in 2017, but nobody answered. Would like to see if we can get a conclusion on it this time around? Soulbust (talk) 08:39, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Unreliable. No direct staff page, no editorial policy. Clicking on staff from an article does present bios, with such gems as Editor at Critical Hit. Inventor of the macho Swiss gym chocolate known as Testoblerone. That's...that's about it really.. Disclaimer page includes criticalhit.net does not represent or warrant the accuracy or reliability of the information. -- ferret (talk) 13:28, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, unreliable. Disclaimer page explicitly disavows accuracy. No editorial page or standards. Alyo (chat·edits) 14:09, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Gamenguide / Game N Guide

There's been no discussion on this site, but it's used in several articles (examples: IW (game engine), Jun Kazama, Wizet, Coin Master, The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct, Morrigan Aensland, Evo 2016, and also at least 1 good article: Ibuki (Street Fighter)). About Us section on the site looks a little short, but would like some clarification/thoughts on if others consider it reliable or not? Soulbust (talk) 04:13, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Unreliable. Here you will find articles written by gamers for gamers. We want you to make Gamenguide a place to freely share your thoughts and ideas on your favorite games and developers.. -- ferret (talk) 13:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
Unreliable. No indication of fact-checking or other basic editorial requirements. Alyo (chat·edits) 14:15, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Strana Igr/Gameland/Страна игр (take 2)

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I inquired about adding this as a reliable source last year, but never got a response. Would like to try again.

On the page for reliable sources, there seems to be only three Russian reliable sources out of hundreds. Figured that I'd pitch in the magazine Strana Igr as a reliable source, which has had its own page since December 2013. Its name in Russian is Страна игр while the translation to English is Gameland. There's a decent amount of the magazine scanned on The Internet Archive and numerous websites have cited it upon a quick Google search. It was in circulation from January 1996 to November 2013; thus, 17 years worth of content. They rated games by adding points in 0.5 increments, up to 10 total. Each review also had an author listed. Xanarki (talk) 23:55, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Reliable. (I must have missed that proposal.) It's on par with most English-language magazines in its purpose. It's a Russo-sphere magazine, so found in Russia but also nearby countries. Archives here. Incomplete reference library here. It's a bit worse than Igromania, but basically the same. My general impression is very similar to that of this proposal of Russian magazines. I might do as bit more research of Russian sources for this later. If nothing else, it's important because some Russian-only games, especially early adventure games, were only ever covered by Russian sources and we have way too few. —  HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 09:52, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Two sources for Psychonauts 2

Hoping to get some input on a couple of sources that I intend to use for a rewrite of the Psychonauts 2 article. These haven't received clearance as RS, but that's not entirely my goal. These come straight from the developers' mouths, which should be totally OK, but I'd like something that I can point to in case this is broached during the assessment processes.

How Psychonauts 2 revamped its roots

Published on the official Unreal Engine website, includes commentary from the developers.[2]

Behind the Sound of Psychonauts 2

Published on audiokinetic.com blog site, written entirely by Psychonauts developers.[3]

All input is appreciated. — CR4ZE (T • C) 10:21, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

They're just primary sources, treat as such. -- ferret (talk) 13:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
WP:PRIMARY, for the record. Sergecross73 msg me 14:57, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, folks. — CR4ZE (T • C) 01:35, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

GamerBraves

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Well, I believe this site is dubious. Their about page is very short and explicitly state they're a passion site. I've found no public review policies and yet the site is cited on 42 pages. It's owned by Digital Braves if that adds something. ~~ lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 19:51, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Zero indication of reliability. That applies to the entire group, as far as I'm concerned. Half the authors are pseudonyms, and most have bios like "Loves video games! So passionate!" Over the last couple days, what appears to be only four editors (only one with a name) have written dozens of churnalism articles. -- ferret (talk) 21:02, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Retronauts

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Previous discussion here, where Namcokid47 and Abryn supported adding this to our list of reliable sources. I can verify that the site is owned and edited by Jeremy Parish, who is a reliable journalist from his time as executive editor at IGN.

There are quite a few contributors who write at other reliable sources. Jared Petty is another IGN alumnus. Nadia Oxford is a veteran of IGN, Rock Paper Shotgun, and USGamer. Stuart Gipp writes at Nintendo Life. I'm not sure if we need to add any conditions to how we use this as a source, but safe to say that many parts of it are quite good. Shooterwalker (talk) 01:30, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

  • Reliable per evidence found by Shooterwalker. Parish is a known figure in the game press who stakes his reputation on his encyclopedic knowledge of retro games. He should be considered a domain expert, by rights. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:03, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Trusted Reviews

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I'd like to request that Trusted Reviews be added to Template:Video game reviews. Helper201 (talk) 17:06, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

@Helper201, please propose this at Template talk:Video game reviews instead. Thanks, DecafPotato (talk) 02:48, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
To editor DecafPotato: please see Template talk:Video game reviews#Edit request 26 October 2022 and the [edit notice] for that page, which indicates the need to discuss it here on the project talk page. Don't we need to get Trusted Reviews added to WP:VG/S before adding it to the template? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 02:58, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Ah, yes we would. Sorry, the question didn't make that clear, and seemingly just proposed the edit to the template, and I didn't bother to check. My bad! DecafPotato (talk) 03:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
No problemo – pales against some of the bloopers I've made over the years. Thank you so much for the clarification! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 03:07, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

PC Magazine

Why is PCMag listed as an unreliable source? — VORTEX3427 (Talk!) 14:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

It is actually listed as "other reliable", i.e. "reliable but we haven't categorized it yet". IceWelder [✉] 14:55, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Il Videogioco

Views on the reliability of reviews on this Italian website? It appears to have an editorial team so is potentially a WP:NEWSORG pass.

This is important in the context of this AFD. FOARP (talk) 12:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Having a staff is good, and it seems like they're actually paid and they don't just take submissions. That said, I'd want to see evidence of significant original reporting or being quoted and credited by other reputable sources to establish a general level of trust, and I don't see that. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:00, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I did some quick searching. These aren't exactly listed reliable sources, but there's merit to both. I found that their interview with a licensing manager was reported by a simulation website, and that the developers of this game on Steam mentioned them. A few developers and insiders have, on occasion, tagged or re-tweeted them on Twitter as well. And it seems they've been in existence since 2010 or 2011. I wouldn't mind tagging this one as reliable. Xanarki (talk) 19:59, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Substack

See Substack. It hasn't come up much in the video game content area (yet?) but I see it come up a lot in the internet in general, so I thought I'd check.

If I'm understanding correctly, it's largely a platform for self-publishing, so we should probably handle it like WP:YOUTUBE (as in, generally don't use it.) But I figured I'd check here in case I didn't fully understand the platform. Sergecross73 msg me 21:06, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Generally it'd all be WP:SELFPUB. There are some that are more akin to Medium-style hosted journalism outfits than just self-published blogs; I'd still say SELFPUB applies in those cases too, because if you're reputable enough you'd just have your own site. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 21:25, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Substack is a platform, not a publication. There's no single "Substack reputation" to even have a reliability discussion about. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:10, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Niche Gamer

In the vein of Sergecross's previous thread about this site, I just wanted to bring up that they've been caught plagiarizing from Gematsu again. Source. No action items, since it's already marked as unreliable. Just wanted this to be preserved for the record here. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:17, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

I saw that too, and agree. It's good to note and document in case anyone pushes for it to be a RS in the future. Sergecross73 msg me 03:19, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Might as well add too that the "NicheGamer Staff" articles are thinly veiled sponsored ads without any disclosure. Some of the articles too have random links to things such as links to game hacking websites in the bodies of the article, with a blurb at the bottom that buying items through such links "supports the site".--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Ah, so the real perpetrators who violated ethics in game journalism were the GGers. Go figure! Axem Titanium (talk) 16:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
I still like a lot of what we did during GG as far as the ethics/FCC end of things, but propelling these guys was indeed a huge mistake. That said probably best we don't divert the discussion further here.-- Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:00, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, this is another reason why this isn't reliable. It can't hurt to mark the discussion here as further evidence, in case it comes up again. Shooterwalker (talk) 22:23, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

LeveL

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The magazine LeveL, started in 1995, seems like a standard reliable source. I'm surprised it isn't listed yet. Apparently it's the Czech Republic's most popular video gaming magazine, and still seems to be active. Off-shoots were created in Turkey and Romania, and both of them had similar content, but are no longer in circulation. Xanarki (talk) 02:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

I'd say it's reliable. It's a good sign that they have editorial staff. We can always discuss again if they make a serious error that shows a lack of fact-checking. Shooterwalker (talk) 22:25, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Switch Player

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I've been curious about the reliability of this site. It was covered in an inconclusive previous discussion and I've seen a few freelance posts so not sure if reliable. Thoughts anyone? ‡ The Night Watch ω (talk) 22:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

At this point, I'd say reliable. This is actually the third time they've been brought up. The very first time contained an e-mail from the founder, and his explanation seemed okay to me. In short, they're listed on MetaCritic (with hundreds of reviews), has a consistent print magazine that's been circulating for a few years, devs typically sends them review code, and has staff member(s) that previously worked at other reliable sources. Indeed, there is a lack of staff info or editorial policy on the website, but their print magazine shows a small list of staff. I believe that Switch Player was previously deemed unreliable/inconclusive because it resembled a Nintendo-curated blog that wouldn't have lasted long. But now that we're in 2022, it looks like they've outgrown that assumption. FYI I'm basing my opinion on what I discovered today, as I'm not a follower of Nintendo anymore and this is my first time hearing about this source. Xanarki (talk) 16:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Time Extension

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Recently found out that the Eurogamer people now have a retro gaming website. Think its fair to think its reliable. GamerPro64 18:30, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Same publisher as existing RSes Nintendo Life and Push Square (Hookshot Media), so it should fit right in. IceWelder [✉] 19:20, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Reliable: Strong editorial policy, same publisher and general style as existing RSes. DecafPotato (talk) 01:25, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Reliable - I keep coming across their work - both at WP:VG and in my own research, and I'm very impressed with their output. Very detailed, well researched stuff. I believe they check all our boxes for being used. Sergecross73 msg me 15:59, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Serebii

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Serebii has been the definitive Pokémon news site for years, and while previous discussions ruled it unreliable, there was a big factor that was left untouched. Even just in the past WEEK, many reliable sources at WP:VG/RS have used it to source central claims in articles. Due to this, I believe Serebii passes WP:USEBYOTHERS with flying colors, making it reliable by most metrics. DecafPotato (talk) 02:15, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Serebii is a weird situation. It is a comprehensive Pokémon database that happens to have a news section. If we can consider the in-universe/mechanical information presented in Serebii as reliable, then that would be somewhat useful, but not very meaningful. By its very nature, it wouldn't have much use in establishing notability, I believe. As for the news section, we're lacking bylines and these aren't typical/traditional articles. I don't really know what to do with this, do we have a similar publication as a reliable source anywhere else? I do appreciate having a different type of source available to us, but I worry that something this closely tied to a specific fan culture and media franchise would not be good for our general-purpose encyclopedia. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 09:30, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
Unreliable While use by others can indicate reliability, there are many sites that are frequently quoted and yet still treated as unreliable or situational by Wikipedia. Serebii has no editorial policy, no staff page, no information at ALL about how their news is written. We don't know how many people are writing behind the account, there is only a single email webform for contact. The evidence of use by others is interesting as well. While Nintendolife is of course churnalisming every bit of Pokemon news, the other sources are more muted. One Eurogamer source makes no mention at all. The Polygon source notes that Serebii reported something, but that they had since confirmed it themselves, and that another site had reported it a week prior to Serebii. Polygon represents the hallmark of an RS here. Yes, Serebii is reporting news and that news is often or nearly always correct. But Polygon as a trusted source has verified the information and confirmed it for us, while Serebii remains an anonymous faceless fan site. -- ferret (talk) 14:28, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
@Ferret – Nintendo Life, GamesRadar+, Dot Esports, Kotaku, VG247, Eurogamer, and Pocket Gamer are ALL listed as "generally reliable" at WP:VG/RS, and have ALL cited Serebii. If you don't think Nintendo Life, for example, should be used here, that's fine, there are plenty of others.
The Polygon source notes that Serebii reported something, but that they had since confirmed it themselves, and that another site had reported it a week prior to Serebii
A source not reporting something first does not make it unreliable at all. By that definition, Polygon itself would be unreliable here, as they reported something late. The point is that they took the information from Serebii. But if you argue that that situation does not count because they confirmed it elsewhere before citing it, I can get behind that. That's what many do with Wikipedia. So I ask you to turn to all places where that wasn't the case. And besides, this shows that Polygon, at the very least, considers it reliable, even if they did not directly and exclusively cite them in this article. DecafPotato (talk) 01:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
The key factor is not speed, but trustworthiness. Reporting fast and wrong is worse than no reporting at all. Polygon took the time to confirm reports (i.e. do real journalism) instead of publishing based on rumors. The fact that so many outlets rushed to publish without doing due diligence to independently confirm a rumor is a mark against them, not in favor of Serebii. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:00, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Can I have an example of Serebii publishing an unconfirmed rumor, or hell–even any significantly incorrect information? Note: bolded not for emphasis, but because I'd like this point respoded to above all others Is what you and Ferret are arguing is that essentially, is that all sources provided above are not reliable? If so, that seems to be a heavy accusation to assume – that all of them would not do basic diligence to confirm information. And besides, Polygon independently confirming something that Serebii stated is a point in favor of Serebii's reliability, just as all the other sources citing them are points in favor of their reliability. DecafPotato (talk) 02:45, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm not going to reply to this as it contains an asinine premise that "all these sources are also unreliable". This is arguing in bad faith. -- ferret (talk) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
What?? I was asking for clarification because it seemed that your argument may be that the sources I gave can not be used as reliable because they did not fact-check the information. If I was incorrect—which it seems I was—please just correct me, and please remember to assume good faith, or at least give rationale to an assumption of bad faith debate. DecafPotato (talk) 04:15, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Unreliable - it's a fansite. USEBYOTHERS isn't an end-all, be-all. Reliable sources also cite Neogaf, Resetera, and random Twitter users all the time too, but that doesn't mean it's valid for us to cite them directly. Sergecross73 msg me 14:33, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
    @Sergecross73 – NeoGAF, ResetEra, and Twitter user-generated, anonymous forums. I do not see a single user on any of the sites that has been cited to the degree Serebii has. WP:RS states: "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications". While a media franchise is a angle of this that hasn't really been explored, Joe Merrick (Serebii's webmaster and primary editor) has been published by reliable, independent publications (see above) as a source, and he/Serebii is certainly an established expert, hell, Kotaku, a video games reliable source, introduced them as "Pokémon experts", while using a source taken from them in an article. DecafPotato (talk) 01:29, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
    Is there are argument for their credentials beyond "they're really hardcore Pokemon fans"? If not then you really need to go back to the drawing board. Or at least re-evaluate your understanding on how Wikipedia identifies reliable sources. Sergecross73 msg me 03:56, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
    Yes: the argument is that they are frequently cited by other, reliable publications, have not been known to publish incorrect, unreliable, or misleading information, are not a user-generated source, in addition to being "an established subject-matter expert", or however that translates to this medium. DecafPotato (talk) 04:20, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
    That's not enough. What are the editorial policies? Editorial oversight? Professional credentials of writers? Sergecross73 msg me 04:48, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
    I'll look into that in a bit; we've reached the point in which I don't want to check out their website to avoid getting spoiled on Scarlet and Violet, legitimately sorry about that one. 🙃 DecafPotato (talk) 04:53, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
    Yeah, don't let this discussion spoil a game for you, I don't believe this is on track to garner support anyways. Take a look at WP:VG/S. There is virtually no history or precedent for a single game series websites being classified as an RS. Sergecross73 msg me 04:59, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
  • I agree with previous comments but I'll also add that it's not really useful for us - Pokémon is a big enough series that anything Serebii reports on that isn't trivia or leaks is going to be reported on by others as well. AlexandraIDV 14:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
    @Alexandra IDV – I do agree with this, however I do not think that is a good reason to consider the site unreliable; just because it likely won't be that useful does not mean it isn't reliable. DecafPotato (talk) 01:20, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
    • I'm not saying this is a reason why it is unreliable, just that it doesn't really affect people writing about Pokémon on WP that it's not.--AlexandraIDV 10:32, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
  • Month-late comment: I know this is VERY late, but I just found out that the site's webmaster, Joe Merrick, is a [staff writer for VGRS Nintendo Life] (no wonder NLife cites Serebii so much...lol) DecafPotato (talk) 06:14, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Automaton Media

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What's the reliability of this Japanese video game website? I saw an article from the source in a draft about a Scott the Woz video, and the article seems to be a decent secondary source explaining the criticism one of Scott the Woz's retrospectives received. While I don't think this one source alone would be enough to prove notability for the video (although it's a good start), does Automaton Media in general have potential to be a reliable source? I did identify an editorial team in their "About" section if that helps. In terms of use by other sources, I also found IGN, GamesRadar and Nintendo Life articles that cited info from Automaton as well. So... maybe list as "other reliable"? PantheonRadiance (talk) 06:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: Also found some VGC articles referencing the outlet. So once again... "other reliable"? PantheonRadiance (talk) 06:25, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Automaton Media is a news website under Active Gaming Media, but its hiring criteria is really low, which don't require any journalism background. Its Editor-in-chief Kawase Ayuo just being this position within a year of graduating from University, although Ayuo wrote that their aim is "being honest and truthful". So47009 (talk) 07:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

USgamer

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Uhh, this isn't really an "is this site reliable", because it obviously is, more of an "is this site existent". A Wayback Machine snapshot from two days ago brings you to the site, and so did just navigating to it a few hours ago if memory serves, but going to the site now returns a "USgamer is sadly no longer online
The best of the USgamer team’s content has been archived on VG247." Is this just me? If not, this may need some recategorization, and this is probably the best place in the WikiProject to discuss this? DecafPotato (talk) 06:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Note that certain articles are hosted on VG247 word-for-word, but the phrasing "the best of the USgamer team's content" implies that it isn't all, so be on the lookout for dead USgamer links. DecafPotato (talk) 06:21, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
  • It's not just you; the site ceased publication after its staff was laid off in December 2020, and the site went offline this week. And, unfortunately, you're right—not all of the content was migrated. The list was changed in January to reflect this, so there's not really anything else to be done here (unless we split it from Eurogamer and move it to "Defunct", but I don't see the point). I'd recommend opening a discussion to WT:VG if you're concerned about link rot. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 07:18, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
  • According to a prior discussion, it appears that every page on the site has been archived at least once on Archive.org. Sources do not lose their reliability when they shut down (for reasons other than some credibility scandal, which is not the case here) so it's perfectly fine to continue citing them. You can submit a bot request to add archivelinks to all existing references, or just fix them as you come across them. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:20, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

One Esports

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I've seen this source be used quite a bit on a handful of new articles. They have an About Us page that contains their mission and staff. I don't know how long they've been around, but their article quality seems overall fine. They are also a subsidiary of Group ONE Holdings, which also runs ONE FC. I don't know how I feel overall, maybe leaning slightly towards reliable. Hoping to get some opinions on this one. – Pbrks (t • c) 16:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Games.cz

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Part of Tiscali Media; sister site to Tiscali.cz [cs] and a dozen others in the same network. Has paid staff and its editor-in-chief has journalistic experience. I also spot-checked some writers; they all show credentials on their LinkedIn profiles, even those listed as "external collaborators". IceWelder [✉] 10:14, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

The best selling consoles of all time

The sales numbers For the Nintendo switch are incorrect. In the article it's said to be this amount of total sales for the Nintendo switch 114.33 million. But in reality it is already over 120 million units sold. Meeting that the switch has surpassed the lifetime sales of both the PlayStation 4 and the gameboy line. The next hurdle in the path of Nintendo switch on becoming The best selling console of all time this is the DS the sold over 154 million units in its lifetime. Playstendocolimited (talk) 15:42, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

So, this talk page is actually for discussing whether or not sources are reliable in a general sense. For a question like this, you'd probably want to ask it at Talk:List of best-selling game consoles
Since I'm a primary person fielding questions there too, I'll also cut to the chase and mention that I believe the 120+ mil figure is likely, but still unofficial, and we usually wait to update only when we have official figures. Feel free to present sources at that talk page if you think I'm mistaken though. Sergecross73 msg me 16:10, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

GamesHub

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Is GamesHub reliable? They seem to be a fairly normal news source with staff that write and edit (albeit not much). They've interviewed people and get review codes to review things. So I'd say so, but want thoughts. DecafPotato (talk) 17:50, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Been wondering this too. I recently cited an article from them on The Creative Gene, although the piece was written from indie game developer Naphtali Faulkner, the person who developed Umurangi Generation and not an actual staff member of the site. As I'm planning on getting that article to GA status soon, I could also use some consensus. I found that managing editor Edmond Tran wrote for GameSpot for 13 years, and their reviews editor Thuy On also wrote for papers such as The Guardian and Sydney Morning Herald. So it looks like they do have editorial expertise. Perhaps reliable? PantheonRadiance (talk) 03:00, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Strategy Gamer

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Part of Wargamer in 2017 [4]. Part of Network N in 2019 [5]. Redirected to PCGamesN website in 2020 [6]. Has a review policy. Archived homepage: [7] Mika1h (talk) 18:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

GMR

I could've sworn GMR was a reliable source, but I don't see them listed. is GMR a reliable source?published by Ziff-Davis as part of the 1Up.com Network. And the entire magazine catalog is in archive.org.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 00:47, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Yup, it should be. Similar to other similar mags of the time period like EGM, Ultragameplayers, Next-Gen, etc. Andre🚐 02:11, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Parade

[Parade], formerly a magazine and now a website. During its eighty-year lifespan as a magazine, it was distributed in over seven hundred newspapers across the USA, according to its Wikipedia page. Want to check if it can be used as a reliable source for pages, as so far it's only citations on here are for images. Anonymouseditor2k19 (talk) 11:52, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

My recollection of at least the print version is Parade was tabloid-adjacent in terms of tone and coverage (lots of celebrity stuff.) I wouldn't use it unless there were no better sources. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 12:01, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
I don't think their focus on pop-culture stuff is a problem if it's being cited for that stuff specifically. The real question is whether it's a RS for that. Phediuk (talk) 15:10, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Did they cover video games much? Sergecross73 msg me 12:10, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
A quick Google search turns up a fair few gaming-related articles. Phediuk (talk) 15:30, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Interesting. Well, as a long-running hard copy magazine publication, they probably meet the RS standards. I'd treat them how we generally treat publications that are not video game-centric - it's usable, but ignore it if it prints a mainstream misconception that's easy disproven by more video game-centric websites. (Ignore if they say something like "There were only 3 Bubsy games released in the 1990s" or "Sonic 2 was released in 1992" type stuff.) Sergecross73 msg me 15:47, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Here is an example [8] I'd say it looks reliable enough. Parade is more like a magazine than a tabloid. It does have gossip columns and that sort of thing, but I'd compare it to a newsstand magazine not unlike Us Weekly or Vanity Fair etc. Probably fine for establishing notability for a video game, not going to work for controversial statements or statements contradicted by other sources as Sergecross73 says Andre🚐 02:15, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Euronics Deutschland trend blog

So the German wing of Euronics has a trend blog with articles that cover various forms of electronics and software. Right now, I'm going to propose only the [games section] of the blog to see if it meets the standards for reliability. Euronics itself is already a well-established retailer to the point of having a page on Wikipedia, so all that's left is to see if they can be used as a reliable source for articles. Anonymouseditor2k19 (talk) 22:54, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Seven foreign-language sources and one English source

Here I present seven game sources in foreign languages, plus one English-language source, to consider adding to the list:

Consoles +

Consoles + was a French magazine published from 1991 to 2012. Consider this magazine's ownership history, which includes EMAP and Future, and the fact that it was founded by Éditions Mondiales, the same publisher as Tilt.

Excalibur

Excalibur was a Czech magazine founded by Martin Ludvík. Some of its editors would later go on to write for GameStar. It survives as a website since 2016, but not without the catch that "All news is written by players who are happy to share new information, videos, tips, reviews and much more." I would hesitate to accept anything coming out of that source since its 2016 revival.

LeveL

LeveL is another magazine by Martin Ludvík, having featured some staff from Excalibur. From soon after its launch until 2013, it was published by Vogel Publishing (later Vogel Burma Communications), the same publisher behind the Czech version of Chip. Some of its current editors have appeared on reputable sources such as Games.cz [cz].

As for the magazine since 2013, it's been owned by then a relatively obscure publishing house called Naked Dog, founded by Ondřej Průša, who apparently was the magazine's chief editor. The editor makeup at the time of the reboot completely comprised the Games.cz team, as well as several LeveL veteran columnists. Tiscali Media, the publisher of Games.cz, would share the same address as the magazine and be in charge of the latter's advertising sales. FreeMediaKid$ 15:48, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
  • Reliable. I initially proposed adding it here but it only got one response (who also agreed that it was reliable). It has a long history behind it, and surprisingly, still seems to be active. Xanarki (talk) 16:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Score

Score is yet another magazine by Martin Ludvík that has had former staff from Excalibur. Like that magazine, some Score editors left for GameStar. One of its current editors has prior experience on Eurogamer.

The publishing house, Art Consulting, merged into Omega Publishing Group in 2000. Omega owned licenses to several Future plc publications, and in the mid-2000s also attempted to purchase one for Play, which Future declined. A company connected to Omega, called Euromedia Publishing, was established for that purpose. FreeMediaKid$ 15:54, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Regarding its early history, Doupě.cz provides insight into the magazine's influence and legacy, including once having had the majority (or at least a comfortable plurality) of the share in Czech game journalism, other game magazines being compared to its style, and the fact that most journalists for other Czech game magazines have written for Score. However, there is a word of caution. Although it was a fairly common practice for Art Consulting to pirate games when its (and the country's for that matter) only game importer, Vision, could not supply it copies of the games being reviewed, more serious in ways that may hinder the source's usefulness was when the magazine reviewed copies of dubious origin before the games were officially released or available to the press, without any disclosure, namely at the turn of the century. For two examples, it caught Activision's attention that it reviewed Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace before its release, for which the company said that the game then remained unavailable to the press, and the Czech branch of Microsoft said that only one publication was authorized to review Age of Empires II before its launch. Score was not it, but it reviewed it anyway. So, yes, a word of caution for anyone considering this source for old games. FreeMediaKid$ 15:48, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Micromanía

Micromanía is a longstanding Spanish magazine, founded by Hobby Press. It has changed ownerships, being passed to Axel Springer Spain and Blue Ocean Publishing, the latter its current owner. Some of these editors have also written for HobbyConsolas, one has contributed to IGN Spain, and another left to become the chief reporter of the tech section of El Mundo.

Hobby Press was founded in 1981 by José Ignacio Gómez-Centurión (1948 – 2003), who served as the company's CEO before selling it to Axel Springer in 1998. He was also Micromanía's first editor-in-chief. Previously, Gómez-Centurión was part of Televisión Española from 1975 until the end of the decade, became an editor for El País in 1976, the editor-in-chief for Opinión in 1977, and the deputy editor for Gaceta Ilustrada [es] in 1978. According to El País, "Hobby Press was a benchmark in the Spanish publishing world of the eighties, becoming a leader in entertainment and computing. From this group, [Gómez-Centurión] promoted magazines such as Gigantes, Estrellas del Baloncesto, RC Model, Armas, PCmanía, Micromanía, Nintendo Acción, Hot Shareware and Netmanía, among others." Some further relevant information can be found on El Confidencial. FreeMediaKid$ 08:26, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Strana Igr

Strana Igr was a Russian magazine. Some of its writers also wrote for Igromania. Near the end of the magazine's life cycle, its company founded and controlled the content on IGN Russia, with former staff.

Its publisher's, Gameland's, portfolio includes two licensed publications: PlayStation: The Official Magazine, its second magazine, and Computer Gaming World. In 2008, Gameland acquired Mediasign, which published the Russian editions of PC Gamer and Total Film. FreeMediaKid$ 08:31, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
  • Reliable as per earlier proposal here. I'll just copy what I said there: It's on par with most English-language magazines in its purpose. It's a Russo-sphere magazine, so found in Russia but also nearby countries. Archives here. Incomplete reference library here. It's a bit worse than Igromania, but basically the same. My general impression is very similar to that of this proposal of Russian magazines. I might do as bit more research of Russian sources for this later. If nothing else, it's important because some Russian-only games, especially early adventure games, were only ever covered by Russian sources and we have way too few. —  HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 12:25, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
  • Reliable. Another one I proposed earlier (he already linked it). Due to the lack of Russian sources, this one should've been one of the first to get in, since it was one of the more longer-running mags. Xanarki (talk) 16:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)


Super GamePower

Super GamePower was a Brazilian magazine spanning from 1994 to 2009. Early in its history, it was bought by IDG. Note that it is used to list games in the article List of video games considered the best.

New Age Gaming

Lastly, New Age Gaming (now NAG) is the magazine that filled the void in the South African gaming market. Its ethics page is somewhat informal, but acceptible, though I hesisate to decide whether to accept its score system when other scoring methods like IGN's exist. Its page for writing for NAG is not too amiss either. Some of its writers have written for IGN. Indeed, in 2013, Ziff Davis and the magazine's publishing house partnered to establish IGN Africa. FreeMediaKid$ 09:00, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

General comments

  • General support. As before for these non-English magazines, they are in every way similar to their Western English or something like Japanese counterparts, just not known outside their countries. But they are most likely reliable unless someone brings up reliability issues. I believe some of these were brought up some of these before too, but there was never enough comments for consensus. It's really hard to review them. A lot of these are in WP:VG/RL. —  HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 12:25, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
  • It's hard to give too much of an endorsement with publications I've never heard of in languages I can't read, but generally speaking, if there were professional, hard-copy magazine publishing publications, with an actual editorial/writing team, then they probably generally meet our standards for use. Skimming through, I don't believe I've seen anyone comment anything contrary to that either. Sergecross73 msg me 17:07, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
  • I already commented on two specific sources, but skimming through all of these, I think it's safe to add them all as reliable. The only odd one is Excalibur. I couldn't find their new website, but their older printed magazine is fine to include imo. Xanarki (talk) 16:31, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
  • Support The nominator's arguments are very convincing. Although Excalibur should be added to conditional with a warning to not use website content, only printed content. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:36, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Time Extension

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Can we get this site listed as reliable source soon? There's people removing this source from articles because it's not listed here. It's part of Hookshot Media, same network that hosts other current RS sites: Nintendo Life, Push Square, Pure Xbox. Editor-in-chef is Damien McFerran who has also written for Eurogamer, Retro Gamer, and Games TM. The other writer is Jack Yarwood who has written for Eurogamer, Gamasutra/Game Developer, Polygon, PCGamesN. Mika1h (talk) 21:25, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

We discussed it like a few months back and there was a general support to classify it as reliable. I think we just never got around to adding it. Sergecross73 msg me 21:28, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Link discussion please. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:39, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources/Archive 28#Time Extension Sergecross73 msg me 18:55, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

glitched.online

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Is this source reliable? They claim to be the biggest gaming site in South Africa, but I can't find much about them.

I think, for now, they might be unreliable, but it could change. They've only been online for about 2 or 3 years and they apparently only have 3 members on their entire staff/editorial team. Their articles are well-written and they seem to be partnered with an entity known as Nexus Popular Culture (I wasn't able to access their website at nexushub.co.za), but I couldn't find any reputable gaming websites that linked directly to any of Glitched's articles.
But, does anyone here know more about South Africa's gaming entities? We don't have any South African sources on the page, and I assume that something older/larger exists. Xanarki (talk) 22:16, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

VGR

Trying to gauge what others think on the reliability of this source. This is their about page and here's an example of their coverage. Pinging @Why? I Ask: since your listing of that example in a discussion introduced me to VGR. Soulbust (talk) 08:20, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Not exactly award-winning coverage, but it has (or had) an editing staff, independent coverage (from what I know), and a good chunk of authors have prior and current editing positions at other places like GameSpot and Monsters and Critics (among others). Why? I Ask (talk) 14:32, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

The Loadout

Looking to see what others think about this source? Here's an example of their coverage. Soulbust (talk) 11:27, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

They seem to have an established staff of writers and editors. Buuuut no one has any actual credentials, just silly one-liners about video games. Unless someone can dig up credentials, it looks more like an amateur enthusiast site than an RS in the Wikipedia sense. Sergecross73 msg me 12:47, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
They are owned by Network N, the same company that owns PCGamesN and Wargamer (identical web sites, same kind of staff pages). Leaning reliable. – Pbrks (t • c) 15:14, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Add explanations on unreliable sources?

Section title says it all. We could at least start with the obvious ones like Hard Drive or somewhat popular ones like Dexerto. 137a (talk • edits) 17:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

If you need explanations, simply use the search tool to go thru the archives, right here on this page up above. Both of the ones you mentioned have been discussed already. For example, here's a lengthy discussion on Dexerto which concluded that it was unreliable.

Resubmitting Euronics

Find video game sources: "Euronics Trend Blog - Gaming" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo

A while back I proposed Euronics' gaming blog to be assessed for reliability. I got no responses and the original proposal has now been archived, so I'm going to try again here.

I believe the site, or more specifically its blog, is reliable due to its focus on consumer electronics and the fact that it's a substantial organization in general, mainly due to it representing a number of independent electronic retailers within various countries around the world, operating in the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Turkey, Greece, Italy, the United Arab Emirates, and more. It's clearly an established organization notable enough to have an article on Wikipedia, with its social media accounts having thousands of followers across Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and its focus on electronics means that it likely hires writers with an in-depth knowledge of various subtopics for its blogs.

--Anonymouseditor2k19 (talk) 04:11, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Adrenaline Vault (3rd discussion)

Find video game sources: "Adrenaline Vault" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo

I think that Adrenaline Vault should be considered reliable, but there should be a notation. Only on two occasions (here and here) has Adrenaline Vault been discussed, and it wasn't extensive. Basically, the site was formed in 1995 and it was one of the most popular gaming websites throughout the late 1990s and early 2000s. Its usage for this WikiProject would probably be for its vast archive of reviews, and maybe a few older news tidbits. For any questions about its notability and legacy, you can see it on its own Wiki article.

However, in 2010, Adrenaline Vault converted into a blog-like website. It initially stated "Once a commercial site and now run by an enthusiastic team of volunteers, Avault remains a refuge from..." It was then changed to "Once a commercial web site and now a respected game blog, Avault remains a refuge from..." It then closed up in 2013, and nowadays it redirects to something unrelated.

Thus, I propose added this as reliable, but with the note of only for the years which spanned 1995 to 2009. Nearly 15 years worth of content is worthwhile I believe. At the moment, the website's name brings up about 131 instances here on Wiki. Xanarki (talk) 01:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

You've done a fine job describing the website, but you haven't really given a valid rationale for why it should be considered a reliable source. Sergecross73 msg me 02:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
I had mentioned that its own Wiki article gave info on its notability and legacy, but I should've also said that reliability applies as well so that's my mistake.
In any case, it was singled out by other reliable sources (via Best Of lists by Detroit Free Press, The Sunday Times, and others). The popular magazine CGW included the website in their Reality Check section (basically, CGW compared the scores they gave games against scores given by other entities, and Adrenaline Vault was included in print). Every review posted has a full name of a staff member and they don't use anonymous aliases. Their website also listed a list of staff along with bios for each person and a physical address in Dallas, Texas (no "editorial guidelines" but they do give vague statements about commitment). Game Rankings included Adrenaline Vault in its old system, and by 2006 its average review scores were 70% (which was about 2% lower than all of the sources on Game Rankings, thus their reviews didn't seem overly negative or positive). And finally, their lengthy tenure online and large amount of reviews is a reflection that they weren't just a short-lived fan site or anything.
But I wanna stress that anything after 2009 is a coin toss and should generally be avoided. I think its blog format from recent times skewed perception, and is the main reason why it was initially listed as unreliable. Xanarki (talk) 15:47, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Gamezilla

I just noticed that there appears to be 2 different Gamezillas? English one: [9], and Polish one: [10]. And the Polish one is only RS? Maybe a note should be added. Mika1h (talk) 15:50, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Yeah you're right. The English Gamezilla has never been discussed here. The original English Gamezilla should be reliable though (it existed from 1996 to 2007, it flip-flopped between a redirect and spam site after 2007). It had a list of staff members, no one wrote under aliases, they had a physical address in Washington, their scores from the reviews were included in Game Rankings' system, and they're included in MetaCritic's system (albeit with outdated URLs). I tried searching some names on Google, but it seems most of the writers did not become journalists elsewhere (although some did stay in the gaming industry, such as the possibility that lead editor Mark Skorupa might be the same Mark Skorupa who was named in that Microsoft-Blizzard sexual harassment lawsuit). Xanarki (talk) 17:28, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
I didn't even know there was a Polish Gamezilla. Timur9008 (talk) 09:50, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

We Got This Covered

Haven't seen this addressed here. They were acquired by GAMURS in 2021 as per their about page. Soulbust (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

It's already widely considered unreliable per WP:WEGOTTHISCOVERED. Sergecross73 msg me 22:40, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Ah okay. Hadn't seen that but makes sense. Soulbust (talk) 18:29, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
WP:RSP is a good place to check for mainstream, commonly questioned sources. Sergecross73 msg me 18:40, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Yeah I check there sometimes, but honestly didn't think WGTC would be mainstream like that Soulbust (talk) 19:14, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Bloody Disgusting

Find video game sources: "...Bloody Disgusting..." – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo

We need to have a real discussion on whether Bloody Disgusting is reliable and either add it as a reliable or unreliable source. They are commonly cited as reviewers for horror video games and I've seen them crop up numerous times. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:24, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

  • From my experience, I'd class them as Situational. For genre news that isn't repeated elsewhere, and for interviews related to it, they seem sound. I wouldn't feel comfortable using them for reviews or standard news that's been reported elsewhere. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:13, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
They're currently considered reliable by WikiProject Film (WP:FILM/R). I haven't done much looking into the site myself, but the film project tends to have similar standards for sources as WPVG, so I don't see much reason to treat them differently here. JOEBRO64 21:41, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Do a search of "according to bloody disgusting" in the custom Google search and you'll see a wide swathe of reliable sources consider them reliable, too. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:55, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Took some digging, because I knew it had been discussed before, but could not remember where. It was at Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Resources#Horror (which Joebro has since found) that lists it as reliable. And while it's not listed at WP:RSMUSIC, I found an old discussion where we generally seemed to agree it was good enough to use in a music GAN. I think I've used it without issue in my music-related article writing too. (Though I haven't seen it come up much in video game related articles much. Maybe it'd be more helpful in Resident Evil or Dying Light type articles though?) Sergecross73 msg me 03:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
I'll just add it to reliable for now based on the evidence. If someone comes up with a reason to doubt them, I'm open to changing it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:26, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Kotaku

is kotaku a reliable source? Blitzfan51 (talk) 20:23, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

@Blitzfan51: See Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources#Reliable sources. – Pbrks (t • c) 20:24, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
Are you asking for it to be reassessed? GamerPro64 02:54, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
He's pretty new...so I think he's just honestly asking... Sergecross73 msg me 03:20, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I was just asking. Thanks for the link to the reliable sources. Blitzfan51 (talk) 16:14, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm still confused why Kotaku is listed as reliable when it literally says "some of their output should never be used". That's the definition of situational. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:42, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
It actually does not say that, either literally or figuratively; all it says is "Editors are cautioned" with regard to certain material. Also, my understanding of situational was not that all content appearing in sources listed as reliable is accurate without exception (if that were the case, we couldn't honestly list any sources as reliable) but that situational sources are generally unreliable yet contain some content which can be cited in certain contexts. Martin IIIa (talk) 13:42, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
There was a period where we were trying to move away from the term situational, because if you split enough hairs, everything is situational. IGN has a USERG wiki we don't use, GameSpot's database uses Gamefaqs data, countless websites used to have user blogs, etc. Sadly, it feels like we're moving in the opposite direction, and trying to rationalize a situation for all of these random churnalism/clickbait outlets. Sergecross73 msg me 13:53, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
Kotaku does at times produce satirical articles (eg [11]). Hopefully, it should be obvious under normal RS policy why those can't be used, but Kotaku does have a slightly larger proportion of these compared to, say, Eurogamer or Gamespot. Its just a caution. Masem (t) 14:01, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Complex rediscussed

Find video game sources: "...Complex..." – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo

Complex is now a subsidiary of Buzzfeed as of 2021, a site that laid off their news staff to make AI articles their mainstay going forward. It should be treated the same as Buzzfeed itself, see WP:BUZZFEED. I think a demotion to situational source is in order, if not unreliable. Stuff like this does not give me much confidence, it just seems copy pasted from a press release. That said, I'm not sure it should have been reliable to begin with, much of what comes up when "video game" is searched are pure listicles written with a goofy, nerdy tone. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:21, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I had thought it was situational already, though maybe I'm confusing it with the fact that it's routinely discounted for other reasons, like not offering significant coverage or noteworthy commentary? ("Luigi was ranked 57th best Smash Bros character" type stuff.) Sergecross73 msg me 02:40, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
I think in the *very* few cases Complex is saying something they should be fine to cite for reception, but that's a thinner window. I don't see what's gained from wholesale saying it can't be used for such when editors should be encouraged to use their common sense on what counts as a tangible statement or not.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:13, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
Complex being part of BuzzFeed is irrelevant, we don't judge publications as unreliable just because they're owned by News Corp for instance. Hemiauchenia (talk) 04:54, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
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