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October 25

Deli meat (turkey breast) vs. ground turkey breast (packaged)

How is it that the former costs $7-10 a pound, while the latter, with no added salt as an option, can cost just over $2 a pound and seems to come sliced as well. 67.243.7.240 (talk) 02:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

The price (usually) depends on the quality of the meat that goes into the product. Who knows what goes into the ground meat? Dbfirs 07:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Ground meat often contain a bit of filler too to make it mechanically stable, and it can use other, cheaper cuts of meat to produce. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:50, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

It may contain mechanically separated meat.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Also the deli meat has been seasoned (probably marinated) and then cooked for hours; the ground meat is just flung into a grinder and ground up. Looie496 (talk) 22:26, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

How to open a bar/club in Australia?

How do you open or manage a bar or club in Australia? What are the steps, money, qualifications, licenses you need etc? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 10:04, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

A basic thing to know is that Australia is a federation of states, and alcohol/liquor licensing laws are a matter for each individual state. So, which state ? HiLo48 (talk) 10:08, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Victoria. --124.254.77.148 (talk) 10:18, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

OK. I certainly don't claim any particular expertise, but being familiar with names of local bodies, I can point you at this...

http://www.justice.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/DOJ+Internet/Home/Alcohol/

Let's know how you go. I could be your first customer! HiLo48 (talk) 10:37, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd suggest going to a local bookstore. When my wife started her own business, there were guides available which detailed what agencies she needed to file with and what forms needed to be filed. I would suspect that an author in Australia would have created something similar. Dismas|^(talk) 10:45, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

A very useful site: Business Victoria. Will give you the answers to pretty much everything you've asked, or tell you where to look. --jjron (talk) 13:03, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Ancient square holes

Drilling a square hole in a metal plate becomes an expensive operation if the corner radii are to be small. I don't think they can be reduced to zero. If the Antikythera mechanism is correctly dated, square holes were made about 150-100 BCE but how? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

You need only drill one, or perhaps four, holes, and then square it off with a file. Anyone hoping to hand-make anything clockwork would have to be very skilled with a file. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 10:37, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Depending on the character and thickness of the metal, you could also achieve a square hole with a punch, although (particularly for precision work) drill-and-file is more likely. In a modern workshop you could use a punch press, but that requires pressures that classical Greek workers couldn't really have developed. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 10:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, I can do these things but only because a tool shop sells me drills, files and punches made of tool steel which was hard to come by in ancient Greece.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:30, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know a lot about steel, tool steel or otherwise. But it seems that Wootz steel, Crucible steel, and other apparently high quality steels (for ancient times) were available in Greece around the time of the Antikythera mechanism. Certainly there was a high volume of trade between the Greek and Indian worlds at the time. Would this level of quality suffice? Pfly (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I'll bet they drilled a round hole and used a file to square it off. They would have used a file for the teeth of the gears anyway. Very painstaking work. APL (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps they used a mortiser. There are drills that drill square holes. 92.28.254.63 (talk) 12:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

buehler turboccraft litature

I viewed file no. buehler64009,jpg. I could not read the specifications shown as they were too blurry. Can I somehow get a larger or clearer picture, or have you email me the specs??? Thanks [email removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.101.88.60 (talk) 16:00, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I can't find that file in either wikipedia or wikicommons. Can you give us the exact file name you were looking at? Rojomoke (talk) 18:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

If the information is about a product of Bühler Motor in Germany, that corporation has a website at www.buehlermotor.com that includes contacts for information. Here are pictures of buehler turbocraftand a full description of one model. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:25, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

NCAA Football, LSU vs Georgia 2010

LSU at the end of the game scored. LSU (2010) lines up for a two point try after a touchdown. They try, but miss; but then the officals count the defenders and fine 13 defensive players on the field. They called it illegal substitution and award another try to LSU with ball now on the 1-1/2 yard line. LSU makes the two points and wins.

Do the rules require the referees to stop the play before the first try, or should they drop the flag and let the play go on, and then assess the penalty, ( if the offense wants it ), after the play, like they do with off-sides.  ? ?

R. D. O'Connor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.236.78 (talk) 17:10, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Looking online, it seems there is a bit of confusion over whether illegal substitution is a dead ball foul or a live ball foul. In that particular instance, however, the referees did not know that Georgia had 13 mean on the field until they reviewed the play, so in theory, it should have been illegal participation which is a 15 yard penalty. But, since it was on a 2 point conversion, it would be accessed as half the distance to the goal. Basically, it depends on when the refs see that there are more than 11 people on the field. If there is just one person running off the field and they didn't quite make it, the ref throws the flag, but lets the play go before they enforce the penalty, making it a live ball foul. Tex (talk) 17:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

LSU and Georgia don't play in the 2010 regular season (see here for LSU's schedule and here for Georgia's). Are you thinking about LSU vs Tennessee 2010 (recap here)? In that game there was a controversial last second illegal participation call that gave LSU a final chance to score the go-ahead touchdown. I don't think that in general coaches like to make any last-second intentional penalties just to get a look at the defensive scheme. Those kinds of things will tend to backfire more often than not. --- Medical geneticist (talk) 23:12, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

This is a tricky question. From my understanding, in the NCAA, if there are 12 men in the huddle, the refs are supposed to immediately blow the whistle and assess a 5-yard penalty for illegal substitution. However, if a team manages to start a play with 12 or more men on the field without the refs throwing a flag ahead of time, it is illegal participation, which is a 15-yard live-ball foul. Because the extra Tennessee players ran on the field right before the play started, the refs did not blow it dead ahead of time. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, it was Tennessee. I must have just said Georgia because the OP did. Tex (talk) 19:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Becoming an engineer in the UK

What are the differences between M.Eng and B.Eng? I know that M.Eng is a year longer and enough to become a chartered engineer without further education, but that omits everything about how things work in practice. My country's system isn't similar so I have no idea. --62.142.167.134 (talk) 18:48, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

One is graduate level (i.e. standard university degree level) and one is post-graduate (i.e. generally requires a degree to be able to take the course). The Master of engineering is 'higher' (scholarly speaking). As for what difference one of the other makes in practice i'm not sure - but a quick search of the jobs market for engineering should let you see how 'standard' a requirement one or the other (if either) is. ny156uk (talk) 20:33, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the MEng is a master's degree but not a postgraduate qualification (a complexity of the UK system). My advice is to aim for the MEng, because if you want to be an engineer, you want to be a chartered one. Even if you enrol first for the BEng you will probably want to take the further year for MEng. For more advice, ask the universities - they will be very happy to advise an international student. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

NCAA Football, LSU vs Giorgia 2010

Part II

Thank you Tex (talk) 17:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC) for your answer on the two point try. So if I am the coach for the defense on the extra point, then you set up to go for two, I would be smart to take 5 off and put in 6.

• If I get caught before the play starts I loose 1 1/2 yards but I got a sneak peak at your formation. Right ?
• If I do not get caught and the offense makes it anyhow; then so what ?
• If I do not get caught and we stop the 2 points; we win. !
• If the offense fails and then I get caught, well they get 1 1/2 yards and a second play. But we have had an almost free look and may have seen your secret play !

From now on I think I will play the 2 point conversion with twelve men ! See OU vs MU game 10-23-10 to see how GOOD it works for the defense. ! Solution : Drop the flag (like off-sides) let them play. then the penalty if needed. Even if the refrees saw the extra players on the field in the LSU game; I think the no-call, let-them-play is the best punishment for the Defense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.236.78 (talk) 22:53, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I've fixed your formatting above. I don't think your plan will work. Firstly, if you have 12 in the huddle, the refs are supposed to throw a flag within a few seconds of you breaking the huddle. If the refs allow the play to go on, you're essentially giving the offense two chances to convert -- the second from the 1.5-yard line. A better idea would be to call a timeout after the other team lines up. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:40, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Also you shouldn't assume that the play you got a look at is the one that will be run. From three yards out, most teams will pass; from one-and-a-half, the quarterback sneak is a viable option. Knowing that the QB sneak is coming is not a lot of help in stopping it, either. --Trovatore (talk) 07:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Malfunctioning smoke alarm

I've got a problem: the smoke alarm in my corridor is malfunctioning. It's old (it came with the house) and doesn't go cheep-cheep-cheep like the new white ones, but emits a loud, low BLAAARE at intervals, and it is the worst sound you could hear in the middle of the night, scaring the sh*t out of you. Pressing reset just makes it madder, and even though I had been up since 5 the previous day I immediately didn't feel like sleeping anymore that night. When I tried to remove it in the morning I found a nasty surprise: it was connected directly to the house's power supply, and obviously I don't want to cut the wire. My question is: why would it be malfunctioning? It is connected to the house power supply so it's not saying there's no battery. This was about 2 in the morning so no one had been showering or cooking for a few hours. Also, how can I disconnect it or disable it or remove it? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.78.167 (talk) 23:52, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Mine is connected to the mains and has a battery; the battery is there so the detector works during a power cut (and runs flat even though there isn't one). Open it and replace the battery - it's probably either a couple of AAs or a single 9V PP3. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 00:02, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Smoke detectors do not last forever. Airborne contaminants build up in the ionization chamber making it more likely to go off accidentally. Supposedly the electronic componants can also become less reliable. (Contrary to popular belief nuclear decay is not a major factor in smoke detector aging. AM has a half-life of centuries. )

You're supposed to replace them every 10 years. I'm afraid I don't know how to disconnect it from the mains, though. You might consider asking at a hardware store (When you buy the replacement!). APL (talk) 03:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

What Finlay says: Replace the back-up battery. Make sure all the mains connectors are secure before replacing the unit, otherwise the battery will continue to drain. Mine has a faint but steady green light on the underside to indicate it's working properly. If that doesn't work replace the whole unit.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:26, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If it's older than ten years (and it sounds like it is) you should replace it regardless of whether or not you can figure out a way to shut it up. The light just indicates that the thing is active, it doesn't necessarily indicate that it will successfully detect a fire. APL (talk) 15:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Ditto all the above. FWIW, I've had better luck with mine since I started giving them regular passes with the vacuum cleaner. Matt Deres (talk) 13:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't have a backup battery: I opened it up and checked :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.78.167 (talk) 23:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

In the UK ,the fire brigade will usually help with them as they like them to be working correctly.Hotclaws (talk) 23:57, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

October 26

Doubtful paramedic story

Hello my uncle is a paramedic and recently told me a story that I very much doubt. He was telling me that recently he had responded to a call and upon arriving at the house and being let in by a hysterical wife he found someone on the ground bleeding profusly, after bringing him to the ambulence the man started to cough out his a large amount of blood and some organ or something. I dont remember what he told me it was that affected this poor gentleman but I would like some help proving or disproving this story, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beenrunman (talk • contribs) 01:16, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Would it not have been some form of clotted blood, rather than an organ? Dbfirs 07:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Coughing is a process that involves the lungs and associated airways. Coughing is a reflex or concious action to clear the airways of an obstruction or irritation. The lungs, bronchi, trachea and pharynx are a self-contained system that do not have or give access to any other organ system - except at the throat where it shares a common orifice with the digestive system. Clearly it is not possible for another organ to enter the lungs from below (so to speak) so it is difficult to see how any other organ could have been coughed out. It is not unknown for people who have a serious distressing cough to vomit as they strain to cough. Something vomited may have added to the idea that an organ was vomited. Finally I wonder what organ would or could be coughed out (if it were remotely possible) that did not cause a serious problem to the person. In my experience there are certain professions who have a fund of interesting stories with which to impress the awed listener. Interestingly there has been a report in southern England recently about the fallibility of the medical emergency services.[1] Richard Avery (talk) 07:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Your uncle would seem to be the person in the best position to give you the full details.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I've heard this one before. What happened is that the patient either vomited or coughed up a blood clot. Sometimes a large clot will look like liver. Gross I know, but there you go. It's my experience that paramedics will keep a stock of these stories as Richard says, and will embellish them to suit the (usually gullible) audience. --TammyMoet (talk) 11:03, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

He told me today that it wasnt a bloodclot and that it was a kidney so I dont know if its true —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beenrunman (talk • contribs) 16:51, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

As mentioned above, there's really no process by which a kidney could find its way either into the lungs, or into the digestive system and be coughed or vomited up. He is most definitely adding horrible details that he hopes you'll believe. ~ mazca ^talk 17:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Concur with Mazca, this is utter rubbish. He is behaving unprofessionally and displaying a frightening level of ignorance - and you should tell him!! Richard Avery (talk) 17:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like the guy was coughing up a lung. Of course, coughing up a lung is just an expression for coughing uncontrollably. Googlemeister (talk) 18:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Unusual Rarity for Populous DS

Populous DS is only two years old yet it can't be found at many retail outlets in the United States. Why? Is it because the game was only given a very limited production run? --Arima (talk) 03:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it just didn't sell very well. Two years would be long enough that most "box stores" like Best Buy would have phased it out unless it was popular. Gamestop dot com has it on sale for $15 new and $7 used. $15 is pretty cheap, even with shipping. APL (talk) 04:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah. Thanks, APL. I'm VERY glad to hear that it's still available online and at such a low price. --Arima (talk) 04:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Populous III world shape

The above question led me to read Populous:_The_Beginning, where I learn that the planet "is actually a real projective plane rather than a usual sphere". What shape is this, in practice? Apparently "The projective plane cannot be embedded in three-dimensional space. However, it can be immersed..." and Boy's surface is an example of this. Boy's surface looks like a horribly mutated cochlea. I'm fairly certain the planet-shape in Populous III can't be that complicated. 81.131.18.104 (talk) 09:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The projective plane doesn't have to look that complicated. It only looks that strange when you try to immerse it in three-space. It's actually fairly easy to picture, without that requirement; it looks something like this:

   ------->>>---------
   |                 |
   |                 |
   v                 ^
   v                 ^
   v                 ^
   |                 |
   |                 |
   ------<<<---------

where you fold this thing up in such a way that the edges on opposite sides are glued together, with the directions of the arrows matching. Of course you can't do that in ordinary physical space, but that's not important right now. --Trovatore (talk) 09:38, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, OK. So that's just a particular kind of wrapping-around. If it wasn't for the arrows thing it would result in what I think Civilization II called a "doughnut world"; and it's easy enough to incorporate the arrows into that concept. This would be fine for a 2D map, but the Populous game apparently models this planet in 3D, and even "allows the player to zoom out to see the entire world." There is a picture of this on the article: it looks round. I guess that's some kind of cheat, where a section of the map is projected onto a sphere? This only raises further problems, because projecting a flat surface onto a sphere (or hemisphere) causes severe distortion. Perhaps what's actually visible in zoomed-out view is not even a hemisphere, just a slight dome? 81.131.18.104 (talk) 09:57, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I think an easier model of the real projective plane is the surface of a sphere with opposite (antipodal) points identified. But, from what Bavi H said below, they're probably using the usual torus viewed through a fisheye lens. -- BenRG (talk) 08:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

1) Is "identified" maths-speak for "the same"? 2) Based on Trovatore's description, I was imagining a square Möbius strip which is twisted and joined (impossibly) in both directions (N-S and E-W) at the same time. That's quite fun to imagine, but is it correct? 213.122.44.239 (talk) 08:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

1) Yes; 2) Yes. :-) -- BenRG (talk) 09:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I found a world editor for Populous: The Beginning. It looks like each world's map is really just a square with normal wrap-around (a torus). The world editor shows a square overview map in the bottom corner. As you move, the square overview map wraps normally. In the main view, a small area of the underlying square map is made to look like a sphere. If I turn on the editor's grid, I can sort of see it's a dome-like view of a small portion of the square map. However, the world editor doesn't let you zoom out, so I don't understand how the zoomed out sphere works. You can find several gameplay videos on YouTube. Here's one that shows the zoomed-out sphere rotating. I can't quite pinpoint why, but it doesn't quite look like a real sphere should when it rotates. --Bavi H (talk) 05:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I think there isn't enough foreshortening at the edges of the map. It looks like they took a circular portion of the world and mapped it onto something with a little curvature, not a sphere. It feels kind of like looking at the map through a porthole. Paul (Stansifer) 00:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

12volt 110amp Liesure battery

Can anyone tell me why I can not use a car battery for a caravan in place of a liesure battery —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.73.134 (talk) 11:11, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Lead-acid batteries come in two designs. High-current and deep-discharge. A high-current battery can regularly withstand drains of 100amps (for a few seconds) without the plates buckling from the heat. A deep-discharge battery can withstand being fully discharged regularly without being damaged. A car battery is the former; they should never be allowed to go flat. CS Miller (talk) 11:47, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

... so the answer is that you could use the car battery, but you risk damaging it or at least shortening its life if you regularly allow it to discharge more than about half-way before recharging. Dbfirs 17:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

For confirmation about MAQ Oil & Gas company

Dear Sir,

Recently, I have received an contract agreement and an offer letter from MAQ Oil & Gas company. They had offer me 8000 US$ for the position of Civil Engineer. I would just like to know if this is fake.

Our Ref: MGASIA09542 Office Address: MAQ Oil & Gas (U.K.) Ltd. London Square, Cross Lanes Guildford, Surrey GU1 1UJ Phone: 44(0) 7031744579 Fax: 44(0) 709745607 Email: info@maqoils.com Website: www. maqoils.com

Thank you very much.,

Felovic Leal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.98.123.19 (talk) 15:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

See the response to this kind of thing from MAQoils themselves [2], this is probably attempted fraud. Mikenorton (talk) 15:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Confusing that they quote two different URLs as the only valid domain.

"genuine correspondence from MAQ Oil & Gas originates from an maqoils.com domain"

"All our emails and internet pages are hosted via MAQ Oil & Gas.com. "

Rojomoke (talk) 17:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

knuckle popping

in some comics, I see characters who appear to clench their fingers without completing the fist, which appears to pop their knuckles. just out of curiosity, is that physically possible in real life? or are they doing some different? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.241.18.130 (talk) 16:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I've known people that could do that. They could crack their knuckles just by tensing the muscles in their fingers. I'm not sure why you would want to, but apparently once you acquire the talent you're compelled to do it all the time. APL (talk) 16:09, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If I half-clench my hand as if I was holding an apple-sized object, then deliberately tense all the muscles in it while slowly straightening out my fingers, I can definitely get a few of the finger joints to pop. They're very quiet but I'm sure someone with less squidgy knuckles than me could make a nice unpleasant sound. ~ mazca ^talk 17:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If I've been working my hands hard all day, mine do. Otherwise no. Alansplodge (talk) 21:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

We have an article on Cracking joints which might be of use Zoonoses (talk) 20:37, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

A trio of questions about Katherine Philips...

Yesterday, I've stumbled upon the article of King Charles I and I read the section of it about his execution.I've read that several poets had written poems to express their displeasure of the execution. One of them that caught my attention was Katherine Philips' "Upon the Double Murder of King Charles". I've read the poem, and from my looking up a bit of information, I had three questions on my mind about Katherine Philips:

1. Why did Katherine Philips refer to the execution as a "double murder" in the poem?

2. I've read on a site that Katherine compared the execution to a lion being attacked by a group of donkeys, and it showed the esteem in which she held the King. How deep is Katherine's esteem for King Charles?

3. I've read in the article of King Charles that Katherine questioned the human race over the execution. I've read on another site that "Philips has a sense of foreboding that if men are willing to overthrow their king how far will they go in an attempt to change things for the better. Philip’s hints that men might be willing to overthrow their own religion should such revolutionary fervour continue." About this, had Katherine actually had her faith in humanity shaken, and what event had made her believe in humanity in a positive tone again?

I want thoroughly explained answers so I could understand. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about the poem Upon the Double Murder of King Charles. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:17, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If you read the article Charles I of England, did it not answer your 1st question in In her poem, Phillips describes the "double murder" of the king; the execution of his life as well as the execution of his dignity. ? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh...I forgot about that line in the article. My bad. ^_^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 13:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

There may not be enough sources extant documenting her personal thoughts to answer those questions, but my advice is that you read some of the literature mentioned in the article Katherine Philips. Because if there are they will surely be covered there. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:02, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

paternity leave

If I make lots of women pregnant, is there a limit on how much paternity leave I could be granted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.8.232 (talk) 20:00, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

That is going to depend greatly on what country you are in. Googlemeister (talk) 21:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Good luck with the Child support. APL (talk) 21:35, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Does Paternity leave#Europe currently imply that Austria grants 1 - 3 years of paid paternity leave? -- 124.157.254.112 (talk) 22:05, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

And that would be odd because...? To the OP: I don't think it works that way. As Nil points out, the leave is, I imagine, meant for either one or the other parent (I think the first two or three weeks may be an exception) so good luck convincing all those lucky ladies to give up their time with their newborns so you can lay back and enjoy the, ehm, fruits of your labor. Also, I believe it's also connected to the age of the child - you can't decide when the kid is 15 years old that you'd now like to take that paternity leave you never used up - so, if we consider your scenario, you'd have a fairly narrow window of time to use it up. In any case, two points: firstly, you'd have to tell us where you are for a more definite answer, and secondly, sheesh, that really is a grossly self-centered way to think, isn't it? TomorrowTime (talk) 07:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

My impression is in many countries only one parent can take the leave at a time. I don't know how it's divided if there is disagreement, I presume it may depend on a custody agreement. Nil Einne (talk) 23:20, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

In the U.S., paternity leave is covered by the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993, for which childbirth is a protected reason for taking leave. For certain types of employment, a father has the same rights as a mother to take a limited amount of unpaid leave as part of his FMLA rights; basically his employer must "hold" his job for him, though he is not required to pay him. --Jayron32 07:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

In the UK: "employees are entitled to take one or two weeks' paternity leave (paid at a statutory rate) which can start at any time after the baby is born or on a particular date after the first day of the week in which the baby is expected. However, paternity leave must usually finish within 56 days of the baby's birth. Regardless of how long is taken, statutory paternity leave must be taken as one continuous block and cannot be split up into odd days. It can be claimed by: "The biological father of the child, the husband or partner of the child's mother, one who is adopting the child, or the husband or partner of the child's adopter" but must be spent caring for the child (so you couldn't go off on holiday without the baby)[3]. Alansplodge (talk) 20:56, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

October 27

Multiple questions, 2 main subjetcs, Thanks

I have been watching Cheers, and some how have managed to make it to season 5. 1. Who is the actress that plays Loretta Tortelli, the blond wife of Nick Tortelli the ex husband of Carla Tortelli the barmaid? Loretta seems to be the only woman in the show that is even vaguely appealing physically. Which leads directly to 2. When looking at the clothes the women are wearing, men to but specifically the women, and looking at their haircuts and general fashion sense, I am appalled! I realise that Cheers is a comedy, all be it a very poor one (it has not stood the test of time at all!!) But were the female characters dressed so ridiculously on purpose or was this really the fashion in the 80's? They look terrible! In one scene, Diane Chambers is actually wearing a sailor suit, the type seen on small boys in black and white photos from the 1900's. What was society in general thinking?! Or was this all part of some lame joke by the writers of this dross? I have not seen a single woman in 5 seasons besides Loretta Tortelli, who I can even imagine as beautiful. 3.Has the perception of beauty really changed that much since then? Even the hot babes that Sam Malone is supposed to pick up, are rarley more than not very ugly. 4.How could Cheers have been so popular? There is zero character development. I am on season 5, that right, 5 years and the same storyline is still going on, will Diane and Sam fall in love, there is no imagination at all! The writers were stuck in some sort of time loop, doing the same thing over and over and over again. The only saving grace is Norman Peterson who incidentally is one of the few actors I have never seen in anything else. 5. How can that be explained? The best character, and best actor, Kelsey Grammar not included, never went anywhere with his career? 6. While watching this crap, I started to think about just that. Sorry to change the subject but... I remembered learning in school about the life cycle of the tape worm and how it emerges from the anus and lays its eggs around the rectum. It may not have been the tapeworm, upon reflection but it was some sort of human dwelling worm, and the following has bothered me ever since. One end is attached to the lining of the intestines, while the other is reaching out to the rectum to lay its eggs, would it be possible, and or feasible to, for want of a better term, to catch it in the act, and pull it out of your bum, if indeed this is possible, would it be advisable? Would it tear the intestinal wall? Sorry if this seems like I am trolling, but I would really like an answer to these questions, they have been bothering me for some time, and where should one turn to get answers to well nigh unanswerable questions such as these if not to you good people on the reference desk. Thank you wholeheartedly.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.145 (talk) 00:37, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

First, your first question is answered in the article you linked to, Loretta Tortelli. Second, the humor of the show wasn't derived from comical outfits (well, maybe a joke or two in the entire run of the show, I don't remember every episode by heart), so yes, it is how people dressed in the 80s. And finally, it was funny to many people. Just because it's not funny to you doesn't mean that others didn't find it so. It's a matter of taste which, no offense, you don't seem to agree with.

Oh, and your tape worm question really belongs at the Science Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 01:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Regarding 1980's fashion, see the Wikipedia article 1980s in fashion. On a purely WP:OR basis, having lived through the entirety of the 1980's, and with family pictures to prove it, the hairstyles and fashions on Cheers were pretty accurate. --Jayron32 04:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Your intestinal worm query can be answered by reading tapeworm and enterobiasis which deals with the two most common intestinal worm infections in Watford. Caesar's Daddy (talk) 07:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Norm, George Wendt did have his own tv show where he was effectively Norm. It didn't make it, and was axed after 6 episodes. The character also turned up in all the other Cheers spin-offs. -- WORMMЯOW  10:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I recall some TV discussion around the time of the death of Norman Wisdom, to the effect that comedy does not age well. His shtick, apparently popular enough in its day, does not resonate today. The first couple of paragraphs in Cheers set out the extent of its success. It is unlikely that a completely unfunny TV comedy would have had the life it had nor the plaudits. Perhaps, looking for the wrong thing, you're missing whatever in it is funny. Still, kudos for persevering. Only six more years of it to go. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:49, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

That's sadly true. When I was a kid, my parents took us kids to the drive-in one night to see The Square Peg, and I can still remember the streams of tears of laughter we all shed. What a hoot! It was one of the classic "funny movie" memories of my childhood. It came on TV about a year ago, and I carefully scheduled it into my diary, to relive that memory and have some good old belly laughs again. I even made sure my partner would be watching, as these things are twice as good when shared. But what a disappointment! I could only raise a few mild smirks now. Either the film had changed or I had. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 05:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

south china mall

it says it is currently the largest shopping mall in the world by total floor area. however i loked at it on google earth and otherskestches of what the entire building looks like...it's not A building but several as it appears...my opinion but this does not make it even the top ten largest malls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwking (talk • contribs) 04:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing your opinion. --Jayron32 04:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Jwking, this would've been better asked at the article talkpage, but if you look at the New South China Mall article, the sentence in question "China is the largest mall in the world based on gross leasable area, and ranked second in total area to the Dubai Mall.[2]" has a little number inside brackets on the end of it. Clicking on that number will show you the source for the information in the sentence, which in this case is http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/09/malls-worlds-largest-biz-cx_tvr_0109malls_slide_2.html. If you don't think the information in the article is accurate or that the source of the information is reputable enough, post on the article talk page Talk:New_South_China_Mall asking for additional sources proving the information in the sentence. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Shopping_Centers and Wikipedia:WikiProject China might also be good places to ask for more information. Exxolon (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Could the buildings be connected underground? Googlemeister (talk) 14:09, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Better Google searcher help

I want to browse sites that sell desserts for shipping online in the U.S. I have tried a bunch of Google searches but they aren't really zeroing in. I tried "online desserts" and "order online" cookies cakes pastries, and some others but I'm either being too exclusive or too broad, getting only a few results, or way too many that are not online retailers at all. Can anyone give me a search term that will find pretty much only a wide variety of online merchants who will ship desserts?--141.155.156.196 (talk) 05:28, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

When I type "order desserts online", about 70-80% of the hits on the first page are websites where I can order sweets (cookies, cakes, pastries, etc.) online and have them delivered to my house. Is that what you are looking for? --Jayron32 05:56, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

multiple (noble) peerages of different ranks

How, exactly, does peerage rank and succession work when an individual has multiple titles of different ranks? What is the benefit to a state for one person to hold both titles / ranks?

For instance, if someone was both the Duke of X and the Count of Y. I would assume that they would be referred to as "Your Grace / Lord" (indicating the title of Duke). Does their first son assume the title of Duke and second the title of Count? Does the first son inherit both titles?

How was one titled with multiple peerages and, other than the land, what are the benefits to the individual? It seems as though you would always want to be addressed with the highest title / rank / peerage, yes?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by LordBright (talk • contribs) 05:56, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It depends entirely on which countries system you were working under. The peerage system of the U.K. opperates differently than did the (former) systems in place in places like France and Germany, for example. In the U.K., heirs of the titleholder are often granted lesser titles (subsidiary titles) under the main title. Sometimes, this can be a lesser, but seperate title, for example if someone is the Duke of Flabonia and the Earl of Stankonia, one may grant their son the title of "Earl of Stankonia" as a "courtesy title". The son is not actually the Earl, and has none of the rights associated with the Earldom of Stankonia, those rights are still reserved to the father, but the son is granted the title merely as a "courtesy", usually to indicated the "heir apparent" to the family estates, much as the heir apparent to the Monarch is the Prince of Wales. See Courtesy titles in the United Kingdom. --Jayron32 06:07, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

In the UK (and constituent countries prior to the Union of the Crowns), one is always addressed by one's highest title. Well, almost always; Camilla is referred to as the Duchess of Cornwall, despite being entitled to Princess of Wales, for reasons of public relations. To answer your question re: first and second sons: no, all the titles are inherited by the oldest son (in the case of the original grant stipulating 'heirs of the body male') or oldest child (in the case of 'heirs of the body') upon the death of the title holder. To use a current example: Prince Philip has the titles Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth, Baron Greenwich. He is only known by the highest title. As his heir, Prince Charles has since birth been allowed to use the courtesy title Earl of Merioneth. As his heir, Prince William may use the courtesy title Baron Greenwich. (Neither of them do, of course, having somewhat higher titles in their own right from their mother, an unusual situation occurring only because she is The Queen). Andrew and Edward, Charles' brothers, get nothing; nor does Prince Harry. Upon Philip's death, Charles (or William if Charles dies first) will inherit all three titles, which then gives William the courtesy title Earl of Merioneth. Upon Charles' presumed accession to the throne, all these titles will 'merge with the Crown' and disappear, though apparently there is a plan to re-create Duke of Edinburgh as a title for either Andrew or Edward, can't remember which.

In terms of benefits to the individual, these days they are few. Titles give one a place in the order of precedence, and some titles bear with them certain responsibilities, for example Duke of Norfolk as Earl Marshal. In the UK, some titles allow one a greater familiarity with the Sovereign; I can't remember the details but I believe ducal titles allow one to kiss the Sovereign on the cheek. The Duke of Cornwall (always the Heir Apparent of the Sovereign) inherits the Duchy of Cornwall, a large collection of land ownership and business interests. There are some other rights that go along with titles, generally revolving around duties at the coronation of a new monarch. → ROUX ₪ 07:51, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

This article may also be of use. → ROUX ₪ 09:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Sibling as offspring

My friend has odd feelings towards her younger sister - she feels like as if her sister was her daughter. When I asked her why she acts this way, she couldn't explain anything but that she wants her sister to be her daughter. Is such behavior normal and/or accepted in the community? The friend is 21 y/o, and her sister is 5 or 6. 195.158.7.82 (talk) 06:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It would not be unusual for siblings with wide differences in ages to have a different relationship than those which are close in age. personal experience here, but my nextdoor neighbor had a "half uncle" who was younger than he was, and who he treated like a cousin. He called him his "uncle", but we all hung out together in the same peer group. A similar situation exists between real life uncle-nephew Charlie Benante and Frank Bello. Benante is Bello's uncle, but is only 2 years older, so their relationship is much different than a standard uncle/nephew relationship. In families where both parents die, the oldest siblings often takes a parental role in raising the younger siblings (see the fictionalized Party of Five, for an example, though there are also real-world examples as well). --Jayron32 07:18, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

There is a fair body of work done on the parentification of older siblings, which is fairly normal with this sort of age gap. It's also relatively common with smaller age gaps, although it can sometimes reflect a lack of adult care (if, for example, a 9 year old feels responsible for the parental care of a 5 year old, beyond the usual). It's quite common for the teenaged and adult members of an extended family or community to all be responsible for raising the children, with the older children given some limited responsibility for the younger: it's a useful system that ensures plenty of care for the young, as well as teaching people how to look after babies and children. At 21, your friend is an adult looking after a small child, possibly she has even been the child's main carer?It's normal to feel parental responsibility in that situation, particularly if you don't have any experience of extended family providing similar care (and thus 'parent' is your only point of reference for this sort of care). 86.162.69.141 (talk) 13:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Just to play devil's advocate, but it's possible that at 21 and 5 or 6 that you friend's younger 'sister' is in fact her daughter who is being raised by your friend's parents as their daughter/her sister. This is not uncommon with teenage pregnancies (though less common than it used to be with generally more accepting attitudes in many societies these days). Your friend's revelations to you of her feelings may actually be a veiled attempt to convey this information to you. --jjron (talk) 14:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

One famous example. Matt Deres (talk) 17:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Genetically, she is as equally invested in her sibling (50%) as she would be in a child. -- ToE^T 22:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

DEVELOPMENT OF UGANDA'S ECONOMY

The usefulness of projects to the development of uganda's economy —Preceding unsigned comment added by KENNEDY NEWTON (talk • contribs) 09:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

And your question is...? TomorrowTime (talk) 11:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Mattopaedia ^{Say G'Day!} 11:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's a homework question, since the editor created a page called Talk:List usefulness of projects to the development of uganda's economy (which I have deleted). I think the editor wants ideas for things to go in an article. Looie496 (talk) 16:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

October 28

How can an "unincorporated association" function?

The National Football League describes itself as an "unincorporated association." Yet as we know, the NFL does lots of things: It negotiates television contracts, licenses products, negotiates contracts with the players' labor union, fines players and coaches, runs a website and a TV network, etc.

Some of this seems to be done through separate entities such as NFL Properties Inc. and NFL Enterprises LLC. Yet I'm still surprised the NFL itself can function if it has no official corporate existence. How is this possible? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:18, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if this helps, but this document is supposedly "about how the NFL is governed in our Constitution and Bylaws". Pfly (talk) 01:38, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

There are several ways in which the NFL is a sui generis organization. First, there are several pieces of legislation which give the NFL specifically unique rights. It has a federal antitrust exemption, which allows it to operate its market as a "trust" or monopoly would, but it is specifically allowed to exist as a monopoly because of how it is organized. Its TV broadcast rights are governed by the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, which among other things, allows the NFL to negotiate exclusive broadcasting rights with networks. This exemption to antitrust laws also places restrictions on the NFL, for example it cannot compete directly with high school and college football, and is practically prohibited from scheduling games on Friday and Saturday night (the legislation only says that it cannot televise any game which is being played with 75 miles of a college or high school game. Except for some very remote places, nearly all of the U.S. is within 75 miles of a college or high school game on fridays and saturdays.) The NFL is specifically organized as a non-profit organization, which allows it to avoid these antitrust complications. It is a 501(c) organization, which is why all of the profit-making arms of the league are run as independent ventures. The league itself operates basically as an organizing body. It maintains the rules, organizes the playing schedule for the teams, organizes the player draft, sets ownership rules. The teams themselves are independent for-profit companies; they are called franchises specifically because they are run like a fast-food franchise. See Professional sports league organization for a basic overview of how it works in the NFL. Another article which is enlightening on the way the NFL is organized is the National Football League Players Association article; see the section 1987 strike and decertification for the effect of the antitrust exemption on labor relations, and the article and section United_States_Football_League#USFL_v._NFL_lawsuit is also enlightening on the special status the NFL has in the American sports business climate. --Jayron32 03:43, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

More simply, "unincorporated" specifically means "not incorporated". It doesn't mean "not a company". Many companies are not incorporated; in the US, the 3 most popular types under the usual classification are LLCs, sole proprietorships, and partnerships. To extend Jayron32's list of the unusual characteristics of the NFL, in the Supreme Court opinion American Needle v. NFL, the NFL itself claimed it was a "single entity", in antitrust jargon, and was hence incapable of colluding to restrain trade in the field of licensed headwear; the Supreme Court unanimously disagreed and ruled that, functionally, the separate NFL teams compete with each other for fans, players, etc., and that they were therefore to be considered separate entities for this purpose, and could be challenged under the Sherman Act (the NFL's limited protection against the Sherman Act doesn't extend to this matter). Though the opinion noted that the NFL's profits from licensed merchandise are usually shared equally among all the teams. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:17, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Comet Tuttle's second statement is true in the US, but not everywhere. In the UK 'not incorporated' does mean 'not a company'. I realise that the question relates to the US, but I am concerned with the apparent generality of the statement. --ColinFine (talk) 23:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Chicken catch-a-Tory

There is no page regarding the history, origin, meaning of; nor the recipe for, the food "chicken catch-a-tory".

There is a Wiki comment suggesting "chicken catch-a-tory" is politically in-correct (below is the quote):

"You just need to balance your food recommendations to insult all POVs equally, might I suggest a nice chicken catch-a-Tory ? StuRat 01:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)"

The name of the dish (food) 'Chicken catch-a-Tory' is colorful, and must have a rich history in its imagery: a Tory being chased and caught by a chicken.

Can anyone find a word origin (who created the phrase, the recipe, and why) beyond those found on the Tory, Talk:Tory, and the Tory disambiguation page?

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.17.97.170 (talk) 01:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Er, cacciatore? Haus^Talk 01:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

There's this very dubious Revolutionary War story. Might I suggest fava beans as a side dish? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, obviously Chicken cacciatore. The "catch-a-Tory" just being a phonetic play on words. --jjron (talk) 13:24, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Or a mondegreen. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 23:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

It is a mnemonic for a word Cacciatore (English pronunciation: /ˌkɑːtʃ.ə.ˈtɔɹ.i/ ) whose pronunciation is not apparent to English speakers from its spelling in Italian. The mnemonic is only an approximation to the pronunciation catchy-ah-t-o-ry. Since it crosses languages it is more correctly called a Soramimi than a Mondegreen.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:01, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Not catchy-ah-t-o-ry, Cuddlyable, just catch-ah-t-o-ry. The i softens the cc from /k/ to /ch/ but is not pronounced itself. Just as Giovanni is /jo-vah-nee/, not /jee-o-vah-nee/. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Dream point of view

I'm just starting Julian Jaynes' book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (that really needs its own article). The first section talks about various definitions of what consciousness is and what it isn't and he talks for a bit about dreams. While it's a relatively minor point in his argument, he states fairly baldly that people never experience dreams from their own point of view, but rather always view themselves externally, almost like an audience watching an actor. Speaking for myself, while I can recall dreams that were like that, many of them seem to be from my own perspective - call it half and half, maybe. My question basically boils down to: "Is it true that most people experience dreams from an audience's perspective?" and, to follow up, "Has anyone theorized as to why that might be?" I've done some Googling, but terms like "perspective" and "point of view" give me hits regarding someone or something's "perspectives about dreams" or similar. Matt Deres (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Can you quote exactly what he says on that point? WikiDao ☯ (talk) 03:19, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Also what was the sample size of people he asked about what perspective they dream in. for something like that I imagine a rather large group would be needed to get an accurate result. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.167.165.2 (talk) 06:19, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think I ever saw a dream as an observer, always first person perspective. Or maybe I'm just weird. TomorrowTime (talk) 06:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I think the general point is a bit of a truism in certain circles: The moment you become aware of a dream you actually aware of observing a dream, and as such you can't help but see yourself in the dream in a 3rd person context. This leads back to the concept of consciousness as the observer: consciousness is the one thing that you cannot ever observe from an external perspective, and everything that you can observe from an external perspective is not consciousness. Buddhist and Hindu monks talk about that a lot. --Ludwigs2 07:37, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

If TomorrowTime is weird (on which point I shall remain diplomatically neutral) then my similar OR suggests I am too. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 09:51, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

For what it's worth, my experience is the same as Matt Deres's. I'm sometimes a participant and sometimes a spectator, often changing back and forth within the same narrative. I think I'm a participant more often. I can't remember ever watching myself; if I'm a spectator, then I'm not in the dream. Even if I'm a participant, I'm often not myself and there's no surrogate for myself in the dream. What I find most mysterious about dreams, though, is why anybody would care what Jaynes thinks about them. I don't care what Fritjof Capra has to say about physics. -- BenRG (talk) 11:26, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I guess I'll add my data-point here as a first-person dreamer, too. It's possible Jaynes' point is more "subtle," though, which is why I wondered what exactly he said about it (I had a copy of that book myself, once, and read most of it, too, but I haven't seen it in a while and don't remember the part about dreams. As I recall, though, his more general argument and conclusion about the "origin of consciousness" were not overwhelmingly persuasive...). WikiDao ☯ (talk) 16:46, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I have never had a dream (that I remember) of viewing myself from some sort of 3rd person view. 82.44.55.25 (talk) 17:16, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

28 oz can = ?

Resolved

I'm reading some recipes from US sites. One refers to a '28 oz can' of tomatoes. What is this in metric? Google gives me about 800 g or ml depending on whether it treats it as fluid ounces or no, which seems awfully large to me. A standard tin here would be maybe half that - I've only seen tins that large for soup, or in places like Costco. Thanks! 131.111.255.9 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC).

There's one here[4]. You can just about make out 793g on the label. It would be considered a catering-sized can in the UK (I'm guessing you're writing from Blighty). You might try an "ethnic" shop - my local Turkish supermarket[5] sells tomatoes and tomato paste in huge containers at knock-down prices. Alansplodge (talk) 11:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any reason why you would need such a large tin. Either adjust the recipe or use two tins. Of course you need to be sure of the size first. And if the price is cheaper in a Turkish shop or whatever so it might still be worth it. Nil Einne (talk) 12:05, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, two tins would be a very sensible work-around. What was I thinking? Alansplodge (talk) 18:08, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

This is not an uncommon size in regular markets in the US... it costs about $2. For various Italian dishes I have often purchased said cans for my wife. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Ounce. 1 ounce (28 g). Therefore 28 oz ≈ 28 x 28 ≈ 784 g (to be more precise: 28 ounces (790 g)). A Fluid ounce is about 28 ml so would give about the same conversion. So yes, Google is correct, which is not to say the recipe itself isn't incorrect. But then you also don't say what the recipe is for or for how many people - 800g may not be that big at all, especially considering the water volume in that can. --jjron (talk) 13:21, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Or what you do with the tomatoes. Usually when we get a can of them we end up squishing them down, draining them, cooking them into a sauce, or something. It ends up being a lot less tomato that you'd expect from the outside of the can. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

On reflection, I would probably use two 400g tins for 4 servings (which is what this is), but I'm very much a 'cook by numbers' cook so wanted a sanity check. Thanks, all! 131.111.255.9 (talk) 17:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Just by the way, I have here a 28-ounce can of diced tomatoes. The label actually reads "796 mL, 28 fl oz / oz liq", from which you can tell (1) that it means fluid ounces and (2) that it was bought in Canada. The can is almost exactly 10 cm in diameter and just under 12 cm high including the flanges, or maybe 11 cm from the top lid to the bottom, so the real volume inside would be about 860 ml, but presumably the measurement given is for the contents. --Anonymous, 00:57 UTC, October 29, 2010.

College application

I took precalculus early and over the past two years I've accumulated (through outside study) a strong grasp of calculus. Next year will be my junior year, and I will be expected to enter calculus and in my senior year Math Topics (a course not connected with Calculus), the highest level offered at my high school. However the math department chair at my school (after several interviews and assessments) has told me that with what I know now I could easily test out of calculus and enter Topics junior year, then take a college level math (at no expense to myself) at my high school's associated college (which I do not plan to attend for "real" college). My problem is, when applying to colleges they will be asking for my mathematics history and expecting calculus either for admission or for placement. On the standard form you just list courses you have taken, so there's not really room to explain why I haven't taken calculus if I test out. On one hand, I waste a year in a class that's below my level, on the other, colleges might put me in an inferior course or don't take me at all because I don't "officially" have calculus. I'm discussing this with school counselors and stuff but I'd like an outside view: how will it be viewed by colleges if I test out of calculus, and how can I convey to them that I did so? In other words, what should I do? Thanks. 24.92.78.167 (talk) 18:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Assuming you are actually in the United States as your IP address suggests, then most colleges (from what I've heard) testing out of a class will earn you the equivalent credit for having taken that class (for testing out of a college class). As for testing out of a high school class, when I filled out an application to the University of Oklahoma a few weeks ago, they gave a spot where you could put your classes you have taken along with any notes (an open text box where you could add notes about a class in parenthesis) and when I filled out an application to the University of Kansas today, they just asked for the classes, but again put a spot where you could make any notes about the classes as necessary. It really depends on what college you intend to apply for, in the end, but most will either leave a spot for you to make notes about the classes you've taken or will go based off of your transcript, if not a combination of both. (I'll leave the questions about what to do and what the colleges would think of it to other editors, as I'm on the wrong side of college to know about such things very well). Ks0stm ^(T•C•G) 18:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't ever take a class as a mere formality, life is too short. If the picture you're giving is accurate, you probably intend to apply to a good college, and at a good college the people who evaluate you should see that you're well ahead of the game. I will add one point though: college-level calculus is usually a lot more intense than high school calculus. I was in a position a bit like yours, going to a local college my senior year because I had exhausted the resources of my high school -- I took calculus there even though I had already had it in high school, and was glad of it, because the class went at a much faster pace and covered a lot more material. Looie496 (talk) 19:42, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

There may be spaces to indicate college credits that you intend to transfer. Having college math credits already would be a good indication on an application. There are also AP tests which some colleges give credit for. Earning college credit in high school allows more room to add interesting classes into your schedule. Rmhermen (talk) 02:57, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Topographic map series codes and layout.

The Norwegian topographic maps 1:50.000 have a series code M711. Other map series have other codes [6][7][8]. So I'm not talking about the codes for the individual maps here, but for the series as a whole. Also, maps such as this one have the same layout as modern Norwegian topographic maps (like the grid zone designation and where it says "ISKANDER, USSR") and the International Map of the World. Is this just a US-military thing that happened to be adopted by the Norwegians (since their maps were started by the US military, I think) or is there an international standard for map series numbering and layout? --Gerrit ^CUTEDH 23:11, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

When I went to Norway in the 1970s, I was surprised that the 1:50,000 maps were marked "surveyed by the US Army" or words to that effect. It was a long time ago though. Alansplodge (talk) 08:49, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

My understanding is that the US Army went around after WWII and offered its surveying services to practically every country in the world, saying, "let us all get a universal mapping system here and we'll give you all of the maps of your own country you'd want." Specifically they used UTM. The Soviets did something similar as well, I think, with their own format. The underlying political goal is of course obvious: it was realized by the Cold War powers that you can't make good war plans without good, standardized maps. But they offered to do this basically everywhere. Anyway, I don't know if that helps you at all, but it would explain why most countries of the world have very similar formatted maps that credit the US Army on them. I'm not sure it is a true standard in the sense that everyone agreed that UTM is the only way to go, but I do think there was a "de facto standard" since the US was willing to pay for all of this for them. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:21, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Philip Pendleton Barbour

i was reading about phlip pendleton barbour. in the bio it was mentioned that both homes of the barbours (governor james barbour and philip pendleton barbour)were destroyed by fire. from my research governor james barbour home was the home that burned not philip pendleton barbour. can more info be given regarding that statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.201.255.5 (talk) 23:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I made the change. You could have too. This is the encyclopedia anyone can edit. We have an article on his house: Frascati (Somerset, Virginia). Rmhermen (talk) 02:50, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

October 29

LSU vs GEORGIA 2010 (TENN,)

NCAA RULES: 2 POINT AND 12 -13 ON FIELD. GEORGIA vs xxxxxxx 2010 FIRST: IT WAS TENN., NOT LSU. SORRY, I WAS WRONG. (RDO)

NEXT: IF YOU ARE OUT OF TIME OUTS, AND ONLY A FEW MINUTES LEFT IN THE GAME, THEN I MIGHT PUT 12 OR 13 IN TO BUY COACHING & STAFFING TIME. I MIGHT GET A HINT, OR A FREE PEEK ! YES IT IS 1 1/2 YARDS NOW, BUT I MAY GAIN INFO. TEAMS LIKE MU AND TEX TECH, ETC, THAT RUN THE "GUN" OR SPREAD, ARE OFTEN NOT GOOD AT Q.B. SNEAKS. SO, THE OFFENSE MAY NOT GET MUCH,(1-1/2yds); BUT LOOSE A LOT, SOME OF THEIR SURPRISE/TRICK PLAY ADVANTAGE. CONCLUSION: NOT A LOT TO LOOSE FOR THE DEFENSE. FIVE YARDS, 15 YARDS, 25 YARDS, PENALTIES IRRELEVANT HERE.

IN THE ABOVE (2PTs) EXAMPLE, MAY I SUGGEST A LOSS OF A TIME OUT (BECAUSE THEY GOT A FREE T.O.+ A TV TIME OUT): OR MARK OFF THE REMAINING 13 1/2 YARDS WHEN YOU SET UP THE KICK-OFF.

PREDICTION: MAKE THE ABOVE RULE CHANGE AND 12 OR 13 PLAYERS, 2 PT TRY INCIDENTS WILL ALMOST DISAPPEAR.!

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ANSWERS. END. RDO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.236.78 (talk) 00:44, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Please don't type in all capital letters. It's difficult to read and is interpreted as shouting. Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 04:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, despite reading your text several times, I can't understand what question you want to ask. Could you rephrase it in simpler terms, so we can see whether we can help answer it? Karenjc 10:57, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

After reading your question a few times, all I can gather is that you are suggesting that if either team is attempting a 2 point conversion and the game clock is running out of time, they can voluntarily commit a penalty by having too many players on the field to somehow stop the clock or save time? If you read the artcile Convert, you will learn that the game clock does not run during conversions, so the whole idea is not needed. 10draftsdeep (talk) 15:35, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

John Law Prints Money

From around 65 years ago, when I was in gramma school, I learned something about a gentleman named "John Law" .. of course, now I can't recall anything about him. I think we studied him in "Louisiana" history. The thing he was noted for is printing money that had no gold to back it. I think I recall there was a "John Law Company" back in the 1700's or 1800's; and it must have had something to do with a civilian type of a governing entity. If anyone has any memory of what was taught from many years ago, concerning this particular person named "John Law"; or any other resource, I'd be interested. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.156.107.249 (talk) 04:55, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

From your description, it sounds like you're thinking of John Law (economist). Dismas|^(talk) 05:07, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

You also, I think, conflated "John Law" with John Company, which actually ruled much of India for a while. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:27, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

simplest year calendar in the world???

what is the simplest & most precise ABSOLUTE year calender in the world, somthing which will never be changed, each year is exactly the same in days, monthes E.T.C?

is there such a thing like it?,

thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.177.24.234 (talk) 07:26, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

All yearly calendars must change from year to year because a solar year is not an exact number of days or weeks. To complicate matters further, days are getting marginally shorter and years longer over the centuries. Of course it would be possible to define a calendar which was exactly the same every year, but then the equinoxes and solstices (and seasons) would move round the year over time. Dbfirs 08:05, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The article Calendar describes many calendars ancient and modern. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:03, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The article Decimal time may also be of interest. --Viennese Waltz 13:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

... also Decimal calendar and Calendar reform. None of them work, of course, but you might prefer one of them to the current system where the days of the week rotate with the years, and skip one day every leap year, and we need to add the occasional Leap second to keep in step with the sun. Dbfirs 16:38, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

There's also Unix time, which measures seconds since January 1st, 1970. It's really simple, and won't ever change. Ooh, actually it jumps back and forth when leap seconds occur. Well, there's still International Atomic Time. Paul (Stansifer) 17:24, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Historically, there have been calendars with a flat 365-day year, which meant that the same date would gradually shift around to different seasons on a cycle about 1,500 years long. The Maya calendar incorporated such a cycle, and according to the Wikipedia article on the Maya calendar, so did the ancient Egyptian one. --Anonymous, 18:29 UTC, October 29, 2010.

The 13 month, 4 week (28 day) month calender (+1 day for 'christmas' except leep years) is fairly simple compared to current efforts. Additionally there's no reason that every year should not start on a monday, and every month on a monday when using it. (note that 'christmas day' need not be one of the 7 days of the week) Obviously as noted above the issue with this and all other calenders is if a year is not exactly 365 days. (I call this the pack of cards calender since there are 13 cards in a suit, and 4 suits in a pack, plus a joker) .. do we have an article on it?? yes we do Positivist calendar - I'm fairly sure this is the simplest and least variable calender - the problems begins when trying to pick names for the months... Sf5xeplus (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that's the only accurate candidate that preserves seasons and is the same every year except leap years (when there could be either a double Christmas day or a bonus day half-way through the year). There would be nothing to stop the whole world changing over to this calendar (but probably with different naming). I don't think it will ever happen, at least not until there is a world government. Some of us rather like the rotating days of the week, and there is an enormous amount of conservative inertia in preserving the current system. It has been in use for 2054 years with a minor modification 428 years ago that took some countries a long time (up to 341 years) to adopt. Dbfirs 21:03, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Football question (The USA kind)

If both football teams have 12 men on the field when the ball is snapped, and the flags get thrown, who is assigned the penalty? Do both teams get a penalty and they offset? Googlemeister (talk) 13:10, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure they'd offset. Kingsfold (Quack quack!) 14:04, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Possibly the referee?Froggie34 (talk) 15:37, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

SAT

hi, i'm from india, and i just enrolled for the next SAT test! all i know is that it consists of two compulsory subjects, math and english. but a friend of mine says that i also have to give another additional subject test for phy or chem or bio, or something like that.... in order to go a reputed university. plz tel me what exactly is the significance of the score i'll get and does the second test matter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.234.185 (talk) 13:26, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Our article SAT contains detail about the content of the tests and their significance to college admissions in the US. You may also find it helpful to visit the website of the college(s) to which you are hoping to apply, and checking what their admissions criteria say about SATs. I cannot find any detail about extra tests in science, although I would assume a college's requirements would vary according to what subject(s) you intended to study. Karenjc 13:39, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I think your question about science tests refers to the SAT Subject Tests, which are covered in a separate article. Karenjc 13:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

As to the second test, many of the best universities require them, while most of the even "very good" universities don't. Lots of public universities won't require any subject tests, although some will (University of Pennsylvania, generally regarded as one of the best public universities in the United States, does require two subject tests, for example. The University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign, regarded as a very good public university, though not the very best, does not). Extremely competitive private schools like the Massachusetts Institute of Technology or Harvard University will require a couple of SAT II subject tests, while private schools like Tulane University, still highly regarded, generally do not. Do you (the original poster) know where you would like to apply for school in the United States? If you do, you can check on their admissions website, and see what the requirements are. Buddy431 (talk) 16:16, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

LSU vs TENN. 2010 NCAA 2 pt Try

My point is simple

My question is simple

Should the penalty for illegal substitutions be changed in the 2 point try, by taking the remaining yardage ( 13 1/2 ) yards from the defensive team in the next kick off. ? : Or taking away a time out, if they have one,?

Point: Presently if the defense puts 12 men on the field, the

       penalty, ( if they get caught ), is minor. If play has
       not started it gives the "D" a free peek and free time
       to adjust their personnel: the price ? ans = 1 1/2 yards

Discussion: I suspect that there are coaches in the college

            game doing this to gain advantage, saving their
            time outs (especially at end of the half or the game)

Propose: I think the NCAA may need to look at this and change

         the penalty (just the 2 point try) to cost the " D "
         a time out, or take the remaining 13 1/2 yards at the
         next kickoff. What do you think ?   

RDO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.236.78 (talk) 14:12, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I think you are mistaken in assuming that a 1.5 yard penalty is not substantial. It is half the distance to the goal, and will increase the offenses chance of success by more then 50%. Googlemeister (talk) 15:50, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The Reference Desk is not a forum for opinions. Please do not ask what we think should be done. --Anonymous, 18:30 UTC, October 29, 2010.

what is the most famous internet forum about electronic product in North American/Australia/Europe?

what is the most famous internet forum about electronic product in North American/Australia/Europe? where can i publish my product information so the potential customer will look into? i am running a company and main business is customize electronic product. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xingzhoushi (talk • contribs) 14:39, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

In Australia, http://www.whirlpool.net.au describes itself as "Australian broadband news and information". It has been around for many years and over that time has encompassed a lot more than just broadband. It may be useful to you. If nothing else, maybe you could ask there. HiLo48 (talk) 21:08, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

www.ttnet.net is an e-marketing site that describes itself as "a worldwide B2B marketplace that makes trade easy" and it has a category for sellers of home electronics. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:17, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Dual fashions: flares or straights

Years ago the fashion used to be for either flared trousers or straight trousers, only one at any time. Now it appears that both kinds of trouser are in fashion, both at the same time! What is the explaination for this? As far as I know we are not in a transition between one or the other: both are in fashion simultaneously. Thanks 92.15.4.156 (talk) 17:28, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Eclecticism in trousers? 81.131.1.16 (talk) 17:51, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

For a good few years now, this has been the case with most clothes. For some reason, we are living through a period of very eclectic, (relatively) tolerant fashion, where most styles are 'in' to a greater or lesser degree. Looking individual, and wearing clothes that suit you, seem to matter more than one specific, all-encompassing look. But you will probably notice that the people who wear narrow straightleg trousers are not the same people who wear flared trousers. 86.162.69.141 (talk) 19:33, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

For as long as the words at the end of this sentence remain red, there is no such thing as Logic in fashion. HiLo48 (talk) 21:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Fashion is a conspiracy by the manufacturers and retailers to get us to buy new clothes when the old ones have not worn out yet. Maybe they decided that people want a complete set of stuff, hence the dual fashion. 92.15.12.85 (talk) 14:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Which song is this?

Hi. I would just like to know if anybody is able to tell which song this is please? Thanks CrispinWhittaker (talk) 22:35, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't think we can identify the few generic bars played with any particular song. The same YouTube poster has 4 other very short videos (with song titles) that show him at an early learning stage with his guitar. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:38, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

October 30

Validating References when you have created the subject

I am the creator of the Australian Mist Cat Breed and would like to add Reference material to the article, but it appears that all the material I can list falls outside the specifications - in that it is self published. However, I could be considered to be the 'expert' as I hold the full archives of the breed origin which is the resource used in creating these publications. Can I add this material? History, Development, Analysis & Understanding of the AUSTRALIAN MIST BREED STANDARD by Truda M Straede BSc PhD 2005 ISBN 0 9586036 2 6 Spotted Mist 1986-1996 Edited by Terry Goulden and John Greenaway, 1996, ISBN 0 646 28375 8 Cats in the Mist 1998 Edited by Anne Burrows and Truda Straede, 1998, ISBN 0 958 6036X

In accordance with Australian legal requirements, copies of all these publications are lodged with the National Library, Canberra ACT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ausmist (talk • contribs) 04:29, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I've added these to the literature section of the article [9] .. as you asked I guess you are already aware of WP:COI , Wikipedia:Verifiability , and the stuff about primary, secondary sources etc etc..

This appears to be non contentious, and I have assumed that the books are good primary sources about the breed. The article still needs references, but assuming that what it says is true - ie that it's an acceppted breed I don't see any problems.

Is that ok? A good place for references would be articles (written by third parties) in publications about cats eg "Australian Cat Breeders" or "Cat Breed International" etc (made up examples). Alternatively I assume there is an international organisation that keeps details of breeds - if they have a website or publish that might be a good source for references.) 77.86.42.103 (talk) 13:12, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

By the way both fr:Australian_mist and pl:Kot_australijski_mist (french and polish wikipedia) have references from secondary sources, and from the standards bodies - these could be used in the article.77.86.42.103 (talk) 13:17, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

A self published work, even if you deposit a copy in the national library, does not sound like the reliable source needed to verify the material in an article, nor does it sound like the reliable and independent source needed to support notability. Edison (talk) 20:11, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Yemen mail bombs

Is there anything on Wikipedia about this incident? I couldn't find an article or even a mention in several lists of incidents I checked. Rmhermen (talk) 20:24, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

What is the average age of onset of Alzheimer's disease?

(Note: Science Reference desk cannot be edited) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abdbdba (talk • contribs) 20:52, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article on Alzheimer's disease with a section on its Epidemiology that answers your question. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:39, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

J-spd

What does J-spd stand for when the topic is an ankle-foot orthosis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jib-boom (talk • contribs) 20:56, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Time

A US show airs at 9pm EST. So that's 2am GMT, but in the UK tonight at 2am the clocks go back an hour for the end of British Summer Time. So the show is on at 1am? I'm confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.182.38 (talk) 21:00, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Medals

I am trying to find out more about the following medals, most of them are Armerican Military Medals, but what for specifically please, the last one was apparently won during WWII by a Pole against the Russians, any more info on any of these would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. P.S. bear with me I am trying to up load them but an still learning. Great thanks people I now know how to upload images and how to thumbnail them, great! So, my uncle was in the Vietnam conflict and got these medals, but what for? Does any one know? Or how would I find out, he is no longer with us, hence I have them. The 1939 medal, is another issue though. My grandfather fought in WWII, and brought back alot of memorabelia, such as this and a Wermacht flag, I have all of these. Is legal to own Nazi memorabelia? As I have heard it is not legal. I own it, and have kept if for good reasons, eg so we never forget, and I am not planning on getting rid of it. Thanks people! I am most interested in the 1939 and the green eagle one please.

thumb

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.145 (talk) 21:09, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I've thumbnailed the image. I hope you don't mind but we don't need the image to be that big on the page. People can click through if they want to. Dismas|^(talk) 21:27, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I've removed the example image that just wasted space. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:34, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Theres still one missing, man! I hate technology! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.145 (talk) 21:48, 30 October 2010 (UTC)