User talk:David Gerard

Wikimedia Foundation

This is a Wikipedia user talk page. If you find this page on any site other than the English Wikipedia, you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated, and that I may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Wikipedia itself. The original page is located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:David_Gerard .

Past talk:
User talk:David Gerard/archive 1 (4 Jan 2004 - 31 Dec 2004)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 2 (1 Jan 2005 - 30 Jun 2005)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 3 (1 Jul 2005 - 31 Dec 2005)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 4 (1 Jan 2006 - 31 Dec 2006)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 5 (1 Jan 2007 - 31 Dec 2007)
User talk:David Gerard/archive 6 (1 Jan 2008 - 31 Mar 2008)

Please put new stuff at the bottom, where I'll see it. m:CheckUser requests (sockpuppet checks, etc) should go to WP:RFCU unless you're letting me know about a particular problem we've been tracking, in which case I look here far more often.

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AWB and Infoboxes

I will thanks.--Kumioko (talk) 16:12, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Can we use images from other language Wikipedias?

For example, there is an image of Christian Quadflieg on the corresponding German Wikipedia article. Is there some way we can used the image that's there? If so, how do we link it? Thanks, EPadmirateur (talk) 01:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

It's under a free licence, so that image could (and should) be transferred to Commons and used here from there. Keep the same name if possible and mark the de: copy as also being on Commons - David Gerard (talk) 07:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Looking for Wikipedians for a User Study

Hello. I am a graduate student in the Department of Computer Science and Engineering at the University of Minnesota. We are conducting research on ways to engage content experts on Wikipedia. Previously, Wikipedia started the Adopt-a-User program to allow new users to get to know seasoned Wikipedia editors. We are interested in learning more about how this type of relationship works. Based on your editing record on Wikipedia, we thought you might be interested in participating. If chosen to participate, you will be compensated for your time. We estimate that most participants will spend an hour (over two weeks on your own time and from your own computer) on the study. To learn more or to sign up contact KATPA at CS dot UMN dot EDU or User:KatherinePanciera/WPMentoring. Thanks. KatherinePanciera (talk) 02:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

No free image

Your edits to add this image placeholder to drivers in the British Touring Car Championship have resulted in problems with the pages. You've added the image not only to the infobox, but below the navigation box at the bottom of the page. See Rick Kerry for an example. Please can you fix these pages, and be more careful when using AWB to make widespread edits in the future. Thanks, AlexJ (talk) 12:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Argh bother. Sorry about that, I'll go in and fix. Thanks for alerting me - David Gerard (talk) 12:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Should be fixed now. That was a regular expression being overenthusiastic. I am in fact writing them more carefully now for precisely this sort of problem - David Gerard (talk) 22:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, looked like it was just picking up on any template named BTCC rather than the BTCC infobox in particular. Seems all fixed now. Not sure how successful the image plea will be, especially for older drivers mind you. AlexJ (talk) 22:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

What sometimes happens is you get an enthusiast who happens to have a collection of old shots, sees the placeholder and thinks "I've got pics, I'll add 'em to the 'pedia!" That's always nice. I have two boxes of photos going back twenty years of Australian indie rock bands that I need to scan and upload, for example (e.g. Image:1989-01-02 Kim Salmon at home 3.jpg) - David Gerard (talk) 09:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey David, there is something wrong with your changes. They are adding the pipe at the end while also adding no space between pipe image and pipe imagesize. --_pete 01:27, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I've been considering that a minor blemish when it happens as it doesn't affect page content, but I've tried (and will try harder) to make it smoother - David Gerard (talk) 07:36, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm extraordinarily confused on Mary Robinette Kowal's Wiki page. The image I uploaded was removed, with something regarding copyright, despite the fact Kowal publicly gave me that image, one she owns the copyright to, specifically for her Wikipedia page. The permission, as well as her telling me which photo to upload, is viewable by anyone on her website. Yet despite everything I told Wikipedia, it was still removed and your tagline is requesting an image on the history page. Please advise, as it smacks of far too much CYA and not enough CS on the administration's part, and you seem knowledgeable. Many thanks.ThorneyDayna (talk) 05:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Images of dead people

David, got a another question about what you are adding. The statement "only free-content images are allowed for depicting living people. Non-free and "fair use" images, e.g. promo photos, CD/DVD covers, posters, screen captures, etc., will be deleted - see WP:NONFREE"
I understand it some what. But what about dead people? Is it ok to add non free pictures of dead people? Curious as to what the answer is. Thanks --_pete 09:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Nonfree images of living people are almost always removed immediately (the exception being noted recluses like J. D. Salinger, and there may be one when it's arguably depicting a historic event rather than the people in it per se, etc., etc., arguments continue for another 100 talk page archive pages). For dead people, nonfree images are usually more tolerated, but (like any fair use) each and every case would need justification on a per-article basis, possible arguments with the querulous at WP:IFD, etc. For now I'm just openly encouraging people to think in terms of images of living people as contributable encyclopedic material, and it seems to be netting a few :-) - David Gerard (talk) 09:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks --_pete 09:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Free image placeholders/opera singers and other classical musicians

Hi. In the past participants in the Opera Project and similar classical music projects have preferred not to have the kind of 'Free image needed' icons that you are currently attaching to pages. Would it be possible to leave them off classical musician pages? Or possible to put them on talk pages? After all they are directed an editors and are not of much interest to readers. What do you think? What would be best? Best wishes. --Kleinzach (talk) 11:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

They are in fact directed at readers, and work to solicit images from readers - the typical case is someone who happens to have a pile of pics and the placeholder lights up a lightbulb above their heads for "Hey, I have a pic of that!" There's no reason living singers the opera project claims would be intrinsically more difficult to get good photos of than any other singers - less reason, in fact, as they tend to work longer. And a living bio without a photo is arguably an article that is not finished, and pretending it is is simply incorrect.

Wikiprojects aren't allowed to tag articles with their interest in project space (ever since the Pokemon project tried putting in an article series box advertising themselves on the article and promptly got slapped down), they can only indicate an interest (rather than "ownership" per se) in talk space - if I'm to avoid these for you, how would you suggest this be quickly determined from the article space text? (e.g. the word "soprano" does not indicate the opera project exclusively or even close to it) Please help me here - David Gerard (talk) 11:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC) I am obviously an idiot this morning. I've set it to skip on the word "opera". Buhhhhh. - David Gerard (talk) 11:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help on this. The main cats for opera singers are :

• Category:Operatic sopranos
• Category:Operatic mezzo-sopranos
• Category:Operatic contraltos
• Category:Operatic countertenors
• Category:Operatic tenors
• Category:Operatic baritones
• Category:Operatic bass-baritones
• Category:Operatic basses

Are these usable? I see you have just done Barbara Bonney and Brigitte Fassbaender - both opera singers, so I'm wondering how you are selecting the pages you are processing. Maybe I can suggest something else? Best. --Kleinzach (talk) 13:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Category:Female singers recursive, in Category:Living people, no images in the article. And now skipping on the word "opera" as well - David Gerard (talk) 13:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I've now got it skipping on the strings "Category:Opera" and "opera-singer-stub" (case-insensitive) - David Gerard (talk) 14:09, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. That seems to be working. --Kleinzach (talk) 14:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Moratorium on free image placeholders/opera singers and other classical musicians?

Hi. Would it be possible to stop all work on these while the debate is on? As you will know there is strong opposition to the use of the graphic on all pages (not just opera singers), see here. Thanks again for your cooperation. Best regards. --Kleinzach (talk) 01:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

What debate are you talking about? Is it specific to classical musicians? I wonder if we should open this up to WP:RFC as it seems to arouse strong reactions from multiple quarters. -Pete (talk) 01:52, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

See the proposal here. It's not specific to classical musicians. The proposal is to suspend use of the placeholder pending a full centralized discussion. --Kleinzach (talk) 01:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. -Pete (talk) 06:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

image request

Hi David, I wanted a link to a discussion of the rollout you are undrtaking. I got my answer in a conflicted edit: Image talk:Replace this image female.svg#Proposal to suspend all further use of this graphic on article pages. Regards, cygnis insignis 07:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi, I am the creator of the article, Justin Masterson. I just wanted to say thanks for adding an image to that article.--RyRy5 ^{Got something to say?} 19:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

HELP! After all the hard work we have tried to do on this article, INCLUDING adding and IMPROVING on the submissions Valorkaend made, he is STILL trying to undo all of our edits OUTRIGHT and insert his original article, poor spelling, grammar, punctuation, formatting and all! He needs to be put on ice from editing! HELP! 98.220.43.195 (talk) 01:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

captions

Can you remove any caption there may be when you supply the placeholder image? Hangovers from older versions lurk in the template waiting to reappear. 86.44.28.245 (talk) 22:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Going forward, I mean. 86.44.28.245 (talk) 22:34, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I've been trying to zap them as I spot them ... - David Gerard (talk) 23:37, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

You missed two. This is an outrage. Oh, okay, great! 86.44.28.245 (talk) 01:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

WP for schools

By the way we are planning a major new revision in May. Meanwhile since you commented on it being a benefit from the project, have a look at the rubbish one of our volunteers has been finding on the years pages: [1] Cheers --BozMo talk 11:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Deletion Review for Image:Giafront.jpg

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Image:Giafront.jpg. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article, speedy-deleted it, or were otherwise interested in the article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Chimeric Glider (talk) 21:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Should be obvious, shouldn't it?

Really good idea? I thought it was obvious? I'm also rather surprised at how discussion has died down (somewhat, I know it's not really me) since I arrived. Does no one like the idea of a trial period, or am I in the wrong time zone? :-) BTW, as someone who is in the UK and in London (I think), could I get your opinion on how the BLP issues with the Ian Blair article were handled. See the page history and the talk page, and my comments here. Carcharoth (talk) 11:27, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how that particular article was resolved. However, I'm thankful we still have editors like Doc glasgow and JzG on the coalface of OTRS, whacking away at dodgy BLPs with the BLP Machete of Encyclopaedic Quality. I don't think it matters for us to have grey and tepid BLPs for now, or indeed a lack of a given bio - we have years, we don't have to be finished tomorrow - David Gerard (talk) 07:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Which is why I favour shorter, bare facts, BLPs, rather than the proposed deletion process. Get people working on the BLP backlog, rather than arguing at BLP-AfD. Carcharoth (talk) 11:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, more mailing list ramblings. You said here that "This is why the lead summary of articles is *vastly* important. It must be a complete standalone short article in itself. By pushing this stylistic rule on en:wp, we can make it a better encyclopedia and more reusable for those without internet connections." I thought this was already stated at WP:LEAD? That says "The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article." I think most competent editors are aware of this, though there are problems with short articles that teeter between being a stub (like Martin Barry) and the slightly longer articles that aren't quite long enough for a substantial lead, such as John Allan Broun. Carcharoth (talk) 01:25, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I see it ignored in a lot of cases - long article with one-sentence intro. I thought it'd be worth emphasising considering it actually worked for our reusability - David Gerard (talk) 07:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I think there is a template somewhere, where you can request an expansion of the lead section. Actually, I don't think, there must be something like that somewhere. Nature and a vacuum and all that. Carcharoth (talk) 11:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Placeholder images - haven't got involved in the debate, but I noticed the placeholder on William Henry Perkin, Jr. - would you or someone be able to generate a list where old pictures (ie. of dead, usually 19th century or early 20th century) are needed, and in particular those where public domain pictures might exist (ie. order them by birth date or something). I have some experience of searching for old pictures like that, and would gladly tackle a task like that. It gets tricky though. For example, see here and here. BTW, how on earth did you distinguish between men and women? Looking for "he" and "she" in the articles? Carcharoth (talk) 11:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

A request for old pictures tag is an excellent idea, probably for talk pages rather than articles (they're not so easily fulfilled by readers). Yes, I looked at every article and picked "he" or "she", which is why you'll see some edits with summary "whoops" where I went back and fixed it :-) That's why I used AWB (where you glance over the wikitext and press the big green "Save" button personally each and every time) rather than get a fully-automatic bot approved. The male/female versions are way nicer than Image:Replace this image1.svg, the genderless version - David Gerard (talk) 11:56, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I look forward to seeing a category or list. :-) I'll quietly avoid the question of a "request for fair use pictures" tag for dead people where existing photos are still in copyright... Maybe that should be handled by a "request for people to write nicely to copyright holders and try and get at least one reasonable quality freely licensed picture" (I'm actually serious about that). Otherwise you get the situation at Wikipedia talk:NFC#Replaceable images of dead people. Compare Image:Gene roddenberry 1976.jpg (free license) and Image:Gene Roddenberry.jpg (non-free). Are we really stuck with the former for the next hundred years or so? Carcharoth (talk) 12:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Category intersects?

Hello. On the enwp mailing list recently you mentioned something about category intersects now being tested seriously. Any chance you can tell me where about so I can sneak a look? Thanks in advance, Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't recall the URL of the test implementation, but there's serious discussion of an implementation suitable for Wikimedia - and specifically, Commons and en:wp - in progress right now on wikitech-l. It's in the foreseeable future! \o/ - David Gerard (talk) 20:59, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks David. I'll notify the CFD regulars as I suppose they'll be rather interested in this. Should make things enormously simpler. Like you say, \o/ ... Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I talk about you

I talk about you at Wikipedia talk:Governance reform#The BLP claim is not true saying "as David likes to say "a hard assed implementation of the other policies" and as he likes to leave out an insistence on treating living people like living people and not like a building or some other subject of an article (which was Daniel's original complaint - people told him they could edit his article anyway they liked so long as it met wikipedia policies and any harm it caused him was none of their concern).". WAS 4.250 (talk) 14:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't leave that out (all the time) - it's so as not to be dicks about it. A lot of our PR problems come from editors being dicks about things. I think the point is that when you're dealing with real, living people, it's all a tricky one - David Gerard (talk) 14:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Your close of the AfD on election controversy articles

Your close deletes all the more specific articles. By my count, the tally on whether to delete those articles was 7 yes (and that's counting the 4 delete-everything comments) and 7 no, except that it would be 6 yes and 8 no on the "vote suppression" article because Protonk wanted that one deleted.

Given such an equal division, I don't see how anyone could maintain that there was a consensus for deletion. Your explanation of your action doesn't assert consensus. Your explanation seems to consist of saying that you would have responded as R. fiend and Sjakkalle did, although they were a distinct minority.

I realize that AfD's often stir up strong emotions, and that the closing admin on a controversial one like this is often criticized, so I don't mean to attack you personally -- but I'm very upset at what seems to be an increasing tendency to discard the consensus standard. I just rechecked to make sure I hadn't missed a policy change. The rule is still as I remembered it: "AFD discussions which fail to reach rough consensus default to 'keep'." (from Wikipedia:Guide to deletion)

I suppose that actually tallying numbers will horrify the voting-is-evil crowd, but here's how I assess whether or not there's a consensus to delete the daughter articles: Delete 7 (PhilSandifer, Bonewah, Kironide, Eusebeus, R. fiend, Sjakkalle, Atyndall93); Keep 6 (JamesMLane, OptimistBen, Klausness, Kevin Baas, RyanFreisling, Avenue); Delete "vote suppression" but Keep all others 1 (Protonk). Therefore, there is no perfect consensus or even rough consensus for deleting any of these articles.

So, from here, I suppose there may be a DRV, and there will almost certainly be ferocious edit wars at the one remaining article, as the extensive information in the others must either be removed from Wikipedia or all crammed into what was supposed to be a readily accessible summary.  :( Maybe I'll have to do another spinoff article, so that we again have a succinct summary, and the whole cycle can begin again. JamesMLane t c 16:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Consensus" means "a result everyone can probably live with", after all. But you are quite correct that not much will stop a really determined bunch of edit warriors - David Gerard (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't share your interpretation of consensus, but, even on your view, sometimes there is no result that everyone can probably live with. The AfD indicates this to be one such case. What would stop the deletionists from further edit warring would be the application of the long-established general rule, that a lack of consensus defaults to keep. JamesMLane t c 17:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree, that definition of consensus seems very odd. I see the current decision as being closer to the Judgement of Solomon, but I suspect here neither side will let go of the baby. -- Avenue (talk) 22:56, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

It seems also that articles have been deleted, redirected but not merged, why?--Pokipsy76 (talk) 16:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The merger would be a huge job with ferocious edit warring every step of the way. The minority of editors who wanted all this material expunged from Wikipedia have now achieved partial success. They will fight against the merger line-by-line. JamesMLane t c 17:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Why can't the removed pages just be cut and pasted in the destination page?--Pokipsy76 (talk) 17:37, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

They could be, and that would certainly be better than losing the information entirely. I'm disinclined to do the work involved in implementing the AfD close because I strongly disagree with the close. If you do it or someone else does it, though, I could put some time in on the task of removing duplication. (Some of the material from the deleted daughter articles is already in the summary article.) If you want to go ahead, just don't be surprised if your merger is promptly reverted by the people who wanted to remove all this information from Wikipedia. JamesMLane t c 19:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, and as someone who clearly has a dog in the fight already, I think David's move is better than deletion (the position I initially advocated) - the information is still all there and readily accessible in the article history. People can now carefully go through, vet it, make sure it passes all of our policies including that it be significant, and add it to the article as needed. The information is not "lost," but is now, effectively, there to be culled and worked through. All of the improvements to the article that were promised during the debate can now take place, but we can avoid having very bad articles on the subject in the mean time. In that regard, it does seem like a win for everyone - those of us concerned with the very poor quality of the existing articles are now mollified that they are not being actively served up. Those who wanted to improve them can do so at their leisure. Phil Sandifer (talk) 19:43, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

If all the information that some people think "passes all our policies" were included in this article, it would be too large to be useful as a summary. That's why half the Wikipedians who responded preferred to have a comparatively succinct summary article, with the details covered in daughter articles. Of course, this isn't a problem from your point of view, because you hold a radically different idea about what information qualifies for retention, which is what drove you to the (improper) venue of AfD in the first place.

You write, "All of the improvements to the article that were promised during the debate can now take place...." Even if we assume that improvements were "promised", you are clearly incorrect if you're implying that this AfD close somehow magically removes some unspecified previous obstacle to improving the articles. The practical problem is the extent of the disagreement about whether a specific portion of this material "passes all our policies". There is no improvement in our coverage of this subject that can be made now that couldn't have been made a month ago. What we've seen instead is enormous time and energy diverted to the AfD, with a good likelihood of further diversion to a DRV. Look at the reverts between Kevin Baas and Bonewah at this history. Bonewah wants to import some material from the "vote suppression" article into this one, enough (in my opinion) to impair its usefulness as a concise summary. Kevin will presumably want to import much more. There's no reason to believe that Kevin will suddenly acquiesce in the excision (or exile to article history) of extensive material that he thinks passes our policies, just because you and Bonewah think it doesn't. The AfD close merely ensures that (1) arguments about voter suppression will be mingled on the same talk page as arguments about exit polls, and (2) whatever the outcome, there will no longer be a concise summary article, even though 9 of the 14 AfD participants wanted to retain a summary article. JamesMLane t c 20:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia isnt going anywhere, why not give the merge process some time to work? If, after a reasonable amount of time has passed, your fears are realized, you can make the case to revert as nothing ever really gets deleted on wiki. All I ask from you is the opportunity to try and make the merge work. Bonewah (talk) 22:27, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not blocking that opportunity. If you start merging stuff into what started out as the summary article, I won't interfere with that process on the grounds that the details belong in daughter articles. On the other hand, it's still my position that the deletion of the daughter articles was against policy (because not supported by a consensus). If your request means you want an assurance that there won't be a DRV, then, sorry, but I won't give that assurance. I'm mulling what to do. JamesMLane t c 22:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Good, all i want is to start the merge, if you want to do a DRV then just leave a note in the discussion section, if you would. Bonewah (talk) 00:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

A minor procedural point: an old AfD note was added to the talk pages of all the redirected articles, but not to Talk:2004 United States election voting controversies. Although that article's nomination was withdrawn partway through the AfD, more than half of that talk page is now taken up with discussions of the AfD and its outcome, so it seems odd not to have such a link back to the AfD. I've added one now. -- Avenue (talk) 10:51, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of magazines of anomalous phenomena

I have nominated List of magazines of anomalous phenomena, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of magazines of anomalous phenomena. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? ScienceApologist (talk) 18:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Red links

Re: this. I find redlink lists by using "what links here" on redlinks... There is also Category:Red list. Not sure how easy it is to find them using Google or the internal search engine. I suspect database queries are a better way of finding redlink lists (ie. pages with large number of redlinks). Any idea who could generate such reports? Of course, redlink lists with only a few redlinks left, or blue links pointing to the wrong pages, would not show up that way. Carcharoth (talk) 12:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Block

Please let me know the reason I was blocked for 1 week. Anthon01 (talk) 03:03, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Placeholders and AWB

Hi David, not sure how closely you've followed the Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Image placeholders discussion, but I have a question for you.

As I've brought up there, it seems it's been amply demonstrated that the placeholders are controversial. This is not to say that the addition of them by any means was a bad idea; I fully respect that you and everyone adding them did so out of a desire to improve the encyclopedia.

However, the AWB rules state that it's not to be used to make controversial edits. So in hindsight, it seems those semi-automated additions were in (unwitting) violation of that rule.

I'd like to use AWB to reverse those semi-automated edits, with an edit summary like: "Undo automated addition of image placeholder. Feel free to add it back if it's appropriate to this article; or, use this alternate system."

The "alternate system" is one that's still being worked out, but in essence it would function the same, using a small bit of text in the infobox instead of an image.

Anyway -- I just wanted to (1) see how this approach would sit with you, and (2) if you like it, ask for your assistance in using AWB for this purpose, as I lack technical knowledge of the tool.

Thanks, -Pete (talk) 16:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like mindlessly literal proceduralist bureaucracy, and quite precisely WP:POINT - that is, going out of your way to invoke something you actually don't want to have happened. At best, it comes across as an excuse - David Gerard (talk) 18:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand your objection, but thanks for taking the time to reply. If you'd like to explain it more, I'm all ears, but as phrased I can't make sense of it. -Pete (talk) 18:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

non free. living person

This edit removed a picture I added. Why? --CyclePat (talk) 20:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

CyclePat, the image you added had been deleted a couple weeks before David's edit (with the edit summary: "I7: Invalid justification given for non-free image." When David added the placeholder, the article was displaying not an image, but a dead link. -Pete (talk) 22:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Video games notable for negative reception (2nd nomination)

Hello, David Gerard. Not to be rude or anything, but I was wondering what you meant by this comment, which leaves me somewhat confused. Thank you. :) Valtoras (talk) 22:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

That, quite simply, that's not what "indiscriminate" means, and as such the nomination itself is of low quality - David Gerard (talk) 23:59, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, so maybe I misworded,and ultimately misinterpreted it. But my biggest argument was that the article itself didn't seem necessary - it didn't appear encyclopedic. Of course I'm wrong, but I had no prior understanding of whatever defends this list. I read WP:LIST and saw nothing that specifies how this is appropriate for a Wikipedia article, though nothing appears to be opposed to it, so I suppose it's acceptable. What really made me nominate this article for deletion was that an article of similar type (Video games that have been considered the greatest ever) was deleted due to being an indiscriminate list. I admit to being unsure of what exactly that meant, but seeing as how that article was indiscriminate and POV, this one must be as well. And even if it's not, then why wouldn't we have just re-written the article (the one that got deleted) from scratch? Valtoras (talk) 00:56, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Erik Moller and the AC

FYI, you may want to weigh in to what will need to be a public discussion. The AC has zero authority over raw content matters, sadly. Lawrence Cohen § t/e 23:18, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

That's a very sweeping assertion you're making there ... that they choose not to in almost all cases does not mean it isn't the case - David Gerard (talk) 00:16, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Replied at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Erik_Moller_protection, so we can get a wide clarification of this. Thanks! Lawrence Cohen § t/e 00:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Steven Fishman

Is there any administrative history (such as a prior deletion) that I should know before creating an article about this guy? I think there's a fair amount that could be said about the fraud case, the libel case, and the Wollersheim case, as well as his history in Scientology (so far as it can be determined). Not just the affidavit. WillOakland (talk) 10:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Not that I know of off the top of my head. Worth floating at WT:SCN as well, obviously - David Gerard (talk) 11:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

For the push on bugzilla, the interwiki list has been updated now which will make it easier with the next update of the Schools Wikipedia. Cheers --BozMo talk 17:50, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Remember your comment about "Ta bu shi da yu" and ?

According to "Tbsdy lives" at User talk:WAS 4.250#lol!!!! "Ta bu shi da yu expresses his amusement and is somewhat interested in buying a shirt. He would like to add that he's interested in the creator's ideas and would like to subscribe to his newsletter." and he would like that message "added to WikiEN-l (if not too late)". WAS 4.250 (talk) 19:29, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Infobox issues

If you're going to make mass changes like this please ensure you don't break the coding. I would appreciate it if you check all pages you've done this to, especially MPs. Thanks. Timeshift (talk) 14:31, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Martin Weinek

Hi, I have translated this voice from the German. could you help me in the grammatical correction please? thank you very muck--Lodewijk Vadacchino (talk) 13:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

just playing politics - a little to the left - a little to the right ...

• (28 September 2005) "Minister of Culture Farouk Hosni, a painter by profession, is no stranger to criticism. Over 20 years in office he has been among the most controversial cabinet ministers, frequently locked in conflict with the NDP and Islamist politicians as well as left-wing oppositional intellectuals. In what was perhaps the fiercest campaign against him to date, last week Hosni was blamed for the disastrous fire that broke out at the Beni Sweif Cultural Palace during a theatrical performance on 5 September -- a tragedy that killed some 48 spectators and injured more. It was in the wake of that incident that he tendered his resignation to President Hosni Mubarak last Wednesday. Three days later, responding to the pleas of some 400 high-profile intellectuals, the president decreed that Hosni should resume his duties. "Despite conceding the ministry's accountability, I had the most to lose in such a disaster," Hosni later declared. "But I realised the charges were directed against me personally, even before investigations began. Feeling I had embarrassed the regime, I decided to bear the political responsibility myself."" - http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/761/profile.htm

• (November 13, 2007) "the Culture Minister said there is a department for Jewish antiquities at the sections of Islamic and Coptic antiquities of the Supreme Council of Antiquities." http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/EgyptOnline/Culture/000001/0203000000000000000873.htm

• and of course all the hot water in got in with his veil comments last year. He's playing politics to protect his friend President Hosni Mubarak. WAS 4.250 (talk) 23:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

AWB Linux update

I was looking at the Wine AWB bug, hoping I could someday run AWB, and wondering if I could interest you in trying the latest 1.0-rc1 and the latest AWB and seeing if anything is better. I'd try myself, but I don't think I could really give any useful backtrace data and contribute to the bug report usefully. It appears it's getting there and it would be great to be able to use. Thanks - Taxman ^Talk 02:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Might do, actually! Thanks for reminding me :-) - David Gerard (talk) 07:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

better placeholder images

shadows of people

[http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2008-May/093766.html Anyone think they can come up with better placeholder images?] Take pictures of shadows of people with interesting backgrounds. shadow of a man's head with a funny hat. of a woman's head with long flowing hair. of a dancer's body shadow. backgrounds: brick wall, beach, grass, side of a truck, etc. use a variety of placeholder images, not just two. WAS 4.250 (talk) 20:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

That's one to think about, yes! - David Gerard (talk) 22:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Logo

Update: User:Thue has created Image:Wikipedia-logo-en thue.png to replace Image:Wiki.png, and the large version without logotype, Image:Wikipedia-logo thue.png to replace Image:Wikipedia-logo.png.

He has laid out some of the details at meta:Errors in the Wikipedia logo.

Contact him for any further information, and let him (and/or the thread at WP:VPR#Wikipedia logo improvement) know if anything else needs to be done. But I think that's everything covered? (Please pass along to whomever relevant. I wasn't sure whether to email you, or the hidden mailinglists, or to leave a note here!) -- Quiddity (talk) 23:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

On a side-note, whilst the relevant people are thinking about the topic, it might be a good idea to plan out the rest of the characters on the hidden-from-sight puzzlepieces (if they're not decided already), so that the 3D Versions and Physical versions can develop further. User:Metaeducation might still be interested and helpful for that. Just a thought. -- Quiddity (talk) 23:14, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science

I have nominated Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Cirt (talk) 03:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Teaching the students

Re this mailing list pot:

• 6) Delete PR fluff when you see it. (this entry is a good example. You could do this page a big favor using only the delete key)
  • "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia where anyone can delete stuff" - what fun!
• 7) When you see articles tagged for Notability, add sources until you can delete the tag. You can usually find enough through Google News.
  • Hmm. Indiscriminate sourcing is not always good.

The other suggestions were very good though. Carcharoth (talk) 01:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Per your request....

Here you are - some short answers to some questions. I'm still not sure this will actually take place though - look at User:FritzpollBot/FAQ. If you can think of any more questions, please give me a shout Fritzpoll (talk) 19:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposal: create millions of improperly sourced article with MICROSOFT spam by bot

While I love the idea of using a bot to create articles on real places with proper sourcing, the test cases created so far by User talk:Fritzpoll have improper sourcing and include a spam link to Microsoft. This is unacceptable. I tried noting it on an example and was reverted, so I am saying so here and at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. What would Microsoft pay for 4 million articles that say

*[http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/mapcenter/map.aspx Search for ______ in the MSN Encarta atlas]

WAS 4.250 (talk) 23:51, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Meetup this sunday

Can I tempt you along to Wikipedia:Meetup/London 10? This Sunday 1p.m.! -- Harry Wood (talk) 00:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser activity

Would you be able to comment at Wikipedia talk:CheckUser#Activity levels of individual Checkusers? Thanks. Carcharoth (talk) 11:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I thought you'd be interested

Seen a lot of on-wiki and off-wiki discussion about this, so I thought you might like to see the result at WP:GEOBOT - it seems we have consensus Fritzpoll (talk) 14:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

*champagne* :-D I think a reasonable level of human review should keep people happy with the results in practice - David Gerard (talk) 15:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Security Check Children

I have nominated Security Check Children, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Security Check Children (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Cirt (talk) 05:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

G'day DG

You may be aware that I've been discussing checkuser with a a few people lately, and that I'm trying at the moment to piece together a few things around the events of november last year. I thought it might be best to come straight to the horses mouth, so to speak, because one of things I'm trying to ascertain relates to this edit. I'm happy to chat privately about this if you'd prefer, and would really value a dialog with you in any forum. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 05:49, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd still like to catch up on this one - it boils down to asking you how you identified User:Petesmiles as a sockpuppet of mine - the temperature's not high at all, but I would appreciate a quick chat.. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 07:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

<poke> :-) Privatemusings (talk) 07:21, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

hey David... you might have seen a message I sent to the mailing list about this one today. In retrospect, the thread I inserted myself into mightn't have been the best one - but I still would like to talk about the above at some point with you. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 13:01, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Bill Blankenship

An article that you have been involved in editing, Bill Blankenship, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Blankenship. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice?

AfD nomination of Wasp Factory Recordings

An article that you have a past interest in, Wasp Factory Recordings, together with all its related articles, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wasp Factory Recordings et al. Thanks. Andy Dingley (talk) 01:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Kerryangeltrap.PNG)

Thanks for uploading Image:Kerryangeltrap.PNG. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 06:55, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:T-bags2.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:T-bags2.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 19:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Chemistry book

Regarding this, is there a projectspace list of such things? ie. A list of the more well-done or specialised resuses of Wikipedia content? Carcharoth (talk) 22:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Ethical Management of the English Language Wikipedia

Here you suggest a survey of the operating principles of other large wikis would be a useful addition to the Ethical Management of the English Language Wikipedia WikiVersity project. Please add your name as a human resource on the project's main page and start a subpage there on this suggestion of yours. It would indeed be a great additional learning resource and set a good example to all the other participants. Please help in any way you can. Even if it is just a bunch of links on this interesting topic, others can take it from there in ye old wiki way we know and love. Please help. WAS 4.250 (talk) 22:31, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, Greg has decided to volunteer as the person responsible for project interface with the general public. I would be far more comfortable with you volunteering for that role. WAS 4.250 (talk) 22:36, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Block review

Three years ago you blocked User talk:Musachachado for sockpuppetry. He is now requesting unblock. Any chance you remember what happened back then and could weigh in? MBisanz ^talk 00:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Good Lord, I have no memory of this particular case at all, sorry - David Gerard (talk) 19:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

FIST

Do you have any responsibility for the Free Image Search Tool [2] on Meta? Or the ability to contact someone who is responsible? It's currently BROKEN - if there are ANY images in the article at all (such as from cleanup templates, audio version templates or anything else) it refuses to search saying there are already images in the article. I had to temporarily remove all the little images from an article to get it to work. Can you help at all? Exxolon (talk) 19:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

That's one of Magnus Manske's. You could email him directly or email commons-l for fast attention - David Gerard (talk) 19:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll copy that message to his Meta Talk page (now I've created a unified login). Exxolon (talk) 19:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

your block docmartincohen

Please explain your thinking here...

Why was a check run - and who asked for it?

May I point out:

1. At the time Wikigiraffes was blocked, I was specifically linked to Wikigiraffes - yet I was not then blocked. 2. Since then ( or indeed before) Docmartincohen has not made any controversial edits. Thus there is no new issue to be explored by checkusering anyone. 3. As argued with regard to Dremeraldgibb, this is a shared computer, with several users. 4. Even if there were to be conclusive evidence that say, Wikisquirrels, was Wiigiraffes - users are (established polciy says) allowed to 'reform' - or are you saying that 'once blocked' any new accounts can be blocked too? 5. Multiple accounts are tolerated, or are they not ?

86.220.40.184 (talk) 19:00, 28 July 2008 (UTC) (Docmartincohen)

It appears your main problem is you were caught. A handy way not to be caught is to stop attempting to use Wikipedia as a platform to grossly slander people. HTH! - David Gerard (talk) 21:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi - I'm not sure if this is the right place to make this point. Docmartincohen is appealing his block. I'd like to let it be known that I consider the wording of the appeal to be borderline libelous (this is not a threat against Wiki, by the way). Again the insinuation is that I've been involved in inappropriate edits, or that I've been encouraging inapproriate edits of entries that relate to myself, in order to gain publicity, etc. This is completely false. There was never any evidence that it was anything other than false. For example, Anonymous Dissident added cross-references to my work on some philosophy entries: he's a well-established editor here, who had happened to have read my book (I've made contact with him since - I need the evidence for a possible legal action). Thanks. --99.232.75.237 (talk) 12:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC) (Jeremy Stangroom)

Invite

Century Tower

As a current or past contributor to a related article, I thought I'd let you know about WikiProject University of Florida, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of University of Florida. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks and related articles. Thanks!

69.23.202.204 (talk) 20:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

XBurst

I'm very interested in the XBurst article you created and redirected to ARM architecture. Particularly because XBurst is a MIPS32 chip. More info is available in a recent rant on my user page if you like. My only interest, however, is your reasoning (perhaps some inaccurate sources?). Rcooley (talk) 02:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Probably :-) I thought XBurst was actually an ARM variant. If it's a MIPS variant, by all means please point it at the right place! - David Gerard (talk) 09:44, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Question about Replace this Image.svg

I have placed a question on the Talk Page of Replace this Image male.svg and would appreciate any insight you might have (especially what color settings you have on your personal computer). Please let me know. -- Guroadrunner (talk) 06:23, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Song

Hallo, I am from the german Wikipedia from the sociologic section, and I found out that you wrote a song text on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Song . We want to know the reason(s) why you wrote this song. It would be kind of you to leave an english (or german) comment on http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedistik/Soziologie/Musik&action=edit&redlink=1 . Thank you --84.166.123.219 (talk) 07:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

ASDF Wikipedia Reader art project

ASDF Makes - A Wikipedia Reader (via manystuff.org)

Hi. I just saw this. Not sure if it's appropriate to mention on one of the mailing lists (please feel free to do so, if it is). (The zipped download is just the articles in pdf form, plus an rtf intro. Hit-and-miss for me. The book looks amusing though.) Thought you might get a kick out of, if noone else. :) -- Quiddity (talk) 19:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Huh, interesting :-) - David Gerard (talk) 02:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice

Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Wikipedia:Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 19:17, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Reference Desk and article improvements

I noticed this post and the answer you might be looking for is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Reference Desk Article Collaboration. Also, see the translusion lists of Template:WPRDAC and Template:WPRDAC attention. That is only the tip of the iceberg though. A lot of improvements aren't labelled like that. Equally though, a massive amount of potential improvements sink down into the archives and are lost. But the mechanisms are in place if anyone wants to try and increase the information flow in either direction. Carcharoth (talk) 13:45, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I was hoping for. Basically it needs someone putting in a pile of effort, and I know that isn't going to be me ;-) - David Gerard (talk) 14:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Me neither. :-) But the reference desk is the closest we come to "official" discussion threads about the subject of articles. Well, apart from the mailing lists, of course, though the discussion there should be meta-issues. The idea of having a link somewhere down the bottom of an article to "external discussion" is interesting though. Could drive a lot of traffic for those who like to think about that kind of thing. Carcharoth (talk) 14:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Bot removal of image placeholders

You may wish to comment at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/AmeliorationBot 2 as it is being discussed how and whether the images should be mass-removed and how they were added. Cheers! DoubleBlue (Talk) 23:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

My RfA

Thank you for supporting me in my RfA, which passed with a count of (166/43/7). I appreciate your comments and in my actions as an administrator I will endeavor to maintain the trust you have placed in me. I am honored by your trust and your support. Thank you, Cirt (talk) 03:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Ronnie Biggs

I have an image of Ronnie Biggs i would like you to use, i took it at his house in Brazil when i visited him in 2000. I have cropped down an image to 150 x 150 that i currently have much larger. Please let me know if you'll consider using it, here it is Ronnie Biggs —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fz22gq (talk • contribs) 07:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

D&D articles for Wikipedia 0.7

Hi there!  :)

As someone who's worked on D&D and/or RPG articles before, I'm inviting you to participate in our goal to both improve articles that have been selected to be placed in the next Wikipedia DVD release, as well as nominate more to be selected for this project. Please see the WikiProject D&D talk page for more details. :) BOZ (talk) 19:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of subcultures

I have nominated List of subcultures, an article you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of subcultures (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. TallNapoleon (talk) 06:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

• Perhaps you could go into more detail as to why you disagree with the AFD? I'm *much* more open to keeping since it passed the other AFD--I saw that it redirected from a deleted page and had very similar content, which is why I put in the AFD--I did not see that it had already survived one. TallNapoleon (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

IP block on 61.18.170.232

I use the broadband provider iCable, the dominant cable operator in Hong Kong. The IP you have blocked is one of many IPs assigned dynamically by iCable to their broadband customers. The IP addresses are assigned randomly and dynamically, and seem to change very frequently.

I recently encountered a block that you had put on 61.18.170.232 , as soon as I refreshed the page, it went away.

You may want to have a look at Nixeagle's talk page, where I've brought up the issue with him.

LK (talk) 04:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

apparently

"apparently Mr Coffey contacted them ". Yes, and apparently you are a subversive editor.--Mazarin07 (talk) 19:39, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

WQA about recent block

Hello, just wanted to let you know that Mazarin07 has raised the issue of your recent block of him at Wikiquette Alerts here.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that one cannot go re-adding controversial information to a BLP without discussing it on the talk page and reaching a consensus. That said, I have to admit I think it was probably a bad idea for you to do the actual block. Since nobody else had challenged the quality of sourcing, it probably would have been better to have a different admin wield the hammer. Anyway, food for thought at least. Cheers!  :) --Jaysweet (talk) 16:48, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

It was a BLP issue via OTRS, so it was pretty important - David Gerard (talk) 18:22, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Was not aware of OTRS involvement. Nevermind, good show then! --Jaysweet (talk) 18:25, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I usually don't wave a big sign saying so as it's a drama magnet. But I do see your point - David Gerard (talk) 22:10, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Xenu

Xenu has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 04:44, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:Rouge admin

Wikipedia:Rouge admin, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Rouge admin (4th nomination) and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:Rouge admin during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Law Lord (talk) 10:05, 27 October 2008 (UTC) Law Lord (talk) 10:05, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Nikkilost.PNG)

Thanks for uploading Image:Nikkilost.PNG. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:08, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks like someone put it back into play. How annoying ;-) - David Gerard (talk) 20:01, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Your block of Giano

Is not well-founded and shows horrible judgement. ESPECIALLY considering the past history between you and him. I suggest that you gracefully undo it, before it gets taken to AN/ANI and undone for you. SirFozzie (talk) 22:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Erm, I think the fact that both those accounts are the same person is an open secret. I might even have gone so far as "common knowledge" but maybe I'm mistaken about that. I'm definitely struggling to see how this was an abusive use of multiple accounts? WJBscribe (talk) 22:13, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The "history" is personal abuse on his part and me catching him out on my part. I have taken it to arbcom, and would suggest others do the same. 24 hours for the sockpuppeteer and indefinite for the sockpuppet is usual - David Gerard (talk) 22:15, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

David, you're wrong here. This doesn't need ArbCom. This needs a prompt reversal and for you to realize that your judgement was, and currently IS lacking. SirFozzie (talk) 22:23, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Presumably if you'd taken it to ArbCom a reasonable time before blocking, FloNight could have responded that there wasn't much secrecy surrounding the identity of that account [3]. These really are dreadful blocks, I urge you to reverse them. File a case with ArbCom if you feel one is justified but you are not an appropriate person to be making decisions about whether Giano should be blocked and you have yet to make a convincing case that there has been any abuse of multiple accounts here. WJBscribe (talk) 22:26, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Since you have not reversed your action, I have brought your appalling lack of judgement on AN: [4] SirFozzie (talk) 22:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

He hasn't made any edits since your demand ten minutes earlier that he reverse his judgment. I do not think that there's much of a causal case to be made about his tardiness to act - it's 11:00 at night where he is. People are known to sleep. Phil Sandifer (talk) 23:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Phil, did you miss the statement timestamped 22:15? He wasn't going to discuss it and demanded that we take it to ArbCom if we had any problems with it. Well, it's now at ArbCom, although I'm fairly sure it's not in the form he was expecting. SirFozzie (talk) 23:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

RFAR

Please see. Moreschi (talk) 23:12, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Who are the severalother checkuser who have invaded my privacy? WHO? Giano (talk) 23:39, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

• "confirmed and reviewed by multiple checkusers" I want the name of every single one of these people. Giano (talk) 00:10, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It seems "multiple" was in fact 3 (counting himself). I suppose even finding 2 to go along with his abuse of power was quite amazing - Anyone know if he has he been fired yet? Giano (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Notifying you that there is an outstanding question from New York Brad.--Tznkai (talk) 20:50, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

a thought

it's all sort of blown up, I guess, but please give some thought to just quietly stepping down from your role as a checkuser. I rather feel this bungle has cooked that goose, and it would be the right thing to do, and for the best. Privatemusings (talk) 02:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Agree with PM on this one. Please step down as a CU, immediately. Bstone (talk) 06:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I must agree with this. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:15, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Even as her final hours approached, Mme. de Burgh conducted herself with a poise and dignity could only have mystified, frustrated and confused an enormous boob such as yourself. Imagine tormenting charming old ladies and productive editors when there are genuine miscreants on the loose! I suggest you pack up the toybox and rethink your life. The days of characters of your ilk being taken seriously, even on a largely frivolous website such as this, appear to have expired.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 13:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Please, sir, recall the rule to "ignore all rules." Bearian (talk) 23:26, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

• There's no evidence that David Gerard has violated any policies. He found and blocked a disruptive sock. Big deal. It's too bad he didn't so a long time ago as that would have averted this whole drama. Folks who operate socks without disclosing them should expect to get their accounts checkusered. Just like folks who invest in tax shelters shouldn't be surprised when the revenue service audits their tax returns. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 01:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, operating a droll Wikipedia account is just like cheating on your taxes. The similarities are staggering. David Gerard is quite fortunate to have a defender of your calibre at his disposal; until you turned up, I daresay he was starting to look like a bozo. Please edify us with a few more analogies.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 02:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Charming old ladies? I haven't seen any around here. How about you indicate which policy David Gerard violated that justifies you calling for him to resign the checkuser tools? How about you find the clause in the civility policy that permits calling other editors "boobs"? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 04:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe the civility clause you are requesting is clearly laid out here. That's the trouble with rules that "anyone can edit." Any bozo can edit them to suit their agenda. But you and your friends wouldn't know anything about that.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

David, Will, do you honestly think this block was good for the encyclopedia and the community? If so, I rather question your judgment and fitness to be administrators. The purpose of our sockpuppet policies is to forbid deceptive use of alternate accounts. Such an obvious joke account cannot possibly be deceptive. The worst Giano could be accused of would be a joke in bad taste (and not nearly as big a joke in bad taste as the ArbCom itself has been lately, so there you go). If nothing else, the historical fact that blocking Giano always results in more drama and never sticks should have let people know this is going to need discussion, not immediate action. Think about the encyclopedia and the community, not policy. The latter exists for the former. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 03:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Was the sock good for Wikipedia? Please explain how running a sock for ArbCom helped the encyclopedia. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 04:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It was in no way harmful, unlike David's block. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 07:28, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Satire is instructive and humor brightens the dreary mood around here. But you and your friends wouldn't know anything about that.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 04:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopedias are inherently dreary. If you want satire and humor there are many other websites designed to offer those. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 04:42, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

What a waste of everybody's time, WP:POINT included [5]. Why don't we all move on? Shall we? ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 04:53, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

No, we are not going to move in untill Jimbo realises that this is an unacceptable way for checkusers to behave. When caught thes people clearly on a fishing trip said they checkusered because they thought it was the evil and banned "Greg Kohs" - if the best lie they can come up with to justify an invasion of privacy is that Alice Reighlly paid for a biography, then we do have some serius problems. We can begin by firing them. Giano (talk) 07:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If you don't want checkusers poking around then don't use undisclosed socks to make defamatory edits and to disrupt community elections. This is your own fault. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 17:30, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

But you are forgetting your friend Gerard knew 2 years ago and even discussed it on IRC. He is person not to be trusted. I'm afraid this time he has rather cooked his goose, and is now going to have to eat it. Giano (talk)

Gerard isn't my friend. He, like you, is just a colleague. If you weren't running a sock account none of this would have happened. You did not disclose the sock to the community, you used to it make at least one defamatory edit to a BLP, you used it to edit articles that you edited under your main account, you ran it in the ArbCom election, and you repeatedly denied in public that it was a sock. Gerard did the community a favor by putting an edit to that disruptive charade. Secret accounts don't help this project. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 19:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

• I have to agree with all of my non-Will colleagues here. If this is how you plan to use your authority in the future, it would be better for the encyclopedia if you gave up your status as a checkuser. Your judgment in this instance was extremely poor, and it's not the first time you've made a substantial mistake of this nature. Please give it some thought. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 22:16, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

But it wasn't even David that did the primary checkusering in this case, Thatcher and someone else have said they did, so I don't see why people can say he should stop being a CU for something he didn't even do. I mean he might have checkusered G and CdB (I don't know), but so did a couple of others. And I'm glad I know who I might have voted for for Arbcom, after Giano said he wasn't running. I mean, I might have voted for CdB for a laugh and a bit of spoofing of the system, but I still like to know who I'm voting for, maybe that's just me.:) And users who don't get into the political machinations of wiki (a lot of people for whom voting in the Arb elections or at a few RfAs is the totality of their involvement in this side of WP, perhaps) wouldn't know who Giano was, they'd have had no chance of knowing who they were voting for at all without rooting through lots of contribs paranoiacally, which they shouldn't have to do. Sticky Parkin 23:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Sticky Parkin, I am begining to wonder about you, and have one of my huge gut feelings. Which are never wrong. In this case it has been late, but never too late. Giano (talk) 23:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Hiya DG. I sure wish ya would've told me who the Catherine account was 2yrs ago. I always found that account annoying. Had I'd know it was a sock; I wouldn't have been annoyed about it. Why didn't anybody tell me? I feel so unloved. GoodDay (talk) 23:27, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Augh! Big kiss XXXXX, Come to the funeral tomorrow and have some Pol Roger. Giano (talk) 23:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Sniff sniff. At least somebody cares. GoodDay (talk) 23:58, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

RfAr

Just in case you haven't seen it, I have posed a question to you on WP:RfAr in connection with the pending request for arbitration. Please respond when you get back online. Thank you, Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:29, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The RFAr's gone. But I can happily state here that I will be happy never to take an admin action concerning Giano II again. There's plenty of other admins around - David Gerard (talk) 11:04, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

You should not have the power to even think about it, and I won't rest until you have no powers to abuse at all. You should never have the opportunity to do this to anyone else again. You are a disgrace as an Admin and a disgrace a checkuser. Giano (talk) 11:07, 22 November 2008 (UTC)