Welcome to the humanities section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

Select a section:

WP:RD/H

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

How can I get my question answered?

Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
Note:
- We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
- We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
- We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
- We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

May 29

Origin of sexagesimal timekeeping

Hello, again!

Years ago in my childhood, I remember being taught that we divide an hour into 60 minutes, and a minute into 60 seconds, owing to the base-60 Babylonian numerical system. Indeed, despite its antiquity, it was even better than our base-10 system for creating fractions—since multiples of 60 tend to divide evenly by any whole number in the decad (except maybe 7).

Recently, though, I encountered the Medieval table of Papias, which divided time as follows:

47 atoms == 1 ounce

8 ounces == 1 ostent

1½ ostents == 1 moment

2⅔ moments == 1 part

1½ parts == 1 minute

2 minutes == 1 point

5 points == 1 hour

How widespread was this method of timekeeping in the Middle Ages? Was it replaced with our current system when 12-hour mechanical clocks began to replace 24-hour water clocks in the 16th Century?

Can anybody here point to an academic paper chronicling how this all came to be? Was it in any way influenced by the adoption of Hindu-Arabic numbers when they displaced the old Roman ones?

Thank you for reading this. Pine (talk) 07:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Twinpinesmall are you thinking of some article work and want all sources which might be useful, or just those answering your specific questions? fiveby(zero) 17:09, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd appreciate any resources that might be useful.

I always assumed that sexagesimal horology had remained unchanged since ancient times. An article on how division of hours evolved would most definitely serve an academic purpose!

Pine (talk) 22:08, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Page 17 of Macey has more specific information.^[1] Similar subdivisions have been used by other medieval authors: Bartholomew of England and Honorius of Autun.^[2] The development of the subdivision of the hour from antiquity to today is probably not a straight line but contains some forks or independently originating parallel lines, with one approach eventually winning out. --Lambiam 22:51, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Leclercq seems to be saying here that one such division is from gromatici but the cited jstor article from Tannery and Gromatici Veteres are beyond me. Also he points to The Reckoning of Time: four punctos, ten minuta, fifteen partes, forty momenta, [etc.] fiveby(zero) 19:33, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The method described above looks like some medieval author's idea of a joke (it reminds me a bit of the monetary system in Harry Potter, which is a send-up of the pre-decimal English monetary units). Who would want to do math in base 47? Or deal with multiples of 2-2/3? -- Avocado (talk) 14:33, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, a substantial fraction of the medieval European population (perhaps the majority) did not use sexagesimal timekeeping -- they divided the day into twelve hours from sunrise to sunset, and another twelve hours from sunset to sunrise (not necessarily equal in length to the daylight hours), and had little need for precision beyond halves or quarters of an hour in their ordinary daily activities. The constant-length minute did not become widely known beyond astronomers, and others who had special need for precision time measurements, until public mechanical clocks began to be displayed in cities, around the 14th century. AnonMoos (talk) 06:36, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We have an article Atom (time), supposedly so named because it was considered "the smallest possible unit of time", equated in the Bible with the time of the blink of an eye.^[3] It is defined in in Byrhtferth's Enchiridion as 1/564 of a moment (1½ minutes). Perhaps Byrhtferth or some predecessor determined this experimentally by counting how often he could blink in 90 seconds. Note that 564 = 12 × 47, so then the atom is 1/47 of an ounce (1/12 of a moment). --Lambiam 12:24, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The modern smallest division of time is the "Planck time"... -- AnonMoos (talk) 21:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

Macey, Samuel L (1989). The dynamics of progress : time, method, and measure. for a general introduction
Leclercq, Jean (1975). "Experience and Interpretation of Time in the Early Middle Ages" (PDF). Studies in Medieval Culture. short paragraph p. 13 along with more general discussion of divisions of day and hour
Hellyer, Brian. Man the Timekeeper. pp. 8-.
Nilsson, Martin P. (1920). Primitive Time-Reckoning. probably not useful, but a broad discussion across cultures of divisions and indication of parts of the day
Tannery, Paul (June 1895). "Sur Les Subdivisions de l'Heure dans l'Antiquité". Revue Archéologique. JSTOR 41729568.

Thank you for all of the references! I most certainly now have quite a bit of reading to do!

Let's hope that the ostents and atoms not drag. :) Pine (talk) 06:49, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Could Habiru have traveled by ship?

I'm wondering if they could have travelled by ship to Meluhha, and then become the origin of the Abhira.Rich (talk) 07:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I warned you about positing long-distance migrations between culturally-divergent peoples based solely on very vague word similarities in the 2022 September 10 archive. There's no logical reason why a Habiru person couldn't have got on board a ship, sometime during the late bronze age or early iron age centuries, but there's a strong incongruity between the fact that the Habiru seem to be associated with the deserts surrounding Canaan (insofar as the word doesn't just refer to poor people or malcontents or bandits within a civilization), vs. the idea of setting sail from southern Iraq. The maritime social disrupters of that era were the Sea Peoples, but they were in the Mediterranean, not the Persian Gulf... AnonMoos (talk) 07:53, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is this my last warning?Rich (talk) 03:38, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have no ability or desire to keep you from asking whatever you want here, as long as it falls within the allowed parameters of the Reference Desk, but I was a little disappointed that after you asked a much more reasonable question about the Moabites, you're now back to asking a rather unreasonable question (a slight variant of your Sept. 10 question, whose problematic assumptions were explained to you in detail then). AnonMoos (talk) 06:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. I have read on Wikipedia though that the people that in Sumer were called Sa.Gaz lived in southern Mesopotamia. I don't see why they couldn't have got on ships or even been sailing on ships, to Meluhha. I'm sorry i'm such a disappointment :-) 136.36.123.146 (talk) 06:53, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is impossible to prove that some bunch of irregulars (Habiru is not an ethnic designation) could not have made the trek of several thousand miles (walking from Meluhha to Abhira country is still a considerable distance), but the idea is extremely unlikely and such speculation is pointless. --Lambiam 10:16, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lambiam, what has a point or is pointless depends on a person's values. I don't like the way you are talking. Now, you for example seem to place a high value on barnstars, which is your option but not mine l....also you are mixing your opinion on likelihood with your opinion on pointlessness.Rich (talk) 19:37, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The number of such potential questions is endless. Could the Perizzites have migrated to India and become the Purus? Yes. Is there any reason to think that the Purus were orginally Perizzites? No. Could the Argippaeans have migrated to Ireland and become the Cíarraige? ... --Lambiam 11:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thor Heyerdahl was similarly obsessed with the idea of early long-distance migration by sea, which he proved might have been possible, but his theories have found little acedemic support. Alansplodge (talk) 15:52, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's not at all related but many acedemics like the common people will be traveling long-distance often by air in fact, so for similar reasons - logistics - if they ever did Abhira would have rather traced their link by land I think --Askedonty (talk) 21:27, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thor Heyerdahl was almost uniquely wrong-headed for someone who received a lot of favorable publicity, and wasn't simply dismissed as a crackpot. There's ample evidence (in linguistic affiliations and introduced plants and animals) for Polynesian migrations from the west, but Heyerdahl insisted on positing South American migrations from the east. Polynesians and Micronesians are known for their long-distance sailing voyages, while pre-Columbian seamanship on the western coast of South America was mostly coast-hugging rafts, but that didn't bother Heyerdahl in the slightest... AnonMoos (talk) 01:20, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And the idea of Egyptians crossing the Atlantic in reed boats to help the Inca build their pyramids is just plain bonkers. Alansplodge (talk) 15:00, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also a successful challenging of other sometimes very popular theories like remaining from those of Ignatius L. Donnelly, see by Lyon Sprague de Camp, Lost Continents --Askedonty (talk) 15:50, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense or connection?

I saw a video on YouTube. It was uploaded sometime after the 2023 Nashville school shooting. In the video, Savannah Chrisley was seen making some sort of a statement, and crying. What does the tragedy have to do with her?2603:7000:8641:810E:338:32DA:589A:8A1B (talk) 10:48, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It made her sad. Blueboar (talk) 10:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

She's a somewhat famous person who has lived in the area. Being interviewed/commenting about the event is fairly expected.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was she scared her young niece, Chloe, may have attended the school where the tragedy occurred?2603:7000:8641:810E:338:32DA:589A:8A1B (talk) 23:24, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe she merely emotionally distraught by the deaths of young children. Humans are capable of being sad, even if they don't personally know the people. It's called empathy. --Jayron 32 11:18, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Empathy might be in short supply in Brooklyn. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:58, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Küfeci

The internet has multiple stories of Turkish küfeci workers who in the 1960s allegedly carried too drunken patrons (who couldn't walk) in baskets from bars to home. However, reliable sources that I found only mention küfeci workers as basketcarriers who carried out the coal to the surface in the Ottoman Empire (more generally they were the unskilled workers who formed the vast majority of the total workforce). The only book source that I found mentioning them as drunkard carriers is this one. Could it be a hoax or a joke? Brandmeister^talk 14:42, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you see the Snopes article? fiveby(zero) 14:54, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Küfeci's primary meaning is porter, and comes from "küfe", meaning a (wicker) basket and the suffix "ci", which denotes a profession or trade in Turkish (e.g. elektrikci is an electrician). So a küfeci is someone whose work involves carrying a basket. I have no idea if the ones you mention carrying drunk patrons from bars really existed or are an urban legend, but the word will refer first of all to a classic porter, like the coal porters you also mention. Xuxl (talk) 14:57, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the Snopes article. Good they tackled this meme. Brandmeister^talk 15:15, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You can use küfelik in present-day Turkish for someone too drunk to walk by themselves.^[4] While I don't know if there is any truth to the notion that in bygone times porters were actually employed by bars to carry such "basket cases" home, I can imagine that from time to time their services were sought in lieu of a cab service. --Lambiam 19:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

May 30

l’Unite in Brussels Belgium, 1939ish

Evening Folks, does anybody know what "l’Unite" sports club is or was? Apparently a place ran by Belgian communists militants, used a recruiting ground for the resistance before the war? scope_creep^Talk

Unité (Eynheyt in Yiddish) seems to have been a Jewish communist sport club based in Brussels formed in around 1936. If you are referring to Sarah Goldberg (spy), there is a cite to Baumel-Schwartz, Judith Tydor; Cohen, Tova (2003). Gender, place and memory in the modern Jewish experience: re-placing ourselves.

"En 1936, la stratégie de ‘front populaire’ amène une partie d’entre ces dernières à fusionner, donnant naissance au YASK à Anvers [Antwerp], au DYSK [Demokratisher Yidisher Sportklub.] à Charleroi et à l’Eynheyt (Unité en yiddish) à Bruxelles, ce qui leur fournit un rayonnement et une audience dont l’impact laissera une trace importante dans la mémoire de la communauté juive."^[1] Also cites the "magisterial work" of Rudi Van Doorslaer, Enfants du ghetto. Juifs révolutionnaires en Belgique (1925-1940), Bruxelles, Labor, 1997.

Also mentioned in Het Belgische Jiddischland by Rudi Van Doorslaer, p. 35 (in Dutch).

The French article fr:Sarah Goldberg (résistante) refers to Yask, "Yiddishe Arbeter Sport Klub" which may have some relevant links. YASK was an international organisation with branches in at least Belgium, France and Vilnius^[2] which which emerged out of the immigrant, working class neighborhood of Paris' Xth arrondissement in 1929.^[3] YASK was "affilié à la FST-CGTU [Fédération Sportive du Travail (FST) - Confédération Générale du Travail Unitaire (CGTU)] et un soutien déclaré au Front populaire et à l'Espagne républicaine ; il était aussi membre de la LICA (et à partir de 1949 du MRAP)." [5]

From fr:Emanuel Mink: "Né à Tomaszow en Pologne en 1910, il émigra à Anvers [Antwerp]. Membre du Yask, club sportif des ouvriers juifs. Il intégra l'équipe belge qui devait participer à la Spartakiade, les Jeux olympiques ouvriers de juillet 1936 à Barcelone. Mais cette manifestation fut annulée en raison du putsch militaire de Franco." Most of this is covered in our brief Yask article. Many Resistance fighters seem to have joined YASK before WW2.

There doesn't seem to be much info specifically about L'Unité, but Simple brokers or creators? French communist sports leaders and the Eastern European sports model (1923–1991) may have some pointers. MinorProphet (talk) 15:14, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

Special ITU one-letter country codes

Countries have in general a three-letter ITU country code. Eight exceptions are B, D, E, F, G, I, J and S. But why exactly those eight? There are many other large and historically important countries that would "deserve" it, especially in comparison to Sweden. --KnightMove (talk) 06:11, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Some commonality with the single-letter International vehicle registration codes, though there are differences. AnonMoos (talk) 06:18, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Right, but in this case, most single letters of the alphabet are used where there is a feasible country; and in general, it is a mixed one/two/three letter code. This is logical. But the ITU code is a dedicated three-letter code with eight exceptions. But why those eight, exactly? --KnightMove (talk) 06:30, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pure speculation, but one might think that JAP could be considered offensive, while BRA also lends itself to unfunny jokes. --Lambiam 09:38, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yet JPN and BRZ are available, as well as numerous other less likely offensive three letter combinations. --Jayron 32 11:08, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect, given that all 8 date from the earliest years of the ITU (many, but not all, were founding members) is that these 8 are "grandfathered in" in some way; likely they were already using these codes at the time the ITU Code was established, and were allowed to keep their single-letter codes. --Jayron 32 11:14, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thank you. Where have you found the founding members please? --KnightMove (talk) 16:50, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Member states of the International Telecommunication Union has a list of when each member joined. Presumably, those that joined on the earliest date, 1865/5/17, would be the founding members. Of the 8 you listed, 5 joined on that date, and the others before 1880 (Britain in 1871, Brazil in 1877, Japan in 1879). --Jayron 32 18:11, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bible

Are there info about the lives of the baby and two women after Solomon's judgement?
Who were the Queen of Sheba's parents?
Are there info about the Giant Goliath's life before David killed him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.133.236 (talk) 17:31, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What does your copy of the Bible have to say about those matters? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:59, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) regarding #1, the Judgement of Solomon is not known as a story as such outside of the Bible (except in parallel stories not involving Solomon, but involving the same basic narrative, from other cultures and traditions) and its historicity is not documented as such. Which is to say, the story is likely a parable and not meant to be seen as an historical event. Regarding #2: the Queen of Sheba's parentage is not mentioned in the Bible. However, I believe she has a more extensive narrative in the Kebra Nagast, the foundational Ethiopian national epic, so you might be able to find more about her from there. No contemporary evidence, it should be noted, exists for Solomon or the Queen of Sheba, pretty much all we know about either of them is material written down centuries (in the case of the Bible) or millenia (in the case of the Kebra Nagast) later. --Jayron 32 18:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but the woman who lied was punished? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.133.236 (talk) 18:21, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To simplify what was explained above. It's a story, told to make a moral point, and is older than Hebrew culture. The Hebrew (Bible) version was first written down many centuries after it supposedly happened. It (almost certainly) never actually happened: the women and the baby (almost certainly) never existed in real life. Even Solomon may never have actually existed in real life. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 18:48, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Math joke: if only King Solomon had known about the Banach-Tarski paradox. Instead of cutting the baby into two pieces, he could have suggested 5 pieces and made both mothers happy. 2602:243:2007:9990:8A6:A89B:8B0A:E2B1 (talk) 22:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As Shylock discovered to his eternal chagrin, cutting babies into pieces involves a loss of blood, even if you put the pieces back together. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Our Goliath article covers everything we know about him. He may have come from the city-state of Gath in Philistia. The mention of him having a brother called Lahmi is thought to have been a much later addition. Alansplodge (talk) 16:07, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What Solomon needed was Schrödinger's baby: simultaneously both women's child. Clarityfiend (talk) 14:38, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Zorro (TV series 1957)

At the ending of episode 30 of season 1, Sergeant Garcia received a royal Spanish honorificient. Can you find its name in the real-life? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.133.236 (talk) 17:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Does the episode give it a name? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:02, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's an iron cross, but you must see that episode in English to find its name and form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.133.236 (talk) 18:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is quite likely, if the award was not named, that it was a generic prop used by the TV series, and not intended to be historically accurate. The Walt Disney Company, who produced the TV series, was not known for scrupulous historical detail. --Jayron 32 18:19, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But can you search for it in 1820's Spanish royal iron crosses? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.133.236 (talk) 18:44, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read Orders, decorations, and medals of Spain? See if you can recognise any of the emblems or medal ribbons there from the TV episode you watched (which probably few if any responders here have access to). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.210.77 (talk) 18:55, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please, can you confront it, since I don't have time? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.133.236 (talk) 19:12, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The episode (available on Disney+) refers to it as the "Medal of the Royal Yeoman", which doesn't seem to actually exist, and the pictured medal (a Maltese cross sort of thing) isn't pictured in that article, and is probably just a generic medal prop. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 22:00, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You "don't have time"? How badly do you want to know the answer? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:53, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, the questioner has no time to reply. --Lambiam 10:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In any case, "Yeoman" is a specifically English word and concept, which almost certainly would not be applicable in any Spanish context and would not be an appropriate English translation, and the term "Iron cross" has strong German connotations in the English speaking world (although Belgium also has such an award). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.221.195.5 (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As for historical accuraccy, let's just say that there is a whole season or so about a separatist lodge led by "the Eagle" that actually succeeded to secede California from Spain and declare it an independent state. Needless to say, not even remotely based on any historical events. Cambalachero (talk) 14:54, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Happy Memorial Day

An acquaintance (living in the US but not originally from here) just emailed, wishing me a happy Memorial day. Of course I appreciated the sentiment but given the nature of the holiday, the incongruity made me smile. Is there a more appropriate expression for the same idea, and should I let the person know? Thanks. 2602:243:2007:9990:8A6:A89B:8B0A:E2B1 (talk) 21:57, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just wait a few weeks and reply with “Wishing you a merry Flag Day” Blueboar (talk) 22:09, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Courtesy links for unAmericans - Memorial Day and Flag Day (United States). DuncanHill (talk) 22:51, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem incongruous, but it has evolved into the first holiday of the summer season. Whether to wish someone a "happy" Memorial Day might depend on whether anyone in their family died in combat. If so, probably not the best kind of greeting. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:57, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is not forbidden to enjoy Memorial Day. It creates a three-day weekend for most people in the United States. Therefore, it is a mini-holiday. People are expected to have fun and enjoy themselves. You can argue that they are celebrating the freedom given by those who died in military service. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 16:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anzac Day in Australia is apparently rather celebratory; Australian visitors to the UK are sometimes surprised by the sombre tone of our Remembrance Sunday. Alansplodge (talk) 08:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Violence against international students in China

International students have money and local Chinese youths have no money and they are angry at the CCP for their situation. Do jobless Chinese youths express their anger at the CCP (Communist Party of China) by beating up international students and steal their money & bank cards in China? 45.58.91.95 (talk) 22:48, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably some do. It's an really big country with a lot of people, and some of them are probably that sort of asshole. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 23:06, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

When a penniless Chinese person, young or old, commits violent robbery in China, my first idea would be that they do this to obtain money and not to express anger at the CCP, regardless of the victim's nationality and educational status. --Lambiam 10:11, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If this happens, it has apparently escaped the notice of the internet, as far as I can tell. Alansplodge (talk) 15:42, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Our article on Crime in China gives some information but honestly it is not very good. And unfortunately mainland China does not participate in the International Crime Victims Survey, so we do not have good comparative data on crime rates there. But violent crime against foreign nationals is extremely low in mainland China, especially in the major cities where international students are found. For example, this blogpost by a then-respected magazine says "Beijing is usually considered to be extremely safe by expats". I was an international student in China for several years, and lived there for a decade, and I don't think I ever heard of an international student being attacked for their money. I am also puzzled by your assumption that young Chinese people would attack international students because they opposed the government. When I did hear of attacks on foreigners, they were usually aligned with official campaigns, as in the wave of attacks reported here by the South China Morning Post. Matt's talk 21:17, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 1

Official Maps for Qinghai and Gansu

Are there any up-to-date official maps published by the Chinese government (PRC) of Chinese provinces particularly Qinghai and Gansu available online? StellarHalo (talk) 01:34, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese rokuyō (6-day cycle)

Who invented the Japanese rokuyō (六曜) system, and how was it decided which day is when? Why does the sequence get disrupted at the beginning of a new lunar month?

Today, June 1, 2023, is "butsumetsu" (仏滅). How was it decided that this particular day is "butsumetsu"? And what is a "butsumetsu" day supposed to be good for? Staying in bed all day? 2601:18A:C500:E830:5810:7A20:571F:3C3 (talk) 07:05, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have you looked at Japanese calendar#Rokuyō? It doesn't answer all your questions, but it says how they are calculated. ColinFine (talk) 10:01, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know how they are calculated. Add the "kyuureki" (old lunar calendar) month to the "kyuureki" day of the month, then take the remainder modulo six. When this remainder is five, you get a "butsumetsu" day. But, why are they calculated this way? Why add the month to the day of the month? Why not subtract, or ignore the month altogether? Why modulo six, rather than modulo some other number? Why is "butsumetsu" associated with a remainder of five, rather than some other remainder? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18A:C500:E830:858E:5CCE:81A4:1D07 (talk) 00:32, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For the origin and use of the system see [6]. Other websites say the reset is back to Sensho at the end of the lunar month, for example [7]. The website has a calculator from 1900-2100 at [8] but the lunar dates are not listed. To settle the matter I overlaid the 6-day week against the lunar calendar of the Eastern Orthodox Church. The columns are respectively (1) Month number (2) Name (3) Number of days (4) Gregorian date of first day (5) Day in 6-day week:

Month number	Name	Number of days	Gregorian date of first day	Day in 6-day week
1	Harriet	29	23 January 2023	tomobiki
2	Ronan	30	21 February	senbu
3	Miri	29	23 March	senbu
4	James	30	21 April	butsumetsu
5	Eloise	29	21 May	taian
6	Thomas	30	19 June	shakko
7		29	19 July	sensho
8	Nicholas	30	17 August	tomobiki
9	Catherine	29	16 September	senbu
10	Richard	30	15 October	senbu
11	Emma	29	14 November	taian
12	Paul I	30	13 December	taian
13	Paul II*	30	12 January 2024	sensho

Leap month occurs before the start of years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 19 of the metonic cycle

As an aside, Orthodox Easter falls (until 2099) between the 19th and 25th day of Miri, so on 16 April this year. 92.21.195.15 (talk) 18:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that the original idea was to divide each 30-day month into five six-day weeks. This pattern is disrupted at the end of a 29-day month. It can be restored by skipping a day, thus introducing the system of recalibrating the sequence at the beginning of each month. The following features are either incidental or planned:

The year begins with Shenso (the first day of the 6-day week) on the first day of the first month.
There is a smooth transition from the last day of the twelfth month to the first day of the first month of the following year as it is identical to the transition from the last day of the sixth month to the first day of the seventh.
Buddha's birthday on the fifteenth day of the second month is butsumetsu. Other Buddhist calendars seem to be based on the sidereal zodiac which does not allow for Precession of the Equinoxes. Thus the corresponding date in Burma, the fifteenth day of the second Hindu month Vaisakha, is a public holiday (3 May in 2023).
Moon Viewing Day on the fifteenth day of the eighth month is butsumetsu.

To incorporate these features not using this system would be difficult or impossible. The calculator shows that it takes intercalation in its stride. Although there is a readjustment on 20 February 2023 (month 2, day 1) and 20 April 2023 (month 3, day 1 according to the modulo) there is none in March. It looks as if the intercalary month necessary to keep the new moon within its related zodiacal sign (of which about seven are needed every 19 years) has been added. It is of note that at this time the new moon is positioned very near to the cusp of the relevant zodiacal sign (Aquarius/Pisces, Pisces/Aries, Aries/Taurus). I believe that the Chinese calendar does not duplicate either the twelfth or the first month in this way. 92.21.195.15 (talk) 13:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Who are the people listed in the Name column? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:07, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Castle

Can you help me to find the name of the castle in the background? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.220.97 (talk) 16:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's barely discernible. I don't think you will be able to get an answer based on such a poor picture. And, as discussed when you raised similar questions in the past, it's most likely an entirely fictional design. Xuxl (talk) 18:12, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, it's most likely a fictional design, but it does bear a resemblance to Neuschwanstein Castle which is often used as a basis/inspiration for such designs and has featured in multiple films. Waggers TALK 13:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't seen that castle. Can you search better for the last time? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.201.255 (talk) 21:35, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The image you linked is clearly not an official promotional image for the next chapter of the manga. Also, the castle looks nothing like the manor associated with the character on the image. The castle is most likely the Yokosuka Castle in the third annual non-canon movie especially since it burned due to arson in the last act. Of course, the characters even made a lampshade remark about how it resembles the Neuschwanstein Castle. StellarHalo (talk) 06:47, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 2

The bride says yes, or else!

I have been watching Spider-Man (1994 TV series), and in one episode Peter Parker is getting married with Mary Jane. Harry Osbourne (former boyfriend of Mary Jane) gets so angry that he takes his late father's Green Goblin villain identity, attack the church and forces everybody out, but keeps Mary Jane and the priest inside. His plan was to get married with Mary Jane, and he would kill them both if they don't go on with the ceremony. Fortunately, things got solved by talking, and he willingly returns to the mental institution he was in.

...but just to be sure, let's say that Spider-Man could not defeat the robots in time and the priest got to the point of "I now pronounce you husband and wife". Such a marriage, made so blatantly under duress, would be completely null and void, right? Both from a legal and a religious perspective?

It should be clear, but just in case: this is set in New York, United States, and there would be dozens of witnesses of the villain's attack if needed be. Cambalachero (talk) 14:08, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In a fictional story, the author makes the rules. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:45, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cambalachero: See https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/domestic-relations-law/dom-sect-140.html It is not automatically void, but the bride may request an anulment in this case. "An action to annul a marriage on the ground that the consent of one of the parties thereto was obtained by force or duress may be maintained at any time by the party whose consent was so obtained." This is a real-world law, the law in the spider-man universe may be different. RudolfRed (talk) 16:53, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was just making clear that I'm not asking for legal advise, I simply saw an episode on TV and that aroused my curiosity over that detail. What about religion? If someone gets married under duress and against her will, is she married under the eyes of God? Cambalachero (talk) 17:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which God? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:04, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cambalachero: The situation regarding civil law has been made clear by RudolfRed. Where God's possible points of view, there do exist Ecclesiastical Laws (or "Canon" laws), in which a notion of appeal is not an alien one (see Rehabilitation trial of Joan of Arc) --Askedonty (talk) 19:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think in this fictional situation, an important point is your mention that ". . . he willingly returns to the mental institution he was in."

Did anyone else in the story indicate that they thought such a marriage would be valid? If so, then either the writers were relying on viewers' temporary suspension of disbelief, or they were under a rather foolish misapprehension themselves. Such coerced marriages have been the stock of melodramatic fiction for (probably many) centuries; that doesn't mean they are viable in the real modern world, and one would think not in the Marvel version of 1990s New York or wherever. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.221.195.5 (talk) 02:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All of this is ignoring the fact that the Green Goblin is insane. He doesn't care about laws or religion, in his mind this would have made MJ his wife. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:27, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Photography stealing souls

Have any cultures actually believed that photography steals the soul of the subject, or is it just another western stereotype of a "primitive native belief"? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 14:51, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

When browsing Australian media (eg, the SMH) I frequently see a note by the publisher which warns indigenous readers that the content of the subsequent article may be offensive.
There are a number of regulars from Down Under on this ref desk who may elaborate on the precise meaning. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 15:37, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Hence a particular joke on the subject in Crocodile Dundee. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:43, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- That's to do with names and images of deceased indigenous people. --Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 03:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

Schomburg-Scherff, Sylvia M. (2000). "The Power of Images: New Approaches to the Anthropological Study of Images". Anthropos. 5 (1): 189–99. JSTOR 40465870. citing authors for Sub-Saharan Africa and Lakota

Also in the least popular city in America. In science, they are dead last. Cambalachero (talk) 15:59, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 3

Wanted... dead or alive

When did actual lawful law enforcement agencies last advertise bounties for wanted persons "dead or alive"? DuncanHill (talk) 00:49, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

George W. Bush said on September 17, 2001 that Osama bin Laden was "wanted dead or alive". Here is a source. The Justice Department reported directly to him. I am not aware of more recent usage. Cullen328 (talk) 02:29, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But Bush wasn't "advertising a bounty", so that example isn't relevant.

Wikipedia's coverage of this is at Wanted poster#Dead or alive, but it's pretty minimal, it only cites two references, and both of them are dead. (One is archived at the Wayback Machine, so I'll update that link). --142.112.220.184 (talk) 05:48, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the Bush admistration advertised a $25 million dollar bounty for Osama bin Laden, dead or alive. Read this. Cullen328 (talk) 08:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the correction. A pity your first cite didn't mention the point; I suppose it happened later. --142.112.220.184 (talk) 08:35, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More recently, US authorities advertised a $25 million bounty on Ayman al-Zawahiri, who was killed in a drone strike on July 31. 2022, about ten months ago. Read this. Cullen328 (talk) 09:15, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd think that extrajudicial executions – not counting the intentional killing of an enemy combattant in actual combat, or the use of deadly force to counter a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm – are unlawful, and that inciting to commit such executions is a crime under US law. --Lambiam 11:02, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An actual example from 1899, surprisingly not from the Wild West:

£25 (Twenty-five Pounds stg.) is offered by the Sub-Commission of the fifth division , on behalf of the Special Constable of the said division , to anyone who brings the escaped prisioner of war CHURCHILL dead or alive to this office, For the Sub-Commission of the Fifth Division, (Signed) LODK de HAAS, Sec. [9]

Alansplodge (talk) 11:40, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An earlier US example, an advertisemet in the Wilmington (North Carolina) Advertiser seeking a runaway slave in 1838:

Ran away, my negro man Richard. A reward of twenty-five dollars will be paid for his apprehension, DEAD OR ALIVE. Satisfactory proof only required of him being killed. He has with him, in all probability, his wife Eliza. Durant H. Rhodes.

Slavery and the Internal Slave Trade in the United States of America (1841), Page 39.

Alansplodge (talk) 11:59, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to this in contrasting rewards during the Malayan Emergency and U.S. terrorism rewards: both the DoD and DOS rewards programs are limited by statute to “nonlethal” assistance. Lambian Not as illegal as might seem[10], but based on a long tradition of common law. Here's a conviction for solicitation of murder, but Offering money for killing rather than capturing a lawbreaker, regardless of the immediate threat posed, is clearly a violation of present Montana laws against solicitation, but in 1927 apparently no one challenged the right of the Montana Bankers Association to offer such blood money[11] There may have been a $2,500 "Dead or Alive" poster for Clyde Barrow[12], and the original suggestion was "Wanted Dead", but can't find if a law enforcement agency offered the reward or printed the poster (if any). fiveby(zero) 14:20, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Dead or alive" could be read "produce them alive, or produce proof that they have died". Either outcome would terminate the search, and if someone has proof of death but does not bother to produce it the unattainable search for a live person may continue, therefore it is worth rewarding proof of death. -- Verbarson ^talk_edits 21:33, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's true; in countries without a desert such notion is certainly a command to disbelief in regard with their own conditions. If reports of morbid findings there can be at the initiative of local authorities those reports obviously will not be crossing borders unless attire and belongings of the deceased explicitly appeal for it, and diplomatic ties of course allows accordingly. --Askedonty (talk) 22:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fribault, Saxony

All the old references give Richard Schomburgk's (1811) birthplace as Fribault, Saxony, which ADB translates as Freyburg, Germany, and we have followed suit. This seemed dubious, as Freyburg is an old name, but I can't find a better. Can anyone help? Doug butler (talk) 01:51, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Googling "Fribault Saxony" only gives results connected to Schomburgk; other than that "Fribault" only appears as a surname and there are no hints that Fribault is an actual place or even an alternative name for Freyburg. Given that the town of Freyburg claims Schomburgk as their own, as evidenced by this commemorative plaque, I don't see any good reason to doubt that Freyburg is his actual birthplace. It seems just about imaginable that "Fribault" could be a mishearing of "Freyburg" and there may be a fun story behind that, but that is probably difficult to reconstruct. --Wrongfilter (talk) 07:52, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are many old references to a Schomburgk family in Freyburg.^[13][14][15] --Lambiam 10:51, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Most helpful. Thanks once again. Doug butler (talk) 12:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

QAnon Shaman prison sentence

[16] The QAnon Shaman was sentenced in November 2021 to 41 months in prison and he is apparently out now, 18 months later. I'm not claiming anything about the politics or whether he did or didn't deserve such a sentence, but I thought all federal prison sentences had to be served at least 80% of the way? So I am wondering how he got out that early. The article about him doesn't say. 2601:644:8501:CF70:0:0:0:7260 (talk) 11:52, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Bureau of Prisons has not commented on the reason for his early release, but noted that recent changes to the First Step Act allows inmates to earn “up to 54 days of good conduct time for each year of the sentence imposed by the court.” Federal and state prison inmates often earn sentence reductions over the course of their time behind bars... Albert Watkins, the attorney who handled Chansley’s plea and sentencing... notes that the plea agreement and sentencing imposed by the court permitted reduced time if Chansley undertook certain programs and behaved well while confined. The early release, he says, is most likely “based on a host of factors routinely taken into consideration by the U.S. Bureau of Prisons.”

The Real Reason the Jan. 6 'QAnon Shaman' Was Released From Prison Early

Alansplodge (talk) 12:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know specifics about the USA, but in most of the world, the time spent incarcerated awaiting the outcome of the trial is also counted as prison time. He was arrested in 9 January 2021, so that's 866 days (or one more, if you count both the start date and the end date), 28 months 14 days or 69.4% of the sentence. PiusImpavidus (talk) 19:30, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely the case in the US as well. I'm lazy to dig up a source but you can see various sources like [17] and probably the Time link above (some Time source does but I didn't check it's the above) note he served 27 months not the 18 the OP said. Not sure why it's different from your 28 but one guess is you counted the time he spent on a halfway house at the time if his release. Or perhaps it's more complicated e.g. If he had day release leading up to his full release maybe only part of the day is counted. Nil Einne (talk) 19:19, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I was mistaken about Time, I simply looked a the Google snippet but the 27 months thing related to the time since the riots to the story, not how long he spent.

But reading the Politico careful, I do think they were referring only to the time he spent in prison or jail and not including the time he would spend in the "residential reentry management" although as I understand it the 25 May date he was released from this is correctly counted as the day he is released from custody since the halfway house is still considered part of federal custody.

And having looked into this a bit more, I don't think there are any complications about any day release etc programmes (if he was in them, I have no idea) although calculating time served can get very complicated [18] [19] [20] [21] [22]. But most of this seems to arise from issues like time spent in in non federal detention as well as when there are multiple charges and sentences, especially if a person is charged for one thing then later charged for something else. Other than that, there are only obvious exclusions e.g. for someone who is released or escapes, and also anyone held for civil contempt.

(There is also the complication of credit for good conduct etc. This existed before the above mentioned First Step Act but has been improved by it [23] since 54 days is now usually 54 days, although irrelevant since he was well after First Step. But in any case, this will relate to why he only spent those 27+ months but not why it was 27+ instead of 28+.)

Nil Einne (talk) 09:39, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Banned user

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I recently read a newspaper report that a judge sentenced a defendant convicted of serious crime to so many years and an arbitrary number of days (whatever it was). I pondered over this for a few minutes before concluding that he had probably decided on a sentence of a round number of years and subtracted from it the time spent in custody, so that he actually would serve that number of years, but wouldn't that in fact reduce the term because time spent in custody is automatically deducted? Many years ago a newspaper reported that a magistrate had sentenced a defendant to a certain number of days before adding "and as this is the number of days you have been in custody you are free to go." In this country, given prison overcrowding, it is routine to release prisoners after they have served half their sentence. 2A02:C7C:38C1:3600:ACCF:3F82:63F1:1958 (talk) 10:47, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"In this country" – and where might that be? Sorry to pick you up on that but this wiki in particular has a global readership. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:41, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Geolocates to London (England, that is). Does the IP's characterization sound correct for England? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

what were Louis VIII of France's heraldic arms?

Several non-English, non-French Wikipedias use File:Azure semé-de-lys or.svg as the coat of arms of Mr. VIII. That file is named "semé-de-lys", but it is not semé-de-lys, it depicts just two fleurs-de-lis in pale at the bottom of a big blank blue shield. So, what were his arms? Did he bear just two lis flowers at the bottom of an empty blue field, like in the image, in which case I'll request the file be renamed on Commons? Or were his arms semé-de-lys, like the title of the image and like the arms of the Kings of France Ancien, in which case the wikis using the two-lis image need to be updated? -sche (talk) 18:02, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The poor boy would have felt too miserable by sunney weather under the gaze à les gentes dames [24]! No, there seems there is some sort of problem instead with software handling the picture svg organization sheme, or/and in its conversion to png. The png preview from the depiction page leads to a very reasonable "semis-de-lys" but at https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Azure_sem%C3%A9-de-lys_or.svg --Askedonty (talk) 18:56, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reasonable this means that the browser/navigator is reading the svg properly. So; etc. --Askedonty (talk) 20:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see! Thank you. I'll ask on Commons if someome can fix it. -sche (talk) 20:40, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

* Case swiftly solved by user:Ilzolende at Common's Graphic Lab (before day, closed 5 June 2023) --Askedonty (talk) 16:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 4

Street in Tashkent, 1920

A number of sources about the exiled Indian revolutionaries in 1920 mentions that the 'India House' in Tashkent was located on 'Lavmentev Road'. The house was supposedly located on the verge of the old and new Tashkent. But I find zero mentions of 'Lavmentev' road in Tashkent, in fact I see no hits for 'Lavmentev' neither in English or Russian except for when talking about the India House. This must be a typo that has been reproduced. But what was the real street name? -- Soman (talk) 15:57, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever that building was, does it still exist? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:31, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unlikely, even before the earthquake of 1966 destruction of the older parts of the city in the name of improvement and sovietisation was rife. DuncanHill (talk) 10:22, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It immediately looks like a typo for Lavrentev. I haven't found a "Lavrentev St" in Tashkent, but there seems to be one in Jizzakh, so it's plausible that there was one in Tashkent at some time. ColinFine (talk) 18:32, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find the street either, but Lavrentev is certainly a common surname in that neck of the woods. Alansplodge (talk) 09:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But aren't the contemporary Lavrentev streets generally named after Soviet scientist? --Soman (talk) 12:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The October Revolution & 70 Years of Indo-Soviet Relations, Vinod Bhatia (1987) Page 41 says (snippet view):

The Turkestan Soviet put at their disposal the palatial building of the former embassy of the Amir of Bokhara, renamed as Indoosky Dom (Indian House).

The last Emir of Bukhara was Sayyid Mir Muhammad Alim Khan who was deposed in 1920. I have been unable to determine whether the embassy building still exists. Alansplodge (talk) 10:14, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen a mention of it as "former house of Ivanov", Ivanov presumably being Nikolai Ivanov (entrepreneur). Tashkent was taken by the Russians in 1865, so the Embassy may have ceased being an embassy then. DuncanHill (talk) 10:38, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Now our article Tashkent mentions that "A cantonment and Russian settlement were built across the Ankhor Canal from the old city" so that may give us a clew as to the location of "Lavmentev" Road. If only we had a contemporary map of the city. DuncanHill (talk) 10:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indian Freedom Fighters in Tashkent (1918-1922) by Dilorom Karomat (2020) (which has the Ivanov mention) has a photograph of "Party club and committee in the Old city of Tashkent 1920s". Whether or not this is the Indiyskiy Dom I could not say. The buildings in the picture do have signs on them, which it is possible someone may be able to read. DuncanHill (talk) 10:54, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've found two sources giving the address of the India House as Lermontov Street, which was "in a new section of Tashkent" but "not far from the heart of the town". Any help? --Antiquary (talk) 11:14, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lermontov Street, Tashkent appears to be even more elusive that Lavmentev Street! DuncanHill (talk) 11:53, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lermontov Street appears here: https://books.google.at/books?id=PVn7AgAAQBAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PA88 The source is from 1925, I'm not 100% sure of what is being listed. The India House would presumably been abandonned by then, so no surpise if it isn't listed. --Soman (talk) 12:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per [25] (p. 113) Oleg Erberg [ru] lived on Lermontov Street, 15 in 1942 (so the street would have kept its name in Soviet period). --Soman (talk) 13:02, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Can't find it here https://www.goldenpages.uz/uz/streets/ , however, in list of post-independence street name changes. --Soman (talk) 13:27, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A FB post says "Там, где киоски и стоит фургон - это улица Шипкинская -Почтовая - Алексея Толстого. Мы спускались по Лермонтовской (именно спускались, там был спкск от Пушкинской). Попадали на перекрёсток -типа площадки. Туда "вливались" Бородинская, Лермонтовская и Алексея Толстого. Затем шли мимо этих киосков (там иногда покупали кислое молоко) к молочному павильону. Одноклассницы жили слева и справа от павильона. Первой от Бородинской была забегаловка - пивнушка." Pushkin Avenue is now Mustaliq Avenure [ru]. Tolstoy street would have become Oloy ko'chasi in 2010, but can't find it in google maps but per goldenpages its in the Mirzo-Ulug'bek (which would be near Mustaliq Av.). Borodin Street per goldenpages now Xalqobod ko'chasi, in Unusobod sector (just north of Mizro Ulubeg). --Soman (talk) 13:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://mytashkent.uz/2010/10/17/ulitsa-pochtovaya-istoriya-pochtovaya/ , here with a map where Lermontov St appears. (also https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/f/f7/Tashkent_1932_%214.jpg ) --Soman (talk) 13:57, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 5

How were albino slaves treated during the Antebellum South?

How were black slaves with albinism treated in the Southern United States before the Civil War, were they made house slaves? 95.144.204.68 (talk) 19:24, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How do you know there were any? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:39, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to the numbers given in Albinism_in_humans#Epidemiology it seems not unlikely that there were some. --Wrongfilter (talk) 19:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I googled the subject "albino slaves", and this link has some interesting general facts.[26] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wine industry questions.

Vast majority of the most expensive wines come from red grapes, how do the most expensive wines that come from green and dark blue grapes compare? It seems the top 5 most expensive wines all come from red grapes.

Many red wines claim to be from red grapes such as Shiroz and Pinot Noir, but upon looking at their articles, they all look dark blue color. Who classifies them as red grapes? To me, I would classify them as dark blue grapes.

I also hear grapes used as table grapes are different varieties than grapes used as wine, how sizeable is the overlap? I hear Muscat is the most common grape variety used for both table grapes and wine. Thanks. 170.76.231.162 (talk) 20:29, 5 June 2023 (UTC).[reply]

Prices of platinum vs. gold

Here's a table map of Pt and Au prices. https://www.macrotrends.net/2541/platinum-prices-vs-gold-prices

Pt used to be more expensive than gold in the 1990s and 2000s, but since 2015, gold has since been worth more. I'm not gonna ask why was there a big drop in Pt prices in 2009, because it had an unexpected rise too. But after 2015, Pt prices has been slightly dropping and remaining constant while gold continues to rise, what caused platinum to change? And what does the automobile industry have to do with it. EV batteries don't seem to require platinum, as catalytic convert thefts have been on the rise since 2020. In any event, does anyone think platinum will be worth more than gold some day? 170.76.231.162 (talk) 20:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC).[reply]

As to the second question: "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." --142.112.220.184 (talk) 22:05, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why didn't other juice companies turn co-op in 1940s besides Welch?

By 1945, in order to circumvent wartime restrictions on corporate profits and price controls, Welch's turned into a co-op. The new organization would not only be immune from federal corporation taxes and pricing dictates, but would also guarantee his processing company a reliable supply of grapes.

^ So those were advantages for corporations to turn co-op. Why didn't other juice companies like Dole and Tropicana turn co-op? They still stayed as corporation. Heh. 170.76.231.162 (talk) 20:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC).[reply]

Car industry, revive old car models?

When you have car makes and models, like Nissan Altima. Has a car make ever discontinued a model, and then years later, revived it, but under a different name? 170.76.231.162 (talk) 21:47, 5 June 2023 (UTC).[reply]

[1] ttps://www.cegesoma.be/docs/media/chtp_beg/chtp_08/chtp8_011_lapiower.pdf

[2] ttps://infocenters.co.il/gfh/notebook_ext.asp?book=93620&lang=eng&site=gfh

[3] ttps://networks.h-net.org/node/2622/links/25365/centre-de-documentation-juive-contemporaine-m%C3%A9morial-de-la-shoah

[1]

[2]

[3]