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Draft:Georgios_Mikellides

How to submit this for publication? Ieromaxos (talk) 10:23, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Ieromaxos Draft:Georgios Mikellides has been submitted to AfC for review. There is a backlog of drafts submitted. The system is not a queue, so a Reviewer could select your draft in the coming days, weeks, or months. David notMD (talk) 11:04, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

In looking at the history of the draft, it has been declined several times in the past. These Declined notifications must remain with the draft. I have restored those. The continuing reason for the draft being declined is that the great majority of the text and referencing is about his publications, presentations, panel discussions, etc. What is missing is what people not connected to him have published about him. David notMD (talk) 11:18, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

The draft appears to be a translation from an existing article at Greek Wikipedia. Each country's Wikipedia has different standards for tone and referencing, so what is accepted in Greek does not necessarrily apply to English. David notMD (talk) 11:28, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

If it's a translation, it must be marked as such (see Help:Translation). This is not only a matter of good manners and good sourcing; it's a matter of conforming with WP's own copyright, that text can be used freely but must be attributed. Ieromaxos, please check the help on translation linked above, and make sure that you're conforming with requirements. Good luck with the article. Elemimele (talk) 12:59, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

thank you, for this actually , it was written in English first and the English text was used as a basis to be translated in Greek, so the original version is in English, in the texts which has been referenced a lot is what the media used as information coming from dr mikellides, so in a way, see reference number 2 for e.g is what the cyprus mail reporter has said about him Ieromaxos (talk) 14:11, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

@David notMD, @Ieromaxos... the phrasing sure sounds like a translation. Several sentences are not grammatically correct. If I had time, I would do some copyediting. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 09:01, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ieromaxos Hi there! I see you uploaded the photo of Mikellides as your own work. What is your relationship with Mikellides? GoingBatty (talk) 06:26, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

For a start, delete all mention and referencing to talks he has given, interviews, conference he has spoken at, panel discussions, etc., etc. All that is inconsequential. David notMD (talk) 14:38, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

is this subjective to each reviewer for some it could be ok and for some not? I confused, :) Ieromaxos (talk) 15:39, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Ieromaxos I am not a reviewer. My advice is based on my understanding of what can establish notability and what does not. A Wikipedia article is not a presentation of everything that is in a person's CV. David notMD (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

What defines 'constructive'?

My edits to the Mark Crispin Miller page were undone because they were said to not be 'constructive'? Says who? And why? All I did was remove the word 'disgraced' from a description of Andy Wakefield. I know Andy and the word disgraced doesn't describe how he feels about the incidents described in the article about Miller. 2600:1700:D470:C940:FD23:3295:1148:CDF4 (talk) 16:47, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Constructive: is it useful to our readers? If not, it's probably not constructive. CUPIDICAE💕 16:50, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

We can't base edits on your personal knowledge, as that is impossible to verify. Edits must be supported with published independent reliable sources. 331dot (talk) 16:52, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

COI issues aside, the word "disgraced" is a bit too subjective for my taste. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 17:05, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps "discredited" would be a better word, which is the word used in the lead of Andrew Wakefield. Wakefield's personal feelings about the matter are not relevant. What matters is what reliable, independent sources say about Wakefield, and they overwhelmingly describe him as discredited and disgraced. Cullen328 (talk) 17:13, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

That's a smart alternative word choice, in my opinion. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 17:22, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

The main reason I reverted the edits was because of the removal of sourced content. See the diff >>> Ingenuity.talk(); 17:31, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

"the word disgraced doesn't describe how he feels about the incidents". Maybe not. But it is how reliable published sources describe Wakefield. Or, if you prefer, “dishonest,” “unethical,” and “callous". Maproom (talk) 06:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I believe "disgraced" is a "peacock word" and should be avoided altogether. – 69.112.128.218 (talk) 13:47, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

It is, almost by definition, someone's assessment. It might be the assessment of some--for better or for worse--respected and trusted source. It might even be a widely held assessment. But too often, even in those--for better or for worse--respected and trusted sources, the term seems to be used to "inform" all of the readers that we all are indeed thinking as the source has decided we should be thinking. Yes, I'm all for keeping it out--or at least qualifying it as someone's opinion. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Agree that it is opinion, as there is no objective measure. Opinion should be identified as to whose opinion. Discredited is objectively measurable, dishonest and unethical require insight into intent, but with that, also objectively testable given a defined ethical standard. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 07:12, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Why

What does contributing That guy in the corner of the room (talk) 01:18, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, That guy in the corner of the room. You have to do your best to make sense if you want to get an answer that makes sense. So far, you seem to be speaking nonsense, which is unproductive. Cullen328 (talk)

First, Welcome to Wikipedia. Teahouse is a place where experienced editors will answer questions about how to edit.Looks like you started to pose a question, then hit Publish changes and never came back to finish. Second, Wikipedia is NOT a place to chat with other editors. Your one word postings ("Hi") on several editors' Talk pages have been deleted. David notMD (talk) 12:47, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

• That guy in the corner of the room, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, I see you have gotten responses from Cullen328, & David notMD, who make up two of four leadership figures here at the Teahouse (including Nick Moyes & 331dot), It seems you have made them irate which is very much unusual, I haven’t seen anything yet but could you read WP:CTW, WP:GETTINGSTARTED & WP:TUTORIAL before making any further edits? Celestina007 (talk) 17:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

  Ok That guy in the corner of the room (talk) 18:23, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Fwi: User:That guy in the corner of the room has been indef'd for WP:NOTHERE --Isro! ^chatter 18:11, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Source List (asking again)

I have asked this but the answers were not what I expected. I saw a list of sources for each topic but I do not know where they are located. Oixyplanet (talk) 02:34, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Oixyplanet. You need to be more specific with your questions. List of sources for which topic? How can we help you if you do not identify the topic or the specific article? How can any Teahouse host help uou unless you provide this basic in information? Cullen328 (talk) 05:13, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I believe to have found it on my own already. It seems that each WikiProject has a list of sources to its respective topic, which was what I was looking for. Oixyplanet (talk) 21:29, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Are Basil and Raiden brothers?

Are they? 22:07, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, IP. If you are having trouble understanding a Wikipedia article, please specify which article it is. -- Hoary (talk) 22:41, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Alternatively, you could post your question on the article's talk page. GoingBatty (talk) 15:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

School project

So what is a school project on here as seen on this template{{School block}}

Lazap (talk) 22:29, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Lazap, I have retitled this. Your original title, "Heyy", is not informative or helpful. The template you reproduce mentions "class projects", linked to Wikipedia:Student assignments. Does Wikipedia:Student assignments fail to explain? If something remains unclear, please ask. -- Hoary (talk) 23:04, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

oh I didn’t read that I’ll get right to it! Lazap (talk) 00:33, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

All right I’ve read it and I’m a bit confused on the outreach part like where do I put the group is that allowed in stuff do I have to go trough a process Lazap (talk) 00:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Lazap, I'm sorry, I don't understand where do I put the group is that allowed in stuff do I have to go trough a process and therefore cannot start to explain. -- Hoary (talk) 00:49, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

OK so I want you read that article then go to the link where it says outreach wiki so you can see what I’m talking about Lazap (talk) 00:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Lazap. The template you've mentioned above states as follows:

If editing is required for class projects, please have your instructor or network administrator contact us (with reference to this IP address) at the Unblock Ticket Request System with a contact email address that is listed on your school's website.

So, if you're a teacher and want your students to be able to edit using the school's IP address, you should file a request using Wikipedia:Unblock Ticket Request System and explain what you want to do and why. If you're a student who wants to edit using your school's IP address, you should ask your teacher or some other adminstrator at your school to make such a request. If you just want some general information on using Wikipedia for class project, try looking at Wikipedia Education's website found here. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Not blocked just working on something Lazap (talk) 01:33, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

If you're not blocked, then it's not clear what {{School block}} has to do with anything you've been asking about. Are you a teacher who wants to use Wikipedia as part of one of your classes? If that's the case, then the "Student assignments" page that Hoary linked to above basically gives you all the information you'll need to get started. The Wikipedia Outreach page is a general page that is more global in nature and might be more helpful for schools not located in the US. The Wiki Ed page is more geared to US and Canadian schools; so, their materials might be more appropriate for US and Canadian students. If, on the other hand, your a student who wants to edit Wikipedia, then "Student assignments" page also contains advice for students. Try looking at Wikipedia:Training/For students or try taking the Wikipedia:Adventure for some general guidance. So far, your only edits to Wikipedia have been here at the Teahouse and in your username space; so, it's kind of hard to figure out what you're asking about or what you're trying to do. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:08, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Marchjuly, from her user page, I would guess that she is a student, not a teacher. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 05:31, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Edits on a page required to stem bullying.

Hi Guys, A person known to me, has kids that are receiving abuse because of some written things on this page. The items written are irrelevant to the very old page but are having a serious impact regarding these children. Who can I talk to to make some small edits to stave off this abuse?

Yours, with thanks in advance Dan Danhobbs (talk) 02:36, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

hi Danhobbs! what article would you like to change? you could perhaps add a edit request to change the article and get feedback on your proposed edits if you feel like you're personally connected to them. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 04:41, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Danhobbs.If you're worried about posting anything more specific on a public page like the Teahouse (because of concerns like this and this), you should take a look at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Relationship between the subject, the article, and Wikipedia and try to follow the advice given there. There are various ways to discuss your concerns off-Wikipedia so to speak via email, and perhaps once of them might work for you. One thing you might want to try and avoid is repeatedly trying to edit the article in question since that actually can have an undesired effect and may actually lead to your account being blocked if the editing is somehow mistaken for disruption. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Seconding this. This is very likely a situation where the VRT should be contacted by emailing info-en-o[at]wikimedia.org, as they can handle this with the discretion required (since making any such edit yourself, as Marchjuly said, defeats the purpose of those edits). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 09:04, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi All, Understood and thank you. I had previously emailed 'Aspects' and asked for advice and didn't get a response. Best Wishes, Dan. Danhobbs (talk) 17:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Question on article talk page redirect

I just completed expanding the article The Young Pioneers (miniseries), and then went to what I assumed was the article's Talk page, to upgrade the article from Stub to Start. After completing the upgrade I noticed I was actually at Talk:The Young Pioneers, and that there was a notice of a Redirect from Talk:The Young Pioneers (miniseries). I find that quite awkward, as it's difficult to get from that redirected Talk page back to the article I'd just worked on. Am I allowed to try and figure how to remove that redirect, or should I first ask on the Talk page if anyone objects to me removing it? There is Young Pioneers (novel), Young Pioneers (film), and Young Pioneers' Christmas, and they all seem to have their own Talk pages, so I have no idea what the redirect is all about. Karenthewriter (talk) 02:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Karenthewriter! In general, non-controversial modification of redirects (maintenance, retargeting to section, etc) is perfectly fine and you can go ahead and remove the redirect. Every article should have its own Talk page so it would be the correct action in this case. -Liance^{talk/contribs} 05:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Liance thank you for your reply. I made my first attempt to end the redirect, but that task seems to be above my skill set. I'll need to do some research, and try again later. Karenthewriter (talk) 11:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Update – some good people who are much smarter than I am deleted the unnecessary redirect for me. Thank you to all who helped out with their editing skills. Karenthewriter (talk) 15:33, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Requesting an Admin to intervene in a talk page discussion

Dear Teahouse,

There have been many issues regarding possible stonewalling on a living person's WP article Talk Page. Please check that on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Patrisse_Cullors, two editors who frequently edit articles together, as can be confirmed by reviewing their Talk Pages, have refused any addition to the primary, protected article over recent allegations of nonprofit funds misuse by Mrs. Cullors. The issue here is not the use of non-RS, like Fox News or Daily Mail, but after several acknowledged RS surfaced in the past few days, such as The Independent, NY Mag, Jezebel, Snopes, and others, these two editors still refuse by claiming that this same RS previously did not consider Mrs. Cullors culpable. They further try to deflect any addition by claiming only the nonprofit Mrs. Cullors led should bear any additions these RS might bring since, in their own words, "this is a smear campaign."

We require a neutral Admin, not related to this article, that will look at this situation. I believe this is a clear case of WP:STONEWALLING and WP:TAGTEAM. Please help us with the following steps to take.

Thanks for your time.

108.34.231.7 (talk) 02:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

• This seems to be a case of forum shopping. This IP editor hasn't been able to build consensus on talk in a timely manner (roughly 24 hours ago) so they've applied both to dispute resolution and to this worthy forum. I encourage the editor to stick with one helping venue; choose. The editor does seem to be trying to improve their sources but is meeting strong arguments from experienced and BLP-knowlegeable editors that the requester here is doing some original synthesis. BusterD (talk) 03:34, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

  Hi BusterD, what would you say about the experienced editor, as you mentioned, who has hounded me, gone to my IP's Talk Page and posted two warnings, and responded to all my suggestions in an aggressive manner? Would this be appropriate from an experienced editor? Not only that, but only two editors are stonewalling this issue on that Talk Page. If you look across the Talk Page, more editors are commenting otherwise. So this is not a case of me alone vs. two experienced editors. I am the one who is requesting a neutral look from outside since many, many RS have mentioned these very recent accusations. These two editors have made plenty of changes/edits to that article and, after protection was granted, are guarding this person's article and accusing all those RS of being part of an "orchestrated smear campaign." This goes against WP:NEUTRAL. 108.34.231.7 (talk) 05:29, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

  I would say we have that sort of discussion on the talk page and wait a reasonable period of time (certainly more than one day) before going to multiple venues to complain about what seems (to you) unreasonable treatment (and what seems to them a BLP violation). I will say no more on this subject here; this is the wrong place to discuss on the merits. BusterD (talk) 05:41, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Administrators cannot use their admin tools to intervene in a content dispute unless there are serious conduct issues at play. Disagreeing vehemently with the people on opposing sides of the dispute is not a serious conduct issue. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 04:27, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor. I am an administrator so I took a look and what I see is a content dispute, and administrators do not adjudicate content disputes. It is obvious that this particular dispute relates to the critically important policy Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons which says Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment and also A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations and arrests do not amount to a conviction. For individuals who are not public figures; that is, individuals not covered by Public figures, editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed, or is accused of having committed, a crime, unless a conviction has been secured. If different judicial proceedings result in seemingly contradictory outcomes that do not overrule each other include sufficient explanatory information. In this case, there are allegations of of inappropriate real estate purchases. Without expressing any opinion about the best way to describe this issue, or whether to mention it at all, I will say that perhaps two separate real estate transactions are at issue, and that one was made by an organization and the other by the individual in question, possibly using her own funds. The policy issue is that, unless misconduct has been proven by a court of law, there is a very high threshold to even mentioning such allegations. Any mention of this matter must accurately and neutrally summarize what high quality reliable sources say about the dispute. Coverage from unreliable sources should not influence the content discussions in any way, shape or form. Any editor who "grinds an axe" to advance an effort to smear a living person should be aware that they are at imminent risk of a block. Cullen328 (talk) 04:32, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Admin Cullen328, thanks for replying. Regarding the "smear campaign" accusation by two editors who frequently edit together (as seen by their Talk Page), they are accusing the recent RS of having orchestrated said smear campaign, not a particular editor. So, in essence, NY Mag, The Independent, Snopes, and Jezebel, to name a few, are part of such a campaign. Regarding WP:BLP, while your point is very understandable, the question would be how and when to include direct accusations by RS. The request is to do so in a neutral manner. The issue is that these two editors prevent the mere mention of this. Many RS' with inline citations could be used for a neutral sentence or two. Nevertheless, if I misunderstand WP's policy and all BLPs must avoid accusations even when sourced to several RS, I would humbly ask why many BLPs do not conform to this and do document what RS' say? Mainly in politicized issues, a public figure such as Mrs. Cullors being directly pointed at by RS' such as NY Mag, The Independent, Snopes, and Jezebel for sure can have a mention, to use your words, and accurately and neutrally summarize what has transpired in the past few days. I agree with that. Apologies for any misunderstanding, but I would like to reiterate that we are only trying to use RS'. We are not pushing for specific verbiage but for including "something." We just want to follow WP:BLPPUBLIC and simply document what these (multiple RS) sources say. Thank you for helping. 108.34.231.7 (talk) 05:40, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

IP number, you write we are only trying to use RS'. We are not pushing for specific verbiage but for including "something." We just want to follow WP:BLPPUBLIC and simply document what these (multiple RS) sources say. Why the first person plural? -- Hoary (talk) 05:45, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi editor Hoary, I would say a mix of not being a native English speaker and the fact that there are other editors in said Talk Page pushing for the documentation of what these multiple RS' state. If you look through the Talk Page, you will easily find other editors on the same vein. If you would prefer me to tag them here, and it is allowed, let me know. Thanks. 108.34.231.7 (talk) 06:03, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

IP editor, Hoary asks a very relevant question. Is your use of "we" an indication that you are part of a multi-person effort to smear Cullors here on Wikipedia? If that is the case, please consider yourself informed that coordinated defamatory editing is forbidden and may well lead to blocks. This is not the venue to discuss in detail what reliable sources say about Cullors. There are many forms of dispute resolution available to you short of escalation to this noticeboard. When you come here, your own behavior will come under scrutiny. So, again, I advise you to follow WP:BLP policy scrupulously, and be very cautious about inserting any unproven allegations into a biography of a living person. Comments about unproven allegations by reliable sources who may have "report on gossip and innuendo" as parts of their business models do not necessarily justify the inclusion of innuendo into biographies in this encyclopedia. Our inclusions standards are deliberately much more conservative than that. Cullen328 (talk) 06:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Editor Cullen328, I now understand after you explained it. The former editor's manner seemed very aggressive. I originally meant me and the other editors in the Talk Page who have espoused for inclusion of a neutral sentence or two from a RS. As an example, but won't be tagging this editor here to avoid canvassing, editor MrPorpoise. Please check his many messages in the same Talk Page and how the same two editors are engaging in WP:TAGTEAM. If you review these editor's Talk Pages you would see they tend to edit articles together. Is there any way to report this? Thanks. 108.34.231.7 (talk) 01:17, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

IP editor, this is a collaborative project so noticing two editors collaborating is unremarkable and is not evidence in itself of any sort of misconduct. Please be aware that WP:TAGTEAM is an essay expressing the opinions of one or more editors, but it is not a policy or a guideline. These are two highly experienced editors, each with years or over a decade of experience and tens of thousands of edits. In my opinion, those two editors understand the importance and applicability of WP:BLP policy much better than you do at this time. You could file a report at the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents but you must inform those two editors and you must provide compelling evidence. Please also be aware that your own conduct will be scrutinized as well as the conduct of the two editors you report. If you want to read another essay, then I recommend WP:BOOMERANG. Cullen328 (talk) 01:53, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Images

I've noticed that for many articles about people, there aren't any images of them in the infobox. Images of those people, however, are publicly available when you go to Google Images. Why is this? Is it that hard to find a non-copyrighted or CC image, or did the editors writing the page merely forget? Vortex (talk) 05:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

These aren't just stubs. There are fully completed pages without images, too. Vortex (talk) 05:08, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

The former. (Google Image Search pulls up copyrighted images just as readily as it pulls up non-copyrighted ones.) —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 05:08, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

It's pretty hard. OTOH, Wikipedia editors (aside from the spammers and other paid hacks) are volunteers, and their/our time and effort are limited. They may have missed something that you could find, if you looked. If you try looking, remember that a CC license is not enough (it must be a particular kind of CC license); and that lack of an assertion of copyright does certainly not mean non-copyrighted (indeed, you should assume that any image is conventionally copyright, "all rights reserved", unless you have, and can point to, good evidence to the contrary). -- Hoary (talk) 05:41, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi Vortex3427. Wikipedia's licensing policy for images and other types of media is explained here and here, but bascially it often comes down to whether an "free image" can be found for use in an article. In this context, "free" generally refers to the copyright status of image and not the availability of the image. There are many images online that one can look at for free or even possibly download for free. but that doesn't necessarily make them free from copyright protection. Such images, for the most part, can't be uploaded to Wikipedia without the explicit consent of their copyright holders (except in certain cases). In addition, a website may be hosting images created by others, and thus the website itself doesn't have a real claim of copyright over the image. Some websites may even be trying to claim copyright ownership over content that is within the public domain and is actually no longer or has never been eligible for copyright protection. For these kinds of reasons, it can be tricky to figure out what kind of images are OK to upload and what kind aren't. So, unless the website clearly states that all of it's content has been released into the public domain or has been released under one of these licenses, it's probably best to avoid trying to upload it to Wikipedia. You should also be careful with any images that look like they didn't originate with a website (e.g. some of the things listed in here) because it possible that the website isn't the copyright holder of the image even when they explicitly state their content is "free". So, whenever you have any doubts about a particular image, it's probaly best to ask for help at either Wikipedia:Media copyright questions or c:Commons:Village pump/Copyright to see what others might think. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:47, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Vortex3427, "publicly available" doesn't mean much these days, especially on the Internet! 73.127.147.187 (talk) 05:42, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I have a question about referencing

Whenever I add a website for referencing, it says that the website I am referencing is blacklisted from Wikipedia. I tried 4 or 5 websites, and all of them said the same thing! Could someone please help me? Thank you! Lilkeegy (talk) 07:30, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

It suggests to me that the sources you are using are not very good sources. --Bduke (talk) 07:42, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Lilkeegy. In most cases, there's usually a pretty good reason why a website gets added to WP:BLACKLIST. You might have no choice, but to try and use the search window on the BLACKLIST page to try and figure out why. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:49, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Lilkeegy: Are you linking to those websites directly, or thru some sort of URL shortener (practically all of which are globally blacklisted)? —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 09:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Lilkeegy: Are you trying to link directly to a site? Usually that is OK. But if you are trying to link through a redirection service, that may be blacklisted. If the link is a very long one, that starts with, for instance, "https://www.google..." and contains lots of ampersand characters, that is an example of a redirection service. Avoid those; go directly to the intended site. Feline Hymnic (talk) 09:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Feline Hymnic WDYM "Ampersand characters"? Lilkeegy (talk) 04:51, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Lilkeegy, ampersand is the character "&". 73.127.147.187 (talk) 05:44, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for telling! Lilkeegy (talk) 15:47, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

From what I can see he is trying to add a source for India census data. There is a single non-blacklisted source for the india census data from the Government, which I previously searched from the archives but don't remember right now. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 11:37, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Lilkeegy:If you're trying to source India Population data, just use official government website. (example link for 2011). The various (commercial) aggregator sites where blacklisted since at least February 2020 due to spamming (and, being controlled by private individuals they're probably less reliable than the government website)

FYI @Jéské Couriano In most cases when a user complains about blocked link additions, the spamblacklist log shows the exact link that was blocked. Because that log comes from a MediaWiki extension rather than the MediaWiki core, entries often don't show on combined log pages. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 20:38, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Jéské Couriano I am just copy-pasting the link, without shortening it. Lilkeegy (talk) 04:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Editing the Wiki Meta page

I was trying to translate the Wiki Meta page. At first it was showing that there is some error and when the error text went away I'm not getting the publish option. Phospheness (talk) 09:48, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Phospheness Please provide a link to the page you are trying to edit and explain what error you are seeing. You do not appear to have made any edits to Meta or Wikipedia:Meta. Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:53, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello again. The link to the Wiki Meta Translate page: https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=Centralnotice-tgroup-WFHR2022&language=en&filter=%21translated&action=translate

Thank you. Phospheness (talk) 11:29, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

WikiSource Markup's future

Hello, I am Narutmaru! I thought, since the VisualEditor is now here, will the WikiMarkup be closed? It is a pain in the butt for many new editors, and its honestly much more easier to work with. Regards, Narutmaru . To contact me, visit my Talk Page. 11:39, 18 April 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narutmaru (talk • contribs)

Wikipedia:VisualEditor has been around for many years, but still has many limitations, so there are no plans to remove WikiMarkup at present. Hopefully both options will continue to be improved. Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:04, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Narutmaru, a standard way to contact any editor is to do so on their talk page; and so such an invitation really isn't needed, other perhaps than when addressed to the occasional newbie. -- Hoary (talk) 13:25, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Narutmaru: ...instead, you can just drop four tildes ~~~~ to sign your comment automatically and drop an automatic link to both your user and talk page. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 14:27, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

If WikiMarkup was removed I would retire immediately. I personally cannot deal with Visual Editor. SK2242 (talk) 14:45, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Ya, i think tht for those who want markup, they can use, but for those who want to use visual also need to have same amount of features as markup editors.

Regards, Narutmaru . To contact me, visit my Talk Page. 14:55, 18 April 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narutmaru (talk • contribs)

It won't, and wiki markup can do things that the visual editor hasn't been able to yet, like modify table cells. The visual editor is an ongoing project and it still hasn't come out of beta yet. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I have found the Visual Editor surprisingly usable, and certainly so when compared to WYSIWYG editors I have had to deal with on other platforms. That said, I still find myself gravitating toward source editing, and I suspect many beginner editors would be more open to it if they were made aware of syntax highlighting. It's an obvious functionality if you have worked with just about any kind of code before, but that still won't be the case for the majority. Dr. Duh 🩺 (talk) 11:23, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

How can I make a new article?

There's a highly acclaimed indie film not being given an article called The Toll (2021). How can I make one for it? Youngbloodpriest912 (talk) 12:22, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Youngbloodpriest912. Please take a look at WP:42 because it gives a general overview of what is usually needed to create a Wikipedia article about something. Then, you're going to want to take a look at Wikipedia:Notability (films) because that pages goes into more detail about what it tends to take to create an article about a motion picture. Finally, you can find editors who might be able to offer you further advice at Wikipedia:WikiProject Film. The members of that WikiProject will probably be able to tell you whether an article about the film could be created, and more importantly whether it would survive a deletion challenge. It will make no difference who creates such an article and how well written it is if the film doesn't meet one of Wikipedia's notability guidelines. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:39, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Teahouses and treehouses

Say why is it called the teahouse instead of treehouse Quident (talk) 12:32, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Quident, Wikipedia:Teahouse is a place to ask questions regarding editing and using Wikipedia. However, if you are really curious, back in the day, Teahouses (cafes but tea) were the place of discussion. Teahouses served a major role in the French Revoulution, and they helped transmit certain information to the masses. Treehouses are fun, yes, but Wikipedia, is a encyclopedia, not a place to joke around.

However!

If you truly want to have fun here, go to Wikipedia: Department of Fun, or try editing or creating articles on your favorite topics~!

Signing off,

Regards, Narutmaru . To contact me, visit my Talk Page. 12:50, 18 April 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Narutmaru (talk • contribs)

thanks Quident (talk) 15:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Removing vandalism on talk page

Hi! I came across two cases of vandalism on the this talk page of a BLP. I was wondering if it was possible to remove such cases by editing the talk page. Toofllab (talk) 13:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

An experienced editor has already reverted the addition on the basis that WP:NOTAFORUM and that the addition was not in English. You can do the same sort of reversion when necessary, Toofllab. It's usually best to use the article history to revert, not by making an edit on the page which removes other editor's entry (see WP:TALK). Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:32, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Okay, got it. Thanks! Toofllab (talk) 13:35, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Toofllab, I agree that they were inappropriate and that their removal was appropriate. As said above, another editor has removed the pair, but not because they were vandalism. They weren't vandalism. I'm sure that you have good intentions, but an understanding of what is and isn't vandalism is needed before removing comments as "vandalism". More generally, please see this. While you're still uncertain of what you should do and therefore hesitant to revert, do please report talk page edits that you think should be reverted: experienced editors will take over. -- Hoary (talk) 13:38, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Article about Jürgen von Stietencron is notable?

Hi there, I would like to write an article about Jürgen von Stietencron, who was an influential violin maker. Born in Ascona (IT) c. 1928, died in Hegne (DE) c. 2021, he translated one of the most important books for violin-making of the 1970ies, SACCONI´s "The secrets of Stradivari" into German, from 1988 to 2005 he held masterclasses at Musica Riva (now Ticino Music festival). How to prove the notability of a Wikipedia article on that topic? Andreas Hampel (talk) 14:48, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Andreas Hampel: Welcome to the Teahouse. Please take a look at WP:BIO which states, "A person is presumed to be notable if they have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." --The Tips of Apmh 14:53, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Question regarding the front page

I'm no longer seeing the portal quick links, and it doesn't look like any alternative css page styles are available, so the change is probably not due to something on my end. If there's a better spot to ask just reply with the link, I tried somewhere else earlier that didn't work (was reverted apparently) and the talk page you're normally supposed to use is locked, so this seemed like the best bet, thanks. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:C4CC:81EC:7705:1FBC (talk) 15:56, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

The portal link is now lower on the Main Page, in the "Other Areas of Wikipedia" section. RudolfRed (talk) 16:27, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Ah, guess I've gotten lazy (ctrl+f usually works to find things that go missing), should've done a manual check before asking. Alright not quite as convenient, but I only use them infrequently anyway, and let's face it, front-end design really isn't my thing, though IMHO the front page probably could use an overhaul, thanks for the pointer. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:C4CC:81EC:7705:1FBC (talk) 16:36, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Moving the content of my user/sandbox into a draft

Hello everybody,

I have been editing on articles for a while and last year I started a new article in my sandbox User:Yeti-Hunter/sandbox. Basically it´s a stub about an offshore supply ship which is actually to be converted to the new oceanographic research vessel of the Schmidt Ocean Institute. So far I am done and ready to move it. But I am struggeling with the Move of the content to a draft page because the name convention for ships requestes that the name is in italics like R/V Falkor (too) and worse the name of the converted vessel contains two characters ( ) which might cause even more trouble to me. So, my question is now. Should I fill in the Displaytitle-template with the name of the vessel {{DISPLAYTITLE:xyz}} aka the MagicWord, and add this template in the very first line above the infobox inside my sandbox content? Or should it be placed when I create a draftpage. I already tried something like this but I got a error message because the real vessel name does not fit to the naming convention for article names. I really apprechiate your help and I am looking forward to your advices.Yeti-Hunter (talk) 16:02, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Yeti-Hunter: Welcome to the Teahouse. I wouldn't worry about determining the formatting of a draft page; if you add {{subst:submit}} to the top, a reviewer will change it accordingly if it's accepted. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:08, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello everyone Please help me someone about my writing my first article for someone.

 Courtesy link: User:Altamashkhan1/sandbox

I am a new editor on Wikipedia and writing my first article for a UAE based businessman and yes he has very notable content on very well-known websites like Khaleej, gulf news, and many more. Can anybody check my sandbox article which I already published and tell me my mistakes if it is there? Altamashkhan1 (talk) 17:38, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello Altamashkhan1, welcome to Wikipedia and the Teahouse. I have looked over your sandbox page and your article looks good to publish (to me, anyways.) I was unable to find any spelling errors and the page generally follows Wikipedia guidelines. That is a great page for a new editor, and I wish you good luck on this page and all your following pages and edits! - ypc0cnz (talk) 18:14, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your precious time. Altamashkhan1 (talk) 21:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

No Problem- well, as long as you contribute your fame in part to me when you become the next Elon Musk ;) lol. But seriously have a great day, I hope this page ends up well for you! - ypc0cnz (talk) 21:28, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Altamashkhan1, and welcome! A couple of notes: the External Links section does not conform to Wikipedia's policies (more information here and, more specifically, here (#10)). You should probably remove that section. Make sure your sourcing follows the reliable sources guidelines (most of them ought to be okay, but it's still worth checking). And if you haven't already read it, this page has a lot of helpful information for writing your first article. I've put a list of links that are generally helpful for Wikipedia contributing on your talkpage as well. Happy editing! Perfect4th (talk) 18:41, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hey there , Thank your for your great help. Altamashkhan1 (talk) 21:20, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Can you check again my sandbox article for me. I have already change some as per your point of view. Please help me. Altamashkhan1 (talk) 13:22, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Altamashkhan1, I think you're in good hands with TimTempleton and Theroadislong! They have a lot of experience with this. Make sure you demonstrate how the subject is notable – as Theroadislong said, the subject needs to pass this guideline (WP:GNG). Happy editing! Perfect4th (talk) 17:07, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Altamashkhan1: - after a quick glance at the sources, I think you're better off making the article about Filli Cafe, instead of Rafih Filli. He doesn't seem to be notable for anything besides the Cafe, at least in Wikipedia's definition of the term "notable" WP:GNG. Also, the sources seem to be unabashedly promotional, with fawning language to describe the stores and Filli. I think you're not quite there yet. Also, if you know Filli personally, and are writing this for him, you should read WP:COI and make the proper disclosures (section 2) on your talk page. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Great help. Thank you. Altamashkhan1 (talk) 22:03, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Can you check again my sandbox article for me. I have already change some as per your point of view. Please help me. Altamashkhan1 (talk) 13:20, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Question

Why does the Wikipedia not pay its editors to write and edit the articles? As a professor I have always written articles and been paid for them so maybe I do not understand. The140IQProfessor (talk) 18:58, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello! Thats rather simple actually, Wikipedia is a community project. We edit for spreading information. We do not edit for financial gain. Paid Editing is actually banned on wikipedia to allow for a non-biased experience. Nobody needs to edit on wikipedia, we do it because we want to. PerryPerryD Talk To Me 19:12, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

PerryPerryD Au contraire, paid editing is not banned. See WP:PAID. What is required is that paid editors declare their status on their Talk pages. Employees of a company or a person may be asked to create a draft, or choose to, even if not asked - both count as paid editing, requiring disclosure. There are also freelance editors who offer to create drafts. Again, disclosure. Undeclared paid editing is grounds for editors being blocked. As to why Wikipedia does not pay? Because that works. In English Wikipedia alone there are more than six million articles (of widely varying quality), many the work of scores of editors each striving to improve the quality of the articles without being paid. David notMD (talk) 20:12, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I'll ask again, since nobody answered.

Hello, again. This page's section on Poliespo lacks many parts of Poliespo's design including phonology and orthography despite it being decently well-known. I am bringing this up again because I: A) don't want to make any decisions without approval, and B) I was ignored when I asked previously. JanKeso (talk) 19:25, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello. If a section is lacking parts of a design, you should find a source or 2 and add the details you think its missing, Be Bold!, Reverting is normal, and dont be afraid to edit. PerryPerryD Talk To Me 19:27, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

JanKeso You posed a question on 14 April and I replied same day: "From the available refernces in that article, I see no evidence that Poliespo exists other than Waldon said it does. If there is published content about Poliespo other than by Waldon, you could create and submit a draft. If not, not." I stand by that. If you can provide references to the attempt to establish Poliespo as a language, separate and subsequent to Billy Ray Waldon's claims that he created Poliespo, then by all means create and submit a draft, using WP:YFA as a guide. Mention and referencing to Waldon can be in a History section of the draft. David notMD (talk) 20:05, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I didn't receive any reply from you or anybody else. Also, there is a Youtube video that contains some information about Poliespo here JanKeso (talk) 20:11, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

JanKeso You asked your question at Teahouse and I replied at Teahouse. This time, I 'pinged' you, to make sure you saw my reply. FYI: YouTube is not considered a reliable source reference for Wikipedia articles. David notMD (talk) 20:16, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

The Youtube video is the only source that is easily accessible that contains any information of the phonology and orthography of Poliespo, to my knowledge. It sure would be a waste to not use some of it, even if it may be wrong in a few areas. jan Keso (talk) 20:28, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy on YouTube is that because anyone can create YouTube content, it is not reliable source referencing. Same for blogs and forum content. And interviews. References do not need to be easily accessible, i.e., on-line, but do need to be published. David notMD (talk) 20:32, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

David notMD There is also a email thread listed in the description, and a document that is referred to multiple times throughout the video. The reason I added the "easily accessible" part was because someone who wants to add more information on a topic but said topic has inaccessible content that would be required to add more information (such as Poliespo) would have a problem. jan Keso (talk) 20:45, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Actually, YouTube content can be used if content is uploaded from a verified official account, though its use should still be scrutinised. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:56, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

hi Tenryuu and jan Keso! ...I'm willing to guess that said source is Conlang Critic: Poliespo from the cute fraud themself which doesn't really count as a verified official account. the document in the video is La Fundamento de Poliespo, which is Waldon's. the email thread also probably doesn't count. if you'd like to add stuff there, you probably would want to obtain sources independent from waldon (in other words, not La Fundamento) and not self-published (not from jan Misali or youtube in general). happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 00:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

ping fix: @janKeso 💜  melecie  talk - 00:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

 melecie That would definitely help. However, there is virtually no other evidence of Poliespo other than what I have already brought up. jan Keso (talk) 02:14, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@JanKeso, if there is "virtually no other evidence", then that "info" should not appear in a Wikipedia article. It would be a bigger waste to include information that other readers can't trace back to reliable published sources with a reputation for fact-checking. Those are the rules here. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:00, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Not sure why I was pinged in this; I was responding to David notMD's assertion that YouTube videos can never be used. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 02:47, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

JanKeso Given the above, and after an educational visit to Constructed language and List of constructed languages I am now of the opinion that Poliespo is not "decently well known", and does not deserve an attempt to create an article about it. David notMD (talk) 08:30, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

73.127.147.187 David notMD I wasn't saying we should make a full article, I was saying that we should elaborate more on existing information. jan Keso (talk) 09:46, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Lack of references independent of Waldon still applies. David notMD (talk) 11:15, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

David notMD There is 0 other information that exists that, if existing, would be seen as Wikipedia-friendly. At least that's what I concluded from what you said. jan Keso (talk) 20:02, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Translated article "does not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article"

I was working on translating an article which lacked some information that I added into the draft. However, it is still being rejected on the basis that the subject is not notable. The original article exists in two other languages, and my sources are almost identical to (albeit more numerous than) the sources that exist in the French article. What am I doing wrong? Ff2maa (talk) 20:07, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Every project has different inclusion requirements. One project may have no bar for notability, while we do. CUPIDICAE💕 20:08, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi Ff2maa. Please take a look at this for more details, but basically each Wikipedia project has its own policies and guidelines that might not be exactly the same. There may be some aspects that overlap, but there may be some important differences. Since English Wikipedia has the most articles and the most users, its policies and guidelines tend to more rigorously applied than is done on some other Wikipedias; on the other hand, more users can often mean there’s more subjectivity in how English Wikipedia’s notability guidelines are applied. An article already existing on another Wikipedia doesn’t automatically mean it should also exist on English Wikipedia because there’s no true one to one correspondence between the two Wikipedias. So, the translation is going to need to meet English Wikipedia’s notability guidelines for it to be accepted. — Marchjuly (talk) 20:24, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

The references I could read (English) established accomplishment and awards, but were basically name mentiones (did this, got that...). None were about Shirahama AT LENGTH, a requirement for English Wikipedia. David notMD (talk) 20:29, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Ff2maa, a tip for more material. If "[her] recent works have garnered critical acclaim", then what was the acclaim (as summarized in your words), who were the critics, and where did they publish it? That could add up to [en:Wikipedia-defined] notability. -- Hoary (talk) 00:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ff2maa, this is probably a minor point, but the inline citations go after any punctuation, not before. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Verywell Mind

Hi. I have a question: why is Verywell Mind not considered a reliable source? I was trying to add some information to an article using this website as my source, and apparently the verywellmind.com domain is blacklisted. I don't really understand why and I couldn't find any explanation for it. The website seems to contain reliable, medically peer-reviewed information. Castlepalace 20:25, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@Castlepalace: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you look at the Dotdash entry on perennial reliable sources and this discussion, the domain has been blacklisted for persistent abuse, and they have to be whitelisted before use. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 21:05, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Artist Discography page not approved?

Hi! I am trying to create a page for a singer/songwriter that has been on 2 TV shows, in articles such as Billboard, E News, Entertainment Tonight, Grammys, and more... The actual biography page is still under review, but the discography page was already declined... Any tips? Kenwshew (talk) 21:43, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Kenwshew, hello there and welcome to the Teahouse, To be honest, the only tip which unfortunately may not be the answer is to learn first, I can point you to WP:NALBUM or WP:MUSICBIO and there you’d definitely find some help, but that would be bot like, rather I’m offering you an uncomfortable truth, I know how annoying, saddening or disheartening not getting what you want is, trust me I do, I note your account is barely 6 months old, what you want to do is first to understand how notability works, read WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO & WP:RS, there’s a lot more to learn than the aforementioned, but generally I tell editors trying to create articles that if they have an idea of WP:GNG & WP:RS worked they would solved half their problems. Furthermore you can have a conversation with the AFC editor who declined the article, ask them what their concerns were, sometimes you can learn a lot from working with the declining editor than asking for general help here. Furthermore why does the discography need a whole separate article that can’t be included in the biographical article? Celestina007 (talk) 21:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Charles Clément Balvay

The title of this article really needs to be changed. The individual referred to himself as Charles Clément Bervic ... was known by this name in his time and ever since, and he is not readily identified by the name "Balvay." References within the article, likewise, need to be changed to Bervic. I have tried to raise this matter on the article's "talk" but without any evidence that my concern has been noticed. George-Amherst (talk) 22:05, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

George-Amherst, hello and welcome to the Teahouse, the blanket answer if there has ever been a change of the article name in the past, please do not try to unilaterally do anything, in-fact the answer to your question would be for you to seek consensus on the TP of the article & if that isn’t working, you can raise this point in WP:RM. Celestina007 (talk) 22:10, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe there is any resource in print where Bervic is known by the name "Balvay". Consequently, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to change this title unilaterally, if I were able to do so -- I don't find evidence in the history of the article of any discussion of this subect. How would I seek a consensus on this subject? -- or for that matter, any meaningful discussion, were there reason *not* to change the title? Why would Wikipedia maintain a usage that seems to have no practice anywhere else? George-Amherst (talk) 22:40, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Btw, thanks for your suggestions George-Amherst (talk) 22:42, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

George-Amherst, I took a very quick look at the article. I clicked on two of its references. The second, this one, refers to him as Balvay. It doesn't only refer to him in this way, and briefly discusses the ambiguity, but it does refer to him in this way. Perhaps the article would be better retitled ("moved"); but unless I misunderstand you, your premises for retitling it are mistaken. -- Hoary (talk) 23:41, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

George-Amherst, a Google Books search for "Charles Clément Balvay" shows that many books use this name. I posted links to three of the books at Talk: Charles Clément Balvay but several more are readily avaliable. Therefore, your assertion that I don't believe there is any resource in print where Bervic is known by the name "Balvay" is incorrect. It seems that Charles Clément Balvay was probably his real name and that Bervic was the name he used as an artist. Cullen328 (talk) 01:23, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Here the British Museum says proper name Balvay, but always used Bervic. Cullen328 (talk) 01:27, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

"Here the British Museum says proper name Balvay, but always used Bervic." But what name does the British Museum actually use? -- Charles-Clement Bervic.

"The English Cyclopedia" is not an authoritative reference for a French engraver ... however, looking further here, you'll find that the article on the individual is alphabetized under Bervic. People do not look under Balay for this individual.

Look further at your example by Prettejohn: she uses the name "Bervic" in her discussion, not Balvay. We cannot check the usage in Rombout's book, but the author notes that the individual is called Bervic, which is why Wikipedia should do so as well.

When I look through Google Books, under "Bervic," there are many examples, few of them even mentioning "Balvay"; under "Balvay" in this resource, however, there are NONE (!), no example referring to this individual on this first 2 pages. By titling your article under this name, you are sending your reader to nowhere! In fact, you're concealing information. What's your point? George-Amherst (talk) 03:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@George-Amherst, Nothing is being "concealed" and no-one is being sent to "nowhere", because a search on "Bervic" has been redirecting to the current article since 2009, and a search on "Charles Clément Bervic" has been redirecting to it since 2010. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.101.71 (talk) 06:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Excuse me, "The second, this one, refers to him as Balvay." This article isn't about the engraver Bervic, it is about a pastelist, a Mlle. Carreux de Rosemond, student of Labille-Girard. George-Amherst (talk) 02:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@George-Amherst, @Cullen328, if the second reference is not about the subject of the article, then it should be removed, along with any info that the reference is backing up, right? 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:17, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

IP editor, you are correct that sources that do not discuss Balvay/Bervic should be removed, and the several sources that actually discuss Charles Clément Balvay by name should be added, and their content summarized. Cullen328 (talk) 06:30, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Cullen328, thanks. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

George-Amherst, you are the person who confidently asserted that I don't believe there is any resource in print where Bervic is known by the name "Balvay" and you got indignant about it. Yet I proved in a few minutes that your assertion was incorrect. Now, you seem to be claiming that Bervic should be preferred to Balvay. Maybe you are right. But in making that argument, you really ought to admit that you were wrong in your initial assertions. That would go a long way toward developing an amicable consensus outcome, which ought to be based on an analysis of the best reliable sources discussing this person. Since the current version of the article mentions both names in the first sentence, this is not really an urgent matter that justifies dogmatic claims for immediate action. 05:56, 19 April 2022 (UTC) Written by Cullen328 (who perhaps hit "~" once too often). But I could have written the same thing. I second it. -- Hoary (talk) 08:53, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Article at AfC, mainspace, but then edited back to (declined AfC version)

Margaret A. Wilcox was declined at AfC for not being written in formal, neutral tone. I re-wrote the article, and moved it to the mainspace. Now a new editor has come along and changed it back to the version that was declined. What is the appropriate next step here? DaffodilOcean (talk) 22:40, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

DaffodilOcean, hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You help us aid you better if you provide links (diffs) to what you reference, This circumstance seems rather strange, please can you show us links to that which you speak of? Celestina007 (talk) 22:54, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Ah...looks like someone just reverted it. I don't know how to show differences (though I have seen this done).

I moved this version to the main space: [1]

Then I saw this version: [2]

As an aside, I would love to learn how people show the differences with one link. DaffodilOcean (talk) 22:59, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

You just provided diffs. Celestina007 (talk) 23:46, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

@DaffodilOcean, see Help:Diff#Linking to a diff. StarryGrandma (talk) 00:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

The link from StarryGrandma is what I was looking for, magic. Thanks. DaffodilOcean (talk) 00:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

And now another new editor YeonL has come along (with only this one edit) and added back some, though not all, of the encyclopedic statements and un-cited statements. See diff here [3]. I have edited the page again, but is it appropriate to protect the page, or is this too minor to bother? DaffodilOcean (talk) 12:42, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Trying to submit an article for reivew

I drafted and submitted U.S. Coast Guard History and Heritage Sites, I get this message: "This is a misplaced articles for creation submission. If it is not yet ready for article space, please consider moving it to draft space rather than marking it for deletion. Note: If you are not an administrator or page mover please tag the redirect left behind after the move for deletion using {{db-r2}}." How do I get my article placed correctly for review? HnHCDR (talk) 22:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I have moved it for you to Draft:U.S. Coast Guard History and Heritage Sites McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 22:49, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Any suggestion how to avoid this next time? HnHCDR (talk) 23:29, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

hi HnHCDR! drafts are created with the prefix Draft: so all you need is to create a new page, but prefix it with that first. the Article wizard automatically places new pages you create in it in the draftspace, you could use that. happy writing! 💜  melecie  talk - 00:21, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@HnHCDR You can also easily create drafts via Wikipedia:Drafts#Creating_and_editing_drafts. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:49, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

How can you cite financial statements?

I am currently drafting an article about a Philippine energy company (First Gen) (wikipedia draft here: Draft:First Gen Corporation) . I found their financial statements for FY 2021 but when I click on their annual financial report, the pdf is downloaded to my PC instead of opening a link to a web version of the pdf. How can I circumvent this problem? I have no idea what to do now and help would be appreciated. Thanks. Financial statements link: https://www.firstgen.com.ph/disclosures ShiriEdits^Talk 03:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@ShiriEdits, the sources don't show that anyone has published anything substantial that demonstrates why this company is notable. News of routine business dealings, and financial statements, do not show Wikipedia notability. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:25, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@User:73.127.147.187, thanks for pointing out that my sources do not show notability of First Gen. Can you give me an example of what warrants notability? I really don't know what warrants an article. Thanks for the help. ShiriEdits^Talk 07:23, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

That disclosures link and your ref #2 are to the company website. Company (or individual person) websites can be referenced to support simple factual statements, but are not accepted as independent reliable source references to confirm notability. I agree that the other refs read like financial/business press releases. Are there any articles about the company - not its deals - in news sources? David notMD (talk) 08:44, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

ShiriEdits, please see WP:NCORP. Bascially, Wikipedia has little interest in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is almost entirely interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If enough material is cited from independent sources to establish notability, a limited amount of uncontroversial factual information may be added from non-independent sources. David has mentioned some exceptions to this, but unless you establish notability according to those criteria, you're wasting your time and effort. ColinFine (talk) 09:08, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@ShiriEdits, in addition to the excellent advice just given, please see Your First Article. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 06:26, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Last edit not published

Hello

My last edit has not been published or declined, I think it was in April 2021 but unsure. I had added a table. I cannot see any comments so could you please advise what stage it is at?

Thank you

Nalini AwesomeAubergine (talk) 04:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@AwesomeAubergine: Welcome to the Teahouse. What edit to which page are you talking about? I see you've been working on Global Girmit Museum, which has been accepted as an article. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 04:29, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I edited this page by including a table of other related museums? Was that not received? AwesomeAubergine (talk) 04:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

AwesomeAubergine, your most recent edit to Global Girmit Museum was at 09:36, August 7, 2021 (UTC). Neither that edit nor your preceeding edits added a table. Perhaps you forgot to click the blue "Publish changes" button when you were working on the table. Cullen328 (talk) 04:56, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

will revisit..thanks AwesomeAubergine (talk) 05:02, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi AwesomeAubergine. If you check your Help:User contributions, you see a record of pretty much every edit that you've made (even if the edit was subsequently reverted by another user) with your account up until now. The only ones you'll no longer be able to see are edits made to pages that no longer exist (i.e. pages that have been deleted). According to your contributions history, the last edit you made to Global Girmit Museum was in August 2021. If you're trying find out what happened with respect to a different earlier edit you made to that article, you can search through the page history for the article. Perhaps the edit you made was subsequently reverted or modified for some reason, and you should be able to find this out by looking at the article's page history. If, by chance, you mistakenly logged out or otherwise had Internet connection issues before you could save your edit by clicking "Publish changes", then that edit is, unfortunately, gone forever since the software didn't keep a record of it. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:06, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! AwesomeAubergine (talk) 05:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

OK AwesomeAubergine. It looks like many of the early edits you made to article needed to be revision deleted because they were considered too inappropriate to even keep a record of in the article's page history. You can see this by all of the early edits that were struckthrough up until July 18, 2021. When something like this happens, it usually because content that was deemed to be a copyright violation was added to the article (for example, content copied and pasted from some external website directly into the article). If the table you added to the article was basically a copied and pasted version of a table appearing on some other website, then it was likely removed as well. A message about this was left on your user talk page at User talk:AwesomeAubergine#Wikipedia and copyright; so, perhaps that explains what happened to your edit and why you can't see what it was. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:16, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Sorting, sorted-list-merging, pyramid select (stable tournament), insert middle (binary)

Hi. Question1: I try send 3 algorithm, but failure by admins. If not wiki interested in algorithm, where can i found community about sorting? You can look on page https://mlich.zam.slu.cz/js-sort/wiki-peter/ - Pyramid-select is similar tournament, bigger code, need memory, but faster and STABLE. (n=1000, cmp=8700) - Sorted-list-meging is half part od merge, detect sorted list and merge it. Or select sorted list is 1. Simple code, need memory, fast, stable, 3x faster in multithread mode. (n=1000, cmp=8700) - Insert-middle (binary sort from timsort), but my code not use complicated code for detection left-right galop (n=1000, cmp=8700)

Question2: Why not in table for algorithm added information about stable or unstable?

Question3: Why use for complex info formula n log n? Its false. True formula is Sn = A*n - (2^A - 1) // i not see any log, ln, i see exponent | n = 8, A = 3, sn = 8*3 - (2^3 - 1) = 16 + 8 - 7 = 17 | n = 1000, A = 9.35, sn = 1000*9.35 - (2^9.35 - 1) ~= 8700 | Sn(0..A) = (n - 1) + (n - 2) + (n - 4) + (n - 8) ... Peter.mlich (talk) 07:14, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't understand questions 1 and 3. As for question 2, the tables at Sorting algorithm each have a column for stable/unstable. Maproom (talk) 08:02, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Click any algorithm in table on your page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_sort

On right, you see box info about algorithm, there is no stable. Peter.mlich (talk) 07:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

LIke Maproom, I have little idea what you are talking about. When you have questions about a particlar article, you are much more likely to find people who know about the subject if you ask at that article's talk page (eg Talk:Sorting algorithm); or if you find a relevant WikiProject (eg WP:WikiProject Computing) than asking at the Teahouse or other general pages. ColinFine (talk) 09:12, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

• As far as I can discern it, Peter.mlich has invented/implemented a new sorting algorithm which they claim to be better than other standard algorithms under certain metrics, and want to include that in Wikipedia. The correct answer is therefore that we do not deal with original research, which should be addressed to other channels (in this case, a computer science journal, I guess). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 15:09, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

  New... May be or not. I dont know, i dont undestand code on wiki. My Pyramid can be Tournament-sort, but, my code is stable. List merging can be something too. Insert middle can bee binary insert and alternation can use Tim sort. But, my code is differend, work in someone differend. And does not respond with values in table on mail sorting page.

  Pyramid is modification of select sort. But, in table have select sort n*n.

  Insert middle is simple moditication basic insert-top, insert-bottom. Not compute galop left-right as timsort.

  List merging use merging sorted list. In my code very old. But, somebody maybe can create it before. I don know. May block sort? But sorted-list-merging is better name, intuitive, what alg. do. Peter.mlich (talk) 07:58, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Formula, i can change it, 2^a = n, when you use n as 2^x

$O(n\log n)=(\ln(n)/\ln(2)-1)*n+1$ Peter.mlich (talk) 07:48, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

hi Peter.mlich! improving your algorithm doesn't help its chances in Wikipedia unless you get people, probably journalists or researchers in your field that are independent of you, to write about it. unfortunately, we cannot accept original research. you can probably find some other places to share your algorithm in, although since I'm not in the circle of sorting algorithm people, I cannot really give any places for you to start. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 08:05, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Ok. I try present on pages specialized on algorithm. I can only try present for world on world most-visited place :) This place not work, when you is programmer and not school-scientist :) I hope to find community here. But found only librarians. This not problem, but other pages can die early, lost text for ever. Peter.mlich (talk) 08:14, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello , I want to write an Article but i don't know which is Notable or Not  ?

This is only one and first English Online News portal which name is The Narayanganj Page from Narayanganj, Bangladesh. Zahidul Is Chowdhury (talk) 10:02, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Zahidul Is Chowdhury, are you perhaps asking whether "The Narayanganj Page" is notable? If so, it is notable if it has been discussed to some extent in other reliable sources. -- Hoary (talk) 12:28, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Zahidul Is Chowdhury, you have asked me (on my talk page): "Please refer or provide in other reliable source link / About the New Article The Narayanganj Page". There is no article The Narayanganj Page. Perhaps you're asking me to look for reliable sources about "The Narayanganj Page". If so, no: if you believe that reliable sources exist, it's your job to find them. If other editors see that you have made a good attempt, this may prompt to help you continue your search. -- Hoary (talk) 08:08, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

How to know the removed edits?

Hey guys,

I am still new here,

I received a note saying that " Unfortunately, one or more of your recent edits to the page ... did not conform to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, and may have been removed."

Is there a way of checking what has been removed so that I can site it correctly ?

Thanks Gentlemanwalkin (talk) 12:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Gentlemanwalkin: Welcome to the Teahouse! I assume that message was in reference to your only other edit to the project, Special:Diff/1083545310. The entire edit was reverted, likely because it contained no references whatsoever. Happy editing! Bsoyka (talk) 12:14, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

i think i messed up in adding them, I will work on that thanks Gentlemanwalkin (talk) 12:43, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse! If you would like to cite sources, you may use the ref tool at the bottom of the screen where you are editing. Then, place the URL between the two "ref"s. Severestorm28 12:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

thank you, i will do that now Gentlemanwalkin (talk) 12:42, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Correction of references in article which was declined.

I need help in editing the page Draft:Emmanuel Sikora as it was reviwed and some issues in referenced emerge. I want help from experienced editors to make it correct. Ifra86 (talk) 12:34, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Ifra, and welcome to the Teahouse. Wikipedia is not much intyerested in what somebody has done, published, written, said, produced except where other people have written about it. You need to remove all (or nearly all) the sources which derive from Sikora, and instead find sources where people unconnected with him have chosen to write about him: some reviews reviews will work (but they need to have been published by a reliable publisher, and actually talking about him at length, not just name-checking or repeating what's in his publicity). Most of your sources must each satisfy all three of the following criteria: they must be reliably published, they must be wholly independent of Sikora, and they must contain significant coverage of Sikora. If you cannot find at least three sources that meet all of these criteria, then it is likely that Sikora does not currently meet Wikipedia's criteria for notabililty, and no article about him is po0ssible. ColinFine (talk) 12:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Updating a business page information - Current content is over 4 years out of date

Hi, I need some assistance getting a business page updated. I do have a conflict of interest which I have stated, being an employee of the business. I had been speaking to someone and provided all relevant information. The current content is 4+ years out of date, and almost non of the information is accurate. I have the information and all references in the correct formatting but have not heard from the page editor in over a year. The page is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EConsult

Any advice getting the page updated would be hugely appreciated. JimrobertseConsult (talk) 12:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@JimRobertseConsult: you're asking too much, in too general terms, and the sources you're providing aren't great. What you need to do is state exactly what text you want to change. Say explicitly which text you want to remove, and which text you want to add, and where. If you have a lot of changes, do them in small chunks in case whoever looks at the request finds they agree with one bit and not another. Editors here are unlikely to want to put a lot of effort into this, so you should aim to meet them half-way by actually writing the text yourself. But keep your changes neutral and factual; no one is going to accept anything they perceive as advertising copy.

Every change must be supported by a reference. Throw away everything published by the company itself. None of that will be acceptable. Similarly, do not use any websites and publications from the NHS. Since the NHS is your customer, it is not a reliable, independent source. What you really need are write-ups by independent journalists in newspapers, preferably national newspapers. One good write-up in the Guardian, for example, is a lot more useful than a whole set of local newspaper articles of the sort used to pad out some columns between the adverts. Detailed studies published by academic groups can sometimes be useful, but run the risk of being primary rather than secondary; if they're reports commissioned by health bodies considering using the company, or assessing the effects of using the product after its introduction, they will probably not be seen as independent secondary sources. In general, as a very rough rule of thumb, if you can only find the thing as a pdf on some organisation's website, it's probably problematic. If you don't have independent, national coverage, then it is likely that the subject isn't yet sufficiently notable for Wikipedia. This is no shame: there are plenty of good businesses that aren't notable.

The bottom line is that nothing is going to go in that article unless there is good secondary evidence backing it up. On the other hand, if there is information in the article that is incorrect and is either unsupported by any source, or is supported by a source that is likely to be out of date, it can be dealt-with. Unsupported information can be removed (just say, explicitly, what you want removing). Information that is supported by an out-of-date source can be reworded to make it clear it reflects the situation at a point in the past, not necessarily the current situation.

But thank you for doing things properly, and being patient, rather than wading in with CoI editing! Elemimele (talk) 13:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Jim, and welcome to the Teahouse. I see that you have appropriately raised an edit request at Talk:EConsult, around six weeks ago, and you are waiting for somebody to look at it. The main reply is to be patient: Wikipedia is a volunteer project, and editors work on what they choose to work on. It looks to me as if your request is around the middle of the 145 open requests in terms of age; but that list is a list, not a queue, and they do not necessarily get addressed in order. What I will say is that the edits you have requested look to me like a lot of work for an editor to pick up and consider carefully. My suggestion would be to break it up into much smaller jobs, that will be individually less forbidding for an editor to attend to. ColinFine (talk) 13:04, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Interactive maps aren't displaying

Is wikipedia aware that the interactive maps aren't displaying (at least on my screen)? Please see {{maplink}}, {{OSM location map}}, or any article using these templates such as Russian cruiser Moskva. The maps are all blank on my screen - is it just me? This is well beyond my expertise - I don't even know where to report this. Hoof Hearted (talk) 12:54, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Actually, it appears to only be my laptop. I have no issues opening these articles on my phone. Hoof Hearted (talk) 13:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

About languages

Can a user registered in a Wikipedia log in to another Wikipedia? (eg. A user of the English Wikipedia attempts to log in to the French Wikipedia). - CafeGurrier66 (talk • contribs) 13:03, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes. As a rule, logins are valid across the whole of the Wikimedia projects - Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikiquote, etc in any language, and also WikiData and Wikimedia Commons. Some language Wikipedias send a welcome message to you the first time you visit them while logged in, which can be disconcerting, because you may not even realise that you've visited them. ColinFine (talk) 13:07, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@CafeGurrier66:: Thanks for stopping by to ask this question. See Wikipedia:Unified login. Essentially, once you create an account on one Wikimedia project, the same login will work on all Wikimedia projects. So, your en.wikipedia login will also work on fr.wikipedia. --Jayron32 13:08, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

But although the logins are universal, everything else is sort-of separate, so you will find you have a different personal talk-page in each wikipedia, and your own user page will be a red-link in any language where you haven't written one. And a different set of people will growl at you if you do something silly; sins committed in English don't necessarily impact the French world! Elemimele (talk) 13:14, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Producer Page Improvements

Hi,

I work for a company named Kyoto Music and have been trying to draft a page for one of our artists. Our submission was declined recently because our references "do not show significant coverage of the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources". However, comparing our article with other articles for music producers on Wikipedia I do not really see how it doesn't qualify. This is my first time editing on Wikipedia and I'm just a little confused. Could you please take a look at the article and tell me more specifically what I would need to do to get this article published on Wikipedia?

Many thanks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Paul_Frazer?action=edit KyotoChloe (talk) 13:30, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

• Hello, KyotoChloe. As you are a paid editor, you must put a mandatory disclosure either on your user page or on the talk page of every page you edit, see WP:PAID.

Let’s assume that is taken care of. As you have been told, to show the subject is "notable" (in the Wikipedia-jargon meaning of the term), you need sources satisfying a set of three criteria: (1) in-depth coverage, (2) independent, (3) reliable. See also WP:SINGER for some topic-specific info. Other existing articles may not meet that standard, but (1) that’s not a reason to accept new non-compliant articles, and (2) if so please give the links to those so we can fix or delete them.

The first reference of Draft:Paul Frazer is this piece, which is basically an interview. Interviews usually fail the "independent" test, since their content is what the subject of the interview want to say, not critical commentary. On the other hand, a source like this is more useful. However, it seems to be about a Black Futures album rather than Paul Frazer - if all other usable sources are like this, it would probably be better to create an article about Black Futures / Never Not Nothing rather than the individual band member.

Just to be clear, when it comes to sourcing, a lack of quality cannot be trumped by quantity. We usually require at least three good sources (depending on who you ask, two really good ones can be enough or three is a minimum number, but that is usually academic). That is why, if you want a thorough review of your sources, the usual advice is to provide your three best ones - this way a reviewer does not have to look through dozens of texts.

All the above refers to concerns of notability. If the subject is indeed notable, then you can write an article. To do that, you can use other sources that fail criteria (1) and sometimes (2) to cite specific facts in the article. Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 14:49, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, KyotoChloe. I suspect that the biggest difficulty you are having is that you are under the misapprehension that drafting "a page for one of our artists" is something that is appropriate in Wikipedia. It is not. At best, you can draft "an encyclopaedia article about one of our artists". It will not belong to them or to you, it will not be under your control, it might end up containing material that you or they do not want there. Above all, it should be based almost entirely on what people who have no connection with you or the artist have chosen to publish about the artist, not on what you or they or your associates say or want to say. As an editor with a conflict of interest, your task is even harder than the already difficult task of creating an acceptable article, because you are likely to find it difficult to write neutrally about your artist.

One more point: you mention that there are articles on other producers which do not seem to be held to the high standards which you are being confronted with. Unfortunately, that is likely to be true: we have thousands and thousands of seriously substandard articles which would not be accepted today. Ideally somebody would go through those improving them, or nominating them for deletion if they can't be made acceptable. But for some reason few of our thousands of volunteer editors seem to want to spend time on that task. Please see other stuff exists. ColinFine (talk) 15:38, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Courtesy: Draft:Paul Frazer.

KyotoChloe, I did not read every one of your references but I read about seven of them that I picked at random. Some mentioned Frazer in passing and others did not mention him at all but rather discussed his projects. What is required are several references to independent, reliable sources that devote significant coverage to Frazer himself as a person. So, identifying your three best sources and deleting your weak references is a good idea as suggested by Tigraan. Also, you must immediately comply with WP:PAID. This is mandatory. Cullen328 (talk) 15:06, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Encyclopedia.com

Is Encyclopedia.com a reliable source? And if not, can I still include it as an External link? 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 14:20, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Ficaia. Like many sources, I think the answer is "it depends what you are using the citation to support". Encyclopaedias, including Wikipedia, are WP:TERTIARY sources and the best sources for us are WP:SECONDARY ones. Hence it would be useful to read the Encyclopedia.com article and then paraphrase the information from whatever source they quote, rather than use their interpretation of it. In the specific case you linked, I can't see any source, so I'd be very cautious about using that. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:57, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ficaia, it's actually a collection of stuff from several sources, much of which I presume is generally reliable, see for example Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_279#Encyclopedia.com. On the Encyclopedia.com page you should be able to see what the actual source is. When you make your cite, you can link Encyclopedia.com, but try to get the other info correct per the actual source. Hope that helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:58, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

2022 Nepalese protest

Hello! Add text, please Станислав Савченко (talk) 14:22, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Станислав Савченко Teahouse hosts are here to advise, not be co-authors. It falls to you to add content to 2022 Nepalese protest. David notMD (talk) 14:28, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I see, thanks!--Станислав Савченко (talk) 14:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Станислав Савченко A reminder that content must b verified by references. What you know to be true is not enough. David notMD (talk) 14:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Does citing from the official website count as a valid source?

e.g. If you were writing about Twitter, could you cite twitter.com's about page? ETMonster (talk) 14:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@ETMonster: that is what we consider a primary source they can be used to support simple basic facts and not our preferred sources. An article should not be based on primary sources, nor do they support notability. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 14:42, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@ETMonster A little, yes. See WP:ABOUTSELF. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:59, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Tony Hernandez - artist

hi - could you add a page for Tony Hernandez - Artist - his images were used as the illustrations for the album cover art for "Drops of Jupiter" and his paintings are in significant collections worldwide. 4.34.19.35 (talk) 14:42, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

If you can find several good sources about him, such as this one from the New York Times, you might have sufficient sources to write an acceptable article. Please read the Your first article guide. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:14, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

And what Rodger means by good sources is that they must be independent of the subject and reliable. If you have those you can most certainly create an article for him, although you probably won’t find someone here to create it for you. Maybe you could request for an article to be made at WikiProject Art or WikiProject Biography. Make sure provide good sources if you do. ― Kaleeb18^Talk_Caleb 16:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Draft article problem

I'm only able to create draft articles, this has never happened to me before in my really old previous accounts i can't access anymore. Can someone explain why this is happening?

Pallit-on - Say something - 16:25, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Pallit-on. In order to create new articles, an account must be autoconfirmed. That means the account has made at least ten edits and is at least four days old. Your account is only two days old. Cullen328 (talk) 16:32, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Dang, didn't know that. Well, hope they get accepted :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pallit-on (talk • contribs) 16:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I see Draft:Kalle Myllymaa as a submitted draft. P.S. Remember to sign your postings. David notMD (talk) 16:55, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Need help with fixing cite error

Can someone please take a look at page Battle of Samana and help in fixing the following error - Sagoo 2001, p. 125. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFSagoo2001? MehmoodS (talk) 17:02, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Nevermind - I was able to resolve the issue. There was a duplicate cite book on the same page which was causing the error. After removing the duplicate, the SFN errors were resolved. MehmoodS (talk) 17:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

can u pls tell me if the article i created is still under review?

can u pls tell me if the article I created is still under review? Laxmiunni (talk) 17:07, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

If you are talking about User:Laxmiunni/sandbox the answer is no because the submit button was removed. I will add it back though. Also I suggest reading your first article guide and referencing for beginners guide before you submit it. ― Kaleeb18^Talk_Caleb 17:14, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Laxmiunni. if you submit it in its current state, it will be declined, as it cites no sources. It does list some sources, but citing those won't help, as none of them is independent – they are all based on what the subject has said. To get it accepted as an article, you'll need to establish that the subject is notable by citing some reliable independent published sources that discuss him. Maproom (talk) 21:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Establishing notability

Hello everyone, nice to meet you. I would love to get the community's thoughts on Draft:Innovation Endeavors, specifically in terms of notability. Looking forward to discussing with you here or on the draft's Talk page! Thanks for your help, AJ at Innovation Endeavors (talk) 18:05, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

In my opinion, a good, appropriately sized draft. Seems notable enough. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 18:41, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, AJ at Innovation Endeavors. The main issue, as with all articles about corporations, is that to meet WP:NCORP a few of the citations at least have to be based on WP:INDEPENDENT sources. I've not checked all the cites in the Draft but those I did were clearly based on interviews or press releases. For example, Lunden's piece in TechCrunch says Among the areas that Deep Life tells me it... which shows this reference is not helping with notability. Part of the problem is that a high-profile figure like Eric Schmidt is frequently interviewed and may mention some of the ventures he is involved with but you need to try to include some reference with WP:SIGCOV of Innovation Endeavors itself that aren't just things that would be in a trade directory, which Wikikedia is not. More experienced editors will comment once you formally submit the article for review. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:45, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Annie Merner Pfeiffer

All I want to know is who was this person and why are libraries named after her? Wikipedia has no entry. 2603:6011:F006:6300:170:42C2:7150:A4A (talk) 18:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Welcome. The Teahouse is for questions about how to use and edit Wikipedia. For general knowledge questions, try the Reference Desk at WP:RD RudolfRed (talk) 18:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

See this. Deor (talk) 21:03, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

We have a stub on her husband Henry Pfeiffer. It seems to me that he, she and the foundation created to continue his philanthropic works are probably "collectively notable." Further information could be added to that stub, but an alternative appropach might be to convert it to an article about the foundation that could subsume information about both of them (and be redirected to from their names). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.101.71 (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

حذف زمان دار مقاله

سلام، من مقاله ای از ویکی پدیا انگلیسی به فارسی ترجمه کرده ام. لازمه اشاره کنم که فارسی زبان اول و مادری من است و از خوانا بودن مقاله در زبان فارسی اطمینان دارم. با این وجود مقاله ی من دچار اخطار حذف زمان دار شده است. من علاقه ی بسیاری به ترجمه دارم و در حال آموزش سطح بالای زبان انگلیسی هستم و تمایل دارم به عنوان تمرین کاری مثبت در جهت ترجمه ی مقاله به زبان فارسی انجام دهم. لطفا اگر ممکن هست من را در این مورد راهنمایی کنید و پیشاپیش از کمک شما قدردانی میکنم. با احترام نگین Neginghaderii (talk) 18:57, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, this is the Teahouse for the English Wikipedia. Please ask your question in English only. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 19:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I suggest posting your request at the Persian Wikipedia help page:

fa:ویکی‌پدیا:درخواست_راهنمایی Fabrickator (talk) 19:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

من این پیام را با گوگل ترنسلیت ترجمه کرده ام، پس اگر نادرستی وجود دارد ببخشید. به هر حال، سلام، به ویکی پدیا و چایخانه خوش آمدید! خوشحالم که تصمیم گرفتید مقالات را به فارسی ترجمه کنید. امیدوارم همه چیز برای شما خوب پیش برود! اگر برای یافتن مقاله برای ترجمه به کمک نیاز دارید، یک راه آسان این است که اگر در ویکی انگلیسی هستید، روی «مقاله تصادفی» در سمت چپ بالای صفحه اصلی کلیک کنید، یا اگر در ویکی فارسی هستید، می‌توانید روی آن کلیک کنید. «مقالهٔ تصادفی» در سمت راست بالای صفحه اصلی. وقتی مقاله‌ای را پیدا کردید که راحت روی آن کار می‌کنید، راهی برای دیدن اینکه آیا قبلاً به یک زبان ترجمه شده است یا نه، رفتن به بخش با عنوان «زبان‌ها» است و نشان می‌دهد که چه زبان‌هایی برای آن مقاله در دسترس است. به یاد داشته باشید که صفحه را مشاهده کنید و روی "مقاله تصادفی" در زبانی که می خواهید از آن ترجمه کنید کلیک کنید. در اینجا 5 نمونه وجود دارد که من پیدا کردم: یخچال های طبیعی پاکوود، لوح اعلامیه استقلال، سالن خالق دینا، فابیو گال، و کمیته بازی جوانمردانه کوه قلب. باز هم امیدوارم این سفر برای شما خوب باشد و تا حد زیادی موفق باشید. روز خوبی داشته باشی! - ypc0cnz (talk) 23:00, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

proper setting of access-date when archive-url is added

Suppose a citation has an "url" that has become dead, you add an "archive-url" parameter and presumably check that it contains the content to support the claim, then should "access-date" be left alone or should it be updated to reflect the current date? Fabrickator (talk) 19:01, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Fabrickator I leave the old access date, since that's presumably supposed to be about the date the original source was viewed, not the date I added the archive. I don't think there's any official guidance on this anywhere. -- asilvering (talk) 23:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Refrences

Hello, I am new to Wikipedia and have made major edits to a page just to realize that I don't know how to add references into said text. This has led to me scrapping several major revisions to pages and I think it is about time I figure out this basic concept lol. Sorry for wasting your time with this question :( - ypc0cnz (talk) 19:05, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ypc0cnz: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you're asking about adding inline citations, you're going to want to take a look at Easy referencing for beginners. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:33, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello Tenryuu, thank you for your reply. I appreciate it very much and will make sure to look at it. Thank you and have a great day! - ypc0cnz (talk) 19:44, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ypc0cnz, another first look at adding sources is given by the referencing sections in Help:Introduction. StarryGrandma (talk) 19:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much for this reply StarryGrandma. I will absolutely make sure to take a look at Help:Introduction, and your User Page helped me out a lot as well. Thank you and have an amazing day! - ypc0cnz (talk) 19:46, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

timely deletion warning

Hi, I have translated an article from English Wikipedia into Persian. I need to mention that Persian is my first and mother language and I am sure that the article is readable in Persian. However, my article has received a timely deletion warning. I am very interested in translation, I am learning a high level of English and I want to do something as a positive exercise such as translating articles into Persian. Please guide me on this if possible. I would appreciate your help in advance.موتورسیکلت تریال Neginghaderii (talk) 19:08, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, this is the Teahouse for the English language Wikipedia. You will need to take any questions about articles in Persian to the Persian language Wikipedia. Shantavira|^{feed me} 19:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I believe your question should be posted at the Persian Wikipedia help page: fa:ویکی‌پدیا:درخواست_راهنمایی Fabrickator (talk) 19:36, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia and the Teahouse! I am happy that you have decided to translate articles into Persian. I hope all goes well for you! If you need help finding articles to translate, one easy way is to click on "Random Article" on the top left side of the main page if you are on the English Wiki, or if you are on the Persian Wiki then you can click on "مقالهٔ تصادفی" on the top right side of the main page. Once you find an article you are comfortable working on, a way to see if it is translated to a language already is to go to the section labeled "Languages", and it will show which languages are available for that individual article. Remember to view the page and click "Random Article" on the language that you want to translate from. Here are 5 examples that I found: Packwood Glacier, Declaration of Independence Tablet, Khaliq Dina Hall, Fabio Gall, and Heart Mountain Fair Play Committee. Once again, I hope this journey turns out well for you and succeeds greatly. Have a great day! - ypc0cnz (talk) 22:57, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

thank you so much. I will start with them. Hope they don't nominated for delete :) Neginghaderii (talk) 07:11, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Most viewed user talk pages

What are the most viewed user talk pages of all time as well as the last 30 days? I tried finding a page that has it, but I couldn't. If anyone can find the answer for me, that would be great. Interstellarity (talk) 20:25, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that's tracked anywhere anymore. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 21:58, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Interstellarity As a pure guess, it's likely that the "all time" and current record is held by User talk:Jimbo Wales, for obvious reasons. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:22, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

prabook.com

Is Prabook a reliable source? Thanks. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:23, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

No. For a variety of reasons which have been discussed at WP:RSN but primarily as it's wP:UGC and often a wiki mirror. CUPIDICAE💕 22:30, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

@BeanieFan11: Also just a minor note but questions about the reliability of a source are supposed to be asked at WP:RSN. Sorry for being picky lol. ― Kaleeb18^Talk_Caleb 22:59, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

"TWINKLE"

I found this add on in an edit tag and I really want to try it out but I am confused on how to add it to my account. Please help. FuzzPie3 (talk) 23:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

hi FuzzPie3 you can activate Twinkle by going to Preferences > Gadgets > Browsing >   Twinkle. for more on this, please see Twinkle and counter-vandalism unit. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 04:10, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Dan Utely

Does ANYONE know who this was or if he ACTUALLY exsits??? If they do, why isn't there an article on him? VeraCruz776 (talk) 23:49, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Because nobody has taken the time to do research to see if there's any usable sources on them (or if they did, determined the sources didn't exist). —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{a little blue Bori} 23:55, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

additionally VeraCruz776, there's a guideline on what belongs and doesn't on wikipedia. just because someone exists or even is popular doesn't mean they can get a wikipedia article, they have to have some notability to get one, which is established over at WP:N. then someone would have to find reliable sources as stated above, and then and only then could someone be able to create an article for someone. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 04:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Help

Hello, for the last month or so I’ve been having some issues with a pacific editor YLoGM. The subject of this dispute is a image of the Chinese emperor Chongzhen YLoGM believes it’s his brother Tianqi. After going back and forth for a while I decided to message Gary Lee Todd the individual who actually took the photo of the portrait in question and he told me that he simply copied the label of the portrait which stated that it was Chongzhen. The portrait is located in the Ming Tombs which is a museum so unless the museum is wrong it is in fact Chongzhen. So I again put the portrait in the info box of the emperor and told YLoGM about what Gary told me and I even left a message on YLoGM Talk page giving a link to my conversation with Gary on Commons so that they could for themselves. YLoGM Left it alone for a week or two but earlier today I noticed that it was reverted so I again reverted it and again stated that I had suficiente proof that it was Chongzhen and they again reverted it. So now I don’t know what to do I know YLoGM will just keep reverting it. What can I do? Orson12345 (talk) 01:03, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Orson12345: Don't engage in an edit war. Look at WP:DR for some methods you can use to resolve the dispute. RudolfRed (talk) 01:35, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Circle Inspector

This is a draft of 1996 released Kannada language film . Since it was released in 1990s , it is difficult to find sources for it . Please help me to find relevant sources. Alone 333336 (talk) 02:45, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Draft:Circle Inspector (film) 💜  melecie  talk - 04:04, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Alone 333336, if there are reliable sources, my uneducated guess is that they will be reviews in Kannada-, Hindi-, or English-language ink-on-paper periodicals that will not be on microfilm or microfiche, let alone on the web, and will not be indexed. If my guess is correct, then even if you have access to a superb reference library, finding them will be prohibitively difficult. My guess may be wrong; I hope it is. And it's very likely that I am less than averagely informed about Kannada-language matters. However, you could try asking the same question at WT:WikiProject India: people there will be more than averagely informed. -- Hoary (talk) 08:51, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Alone 333336 I looked at the filmography of Girija Lokesh, one of the actors in Circle Inspector, and many of the Kannada-language film articles had content similar to your draft. This does not necessarily mean yours should be accepted as is. One of the more complete movie articles is Nanjundi Kalyana. It has a Plot, Production and Reception section, and for the cast list, gives the names of the characters they played in the movie. I recommend you improve the draft modeled on other Kannada-language movie articles, try to find more refs, and submit again. David notMD (talk) 11:04, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Trying to figure out a new open-source mapping approach

Hi editors and fellow Wiki people,

I've been working on maps of battles of the French Revolution previously such as in Battle of Fleurus (1794), and I've previously relied on an OSM no-labels version found here: https://mc.bbbike.org/mc/

However, this has since gone down and is no longer available, and I'm trying to find other sources of OSM maps with no labels that I could use to base my map annotations and labels on, but I'm hampered by the fact that I'm really not very sure about the licencing situations for alternatives, or about how OSM maps and tiles and layers work at all.

I have started looking at alternatives (so far I've seen Mapbox, Maputnik, and Stamen Maps) and some of them seem like they might be applicable--but before I begin experimenting, I'm wondering if anyone already knows if these are suitable licence-wise for Wikipedia? Or if someone already knows another source of no-label OSM? It's a bit specific a question, I would really appreciate if anyone has any input or suggestions they can share. Talamioros (talk) 03:42, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Talamioros. I have been an active editor and later administrator for almost 13 years without developing any expertise with maps. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps for some resources that may be useful. The technical nerds tend to hang out at WP:HDT. Cullen328 (talk) 06:03, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Talamioros Hi the Techie hangout is WP:VPT - friend Cullen got the wrong bowl of alphabet soup. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:16, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

alphabet soup sounds like it'd be a nice meal for an editor, probably goes well with some tea too 💜  melecie  talk - 06:49, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

What if I don't like tea?

Is there a water house?

I'm posting from my phone and don't remember my password. 2600:6C4E:1200:1E85:8CDF:7215:A99D:72C6 (talk) 05:39, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello. IP editor. "Tea" is just a metaphor for something calming and reflective. It could be one of countless varieties of coffee, or Viennese pastries, or many fresh fruits. The idea is that the Teahouse should be a friendly, welcoming place for asking questions about editing Wikipedia, and answering them accurately. Cullen328 (talk) 05:51, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

hi ip user! there's no water house, but we do have a village pump. jokes aside, do you have an email assigned to your account? if you do, you could probably reset your password. if you don't, unfortunately you'll have to start a new account, although you also have to establish somewhere that your previous username is yours. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 06:15, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Wrong Photo

How can I ask someone active in Wikipedia to remove the wrong photo and replace it with a correct photo of the person described 81.229.195.55 (talk) 07:22, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You may use the associated article talk page (for example, Talk:Joe Biden) to discuss any concerns about that article, including its images. There should be a "talk" link at the top of the article(in desktop mode, at least, in mobile/app mode it's a tiny bit harder to find). IP users and new accounts cannot upload images, but you may work towards uploading one at Files For Upload. 331dot (talk) 07:30, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, IP user, and welcome from me too. In addition to what 331dot says, there's also the issue of whether an image with suitable copyright status is available. We have many articles about people which lack images not because we don't want them to have pictures, but because nobody has found an image which is licensed in such a way that it can be freely reused (which is a core policy of Wikipedia). A wrong image is a different matter, certainly, but it might be that the best we can do is to remove the wrong image. If this is a person you know, or that you have access to, and you can take a picture of them yourself, you will be able to license it appropriately youself. ColinFine (talk) 09:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, and in addition to what Colin and 331dot said. If you saw the wrong photo on the right-hand side of a Google search results page, in the "knowledge panel", that is almost certainly a problem on Google, not Wikipedia. Check the image on the actual Wikipedia article, if the image is correct, it's a Google problem that we can do nothing to fix. Otherwise, report it on the article talk page or here and it will get sorted. - X201 (talk) 11:24, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Crossed out edit

When I view the history of the page "EBIS" one of the edits is crossed out twice in black and I can't view it why is this? President SFH (talk) 09:09, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

hi President SFH and welcome to the teahouse! that is possibly because the edit is supressed and only visible to oversighters. said edit could've possibly been of personal information, libel, or copyright infriging, however since again it's oversighted, I can't see what it is about. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 09:18, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Peer Review request on a draft page?

Hey Guys, I have finally gotten around to finishing my first article again - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:BerriBlue
It got deleted and there was a whole COI thing, which was pretty annoying, so now I've tried to be as careful as possible with citations etc etc.
What's the best way to re-publish it? I'd like to submit it for peer review, but it doesn't allow me to add the template to the draft talk page.
It says " This template should be substituted on the article's talk page. "

Could you please help me to get the new version approved? Thanks, Wil57 (talk) 10:57, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Wil57: Welcome to the Teahouse. Peer review is a different venue from Articles for Creation, so chances are you're trying to use a template that only works properly in the Talk: namespace; doing it in Draft talk: is probably what's giving you the error. If you are ready to re-submit the article for review, put {{subst:submit}} at the top of the draft page, not the draft's talk page. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 11:54, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Sources

 Courtesy link: Draft:Fight Crab

I made an article on a game, and it got turned down because it didn't have enough sources. It was on Fight Crab. My main source was actually playing the game, which is the best source, so what should I do? Flumph Grump (talk) 11:48, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Flumph Grump: Welcome to the Teahouse. Articles need reliable, secondary sources to establish notability as Wikipedia defines it. Playing the game does not establish its notability and thus is not the best source. A glaring issue I see is that you're using a second-person perspective, which is in an inappropriate tone for Wikipedia. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 11:59, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

@Flumph Grump: Notability is not the only problem with "playing the game", it also violates WP:OR. The Tips of Apmh 12:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

sorry Flumph Grump (talk) 13:14, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I found more sources and went through to make it thrid-person (as in they/their/players) and removed the playing the game source. Thank you for your feedback, Tenryuu. Flumph Grump (talk) 13:24, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Notability matters

Hi Wikipedians! I'd like to have the thoughts of some experienced Wikipedians and tell me please about the article Draft: Lee Seung-joo if it requires the terms of notability or other things I should fix so I can review it. Thank you so much for your time! Yours - Fisforfenia (talk) 12:53, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

We're told: A lot of famous people were gathered and a lot of DJs played there, one of them was also Løren. [...] He also had a cameo appearance on the music video of "Lovesick Girls". Before participating in the music video, he also had interactions with the members and other appearances on camera. [...] He was, also, spotted at the Paris Fashion Week the same month, on Yves Saint Laurent's fashion show by Athony Vacarello. / On March 2022, the director of Dior Men's Jewelry, Yoon Ahn, opened a pop-up store of her own brand, Ambush, in Seoul, South Korea. On April of the same year, she uploaded photos on her personal Instagram account with her and some celebrities who had visited the store at the opening. Those celebrities were Løren, Jennie, G-Dragon, Jay Park and The Boyz. Being seen with a lot of famous people, being spotted somewhere, being in a photo uploaded to an Instagram account: none of this contributes to notability. Indeed, including this gossip magazine stuff sounds desperate ("Look, he hangs out with celebs, that means he must be a celeb too!") -- Hoary (talk) 13:23, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Can someone review my article?

Draft:Kalle Myllymaa. He's a professional ice hockey player from Finland. Kilaseell - Say something - 13:07, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Kilaseell, let me quote what I read at the top: "Review waiting, please be patient. / This may take 4 months or more, since drafts are reviewed in no specific order. There are 2,937 pending submissions waiting for review." -- Hoary (talk) 13:11, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

You expect me to know how to read? Kilaseell - Say something - 13:15, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

new page

how do i start a new page??????? Joshp44 (talk) 14:13, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

hi Joshp44 and welcome to the teahouse! please read Your first article. please note that wikipedia isn't the place to advertise yourself or your business, such things are not allowed here. if you want to make an article about them, it might be better to hold off first: there are many reasons why you might not want one. happy editing! 💜  melecie  talk - 14:21, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

User pages

What should i put in them? I can't think of anything :D -Kilaseell - Say something - 14:34, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

COI Edit request

Hi, I have been asked to update the page for the company I work for, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Face. I am completely new to editing Wikipedia (usually only responsible for updating content on the company's own site), so did not realise I wouldn't be able to make these changes myself due to a conflict of interest - until I published them, and they were promptly undone. Several other WP users reached out to me to explain the issues, and following their advice I have changed my username as appropriate and disclosed my affiliation with the company on my user page.

I am now looking at requesting the changes via the relevant Talk page, but was wondering if there is any way that I can submit the code that I had rewritten too, as I feel this would save a lot of time/repetition of work. I had made changes to several areas of the page; some simple text changes, others adding or removing citations and ensuring that all citations had been formatted in the same way. I believe the main issue was the promotional/branded tone of the rewritten introduction, so I have re-re-written that to be more objective (largely inline with what is already there). The other changes are factual (changes to leadership and ownership, number of stores etc).

I would be happy to write out a list of edit requests to summarise these changes, but thought it might be helpful to already have them done and ready to drop in, if approved? Thanks! LB at FatFace (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2022 (UTC)