User talk:Surtsicna: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 07:28, 9 February 2024

m²

Hello, Surtsicna, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:

Introduction
The five pillars of Wikipedia
How to edit a page
How to write a great article
Manual of Style
Also feel free to make test edits in the sandbox.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to leave me a message or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will drop by to help. SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox peerage title

Template:Infobox peerage title has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox family. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you.

New message from Narutolovehinata5

Hello, Surtsicna. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Richard Hansen (horticulturist).
Message added 07:12, 26 December 2023 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:12, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's incredible that I was just a few hours late from my holiday, Narutolovehinata5 and Z1720, but the decision to close the nomination was logical. Surtsicna (talk) 13:03, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Ioveta

On 27 December 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ioveta, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Latin princess Ioveta was about four years old when her mother, Queen Morphia, surrendered her to the Turks as debt payment security? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ioveta. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Ioveta), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:04, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year

		Happy New Year!
		Wishing you and yours a Happy New Year, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and distraction-free and may Janus light your way. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Convent of Saint Lazarus

On 3 January 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Convent of Saint Lazarus, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the thought of her sister Ioveta being a common nun was so abhorrent to the queen of Jerusalem that she ordered the construction of the Convent of Saint Lazarus for Ioveta to rule as an abbess? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Convent of Saint Lazarus. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Convent of Saint Lazarus), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Stephanie of Courtenay

On 4 January 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Stephanie of Courtenay, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that when Abbess Stephanie of Courtenay's niece's marriage to the king of Jerusalem was annulled, the court's reasoning was so flimsy that a noted jurist had to ask Stephanie to explain it to him? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Stephanie of Courtenay. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Stephanie of Courtenay), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request move comment

Hi, can you please make a comment so a consensus can be reached at: Talk:History of the Balkans#Requested move 27 December 2023 and Talk:Slavic migrations to the Balkans#Requested move 27 December 2023. Miki Filigranski (talk) 13:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Morphia of Melitene

On 7 January 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Morphia of Melitene, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that when her husband was captured by the Turks, Queen Morphia hired a band of secretly armed fake monks and merchants to infiltrate the prison and rescue him – only for him to be captured again? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Morphia of Melitene. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Morphia of Melitene), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Aoidh (talk) 00:04, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Isla Phillips" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Isla Phillips has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 7 § Isla Phillips until a consensus is reached. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:49, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A pipe-cleaning tool

Hi,

In September of last year, you contributed to a discussion at WT:REDIR about WP:NOPIPE, MOS:NOTBROKEN, and so on. While looking into the issue in more depth I found you'd been involved in some prior discussions on the same subject. I drafted a message to you then, and didn't send it.

I've recently been involved in the case of a long-term block evader whose activities include converting redirects to piped links, and had an idea for a JavaScript tool that could be used to selectively revert his edits. I put in a request, and one of the helpful people at WP:US/R has come up with a prototype. It's a short script that will replace a link of the form [[A|B]] with one of the form [[B]] when [[B]] is a valid redirect to [[A]]. I've done a few tests, and it seems to work very well.

I'm still fairly new here, and I'm uncertain about the wisdom (practical and political) of using such an approach more broadly. As an example, I've run the script on a page you edited yesterday, "Gian Gastone de' Medici". I'd value your opinion.

Best wishes, Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 11:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jean-de-Nivelle. That looks very good! As far as I can tell the only exceptions to WP:NOPIPE and WP:NOTBROKEN are navboxes and the Main Page, so if we were just to avoid those, we'd be fine. This seems like a really good idea. Surtsicna (talk) 11:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the quick reply. I've used the tool to make a hundred or so edits in the last few days, specifically targeting pages edited by the block evader I mentioned. There may be some risk of objections to its broader use on the grounds of WP:MEATBOT etc., so I'm proceeding cautiously. Why not install the script and have a play? I'm checking the results as I go, but so far it seems much better (more accurate, and many, many times quicker) than doing the same thing by hand. One situation it doesn't handle is the use of deliberate disambiguation links, like this one, so it's best to check for those before publishing an edit. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 11:52, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What's the problem with this edit? Mid Bedfordshire by-election (disambiguation) is itself only a redirect to Mid Bedfordshire by-election. Surtsicna (talk) 12:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the inclusion of a disambiguation link alerts a bot, and the page is added to a list of pages that need fixing. Using the format [[A (disambiguation)|A]] reassures the bot that the disambiguation link is deliberate. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 12:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Interesting. I have never used a script in my 15 years on Wikipedia. I might give this a try - when I figure out how. Surtsicna (talk) 12:30, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's my first time as well - and I'm a convert! I'm going to be in and out for the rest of the day, but if you need any help setting it up, just ping me. Obviously there's no documentation yet. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 12:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ahnentafel

Hello Surtsicna! I've seen your edit summary and would like to ask where you deem an ahnentafel to be appropiate, and where it is not.

EmilySarah99 (talk) 07:14, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, EmilySarah99. Theoretically, it is appropriate if you can source them to a biography of the subject, showing that historians who have researched the person consider the person's descent from the people in the ahnentafel to be relevant. What biographies show instead are family trees with siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins. I am adding those instead, and if you'd like to help, it would be appreciated. Surtsicna (talk) 09:34, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, why not, I will have to figure those out. EmilySarah99 (talk) 10:46, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pictish language

Why are you "fixing" links that do not need fixing because they are not broken? The Banner talk 10:25, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, The Banner. Have you read the guideline I linked, namely WP:NOPIPE? Surtsicna (talk) 12:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I did. But are you aware that you are fixing things that do not need fixing? And that you are doing just useless edits? The Banner talk 12:29, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, The Banner, now I suggest MOS:NOPIPE: "do not use a piped link where it is possible to use a redirected term". The edits are supposed to bring the article in line with the Manual of Style. I do not think such edits are useless edits and I do not mind making them. Surtsicna (talk) 12:45, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It never states that you have to remove valid direct links in favour of a redirect. The Banner talk 13:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Banner, please. It says "do not use a piped link where it is possible to use a redirected term". Do not use a piped link. Do not. It does not have to command editors to do things because we are all volunteers here. Your argument is that the redirects are "less correct" and that is not true. The article does not follow the Manual of Style, and there is nothing wrong with editing it to make it follow the Manual of Style. Surtsicna (talk) 13:28, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it state that you have to remove valid direct links in favour of redirects? It is an advice on how to create new links. Not a rule that says that it is mandatory to remove valid links. You are reading something what is not there. The Banner talk 13:40, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nowhere in the Manual of Style is the editor ever told that they have to do something. That is because we are all volunteers. On Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking alone it says "do not" 22 times.
MOS:GEOLINK: "Do not link the larger unit." It means remove the link to the larger unit if there is one.
MOS:DRAFTNOLINK: "Do not link to pages outside the article namespace." It means remove the links to pages outside the article namespace if you see them.
MOS:NOFORCELINK: "Do not force a reader to use that link to understand the sentence." It means if a reader is forced to use a link to understand the sentence, fix it.
MOS:CIRCULAR: "Do not link to pages that redirect back to the page." It means if you see a circular link, remove it.
Otherwise the article is not following the Manual of Style. If you are truly disputing the meaning and intent of the words "do not", I suggest that you take it up at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style because that is how the entire thing functions. Surtsicna (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, it does not. You are inventing a rules what is not stated. The Banner talk 14:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ask whether "do not do something" means "fix it when you see it done" at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. In the meantime, please, do not interfere with MoS edits. Redirects are, per MoS, preferable to pipes. Surtsicna (talk) 14:33, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion you wanted is now opened here: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Mandatory. The Banner talk 14:15, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Este medallions

They are from a genealogical manuscript of the 1470s: http://www.ilbulinoedizionidarte.it/italiano/facsimili_250.asp. Unfortunately, the Biblioteca Estense website works only intermittently. Srnec (talk) 21:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Srnec. I was half-convinced they were some fan art. Do you think they bring value to the biographies, especially for 12th or 13th century men? I am always wary of including such portrayals: reliable sources do not feature them, and they are rather misleading in regards to the fashion of the time. Surtsicna (talk) 22:45, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To me, the pic of Alberto Azzo II is more misleading as to the prevailing artistic and script styles of the 11th century than it is misleading as to how he would have looked. As to whether it adds value, I suspect for the average reader it does. It helps confirm his notability as someone important enough for somebody to paint. In the age of manuscript digitization, we have an embarrassment of riches, so I'm not sure that what reliable sources feature is all that indicative. Srnec (talk) 02:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Isla Phillips for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Isla Phillips is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Isla Phillips until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

voorts (talk/contributions) 23:11, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Theresa May's tenure as Home Secretary

I noticed that your edit here introduced a disambiguation link. The issue is that Foreign Secretary links to the British office, while foreign secretary doesn't. I would have fixed it myself, but I'm capital-agnostic, pipe-averse, and indecisive, so I thought I'd just let you know. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 11:01, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Scottish Gaelic language|Scottish Gaelic

If you think that's absurd, how about [[Henry VIII of England|Henry VIII]]? Have a look through this lot! Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 12:15, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts on this source? Unreliable?

Jones, Barry (30 November 2022). Dictionary of World Biography: Ninth edition. ANU Press. ISBN 978-1-76046-552-0. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:59, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Poecilia picta

On 29 January 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Poecilia picta, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, ), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Schwede 66 01:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Poecilia vivipara

On 2 February 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Poecilia vivipara, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that for the southern molly, sexual selection favors smaller males because they copulate by sneaking up to females? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Poecilia vivipara. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Poecilia vivipara), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 00:02, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DYK for Lancelot of Navarre

On 2 February 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Lancelot of Navarre, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that King Charles III wanted his illegitimate son Lancelot to become a bishop but the pope forbade it? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Lancelot of Navarre. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Lancelot of Navarre), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Ganesha811 (talk) 12:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Orthodox Islam" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Orthodox Islam has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 9 § Orthodox Islam until a consensus is reached. —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 07:28, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 160: / Line 160: @@
 |text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2024/February#2 February 2024|2 February 2024]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Lancelot of Navarre]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that [[Charles III of Navarre|King Charles&nbsp;III]] wanted his illegitimate son '''[[Lancelot of Navarre|Lancelot]]''' to become a bishop but the pope forbade it?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Lancelot of Navarre]]. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2024-01-23&end=2024-02-12&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Lancelot_of_Navarre Lancelot of Navarre])</small>, and the hook may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics/Monthly DYK pageview leaders|the statistics page]] after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
 }}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  —[[User:Ganesha811|Ganesha811]] ([[User talk:Ganesha811|talk]]) 12:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
+== "[[:Orthodox Islam]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Orthodox_Islam&redirect=no Orthodox Islam]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 9#Orthodox Islam}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> —[[User:Lights and freedom|Lights and freedom]] ([[User talk:Lights and freedom|''talk'']] ~ [[Special:Contributions/Lights and freedom|'''contribs''']]) 07:28, 9 February 2024 (UTC)