Template talk:Listen/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Eww

Can I just say, no offense to whoever created it, that this is the ugliest web player I've ever seen. I understand it was coded in java, and java's not exactly visually pleasing, but seriously, can someone give this a decent skin? I just noticed the in-line version, and I gotta say, it looks awful (FF 2.0.0.6, on WinXP running Luna). The faux-WMP11 blue play button looks odd and out-of-place against the off-white oblong button. I say we don't use a picture, and instead just a text (black) play arrow. Also, the onclick takes forever to load, and I'm wondering if there's a faster way possible. -Mysekurity 02:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not controlled by this template. — Omegatron 04:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Right, it's controlled by div class="medialist listenlist". Should I bring it up with a dev, or just shut my trap? I thought I'd mention it here because I saw it used on this template (I don't know of a WhatLinksHere equivalent for div classes). -Mysekurity 05:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I believe User:Gmaxwell set it up. If you have constructive criticism/input, you could contact him about it.--Pharos 05:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with Mysekurity - this player/template is deseprately in need of a face lift. Also, template:multi-listen item is even worse -- see Ludwig van Beethoven#Media. Can someone please look into this? Raul654 21:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Honestly, what was wrong with it before? No disrespect to whoever created the new version, but it looks awful. PC78 14:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

It's important, in this case, to distinguish form from function. The new version is a significant improvement in a technical sense - mediawiki now natively supports ogg playback. It's just that the player is fugly - the interface needs work. Raul654 15:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

It kind-of reminds me of YouTube or other flash-embedded websites. I agree it's a much greater technical advancement, but why code it in Java? It would seem to me that most non-techies and public workstations wouldn't have Java installed, and the framework as a whole runs sluggishly. I also see that there's a switch for video. I wonder how that would work out... -Mysekurity 07:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

None of the comments above appear to be actionable to me, "this is the ugliest web player I've ever seen" just isn't something I can go and fix. Shall I just go replace the appearance with something else that you'll hate? The code is linked from here, patches are welcome. For whatever it's worth, I didn't create this UI... Tim Starling reimplemented the approach I used in our popup player as a mediawiki extension.

In any case, Java has little to nothing to do with the appearance. The player supports a half dozen playback methods, Java being just one of the options. Most of the appearance is pure HTML (everything except the pause/slider/time display in java mode) which is provided by the javascript (which has nothing to do with java) included in the extension. I am, personally, not keen on inline players but inline playback was a widely demanded feature.

If someone with HTML,CSS, and at least a little JS expirence is really interested in working on this I'd be glad to throw up a test site and give you access to change the player. --Gmaxwell 19:41, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't speak to all issues, but one obvious problem that should be easily solved is that in the Beethoven media section, it's difficult to tell where one item stops and the next one begins. That is to say, it's not clear whether the descrtiptions match the item above or below (it's above). Raul654 19:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I'm good with those, throw me a line if you want me, I'm only 1/4 done with a book on JavaScript, so it's only patchy there, but I'll try. I don't exactly know what you want though, to me it looks fine.Yamakiri 20:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

That is assuming JS is JavaScript, CSS is Cascading Style Sheets, and HTML stands for Hyper Text Markup Language. Yamakiri 20:28, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Where is the width set?

I'm trying to make a linearised version of this template as currently the button squeezes the title out and is very ugly. Here is the work in progress and it works reasonably well (without any table used) except that it's now 100% width instead of the set width in the current version. I cannot track down where is the width set in the current; neither .medialist nor .listenlist set a width in the CSS so where is the width set in the current version? PS: Why is the template unprotected? --antilived^{T | C | G} 10:22, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Looks much better than the current incarnation, and doesn't disrupt text so much. Keep it up. Rehevkor 14:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Umm but the current version is almost exactly the same as my version (I changed it), except for the description font-size and the fixed width. --antilived^{T | C | G} 04:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

That's why I like it. Although I've discovered you can set the width of the current listen template. Rehevkor 17:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Help text size

{{editprotected}} I'm not sure if this has been brought up before but is there a reason the text "Problems listening to the file? See media help" has to be so large? It, and the whitespace it produces, practically double the size of the box. See The X-Files#Early production issues. A single line of normally-sized or even small italics text seems sufficient. Thanks. Equazcion •✗/C • 12:51, 9 Jan 2008 (UTC)

I don't see this; I have only a reasonable amount of white space? Can you take a screenshot? What browser are you using? — Carl (CBM · talk) 01:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Whitespace/formatting, again

This template still causes a whitespace/formatting roblem. It would be nice if one could insert it so that text appears to its right. "br clear" can be manually done if needed. But we're having many bird-calls these days, and many bird stubs, and there it looks just gross. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 12:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree this should be done. But for now you can use {{Sound sample box align left|Sound sample:}} before a {{listen}} and a {{sample box end}} after it, which will make text wrap to the right. Equazcion •✗/C • 14:30, 10 Jan 2008 (UTC)

Ah good, this works as needed. But another problem exists - see Bobwhite Quail. It would be nice if the media player could be placed under the text (to the right of the image), but I have no idea if that is at all possible. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 08:02, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Fi.Wiki help

Hi, I'veen trying to add this Listen template to Finnish Wikipedia (see: fi:Malline:Kuuntele). I've gotten pretty far with it but what I don't understand is how get the gnome speaker icon appear on it as a decoration? The code is the same as here and I read through the CSS version discussion above but that did not really help. Do I need to add some code to Commons or what? Thanks. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 23:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

You'll need to get an admin to add the following code to fi:Järjestelmäviesti:Common.css:

div.listenlist {
    background: url("http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Gnome-speakernotes.png/30px-Gnome-speakernotes.png");
    padding-left: 40px;
}

/* Style rules for media list templates */
div.medialist {
    min-height: 50px;
    margin: 1em;
    background-position: top left;
    background-repeat: no-repeat;

div.medialist ul {
    list-style-type: none; 
    list-style-image: none;
    margin: 0;
}
 
div.medialist ul li {
    padding-bottom: 0.5em;
}
 
div.medialist ul li li {
    font-size: 91%;
    padding-bottom: 0;
}

Tra (Talk) 16:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey, it worked. Thanks! --Azure Shrieker (talk) 19:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Draft

This is a preview of a proposed edit. My aim is mainly to reduce the footprint of the help text, as well as to keep the description from wrapping to new lines. Since this template is meant to be displayed as a block, ie. take up entire horizontal lines despite the amount of width actually required, I think it would be better to actually use that lateral space rather than create new lines and waste even more space. The following displays well on my system, so please give feedback on your displays and on the idea. The draft code is at Template talk:Listen/draft. Feel free to tweak it etc. Equazcion •✗/C • 06:53, 27 Feb 2008 (UTC)

---

Accordion chords

Chords being played on an accordion — 145 KB
Problems listening to the file? See media help.

---

For comparison, here's how the old version displays:

---

Accordion chords

Chords being played on an accordion — 145 KB

Problems listening to the file? See media help.

---

Since no one seems to object, I've made the edit. Feel free to express any concerns here. Thanks. Equazcion •✗/C • 10:06, 22 Mar 2008 (UTC)

I had to make a few extra tweaks in order to keep those "sound sample box align" templates aligned correctly, most notably with respect to the "nowrap" I was planning on implementing. Couldn't do that in the end. I also reduced the the help text further as you can see (I think the help text should be at least smaller than the filename/description text). Eventually I think we need to combine "Listen" and "Sound sample box align", because no one really uses one without the other -- the "align" templates are really just a quick-fix for problems in this template. Done making edits to this for now, let me know if there's any trouble. Thanks again. Equazcion •✗/C • 10:38, 22 Mar 2008 (UTC)

Interlanguage link on wrong page

{{editprotected}}

There's a lv:Veidne:Listen interlang link on the main template page. This should be in /doc. I've added it there, but it needs to be removed from the template code itself. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:57, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Are there any options to make Template:Listen smaller?

There are a lot of music pages, such as augmented sixth chord, that could really benefit from a version of Template:Listen that could be used inline. For a lot of examples, we have to make do with Template:Audio, which is not as utilitarian, but much less cumbersome than Template:Listen. For example:

The Italian sixth moving to V.

The Italian sixth moving to V.

Is there anyway to change the size of the icon and the width of the "play-bar", for instance? Thanks. --Blehfu (talk) 03:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The image used is currently set to a width of 180px, presumably for visibility. Hyacinth (talk) 04:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

request right align parameter

Is it possible to add a parameter to the template so that the result can be right aligned to improve article text flow where needed? — MrDolomite • Talk 02:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I second this. I was working on an article recently where I had to use the music sample box to align it to the right. Having the parameter in the {{listen}} syntax would be so much easier. Thanks in advance! Utan Vax (talk) 18:20, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Updating

I propose the following modifications:

1. Convert to use 'navbox' or 'infobox' styles to fix padding, positioning, etc
2. Use an imagemap or direct image rather than that nasty background-image that can't be clicked on
3. include an 'inline' option that rejigs it as an inline template, to hopefully allow us to merge several of these similar templates

Obviously some care is going to be required to ensure that none of these changes are breaking, but I think the results will be worth it. Thoughts? Happy‑melon 09:53, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I've made a start to this at Template:Listen/sandbox. That the kind of thing you're looking for? (I should point out that this would be a reverse of a previous decision.) Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:57, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm surprised that that decision ever went through; it's produced a horribly unprofessional template that aligns incredibly poorly and usually has to be wrapped in divs to position it correctly. The non-clickable image is counter to our policies and may even have GFDL issues (I don't agree with that argument myself, but there's no question that it exists); the use of bespoke styles rather than CSS bulks up MediaWiki:Common.css and doesn't have the majority of the last two years-worth of CSS fixes we've developed. All in all I think a redesign is urgently needed. I like what you've done at {{Listen/sandbox}}, although I was planning on using the navbox styles rather than the infobox ones. It doesn't make a huge amount of difference. In fact, the entire audio-template collection desperately needs overhauling and probably consolidating: most of the templates in Category:Audio templates could easily be combined into one properly-designed one. Happy‑melon 13:30, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm all for consolidation of other templates. Let's get something which works first and then we can discuss the exactly styling / classes to use. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:28, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the current work - I don't think it's a good idea to include all the logic for inline audio here. Inline is usually handled by a separate template, and it makes for simpler code (and testing) in this case. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:33, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I've developed and implemented a nice version that can handle multiple files, noplay settings and various other bits and pieces. This completely deprecates {{multi-listen-item}} etc, {{sound}}, {{Sound sample box align left}}/right/mini, {{sample box}} and god knows how many others from Category:Audio templates. There's an awful lot of work to to here, firstly making sure that all the instances of {{listen}} look ok (the default position has switched to the right, which will probably have broken a lot of places), B) removing all the horrible wrapper templates that are floating around, and C) merging the deprecated templates into this one. But we can eventually get a sensible system together here. Happy‑melon 00:20, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• I think its great, much easier to understand and apply. I wonder though, will there be a bot to fix/update all the uses of the old audio templates? (because it seems those boxes got messed up when depracating). Thanks for all the hard work. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 02:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Might need more work? Please see here. The descriptions are a bit garbled it seems (using IE) but was fine yesterday. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 18:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. Can you be more explicit about the problem? Happy‑melon 19:16, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

The bottom line of each each description is kind of crunched up into the previous line. Mabye it is just in IE. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 03:55, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

option for right side of page?

I was looking at a page that uses this template and I think it would look better if the lsiten text was at the right hand side of the page instead of the left. Would it be possible to make this an option? RJFJR (talk) 21:25, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

That's the plan. I'm about to ping Happy-melon and ask him to move the new code over. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 21:41, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Header

Can there be an option for providing a header at the top of the box? The existing template {{Sample box start|Album title}} would add "Audio samples of Album title" to the top of the audio samples box. --JD554 (talk) 09:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

 Done |header= Happy‑melon 14:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Style fixes and proposed alterations

{{editprotected}}

There is one problem with using the CSS classes for this template; the navbox class clears left and right by default, which prevents the template from being floated left next to, for example, an infobox. The fix isn't hard, adding an explicit clear:left; and clear:right; solve it, I have checked it in the sandbox (my second edit, after synchronising with the main template) and will include some examples below. If this, or any other, viable solution can be applied it would help a lot. Thanks – Ikara ^talk → 04:22, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposed changes

While I'm posting anyway there are a couple of stylistic changes I would like to propose to the template. These are not part of the {{editprotected}} request above. I have already put them in the sandbox for demonstration purpose, and they break down to two things. Firstly I feel that the top margin is too large, it looks huge when the template is floated left. Secondly, the message at the bottom is taking up more space than necessary, it would look better if it and the rule above it spanned the table. Here are some examples:

Template examples

The updated template allows the template to display with itself or any other table on the opposite side of the page like this. By separating the help message in this way it also draws a clearer distinction between it and the audio samples.

However the old template is forced below any other templates on the opposite side of the page. Notice that the message at the bottom takes up more space vertically than the proposed template. The margin between this and other templates is also excessive.

There is now way this template needs to appear down here, it takes up far more room, and there is plenty of horizontal clearance between the left and right. Even if there were not, editors could easily use {{-}} to clear the margins. I have reduced it to 0.5em, but 1.0em would be a reasonable compromise.

Hopefully that will convince you that my suggestions are worthwhile. I leave the stylistic changes open to discussion, they aren't entirely uncontroversial and so I cannot expect them to be changed without some consensus first. I would be happy to see any (or all) of these suggestions implemented, I feel they would improve the template considerably. All the best – Ikara ^talk → 04:22, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your proposal, but let's revisit using navbox for the base class in the first place. This isn't a navigation template - it's an information template. What's the reason for using navbox over infobox (which would resolve the stacking issues automatically)? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 08:33, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually the infobox class clears the right margin by default, so it is still necessary to explicitly set clear:left; for the template when it is floated left. However it is more correct than the navbox class at any rate, so I have updated the sandbox template to use it – Ikara ^talk → 17:22, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

I've made the clear: updates required. I'm working on a more effective fix for the whole making-a-pretty-right-floating-box issue which should mean we don't need to use infobox or navbox, neither of which are particularly applicable. Watch this space (and poke me if I seem to have forgottne it!) :D Happy‑melon 17:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

General Question/complaint

Out of curiosity, why exactly was the template changed from the first ones? Was there a defect? Additionally, is there a bot capable of updating the many malformed pages caused by switching of the templates? I've been doing some manually, but it's a tedious undertaking. Orane (talk) 03:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The template was poorly floated, used deprecated url background images instead of inline images, had bizzarre text styles, was unskinnable, overlapped with right-floating infoboxes etc in most browsers, was poorly coded and had a few other things wrong with it that I can't remember off the top of my head :D. I can't run bot scripts from this location but I'll be trying to get something together when I get back in a week or so. Happy‑melon 08:58, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

More audio types

I think that 'sound' and 'music' are too broad to describe audio. I suggest making human speech distant from the other types of audio, thus:

• music - singing/instrumental music/opera
• sound - sound effect/bird call/ambiance//misc.
• speech/phrase/spoken/voice - a person speaking in some human language (quote, speech, comments, etc.)

  Suggested icons: File:WLS.jpg

I'm having trouble branching out from just that. Animal calls might be a good area to branch out as animal wikiprojects could use it. But what would we exactly classify whale songs as? — Dispenser 23:45, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with having more types, particularly one for 'speech'. I like the second icon! Happy‑melon 11:10, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

• Add a speech type.
• Make 'sound' the default or for undefined values this is an encyclopedia not a music library
• Possiblity make the icon removable, see "Sound Icon" below

— Dispenser 20:01, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I've added the speech type with File:Audio-input-microphone.svg as the image, and allowed the icon to be hidden altogether with |image=none. Changing the default is not practical: the template is used on thousands of pages to show music samples, all those templates would be rendered incorrect by such a transition and need to be corrected. In my experience, music is by far the most common form of audio sample used on enwiki; the template default is a convenience, not an indication of wider policy. Happy‑melon 08:43, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for choosing the Tango icon. The other ones were all GPL images or copy-vios, and thus not actually under free licenses. Kaldari (talk) 00:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Increasing the file limit

Is there any chance of increasing the limit of the number of files that can be used? Twenty would probably be a safe limit for most purposes. For examples where this could be needed, see list of compositions by Johann Sebastian Bach and Domenico Scarlatti. I'm acutely aware of template limits. I'm glad this template has been updated and is now more flexible, so people will be more willing to use it. Graham87 02:39, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I've increased it to ten. There are no fundamental problems with increasing it further, it's just a question of taste. Given that this is really designed to inline music samples around prose, I suspect that it will get unwieldy with too many files. For larger collections you'd probably need to columnise the samples anyway, so using {{listen|plain=yes|...}} inside a 3-column table would probably be your best bet. Thoughts? Happy‑melon 11:09, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Whatever layout looks best ... I don't know because, as it says on my user page, I'm blind. IIRC, some of the large lists of sound files use templates such as {{Colbegin}} and {{colend}} for formatting. They don't impact accessibility as far as I know. As an aside, it would be nice if your bot would automatically add "|play=no" to midi files, like at Johann Jacob Froberger. Graham87 15:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: MIDI: I think adding automatically |play=no is counterproductive. Why can't the template instead play a MIDI file? Somehow, the template {{Audio}} can, but it would produce a more consistent appearance if this template could be used; the page Graham87 pointed to is a good example — its presentation is consistent, pity it doesn't play. Als Luise … is a counter example: MIDI and OGG play, but the presentation is less than ideal. Can this template ({{Listen}}) be made to play MIDI files? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. It could at the moment in principle, but it would be very messy (we'd still need a parameter passed to identify midi files). However, this is fundamentally because the way audio file links are handled by MediaWiki is inconsistent: I've just filed a bug (T20922) to get that resolved. Once that happens, they should start playing in this template automagically, and we can just disable the |play= parameter. Happy‑melon 08:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Increase default size a bit

Seems to be a bit small. 220px might be alright. -Stevertigo 02:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Media help link should open a new tab/window

A popup would be preferable, but a new window would be fine. On the user end, FF can direct new windows to open in a new tab instead. -Stevertigo 02:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that's a good approach. Users are able to specify that links open in new windows if they wish; we shouldn't be making that choice for them. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

You must be talking about the setting in user preferences. That setting appears to apply only to external links, and not to internal wiki links. My comment still stands. -Stevertigo 08:06, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, no; I was talking about the ability of every modern Web browser to allow the user to open links in new tabs or windows as they please. I'm pretty sure Nielsen specifically discourages forced new windows in almost all cases. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Stop button

Would be nice. [Show] "still image only" link seems to work well; adding "(Stop)" would make this usage more explicit. -Stevertigo 02:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Sound Icon

It would nice to be able to set the type parameter to remove the large sound icon on the left. The icon is unnecessary and it makes the box wide and intrusive. Without it the box would fit nicely to 180px, the same as aligned images. Karpouzi (talk) 11:55, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

The box is a fixed width of 238px (why that number I don't know, but it's the same for all mboxes). I agree it would be useful to be able to remove the image, however; I've made that possible with |image=none. Happy‑melon 08:38, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Add Spanish Wikipedia link

Hi all!! Can someone add a link to this template in the Spanish Wikipedia, please? The interwiki is es:Plantilla:Sonido. Thanks!! --Obelix83 (talk) 19:18, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Done. You could have done it yourself by editing Template:Listen/doc though. Graham87 23:14, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Left float

I'm either confused or I don't understand the concept of "left floating" or there is a bug in this template's (or more likely in {{Side box}}'s) behaviour. I can't make the text flow around the box if the box is positioned left. Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

 Fixed Happy‑melon 07:53, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Cool, thank you. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 12:14, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

plain prevents "float:right"

Thank you very much for the above, Happy-melon. Another behaviour I don't understand is that the parameter "plain=yes" seems to prevent the "float:right" default behaviour. The code for the 1st box is: {{Listen|plain=yes|filename= … and so it should default to "float:right". I figured out that this can be overcome by using "style=float:right" (used in box 2), but I don't think that should be necessary. Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:26, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

|plain=yes is generally used for lists where a large number of files are included in a 'media' section, and so there is generally other formatting around to control the positioning. See for instance this version of Antonio Vivaldi. As such it would be a pain if it were constantly floating off to the side. How were you intending to use the right-floating plain version? Happy‑melon 07:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

You are generally right; however, some editors felt that in the article Opera the template's many appearances were too obtrusive (I have no such objections). I told them about the parameter |plain=yes and then we discovered that its usage prevented the default floating on the right. My objection to this behaviour is that it seems unintended. The documentation states "by default the box floats to the right side of the screen"; it does not mention that the use of |plain=yes will negate that. My suggestion above only sought to correct that perceived anomaly. Your example of the Vivaldi page exploits that anomaly — by rights, it should have used |pos=left. I realise that there is an unknown (to me) number of templates out there which may also use this behaviour, so there's probably nothing that can be done about it. In this case, I suggest to explain this side effect of |plain=yes and how to work around it (|style=float:right) in the documentation. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:54, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I see the merit in that discussion, and the |plain= parameter is indeed useful in those situations too. I've expanded the documentation a little; feel free to modify it further, naturally. Happy‑melon 14:06, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Can sb compare...

...this template to the Spanish one, and tell me what we can do to make it look smaller, like yours? Particularly the text size and the line spacing of the description, and also the help text is placed in yours starting from the very left. The other stuff is the same. I don't understand about template so please try to make changes there without asking! Thanks, OboeCrack (talk) 00:57, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Accessibility improvement for visually-impaired readers

{{editprotected}} For WP:ACCESSIBILITY to visually-impaired readers, WP:ALT #When to specify suggests omitting links from purely-decorative icons, so that screen readers don't burden the visually-impaired users with useless verbiage. I created a patch into the sandbox that does this by adding "|link=" in the obvious place. Please install this into the main version. For licensing reasons it has been argued that icons used in this way must not have licenses that require attribution; I don't agree with this argument, but to forestall any objections on these grounds the patch substitutes public-domain icons for GFDLed ones. Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 23:32, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

 Done Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 01:23, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Update on accessibility improvement

{{editprotected}} Due to an update in Mediawiki these images now need to be marked with |link=|alt= instead of with just |link=. This is described in WP:ALT #Purely decorative images. Please install this trivial sandbox patch. Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 20:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 20:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Box cut off on right in IE

As reported on the Village pump, file description text shows cut off on right in Internet Explorer (but not in Firefox). I found out that when I remove either width:100%; or border-collapse:collapse; from the line starting |text = <table style=, the problem disappears. But I guess that these are there for a purpose, so could anybody look into this and find out hwo to fix it? Svick (talk) 00:25, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

 Fixed by removing width:100%. Happy‑melon 13:27, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Svick (talk) 13:31, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Playing the audio file more than once

After I play the audio sample by clicking the play button, the button does not redisplay after the audio finishes, so it is difficult to figure out how to play the audio file a second time without reloading the page. (I am using the Safari browser.) Would it be possible to make it so the play button redisplays? I don't understand most of what is on this Talk page, so please try to give me an answer in very simple-minded English, although some sort of explanation (other than just a "No") would be nice. Thanks! --Robert.Allen (talk) 06:36, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

This template is not directly responsible for displaying the actual audio file playing interface; this template essentially just does the box and text surrounding it. I can put an audio file link anywhere: . So the issue you describe is a problem with the MediaWiki software that renders the play button, not with this template. Happy‑melon 08:33, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore, your browser is responsible for playing the file. Here, I use the Cortado (Java) player, but I could also use an external player, e.g. VLC. To replay the sound, using the Cortado player, one can just press the little triangle at the far left of the bottom of the space where the button was. Alternatively, and much slower, one can refresh the page. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:02, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

So, if I understand correctly, the MediaWiki software could be improved, so that it redisplays the play button when the audio is finished playing? Or is it the "ogg" plug-in that would have to be changed? (In my setup the default action seems to be to play the audio "in place" in the current browser window using a plug-in, without saving the download to a file or opening another application or window. For short audio examples, to me, that is the best behavior.) BTW, I did find that when I click the "More..." link which appears when the audio plays, it displays something like this:

• About this file
• Download file
  

Use player:

• Native browser support (selected)
• No player
  

If I then click the "No player" link, the Play button is redisplayed (the audio stops, if it is still playing). Is this provided by the MediaWiki software? Or does the template specify this link? (I'm not sure what the "No player" link is supposed to be about.) Perhaps I'm being simple-minded, but It seems to me that if a similar link was displayed to the left of "More..." and was simply labelled "Stop" that would be very useful, and most users would probably quickly figure out that clicking it would also allow them to redisplay the Play button and replay the audio. --Robert.Allen (talk) 16:54, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

The ogg plugin would have to be changed, but stop and pause buttons would certainly be handy. Graham87 06:04, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

MIDI issue

Cannot properly use this template with the MIDI file (.mid). See Kantu for example. Raoul NK (talk) 11:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

as played by Inkuyo group (Art from Sacred Landscapes, 1998)

This has been discussed before somewhere, but I can't find it now. What I remember is that it is a fundamental issue with the Wikimedia software. However, the template {{Audio}} seems to work fine; either inline: or as a right-floating box (placed in a table). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

It was discussed on this page at the section entitled "Increasing the file limit". Graham87 14:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

D'oh! -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 15:15, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Audio links to the file (with [[Media:]]) while this template embed the file. Since the MediaWiki software is not setup for MIDI playback, it links to the file description page instead. A hack to get the behavior of the audio template is to use the str templates to determine the file extension and link it using [[Media:]] instead. — Dispenser 15:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Great thanks to all! It works. But seems to me that for the future this template should support MIDI files Raoul NK (talk) 11:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

File/Media, not Image

{{editprotected}} Shouldn't it be File:... or Media:... rather that Image:...? See Public service announcement because the template is formatted incorrectly. --The New Mikemoral ♪♫ 22:45, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

The problem on that page wasn't with Image: prefix, but with link in title parameter. The title is linked to description page of that file, and you can't have one link inside another. I disabled your {{editprotected}}. Svick (talk) 23:05, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

It does seem to be messed up. But isn't it just "image" instead of ":image"? 75.62.2.254 (talk) 06:40, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Increasing the width of this box

If you press this template's button in Firefox (have not tested it in Internet Explorer), the last 20% of the play bar, the time, and the volume control will go off the screen. -PatPeter 01:53, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Unless you know how to fix this, there's little point in requesting an edit. It might be worth posting this at the technical village pump. Regards,  Skomorokh  06:50, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

noicon

It seems to me this behaviour is a result of the Firefox internal OGG player. I don't think it's possible to control the size of the play button in this template (fixed at 180px), but it is possible to create a larger play button without this template: [[File:Accordion chords-01.ogg|noicon|300px|right]] and hope that the Firefox player will fit into it. The desirability of such a huge play button is another question. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:06, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, this broken across Wikipedia. Is it possible to bypass Firefox's internal OGG player until this is fixed? Kaldari (talk) 00:12, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Michael, that's good. Was looking from something like that. It wants to be 300px width if the problem is going to remain. Both Fiefox and Google Chrome users have a right stretch problem otherwise. SunCreator (talk) 01:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Have created a workout until this issue is fixed. Just change {{listen}} to {{listen300}} for now or maybe this is the way we do it going forward. Anyway the bug effects around about 30% of browser users by market share. SunCreator (talk) 16:44, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

{{User:Sun Creator/Template:Listen300
| filename     = Accordion chords-01.ogg
| title        = Accordion chords
| description  = Chords on an accordion. Works with IE, Firefox and Google Chrome.
}}

Don't fork templates to workaround bugs. This is just a bad way of dealing with the issue. — Dispenser 18:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Please suggest a good way. SunCreator (talk) 01:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

A bug has been filed bugzilla:22538 by User:TheDJ. SunCreator (talk) 00:59, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The fix is simple, just add 30px to the right side of the box and center the button, what is so hard about that? -PatPeter 23:53, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Volume stuck with OGG

(I'm also posting a note at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Volume stuck with OGG, now archived at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 73#Volume stuck with OGG)

A few days ago I noticed that the user interface has a "stuck volume" bug when sound files are embedded with either {{Listen}} or {{Listen300}}. This is an additional problem to just the width of the play button. This problem occurs with Firefox 3.6.2 both when logged out and when logged in. I find no problem with Google Chrome 4.1.249.1042. It does not occur with the video "Inaugural Address" in Template:Listen/doc. There the volume control works correctly. The symptoms are that vertical volume control "pops" up when the mouse is moved over the loudspeaker icon but it hides itself as soon as the mouse moves inside the control, thus rendering the control at a fixed volume and thereafter unusable until the page is reloaded. (It is possible to quickly click the control just after the play button and "catch" the control before it hides, but once only and with a lot of luck.)

Examples are:

• "Epro theremin in middle range" embedded in Theremin
• the audio files "Accordion chords, "One small step for a man..." and "Moonlight Sonata" in Template:Listen/doc
• the example accordion sound on this talk page Template talk:Listen

This problem has not been described in the above bug. Is there another workaround we could use? -84user (talk) 04:35, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Update To clarify, the problem does not seem to be with the template at all, but with how Firefox renders the markup code that wikimedia sends to the client for embedded audio files. See the theremin audio file at the top. -84user (talk) 04:47, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

How the volume bug behaves when Firefox plays a local file

Volume control bug's appearance in a Wikimedia page

Update again I included above two screencasts showing the bug, to illustrate the problem for those not using Firefox. I then noticed User:TheDJ has linked to mozilla bugzilla:533201 which describes the problem exactly. -84user (talk) 00:42, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Workaround: A workaround is to click the Volume button on the player, which will mute it, but also gives it focus. Then use the Up/Down arrow keys on the keyboard to adjust the volume. It's not as nice as being able to click in the volume bar, but it works. --Ultra Megatron (talk) 18:33, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Use in Other Wikis

Which templates/images etc. need to be transferred? I'm trying to add an Ogg player to the Carmageddon Wiki, and so far have an example here, that doesn't display/produce the fancy Ogg player, just a link to the file. How does one get it to behave properly? JaffaCakeLover (talk) 20:08, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

You have to have OggHandler extension installed. Svick (talk) 00:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Accessibility improvement for JPEG that is rendered for .ogv

{{editprotected}} In reviewing Inauguration of Barack Obama for Featured Article status, I noticed that its Inaugural address section invokes {{listen}} with |filename=Barack Obama inaugural address.ogv, which displays the JPEG image http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Barack_Obama_inaugural_address.ogv/mid-Barack_Obama_inaugural_address.ogv.jpg with no alt text specified. This runs afoul of WP:ACCESSIBILITY guidelines, specifically, the alt text guideline. To fix that, please add support for a |alt= parameter to let invokers specify the alt text for the image, and similarly for |alt2= through |alt10=. I've done this in the sandbox and have tested the result, so you can simply install this sandbox patch for {{listen}} and this sandbox patch for {{listen/core}}. I'll update the documentation once this is done. Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 08:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Done, alt text in videos sounds like a good idea to me. Graham87 14:08, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Omit references to sandbox

{{editprotected}} Thanks; can someone please finish the installation by installing this further sandbox patch? The idea is that {{listen}} should invoke {{listen/core}}, not {{listen/core/sandbox}}. Thanks. (Sorry, I should have made that clearer in my original request.) Eubulides (talk) 19:15, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

 Fixed. Don't worry, I've made this mistake several times before. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:27, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Tables

{{editprotected}}

This template uses nested tables (and for layout; not for tabular data). That's bad practise, and I think it's unnecessary.

For instance, we could, perhaps, replace:

[ redacted - see 2x Sandboxes ]

Is anyone wiling to work with me on this? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:35, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Divs would seem more appropriate, because these are block elements, and not line elements. I have prepared sandboxes and testcases. I suggest incorperating the hAudio changes in the sandbox and deploy it all in one go. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Good point; thank you. Changes made; and working. {{editprotected}} is for both sandboxes. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:32, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

 Done Happy‑melon 17:45, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Smashing! Thank you. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 18:59, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Apply hCalednar microformat (editprotected)

{{editprotected}}

Please apply the hAudio microformat by changing [ redacted ]. No visual changes will be made; and the category is hidden. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:16, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

See comment above —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:41, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

OK; done. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:28, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Plainlinks?

Copied from Template talk:Side box

Which other template could be used to implement {{Listen}}? Or should a fork of {{Side box}} be made without samp>plainlinks? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Adding a parameter to {{side box}} that turns plainlinks off would be trivial, so I guess that's what we should do. Svick (talk) 09:00, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

{{listen}} using {{side box}} is absolutely correct; listen is displayed as a box at the side of the page, and side box produces a box at the side of the page! :P However, it's certainly not universal behaviour of 'side boxes' to display in plainlinks, so I think I've  Fixed this by moving the plainlinks declaration to {{sister}}. Let me know if there are any other uses of {{side box}} which need plainlinking. Happy‑melon 10:52, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Horizontal line

While I'm here, I'd like to suggest that the horizontal line (divider) at the bottom of each section in {{Listen}} should only be drawn if 1) this section is not the last, or only, section, and 2) the option |help=no is not set. In other words, the divider should not be drawn in the last, or only, section if the option |help=no is set. The divider is currently produced by the last line of code in {{Listen/core}} (<hr>). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Quote marks around song titles

I've boldly amended the guidelines for this template's |Title=, to say "do not use quote marks around song titles" (see for example this edit). I think that looks better, and makes for better metadata. It's comparable with not using them in section headings. I trust that's OK with everyone. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 09:10, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not so sure. What if we had a recording with |title="Der Lindenbaum" from Schubert's Winterreise? Why shouldn't MOS:TITLE apply inside this template? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

What abouth video?

Could this template be used for Elephants_Dream#Short_film_video? It is a free film, so it should be added to type parameter category film prior. --Milan.j (talk) 17:02, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Size is too big for plain

I understand 220px is desired in most cases, but could a "|small=yes" parameter be implemented for imagesize of 80px or something like that for cases when a tight setting might be preferred? Thanks, Nergaal (talk) 21:18, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Interwiki – polish template

Please add: pl:Szablon:Listen q:) Vinne2 (talk) 19:25, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Done, note that you could have done it yourself, since interwikies are on the doc subpage, which isn't protected. User<Svick>.Talk(); 19:35, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow, thx, didn't know that, won't do it again! Vinne2 (talk) 22:36, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

help? with myrrha midi file?

Computer rendition of Souza's "Myrrha Gavotte" as arranged for piano

Template displays both a title and a file name, for my sound in Myrrha TCO (talk) 01:27, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. I've added the parameter "play=no". Graham87 03:00, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

The template {{Listen}} never plays MIDI files (see above at #MIDI issue et al.). A better solution is to use {{Audio}}, e.g.

{| align=right border="1"
|bgcolor=Cornsilk|{{Audio|Myrrha Gavotte 3.mid|"Myrrha Gavotte"}}<br />Computer rendition of Souza's "Myrrha Gavotte"<br />as arranged for piano
|}

gives the result above on the right which will play in a properly configured browser.. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

thanks, will put in the article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO (talk • contribs) 06:42, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Width

Would like it if we could set the width to be the same as the image default such that the sound boxes line up with the images. For example look at pneumonia. The sound box is wider than the images and thus not look as good as it could. Would at least be nice to have this as a parameter.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:19, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

CracklesCrackles heard in the lungs of a person with pneumonia using a stethoscope.

This has been raised several times before (see above). Currently, the size is fixed at 220px in {{Listen/core}}. Until size becomes a parameter, you have to construct your own box. However, I don't think it's possible to have the button width automatically adjust to a user's preferred default width for thumbnail images, possibly not even to the system's default size for thumbnails. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:25, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

"noicon" ignored

It seems the parameter |noicon in the code [[File:Accordion chords-01.ogg|noicon|right]] is no longer observed; vide:

noicon

The template {{Listen/core}} issues this parameter and ignoring it changes the appearance of {{Listen}}. What caused this change and how can it be reverted? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:51, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Seems like it is being fixed. – Danmichaelo (talk) 16:49, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

(For the Record) The fix seems to be implemented now. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:32, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Float problem with thumbnails

When used with a seperate thumbnail, the listen box doesn't float. It appears there is a "clear:both" somewhere. In the example below, the listen box should appear after the text, however it appears after the thumbnail, leaving a large gap. Is there a way to move the listen-box higher?– Lionel ^(talk) 23:57, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

---

File:149976 173192362705430 173189892705677 510135 6299935 n.jpg

Mildred Jefferson

On August 5, 1974, the White House released a previously unknown audio tape from June 23, 1972. Recorded only a few days after the break-in, it documented the initial stages of the coverup: it revealed Nixon and Haldeman meeting in the Oval Office and formulating a plan to block investigations by having the CIA falsely claim to the FBI that national security was involved.

---

This happens when you use the |plain=yes and the documentation says so. BTW, using that parameter is not recommended in general. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:47, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

File:149976 173192362705430 173189892705677 510135 6299935 n.jpg

Mildred Jefferson

On August 5, 1974, the White House released a previously unknown audio tape from June 23, 1972. Recorded only a few days after the break-in, it documented the initial stages of the coverup: it revealed Nixon and Haldeman meeting in the Oval Office and formulating a plan to block investigations by having the CIA falsely claim to the FBI that national security was involved.

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Default icon

Hi all,

The icon on the template currently defaults to type=music, with notes coming out of a speaker. Would it be possible to switch this to type=sound? The sound icon is still meaningful for music (it's all sound) while having the music icon next to a non-music file cam seem quite odd (see, eg, the section above). Andrew Gray (talk) 15:28, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Sounds sensible to me. Done. Graham87 03:38, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! One more papercut resolved :-) Andrew Gray (talk) 11:21, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

New player?

What's this new ogg player from "Kaltura"? It's ugly, and is particularly strange on IPA pages, where it actually overlaps he IPA chart but the chart shows through. It's also somewhat ugly and controls are not all that great. User:Umbreon126--「talk」 ~from 06:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the appearance of this player is no improvement. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:47, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth, it's called TimedMediaHandler. It works OK with my screen reader, but it took a bit of getting used to. Graham87 15:16, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Shorten for showing seek bar

Hi everyone. Now the new media player installed to mediawiki, this listen template does not work correctly on visibility of seek bar. So, I tried to shorten the width of the player to 180 px as the default of WM commons' thumbnail, then the seek bar was shown. See template:listen/testcases, template:listen/core/sandbox or template:listen/sandbox. Shall we change the width from 220 px to 180 px? Regards, Akaniji (talk) 05:49, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

This is IMO quite bizarre and possibly a bug. Why should the seek bar be omitted in certain widths?

180px		seek bar visible
200px		no seek bar
220px		no seek bar
none specified		no seek bar
240px		seek bar visible

If this is indeed the intended behaviour, I agree that the 180px version be implemented forthwith. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:51, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thank you for checking the behavior! I wrote about this on mw:Extension talk:TimedMediaHandler. --Akaniji (talk) 09:08, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I have the feeling that page is not watched a lot. May be Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) is a better place to raise this.

PS: I think this has been mentioned before: if/when a version of this template with a different size gets implemented, it might be a good idea to add a parameter |size= so that it can be adapted more flexibly in some articles. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:25, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

How many samples?

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I will ask here anyway. I am doing a song list article, and thought of it to be a good idea to include samples of some songs in it. I was wondering, how many samples would be allowed in one article? Thanks, Statυs (talk) 14:54, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there's a hard limit, but you shouldn't make a gallery of non-free sound samples. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music samples. Graham87 05:28, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Missing quote in template source

Line 3 of Template:Listen/core is missing a closing quote for the style attribute of the div. Good to fix. Ssastry (talk) 23:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

HTML error

Edit request on 26 February 2013

Line 3 is missing a closing quote for the style attribute of the div. Good to fix.

Ssastry (talk) 23:22, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

This is in relation to Template:Listen/core; moved from Template talk:Listen/core --Redrose64 (talk) 23:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Done see here. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:35, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

type=nature

Could we add an option for |type=nature, with a suitable icon (silhouette of a singing bird, perhaps), for birdsong and other wildlife recordings? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:02, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

The template has an undocumented parameter |image= which allows to specify any image. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:58, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Because we have a lot of nature sounds on Commons, which I and others plan to add to Wikipedia, and as we are soliciting the donation of more, I think we should have a specific parameter value, and a standard icon, for this. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:19, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

A separate type value would also allow for more granular tracking categories, which I am about to request, below. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:09, 19 July 2013 (UTC)