Talk:Tesla, Inc.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 February 2022 and 5 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nanjingnan123 (article contribs).

Good article reassessment

Tesla, Inc.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review

Result: Closing as no consensus to delist. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:50, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

I reviewed this article back in February 2021 and I now believe that the article is too unstable to remain a GA. There were edit wars in May and March 2023. There was a period of heavy editing back in October 2022 which included countless reverts and changes ([1]). The article recently underwent some significant changes in the space of a couple of weeks and continues to be edited heavily. Since I reviewed the article it has increased in size by over 2 thousand words and in Wikitext size by nearly 50k. Ahsoo1122 11:30, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

As stability doesn't often come up in GAR discussions, I'll ping the coords @WP:GAR coordinators: and ask for their opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:19, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

So, something being unstable (inheritly or not) is not a reason to delist. We need to asertain that the articles new text is suitably far from the criteria for delisting. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:29, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

In that case, I will take a more thorough look at the article this afternoon. A first glance and it seems that the article has changed significantly from the reviewed version, so I find it likely that the article will have moved further from meeting the criteria. Willbb234 11:33, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

I generally agree with Lee's comment above. Instability isn't a reason to delist in and of itself, but it may indicate other issues are present. I just skimmed the article and it appears to be very well cited. I do see an awful lot of one-sentence paragraphs and PROSELINE, but I'm not sure that alone would merit delisting. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 22:18, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Also agree with Lee V.'s assessment. We could introduce some sentence connectives here and there to help with the flow, but the information and the sourcing are relevant and appropriate. QRep2020 (talk) 03:44, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Sources During my source review in the initial review, I think I failed to properly question the reliability of all the references or some potentially unreliable sources have been added in the time since. Here is a list of sources which might not meet reliability requirements:

• Ref 8 [2]. Unsure if Teslarati has an editorial process in place [3].
• Ref 21 [4]. Self-published source. Content in question does not meet WP:SELFPUB.
• Ref 41 [5]. Same reasoning as ref 8.
• Ref 103 [6] is a blog.
• Ref 121 and 207 [7][8] same site as ref 8.
• Ref 149 [9]. What evidence is there that this data is reliable.
• Ref 175 [10] is primary.
• Ref 202 and 350 [11][12] appear to be a blog site.
• Ref 216 [13]. No evidence of an editorial process.
• Ref 307 [14]. Unable to access, but appears to be a blog site. Url now directs to a Turkish gsmbling site.
• Ref 328 [15]. No evidence of an editorial process.
• Ref 359 [16]. Deadlink. Unsure of reliability of the site.
• Refs 395, 397 and 399 are primary.
• Ref 403 [17] likely a blog.
• Ref 431 [18]. Blog.
• Ref 440 [19]. Foreign language. Can't verify reliability.
• Ref 442 [20] is a social media site.
• Numerous sources have an editorial team, but no other indication of reliability: Green Car Reports, Road and Track, Green Car Congress, Tech Briefs, Tesla North, Mining.com, Torque News, Transport Evolved, CSO, Daily Kanban, ZDNet, The Drive (used lots of times).
• Lots of reliance on the source Elecrek, which is at the least a questionable source [21]. A single author, Fred Lambert, has written 29 of the sources in use in this article. This needs to be discussed at the very least. Nom defended this in the review [22], but I'm not so convinced. It appears it's come up in other talk page discussions as well.
• Lots of references missing authorship and there is inconsistent wikilinking and formatting throughout the references.

Stopped at ref 450 because this was taking too long. I think the problem here is that a significant proportion of the article is based on sources which we don't know are reliable and need to be discussed on a case-by-case basis which could potentially take some time. Of course there's some blatant issues here like this source which looks a lot like TikTok. Of course, this can be removed in a few seconds but if there's more issues like this that have fallen through the cracks, then the article surely can't be up to GA standards.

Prose

• The vehicle models section has been trimmed quite significantly from the reviewed version. I question whether this takes away from WP:GACR point 3 as it reduces the breadth of coverage, especially when the vehicle models should be covered in reasonable depth and breadth.
• WP:PROSELINE is an issue and the lead seems fragmented. Other formatting issues need addressing to improve readability.

Stability

• I understand the point about stability not being a reason to delist simply because the article is unstable. However, it is safe to assume that the article will continue to be unstable given previous editing pattern and thus it is difficult to predict whether the article will continue to meet the GA criteria in the future. If social media sites continue to be used as sources and not removed, then I highly doubt that the article can remain of GA status.

I'm happy to discuss this further and look for more evidence. The issue with an article of this length is there is so much content to try and work through, as I found in my initial review. Willbb234 12:12, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

At 11663 words, 74902 characters, the article is past the point at which trimming and/or splitting off content would be clearly reasonable, per WP:SIZE. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:44, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Any thoughts on the above, @Lee Vilenski and QRep2020:? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 08:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

We could trim here and there, of course, but nothing that warrants a reassessment. The company receives near constant attention in the media and invites controversy at every turn, naturally its article will be long. QRep2020 (talk) 13:57, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I believe the main issue raised above was the quality of the sourcing, QRep2020. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I have complained about the article's overreliance on Electrek in the past, but the website has grown less partial to Tesla and Musk in recent years. The primary, tesla.com-based sources are minimal and the cited industry news sites seem reliable enough to me. QRep2020 (talk) 21:00, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll ask @WP:GAR coordinators: to close this. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:38, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm having trouble closing this on consensus, so I thought I'd add my thoughts. The issues raised in this discussion were stability, writing and layout, sourcing, and overall size. While each may or may not (as has been mentioned) be enough of an issue on their own, they are not alone which suggests a higher level of work would bee needed. In addition to the sourcing, at least some of which seems to have been improved, the aforementioned WP:PROSELINE issues remain significant throughout the article (relatedly, the table of contents is over two screens long!). I would assess this as quite far from the GACR, and agree with a delist. CMD (talk) 13:27, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

I'd also point out that while Electrek has not been directly reviewed, it's parent company 9to5 has been given a 100% score by NewsGuard for adhering to all of that organization's to standards of credibility and transparency. I'd say its up to the level of many trade publications at this point. Because of it's focus on one industry, it can come across as somewhat partial to that industry, but I have seen skepticism in recent years, especially of Musk's statements. But we use trade publications because they have a level of intimacy with an industry to be able to offer in depth and frequent coverage. As to the PROSELINE issues, it's valid, but I think it's unavoidable with a company with Tesla's stature. Inexperienced editors will always come in and add the latest factoid to the history section. It's incumbent on more experienced editors to come in every so often and convert the proseline into actual prose. I don't see these issues as disqualifying for GA status. -- RickyCourtney (talk) 22:17, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2023

"Elon Musk took an active role within the company and oversaw Roadster product design at a detailed level, but was not deeply involved in day-to-day business operations.[20]"

The citation leads here:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-07-30/power-play-tesla-book-review

with archive here: https://web.archive.org/web/20210802080819/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2021-07-30/power-play-tesla-book-review

No text in either version of this article supports either assertion in the quoted text. Neither Musk's involvement in the Roadster nor his non-involvement in the day-to-day business operations of Tesla are even discussed in the article. It *may* be the case that the contents of the book this article is very roughly summarizing contain this information, but there is no support whatsoever for the quoted statement in its purported citation. If book offers support for either or both assertions, then the book should be cited so that it can be examined.

There is similar text in the "History of Tesla" page, and it cites a difference source, a now dead link on Tesla's own page. There is no provided archive.

Finally, the text itself, even if it were supported by the citation, literally does not cohere. The early years of Tesla were entirely about designing, developing and pre-selling the Roadster. They didn't do any other things. It is physically impossible for Musk to have been intimately involved in the design of the Roadster but not involved in the "day to day" business operations of Tesla at that time. There were no other business operations at that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.49.229.55 (talk) 09:20, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Done. QRep2020 (talk) 20:52, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Investigators discover hazardous waste violations at more than 100 facilities

I'm not sure how to include this, please do add it in wherever you think is best

• https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/3/24058476/tesla-hazardous-waste-suit-settlement-california

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 02:10, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Done. QRep2020 (talk) 18:32, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Canceled black-owned business order

Tesla canceled an order they placed at a black-owned business when they requested 4,000 small pies from The Giving Pies. This is notable because Tesla has had allegations of discrimination against black employees and this is a black-owned business during black history month. Because of the pattern of alleged anti-black sentiment at the company, the Giving Pies incident has been covered in SFGate, NBC, Mercury News, The Guardian, People, and dozens of other sources.

This should be added to the “Lawsuits and controversies” section. 172.59.0.165 (talk) 18:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Looks like some middle-management type at Tesla made an order that they weren't authorised to do. That's bad on Tesla but at least Musk has "promised" to make good. Be careful about saying it was a racist thing. The articles you listed only say that it was a black-owned business and do not say that it was a race inspired incident - not ruling it out, we just need a reliable source that explicitly says so. Wait a week or so and see if Musk does make good.  Stepho  talk  21:26, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I've seen no articles stating that race was a consideration. Likely anyone that says it is, is invoking pure speculation. War (talk) 02:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Tesla paid the shop 2,000 USD when the total price was either 6,000 USD or 16,000 USD: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-pays-bakery-tesla-pies-canceled-black-history-order-2024-2 QRep2020 (talk) 06:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

"many controversial statements" at the end of the lead and 'paying back the loan 10 years early'

I added back "nearly 10 years early" a few minutes after QRep removed it - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tesla,_Inc.&diff=prev&oldid=1216267080 Seems like a notable bit of info to me. I also removed "many" from this sentence at the end of the lead: "and Musk's many controversial statements." It seems unnecessary and makes the article sound biased. Tikaboo (talk) 03:11, 31 March 2024 (UTC)