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Some consideration about sourcing

Hallo, I am not sure if this is the right place where to post this so if it is not please advise me where to move it. I would like to discuss with you some thoughts I have about sourcing, more precisely about biography.

General reading purpose biographies of living people (not academic purpose or journalistic investigations) usually are mostly based on interviews (followed by fact checking) but still there is a questionable interaction between the writer and the subject of the bio. Moreover, biographies for general reading purpose (not academic purpose) make up some details: if it reports a not recorded conversation happened years before it is obvious that it is not reporting the exact words (no one could be 100% sure of what the exact word are), the same happens if they describe any detail like a dress, a room, or tell what a person thought in a precise moment. If we consider this level of "fabrication" unacceptable for a reliable source we need to delete 98% of the biographies of living people.

I believe that general reading purpose biographies should be considered reliable (depending on the author and the publisher) even if they obviously made up some details that no one could ever know as the relevant facts are double checked and are not made up. May be telling something happened 10 years ago the biographer might tell what the person felt or thought in a precise moment. This is either made up or based on an interview but to me this doesn't make the biography unreliable. As long as fiction aspects of a biography are not reported in the wikipedia biography that level of "fabrication" shouldn't be a reason to question the biography as a source. Being so stiff would make sense if there was not common agreement on a fact but in such case you can not question a source without reporting other sources that disagree with it. Moreover, when a source reports a conversation not using the exact words is because of two reasons: first, no one could tell what the exact words were unless the conversation was recorded, and second most often the words are not important. If I report a conversation of a person with his mother in a book I might be way more interested into using that conversation to tell what kind of relation they had, rather than being precise. Another example, if I tell in a biography of when that person argued with his mother, is not important what he exactly said but it is important how bad the fight was. So, sometime conversations are simply used to describe a relation or an intimacy and in such case it is obviously unimportant how precisely the conversation is reported.

Finally, I feel that when it comes up to sourcing we need to be reasonable and check also the context where a source is used. Unless there is disagreement among different sources it shouldn't be important what source you are using for facts like: where and when the person was born, how tall he is and general stuff like that. I understand being stiff if someone reports that a person was an actor, a model, an astronaut, a singer but the only sources one can find are his interviews but speaking of not sensible details basically if there is not disagreement any source should be accepted.

Being so unreasonably stiff with sourcing is discouraging a lot of people to write anything. Plus, most of the material on wikipedia was written years ago when sourcing was not such an issue, becoming so stiff not would make it questionable a big part of the biographies you can find on wikipedia now. So, also to make wikipedia a little bit more homogeneous and even please be reasonable.

what do you think about it? please, feel free to agree with me (jocking). I would like to hear your opinions. thank you

--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 09:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC) AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 09:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey Please read the Biographies of Living Persons policy. It is necessary to be very strict with the sourcing of such articles, mostly for legal reasons. In most countries editors or Wikipedia itself might be put in legal jeopardy if biographies of living people had poorly sourced or unsourced claims. Perhaps we have different definitions depending on where we live, but where I am a 'biography' has no fiction at all. Interviews are considered primary sources and while primary sources are acceptable for sourcing certain information, it must be put in context. For example, many celebrities(especially but not exclusively women) are not honest about their ages, for various reasons. The person themselves is not always the best source of information about them. This is why independent sources are preferred. 331dot (talk) 13:43, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@331dot: hallo, thank you for your point of view. Don't you fee that if anyone questions one source to determine someone's age or similar issues than he should at least point out another source in disagree with the source in the bio?. I see your point, look at zsa zsa gabor but in those cases you have plenty of sources in disagreement. General agreement on a detail should constitute it self a proof of reliability. While I agree that a biography has to be reliable (an authoritative writer and publisher), I can see that all biography for general reading purpose have a component of fiction, it is impossible to avoid it if you are writing a book, other wise you are not writing a book but filling up a list of things. if you could mention any historical person biography available on internet I would be happy to give you examples of what I mean (a book not one or two pages). If one environment is described or a conversation reported there is no way that the exact words or exact collocation of the forniture are reported but this doesn't make the biography totally useless. Of course the author must have based the description of the clothes and environments on the paintings, and the content of the conversations on some other sources but it is easy to understand that every time you report anything that is not in an official document it is a little bit made up, always. And Also official document can be questionable sometime. A biography of Catherine the Great probably is not reliable to prove what she ate in a particular dinner but it is good enough to prove she was an empress of Russia who died in 1762. This is what i mean when I say that one needs to look at the context where the bio are used. If I am writing the bio of an astronaut it should be not too important where I took the information that he actually was an astronaut as all the sources agree on it and that is not disputable. I feel that such stiffness should apply mostly to questionable facts that do not meet general agreement (you can find different sources that report the fact in different ways). Let me give you one last example, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Big_Brother_19_(American_season)_houseguests#Mark this bios are written after very poor not third part sources, still they are reliable because of two reason. First they are not reporting anything so amazingly spectacular that you need extra source and second it wouldn't make much sense lying on this kind of information. for legal issue is another things but I am not talking of sensitive information. To make a long story short, I am not telling that any biography is reliable for anything or any biography written by autoritative writers are reliable for anything but that sources, especially books, should be considered on the basis of what you are taking from them and on the context you use them. AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 14:24, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@AlejandroLeloirRey: Ha ha, I see your point. Well, there is always the WP:IAR rule, but in my experience, most editors deny that it exists (okay to be fair, they don't deny it exists, they deny that it is ever applicable). But they are wrong! There is a higher rule, and that rule is to do that which will lead to making Wikipedia better. The policies are really intended to act as a basis for arbitrating things, but strict adherence to all the rules (exclusive, of course, of IAR) does not necessarily lead to this desirable end.

Here is a particular example. I came across a case where somebody had deleted some particular claim on the basis that there was no citation to support it. The claim made was (at the very least) plausible. I reverted the deletion, asserting that the editor should instead have tagged it with "citation needed" (and so I added this tag myself). The editor's response was that, according to policy, when content is properly deleted, it may only be re-added if a proper citation is included. My response was that it was improper to delete a plausible claim without giving notice that the citation is needed, but in fact, this was "common sense" on my part, not an actual rule, as far as I am aware.

So let's stipulate the other editor is correct, that every editor may properly delete every unsupported claim they feel like, and that other editors can only re-add the content if they include a valid citation. That would be chaos, but it's there in the rules. Editors who want to insist that rules reign supreme over content may want to watch out. They just might get what they wish for.

I must caution that mine is (apparently) a minority opinion. I don't recall any other editors suggesting that common sense may be considered when interpreting policy. Fabrickator (talk) 18:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

There's always the WP:COMMONSENSE part of IAR. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:56, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@Fabrickator: @Gråbergs Gråa Sång: I am happy to read your post because I started feeling like everyone here had turned off their brain and replaced it with a computer that only checks rules. Wikipedia itself explains that the rules here are general guide lines and not something stiff. If I am telling that Marie Antoinette was queen of France any source will do as it is commonly knows. The same should be for any minor fact where all the sources find agreement. If I am telling the age of an actress I might need extra attention if not every source is reporting the same age but if any think I can find report the same age any source than will do. Sourcing is important and so is good sourcing but extra care is only needed when the fact are controversial, sensitive, incredible, etc. Also for interviews, which I see as not reliable, but if it is used as a source as something like "he lived 3 years in Egypt" it is good enough, this type of detail are not likely to be found anywhere else but in interview and biographies. AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 08:52, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Judging sources you don't know in languages you don't speak?

Hallo, I wrote a draft and sourced 90% with Italian sources (book, authoritative daily news papers ad some magazine). My draft has been declined 2 times and rejected 1 time (each time I worked on it to include the opinions I was given about my work). Is it normal that none of the people who have rejected/declined my draft speak any Italian (especially considering that the main problem seems to be the sourcing)? As a metter of fact I asked the person who rejected my draft to tell me at least couple of specific sources he had a problem with but kept giving me only very generic answers refusing to point out one single specific problem or source.

I know as a fact that the sources I used are universally judged as very reliable (in Italy), but if one doesn't speak Italian it is pretty hard to convince him. Don't you think that before rejecting a draft for bad sourcing one should know both the sources and the language they are written (and check the context in which they are used)?

Note: the first 2 times the draft was rejected it was because they found in the sources list (Notes) not reliable sources. Those "bad" sources were not used to prove anything but the fact that in every part of the world magazines and tabloids spoke about the Biographed so they were in the bio only to prove that his name was actually everywhere in the world. For as bad as a source can be, it will still be good enough to prove that it spoke about something (not that what it says is correct but that it said it). I can see now that reporting such a thing might be too celebrative but than I should have got a different message. I really didn't want to waste time explaining something so obvious so I fixed it cutting off that part. But guys, it is frustrating, you can not rush into delinting/rejecting stuff. Don't you think that for rejecting someone's work you should spend a fairly amount of energy to check it out and also to inform the person who did the job about the specific reasons for rejection?

thank you --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 09:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC) AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 09:41, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

(see also the section Wikipedia:Teahouse#Draft:Carlo_Masi above)

@AlejandroLeloirRey: well, for the draft Draft:Carlo Masi I can't see where anybody has said that they haven't reviewed the Italian-language sources, so that appears to be an incorrect assertion. In the draft, you have made extensive use of a book that was published a month ago, so claiming that it is universally judged as very reliable (in Italy) may be a bit of an exaggeration. Furthermore, the only claim to notability is the media attention in 2017 when some students discovered that their lecturer was a pornographic actor, and that is pretty tenuous. I think one reason this was rejected may have been the repeated re-submissions and requests for review, here and on other boards and user talk pages. There is no deadline, and there can be no reason to be in such a hurry about this. --bonadea contributions talk 11:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Bonadea: How could someone review an Italian source if he doesn't speak any Italian?. when I say universally judged as very reliable (in Italy) I am referring to the daily news paper (La repubblica, il messaggero, etc). I was suggested to base the biography on the book as the author is one of the most recognized in Italy (see Strega Prize Walter Siti) and also the publisher is one of the most respectable: Rizzoli Libri and I follow every piece of suggestion I am given. If the problem is the book as a primary source then I can change it. As a matter of fact Carlo was known as one of the most famous gay porn actors in the world (only ever Emeritus for Colt Studio Group) and as far as I can see this is good enough to be on wikipedia(Category:Gay_pornographic_film_actors). Am I wrong?. I agree with you that he is even more known as a combination of porn actor and an academic but this is one more reason for his bio to be here. you say I think one reason this was rejected may have been the repeated re-submissions and requests for review, here and on other boards and user talk pages and this discloses one of the main problems here. When a draft is rejected is the draft itself to be judged or it is rather its author's behavior? as far as I understood if my behavior is somehow "problematic" I can be suspended or other disciplinary measures can be taken but this should have nothing to do with the draft itself. What you say means to me that probably here the problem is me rather than the draft itself. Please notice that before re-submitting it I worked on it and changed it to fix the problem risen. Going back to notability, you say he is more known for the combination of being an academic and a porn actor, well Pietro Boselli, Mary Kay Letourneau, Pamela Rogers Turner and many, many others are on wikipedia for stories with a very much similar kind of notability. They were teachers, they did something that gained the world attention and now they are here (for no other reason). I think that Carlo should be here first as a porn star, but if you question this (I wouldn't know how), he should be here because of the word wide attention his story gathered. I already know you will not answer again as it has happened again and again, when I answer something reasonable either I don't get any other answer or they change subject and this is why after a while I try to ask to someone else. A discussion is an exchange of opinion that should extend to more than one answer. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 14:17, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

you say he is more known for the combination of being an academic and a porn actor No, I did not say that – sorry for being unclear. I said that the existing claim to notability, in the article at the present time, is the media attention from 2017. (As you point out, he is not notable as an academic.) --bonadea contributions talk 14:40, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Bonadea: thank you for (very, very, very partially, but still) answering, I really would have bet you wouldn't have. As far as i understood notability doesn't age (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#Notability_is_not_temporary). So, IF he was notable as a gay porn star 1000 years ago, he still is now. Yes, he is not notable at all as an academic. I claim notability for both: porn actor itself and for the combination of porn actor-academic (like Pietro Boselli, Mary Kay Letourneau, Pamela Rogers Turner and many, many others). --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@AlejandroLeloirRey: Absolutely, notability is not temporary, but it looks like a couple of reviewers agreed that it does not look like he meets the notability criteria for actors. I want to emphasise that I have not actually made a proper review of the sources, but I do have some sympathy for your position here – I don't think it is completely obvious that WP:GNG is not met, but as I say I haven't evaluated the sources properly, and WP:BLP1E is also relevant here. If a person is known for one event only, and the news coverage is all about that event, it is less likely that they are in fact notable. I'm afraid I can't really help you further (at least not at this time of night) – I mostly wanted to provide a different perspective. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 20:56, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Bonadea: Look, I am not as stupid as I sound and I perfectly got that no one here wants to question a decision made by a respectable members of this community but in this case I think that it is a rushed decision and it was taken by people who could not read the sources as they do not speak the language. If you can give it a chance and check it out when you have time you would make me happy.

As I said I claim him to be notable also as a porn actor. He was an exclusive model for what was considered the most prestigious company on the market Colt Studio Group, not only that, he was the main actor of the company. Supporting this there are three major facts: first he is the only one ever named Colt Man Emeritus, second he is the one chosen as the cover man for the 40th year anniversary book of the company and third, even if he retired almost 10 years ago, in the model section of the company's web site he is still the most popular. Here is the link: https://www.coltstudiogroup.com/models . If that is not enough, how many gay porn actor do you think were famous enough to make tour across USA, Mexico and Europe in clubs and discos?(this is pretty easy to be checked). Look at this page, merchandise with his pictures is still sold: https://coltstudiostore.com/search?type=product&q=carlo+masi . He is on greeting cards, fridge magnets, tens of calendars (mostly covers), shower curtains, lap top sleeves, books, notebook and consider that most of his merchandise is sold out now as, once again, he retired years ago.

Supporting his notability before he become professor (before 2017) Look here: he was the guest star of the most important Italian tv shows. He was the first and only gay porn stars ever accepted in the circuit of the national Italian tv. This video is from his FaceBook: https://www.facebook.com/RuggeroFreddi/videos/253527992083794/ . It is Chiambretti Night one of the most followed Italian tv show and he was the Guest Star (he was the special guest there a few times), and this was 2010 so way before he became a professor. Not enough?, here are a few national daily news papers writing about him quitting porn and doing a theater piece of Beckett: la Repubblica-articolo, Corriere della Sera- articolo, La Stampa-article, and these are just those I could find with a fast search through google. Just give them a look and you shall see that there are article only about him not a note or similar. I don't tell any of this, even if in my opinion it is more than worthy of mention (firs and only gay porn actor in the national tv as a respected guest star), because if I say any of this I would be told to be celebrative and be rejected.

One of the most important Italian writers wrote the book of his story, his whole story not only that fact. The book starts with Carlo Masi as a 3 months child and ends with his wedding (2018), once again first and only gay wedding ever brodcasted live on national tv ( Pomeriggio Cinque). I really would not consider such a person notable for only one fact, unless we agree that gay porn actor should not be on wikipedia, than I would claim notability for only one fact. I know I am stubborn but I know I am right and I know that the people who rejected my draft didn't have any clue of who Carlo is and they pointed out the easiest thing, sourcing. None of them read Italian and most of the sourcing is in Italian, I would take it if I was told that one or two sources are arguable but I can't take that it is bad sourced. So, at the end of the day, what do we have here? a notable person biography with a reasonable sourcing, why shouldn't it be here?

--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 23:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, AFC gives opinion of one experienced editor on whether the article is likely to be kept in a community deletion discussion (WP:AFD). No matter how many re-submissions have happened or declined/rejected, it doesn't amount to "community consensus" unless an actual widely publicised community discussion has happened on the notability of the topic. So, if a few members disagree on whether a topic is notable, and a few others seem unsure about it, that looks like a prime candidate for AFD. Would you rather it were moved to mainspace with the sole purpose of putting it through an AFD so that you have a definitive answer from the community? Usedtobecool ☎️ 09:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Usedtobecool: well, at this point I feel that no one would ever stand for this draft, it doesn't matter if carlo masi cured the cancer or gave a proof of Riemann hypothesis no one is going to say than another editor was wrong. Plus, it wasn't me to say in first place I think one reason this was rejected may have been the repeated re-submissions and requests for review, here and on other boards and user talk pages and I think he was 100% right, the problem, whatever it was it was not the draft, the sourcing or notability. So, yes, go ahead and candidate it for AFD so I can have a bunch of people who have not clue and who speak no Italian (so they can't read or judge the sources) telling me how unreliable are the most important Italian news paper, how irrelevant is a Strega Prize winner's Book and that all of this doesn't prove that a gay porn actor is notable (give a look to the bios of the other gay porn actor here). Here is like if you had to convince a person from Cina that if some one is interviewed by Oprah is a big thing, that the times, the sun, the new york time, etc are reliable news papers and that Charles Bukowski was one of the most important German-American poets.

So, yes go ahead and promote his deletion because even discussing all of this is ridiculous. Would you please explain me how is it like? is there going to be a discussion? can I partecipate to the discussion? can you give me the link to the discussion?. anyway, thank you, way better to get a senseless no than having to keep telling blind people the sun is yellow. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 10:05, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, An WP:AFD (please follow the link) will be a community discussion which will be widely publicised and everyone is welcome to participate in it. People will argue why it should be kept or deleted and those who disagree can rebut and provide counter-arguments; after at least seven days have passed, an administrator will assess the consensus and close it with concluding remarks/actions. The discussion will be listed at the Italy-related discussion AFD discussion board (please follow the link) as well as other relevant topic boards (actor, academic, biography come to mind). Optionally, WP:WikiProject Italy (please follow the link) can be notified asking that people who know Italian look in.

There are plenty of notable people from my country who I don't create articles on because it is difficult to prove that with sources I can access, and no one will believe me when I say they are notable. There are some topics where there is a critical mass of active editors who can just say "Come on! Every one knows that this subject is notable" and get an article kept, there are subjects like those related to my country where there are only a handful of editors and so, we just don't bother no matter how notable a topic is, unless the subject meets WP:GNG (please follow the link) unequivocally from available online sources. If an AFD gets it wrong, there is not much we can do; it's an imperfect universe and Wikipedia is part of it. I understand you are frustrated and if it's venting you are after, I am fine with that. if you are looking for options; i just gave you one. To improve your chances at an AFD, perhaps try and find help from WikiProject Italy first? Post at the talk page asking that someone look at the draft and provide an opinion as to whether it should be an article. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 10:38, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Usedtobecool: well, in this case it is hard to prove notability only because the people who are supposed to check it didn't speak the language and didn't have a clue of what the most reliable news papers of the country are. On one hand I get a "not enough notability" answer but on the other hand if I put all the relevant thing Carlo did I get a "too much celebrative" answer. I was also told that most of the sources "didn't pass a mention", a mention. What? his name is in the title! and the whole thing is about him. Even if you do not speak the language you can tell that those articles are entirely based on him. I was also told "he could have wrote some of those sources himself". How? if you are not registered in the Italian journalists' register you can not write on those papers. I was told he is famous only for one thing but his name kept popping out those important news papers since he was a porn star. Plus, once again, look at the other gay porn stars bios here on wikipedia, 90% of them never have been mentioned by any reliable news papers or ever have been on a national tv show. Why are they here than?. For being a gay porn star he was more than notable. I know it might not seem like this from my posts but I appreciate your help, believe me. I am not frustrated because Carlo Masi will not be on wikipedia, but for the complete lack of pertinence of the answers I got so far, all of them are very random answers and this proves that whoever was reasonable for checking out didn't give a damn and they only wanted to have one more thing (quickly) done. Look, I read those guides many times and they are all interpretable and not as stiff as someone here would like them to be. I don't think there is much I can do at this point to improve it. I could add other 1000 sources, all reliable, but I was told this is not a good thing to do, that it is better to have a few sources all reliable. what more could I do?. I prefer to get a definitive no at this point and know this is not a war I can win with facts or evidences. Once again, I know how any community is, there is always a hierarchy and no one whats to piss off the respected members of the community, even when they are wrong. So, I know I will get a 'no' but I also know why I will get such an answer. At the end of the day at lease I got to practice my english but I am not going to write anything anymore for wikipedia, it is pointless. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 11:41, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

an alphabet of words

It has come to my attention that we have disambiguation pages for A_word (autism, adultery, etc.), B word (bastard, Brexit), F word (fuck, feminism), K word (word processor, Christian radio), and various other letters. (And redirects: the "H word" takes you straight to Hell.) I'd like to make these more findable, from one dab page to another. Is there a more elegant solution than listing them as "see also", as T-word does? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 16:44, 12 April 2020 (UTC) Carbon Caryatid (talk) 16:44, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@Carbon Caryatid: Like maybe User:AlanM1/Template/Navbox x-word, to be transcluded at the bottom of each of those pages? I'll note the articles are not hyphenated consistently, either (I think they should be hyphenated). Feel free to move that to Template:Navbox x-word and modify as needed. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 18:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1 and Carbon Caryatid: in general this sort of navbox is not appropriate for disambiguation pages, see MOS:DABICON. older ≠ wiser 13:53, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Bkonrad and AlanM1: Oh dear - I've spent rather a long time implementing the kind suggestion that User:AlanM1 prepared for me. I had just come back to this page to report on progress. If navboxes are "in general...not appropriate", then can you suggest a better way to alert readers to the phenomenon of referring to contentious topics by their initial? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 15:28, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

I was wondering how best to disambiguate those template entries when I stumbled across this discussion. Transcluding a navbox in a dab and having intentional links to dabs in a navbox are both highly unusual, and we don't really have procedures in place for dealing with either. Certes (talk) 21:22, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Dab pages don't normally have navboxes because navboxes provide topical navigation and dab pages don't represent topics so don't need topical navigation. But I don't see any reason not to make an exception here – dab page can sometimes assume a topical aspect, as happens when dab pages that list people with a certain surname might be categorised somewhere under the otherwise clearly non-dab Category:Surnames. All the X-words are related as members of a class, so it's not unreasonable for each member to link to the others. – Uanfala (talk) 21:46, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Having said, I would like to add that even though I have no objection to seeing this navbox on dab pages, like K-word, it certainly strikes me as inappropriate for articles like The D-Word to have that. – Uanfala (talk) 21:50, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

There's nothing connecting these pages other than an arbitrariness of language. I object to including them on disambiguation pages as they do not help readers to navigate between ambiguous topics per MOS:DABICON. older ≠ wiser 21:58, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

It is the very linguistic phenomenon that interests me - I quite like the phrase "an arbitrariness of language". We list and link plenty of other arbitrary collections, for example significant events that happened on April 14, no matter what year or country. X-words are members of a class, just as April14-events are members of a class. If an exception can be made such that the navbox may be included, great; if not, what other mechanism can be suggested to make the class findable by curious readers? (By the way User talk:Uanfala, is your comment above -- "I have objection" -- missing a "no"?) Carbon Caryatid (talk) 12:52, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Ah, yes, fixed now. As for the analogy with events and dates, we might have an article about April 14, but any articles there might be about events that happened on this date will not link to the other events that happened on the same date, either via navboxes, or in the text. – Uanfala (talk) 13:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

OK, it's not a perfect analogy, but readers looking at an article about one April14-event will know that there are plenty of other events that happened on the same day, and plenty of April13-events and April15-events too. I don't think the same can be said of x-words. I am thinking particularly of the large part (half?) of our readership for whom English is not the first language. If you know that there are one or a couple of words so powerful they must never be spoken (e.g. the N-word), it does not follow that you realise that most of the English alphabet has received a similar treatment, sometimes with highly ambiguous results. Yesterday I discovered that "the W-word" has been used since the turn of the century for whore, worship, witch, woman, wetback, and I can't remember how many other subjects. It is a linguistic phenomenon worthy of daylight, surely. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 14:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

The page ... has been reviewd.

Hello, From time to time I've received notices that state 'The page [name of page] has been reviewed. When I look at the watchlist I can see (Page curation log) time, name of user, and marked [name of article] as reviewed (Tag: PageTriage). For some time now I've been curious of the meaning of this. I can not see any tags on the articles. Thank you! LorriBrown (talk) 21:08, 12 April 2020 (UTC) LorriBrown (talk) 21:08, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

LorriBrown, this has to do with curating new pages. This is done with new page reviewers who use the tool to evaluate new pages and lets them improve it, suggest improvements to it, nominate it for deletion, among other things. If you would like more info refer to Wikipedia:Page Curation/Help. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 22:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Tenryuu Thank you I appreciate this information! Best, LorriBrown (talk) 01:19, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

LorriBrown, it also means that the article has been released for indexing by search engines. Any article that you have created doesn't show up on google search before it is marked as reviewed. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 09:43, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Usedtobecool, Thank you this is very good to know! :-) Best, LorriBrown (talk) 14:47, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Usedtobecool, on that note, is there a way to review a page but suppress search engine indexing on it? Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:59, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Tenryuu, I know no better than is at WP:NOINDEX. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 18:49, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Usedtobecool, thanks for the link. One of my user subpages got reviewed so I assumed it's been indexed, though according to that page it seems like reviewing does not index user pages. Cheers! Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Tenryuu, that's correct. Unfortunately, commons, mediawiki and simple wikipedia results apparently don't do that; so engines throw my userpages from two of those every time I check. Regards! Usedtobecool ☎️ 14:54, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Page of an Indian Cybersecurity Expert rejected

 Courtesy link: Draft:Rahul Sasi

I have submitted about an Indian Cybersecurity expert and a well renowed Infosec speaker who has travelled across 14 countries and gave speaches. He has tons of News sources citing his works. Yet it failed the review. Kindly help me where it went wrong ? SahilZAC (talk) 21:49, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

SahilZAC, welcome to the Teahouse. Reading AngusWOOF's comment it seems that he would prefer your best three sources to consider for the review. I suggest leaving a message on his talk page or on the draft's talk page to start a correspondence with him. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 22:04, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

SahilZAC. I've only looked at a couple of the sources, but: the first one is a mere mention, and the third one is partly by him, not about him. Neither of these contributes towards his notability. Have a look at WP:CSMN. --ColinFine (talk) 09:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

ColinFine Can i know which are these sources.? Plenty of news sources have covered his research. I will remove the source which was written by him. Are we looking mainly on links in the infocards ?

courtesy ping ColinFine; mention without signature^^ Usedtobecool ☎️ 14:56, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

SahilZAC. I have no idea what "links in the infocards" means. What about CSMN do you not understand? And, pinging doesn't work unless you sign the post. Thanks, Usedtobecool --ColinFine (talk) 21:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Correcting an article

Hi. I've never edited a Wikipedia page before. But I saw an error, an incorrect date, on a page.

I created an account, and tried to correct it, but got all kinds of "citation error" notices. Thus it appears that I don't know what I'm doing. I would appreciate your help (or someone else correcting the error).

The page in question is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Landers_earthquake

The website talks about a foreshock that happened in Joshua Tree, but it lists the date as April 23rd. This is wrong. This Joshua Tree quake happened on April 22nd, and I have several sources to back me up. It happened just before 10pm on the 22nd, and thus a lot of news stories might be dated April 23rd. However the actual quake happened on April 22nd.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Russ Rwflash (talk) 22:48, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Rwflash. The date of the foreshock is currently reported as (UTC), which is Coordinated Universal Time, a worldwide standard. UTC is the local time in London, and Wikipedia operates on UTC. UTC is often used in articles about scientific topics, and April 23 is correct in UTC. On the other hand, the date and time of the main earthquake is reported in local time. So, there is a discrepancy that should be discussed at Talk: 1992 Landers earthquake. I added a reference to the Los Angeles Times story about the foreshock. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:15, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

We might have a template similar to {{convert}} that shows both local and UTC times. I have a feeling I saw something once, but can't recall if it was intended for article space or just talk. Pelagic (talk) 15:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Disgusting George Pell

 Courtesy link: George Pell

Is it not possible to remove Pell's countenance from the home page? This sanctimonious hypocrite is a disgrace to his religion, whatever it is, and is truly unfit to be a part of the human race, as bad as that is. His crimes should overwhelm the technicalities upon which his convictins were overturned. We have seen enough of this dough-faced creep. PLEASE get rid of him. 70.105.250.100 (talk) 01:53, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

If you wish to talk about getting his picture removed, please refer to the article's talk page. Unless it violates a copyright of some sort it is highly unlikely that the image of him will be removed. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 01:58, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Tenryuu, FWIW, the IP is presumably referring to the main page, where Pell's picture is currently present under "In the News" due to his recent acquittal. Moaz786 (talk to me or see what I've been doing) 02:01, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Moaz786, I saw that; perhaps I should redirect the IP editor to the Talk:Main Page then? Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 02:23, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Tenryuu, perhaps we should refer the IP to WP:BLPREMOVE which I am tempted to invoke for his posts to this thread. Elizium23 (talk) 11:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Elizium23, the last time this IP made meaningful edits was in 2016 and so far hasn't made any further changes in regards to the subject. If anyone can close this I think we can lay the matter to rest. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 14:57, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: The poster is unlikely to be the same person that posted using that IP in 2016, but I'm not sure why that would matter. Last I remember, consensus here was against implementing the type of "closing" used elsewhere (e.g., admin noticeboards). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 23:21, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: I'm aware that the person using that IP is most likely not the one from a few years back. In any case, it doesn't seem like they've done anything else since yesterday besides post here. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:34, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

You might find him disgusting, but he is in the news. It will pass. Then people will spend much time and aggro fighting over neutrality and due weight in his bio. Probably we've also had recent pictures for Weinstein and the-other-guy-whose-name-escapes-me (and they haven't had their convictions overturned). We're not celebrating the verdict, just reporting it. You could set your sights on Sky News, I heard they've been giving him a sympathathetic airing recently. And this thread will soon be archived and forgotten. But thanks for stopping by to let us know how you feel. Pelagic (talk) 15:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

is it OK to remove catalogue hyperlinks in references

in past i removed some universities hyperlinks which clearly states price, for ex oup. however, i need suggestion about whether to remove if hyperlink given is a catalogue. for ex https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/1133049. the reference contains hyperlink, isbn, oclc. Leela52452 (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC) any other suggestion or critique is preferred here

Good question, Leela52452. If our citation already has sufficient bibliographic information, does the link add any extra value? Maybe if it leads (even indirectly) to an online copy. I guess it demonstrates that the book does exist and allows confirming the metadata if not the contents.

There used to be some magic applied to ISBNs; the {{cite book}} template still has an isbn= parameter that links to Special:Booksources like this one for ISBN 0195537688. Thats a search rather than a link to a specific record, though.

Pelagic (talk) 21:15, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Edits needed in the 'Economic and social changes' section in a Puerto Rico history article.

While reading the subject article, I found numerous typos in the subject section. I do not have access to the book cited as reference material for this section. Can the original contributor be contacted so that the corrections can be implemented? The source cited is the following: 52.Ayala, Bernabe, Cesar, Rafael (2007). Puerto Rico in the American Century A History since 1898. U.S.A: The University of North Carolina Press. p. 42. 24.163.50.66 (talk) 15:03, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

It is technically possible to track down the editor who put the information in, and leave a message at their talk page; the editor may or may not be active currently. But, might I recommend leaving a note at the talk page of the article or even WP:WikiProject United States explaining the issue that other editors who happen to be active and have access to the source may become aware of it? Alternatively, you can request at WP:RX that the source page be made available to you, so you can check it yourself and make necessary corrections. Be sure to ask for the page only, so copyright doesn't prevent sharing of the document with you. This would of course require you to provide an email address where the page may be sent.

You would not need a source to simply fix the typos though. Also, you could amend the content based on sources that you do have access to, changing the citation to the source that you used to make them. Best, Usedtobecool ☎️ 09:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

İ would like to help in your sites translation.

Hello my name is Arber Sokoli. İ'm currently an Albanian student studying in Media and Journalism Turkey. İ am 19 years old and i would like to be part of the Wikipedia community. İ recdntly just registered and even though my experience writing articles is limited i belive i can be very useful as a translator. İ am currently able to read,speak and write four languages English, İtalian, Turkish and my mother language Albanian. Currently i am also trying to study international law and as i have been researching different sources about law in Wikipedia i have found many pages missing and further more i have many mistakes in the Turkish and Albanian translations. İ would like to have the possibillity to translate and write these pages myself. İ do not expect any payment and i dk not want any. İ just wish to be able to fix these mistakes. Could you please give me the authority to do so?

Last edited 3 minutes ago by Aether Kayle Wikipedia Content is available under CC BY-SA 3.0 unless otherwise noted. Terms of UsePrivacyDesktop Aether Kayle (talk) 20:16, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Aether Kayle: Welcome to Wikipedia and thanks for wanting to make it better. You don't need permission to translate articles, you just need to provide attribution to where you are translating from. See WP:TRANSLATE and WP:TRANSLATEUS RudolfRed (talk) 21:21, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

@Aether Kayle: Please note the use of 'I' (U+0049; I) as the correct capital letter in English. Your text above uses the Turkish "dotted I" 'İ' (U+0130; İ). Thanks. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:04, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

And we have pages needing translation, a huge backlog awaits you. Lectonar (talk) 10:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Music Notability

Hello! I am addressing Draft:Droeloe, an article that I wrote. It was taken down today because the topic was deemed "not sufficiently notable for inclusion in Wikipedia", and I would like to discuss the notability that I have found after reviewing Wikipedia:Notability (music). JessFranborough (talk) 03:49, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

JessFranborough, that draft cites 92 references. No sane reviewer is going to check all of them. The first few do nothing to establish that the subject is notable. If you believe that there are sources that establish notability, please list three or four such sources here. Maproom (talk) 07:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

References 15-78, which all confirm that songs exist, contribute nothing to the requirement of establishing notability. Per Maproom's request, can you list here at least three of the 'references' that are at-length content about Droeloe. P.S. I deleted the list of events (and those references), because that does not contribute to notability. David notMD (talk) 10:31, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello Maproom and David notMD! My apologies, for Droeloe’s discography I cited the songs and added links because I saw other musicians do this on their pages and thought it may be a good idea. I can delete all of those links. I had forgotten to put in this article that Droeloe’s song "Jump" was featured in an Apple Inc. advertisement. This means that Droeloe fulfills criteria number 10 on the list of Criteria for musicians and ensembles on Wikipedia:Notability (music). I just updated the Droeloe article with the Apple Inc. ad information. Here are links to the advertisement information if you would like to see here:

• https://www.applemusic.info/
• https://www.youredm.com/2017/08/16/apple-features-one-edms-best-upcoming-duos-new-commercial-watch/
• https://www.facebook.com/apple/videos/1504957402897137/

In addition per your request, here are some references that are notable about Droeloe:

• https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/dance/8495947/droeloe-mask-infomercial-only-be-me
• https://earmilk.com/2017/08/25/droeloe-wow-with-emotionally-complex-debut-ep-a-moment-in-time/
• https://edm.com/music-releases/droeloe-looking-back

JessFranborough (talk) 03:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

JessFranborough, you've listed six sources. I've reformatted them, to make them easier to identify.

The first three don't discuss the subject at all, and the third is from Facebook, which is not a reliable source. The fourth is based on an interview, and so not independent of the subject. The fifth and sixth do appear to me to contribute to establishing that the subject is notable. If you can find a couple more sources like the last two, and get rid of all the others, you should be able to get the draft accepted. Maproom (talk) 10:50, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Maproom. The first three sources that I listed were links to the information about the advertisement Droeloe participated in, not part of the reliable sources that you asked for. I didn't mean to confuse you. Here are a couple more source that will prove Droeloe's notability. Thank you!

• https://wololosound.com/lanzamientos/droeloe-virtual-friends/
• https://www.cultr.com/news/droeloe-drop-10-track-a-promise-is-made-ep/

JessFranborough (talk) 21:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Consensus building

I want to add Alexa rank to Template:Infobox newspaper for which I have to build consensus first. How can I do that? Explanation, why I want to add rank: As more and more newspapers are going online, simply acting as a website (online publication), it will be helpful if we add rank similar to Template:Infobox website. Any help in this regard will be helpful. Störm (talk) 09:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Störm, you propose it at Template talk:Infobox newspaper, clearly laying out why you think the change betters the encyclopedia. If you don't get a reply within seven days, you can make an edit request there, pointing to your proposal and WP:SILENCE, and see where it goes from there. It will either be accepted and you wait for someone to revert and discuss it with them; or it will be declined and you discuss it with the declining editor possibly leading to a more well-advertised official discussion such as WP:RFC. Best, Usedtobecool ☎️ 10:10, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Muhammadu Buhari

Resolved

 – Former removed sentence on page re-added without trouble after sentence was revised to only include what was in the cited source(s). —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello.

I was just wondering if I could get some advice concerning the president of Nigeria's page. A while ago, I added a cited reference to his chieftaincy titles to the section on "Honours". By the time that I came back, it had been removed. I assumed that it was due to the edit warring that had been going on in my absence (my president is a popular guy 😂), so I restored it and pointed out that it was cited in the edit summary.

By the time that I found my way back today, I found that the entire "Honours" section was gone - cited contribution and all.

Now ordinarily, I'd just restore it - because as far as I could tell, nobody had called its verifiability into question - but there has been quite a bit of tomfoolery going on on that page more widely, and I'd just like some advice from above on how to proceed.

Thanks in advance.

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 09:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@O.ominirabluejack: Hi your edit was reverted because it was unsourced. I would advise adding some reliable sources if you choose to add the honours section to the article in question. I am not an expert on these things but that is my advice if someone more senior or more experienced on these things would like to correct me please do. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 09:46, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, @REDMAN 2019:...

Thank you for responding. I really appreciate it.

The subsection that I was referring to - about his other honours - was referenced. I made certain to include a link to a local news source that would corroborate my contribution.

I admit to not knowing whether or not the rest of the "Honours" section was properly sourced. I just came and grafted my information into the pre-existing section where it seemed to belong.

If everybody is alright with it, I think that I'll just add my bit - with the appropriate citation - to the most recent revision. I'll leave the other honours to people that are more knowledgeable about the president's complete list of honours.

What do you say?

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 10:04, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Good idea. However that's not to discourage you from finding a reliable source for the other awards. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 10:08, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

You added the statement "These are only two of the numerous titles that the president holds ...", and followed it with a reference to a source that makes no mention of those numerous other titles. If you add a statement and follow it by a reference that does not confirm it, both statement and reference are likely to be removed. Maproom (talk) 10:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@O.ominirabluejack: To get better input from editors interested in and familiar with the subject, and to keep it grouped with the subject for future reference, discussion should be at the article's talkpage (Talk:Muhammadu Buhari). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 12:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks you, @REDMAN 2019:. I'll give it a look.

Very well, @AlanM1:... I will do so in the future.

Forgive me, @Maproom:... Clearly I fail to understand the notion of basic verifiability. That having been said, I would have thought that deleting everything provided would lead whomever does so to delete - presumably inadvertently - that which clearly has already been substantiated. After all, those titles were clearly referenced in the offending article provided.

At any rate, thanks to everyone for their help.

O.ominirabluejack (talk) 13:25, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

WANTED TO CREATE WIKIPEDIA

HELLO , wanted to create wikipedia for my company IMEX Shipping & Logistics LLC , please help . 86.98.54.211 (talk) 09:48, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello! Please take the time to read WP:COI, WP:PAID and WP:NORG. Short summary: If you try to create a WP-article, it will probably be deleted. However, if you want to try anyway, proceed to WP:YFA. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor. Just to expand on the above reply: unless your company meets our notability criteria for companies, you will not be successful. So, of the essential three links you have just been given to read and act upon in order to proceed, first read Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). If you cannot, hand on heart, demonstrate sufficient independent sources have written in depth and in detail about your company, you would be wasting your time - and ours. I did a quick Google search and found nothing that looks suitable for this encyclopaedia. You must ignore insider trade magazines, press releases and blogs, and look to books, newspapers and journals to find at least three sound, reliable sources which help meet those criteria. If you cannot, just forget it, and promote your company elsewhere, please. If you still think you stand a chance, you MUST declare your paid connection to the company on your userpage before trying to do anything further. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:59, 14 April 2020 (UTC)  

You have omitted Henderson and Indian.

2600:1702:2FD0:8280:A104:C7F0:DA13:770D (talk) 11:49, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi, welcome to the Teahouse. We have six million articles. Please be more specific and link to any pages you refer to. I guess it has something to do with Henderson Motorcycle and Indian Motocycle Manufacturing Company. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

List of motorcycle manufacturers includes Indian as current manufacturer and both Henderson and Indian as past manufacturers in the United States section. David notMD (talk) 13:42, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hyperlink / Reference / Footnote

Can we put the same matter under hyperlink and as a reference/footnote also? Please clarify. -- Mkjoshidcpl (talk) 12:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello Mkjoshidcpl, and welcome to the Teahouse. I am assuming you are asking about Draft:Vidyanidhi Dalmia? Please always name or better link the specific article in such questions. To create a successful draft, you should look into guides like WP:Your first article, or specific guidelines such as WP:GNG (what is a notable topic?), WP:RS (reliable sources for Wikipedia) and WP:REFB ("how to" format references). Very briefly summarized, you should generally not use raw external links, but put each reference directly behind the content it verifies, in a format like this: Content here.<ref>Reference details (author, title, name of publication, etc.) and link if available</ref> Hope this helps a bit, but please feel free to ask here again for more specific details. GermanJoe (talk) 14:26, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Freedom Mobile page

I was just looking at the Freedom Mobile Wiki, and it seems that the writer(s) of the description do not like Freedom Mobile at all! They describe it as the worst provider, and say that they are 'thieving' money from Canadians. I don't think this is honest or professional. Freedom Mobile is probably the smallest provider, and might not be the best, but it has many satisfied customers who are getting the deal that they wanted. 76.69.114.23 (talk) 13:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for drawing our attention to that piece of vandalism, which was done yesterday, and has just been removed. --ColinFine (talk) 13:32, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Gordon Ramsey request

Can someone please edit Gordon Ramsey’s page to list Masterchef Australia 2020, April 13th to present? Thanks CDart950 (talk) 13:39, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

CDart950, the page is semi-protected, so you should be able to do it yourself. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:07, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't think CDart950 has yet make enough edits to be autoconfirmed, Tenryuu. In the meantime, you can request additions or changes to a semi-protected article by following the instructions at Wikipedia:Protection policy#semi, CDart950. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Cordless Larry, my apologies; I'd forgotten that semi-protected pages were editable only by autoconfirmed users and above. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Improving Images on on Article

Hi, WikiNOOB here!

I'm currently going through public domain/CC0 images from the Smithsonian and seeing if they are useful in Wikipedia articles. I've come across the article for Gladys Bentley, which has a single image. I have found a better image that is basically the same, but has far higher quality here: https://www.si.edu/object/gladys-bentley-americas-greatest-sepia-player-brown-bomber-sophisticated-songs:nmaahc_2011.57.25.1 Would replacing the current image be considered an improvement? RevoltoftheBeavers (talk) 13:51, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

That looks to me to be a better version of the same photo. I suggest that instead of uploading it as a new image to Commons, you use it to replace the high-contrast version there, and give the source in place of the current "Source en.wikipedia (Unknown)". Maproom (talk) 14:20, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello again! In the File History section of the Commons image, I see a message that says "You cannot overwrite this file." Is my account not old enough/experienced enough? How should I proceed? RevoltoftheBeavers

Hi, RevoltoftheBeavers. In the File history section, for me it says "Upload a newer version of this file". So it might very well be an issue with account-status. If you don't get an answer here from somebody more knowledgeable about Commons (sorry, I'm inexperienced there), you could try at c:Commons:Help desk. I did a search of their Helpdesk archive, but the only hits I got, saying that you need autoconfirmed, were a little old. Pelagic (talk) 21:52, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@RevoltoftheBeavers and Maproom: The file's used on a lot of pages, would a cropped or non-cropped version work for all cases? I'm guessing most will be infoboxes or similar. Pelagic (talk) 21:57, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination

Greetings Editors If a page is recommended to Speedy Deletion can we move it into Draft so that we can improve or make necessary changes.Thoufiq313 (talk) 14:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Thoufiq313, yes. WP:DRAFTIFYing is done quite often for articles that have some potential, but aren't at our standard yet. However, do not draftify junk from the draftify policy applies - it should be used for poor quality articles with potential, not just to delay deletion. ~~ Alex Noble/1-2/TRB 15:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

One more question about submit

 Courtesy link: User:Kashish pall/sandbox

One more thing I want to ask actually I made article on my sandbox but I am creating from mobile so I don't get any button for submission. Can you help me regarding this? Kashish pall (talk) 16:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Kashish pall: The template for submitting a draft, {{subst:AFC draft}}, is not on the page. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Kashish pall: In other words, you need to add the code {{subst:AFC draft}} to the top of the page and then click the submit button. No comment on whether it is acceptable as an article. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:24, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Matthew Devereux

FYI

 – Heading created by Tenryuu.

 Courtesy link: User:Hibaesque/sandbox

Hello,

I wrote an article that was rejected in relation to the singer "Matthew Devereux". I was wondering where you would suggest I should change/alter some information on my page or could you help me with understanding how to cite a page better? Most of my information was taken from a podcast in relation to his life. His band has a verified page called "The Pale Band" and I thought it would be suitable to make one for the artist himself.

I am new to Wikipedia and welcome suggestions or edits offered by you and your team.

Thank you for your time,

Hibaesque Hibaesque (talk) 17:12, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Hibaesque: Welcome to the Teahouse. It appears the reviewer has deemed your subject unqualified for their own Wikipedia article due to the references used. I suggest going through our music notability guidelines before contacting Sulfurboy to make your case and/or ask for assistance in making it acceptable. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:23, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

How can I help?

So, I’ve been clicking “random article” and fixing spelling and grammar errors. What I want to know is, are there any other ways to find articles that need work? (I’ve found that Wikipedia articles aren’t in as good of shape as I thought, and I want to help a little.) Total Eclipse 2017 (talk) 17:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Total Eclipse 2017: Welcome to Wikipedia and thanks for wanting to help. Check out WP:TYPO for hints and tips on how to find articles that need spelling, grammar, and other fixes. RudolfRed (talk) 17:39, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks! @RudolfRed:

@Total Eclipse 2017: Shameless plug: you may be interested in joining the Guild of Copyeditors, where we keep an eye on articles with the {{copy edit}} tag and proofread requests sent in by editors. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:48, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

I’ll check it out. @Tenryuu: Total Eclipse 2017 (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

I just realized that copy editing is what I did to those two snail articles. I find it kind of fun, actually. I just go to random articles and fix their spelling and grammar. How do I join this copyedit group? @Tenryuu: Total Eclipse 2017 (talk)

@Total Eclipse 2017: You don't have to formally join; adding your name to the list of participants is a formality but if you want to make it known you can go here. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:10, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Total Eclipse 2017:, You might also look at Wikipedia:Community portal. Near the top you will find nine groups of articles that need improvement. Scroll farther down, and you will see a box, "Active Wiki Fixup Projects", that contains links to 22 projects that aim to improve articles in a number of ways.Eddie Blick (talk) 00:32, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Teblick: I’ll check it out.

Scientific paper on Covid 19 infection management strategy based on scientific research.

How can I publish an article on Covid 19 infection management in Wikipedia? Dr Mukundan M K (talk) 17:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Dr Mukundan M K: If you are trying to publish a paper that you wrote, then this is not the place for it. See WP:OR. Articles must be based on information in published reliable sources. If I misunderstood your intent, then go to WP:YFA for guidance on creating a draft article for review. RudolfRed (talk) 17:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Dr Mukundan M K: Note, though, that we already have a significant amount of content on the subject. Check out WP:WikiProject COVID-19 for more about our coverage. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

I am not getting what references to give

hey, I have just edited a page called bhuvan bam, I added a table of his songs on YouTube but it is removed. One editor named Aguy777 removed it saying that I didn't provide a reliable source. I an not getting what source to give. I tried giving the youtube channel link but he still removed it. KingeVishesh (talk) 17:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

KingeVishesh, welcome to the Teahouse. Wikipedia asks for independent, reliable sources for subjects to meet its general notability guidelines. While the Youtube channel link can be considered a decent primary source, Wikipedia is more concerned about secondary sources that have reported on the subject. For more information see WP:RS. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:51, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistencies between pages

Hello, I would like to ask a couple of questions:

• Why can I do visual editing in the articles, but not on pages like this one and my own discussion page? I find the visual editing much easier to use.
• The Wikipedia page looks different in my country (NL) compared to the English version. The NL version has a search box (which is very useful), while the EN version doesn't. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoofdpagina (NL) vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page (EN)
• Another example is the references. NL editors seem to put these nice boxes around them, while it's plain in EN. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schloss_Itter (NL) vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itter_Castle (EN)
• Last question. When you want to submit a new page in EN, it first goes through some kind of drafting process, but an NL page is up right away. I can understand why it needs to go through an approval process, but it makes me feel like the bar is set high right away. Rather than I can make an alright page (since I'm new) and more experienced user can polish it up.

Thank you for your time. Mikalagrand (talk) 17:38, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Mikalagrand, in short, all of the different language wikipedias are independent, and developed mostly in isolation from each over.

For the first question, it can only be used on talk pages by editing URLs, this isn't an oversight, but a deliberate decision - pinging Whatamidoing (WMF) who will have a much better answer to why this is.

2 and 3 are more stylistic changes which realistically came down to what the users preferred when the site was much newer.

For your last point about drafts, this only applies for users with less than 10 edits over 4 days - anyone over this can create pages themselves, the same as any other wiki. The details on why this became the case are at Wikipedia:Autoconfirmed article creation trial/Post-trial Research Report. ~~ Alex Noble/1-2/TRB 17:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, Mikalagrand, and welcome to English Wikipedia.

• • Sadly, the Visual Editor is not fully functional, and there are some limitations on what can be done with it. This is the responsibility of the Wikimedia Foundation.
  • Each language version of Wikipedia has a high degree of autonomy and visual features in one language may not appear in another language.
  • On English Wikipedia, in order to create a new article directly, an account must be autoconfirmed which means the account must be at least four days old and have made at least ten edits. This is a necessary deterrent to spam and inappropriate articles. We have multiple levels of quality control. I am not sure how you define "alright" but we want new articles to be in basic compliance with our policies and guidelines. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Mikalagrand, welcome to the English Wikipedia project.

• The visual editor is limited to certain spaces, like the articlespace, Its limitations (in English) can be found here. That is why I stick to learning source coding. :P
• I'm not sure why you aren't seeing a search box in the EN Wikipedia. Assuming you're using the same skin they should be in the same place.
• NL and EN are separate projects and are managed independently from one another. While we will cross-link to articles for translation purposes the standards that each project has do not necessarily apply to other languages.
• Again, different standards. We've had a lot of issues with bad articles being made and being improperly referenced; as such the drafting process was born. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:58, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

(ec)Hello and welcome, Mikalagrand!

• I don't know the why of it, Wikipedia:VisualEditor#Limitations doesn't say, just that it is so. "Current known limitations" hints that perhaps this will change.
• As it appears to me, both pages have searchboxes in the same place.
• I don't know the reason, perhaps noone has suggested it. It doesn't look like an obvious improvement to me, but I'm used to "our" way.
• You can create articles directly when you have become WP:AUTO-confirmed, but such articles should fairly obviously fulfill WP:GNG, otherwise they'll disappear quickly. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:01, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Article Editing Issues

Seemingly resolved

 – Edit button appearing on mobile device without any intervention. WP:VPT suggested as a venue to ask technical questions. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi guys. I was trying to edit the filmography section on the Wikipedia article for the actor Joel McKinnon Miller (I intended to add a show he cameoed in - the link to the article is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_McKinnon_Miller), but when I clicked the edit button and brought up the editor view it only showed the table for his basic information (i.e: name, date of birth, spouse etc...) and the brief description of him below said table, but it didn't even show anything for the other drop-down articles (i.e: filmography, references etc...). I checked the visual editor and the source editor, and neither of them show anything of these other sections. There also wasn't an edit button next to the drop-down article for his filmography section as there usually is on other people's articles, so I was wondering what to do about that and if it could be fixed. Thank you for your time. 2A02:C7F:D847:7C00:3426:AB1C:F0AE:EFF7 (talk) 18:01, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, if you press on where the edit button is supposed to be on your mobile device, what happens? Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:12, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

It appears that it's fixed now - the edit button appears next to the filmography section. Thank you anyway. :)

Good to hear. If it happens again the folks over at WP:VPT might be able to answer your technically-inclined questions. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

So many FA reviews in 2006/2007?

I'm fairly new to WP editing. Looking at talk pages, I've been getting the sense that a lot of FA reviews occurred around 2006 or 2007, as opposed to being evenly distributed in the last, say, 15 years. Is my observation correct? And if so, I'm just curious why it is. Thanks! Ambrosia0 (talk) 18:34, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

"Active editors" (English Wikipedia editors with >100 edits per month)

The monthly statistics for FAC are here. As with all of Wikipedia, FAC was more active back then; there was a spike in editing between 2005-08 which rapidly dropped, and levelled off at its current level of around 3500 active editors (see the graph to the right). Plus, there was more low-hanging fruit back then, and the general standards were lower so it was easier for an article to pass. ‑ Iridescent 18:45, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the super fast response! Ambrosia0 (talk) 04:09, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Jambyl Region

Summary

 – KzShop blocked by Bonadea. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:42, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello everybody. I ran into the following problem. In this page Jambyl Region I saw a mistake (the name of the region is in Arabic script (in this region and country there is no Arabic language and Arabic script), therefore, I decided to fix it. I deleted the error, wrote the reason, but after a few minutes, my edit was canceled. I still didn’t understand the reason, I didn’t understand what the moderator who deleted my edit meant.

By the way, this error is on almost all articles about the regions and cities of Kazakhstan. I consider this a gross mistake, since in no region of this country is there an Arabic language or Arabic script.

Before that, I wrote about this on the talk page (check the talk page of that article). But there was no answer. However, how can I fix this error? I mean the error in the article. KzShop (talk) 18:44, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@KzShop: It seems you are editing under this account after being blocked as JackAtkinson22. If this is across all Kazakhstan regions and cities, then you should argue your case with evidence as to why it shouldn't be so, even if it isn't in use anymore; otherwise, status quo takes precedence. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Tenryuu:I know this user, he created a post in reddit (in Kazakhstan subreddit), and there I found out about this error. Therefore, I want to fix it. My question was, how can I prove it? And where? On what page? On the talk page, or is there a special page for consensus?

@KzShop: You would discuss this issue over at Talk:Jambyl Region. I think an unregistered IP did the same thing already. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

The note on the talk page is just from today. You need to give time for responses. RudolfRed (talk) 18:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

FTR: KzShop has been blocked as a sockpuppet of a previously blocked user, JackAtkinson22. They had already been told how they should go about trying to get consensus in favour of their change, but they chose to edit war and attack other users, and now create more accounts to do the same thing, instead. --bonadea contributions talk 20:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft publication

FYI

 – Heading created by Tenryuu.

 Courtesy link: Draft:Morgan Brittany Osman

So I tried to publish a page called Draft:Morgan Brittany Osman. She is a US Reality TV star who featured on two notable TV shows on Oxygen & VHS. She has since left but has many brand deals & endorsements online, I think she should have a wiki page, as she is a notable person who has dontated clothes during this current situation (COVID:19). So please any help on writing a wiki page on a public person that doesn’t class as “unambiguous advertising”, i’m all ears, KylePippen1 (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@KylePippen1: The first thing you want to do (aside from layout) is provide good, reliable sources. See WP:REFBEGIN for more help. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:06, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

How to lock the page for further edit ?

Summary

 – ANAMIKA6SI raised concerns about protecting page; investigation led to account being blocked and page being deleted. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

How to lock the page for further edit ? to save it from mischievous people editing it or deleting it . only reliable source can edit .. how to do so ? ANAMIKA6SI (talk) 20:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

ANAMIKA6SI, please link to the page in question so that we have context. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

ANAMIKA6SI, Wikipedia's philosophy is that "anyone can edit." Therefore, while we can and sometimes do "lock" (we call it "protecting") pages from editing by inexperienced editors, we don't do so unless we really need to. If the page isn't getting unusually large amounts of vandalism, it's usually enough to quickly undo the vandalism after it occurs. Gaelan 💬✏️ 20:26, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

How can I protect this Wikipedia page I wrote ?? Surabhi Prabhu . All the credentials are verifiable. Competitors hire PR to malicious ruin the page 202.134.174.127 (talk) 20:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

ANAMIKA6SI Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I assume this refers to Surabhi Prabhu. Articles are not protected("locked") in anticipation of vandalism or other inappropriate editing; there must be a demonstratable problem with vandalism in order to protect a page. You also cannot have a page protected to limit editing it to yourself; any editor can edit any article. Ordinary editors cannot delete a page; they can blank it, but that is easily reversed. 331dot (talk) 20:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

I assume you also made the above IP comment; remember to log in before posting. 331dot (talk) 20:24, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

ANAMIKA6SI Since you are concerned with other PR firms, does that mean you work for Prabhu's PR firm? 331dot (talk) 20:26, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

no I'm not Pr, THIS MY FIRST contribution to Wikipedia, I'm learning . I will contribute more in future .

ANAMIKA6SI You referred to "competitors"- an odd term to use if you aren't in PR or otherwise working for the person you wrote about. 331dot (talk) 21:14, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

331dot, I parse their sentence as Competitors [of the subject of the article have] hire[d] PR [firms] to malicious[ly] ruin the page

ANAMIKA6SI, I wonder why you say this is your FIRST contribution to Wikipedia, when you had made 20 edits to five different articles before you came to Surabhi Prabhu, including an undiscussed (and subsequently reverted) move of another article. --ColinFine (talk) 21:27, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps a language issue conflating contribution = submission (as in submitting a new article versus 'just' improving existing ones)? I wish we could somehow get the message out there that there are better ways of contributing than creating new articles. [Please ping me in replies. I didn't think my comment warranted a ping to Colin, but apologies if I should have done so.] Pelagic (talk) 22:26, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

On the other hand, I see no vandalism there, so I wonder why ANAMIKA6SI would be expecting "competitors" to show up. Pelagic (talk) 22:26, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

talk please check BONADEA is vandalising all my contributions. he is saying I'm paid and reporting me . isn't it like bullying??? since I'm new , I'm trying to write and he is being aggressive. he says it looks like paid advertisement. please anyone can help me with this bully ??

(ec) To get the ping to work, ANAMIKA6SI, use [[User:username]] and sign with ~~~~. It needs to have the User: prefix rather than User talk: The mechanics of discussion here can be daunting, but you'll get used to it.  :) I'll address the maintenance templates when I can; I'm late in getting ready for work and must go. Pelagic (talk) 23:08, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

P.S. A bit off-topic, but you shan't steal pictures from Instagram and upload them to Commons as "own work". If you really did take the photo, then what is your relationship to the actress? (Bonadea has tagged the file for speedy deletion and provided a link to the Insta post.) Pelagic (talk) 22:35, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Note my paragraph here posted near simultaneously with the reply above, but I didn't get an edit-conflict message. Pelagic (talk) 22:45, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Pelagic: It looks like WMF turned off 2-column edit conflict on 6th April. I've also experienced problems losing work and not getting a conflict message. See this. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Nick, I did get a full-page EC just now, so might be unrelated. I'll be watchful for further weirdness, though. Pelagic (talk) 23:08, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Well, four "different" accounts are tag teaming to keep the current version of the article a poorly written promotional piece – and other accounts have created drafts and articles about the actor since 2015, all deleted as non-notable or pure spam. --bonadea contributions talk 23:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I only saw two users on a cursory glance, and was about to ask ANAMIKA6SI "what is your relationship to Maya82ster?" Thanks for looking into this, Bonadea. Pelagic (talk) 23:15, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

What are Administrators?

So, I tried to edit the Main Page, and when I tried, a message came up that said, “This page is protected so that only Administrators can edit it.” Why is it protected, and more importantly, what are Administrators? Total Eclipse 2017 (talk) 20:52, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Total Eclipse 2017 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The Main Page is protected from editing because it is often a target of vandalism. What is is that you were trying to do? Administrators are editors that have certain abilities that would be irresponsible for every user to have, such as deleting pages or blocking users, and are chosen by a community vetting process. 331dot (talk) 21:00, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

No reason, I literally just wanted to see if it had an “edit” button like other pages... Total Eclipse 2017 (talk) 21:02, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Total Eclipse 2017, you can find much more information at Wikipedia: Administrators. Please do not try to edit any Wikipedia page for "no reason", although you can always use your sandbox for experimenting. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:16, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

‘Kay... Total Eclipse 2017 (talk) 21:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

"Eisenhower's treaty with the Grey Aliens" is a phrase which appears in a catalogue which is sent to me by "Inner Traditions/Bear & Company/Books for the Mind, Body & Spirit Since 1975"

On p. 29 of the catalog, headed "NEW AGE/METAPHYSICS", they offer a book called Alien World Order: The Reptilian Plan to Divide and Conquer the Human Race by Len Kasten which reads in part "Kasten shows how Eisenhower's treaty with the Grey Aliens, signed in 1954, gave reptilian aliens the authority to abduct humans for 'research.' "

I would be interested to read a review or critique of the company that publishes this catalog and/or of the book mentioned above.

yours truly, Paula Bonnell BonnellP (talk) 21:35, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

BonnellP Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. This is a place for new users to ask questions about using Wikipedia, and is not a general question asking forum. You could try the Reference Desk. 331dot (talk) 21:40, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hey Paula, welcome to Wikipedia! Unfortunately, we do not provide such help here; this page is dedicated to helping users with editing Wikipedia. However, I would advise you that there is no such Alien World Order and that anyone that claims that aliens signed a treaty with Pres. Eisenhower is a phony. --MrClog (talk) 21:42, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

How to edit a feature film page

Hey there! Old school HTML editor here and new to wikipedia, I feel I'm picking it up quickly! While making a few small edits here and there I'm working on entering a feature film (documentary - independent) into the site. I noticed generally speaking the best practice is to insert a type of quick reference infobox to the right of the screen to list directors, runtime, studio,etc. Examples of notable comparable entrees here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minding_the_Gap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Solo

Almost embarrassing, but I'm not even sure how to search for what this functionality would be. I have the page built and cited except for this. Any thoughts of what to research to find what this is that I need to insert?

Thank you!

Nick Venicenothing (talk) 22:53, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Venicenothing: Welcome to Wikipedia. What you are looking for is called an infobox, in this case it is {{Infobox_film}}. Click the link to see the documentation and examples of how to fill it out. RudolfRed (talk) 23:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Hey there RudolfRed, so much appreciate it! I'll look into it now. Thank you!

Hey there RudolfRed, one last question. I'm trying to upload an image for the film poster, which falls into the non-free but able to use in context of the film on the page I'm creating. It keeps asking me for license info, is there any help documentation to help me upload this? Since I'm unverified there's a process to ask for it to be uploaded I'm using. Is there any help-info on this process? Thank you!

Hey Venicenothing, I'm not Rudolf but let me try to help you. While you can use it once you have published the article, you cannot use a non-free file while it's still a draft. If you are having problems uploading the non-free file once your draft has become an article, feel free to leave a new message here or at my talk page. --MrClog (talk) 00:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi MrClod Thank you for your help! Here's the page I was just published (my first!) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Road_(film) Here's a link to the film poster that I'd like to put into the infobox. Can you help me upload this and insert it? Not trying to bother you, if there's a tutorial or way I should do it let me know.

Film poster to insert: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BOTAyZGEzOTUtZjFmNi00ZjMyLWIzYTEtY2NmMDk1ZTljNGQxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzI0NTkyNzY@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,707,1000_AL_.jpg

Thank you!

edit semi-protected article

Can i edit wikipedia article which are semi-protected? My article name is Overwatch (video game). Anmol Jindal (talk) 23:46, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Anmol Jindal, your account is autoconfirmed, so you should have no problem editing that article. Gaelan 💬✏️ 23:55, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Translation Cleanup- Keep Sources?

Resolved

 – Direct translation with original sources are allowed (English preferred per WP:NONENG); suggestion to acknowledge where citations are from in edit summaries. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:42, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello! Very new to Wikipedia. I recently cleaned up the translation of a Spanish-to-English page Maria Eugenia Suarez and added multiple paragraphs that were included in the Spanish page but not the English one. So far everything I've done is direct translation, since I don't want to get into the weeds of the many Wikipedia standards for adding new content. So with the added paragraphs, I'm wondering if I can copy the (Spanish-language) citations over as well? Carla.Abra (talk) 23:53, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

You are absolute allowed to use reliable sources in Spanish, though we prefer English-language sources if they exist. --MrClog (talk) 00:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

In your edit summaries for the addition of citations acknowledge where the info is from. David notMD (talk) 00:53, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Carla.Abra: Note that each Wikipedia project (in each language) has its own standards, and enwiki is among the more strict as far as source reliability and notability. The fact that an article exists on another Wikipedia does not give it any special waiver of enwiki standards when it is translated and created here – it should comply just like any other new article. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:00, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all! Your comments are very helpful. Carla.Abra (talk) 02:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Compliments to Wikipedia

Hi everyone! I know that this isn't really a question, but I would like to give my compliments to Wikipedia and all of the Wikimedia projects. I haven't been a user for very long, and I'm so surprised at all the things that go on in the background. It's like when I wasn't a user, all I saw was the tiny top of an immense iceberg of edits, talk pages, and users. I'm so glad I'm able to experience all of this now and hopefully make a difference on Wikipedia. Thanks a lot! Wikiforever47 (talk) 02:11, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hope you enjoy your time here as many of us have! Take your time to explore and have fun. :) bibliomaniac15 05:21, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

What's gone wrong with fonts in Watchlist? My eyes hurt.

Assume this has already been addressed, so if you could just point me to relevant conversation, that would be great. Thanks. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 02:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hobbes Goodyear, hello, welcome to the Teahouse. I haven't seen any changes to the Watchlist. Could you be a bit more specific about what you are seeing, what skin you are using, and if you have any gadgets enabled that would affect your watchlist? --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 02:54, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Including an artist's real name in an article (when it's claimed they do not the name in the public sphere)

It is claimed Mxmtoon doesn't want her real name in the public sphere. However, her name has been published by at least one source. Is there any Wikipedia policy to help decide? See discussion at Talk:Mxmtoon Jonpatterns (talk) 07:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC) Jonpatterns (talk) 07:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Jonpatterns. My immediate question is how do we know that she wants her name to be kept private? I can't get to the bottom of that from reading the talk page comments. If the subject of the article has communicated this to an editor, then it might be a good idea for her to be advised to contact OTRS (Wikipedia:Contact us) so that the issue can be discussed privately between her and the OTRS team. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:25, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses the most common name for a subject. If the person's stage name is only in one or a few sources, and vast majority use their stage name, it may be possible to keep their real name out. I would suggest following Cordless Larry's suggestion. 331dot (talk) 08:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Do not "fix" redirects - please clarify my assumptions

after WP:NOTBROKEN, i have made some assumptions, please say yes or no

• dont change interwiki redirects
• dont change http -> https in hyperlinks in references or notes ... if there are no other changes in article
• do not change error 302, if there are no other changes in article
• change errors 301 or 302 along with other changes [ frequent changes made by me : removing www in website, adding archive date and hyperlink in case of 404 error, removing non existent interwiki links in article, adding missing authority control, etc..] Leela52452 (talk) 07:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC) any OTHER suggestion or critique is preferred here

Don't change interwiki redirects. Y Unless the link doesn't make sense in its current state, avoid changing them

Don't change HTTP → HTTPS in hyperlinks in references or notes... N If there is a HTTPS link available, you should always try changing it to that.

Do not change error 302. Y I think you're confused. 302 means the page has been successfully found, so you should leave it like that without a doubt.

Change errors 301 or 302 along with other changes (frequent changes made by me: removing www in a website, adding archive date and hyperlink in case of 404 error, removing non-existent interwiki links in an article, adding missing authority control, etc..) Y If you have a page redirecting, like in a 301, change it to the final page. All of the things you said in the parentheses are correct.

Hope this helps! — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 14:07, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Shadow Warrior

Header inserted by ColinFine (talk) 09:28, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Kiyomi the sunshine (talk) 08:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

I found this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Warrior which has many sections empty. how much info should I collect from main article. a summary would be enough I guess.Kiyomi the sunshine (talk) 08:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Kiyomi the sunshine. Welcome to the Teahouse, and thanks for wanting to improve Wikipedia. (I added a header to your question). I'm not sure there's any need for those sections in the first place, since they link to the main articles: there might as well be just a list of links. Far more valuable would be finding some reliable, independent sources which discuss the series (not just the individual games) in some depth - without such sources, the series will fail notability. --ColinFine (talk) 09:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Getting notification from actions (like reply to your post)

Can I get notification from replying and when someone revert my changes? in the replying they often misspell my username can I do something about it? Thanks in advance – Erfan Talk☻ 09:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello Et0zl! You should get a notification if someone reverts you, but it depends on how they did it. If the one who replied to you didn't WP:PING you, you won't get a notification, but looking at your Help:Watchlist can help. Or your edithistory, [1]. If it doesn't say "current", someone has edited the page after you (not that helpful on high-traffic pages like this one). Hope this helps some. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:09, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Thanks a lot – Erfan Talk☻ 10:30, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Et0zl: you can hardly blame other users for mispelliing your username when you've chosen to display a different name in your signature than your actual username! You also fail to link to your user page, which might have helped, as well. These are two things you could definitely do something about.  Nick Moyes (talk) 10:53, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Nick Moyes I don't blame anyone, My point is this is happening and what can I do about it. Thanks for your help – Erfan Talk☻ 10:59, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Well 'blame' might not have been the best word I could have used, but I have offered you an additional suggestion for something you can do actually do to address the issue, over and above the advice already given you. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:05, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, not sure if I adjusted some setting or not, but I do get an alert when someone reverts my edits; maybe it has to do with manually reverting instead of clicking "undo" on diffs? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 15:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

That's what I meant, yes. If I "revert" your edit by just deleting it with a normal edit of my own, you won't get a ping. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:25, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Abed-Elrahman Ahmed

Can anyone here at wikipedia create a page named Abed-Elrahman Ahmed? It's for a boy that I care extremely much. Please someone create the page so I can edit it. After you create it please send me a talk. Thanks!Julia Schubert (talk) 10:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello Julia Schubert! Probably not, see WP:BASIC. Do you have such references? If not, such an article will be quickly deleted. If you do, I recommend you read Help:YFA carefully and then start a Help:Userspace draft. Assuming you don't mean Abdelrahman Ossama. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:14, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Julia Schubert, are you referring to the 12-year-old Romanian chess player? Any Wikipedia article (not page) about this boy can only say what reliable, published sources have written about him, because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not social media. If you care extremely much, start Googling for reliable published sources, and write the article. There is a Romanian Wikipedia where you may have an easier time writing the article.--Quisqualis (talk) 05:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Sourcing question

Hallo, I am trying to improve Carlo Masi bio as it has been selected for deletion. He was a porn actor so sourcing is one of the hardest thing. I would like to mention that he appeared in many calendars (often on the cover) and there is a lot of merchandise after him. Do you think there is anyway I can source this? is for example amazon.com a possible source? After all any source that shows the cover would do, am I wrong? thank you for helping. --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 11:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC) AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 11:03, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, generally, you don't need to mention merchandise in Wikipedia articles. Regarding using Amazon reviews as sources, per WP:RSPSOURCES, Amazon is not a reliable source and is not to be used. Hope this helps. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 13:54, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Berrely Hallo, thank you for your answer. I was considering mentioning calendars and merchandising after Carlo Masi because some one questions his notability so I thought that being on the cover of a lot of calendars and having a vaste merchandise after you could be a rafforzative for his notability. Anyway, I guess it was a bod idea than. thank you --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 14:14, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

How to my article page in Vietnamese language to English

Dear sir / madam, unknowingly my article page is in Vietnamese language, please help to me , made English as the article page. Msgouda2412 (talk) 13:05, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Msgouda2412, can you please elaborate? What is your article? — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 13:50, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Apostolic Movement

Please. Can someone help me to improve the Draft:Apostolic Movement to create a new article on Wikipedia? Thanks Progettistauniversale (talk) 13:18, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Teahouse volunteers primarily answer questions on how to, but do not directly help edit articles (unless they are so moved). The draft has been declined twice, each time with the reviewer providing guidance. David notMD (talk) 22:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Help regarding reporting

Not an issue for Teahouse. Referred elsewhere

 – WP:DISPUTE for content disputes, WP:AN/I for behavioural disputes.

hello, i want to report a user for constantly removing translations of names and adding his own country's language's names instead because of his bias, and he doesn't seem to give up after mulitple discussions on talk pages. How do I report him? Through Wikipedia email? CuriousGolden (talk) 13:20, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CuriousGolden: you seem to be involved in a content dispute with HistoryofIran. Content disputes aren't handled by reporting users you disagree with, but by following the procedures at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. In case you ever do have an actual behavioural issue that needs to be reported, you can use WP:AN/I. However, note that your behaviour will be examined too if you do so! --MrClog (talk) 13:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

User is continiously adding anachronistic and/or revisionism names to the lede of articles. Nothing to see here, he will most likely get banned like many other users before him. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:32, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

You're aware that you're removing Azerbaijani names from Azerbaijani empires and Turkic names from Turkic empires and putting Persian instead? We'll see who'll be the one to get banned first CuriousGolden (talk)

I'm removing names (mainly added by you) that were never used under those Turkic empires (not Azerbaijani as you claim in a revisionism way), hence anachronistic. I haven't added any Persian name instead, and even if I did, I'm sure it was justified. Go on, report me if you're so sure of that. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:24, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

HistoryofIran and CuriousGolden, can we please keep this civilised and not argue with each other on the Teahouse page. I suggest taking this to another respective talk page. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 14:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Legendre Conjecture

Yesterday - April 14,2020 I sent e-mails to a number of mathematicians proposing the following: Bridgeman Conjecture

"There are at least two prime numbers between N² and (N + 1)² for every positive integer N, and two of these prime numbers form a twin prime in most cases. For N less than 2¹⁵ the eleven known exceptions are when N is equal to 9, 19, 26, 27, 30, 34, 39, 49, 53, 77, and 122."

This conjecture implies proof of Legendre's Conjecture.

My question: How do I go about getting this conjecture added to Wikipedia and included in the info on Legendre's Conjecture? 2601:5C5:201:B0B0:B555:C64:290D:139 (talk) 13:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)James N. Bridgeman 2601:5C5:201:B0B0:B555:C64:290D:139 (talk) 13:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi 2601:5C5:201:B0B0:B555:C64:290D:139, you might want to consider asking this question at WikiProject Mathematics, they can probably add your request into the article easily. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 14:11, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello Mr Bridgeman. I know zilch about mathematics, but if, as it sounds, you are hoping to advertise the brand new 'Bridgeman Conjecture' on Wikipedia, you may not do so. That is, not until sufficient independent, reliable sources have published articles describing this conjecture in enough details as to demonstrate that the world (and not just a few independent mathematicians) have taken notice of it. That is not to decry any of your contributions to science and mathematics; we simply do not publish 'Original Research' on Wikipedia, if that is what it is. In roughly the same way, we did not have an article about Donna Strickland on Wikipedia until there were published, verifiable sources talking about her achievement after she won her Nobel prize. She did great things beforehand, of course, but nobody wrote about them. Wikipedia collates and follows other sources. It does not lead by publishing new research or theorems, sorry. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)  

Charles Greathouse beat you to it in 2011, so probably gets naming rights. Listed in the comments to A063790 in the OEIS. Mathglot (talk) 02:33, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Edit exisiting page or create a new one?

This page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Logic_Factory contains information about a former game development company, which doesn't exist anymore. Yet in 2007 a Dutch software development company, called The Logic Factory, was founded. In the meantime this software development company has grown to an international company, with over 100 employees and offices in the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, India and the United States of America.

Currently I am investigating the possibility to create a Wikipedia page for them, but now I am wondering wether the existing page of The Logic Factory should be modified or if a new page should be created for it. Anyone any suggestions? Pieter van der Wulp (talk) 14:09, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Pieter van der Wulp, you might want to consider moving The Logic Factory to something similar to "The Logic Factory (defunct company) and then calling the new page "The Logic Factory (2007–present)" — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 14:30, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Pieter van der Wulp, and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid that I disagree wtih Berrely's advice. If the current company is notable (in Wikipedia's special sense), then somebody could create an article about them (rather than a "page for them"), and if somebody does, the existing article should probably be moved to a different title: probably "The Logic Factory (game company)". But until such an article is written (assuming one can be written), the policy on article titles says the that title should not be changed. If you chose to write an article about the current company, I would advise you to use articles for creation to create a draft; and when the draft is submitted and accepted, the accepting reviewer will sort out the naming. --ColinFine (talk) 16:08, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

How to update an article

Hi there. I am John Simley -- the communications director for UOP LLC. The entry for our business on Wikipedia is pretty out of date, containing technologies we no longer offer while missing others we have offered for years or decades. It also differs appreciably from how we describe the business to customers and investors in Honeywell (our parent company). How do we go about correcting these issues? 199.64.6.155 (talk) 14:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hey John Simley, welcome to the teahouse! I suggest you read Wikipedia:Edit requests and continue from there. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 14:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

What that means is that after you register an account and acknowledge on your User page the nature of your paid relationship to UOP LLC, you should not make direct edits to the article. Instead, you should specify the changes on the Talk page of the article (as in, in section ___ the wording and ref is ____ and the wording and ref should be changed to _____. Then, an unconnected editor will review the proposed change and either implement or decline. Given low traffic on the Talk page (last entry 2012!!!) there is a process for asking for evaluation of proposed changes. David notMD (talk) 22:09, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Carl Andreas Göpfert, 1768-1818

Could this be added? It is from the Newspaper Åbo Allmänna Tidning, Turku, Finland Nov. 20 1817, page 4. Nästkommande Söndag den 23 November uppföres, med benäget biträde af Herrar Amatörer, till förmon för Herr Goepffert från St. Petersburg, en fullstämmig Vocal- och Instrumental-Concert, uti Societets-Husets stora Sal, hwartill Billetter à 2 Rub. B:co Assign. stycket försäljas hos Källarmästaren derstädes samt hos Mamsell Wahlund. De Piecer som komma att exequeras, blifwa genom Afficher kungjorda. [ÅAT 20.11.1817, s. 4]. On Sunday next, the 23rd of November, shall be performed, with the kind assistance of "Herrar Amatörer" [the orchestra Gentelmen Amateurs] to the benefit of Mr. Göpfert [coming] from St. Petersburg, a complete vocal and instrumental concert, in the grand hall of the Society House, to which tickets are sold at 2 Rubels a piece by the restaurateur on the spot as well as by Mademoisell [Christina] Wahlund. The music to be performed shall be announced by posters. 91.159.202.73 (talk) 14:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC) Carsten Bregenhoej 91.159.202.73 (talk) 14:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC) Helsinki Finland

ref: from the Newspaper Åbo Allmänna Tidning, Turku, Finland Nov. 20 1817, page 4.

Hello IP user, and welcome to the Teahouse. The entire text of the notice (as fantastic as it is – De Piecer som komma att exequeras, blifwa genom Afficher kungjorda – that's beautiful in so many ways!) shouldn't be added to the article, but I think it can be used as a source. Add a reference (see this information) with the information you have listed above – title, date, and page. Nice find! --bonadea contributions talk 14:46, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

A page about me

Sonal Jindal Business Woman (talk) 14:39, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Please help me how to start my wikipedia ? Sonal Jindal Business Woman (talk) 14:39, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Sonal Jindal Business Woman, please don't. We strongly discourage writting autobiographies. It is very difficult to do this whilst following policies:

• Articles are based upon what reliable published sources say about something - this means you have to completely forget everything not in those sources, not easy.
• Articles are neutrally written - obviously in your interest to have a positive article about yourself, but this isn't neutral.
• Articles need to be about notable subjects - it is difficult to determine if you are notable yourself.

Ultimately, we aren't somewhere to promote yourself. If you are notable enough to have an article, someone will come and write one in time. ~~ Alex Noble/1-2/TRB 15:32, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank You for your input. Sonal Jindal Business Woman (talk) 16:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

About My Talk Page

Deleted due to finding the answer elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thibeinn (talk • contribs) 15:13, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Thibeinn: OK, but per WP:TPO please don't edit talk page postings if others may have seen (and possibly begun to reply to) them. You should just add a comment to disregard the question. Thanks. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:31, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect citations

FYI

 – Heading created by Tenryuu.

I removed several incorrect citations on the Settlement Schools wiki page. I am the manager of the collection cited and the citations removed point to materials that our collection does not have. These materials were removed prior to 2012 and we do not know where they are. Please do not undo my edits - we keep getting requests for this material that is not available. MountainDogTime (talk) 15:52, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

This must be about Settlement school. You have removed some references, presumably because the links no longer work. That is not an adequate reason for removing them. It would be better to fix the links, perhaps by providing an alternative source such as the Wayback Machine. Maproom (talk) 18:57, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

So, MountainDogTime, these are photograph albums that are no longer in the University's library collection? I wonder whether the Description from the old catalog record can qualify as a source in itself?

As a convenience to other readers, here's an example of what one of the ref's pointed to. Another is only archived as a 404 page.

I would hope, as a librarian or library manager, that you would value preserving information. Your last edit appears to have removed some content in addition to the ref's.

Would it be acceptable to retain the citations but include a note that the materials went missing in 2012 and their current location is unknown? That could be sufficient to reduce the quantity of enquiries that you're receiving.

I suggest taking this discussion to Talk:Settlement school, so that it will be available to readers of the article.

Regards, Pelagic (talk) 18:55, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

MountainDogTime, I'm afraid that even dead references need to be kept. Even a dead reference establishes that such material did exist at point. Even if your organization no longer has that info, it still exists (or did exist) somewhere. The references should be tagged, perhaps using Template:Dead link. That way the sources can be updated if possible. Even better would be to find copies of the material and update the citations. But they cannot just be removed for being dead, as they still support information. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 18:59, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Citing lectures, seminars

Hi dear reader!

I am currently working on my first Wikipedia article Draft:Text World Theory, which was declined because it needed more exact references. I want to cite my sources as accurately as possible, so most of my article relies on reliable, peer-reviewed articles and books. To be frank however, I also relied on the content of lectures and seminars that I followed as a student. Sometimes, I found the explanation of a professor to be very useful, so part of what I have written, draws from this. I personally know that their information is reliable as I find it to agree with the information that I find in additional resources that have been reviewed.

This however, is of course problematic. I cannot cite these additional sources directly for a number of reasons. Firstly, this is not the inital source that I have for the information, so it feels as though I am not being fair with my citations, as well as that the explanation of my professors might be different from the exact writings of other scholars. I also do not know where my professors got their information exactly, because I rely on their authority to learn something, rather than their exact citations (usually, they just state information without citing where they got it from, because they are authorities themselves). As they have been appointed a teaching position within the University, I assume that they are reliable. Secondly, I know that even though something might seem reliable to me, I might be biased or my professors might be wrong. Thusly, I am not sure whether citing a lecture or seminar actually meets the guidelines of Wikipedia, though I would want it to. Thirdly, even if I could cite my classes, they aren't public. This means that they cannot be checked by others that aren't fellow students or teachers of the same institute. This is of course extremely problematic.

I would love to cite my exact sources and provide all the exact details of the lectures or seminars I got the information from. It seems to me that that both improves the quality of the article, as well as that it credits the proper people as well. However, it seems like this format doesn't work for Wikipedia. What should I do? Owndifiction (talk) 15:57, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello and welcome. Lectures given by your professors in the course of your education are not reliable sources. If the lecture was instead a public lecture where reporters came and wrote articles about the lecture, those articles would be usable as secondary sources. Your report of your professor's lecture is not a reliable source because you are not journalist, and would only be publishing it here, which means it is original research. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 16:08, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

-

Hi, Owndifiction! Could you contact your professors and ask them about good sources? They might be pleased by your interest in the topic, and point you to some important works in the field. Or, if you're a current student, they might also tell you to go off and hone your library skills as a "learning exercise". :)

P.S. I just clicked through to your draft, and the references appear to be shaping up. (My background is biology, not linguistics, so discourse theory is a bit over my head.) You can use one of our citation tools – in Visual Editor, there should be a Cite button in the toolbar – to fill out author, title, publisher, date, etc. I'm not sure whether we have something that can pull the metadata for you from a Google books URL, but maybe from an ISBN. Anyway, thanks for coming to Wikipedia and sharing your knowledge of the topic! Pelagic (talk) 19:31, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Pelagic: The cite book tool will usually read bib data from a Google books URL as well as from ISBNs. @Owndifiction: please see MOS:BOLD. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:42, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Too much celebrative bios

Hallo, I am working on a porn actor bio and I bumped into François Sagat bio. I find it way too celebrative (promotional) and also full of insignificant details. Let me give you some examples :

• "He has appeared at times as a fashion model" this is a significant achievement for a porn actor and it should be sourced and also which model agency did he work for?.plus, hard to believe since he is 1.73 m (5 ft 8 in) (may be photo model?, guess star?)
• "Since childhood, Sagat had been fascinated by fashion and passionate about drawing" is this wikipedia or his secret diary where he writes his dream?
• "It became an instant success" I call "celebrative".
• "His film François Sagat's Incubus was released in two parts, with part one released in December 2011 and part two in March 2012. On his blog, Sagat recounted the making of the film in clips he shot on set" isn't it too much information? it is a porn movie not gone with the wind.
• "Sagat released a short 13-second shot in black and white video standing in front of the Disney Magic Kingdom saying: "Hello, I'm Franços Sagat"" wow, and what did he eat that day?
• "he appeared in the role of a male addict" if you don't have a line is it still called a role (this is an english language question)?
• "In a recent interview he explained that his hair began to thin out " often part of his interviews are reported. I counted 3 times so far and I am still at the beginning. and there is an whole paragraph that basically describes each tatoo he has.
• "Public awareness" this all paragraph is entirely not sourced.
• "Sagat keeps an active blog,[24] where he explores his creativity in diverse and intimate ways, showing in addition to promotional materials, his art work, intimate looks into his personal life, video takes on various topics, and personal renditions of favorite lyrics from chosen songs." is this wikipedia or Sagat press agent?
• "In March 2012, he launched a musical project entitled Hadès with Sylvia Gobbel, a muse of the late photographer Helmut Newton. Hadès is directed by French Photographic Heritage-awarded Franck Glenisson with symphonic music arranged by Hedayat. The project incorporates a song, a film and 16 erotic photographs of Gobbel and Sagat. The music video debuted in March 2011. Since 2013, Sagat announced his own on-line clothing brand of streetwear, sportswear, underwear and accessories named KICKSAGAT in association with workpartner PH. Sagat did all the designing." it sounds like he is dropping names weakly related to him. no sources. i read something about it and I remember his involvement was having one of his picture displayed (i can check and source it).
• "When in Brazil, Sagat told of his desire to be in a serious relationship. Asked if he had relationships with someone from work, Sagat said "No. I had an actor in Paris that I really liked and so. But the fact that we had already worked together broke the magic." again? do we report also what a porn actor said?
• "When acting in films, the actor said that he prefers to be top, it feels more comfortable that way. In personal life he enjoys both top and bottom, saying that he is obsessed with asses".

plus there are way too many pictures making the bio appear to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia

he is definitely wikipedia materia but more than half of the page should be deleted and some sources added. is it something I should do my self or should I discuss somewhere before? what is the best thing to do?

Plus I didn't go through the sources yet. But this is my point of view: if you are a porn actor and you say you did a show in a disco sourcing is not important, but if you say you had a role in an important movie the source must be very good.

thank you --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 18:59, 15 April 2020 (UTC) AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 18:59, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, Howdy hello and welcome to the Teahouse! My advice to you: WP:SOFIXIT. You have identified valid concerns, so go ahead and remedy them! Thats the spirit of Wikipedia -- you don't generally need to ask permission to fix something, you can go ahead and do it yourself. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 19:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek my main concern is that I will have to delete more than half of the bio. I know it can be rolled back but I don't want to upset anybody --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 19:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, Well perhaps not delete everything, but copyedit. And delete if necessary. Just because content exists in an article doesn't mean its good or should stay. Fluff should be cut down when found. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 19:11, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek hallo, i have an english language problem. Sagat appeared in saw vi for about 2 seconds and didn't have a line, he was in a room with among people waiting for something. ow would you call that? an extra? would you say he did an appearance? at the moment it says "appeared in the role of a male addict in Saw VI." doesn't it sounds way more than 2-3 seconds on the screen? is even worthy mentioning? i searched for sources to see if it was somehow significant or recognized and apart from him saying that he had a "role" in the movie I couldn't find anything --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 20:15, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, I would call that a "cameo". CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:17, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek a Cameo isn't it when a celebrity makes a small part but is recognizable in that part and recognized in the titles for that part? --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 21:22, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, You could say that he made an uncredited cameo as an extra? CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek the problem here is that to him it was something huge, and I understand it, but as a metter of fact is not even worthy of mention. it is repeted 3 times. one at the beginning, once when he tells of his career as a non pornographic actor and once when he gives the list of the non pornographic movie he did. I am not sure how to act.--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 21:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, Since it is unsourced, I would remove it all together unless a source could be found. And even then, I would mention it only once. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:49, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek do we need a source? its a movie and I watched it, i know he is in there... for a split of a second... --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 21:51, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, Everything needs a source. If no source took it upon themselves to note that he's in there, then clearly nobody thought it was important, and thus not important enough for us to talk about. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:53, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek I will give a and delete 2 out of tree mentions. what do you think?--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 22:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, Sounds like it will work. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 22:39, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek I am going through Gay pornographic film actors and almost all of them are a mess, with very bad sourcing. I believe they were accepted years ago when notability and bios were intended very differently from what they are now. I strongly believe that most of them are worthy to be considered for deletion. how do you feel about it? --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 22:52, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, Eh I'd say it would probably survive a deletion nomination. If you search for more sources and think that there isn't enough (i.e. do a WP:BEFORE check) you could put it up for deletion. But I think the HuffPost article, coverage in industry magazines, plus the various awards, is probably sufficient for notability. Certainly needs a lot of cleanup though, thanks for taking that on. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 23:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

CaptainEek no, I didn't mean he should be nominated for deletion. I know he is one of the most famous gay porn actor I meant to nominate basically the 50% of the gay porn actors bios--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 23:08, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

AlejandroLeloirRey, Yeah there are a lot of porn actors that need deleting. Before you nominate a bunch for deletion, make sure you solidly understand the deletion criteria. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 23:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

With CaptainEek on this - lot of porn actor articles that warrant deletion, and for that matter actors. And musicians. And bands. And authors of books. David notMD (talk) 00:56, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

New editor

FYI

 – Heading created by Tenryuu.

Hi! I am new to Wikipedia so I would like to ask a question about editing. Where could I find a button that leads me to an article that needs editing. Thanks.Respectfully, OPEDITS (talk) 19:26, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@OPEDITS: Thank you for your interest in improving Wikipedia. The community portal has some articles sorted by what needs to be done on them in the "Help out" section. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:45, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Use of bold for contributing properties in NRHP article

I am performing a GA review of Downtown Ossining Historic District and have a question about use of bold for contributing properties in this section of a NRHP article: Downtown Ossining Historic District § Significant contributing properties.

From MOS:BOLD, it does not appear as if the titles of contributing properties should be bolded, but perhaps it is ok because they are subsets of the historic district (i.e., fall under criteria for the article title).

Is it okay to use boldface in this instance? If not, is there another appropriate method to call out the article titles (emphasis mentioned in MOS:BOLD doesn't seem right for this instance)?

Your input is very much appreciated! –CaroleHenson (talk) 20:05, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, CaroleHenson. That's a very interesting question. Personally, I'm OK with seeing the use of bold in just the section at Downtown_Ossining_Historic_District#Significant_contributing_properties . That said, I don't think the use of bold here conforms to our Manual of Style. I would expect bold to be used only if the items were synonyms, but here they are just tiny subsets of the whole, so I wouldn't interpret bold as being ok. I'd suggest that the bullet points on their own serve as suitable seperators, and that emboldening should go. See National Register of Historic Places listings in northern Westchester County, New York for a vaguely equivalent article that doesn't use bold. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:51, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Excellent feedback, thanks Nick Moyes.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:55, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@CaroleHenson: You might also get more feedback at WT:MOS. See if it's been discussed there previously, too (there's a search box). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:50, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, AlanM1, I will check it out.–CaroleHenson (talk) 12:31, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Ready to create an article on the topic "Jalen McMillan"

I recently came across a music playlist from 'Jalen McMillan' but I realised Wikipedia has no article on him even tho his news sources prove his notability. In an attempt to add his details to Wikipedia, I noticed his page is currently protected so that only administrators can create it. I will like to urge any administrator here to add a stub of which I am ready to develop it into a full article. Kindly refer to https://www.fabworldtoday.com/a-sure-fire-superstar-jalen-mcmillan-rapper-bio-music-networth/ or https://www.google.com/search?q=Jalen+McMillan+Musician&safe=active&hl=en-NG&sxsrf=ALeKk018NIvhNzv4R1scZCAL1wKnqOC_gA:1586981828697&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ9qeBoOvoAhVgTRUIHUkeBgkQ_AUoAnoECBgQBA&biw=1366&bih=663 Geezygee (talk) 20:30, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Geezygee, Taking a look at those sources, I'm not sure if they prove notability. The Fabworld source doesn't seem reliable, its one of those clickbaity "stars net worth" type deals. The list of google news articles has just a few press release/blogs, and then results about a football player of the same name. You'll need to find some more solid sources if you think he deserves an article. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:21, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓, in my search, I came across this articles too:

• https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10791105/
• https://www.huffingpost.ga/l-as-hottest-rapper-jalen-mcmillan-drops-new-music-video-for-azz-back/
• https://www.dailymusicroll.com/entertainment/music-entertainment/rap-music/worldwide-music-sensation-jalen-mcmillan-rapper-top-10-songs.html
• http://www.ustimesnow.com/whats-so-special-about-jalen-mcmillan-musician/
• https://platinumindies.com/2019/12/08/new-music-jalen-mcmillan-cash-talk/
• https://instagram.com/girlsloveJalenMcMillan
• https://facebook.com/JalenMcMillan

Geezygee, IMDb is not a reliable source. The huffingpost.ga is a sneaky trap: its meant to look like its from the Huffington Post, but it is in fact just a site to put promo material on. Very cheeky. Daily music roll is also native advertising, meant to look legit but is in fact just a promo website. Same for Ustimesnow. Platinum indies is a wordpress blog. His insta and facebook are not reliable sources. So, alas, none of those sources are suffucient. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓, thanks Geezygee (talk) 21:52, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Again CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓, seen similar issue with this Ghanaian award-winning rapper 'Flowking Stone' . Kindly see this https://www.google.com/search?q=flowking+stone&safe=active&rlz=1C1CHWL_enGH822GH822&sxsrf=ALeKk00093Qo3tCpVof5E-PMN7lyYugICQ:1586987649212&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi7huDYtevoAhUitnEKHWI0C6AQ_AUoA3oECBUQBQ&biw=1366&bih=663 Geezygee (talk) 21:56, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Geezygee, He could be notable, but its marginal at best. With any of these types of folks, it takes a solid understanding of notability policy and the reliability of sources to figure out who should get an article. Creating an article from scratch is one of the hardest things to do on Wikipedia.CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 22:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@Geezygee: If you feel that the subject is notable, then go to WP:YFA and there are instructions and a wizard there to help you create a draft for review. RudolfRed (talk) 00:45, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

My Picture Attached To Someone Else's Wikipedia Bio

Hi there - I just googled my own name, and a photo of me came up attached to an dead Australian footballer's wikipedia link. The photo does not show on the demised footballer's actual wikipedia page, but on the search results in Google.. Can anyone suggest how that can be amended so these are not connected? Thanks for reading! 64.46.3.4 (talk) 20:48, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

You will need to contact Google. Their Knowledge Graph pulls data from a variety of sources in an often confusing way. RudolfRed (talk) 21:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

To add to the above: the easiest way of correcting such a mistake is by clicking on the grey "Feedback" link on the bottom right of the Google Knowledge Graph. --MrClog (talk) 21:44, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Appropriate template

A recent pair of edits removed all content from a 2011/2012 stub. I wonder if there is an appropriate template simular to {{BLP sources}} that would be appropriate. See Bioscience Resource Project. Seems {{stub}} is too little. —¿philoserf? (talk) 21:55, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean that you think it should be Start? Or that it is so short it is a Stubbed Stub?? And yes, a 90% reduction in length of a ten year old article is impressive. David notMD (talk) 22:26, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

David notMD, Oh. It is a stub. I was hoping there was a template like {{citations needed}} to encourage some editorial reader to expand the thing. —¿philoserf? (talk) 22:30, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Averaging fewer than ten visits per day and no watchers, so I think it stays a stub regardless of how tagged. David notMD (talk) 00:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I made a mess and I don't know how to reverse it

Resolved

 – Teahouse was categorised under Category:Gay pornographic film actors; colon added to fix issue. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gay_pornographic_film_actors

I was working on François Sagat bio and I also did some work on other gay porn actors bio and I must have done something wrong (UNWILLINGLY) now the Teahouse link appears under the letter G, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gay_pornographic_film_actors could please someone help me to fix it? thank you--AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 23:12, 15 April 2020 (UTC) AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 23:12, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@AlejandroLeloirRey: I fixed it. Someone had put [[Category:Gay_pornographic_film_actors]] in a previous question. Should be [[:Category:Gay_pornographic_film_actors]] to not add it to the category. RudolfRed (talk) 23:30, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

@RudolfRed: thank you --AlejandroLeloirRey (talk) 23:47, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia 20th Anniversary

What are you going to do on Wikipedia's 20th anniversary next year? SpinnerLaserz (talk) 03:08, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I haven't heard of any plans yet. Presumably they will yust show a banner and create a page named Wikipedia:20th anniversary. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 05:19, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, SpinnerLaserz. I will not begin thinking about that until the coronavirus pandemic is under control. Maybe I might buy a cake with the puzzle globe logo on it, if I am not bankrupt at that time. I like cake. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:25, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Arts and Culture in [city name] & Companies

Hi all - I am a new contributor and have two questions that I'm hoping to get clarity on as I want to continue contributing to Wikipedia.

1. As an example, the Arts and Culture section in the Calgary Wikipedia page seems like a bit of a mess that could use some organization based on it being a wall of text covering many different types of art, arts venues, etc. However, I was thinking that an 'Arts and Culture in Calgary' page may be warranted and just want to know if that is within the spirit of Wikipedia?

2. Many cities have arts companies but am wondering in the context of arts companies, such as a dance company, what the level of notability is there? For example, to satisfy secondary sources, would a newspaper review of a performance, an interview with an artistic director, and a member of the company's published book or article suffice 'notability'? Alenmartel (talk) 04:33, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello and welcome. In terms of question two, companies and organizations need to satisfy the WP:NCORP guideline. As is true of most subjects on Wikipedia, there needs to be independent media/newspaper/book etc coverage in reliable sources. The coverage needs also to be sufficiently in-depth so that one can extract the gist of things without much work. The interview you mention would not typically count towards notability, as it is not independent of the subject. Four or five RS reviews or articles on the dance company might do it, and especially if the articles covered the history of the company and could be used to verify the basic like when it was founded. See also WP:CREATIVE, which covers creative professionals. Finally, if you are connected to the organization in any way then writing about them is discouraged per WP:COI. Thanks. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:43, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

is it OK to remove hyperlinks in introductory section of Dora Altbir

i want to remove hyperlinks: CEDENNA & DICYT. should i just remove them ? Leela52452 (talk) 04:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC) any OTHER suggestion or critique is preferred here

Yes, you should remove those as we do not allow external links in the body of the article! If they look like a valid source, you can remove them and renisert them after the phrase inside ref tags! ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Interested in expert opinion regarding an article that might be eligible for deletion

I would appreciate an expert opinion to evaluate if this article is an advertorial with no encyclopedic significance. Pratat (talk) 08:09, 16 April 2020 (UTC) Pratat (talk) 08:09, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Vienna Test System has multiple tags identifying weaknesses, including sections without references. Also, it appears it wants to be about the test system AND the company. I have no keep-don't keep opinion. Needs a look at by psychologists familiar with testing. David notMD (talk) 11:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi David notMD and thank you for responding. What I am wary of is that the test system is not a patented method or similar, but rather a very specific system (which used to be hardware+software and now is software only), and therefore the whole article is adveratorial in nature. Would appreciate if you could give it a second look. Not to mention that even when I tried removing a few peacock words, my edit was rolled back..Pratat (talk) 13:03, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Deleted stuff. I think your edit was reverted not because of your change to the text, but to the tags. Anyway, I trimmed stuff from the lead, too. David notMD (talk) 13:50, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I wish to make a minor grammatical correction to the semi-protected article about Tedros Abhanom

Tedros Adhanom

The text in question is

In a profile published in April 2010, The Lancet reported that Tedros was "a household name at the Global Fund Secretariat" before his election as Board Chair where his leadership was regularly cited at the Global Fund that resulted in Ethiopia to be named as an exemplary high-performing country.

The words "to be" are incorrect in that sentence. I want to replace them with the word "being:. AldisOzols (talk) 11:16, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

AldisOzols,  Done ~~ Alex Noble/1-2/TRB 11:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Help with getting a draft submitted

Hello - I'm working on a page for the company I work for and I'm struggling to get it submitted. I'm not providing enough significant coverage on the subject or secondary sources, but I've added as many links as I can fathom and I'm at a loss at what to do next. The article is still in its Draft format here: Draft:SixStarCruises Please could someone point me in the right direction? Many thanks, Emma. Emma.smithWTH (talk) 13:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

The "references" are in-name-only mentions, interviews, reworks of press releases... Not clear if any of those are at length content about the company (and was there a name change? As awards going to different name?). Given declined four times by three different reviewers, my opinion is lost cause. David notMD (talk) 14:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Have you read WP:COMPANY? Your draft has been declined four times and each time its been declined for exactly the same reason. REDMAN 2019 (talk) 14:17, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Thank you both - The company is a subsidiary, which might cause confusion where mentioned in the referenced articles. I'll take a look at WP:COMPANY and see where I get to.

nigeria, lagos

"Subject/headline".--> what is the relation between portugal and lagos in nigeria? 86.17.177.94 (talk) 14:06, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi anonymous user, and welcome to the Teahouse. People searching the term Lagos may be looking for Lagos, Nigeria or Lagos, Portugal, so it's helpful to redirect them to the place in Portugal, if that's what they're looking for. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I suspect the OP may be asking why the Nigerian city has the same name as the Portugese city. The answer to that is given in the articles Lagos, Nigeria and History of Lagos – although the Nigerian location had at least one indigenous name (Eko), it was named "Lagos" by Portugese explorers and immigrants, perhaps partly after the Portugese city but largely because the word in Portugese means both "lakes" and "lagoon", both of which are descriptive of the local geography. {The poster formerly knnown as 87.81.230.195} 90.203.117.240 (talk) 14:49, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

How to make columns functions of other columns in tables

I am trying to put in cases per capita data on the articles for the Virginia and Maryland Covid outbreak articles. I added a population column, and I made a cases per capita column in excel and imported it, but I want to know how to make that function within the table on the site so that when the cases column gets updated the cases per capita gets updated to. How do I do that? Isaaclagrand (talk) 15:32, 16 April 2020 (UTC)