Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/History
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The result was no consensus. Star Mississippi 22:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Serfdom in Tibet controversy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This is a fairly unusual XfD but I submit that this article is based in large part on original research, despite citing a decent number of sources. The entire article plays out as a tit-for-tat "China says this" vs "Tibet exile/apologist says that" and there isn't really an attempt to actually frame anything within the context of "what actually happened".
It's understandable to say "the issue is contentious" but when the entire article becomes a matter of paraphrasing different POVs, there's very little that a reader can actually take out of the article. The only "real" encyclopedic piece of work I can see is "Tibetan welfare after the Chinese takeover", which itself does not seem particularly germane to the question of whether serfdom existed in Tibet prior to 1951, other than, perhaps, insinuating that the Chinese government does not care about Tibet or rather that the Tibetan social structure is so rigid that reforms have only been partially successful. Regardless, it does not feel as if this segment is appropriate for inclusion as a matter of historicity.
The same topic is covered to some length in the article Social class in Tibet, which approaches a similar topic from a perspective much more aligned with the standards on Wikipedia. I understand that approaching an article entitled "Controversy" is understandably difficult, but articles like Investiture Controversy and Controversy in Russia regarding the legitimacy of eastward NATO expansion handle their respective topics with substantially more grace and include the proper historical context instead of devolving eventually to namedropping entities and/or historians and assigning respective quotations without any contextualization as to what they mean. Augend (drop a line) 22:07, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature, Philosophy, History, Buddhism, Geography, Social science, Asia, and Central Asia. Augend (drop a line) 22:07, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Weak keep & rewrite. Regardless of whether serfdom has or has not existed in Tibet, the topic has gained enough traction and is notable. A quick search of "serfdom in Tibet" on Google Scholar brings up loads of articles: [1]. Social class in Tibet is a suitable article, but I think this topic deserves its own page.
- That being said, if this article survives AfD, it will need to be significantly rewritten. Definitely don't make WP:POV forks out of it, but then I agree that there must be significant effort to compare POVs into a coherent article. We can also jettison the "Human rights in Tibet" section. Cheers, --The Lonely Pather (talk) 23:30, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep & rewrite. I'd mostly agree with The Lonely Panther's position here, that the debate itself deserves its own article, mostly even just to keep track of all the perspectives on the issues. The 'serfdom controversy' is significant enough on its own, as seen by the size of the literature, to deserve a separate article from Chinese administration in Tibet and the controversy over that.
- Potential rewrite could for sure use a lot more definitions and information on the structure, prevalence, and development of class structures throughout Tibetan history. Additionally more detail on exactly which historical events contain 'competing versions of Tibetan History', such as the disagreements over the nature of the 1959 Tibetan Uprising, is vital. Literal sun (talk) 18:00, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. Cunard (talk) 12:53, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 04:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was keep. ✗plicit 12:03, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- Italian soft power (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This page is created to defame the the country mentioned in it and not only this page but the author Ghalbeyakh of this page created and edited multiple pages to defame the respected parties such as Qatari soft power, Qatari involvement in higher education in the United States, Soft power and more. These are the pages edited by the author which seems to have a propaganda against a nation/party. some of his edits are marked as vandalism already. This author particularly seems to harming the authenticity of the Wikipedia policies. I would like to have a chance to prove this. Isouf Qaleed (talk) 06:45, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Automated comment: This AfD cannot be processed correctly because of an issue with the header. Please make sure the header has only 1 article, and doesn't have any HTML encoded characters.—cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 06:50, 3 February 2024 (UTC)- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 February 3. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 07:07, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: I have repaired the malformed syntax in the header (and somehow, I don't think using substitution was intended in that manner, anyway). No opinion on the article. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 07:28, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Arts, Food and drink, Language, Architecture, History, and Italy. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 07:29, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. At first glance this looks like someone's college term paper, but the citations already in the article demonstrate that "Italian soft power" and "Italy's soft power" is a headline term of discussion in multiple independent reliable sources. I don't agree with the nominator that this article defames Italy; on the contrary. Persingo (talk) 08:52, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. As Persingo says, the article appears to be supported by valid sources, and I don't see anything defamatory here. If the author has vandalized other articles, that can be taken up there. P Aculeius (talk) 11:53, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Keep. Like I wrote in the deletion vote for Qatari soft power, I have recently been studying soft power around the world and decided to write this article as part of my research. I've gone ahead and written up this article, using third-party sources I thought were reliable. I know it is not ready yet, but I decided to upload it in its current form anyway so other editors who are knowledgeable in this topic could contribute. Ghalbeyakh (talk) 17:32, 3 February 2024 (UTC)Blocked sock. MarioGom (talk) 09:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)- Keep. The article should probably be downgraded to start-class, but the topic is certainly of encyclopaedic value, as I suspect articles on most countries' soft power would be. As a WP:ATD, I can't see an obvious target for a redirect or merge (Foreign relations of Italy might come closest). See also Soft power of China. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 20:50, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. This seems to be a legitimate topic in foreign affairs, and it seems to be decently cited. The citations in the article show that it is notable, and I'm frankly not seeing any WP:NPOV issues in the present text. And, even if there were, when editing can get rid of them, and the topic is notable, then we should edit rather than delete the whole thing. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 16:36, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- To make it easier for the closing administrator, three sources that demonstrate SIGCOV may include "Italy's 'soft' Power" (a chapter in an academic history book about modern Italy), pages 390-393 of "Culture and identity, basic reference for European and Italian diplomacy" (an academic journal article), and "The Italian language: soft power or dolce potere?" (an academic journal article analyzing aspects of Italian soft power relating to the Italian language). — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:19, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 04:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- John of Ibelin (died after 1250) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No indication of notability, no sources given. Even the name doesn't disambiguate correctly from John II, Lord of Beirut, and all sources I can find are about other Johns of Ibelin (often either the aforementioned or John, Old Lord of Beirut). ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 03:36, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Royalty and nobility, and Cyprus. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 03:36, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete - 10-minute search for sources at the usual locations only finds incidental mentions as part of the Ibelin house family trees. Page created in 2008 with a request for sources (infobox) present on the page since 2008... I doubt strongly this page meets notability criteria for an individual page - Mention as a member of the family tree is already present on House of Ibelin, which appears sufficient. Shazback (talk) 03:46, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:18, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Timeline of sovereign states in Europe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I don't know whether this is an article or a list, but nevertheless it is a poorly organised mess of synthesis and original research. The term "sovereign state" does not even have a meaning for most of the periods this timeline purports to cover. Nice colours, though. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Lists, and Europe. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete This is a great idea for a graph of some sort, if it had some solid sources. But it will never be a good idea for a wikitext table. I count 100 columns and 40++ rows, making it more appropriate for a wall than a browser. To quote Indiana Jones: "It belongs in a museum!" Wizmut (talk) 08:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Horribly organized. NavjotSR (talk) 07:48, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Per nomination. While it may look cool, it doesn't seem appropriate due to it's poor structure. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁=☁=✈) 07:05, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was redirect Sudhanoti to Sudhanoti District and delete First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir on October 4,1947. Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:26, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Sudhanoti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Largely unverifiable. I can't find references to "Jassi Khan Siddozai", "Sidhnuti"[2], Sudhanoti combined with 1407[3]...
The same applies to other creations by same editor or around same topics, e.g. in First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir on October 4,1947, I checked the first two and the last sources, and neither mentions Sidhnuti or Sudhanoti. Fram (talk) 08:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC) Also nominated:
If these creations are indeed problematic, then the relevant edits to other articles like Sudhan and Sudhanoti District need to be reverted as well, and their other edits checked. Fram (talk) 08:40, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: History, Royalty and nobility, and Pakistan. Fram (talk) 08:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Respected, as I have quoted in this article Pirzada Irshad Ahmad's book (Handbook on Azad Jammu and Kashmir) from Nawab Jassi Khan's capture of Pounch to establishing his government near Bhan and this The details of naming Sidhnuti are available from pages 150 to 156. See the link
- https://www.google.com/search?q=Nawab+Jassi+tribe&client=ms-android-samsung-gj-rev1&sca_esv=4f6f0c95dc8e20e4&biw=384&bih=714&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ACQVn08rZ_BeRhSG4C71rsfhcYwgdN5S_A%3A1706953110807&ei=lgm-ZY_pMNHnxc8P-d-hiAk&oq=Nawab+Jassi+tribe&gs_lp=Eg9tb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXNlcnAiEU5hd2FiIEphc3NpIHRyaWJlMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIESN89UKsJWPA0cAB4AJABAJgBvQagAdAfqgELMi0yLjQuMC4xLjK4AQPIAQD4AQGKAhltb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwLW1vZGVzwgIEEB4YCsICBBAjGCeIBgE&sclient=mobile-gws-serp
- Second, the first government of Azad Kashmir was established in Palindri tehsil of Sudhanoti District and it was the area that first became independent from the Dogra continuum in present-day Azad Kashmir. As mentioned in this article, Siddhavanti was a district of Jammu province of Jammu and Kashmir from 1940 to 1947. The first capital of Azad Kashmir was established here. For references, see the book Prospects for Peace in South Asia
- https://books.google.com.sa/books?id=TwO9zmj6aQ0C&pg=PA115&dq=What+is+the+old+capital+of+AJK?&hl=ur&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEwaH8iI-EAxWYcvEDHUyWA7A4FBDoAXoECAcQAw#v=onepage&q=What%20is%20the%20old%20capital%20of%20AJK%3F&f=false مشرا (talk) 12:26, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- That first source doesn't even mention Sidhnuti[4] or the year 1407[5], so it's hardly a good reference for an article about a country supposedly established in 1407. The second source doesn't mention Sidhnuti or Sudhanoti. There is no evidence that reliable sources ever call this the "First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir" or that any entity is called "Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir". There is also no evidence that a government was established on 4 October, the source you provide gives the date 24 October for the establishment of the Government of Azad Kashmir (page 115). Fram (talk) 08:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- Book Pakistan-1967
- World Historian Ian Melville Stephens
- The movement of Azad Kashmir was actually the movement of Sidhnuti, which after the Sidhnuti rebellion, this movement changed into the movement of Azad Kashmir Page 200 link book 👇
- https://www.google.com/search?q=Sudhnuti+revolt+-+which+later+evolved+into+the+%27+Azad+Kashmir+%27+movements+had+sent+men+across+the+Indus+plain+into+Pathan+tribal+territory+to+seek+arms+.+At+this+time+%2C+and+on+into+November+%2C+the+future+political+relations+%28+if+any+%29+of+.&client=ms-android-samsung-gj-rev1&sca_esv=82c0f5fcf9e8a56e&biw=384&bih=714&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ACQVn0-hxoUu5w455Bz4NldMyxjyNnYYbQ%3A1707149297086&ei=8QfBZd_sBNiBxc8PytuckAs&oq=Sudhnuti+revolt+-+which+later+evolved+into+the+%27+Azad+Kashmir+%27+movements+had+sent+men+across+the+Indus+plain+into+Pathan+tribal+territory+to+seek+arms+.+At+this+time+%2C+and+on+into+November+%2C+the+future+political+relations+%28+if+any+%29+of+.&gs_lp=Eg9tb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXNlcnAi7gFTdWRobnV0aSByZXZvbHQgLSB3aGljaCBsYXRlciBldm9sdmVkIGludG8gdGhlICcgQXphZCBLYXNobWlyICcgbW92ZW1lbnRzIGhhZCBzZW50IG1lbiBhY3Jvc3MgdGhlIEluZHVzIHBsYWluIGludG8gUGF0aGFuIHRyaWJhbCB0ZXJyaXRvcnkgdG8gc2VlayBhcm1zIC4gQXQgdGhpcyB0aW1lICwgYW5kIG9uIGludG8gTm92ZW1iZXIgLCB0aGUgZnV0dXJlIHBvbGl0aWNhbCByZWxhdGlvbnMgKCBpZiBhbnkgKSBvZiAuSP0iULsJWK0ZcAB4AJABBJgBngOgAdQQqgEFMy01LjG4AQPIAQD4AQGKAhltb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwLW1vZGVzqAIAwgIEECMYJ8ICBRAhGKABiAYB&sclient=mobile-gws-serp مشرا (talk) 16:10, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- That first source doesn't even mention Sidhnuti[4] or the year 1407[5], so it's hardly a good reference for an article about a country supposedly established in 1407. The second source doesn't mention Sidhnuti or Sudhanoti. There is no evidence that reliable sources ever call this the "First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir" or that any entity is called "Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir". There is also no evidence that a government was established on 4 October, the source you provide gives the date 24 October for the establishment of the Government of Azad Kashmir (page 115). Fram (talk) 08:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- The first thing is to check this article again
- Because in this article
- First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir on October 4,1947
- It is clearly written that no government was established in Sidhnuti on October 4, 1947. Rather, on October 4, 1947, Siddhnuti, when all the areas of present-day Azad Kashmir were the first to be freed from Dogra continuity, the Azad Kashmir government was announced in Siddhnuti on October 4, 1947.
- The government was established on 24 October 1947 at Chonjal Hill town of [Pallandri Tehsil] of Sudhanoti District.
- The main reason for this was that on October 4, 1947, there was no parliamentary house in Siddhnuti from which the system of government could be run.
- Therefore, this temporary government structure was started from Moti Mahal in Rawalpindi.
- After which this rebel revolutionary government prepared a 40-room Parliament House at Sidhnuti Chunjal Hill within twenty days.
- Subsequently, on 24 October 1947, the same government was shifted from Moti Mahal in Rawalpindi to Sidhnuti Chonjal Hill.
- If you want more information then on October 4, 1947 the government announced in Sidhnuti
- And on October 24, 1947, a whole book has been written on the government that was established in Palindri of Sidhanuti, you can visit it by opening the link.
- https://www.academia.edu/43135608/Azad_Kashmir_is_it_Azad
- _______
- Secondly, the movement of Azad Kashmir was actually the movement of the Siddhnuti state because Siddhnuti has been an independent and independent state for many centuries.
- That is why people believed in his independence.
- I am not saying this, but all this is found in the history of world intellectuals. For references, see British historian (Ian Melville Stephens) book (Pakistan) 👇 https://www.google.com/search?q=Sudhnuti+ revolt&client=ms-android-samsung-gj-rev1&sca_esv=82c0f5fcf9e8a56e&biw=384&bih=714&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ACQVn08shxb3dVqOHMG6pvwM9yfbqJf7KQ%3A1706901368404&ei=eD-9ZZKZGOrBxc8Pn4O4iAM &udm=&oq=Sudhnuti+revolt&gs_lp=Eg9tb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXNlcnAiD1N1ZGhudXRpIHJldm9sdDIEECMYJ0jqTFD-M1igQHAAeACQAQCYAY0GoAH1HqoBCTMtMy4xLjMuMbgBA8gBAPgBAYoCGW1vYmlsZS1nd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAtbW9kZXOIBgE &sclient=mobile-gws-serp
- In which he writes that the movement of Azad Kashmir was actually the Sidhnuti rebellion and the movement of Sidhnuti which later turned into the Azad Kashmir movement.
- Such is the founding president of Azad Kashmir
- Sardar Ibrahim Khan
- He also writes in his book The Kashmir Saga. See the link👇
- https://www.google.com/search?q=Sudhnuti+revolt+--+which+later+evolved+into+the+Azad+Kashmir+%27+movement+--+had+sent+men+across+the+Indus+Plain+into+Pathan+tribal+territory+to+seek+arms+.+At+this+time+%2C+and+on+into+November+%2C+the+future+political+relations+%28+if+any+%29&client=ms-android-samsung-gj-rev1&sca_esv=82c0f5fcf9e8a56e&biw=384&bih=770&tbm=bks&sxsrf=ACQVn0_0hEbhy4AYGoiLbint4SaCWdPv2g%3A1707146269720&ei=HfzAZe-2K4-A9u8PrdSF2Ak&oq=Sudhnuti+revolt+--+which+later+evolved+into+the+Azad+Kashmir+%27+movement+--+had+sent+men+across+the+Indus+Plain+into+Pathan+tribal+territory+to+seek+arms+.+At+this+time+%2C+and+on+into+November+%2C+the+future+political+relations+%28+if+any+%29&gs_lp=Eg9tb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXNlcnAi6gFTdWRobnV0aSByZXZvbHQgLS0gd2hpY2ggbGF0ZXIgZXZvbHZlZCBpbnRvIHRoZSBBemFkIEthc2htaXIgJyBtb3ZlbWVudCAtLSBoYWQgc2VudCBtZW4gYWNyb3NzIHRoZSBJbmR1cyBQbGFpbiBpbnRvIFBhdGhhbiB0cmliYWwgdGVycml0b3J5IHRvIHNlZWsgYXJtcyAuIEF0IHRoaXMgdGltZSAsIGFuZCBvbiBpbnRvIE5vdmVtYmVyICwgdGhlIGZ1dHVyZSBwb2xpdGljYWwgcmVsYXRpb25zICggaWYgYW55IClI9hNQ9wpY9wpwAHgAkAEAmAEAoAEAqgEAuAEDyAEA-AEBigIZbW9iaWxlLWd3cy13aXotc2VycC1tb2Rlc6gCAA&sclient=mobile-gws-serp مشرا (talk) 15:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion about Nawab Jassi Khan's rule in Sidhnuti has been answered by Pir Irshad's book. I have no more time to work on this free project. Do with this article as you see fit. Thanks, this is the last discussion from me. مشرا (talk) 09:21, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Academia.edu is not a reliable source, anyone can post there, and even then the source you give[6] doesn't even mention Sudhanoti/Sidhnuti... Your source about the Sidhnuti revolt[7] doesn't mention e.g. 1407, so I guess it is about the 4 October government? The quote you give at least mentions Sidhnuti, but that's it. Your second book, "The Kashmir Saga", literally repeats the first book. Do you have any reliable source for the independent kingdom founded in 1407? Fram (talk) 08:12, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the guide, there is an article on State Siddhanoti on Urdu Wikipedia. How about linking this article to the Sudhanoti article on the English Wikipedia? Link to article on State of Sudhnuti on Urdu Wikipedia👇
- سدھنوتی ریاست
- https://ur.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B3%D8%AF%DA%BE%D9%86%D9%88%D8%AA%DB%8C_%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA مشرا (talk) 04:14, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 04:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Sudhanoti District#History: The page as published is not ready for mainspace, it is mainly unreferenced original research. I think the combined info from all the sources make this a two paragraph summary in the target article, not a stand alone article. There is nothing properly sourced for a merge, but no objection to someone merging RS they think useful into the target.
- re: First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir on October 4,1947 not ready for mainspace, a lot of words but very little information, and sources do not demonstrate notability for a stand alone article. This should Redirect to History of Azad Kashmir. There is nothing properly sourced for a merge, but no objection to someone merging RS they think useful into the target.
- No objection to a consensus redirect(s) to another target. // Timothy :: talk 05:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- Agree, redirect to Sudhanoti District. HistoriesUnveiler (talk) 21:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 03:32, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect Sudhanoti to Sudhanoti District and delete First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir on October 4,1947. I could support a redirect of the second article per commenters above, but I consider the article title to be so implausible as a search request as to be of no benefit. As best I am able to determine these central assertions of these articles are unverifiable. I am no subject matter expert, and certainly could be mistaken, but the links to Google book searches are unhelpful as there is often no way to know whether any given user will see a specific page. In my case, nothing relevant to the discussion was shown. I tried my own search, but was unable to locate an Kashmiri kindom in 1407 that in any way matches the article. There may be a notable topic that can be written about with foreign language sources, but we will have to do a much better job of establishing that they comply with WP:V. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 05:32, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect Sudhanoti to Sudhanoti District#History and delete First Government of Sidhnuti Azad Kashmir on October 4,1947--between the ultra-specific title and the typo in the date (no space between the comma and 1947), I agree that this is not a useful redirect. signed, Rosguill talk 15:06, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Hey man im josh (talk) 02:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Khachatur-Bek of Mush (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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- Delete Cannot find any mention of a person with this name in any books, articles, or websites. Khachatur itself seems to be a popular name associated with Armenia, but there is no information available for the individual here. Tooncool64 (talk) 00:58, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete tagged unreferenced for 15 years. - Altenmann >talk 03:59, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, even apart from the lack of sources, the article does not indicate notability. Zerotalk 07:32, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete. No mention in books or any web searches. TWOrantulaTM (enter the web) 01:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete If there's an ur-citation, I can't find it. All else is regurgitation. Too, no translation into or from Armenian, and no Armenian article, either. kencf0618 (talk) 14:10, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was redirect to Agʿazi as a natural ATD. Owen× ☎ 16:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Agʿazi People (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG .There is hardly any sources on who or what the "Ag'azi People" even were, there is not enough source material for a separate article. As a result, most of the article is original research or just completely fabricated, with most of the sections being entirely unsourced (there's a few places where the editor cites a source, but doesn't it corroborate with the text). There is already a separate article called Agʿazi, so this is also arguably a WP:BADFORK. Socialwave597 (talk) 05:33, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete. I searched all the digital sources for the term "Agʿazi", and couldn't find it in any of them. Maybe some of the non-digital sources have more information, but the majority of sources on a topic not mentioning the topic doesn't give me confidence. Cortador (talk) 07:57, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Agʿazi as a content fork: It really seems to be the same topic, even if the current lede of the target article refers to geography. The content here is mostly WP:OR and should not be merged with the target article. I do find some results with "Agazian" from Google Books, but nothing really useful. The emergence of this article might be indirectly related to a recent Agazian movement, See discussion at https://www.iwgia.org/en/eritrea/4216-iw-2021-eritrea.html Jähmefyysikko (talk) 12:46, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or possibly Redirect to Agʿazi (I agree there's effectively nothing to merge, in any case). Presumably the inhabitants of Agʿazi were "Agʿazian people" but, as @Socialwave597 pointed out, this is a bad fork. Heretofore, Wikipedia described Agʿazi as an area of the Aksumite Empire, not an ethnicity therein nor as a predecessor to it. In addition to the sourcing problems that Socialwave597 specified, this also had an orphaned (& since fixed) {{sfn}} citation (leading me to think the article was cobbled together via unattributed WP:COPYPASTE), and another citation to a WP:SPS. Those concerns were met with no response when I brought them up; the other concerns were met with WP:IDHT. I might have thought this could be WP:DRAFTified, but there are other issues regarding the article's creator. Those are outside the scope of this AfD, of course, but it makes me skeptical that said draft would reach a suitable state. @Jähmefyysikko: I read about the Agazian movement at the link you provided. I am not at all sure whether that explains the creator's motivations (or whether the creator is even aware of it; I'll WP:AGF for now), but the subject matter suggests some perceived "ultra-Habesha" subset of Habesha peoples, which (FWIW) is another article (now indef. protected per WP:HORN) with a history of WP:NOR, but toward the opposite of that Agazian concept. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- they did exist, but i only have ss's proving their existence, and i dont think i can send screen shots on wikipedia. KallebTigray (talk) 03:49, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 04:42, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hammadid expedition to Tlemcen (1058) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I think this article is a combination of embroidery and original research. The background section does not relate specifically to the topic and is in any case unclear in meaning. The substantive content of the article is the two sentences “ The Hammadids launched a campaign against the Ifrenids, seizing Tlemcen in the process. However, they opted not to retain control over the city and instead focused on consolidating their holdings in the eastern regions.” This carries three citations, of which two are offline but the third does not support the existence of a Hammadid expedition to Tlemcen in 1058. The aftermath section, like the background, is just generic padding. There is very little substance here, what there is is not supported by the accessible source, and a search for “hammadid tlemcen” and “tlemcen 1058” brings up nothing at all to support the existence of this expedition, never mind its notability Mccapra (talk) 22:52, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Comment I forgot to add that source five provided by the creator is meant to support the statement “ The remaining Banu Ifran in Tlemcen were massacred by Yusuf ibn Tashfin” but it us actually a scholarly catalogue of beetles. Mccapra (talk) 22:56, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete. I thought this would be yet another passing mention somewhere being turned into a military history stub, but I can't even find any mention of this anywhere, even in passing. For the three cited sources: 1) Ibn Khaldun doesn't say this; 2) Ferchain isn't accessible but a Google snippet search ([8]) doesn't even find the date "1058" inside; and 3) a historical atlas (Lugan) is unlikely to mention an evidently minor event in any detail. A brief search of other books and articles yields nothing. No way this meets notability, even if it were accurate. R Prazeres (talk) 00:08, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft-deletion as a recently-restored article (redirect was reverted).
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 04:17, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete, per R Prazeres. -- asilvering (talk) 04:20, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was no consensus. I don't see a consensus here. If it was up to me, I'd suggest considering a merge or draftification but that is not an AFD closure decision. Liz Read! Talk! 03:50, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thajuddin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article is about Chera Perumals of Makotai and specially it covers Legend of Cheraman Perumals and it already covered about Thajuddin. But the current article is not give reliable source and some sources NOT directly confirm certain events. Splitting of the Moon is a believe, not historical and scientific event. Did Thajuddin lived during the time of Muhammad or after Mohamed? Legend of Cheraman Perumals already cover the topic and no need to have another non proven person. AntanO 18:26, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
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- The inclusion of Thajuddin's page in Wikipedia is justified as it encapsulates a significant historical and cultural figure. While acknowledging the challenges regarding source reliability, Thajuddin represents a figure of substantial folklore and tradition, contributing to the rich tapestry of cultural narratives. Despite the debate surrounding the historical accuracy of certain events attributed to him, his presence in historical discussions provides insight into the socio-political milieu of his time. Thajuddin's purported existence, whether contemporaneous with or postdating Muhammad, offers a lens through which to explore the interplay of legend and history in the broader narrative of the Cheraman Perumals and their era. Therefore, his inclusion fosters a more comprehensive understanding of the cultural heritage and historical discourse surrounding the Cheraman Perumals of Makotai. DonParlo (talk) 19:57, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Checkuser note: DonParlo is the same person as the socks below --Blablubbs (talk) 02:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. Kings are automatically notable. Somebody moved the article to Draft. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 01:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - Kings are notable. But, Why this duplicate page (Chera Perumals of Makotai and Legend of Cheraman Perumals)? Already this article was declined. User already mentioned it as folklore and tradition, and it already covered in Legend of Cheraman Perumals. There is no reliable source, and the reliable sources point to Cheraman Perumal, not so called Thajuddin who met Muhammad (from Kerala to Mecca). --AntanO 11:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- I understand the concern about potential duplication and the classification of the topic as folklore and tradition, but the existence of a separate page dedicated to Thajuddin, who purportedly met Muhammad, serves to provide a focused platform for exploring this aspect of Kerala's history and its cultural narratives. While it may be acknowledged as folklore, documenting such narratives contributes to the broader understanding of regional legends and their cultural significance. Moreover, although sources may vary in reliability, the presence of differing accounts underscores the diversity of perspectives and interpretations within historical discourse. As such, maintaining a distinct page for Thajuddin allows for a nuanced examination of this figure and his alleged encounter, enriching the discourse surrounding Kerala's historical and cultural landscape. The article in Legend of Cheraman Perumals does not cover this Legend in detail. DonParlo (talk) 23:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- //Thajuddin, who purportedly met Muhammad, serves to provide a focused platform for exploring this aspect of Kerala's history and its cultural narratives// Can you give reliable source for such claim? --AntanO 15:14, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- ^ O. Loth, Arabic Manuscripts in the Library of the India Office (London: Secretary of State of India, 1877), no. 1044.
- ^ Jump up to:a b c d e f g Y. Friedmann, "Qissat Shakarwati Farmad: A Tradition Concerning the Introduction of Islam to Malabar", Israel Oriental Studies 5 (1975), 239-241.
- ^ Jump up to:a b c d e f Prange, Sebastian R. Monsoon Islam: Trade and Faith on the Medieval Malabar Coast. Cambridge University Press, 2018. 95-98.
- ^ Y. Friedmann, "Qissat Shakarwati Farmad: A Tradition Concerning the Introduction of Islam to Malabar", Israel Oriental Studies 5 (1975), 239-241.
- ^ H. H. Wilson, Mackenzie Collection. A descriptive catalogue of the Oriental manuscripts and other articles illustrative of the literature, history, statistics and antiquities of the south of India (Calcutta, 1828), II, appendix, p. XCV.
- ^ Prange, Sebastian R. Monsoon Islam: Trade and Faith on the Medieval Malabar Coast. Cambridge University Press, 2018. 98. DonParlo (talk) 20:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- https://www.scribd.com/document/519315791/Qissat-Shakarwati-Farmad-a-Tradition-Con DonParlo (talk) 20:44, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting for clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 10:51, 6 February 2024 (UTC)If you look at this objectively this wiki page does not do that much significant to anything. So what's the point of deleting it. I think people should keep this page. Is it gives a deeper insight into the legend. ஸ்டீவன் ஸ்கால் (talk) 15:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)WP:SOCKSTRIKE --Blablubbs (talk) 02:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. To begin with the subject of the page Thajuddin, there is no reference that it was formerly called Tamil King Cheraman Perumal. More so, there are contentious websites and some references that are just scraps as if someone did a Google search to find a word and used it as a testimony for a much larger paragraph. I find it impossible to verify the paragraphs from the references given. RangersRus (talk) 22:36, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- Merge to Legend of Cheraman Perumals. The legend of the introduction of Islam to India is certainly notable, but the present article presents this legend as fact. The Legend of Cheraman Perumals article can be expanded with the specific events in the legend (the vision of the split moon and the pilgrimage to Mecca) if Indian historiographic sources are sufficient to verify that this is, in fact, part of the known legend. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Merge would be good, but need to cleanup per RS. AntanO 19:57, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
Sock !votes --Blablubbs (talk) 02:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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- Comment: As per nomination and heavy involvements of SOCKS --~AntanO4task (talk) 07:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Last relisting did not establish any clear consensus, but only few sock votes. Relisting again for clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:55, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: This is a confusing mess. The discussion above is all over the place, the sourcing seems odd. TNT is probably best. Could draft it, but we'd need to start from zero again. Oaktree b (talk) 15:56, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
- Keep and Edit: People should keep the wiki page of Thajuddin even if it is poorly sourced because it provides a starting point for further research and discussion, potentially leading to the improvement of the page's quality over time. According to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, "Information provided in an article must be verifiable and cited to reliable sources, even if it is not actually footnoted in the article." This means that while poorly sourced information should be improved, the existence of the page itself is justified as long as efforts are made to enhance its reliability and accuracy. தமிழ் வீரன் ஜைத் (talk) 13:31, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
- Sending it to draft would better suit what you're describing. Oaktree b (talk) 21:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
- You ID seems new and your edit patterns are similar as per above socks. AntanO 19:55, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
- I am from India I use a VPN it sends me to random places I don't edit much as I just started this account I only fix spelling errors usually. தமிழ் வீரன் ஜைத் (talk) 03:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Keep Kings area always notable, and a first king to embrace a religion is absolutely notable. The article needs work for sure, but that doesn't justify deletion.DarmaniLink (talk) 18:55, 23 February 2024 (UTC)- I think you didn't see the duplicate page that already exist with primary name. AntanO 19:53, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 12:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- Mohammad Rauf Mehdi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lacking sources and not very well-known. Historianfox (talk) 10:55, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Yes he doesn't seem to be very significant. Could be insufficient for Wiki Rapanomics (talk) 03:38, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 00:48, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- History of A-Scan (1 Dimension) OCT (1981-1990) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Scope is extremely specific and doesn't make sense as a standalone article. Instead, this could best be included in Optical coherence tomography or even as part of a new "History of optical coherence tomography" article, although the content isn't optimal for mainspace. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 00:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Ultra-niche "history" article, heavy reliance on primary sources. With major cleanup I might consider a merge with Optical coherence tomography, but the information here is so specific and so poorly-framed I wouldn't know what to do with it as-is. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 01:01, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete: Little too niche for a wiki article. Could perhaps be worked into the main OCT article, but seems pointless, given how technical this information is. Oaktree b (talk) 16:47, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 14:10, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- List of participants at the Battle of Badr (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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unsourced mess of a list that admits it's incomplete
. blow it up. ltbdl (talk) 01:01, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Merge to Battle of Badr. A bit messy, but still not a good reason to delete the article. Plus the battle is already notable. Draftification can be an alternative based on what you gave. Brachy08 (Talk) 01:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Delete. Nothing of value in this article, just a whole lot of non-notable names, even the blue linked articles are very questionable. Ajf773 (talk) 09:30, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Even if it were possible for such a list to be reliably sourced (which it clearly isn't currently, and almost certainly never could be), there is nothing inherent in mere participation in a battle that would justify it under Wikipedia notability criteria. Were such lists permitted, we could potentially end up with monstrosities like a List of participants at the Battle of Stalingrad with entries running into the millions. Not what Wikipedia is for. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Merge per Brachy0008. Shankargb (talk) 14:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 04:47, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- Merge, would be more useful to include in the battle of Badr page via a "participants" section or something like that rather then outright deletion. Noorullah (talk) 09:00, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- A question for those proposing a merge. What source are you suggesting should be cited? Even if a list of this length were to be appropriate (I contend that it isn't), we cannot add it without proper sourcing meeting WP:RS requirements. AndyTheGrump (talk) 09:05, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- @AndyTheGrump Reply At the bottom of the article, there seems to be a cited list of the individuals who participated, so that could serve as a source if it complies with WP:RS. Noorullah (talk) 18:57, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- A question for those proposing a merge. What source are you suggesting should be cited? Even if a list of this length were to be appropriate (I contend that it isn't), we cannot add it without proper sourcing meeting WP:RS requirements. AndyTheGrump (talk) 09:05, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Two references and neither reliable. References for history pages need to be from a scholarly literature. The page fails wp:n. RangersRus (talk) 21:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relist to discuss the merits of merging vs deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The WordsmithTalk to me 23:32, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I've got to agree with the main points stated above. Merely being in a battle doesn't merit a list article. Merging isn't appropriate, because there's nothing to merge: a reliable source, currently lacking, is required for each item to be merged. Larry/Traveling_Man (talk) 23:51, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. I've also got to agree with the main points above, merely being in a battle doesn't give an individual any notability, it feels very WP:COOKIE to include every person, and as AndyTheGrump said, articles listing the participants at other battle would run into the millions. It would be little more than a database. Shaws username . talk . 00:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
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The result was delete. The source analysis by TimothyBlue is persuasive and has remained unrebutted. Sandstein 15:24, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- Viola Pettus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article has three sources for notability: a deadlink to a local newspaper allegedly saying she ran a schoolhouse and two articles referencing a minor character inspired by her in a relatively obscure play by Richard Montoya. Running a one-room school was not unusual and neither was working as a nurse during the Spanish Flu epidemic (even if there were a reliable source for that claim).
Google searches for Pettus turn up an image of her gravesite on facebook, a local blog post from 2007, more references to the Montoya play and some census records. Pettus's sole even arguably noteworthy attribute appears to have been a minor appearance in the Montoya play. Jbt89 (talk) 05:15, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
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- Keep Google Books search brings up a few references and this person appears to be notable. I'll make changes to the article after work tomorrow. Dr vulpes (Talk) 07:46, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
- Took a look and found two (other than cemetery stuff): "REAL NURSING: Every Second Counts!!
- " which makes essentially the same unsourced assertions as the article does, and "Revealed The Kingdom of Locs Nazirite Vow Continues, Volume 2" which copied the passage from the nursing book verbatim and generally seems like it was generated by a web scraper.
- Personally I'd be a lot more comfortable accepting that she's even locally famous other than in connection with the Montoya play if there was a book or newspaper article stating that from before this article and the play were written in 2010, but I'm curious to see what you find. So far the argument for her notability all seems to boil down to that play IMO, which isn't good enough for a standalone article. Jbt89 (talk) 22:42, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per Dr Vulpes. Expand and improve; do not delete. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 14:38, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More specific discussion regarding sourcing would be helpful in establishing a consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:15, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
(edit conflict)*Comment - The only addition I was able to find through Google Books was a Lulu.com publishing, which means self published, and it's recent enough it may have copied Wikipedia. Searching newspapers.com I found a short paragraph in the Los Angeles Times from August 16, 2010 and the Hartford Courant from September 9, 2012, but both of these are in context of the Montoya play. There well may be better but more obscure sources, but I'd recommend a re-list so experts might possibly find them, rather than a keep close at this point. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:18, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 16:01, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Fails GNG and NBIO. Sources in article and BEFORE found nothing with WP:SIGCOV from WP:IS WP:RS addressing the subject directly and indepth.
- Source eval:
Comments Source 404 1. Glover, Mark (2008). "African-American school in Alpine seeks historic recognition". The Big Bend Sentinel. Retrieved 2010-08-16. Census 2. ^ US Census (1910) Census Place: Justice Precinct 3, Brewster, Texas; Roll T624_1533; Page: 6A; Enumeration District: 6; Image: 608. Census 3. ^ US Census (1920) Census Place: Justice Precinct 3, Brewster, Texas; Roll T625_1781; Page: 7A; Enumeration District: 14; Image: 1071. One sentence "In “American Night” Kimberly Scott plays an almost forgotten historical figure, an African-American woman from West Texas named Viola Pettus, who during the 1918 flu epidemic nursed the children of whites, blacks and Mexicans.", fails SIGCOV 4. ^ Taylor, Kate (2010-08-10). "American History, With Shakespeare as Inspiration". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2024-01-15. 404 5. ^ Montoya, Richard; Culture Clash (2010). "American Night: The Ballad of Juan José". OSF 75th Season. Oregon Shakespeare Festival. Retrieved 2010-08-16. One sentence "Not much has been written about Viola Pettus, but playwright Richard Montoya is as insistent on including her in the annals of American history as she was insistent on treating the sick of all ages and colors.", fails SIGCOV 6. ^ Morris, Steven Leigh (2012-03-15). "American Night: The Ballad of Juan Jose, From Richard Montoya and Culture Clash". LA Weekly. Retrieved 2020-06-23.
- Keep votes provided no sources or guidelines to eval. // Timothy :: talk 06:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. The arguments have been brief, and there doesn't seem an obvious consensus from the discussion. I have given drive-by IP comments less weight. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- Battle of Akora Khattak (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
There seems to be some confusion (among sources), as to the date, location, and even name of this battle. So is it one battle or synthases of more than one action?
Also all of the sources seem to be single-line mentions, (at least the ones that I can check). Slatersteven (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Slatersteven (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Military, Sikhism, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 17:48, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
- KEEP This article has many solid Book references that are all working properly. I checked today to confirm it. Added an additional archived reference to the article today...Ngrewal1 (talk) 20:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 16:51, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete. Most sources are unreliable and some are hard to verify. Couple sources have one-liners about the battle except for one. The date is disputed among sources. I do not see any useful contribution of this article.RangersRus (talk) 02:14, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep A significant battle and has good coverage in reliable sources. Referencing can be improved but the sources already present in the article are also enough to have this article on Wikipedia. Muneebll (talk) 10:26, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Arbitrarily0 (talk) 04:45, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NotAGenious (talk) 06:05, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Nothing of value in this article. Even the sources are questionable which do not sgree with one another.23.25.75.145 (talk) 17:47, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Niche article and heavy reliance on snippets and questionable citations. The information here is so poorly-framed I wouldn't know what to do with it as-is.208.184.20.115 (talk) 18:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Keep sufficient WP:RS exist detailing the battle, and most of the references cited in the article do provide full view.
- I don't know on which basis some editors here can call it poorly sourced. One just has to visit the article to verify that the sources are good enough to merit a stand-alone article. Sutyarashi (talk) 06:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Note for closer: Please take a closer look at the !votes of IPs, because they are very clearly sockpuppets based on their similar arguments and the fact that they have made edit only at this AfD thread. Sutyarashi (talk) 09:06, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
- DELETE The refs provided are only short passing mentions and I don’t see anything more substantial. There isn't much in detail about the battle then a sentence or two. 63.86.0.91 (talk) 21:56, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Not every individual fight mentioned somewhere in a book needs its own article especially when there is not enough information in multiple articles. Major Conflicts in sources in every aspect and most are just unreliable. 173.167.254.157 (talk) 22:15, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: article creator was CU-blocked not long after creating this article. -- asilvering (talk) 01:38, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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