Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history

Main pageDiscussionNews &
open tasksAcademyAssessmentA-Class
reviewContestAwardsMembers

Summary of Military history WikiProject open tasks watch · edit · full list News and announcements The June newsletter is now available. Editors are advised that Featured Articles promoted before 2016 are in need of review, if you had an article promoted to Featured status on or before 2016 please check and update your article before they are listed at FAR/C. Current discussions No major discussions are open at the moment Featured article candidates Tetricus I • Battle of Plum Point Bend • Jozo Tomasevich • Genghis Khan • Bradley Winslow Featured article review Byzantine Empire • Battle of Red Cliffs • Edward I of England • Northrop YF-23 Featured picture candidates Thorsten Nordenfelt A-Class review Henry Biard • Battle of Saipan • Fort Corcoran • Sihanouk Trail • Battle of La Haye-du-Puits • Battle of Tinian • Henry Macandrew • Boot Monument • HMS Sardonyx (1919) • CSS General Earl Van Dorn • Miyoshi Nagayoshi • Ernest J. King Peer reviews Muckrach Castle • Regency of Algiers • Wolfgang Larrazábal • Benjamin Jackson (sailor) Good article nominees Nazran uprising • Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir • Ava–Hanthawaddy War (1401–1403) • Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma • Khalji Revolution • 1864 Washington Arsenal explosion • Antoine Hamilton • George II of Greece • Roswell incident • Podgorica Assembly • Maximiliano Hernández Martínez • Mohammad Shah Qajar • Battle of Meligalas • Gubir shootdown • Chestertown Armory • Mariano R. Vázquez • Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk • Gotha WD.7 • Cultybraggan Camp • Constantine II (emperor) • First Hunnic War • HMS Menace (1915) • Japanese destroyer Natsuzuki • CSS General Polk • Battle of Lewisburg • Bill Crawford-Compton • HMS Glenmore (1796) • Sentient (intelligence analysis system) • Tim Hughes (soldier) • John S. McCain Sr. • HMS Trent (1796) • Eleanor of Castile • Battle of Durazzo (1376) • Charles Upham Good article reassessments Galatian War • Franklin's lost expedition • Justinian I • Combat Aviation Brigade, 10th Mountain Division • Civil War token Articles that need... work on referencing and citation (147,571) • only work on referencing and citation (43,150) • work on coverage and accuracy (122,714) • only work on coverage and accuracy (19,684) • work on structure (31,792) • only work on structure (357) • work on grammar (8,170) • only work on grammar (45) • work on supporting materials (32,776) • only work on supporting materials (1,336) • assessment (940) • assessment as lists (120) • project tags fixed (5) • assessment checklists added (0) • assessment checklists completed (7) • task forces added (286) • attention to task force coverage (657)

Auto ed

Does anyone know why it doesn't go off if it's clicked after editing the page? Thanks Keith-264 (talk) 15:20, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Anyone? Keith-264 (talk) 06:31, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't know anything about this script, but perhaps try asking Plastikspork or Drilnoth. Hope this helps. —  Cliftonian (talk)  06:36, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Possible duplicate article - First battle of El Djorf and Battle of Al jurf

Gday. An new article stub has recently been created for the Battle of Al jurf which apparently took place in September 1955 during the Algerian revolution. I'm not an expert on this field but it seems to cover the same topic as an existing article - First battle of El Djorf. Can someone with some knowledge in this area pls have a look? If it is we will probably need to merge them. If so which is the correct name? etc... Anotherclown (talk) 01:40, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

I believe both may be WP:HOAX or at the very least WP:PROPAGANDA. No English language sources are provided and the 2 links on First battle of El Djorf are dead. I have checked Alistair Horne's A Savage War of Peace and on page 142 he refers to Bachir Chihani's headquarters at Djeurf being surrounded by French troops in September 1955, he refused to break out and lost most of his escorts, all their weapons and numerous documents [1]. The French apparently dynamited the caves in which he was hiding and he was trapped inside for 6 days. Subsequently he was executed by his ALN superiors. Horne doesn't mention 400 French troops being killed or 8 aircraft lost as claimed on First battle of El Djorf or 700 soldiers killed plus tanks destroyed as claimed on Battle of Al jurf (although the only source given doesn't state such losses), which would have been extraordinarily high casualties for the French to suffer, as they enjoyed superiority in most engagements. Google search to find other sources for the battle just repeat the Wikipedia page Mztourist (talk) 13:49, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Gday - thanks for checking this. Ack the POV issues. As it was a poorly ref'd stub anyway and it now seems fairly clear that it dealt with the same topic as an existing article I've just been bold and redirected the latest article - Battle of Al jurf) - to the existing one - First Battle of El Djorf. If there is an objection I will self revert and discuss. All the best. Anotherclown (talk) 11:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

These Texans are on a quest to improve Wikipedia’s coverage of their state's revolution

Hi all, I have another blog post up about the difficulties of writing a big-picture FA. Feedback is always welcome! (or praise, because I can pass that on to my bosses ;-) ) Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 02:37, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

High-volume disambiguation pages.

Greetings! The following disambiguation pages on this month's list of most-linked pages are relevant to this WikiProject. Any help in fixing incoming links would be appreciated. Cheers! bd2412 T 23:19, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

1. Battle of El Alamein: 9 links
2. Rus'–Byzantine War: 9 links - Done, down to 2 (possibly unavoidable) GermanJoe (talk) 22:29, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
3. Greco-Turkish War: 8 links - Done GermanJoe (talk) 13:17, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
4. Opium Wars: 8 links
5. Siege of Inverness: 8 links

What about links to Battles of El Alamein? There are some cases, such as service records (see Idwal Pugh's infobox), where both battles of El Alamein are meant. It would be wrong to make this merely a single link. Andy Dingley (talk) 08:54, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Seems to me that Battle of El Alamein would be better off made a redirect to Second Battle of El Alamein and the current disambiguation page renamed Battle of El Alamein (disambiguation). Most people mean the second battle when they refer to the Battle of El Alamein. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:12, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, reading articles that pipe the link to the battle down to just "El-Alamein", it is the second that is linked. So I'll back a redirect to 2nd, and a hatnote for the 1st. GraemeLeggett (talk) 09:42, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Note that per WP:INTDABLINK, if a link intentionally points to a disambiguation page, then it must be piped through a "(disambiguation)" redirect (for example [[Battle of El Alamein (disambiguation)|Battles of El Alamein]]). In this case, however, I am not sure that a disambiguation page is needed at all. The page could be redirected as proposed above, or alternately redirected to El Alamein#World War II, since that article section already contains everything in the disambiguation page. The same applies to Siege of Inverness; intentional links should pipe through [[Siege of Inverness (disambiguation)|Siege of Inverness]]. In this case, however, I would be inclined to say that rather than having a disambiguation page, the page should be moved to List of sieges of Inverness, since the topics are not unrelated. Cheers! bd2412 T 10:39, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Stopping an AK-47 Bullet

This link may be a bit off-topic, but likely interesting to member of this project. (links to YouTube video)

• "How Many iPhones Does It Take to Stop an AK-47 Bullet?", June 30, 2015 dailymail.com.ng. 220 of ^Borg 03:53, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Sounds expensive! Nick-D (talk) 08:19, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
    • How many with a Bible app open? —  Cliftonian (talk)  08:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

• Is there a military version 'ruggedised' I-Phone? (Kevlar case?) And what about a Koran or Talmud app? (per Wp:NPOV) - 220 of ^Borg 11:01, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

How far away do you have to be for this to work? (Hollywood screenwriters need to know, so they can ignore it. ;p ) And does it work as well with a bent iPhone? ;p TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 14:26, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Eyes needed

• Talk:German declaration of war against the United States (1941)#STRONGLY disagree with point that declaration not in Germany's self interest and
• Talk:German declaration of war against the United States (1941)#Hitler had no choice.
• The article itself could use some attention as well. BMK (talk) 16:38, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Ahmadiyya Jabrayilov: real person or Soviet propaganda?

At the suggestion of The ed17, I'm bringing this matter to the experts here. A recent news article discusses how Armenian Wikipedians have discovered that Ahmadiyya Jabrayilov may be a Soviet propaganda creation. The English Wikipedia article discusses him as a real person, but every single one of the cited sources is in Russian. I have no idea where to even begin looking into this, but I assume many of you do. Thanks. Gamaliel (talk) 21:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

To start with, I've added the 'hoax' tag to the article and copied the above section to its talk page. Buckshot06 (talk) 00:41, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I advised Gamaliel to bring it here because people will actually see it. :-) Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:44, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I wouldn't trust an Armenian newspaper article on an Azerbaijani war hero. Apparently the person making the discovery is the editor of Wikipedia. ÄDA - DÄP VA (talk) 04:52, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

There's a page on the French Wikipedia which, after being blessed with a Google translation, seems to indicate some French references. Maybe one of us who understands French should take a look at the refs, which have been flagged as needing improvement.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Template:POTD/2015-07-27

Hi everyone. Our POTD for the 27th of July is the Bombing of Hamburg. I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at Template:POTD/2015-07-27 and check the blurb for errors. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:29, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492: That blurb should be pulled - it's a POV-pushing disaster (it seems to reflect the wartime propaganda line rather than modern scholarship). It presents the bombing as largely focused on military-related sites, and implies that the firestorm on 27 July was not intended. In actuality, the Allies (including the USAAF) were targeting Hamburg's urban area and hoped to start a major firestorm. Nick-D (talk) 23:00, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• That's why I've asked for feedback; I'm not familiar with such issues. I've based the blurb on the article, which has the same issues you brought up. The paragraph starting "On the night of 27 July, shortly before midnight" does not state that the bombing deliberately lead to the firestorm and the lead says it was "a totally unexpected effect". The article's lead ("As a large port and industrial centre, Hamburg's shipyards, U-boat pens, and the Hamburg-Harburg area oil refineries were attacked throughout the war.", vs. "Hamburg, home of numerous shipyards, U-boat pens, and the Hamburg-Harburg area oil refineries, was a regular target of Allied strategic bombing missions" in the blurb) is actually more POV; the blurb says the city was targeted because of the installations, whereas the article says that the installations were targeted. Per your request I'll pull the blurb. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:29, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks Crisco, and sorry if my comment was too strong (I'd assumed the blurb was taken from the file's record, which in turn was based on the wartime rationale). Nick-D (talk) 23:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• No worries. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:19, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492: I went to take a look at the blurb, but it was gone, so I put a slightly rewritten version here just so I could say I did my part to help :)

Picture of the day

A US newsreel covering the Allied bombing of Hamburg, Germany, in World War II by the United States's Eighth Air Force. Hamburg, home of numerous shipyards, U-boat pens, and the Hamburg-Harburg area oil refineries, was a regular target of Allied strategic bombing missions. One of these missions, code-named Operation Gomorrah, was flown over a period of eight days in between 24 July and 3 August 1943. Initial missions saw the use of blockbuster and delayed action bombs and the introduction of new countermeasures against anti-aircraft guns. On the 27 July raid, unusually dry conditions and concentrated bombing created a firestorm which incinerated more than 21 square kilometres (8 sq mi) of the city. This was followed by two subsequent missions. Overall, the bombings killed 42,600 civilians, wounded 37,000, and destroyed much of the city.

Of particular note in this clip is the use of wartime news broadcasts such as this one as instruments of propaganda during World War II. As with most publications at the time, propaganda considerations resulted in an overall favorable slant towards the U.S. war effort.Video: United Newsreel

TomStar81, thanks for the addition. The reason I decided to pull the blurb was because the issues Nick pointed out permeate the article as well; to eliminate the POV problem, we'd need more than just a new blurb. That article would need some serious TLC, which I cannot provide with the limited Wikipedia time I have right now. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 04:35, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

"Russian Winter"

"Russian Winter" the article about the effect of winter in Russia on warfare, is up for renaming, see talk:Russian Winter -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 06:47, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Although there was no consensus, it looks like the nominator has withdrawn the move request. Too bad, I kind of liked the General Winter option. --Lineagegeek (talk) 22:38, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

A new request was filed to name it "General Winter" -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 08:01, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

"Crimean crisis"

A WP:BRD discussion is open on the topic of Crimean crisis, the discussion has been blanked before [2] so you may have to rollback a future blanking to participate -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 07:05, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Western Desert Campaign

A disagreement has arisen over the intro to the article. Feedback is requested at Talk:Western Desert Campaign#Request for opinions to break this deadlock. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Proper Sourcing & Copyright

I have a copy of a letter from Maj. Dewey Fournet to Maj. Keyhoe (both from the US military) that is listed as: CONFIDENTIAL: For Release to NICAP Officials Only. It's to a civilian organisation so it's not in the CIA online records, I appear to have access to something in hard copy that isn't digitised. Can I digitise it and use it as a reference from a reliable secondary source? Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 13:00, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

So you're saying what you have is not published somewhere? WP:OR says sources must be published.— Maile (talk) 13:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

You should be able to scan it and post it to WikiDocuments and source it to that.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:27, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

It's part of a collection of unclassified official documents, patents, and military reports from multiple countries which are in the book UFOs and Government: A Historical Inquiry. 99% of it is available already on the official government archives (the CIA, for instance, published everything they had online so you can pick it up), but I'm not sure about personal correspondence - even if it is between a man and an organisation. Panyd^{The muffin is not subtle} 17:06, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• If it is published in a book, then there is no need for scanning and uploading part of it. Sources only available but not necessarily readily available per WP:SOURCEACCESS. -Fnlayson (talk) 17:20, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Missing tail number

Further information: 2015 Moncks Corner mid-air collision

OK, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I can't find a serial number for the F-16 involved in Tuesday's mid-air collision over South Carolina. Can you help? Mjroots (talk) 18:40, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• F-16C 96-0085 according to F-16.net http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/4409/ MilborneOne (talk) 18:56, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

• • Thanks! Info added to article. Mjroots (talk) 19:03, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Actually, shouldn't that be 96-85. Leading zeros only needed to fill out the tail number, not the serial number, right? --Lineagegeek (talk) 22:53, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Its normal to use the official serial number as used on the data block as the "tail" presentation of that number are never the same, so 96-0085 is OK. MilborneOne (talk) 11:27, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

C.J. Grisham

Hi. I'm interested in submitting military blogger C.J. Grisham to the DYK Wikiproject but was told it's too long and there may be some unreliable sources. Someone at the DYK Wikiproject suggested I try this project for help. I had to get a crash course on using wikicode to submit this to the AFC project and I'd appreciate if a regular editor could assist. Thanks. 72.74.202.74 (talk) 03:42, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

That feedback sounds fair, and I'd add that the article also seems to be strongly biased in favour of Grisham and the causes he supports. Watch out for WP:PEACOCK language as well. Nick-D (talk) 22:42, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a problem rewriting the article. Could you provide some specific examples? 72.74.202.74 (talk) 00:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Also the statement "This was the latest in a series of altercations between Temple police and military personnel stationed at Fort Hood" is from this source:

"The conflict between law enforcement and armed military personnel in the community around Fort Hood, one of America’s largest military bases, has recently and repeatedly involved the issue of gun control" - Patrick Howley of The Daily Caller (citation 74)

Grisham also claimed on The Alex Jones Show (and at least one other podcast) that Sampson's arrest was on his mind when confronted by police. I can reword the statement if I misread the source. 72.74.202.74 (talk) 00:46, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• I would hold off on DYK, this article appears to be a puff-piece for Grisham. It uses way too many self-published sources, it does not present a NPOV, uses a number of sources that are not reliable, has a external link farm, etc. It needs a complete rewrite. GregJackP Boomer! 01:04, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok. Can you tell me what sources/external links to remove and which statements aren't NPOV? 72.74.202.74 (talk) 01:16, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, this appears to be a straight puff piece, with questionable encyclopedic value. Who wants to list it for deletion? Buckshot06 (talk) 05:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that he is likely to be notable. I'll look at it and see if I can gut it and rewrite it. I don't think he'll much care for it, if presented in an NPOV manner, however. GregJackP Boomer! 05:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to write a "puff piece". I'm fairly new to editing and User:MeegsC said to ask here for help improving my article. I was more than willing to make changes but pointing me to policy pages (without specifics) doesn't tell me anything. The snide comments aren't necessary. 72.74.203.154 (talk) 10:39, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

He doesnt appear to be particular notable for a stand-alone article, his arrest for carrying a weapon cant be that unusual in America and the fact that he blogs doesnt seem much of an issue unless he contraves military security (which doesnt appear to have happened). The Open Carry Texas (OCT) movement is probably more notable than he his but I am not sure if just another campaign group is worthy of an article and could be rolled up into something like Gun violence and gun control in Texas but this sort of movement would need something a bit more notable to get a mention anywhere. MilborneOne (talk) 11:37, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Time for the Xian H-X article?

Time to add an article for Xian H-X to be linked from People's Liberation Army Air Force? Lots of buzz about it lately.

http://thediplomat.com/2015/07/china-wants-to-develop-a-new-long-range-strategic-bomber/

Hcobb (talk) 16:51, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Lists of fortifications

There are a number of articles listing fortifications, forts, castles etc, such as:

• List of fortifications
• List of forts
• List of star forts
• List of walls
• List of castles
• List of castles by country
• List of cities with defensive walls

Some of these lists are quite confusing, and none of them can ever be complete or nearly complete. In my opinion, some improvements can be made, such as:

• List of castles and List of castles by country should be merged
• List of fortifications should be completely rewritten:
  • The "Individual fortifications" section is useless since it contains completely different types of fortifications, including city walls (eg. Beijing city fortifications), lines of fortification (eg. Maginot Line), and individual forts (eg. Fort Jesus).
  • The "Articles relating to cities" section is already covered in List of cities with defensive walls.
• List of forts should only contain forts, and not any other kinds of fortifications. The list as it is now also contains other types, such as castles (eg. Wildenstein Castle (Leibertingen) in Germany), towers (eg. Belém Tower in Portugal), batteries (eg. Batería de San Genís in Spain) etc.
  • Perhaps other articles could be created for other specific types of fortifications?
• Perhaps List of walls could be merged with List of cities with defensive walls?

In addition, there are lists relating to fortifications in a specific country, such as:

• List of Egyptian castles, forts, fortifications and city walls
• List of fortifications of Gibraltar
• List of fortifications of Malta (which I recently created)
• List of Norwegian fortresses
• List of forts in Pakistan
• List of fortifications in Serbia
• Forts in Sri Lanka

I think it would be a good idea to have more of these country-specific lists.

Does anyone else have any suggestions/ideas on how to improve these lists? Xwejnusgozo (talk) 17:34, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

General orders/awards

Does anyone have either or both of the following in their personal libraries and, if so, are there any refs to awards of bronze stars to Norman Dike? All the cites I have on Dike's page ultimately trace back to him or to family members.

• Index to the General Orders of the 101st Airborne Division, in World War II WWII
• Index to the General Orders of the 506th Parachute Infantry PIR, in World War II

Thanks,

--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 19:28, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Content_guide#War

At Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Content_guide#War we are encouraged to include the "trigger, if notable". This has been raised previously at Archive_56#Trigger_or_pretext and Archive_129#Pretext_or_trigger_event_guidance, with limited discussion and no conclusion. The trigger is usually the most hotly disputed topic in all articles on wars, particularly modern wars, as both sides in the actual conflict will usually have blamed each other for "starting it". The WP:MILHIST content guide could help reduce unnecessary disputes by giving guidance on how to produce a neutral description of the trigger.

I propose amending the word "trigger" to "stated casus belli", and then explaining that if the stated casus belli is disputed (i.e. WP:RS include claims that it was just a pretext), best practice would include either a footnote or a section in the main body of the article setting out the different perspectives on the stated casus belli held by WP:RS. Best practice would also avoid stating in wikipedia's neutral voice that the conflict was started by one side or the other, unless WP:RS do not reference such disputes. Oncenawhile (talk) 19:41, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Requesting admin intervention

FA Battle of the Alamo - There has been a contentious dialogue on the talk page for months. No consensus to make changes. There is now a Dispute resolution opened by an editor. Without waiting for any action, that editor has gone nuts making edits today. Can an admin step in on this, please and restore it to prior to today's edits? I believe this is edit warring. — Maile (talk) 23:10, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and reported this at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. — Maile (talk) 23:45, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

@Maile66: I've fully protected the page, the protection is for 6 months. When/if this gets resolved in a peaceful manner I'll drop the protection, otherwise the protected version is the version that we are gonna keep for the time being. TomStar81 (Talk) 23:58, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Pinging @Karanacs: so she also knows this happened. — Maile (talk) 12:17, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Mislabelled IWM Sunderland photo?

At Commons, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Air_Force_1939-1945-_Coastal_Command_C4614.jpg , the photo is captioned of a 10 Sqn RCAF aircraft. Now to my knowledge the 10 Sqn that was flying Short Sunderlands was Royal Australian Air Force, not RCAF. Yet I've just found that there was a 10 Sqn RCAF flying land-based anti-submarine aircraft. Can our experts please check the service history of the named aircraft, EK573/P, and see if the IWM has made a mistake? Buckshot06 (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi, I checked the ADF-Serials website, and RAAF Museum, and that tail number doesn't seem to be among the RAAF's Sunderlands, not even those that operated in Britain. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:44, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

The pilot mentioned - Flight Lieutenant W.B. Tilley - may well be from 10 Sqn RAAF, his name seems to appear in quite a few places from a simple Google Search [3]. Of cse its possible its a different bloke but seems unlikely. Anotherclown (talk) 05:27, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Also there seems to be another IWM image in commons of the same event here[4] which identifies the Sqn as being 10 Sqn RAAF. Anotherclown (talk) 05:29, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Service record for 418483 TILLEY, WILLIAM BORIS is available here [5] - I'd say this is probably the bloke flying the aircraft (if we can accept that part of the caption is correct). Anotherclown (talk) 05:33, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

In any event, the first picture's caption appears to be incorrect - RAAF rather than RCAF. Do we have linkages to IWM to correct things like this? Buckshot06 (talk) 06:22, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Addendum this page lists EK 573 as a RAAF 10 Squadron aircraft, "RB-P". Buckshot06 (talk) 06:39, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't see that addendum -- that makes it conclusive! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

According to this German submarine U-534 it's the wrong submarine and you can't have a successful rescue.Keith-264 (talk) 07:28, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

I've read of a 10 Sqn operating out of the Orkneys, with Sunderlands IIRC, but I wouldn't want to swear on it. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 08:58, 13 July 2015 (UTC)