Talk:Thessaloniki Airport

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Quotes

Why is the name Macedonia in quotes? I'm sure the quote marks are not part of the airport's official name. Corvus cornix_talk 21:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

no it's actually an official use. see [1]. it's the one-word name of the airport. --150.140.226.7 (talk) 19:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Corvus. In Greece, it's standard practice to place the actual name of airports into quotes. For example, Athens "Elefthérios Venizélos" Airport, Corfu/Kérkyra "Ioannis Kapodistrias" Airport, etc. However, this looks a bit strange in English, because in the English language, quotes denote an unofficial name or nickname. Hence, you raise a good point. I tried changing the airport's name at the beginning of the article from Thessaloniki International Airport "Macedonia" to Thessaloniki Makedonia International Airport, to conform with English-language airport naming standards (and I used the Greek word Makedonia, although I now see below that we should use "Macedonia" because that's the region's name in English, although I disagree with that point on the airport's actual name, regardless of the region's name in English). Anyways, my changes would not be accepted, because I think the article itself is tied to the entry Thessaloniki International Airport "Macedonia". Plus, all the English-language Wikipedia entries on Greek airports follow the same Greek quotes standard. I think this raises a very good question, and hopefully others can chime in. Since these articles are English-language articles, shouldn't airport names comply with English-language standards, as opposed to Greek-language standards? Because in English, quotes denote a nickname or unofficial name, and these articles are meant for English-speakers. Skyduster (talk) 05:30, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, another problem is that you are translating the Greek name word-by-word. In Greek the airport's name is Διεθνής Κρατικός Αερολιμένας Θεσσαλονίκης «Μακεδονία», but this translates in English as "Macedonia" International Airport of Thessaloniki. Likewise, Αεροδρόμιο «Μακεδονία» translates as "Macedonia" Airport and not Airport, "Macedonia". --Philly boy92 (talk) 10:52, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was procedural close. Per the Arbitration Committee, "No Macedonia-related article, broadly defined, shall be moved/renamed until after the Macedonia 2 case closes." This can be revisited at that time if necessary. Dekimasuよ! 09:22, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thessaloniki International Airport, "Macedonia" → Thessaloniki International Airport "Makedonia" — The international name of the airport is spelled with a "k". Also, no comma after "Airport". See official website. 03:56, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

To be changed after the injuction is lifted.

Oppose Regardless of what the "international name" (I not sure I know what that means) of the airport is, the English name is "Macedonia", and this is English Wikipedia. Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 06:23, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Do not move until WP:ARBMAC2 is resolved; when it is, it may be clearer what we should use here. Thessaloniki Airport, as in the first external link, may well be best; we should use a simple, unambiguated, commonly used [in English], proper name. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:28, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Rhodes International Airport, "Diagoras" which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 11:45, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Destinations names

I think we should vote on what we will be considering as a destination city for each airport. Airlines like Ryanair use airports serving smaller towns that are close to other cities and call the destination by the name of the city while some other airline might actually fly to both those airports and call each one with the name of the town/city. If someone could please help me set up a voting on whether we should be using the name of the city each company uses as a destination or use the name of the city included in the airport's name as the destination and the city Ryanair serves through it in a parenthesis, i.e. Bergamo (as Milan), Charleroi/Brussels, Frankfurt-Hahn (the latter actually includes Frankfurt in its official name) --Thakaran (talk) 23:54, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've been asked by Thakaran to provide an opinion on this matter, so here it goes. The first thing we should bear in mind when editing all articles is to keep them consistent with each other. That said, airport articles include the name of the city served (it is actually one of the parameters included in Template:Infobox airport), so the first thing we should do when editing any destination an airline flies to is to find the IATA and/or ICAO airport(s) code(s) in each carrier's schedules. Should any doubt persist, the next step I'd take is to go to the airport article and look for the name of the city served. The combination of both results will provide the consistency mentioned above. As to Ryanair, I've searched for a Bergamo-Thessaloniki flight, and the airline serves the BGY-SKG route. BGY corresponds to Orio al Serio Airport according to IATA airport code, and the article for the airport states that it serves Milan, despite the airport is located in Bergamo. Consistency is therefore fullfiled. Hope this lines will shed line into the subject.--Jetstreamer (talk) 23:44, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The rule that should apply to me: pick the city that is in the official airport name (official, not commercial). For example, BGY airport name is "Bergamo/Orio al Serio", therefore it should be listed as serving Bergamo. RYG airport name is "Moss / Rygge", it is located in Rygge and should be listed as serving Moss. Etc etc. Although we do mention already in Ryanair destinations what name they use to advertise certain airports, I don't think we should use the advertised name in the destination lists for consistency. Same way, the "served" city in the infobox should list the same "offcial" information, not the airline's ones. Slasher-fun (talk) 08:11, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with Jetstreamer and disagree with Slasher-fun. I believe we have to search what the official websites of the airports, says that they serve. Furthermore, I think that it is better that we keep a common policy withing Wikipedia, to use the same names for the airports. For example I see that most of the articles use the name "Hahn" for the the destination and not "Frankfurt-Hahn". I believe that the way that they are writen now in the article Thessaloniki International Airport, are in the way they should. --katantonis (talk) 11:52, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But how can you claim for example that HHN, 125 km away from Frankfurt, serves Frankfurt? It's not because airlines want the airport to claim they serve a specific city that it's actually true. That's why we should stick with the name: no matter what everyone can claim, we just use the official city associated to the airport. Slasher-fun (talk) 11:24, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Austrian flights operated by Lauda

An unregistered user keeps deleting the seasonal scheduled, weekly operated flights operated by Lauda Air for Austrian Airlines without citing a reason. Could someone please help me with what should happen next? The flights appear on Lauda's timetable which I have cited in previous revisions of the article, like here for example [2] and are additional to the daily seasonal flights operated by Austrian for Austrian. User:Thakaran 13:2, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 19:16, 8 October 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)[reply]

– According to Wikipedia:Article titles#Precision and disambiguation, titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but no more precise than that. Therefore, I believe that the articles' titles should not include National, International or Island since nobody refers to them including those characterizations.

As suggested by the makers of this template, I cite a Google news search for Thessaloniki airport, to show that this airport, for example, is usually referred to simply as Thessaloniki Airport instead of Thessaloniki International Airport. Google Ειδήσεις - αεροδρόμιο θεσσαλονίκης

Also, since Kithira has been moved to Cythera, the latter is the spelling I think should be used in the airport's name. Thakaran 01:34, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Oppose Corfu Airport is ambiguous because once it loses the descriptor "International" it could be mistaken for any airport on the island of Corfu. In addition the descriptor "International" differentiates the Kapodistrias airport from the ones without the ability to accept international flights. All in all this is a very bad idea. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 02:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any other airports on Corfu? Thakaran 02:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know but it doesn't matter because I gave a second reason: In addition the descriptor "International" differentiates the Kapodistrias airport from the ones without the ability to accept international flights. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 02:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We are talking about changing the article's name, the airport's full name will still be right under the title. According to Wikipedia:Article titles, Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. Plus, as I mentioned above titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but no more precise than that. Therefore, since there is no way Corfu Airport will make someone think the article is about a different airport, additional characterizations should not be used in the article's title. Thakaran 02:45, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

We are already going in circles. I repeat: There is a possibility that a second airport in Corfu may exist. But even if it doesn't, removing the descriptor "International" amounts to deprecating the title of the airport which will confuse readers regarding its functionality as a domestic or international airport. The title of the article should not be deprecated and reading the text of the article to check for more details is not a valid defence for changing the name of the article. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 02:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to let someone else pick this up, I am out of ways to explain this and bored of typing in so many ":" Thakaran 02:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Comment: Why is Athens International Airport not in that list? Either we apply it to all airports or none. --Philly boy92 (talk) 10:29, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This template can be used for up to 30 airports at a time. Not all Greek airports could fit. Anyway, I chose to leave out the airport of Athens, Greece because Athens Airport is a disambiguation page, because there are 3 cities named Athens served by airports, making the article's title a whole different issue to be discussed.

Also, I left out Nea Anchialos, Araxos and Aktion airports since they are almost never refered to by the name of the city they serve. Thakaran 13:57, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Oppose because the current titles provide disambiguity and to be consistent with other airport articles. Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 15:19, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Current titles reflect correct naming of the airports, precise and "short". Removing "international" from the name would not be precise enough.--ZooFamily (talk) 00:14, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Many Cities have more than one airport - London has at least five plus others that are almost airports!!!!!!!!!!!!! The distinction is relevant and removing it it could be confusing and detract from Wikipedias usefulness.Petebutt (talk) 22:34, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
'Support; simply because the new titles better fit WP:AT. Some of the opposes surprise me; why is it relevant that London has five airports? These are all relatively minor places in Greece with a single airport. Which brings me to ZooFamily's oppose vote; why would removing "international" lack precision if there are no other airports in these places competing for our attention? I cannot fathom what Dr.K. and Hillcrest98 thinks we need to disambiguate from. (The nearest thing to another "airport" on Corfu is a marina which was, in the past, used by a couple of seaplanes). Consistency with other articles is a very poor reason; it merely serves to spread poor naming practices more widely. Readers don't know wikipedia's internal naming habits when they try searching for something, and the longer names with "international" in them are much less plausible search terms. Won't somebody think of the readers? bobrayner (talk) 00:36, 6 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Orphaned references in Thessaloniki International Airport

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Thessaloniki International Airport's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "schedule":

From Nuremberg Airport: http://www.airberlin.com/de-DE/site/flugplan.php
From Tolmachevo Airport: "Flight Timetable". Novosibirsk International Airport. Retrieved 9 March 2013.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 10:50, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 24 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over a week. Jenks24 (talk) 00:41, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thessaloniki International Airport → Thessaloniki Airport – The "International" part is not used by the airport's operator (see ypa.gr) or in most articles or mentions on the Internet. It is also the way most European airports on Wikipedia are titled, when there is only one airport serving that city; see Frankfurt Airport, Munich Airport, Zürich Airport etc. Thakaran (talk) 10:02, 24 September 2015 (UTC) Thakaran (talk) 10:02, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Requested move 26 September 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontroversial request to revert an undiscussed move. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist (talk) 19:14, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thessaloniki Airport "Makedonia" → Thessaloniki Airport – Primarily WP:COMMONNAME. Thessaloniki Airport is by far the most popular term (7.8 million hits), not to mention the official name of the airport as used by the operator, followed by Thessaloniki International Airport (4 million hits). Thessaloniki Airport Makedonia gives 365k results. I may be wrong but it was moved in January 2018 without discussion. Michail (blah) 18:03, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3 April 2019

It has been proposed in this section that Thessaloniki Airport be renamed and moved to Thessaloniki Airport Makedonia.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Links: current log • target log • direct move

Thessaloniki Airport → Thessaloniki Airport Makedonia – Per WP:officialname in it's logo and common practice across all of Wikipedia to include the full name & title. See List of international airports by country: e.g. Belgrade Nikola Tesla Airport (not Belgrade Airport), Ohrid St. Paul the Apostle Airport (not Ohrid Airport). Notice Skopje Alexander the Great Airport dropped the name Alexander the Great because of the Prespa Agreement but that agreement does not require such renaming of the Makedonia airport. Lately, the page was previously moved with no discussion on a single user's good faith request but to an amibiguous (this is not the only Thessaloniki airport) and non-official name on dubious WP:OR usage of WP:commonname. Namely if you cut words from any official title you are going to have more Google results on the needless cost of precision, unless we should call it just "Greek Airport" which has the most google results. An older move discussion[3] with many users participation was opposed to drop "International" from airport titles in Greece for the same reason. I propose the short official non-ambiguous title Thessaloniki Airport Makedonia, but we could also include the word 'International' as well Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 09:02, 3 April 2019 (UTC) [reply]

Please read WP:RM#Commenting in a requested move
Support as per rationale. Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 09:02, 3 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment 1 – Shadowmorph sorry but what exactly do you mean "this is not the only Thessaloniki airport" and that the current title is confusing? Who has ever referred to Sedes airport as "Thessaloniki Airport Sedes"? Additions to an airport name are only necessary if there is confusion by use of the simple name, and in Thessaloniki there is but a single commercial airport. Please provide some evidence for your assertion that the present article title is confusing, because I personally have never seen anyone refer to Thessaloniki airport as "Thessaloniki Airport Makedonia" as the common name in mainstream English sources. --Michail (blah) 17:16, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For the record I didn't say what you are responding to. Tell me why not call it Greece Airport if Thessaloniki Airport is not ambiguous even though you accept that there is at least one other airport located at the same area in Thessaloniki? Also in the database, there are another two listed in the Thessaloniki prefecture, one of them actually is closer to the Thessaloniki city center than either Makedonia or Sedes. Genuinely curious, tell me what was your motivation to move this article but not Ohrid Airport or Belgrade Airport? Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 07:43, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What you should be asking is why did you have to refer to Sedes airport using it's name rather than Thessaloniki airbase or something for the military one, but wan't to refrain from the simple natural thing to use the name of the airport for the commercial one. And why you yourself had to use the disambiguator commercial airport for the one we are talking about, all these evidence that we should include the official name in the title. Are you saying you will not have a problem if there was actually another commercial airport in Thessaloniki and Makedonia airport is not the single one? Because there is. AG6358 used for charter flights to Thessaloniki. Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 08:04, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment 2 – Shadowmorph I also do not appreciate your accusation that it was moved without discussion. A request to move was put in, no one replied, and it was moved. --Michail (blah) 17:18, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment 3 – your edit history, centred almost exclusively on Greek Macedonia-related articles, to me also points to a POV-motivated move request, as opposed to one based on Wikipedia policies, exemplified by your comment that Notice Skopje Alexander the Great Airport dropped the name Alexander the Great because of the Prespa Agreement but that agreement does not require such renaming of the Makedonia airport. This is a completely irrelevant argument in the context of this request. The English Wikipedia uses the most common English names for its articles, it does not care what the Greek public most commonly uses. --Michail (blah) 17:49, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Wow, such hate. Besides your instant violation of WP:AGF at the mere suggesion of using the official name of the airport, I didn't accuse you at all, I just mentioned the fact that nobody discussed it at the time it was moved, so there was no consensus. There were previous discussions that seemed to have other results. Other than that, you fail to respond at the resonable points I made in the rationale for the move and resort to ad hominem attack and a strawman, responding to claims I never made. Carry on. Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 07:43, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support as suggested. The title of this entry should have the proper name of the airport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian 1975 (talk • contribs) 08:11, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. A Google search for "Thessaloniki Airport Makedonia" gives 576k results [4]. A search for Thessaloniki Airport gives 7.7 million results [5]. "Thessaloniki Airport" is by far the most common name in English. WP:OFFICIALNAME states: In many cases, the official name will be the best choice to fit these criteria. However, in many other cases, it will not be. [...] The article title policy later reads Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title. WP:OFFICIALNAME is not a valid rationale for moving it. The current page satisfies WP:OFFICIALNAME by including the official name in the lead. --Michail (blah) 17:08, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Should the article title be "Thessaloniki Airport" (most common name – 7.7 million google hits) or the official name "Thessaloniki Airport Makedonia" (576k hits, 7% of total hits)? Should WP:COMMONNAME or WP:OFFICIALNAME be the prevailing Wikipedia policy for the title of this article? Michail (blah) 17:36, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A gentle reminder: though you make a good case for the present title being the airport's common name, and while WP:COMMONNAME is definitely an important part of Wikipedia's article title policy, WP:OFFICIALNAME is neither a policy nor a guideline. It is a "supplement" to the policy and is not to be used when the policy itself (WP:COMMONNAME) takes precedence. So to answer your question, WP:COMMONNAME prevails. Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 21:30, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Precision is part of the naming policy though. I argue that even though Thessaloniki Airport is WP:concise, it is not precise enough. Also does common practice across the wiki count for nothing? As I mentioned in the rationale, check out List of international airports by country. If someone was to scoop all that and moving them to the common name, deleting the given airport titles from the article titles, that would be ok becuase it is an application of a guideline? I don't think so. Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 08:35, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Ngrams would agree with the noted search results: the present title is the COMMONNAME of this airport and should continue to be used. Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 21:37, 5 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Thanks for the input. I must however point out that this is ~~WP:OR~~(edit:insufficient and a wrong use of COMMONNAME. Let me explain my point:). Furthermore, I don't see how your Google argument invalidates anything I suggested based on the reasons I provided. For instance you could argue that New York Airport has more results than New York Laguardia Airport or maybe we should just title the article just "Airport" for the most Google results possible? For things like airports ships and buildings that are named it is rather unreasonable to omit their names from the article title because the ambiguous terms that are left out will have more results. I ask you, what is the gain, why shouldn't we use the name of the Airport as it is done in hundreds of other Airport articles? At the very least the title should be Thessaloniki International Airport as other suggested in past discussions. Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 07:43, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User:Paine Ellsworth, just one more example to see why the tool you used is wrongly applied: Genoa Airport vs Genoa Cristoforo Colombo Airport. 10 mil results vs 1 mil. And this is what Ngrams says:[6]. Do we agree that it is obvious that Genoa Airport is not the common name of that airport even though that exact same argumentation could be used to that erronious effect? Shadowmorph ^{^"^} 09:12, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]