Talk:Family of Donald Trump

Duplicate contents with Ancestry of Donald Trump

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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What's the point of having Ancestry of Donald Trump and Family of Donald Trump with the identical content? These two articles should be merged into Family of Donald Trump. --Tataral (talk) 23:39, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose merger This article is about the upcoming First Family, not Trump's ancestry. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 23:43, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Um, the article has the identical content as Ancestry of Donald Trump and includes a huge genealogical table and is mostly about his ancestry, so that claim is clearly wrong. Also, the title by no means implies that it isn't about his ancestry, clearly "Family of Donald Trump" includes his ancestry, and everything family-related that is centered on Donald Trump (as opposed to Trump family, which is not centered on Donald Trump). An article only about Donald Trump and his wife and children seems quite unnecessary when we already have all these other articles and individual biographies on all of them. --Tataral (talk) 23:58, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
    • I recommend the duplicate information be removed and this article be moved to Trump family after the merger is complete in line with Bush family, Obama family etc. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 00:02, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
      • No, that's a ridiculous suggestion. The Trump family article already exists as an article on a completely separate topic which isn't about Trump's ancestry and which is much broader in scope than just Donald Trump and his wife/children, and obviously people who are in the family of Donald Trump, but who are not members/descendants of the Trump family itself (including his ancestors who are unrelated to the Trump family), have no place in an article on the Trump family. --Tataral (talk) 00:05, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose merger This is about the 45th First Family, just like Family of Barack Obama. Notice how it also includes genealogical tables and information on all the extended family members. The Trump family article is about the historical Trump family from Germany, that eventually lead to Donald Trump's current family. User1937 (talk) 00:09, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
  • It is not clear from your comment if/why you oppose merging Ancestry of Donald Trump into this article (effectively redirecting it to this article), while retaining Family of Donald Trump as a separate article in the form it was created by you, with both genealogical tables and information about Donald's immediate family (which are both well covered by the title "Family of Donald Trump"). --Tataral (talk) 00:12, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
    • No, I want Ancestry of Donald Trump to be merged into Trump family, which it pretty much already is. For Donald Trump's immediate family, you have Family of Donald Trump. That's all. User1937 (talk) 00:45, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
      • You have yourself created this article as a duplicate of Ancestry of Donald Trump with a large genealogical table and with most of the content devoted to Trump's ancestry. What you are saying now does not actually seem consistent with the article you created, and it is not clear why you would not want to retain this article in its present state, as you wrote it, and redirect the article where the content was originally located here. The Trump family article is only about Donald Trump's ancestors to the extent that they belonged to the Trump family. His other ancestors, from Scotland, are not part of the Trump family and have no place in an article about a family from Kallstadt. The article also covers family members who are not Trump's ancestors at all, but in some cases very distant relatives. --Tataral (talk) 03:33, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
        • You know what, you totally have a point. We should probably stick to the immediate family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User1937 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
• We don't need three articles about the Trump family. I suggest keeping this one focused on Donald Trump's family, perhaps merging some non-overlapping bits from Ancestry of Donald Trump into an "Ancestry" section, and keeping the wider-ranging Trump family as is. Then Ancestry of Donald Trump should redirect to the "Ancestry" section here. The Ancestry section would have a hatnote pointing to Trump family for further information. How does that sound? — JFG ^talk 17:08, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

That makes sense to me. I restored the merge proposal yesterday of Ancestry of Donald Trump and Trump family and posted "support" for the merge, but your proposal, and User:Tataral's diligent edits and subsequent case for having a separate Trump family article, have convinced me. I'll cc this message over at Talk:Trump family. Wikishovel (talk) 21:22, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that is a solution that I support as well. --Tataral (talk) 23:15, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

• Support per nomination and discussion above, and at this point the merge is already nearly complete. @User1937 and Champion: do I understand correctly that you support the merge of Ancestry of Donald Trump to this article? I'd like to close the proposal if we've arrived at a consensus. Thanks, Wikishovel (talk) 14:50, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Seeing that all contents of Ancestry of Donald Trump have been merged into Family of Donald Trump#Ancestry and properly structured there, I have now redirected the page. — JFG ^talk 04:07, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Coat of arms

This coat of arms is said to be the logo of a Scottish golf resort. A spokeswoman for Trump has said that it "will officially represent the Scottish brand", "The coat of arms brings together visual elements that signify different aspects of the Trump family heritage and importance of this project [the golf resort in Scotland]" and "We own a portfolio of outstanding golf courses and Trump International Golf Links, Scotland- a championship links course in the home of golf- is set to be the jewel in the crown".[1] I'm not convinced this is intended as a coat of arms of the Trump family as such (in which case it would be more natural to adopt a German-style coat of arms and in which case British heraldic authorities would have no say in the matter) or even of Trump himself; it seems more like a logo used by one of his business enterprises. --Tataral (talk) 03:25, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Well, it was used as part of the logo, but it's a real coat of arms. Donald Trump has officially registered the coat-of-arms, and four years later was granted the right to use it. But it's not necessarily a Scottish coat, as he used the same crest in Ireland, putting Ireland on the bottom. He simply uses the crest all over the world in different logos, but that doesn't make the crest itself a logo. In Scotland, when you get a coat of arms approved, it means that crest officially stands for your family, in this case the Trump family. So yeah, it might seem a bit weird, but it's real and should stay. User1937 (talk) 13:00, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

The article cited above, and other articles, seem to imply that Trump simply registered this in Scotland to be able to use it as a logo of his golf resorts there (it was "unveiled [as] the official coat of arms for the Trump International Golf Links Scotland", a golf resort company). Also, I've seen him use somewhat different coats of arms/logos elsewhere (that are different coats of arms from the heraldic perspective), so there is a clear indication that this is meant more by Trump (or really his company) as a business logo (for some of his businesses, not all of them), than a coat of arms for his family. In any event, the Trump family is German and it wouldn't be the coat of arms of anyone else than Donald Trump and his descendants, not of the entire Trump family, and it would be far more logical to assume a German-style coat of arms if you were to adopt a "Trump family coat of arms" (while British authorities insist that one cannot assume a coat of arms but have to pay an exorbitant fee to them to be "granted" it, this is not the case elsewhere, and in the world of heraldry, the British position is considered unreasonable and applying only to Britain).

Unless there is clear evidence that this is intended as a personal coat of arms to be used by him personally, as opposed to just a logo for some of his businesses, I question the prominence of it by having it in the infobox on his immediate family. It doesn't matter how Scottish authorities treat it, because it's clear the reason for the registration there was only the dispute over whether he could use it as a business logo for his golf resorts. --Tataral (talk) 15:20, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Daily Mail allegations

I rolled back the Daily Mail allegations since the Daily Mail, per the BBC article, has retracted their story. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 00:36, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Barron Trump

Should the allegations that Barron Trump has autism be mentioned? (2A00:23C4:6388:7300:71B9:4388:F053:E131 (talk) 11:44, 26 November 2016 (UTC))

I don't think so. Rumors and speculations regarding the Trump family shouldn't be included in this section. Yoshiman6464 (talk) 04:39, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Rumors about a private figure probably should not be mentioned in an article about his notable family member/members. If mainstream news channels cover it extensively, and the President-elect discusses it with reporters, perhaps affirming it or denying it publically, or tweeting his anger about it, as opposed to ignoring it, then it might be worth mentioning. But Barron is supposedly especially popular in Japan. Perhaps that should be mentioned, and perhaps coverage of problems with the strict security at his school are worth mentioning, since they have quite a bit of news coverage. Edison (talk) 13:41, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Barron has gotten new attention from generation Z with the hashtag savebarrontrump — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carrowm (talk • contribs) 05:12, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

References

MacLeod ancestry

According to the recent issue of l'Express MacLeod is descended from the Stuarts, and Trump is related to James I and also to Phillipe le Bel -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 09:51, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

President Trump is of German origin and has never claimed Scottish ancestry. He purchased a family coat of arms in the United Kingdom about a week after building the largest golf course in Scotland. Let's just say it's a fairly safe bet that he is not related to King James I. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.144.12 (talk) 01:56, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

His mother was Mary Anne MacLeod, and Trump has claimed that he "feels Scottish." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/09/donaldtrump.scotland — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.163.53.136 (talk) 20:12, 23 January 2018‎

Barron Trump also appeared in public at the end of the final GOP debate. Add this!

[no text] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.183.89.221 (talk • contribs) 05:48, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

A reliable source is needed. —ADavidB 16:29, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Is now the time for a "Barron Trump" page to be made?

Not sure, but if ever a time, now would probably be the time. -Paintspot (talk) 17:41, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

I can certainly empathize with his mother's wishes to protect his privacy. At some point, however, the internet is going to have to acknowledge this individual's existence. Having said that, as a parent and having seen the boy on video, I understand Mrs. Trump's concerns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.144.12 (talk) 2:04, 11 January 2018‎

Come on, we do "acknowledge his existence" in several articles. Our decision whether to give him a separate article is not based on his mother's wishes. We make that decision based on the amount of separate, independent coverage he has gotten. We do make extra allowances for minor children, who would have no notability except for their parentage, but there will come a time when he gets so much coverage in his own right that we decide to write an article about him. That time has not yet come. --MelanieN (talk) 04:15, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

The draft at Draft:Barron Trump seems to have had little activity. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:37, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm not advocating another try now for the article's creation, though the draft has had about 90 edits and increased in size by about 1000 characters since its last submission. —ADavidB 06:39, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2017

I suggest mentioning Barron Trump's presence at DJT's inauguration in the Barron Trump section. Matssir (talk) 21:24, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Done. Barron's presence is mentioned, with a source. —ADavidB 22:57, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Frederick and Elizabeth

This seems suspect: "In 1885, ... Friedrich Trump, emigrated from Kallstadt ... to the United States at age 16." And: "Elisabeth ... married Frederick Trump in 1902 and moved to the United States with him." In 1902 Frederick had already been in the US for 17 years, so how could Elisabeth have moved with him at that time? I suspect he went back to Bavaria in 1902 and brought her back to the US but don't have sources to check. Kendall-K1 (talk) 15:41, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

Possible improvement

The "Don Jr., Ivanka, and Eric Trump" and "Tiffany" are very election-focused, could probably better reflect their respective articles. Also, separate sections for the first three might be an improvement. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:53, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

New grandchild

A ninth grandchild was born yesterday so the article needs to be updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.15.14 (talk) 16:29, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2017

Request to aknowlege barron is an austist. 216.15.30.22 (talk) 07:22, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 10:17, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Off-topic business logos and business coat of arms

The topic of this article is the Trump family, not the Trump businesses. I proposed removing the logo and arms sections because they are off topic, not about the family, only about the businesses. Jojalozzo (talk) 22:37, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2018

Change spelling of Trump to Drumpf for Frederich, Christian, and Johannes. 198.163.53.136 (talk) 20:07, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Other spelling variations are included in a reference note at the end of the first sentence in the Ancestry section. See Trump family#History. —ADavidB 04:17, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2018

Ivana and Donald Trump divorced in 1992, not 1991 2404:C800:9003:8:0:0:0:13 (talk) 05:14, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

 Done --B dash (talk) 07:48, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Should the Coat of Arms from the infobox be removed?

The coat of arms in the info box appears to be just for Trump's golf course. I don't think they are "his" coat of arms.

RedRamage (talk) 20:59, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Where is this infobox? Are you on about Template:Donald Trump series? --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 21:06, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

RfC: What should be included in the infobox?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The question is: what should and should not be included in the infobox? The infobox apparently should be a condensed form of all the important information in the article. As there was recently an edit war over whether the extended family members are notable enough to be mentioned in the infobox or not, I decided to open an RfC and ask for the opinions of other users. The ones that are currently listed under that parameter are the president's parents, grandparents and uncle (who are deceased), his former wives (whom Donald Trump obviously is not married to anymore), and his siblings who are not as prominent as his wife and children. Adding their names also makes the infobox look oversized. I would like to see what the other users think about it. Keivan.f^Talk 01:18, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

• I could see a case for removing ex wives, though as they’re mothers to his children they still count as family to my mind. I don’t see prominence as being relevant to whether close family relationships are listed. You don’t get much closer than a brother. The nature of the relationships being explained in the box is what makes it clumsy. Those should prob be removed as per the similar box in the Clinton Family.Heliotom (talk) 10:19, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

• I'm generally with Heliotom - leave them in (including the ex-wives), but delete the descriptors in parentheses. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 16:42, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
• Keep everybody, except Robert Trump who doesn't have an article. Remove all parenthetical descriptions. — JFG ^talk 10:51, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
• Keep everyone. Infobox size is fine. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 12:44, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

• It is OK - the template guidance does not provide strong guidelines, other uses do not show an established general precedent, and the legal definitions for Immediate family vary somewhat, depending on if you read gov.uk, opm.gov, federalregister.gov 5 CFR 630, law.cornell.edu 29 CFR 780.308, or avco.com Black's Law Dictionary. It would be at least parents, spouse, and children (including stepchildren and foster children). Some definitions would include Uncle, Partner, Grandparents, immediate family of parents, and in-laws. Extended family would include the parents siblings children (First Cousins). Ex-wives being are legally no longer 'family' as the result of divorce, but listing them seems OK. Markbassett (talk) 00:18, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
• Keep Everyone currently included seem relevant enough to the subject of the article to be included in the info box. Comatmebro (talk) 02:13, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
• Remove ex-wives, keep the others – Ivana and Marla may be the mothers of his children, but they are no longer family to Donald Trump... which this article's about. Corky 02:28, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
• Keep - Considering the page encompasses the entire "Family of Donald Trump", it would make sense to include everyone. I see no issue with the infobox being too long. Meatsgains^(talk) 01:45, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Friedrich Trump Family.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:21, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Bavaria or Sweden?

Some sources say Fred Trump immigrated from Sweden while wiki says Bavaria. I understand Fred was born in Kalstadt, Bavaria but what evidence says he emigrated from Bavaria? Eericmatus (talk) 14:08, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Some how the will facts have been altered

Why was the true facts of the story of Donald Trump's grandfather changed i have a downloaded original copy of this will page on the entire trump history and his grandfather never became a citizen he smuck over on a ship stow away at a very young are teenager and then later returned to Germany when the war broke out and later returned to new york and opened a whore house he was a pump and made money bought a building opened a restraunt and again hired whores and served horsemeat sold that off went to Alaska and bought property for the gold strike era and lost his fortune again opened up another brothel and served horsemeat and whores till he died his wife sold that restraunt used all the money to purchase property and built low income apartment buildings and earned more money and she kept doing the same thing her son's helped her by constructing and building more housing some she built nice houses for sale instead of renting and boomed she then became a company called Elizabeth and sons which btw john trump was a lazy type felt he was to good to swing a hammer in spite of his brothers encouraging him to get I to the buisness with them he got into some trouble and they put him into school for building designs amd contracting end he only did 3 years I. College for that he was no physicist or scientist he was a general engineer for buildings not machinery Donald trumptook after his uncle and grandfather and he to was lazy and liked to live off of his family's money rubbing elbows with the rich and working them to buy into some real estate deals he had trumped up and when he went to his uncles and father and brothers they did not want any part of his ideas ot wasway above what they where capable of and it was extremely risky trump did it anyways took faamily money and invested it all he was lucky it worked out and when his grandmother passed away he took control ocer the buisness with his uncle john trumps help and changed the familys buisness name to trump organization and went on to more risky dealings and lost more then he ever made in return his father had to send a bag man with thousands and thousands of dollars to pay off the mob payment on his casino in Las Vegas before they beat him his uncles amd father the entire time contiued to work as always earning money to make up for Donald Trump's losses and bad buisness deals and his uncle John trump who Donald is a lot like stole tesla trunks from his hotel room he died in and took his tech. And played it off as his ideas and NASA and the Navy looked into some of the finished fully functioning work that tesla had completed and fully operational but they didnt know how to work them cold fussion etc... His uncle earned money by selling tesla inventions to NASA he was a fraud and a fake just like donald trump Babymonkey61 (talk) 23:53, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Please abide by information found in reliable sources, not personal opinions. — JFG ^talk 01:42, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

It's not necessarily per se a personal opinion. You should rather have asked for sources for the above text rather than assuming it is a personal opinion. --Maxl (talk) 17:23, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

impersonation

McKay, Rhys (21 September 2019). "Barron Trump Demystified: All Your Questions Answered". New Idea. Is Barron Trump On Twitter? No, Barron isn't on Twitter. There was previously a parody account called @STBPOTUS that was sometimes mistaken to be his real account but wasn't actually run by him. This account has since been suspended.

Should this impersonation be mentioned so people will stop attributing those tweets to him? 64.231.171.210 (talk) 18:26, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Replace picture of Barron

I know that the current image is newer, but it's just a really bad image. Should we replace it with an image that is from the past, but better. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 11:25, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Heres one from 2017

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2020

Change all instances where Barron Trump is refered to as "he" to "they" 98.227.102.78 (talk) 04:06, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

No. Crboyer (talk) 04:10, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2020

Barron trump has been said to prefer they/them pronouns 2001:8003:2C0B:C100:81D3:AB89:6A2:B263 (talk) 04:54, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.Crboyer (talk) 05:14, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

"Arbitration Remedies"

Who added the "arbitration remedies" tag to this article? Apparently the link in the tag does not apply to this article but to another lemma. Anyway, it should have been discussed before doing it which did not happen. --Maxl (talk) 17:27, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Mary MacLeod Trump

According to the 1930 federal census of Manhattan, NY, Mary MacLeod came to the US in 1929 and was working at age 18 as a domestic worker of Louise Carnegie, widow of Andrew Carnegie, whose staff was made up mostly of Scottish domestic workers. According to the naturalization records she became a naturalized citizen in 1942 after marrying Fred Trump and having several children - although the 1940 federal census, in her information, says she was a citizen.174.96.133.89 (talk) 13:16, 15 August 2020 (UTC)<1930 census, 1940 census, federal naturalization records></ref>

Age of Robert Trump: 71 or 72 ?

I noticed some reliable sources are saying he died at 72 and others are saying 71. I don't think we can go by counting them, because some may be relying on the same source, or on this Wikipedia article. Should this article say "71 or 72", with cites for both, or just omit his age?47.139.46.84 (talk) 03:22, 16 August 2020 (UTC)