User talk:Djsasso/Archive 1

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P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

Martin Luther

Hello, I don't agree with your decision to make the Martin Luther article a disambiguation page; you probably should've discussed the move on the talk page first. Please move it back and discuss your proposed move on the article's talk page. - BSveen 20:54, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't realize it would be controversial. Seemed to make sense since thats how most disambiguities are taken care of. I have put it up to have an admin move it back.--Djsasso 21:16, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Northern Ontario

Just for the record, the article on Thunder Bay's daily newspaper has to go at Thunder Bay Chronicle-Journal, because it's not the only newspaper in the world called Chronicle-Journal. "The Chronicle-Journal" with no city name in it needs to be a disambiguation page. Bearcat 11:06, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Then it should be Chronicle-Journal (Thunder Bay) should it not? --Djsasso 05:52, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey

Welcome to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey project. Let me know on my talk page if I can help in any way. Kevin Rector (talk) 13:33, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Hockey minor leagues

Ummm ... no. The terms "AAA", "AA", and "A" refer to official classifications of baseball minor leagues, but there are no such classifications in minor league hockey, despite many people trying to force baseball terminology on the sport.

That being said, in baseball, the AAA-AA-A classification is stable -- leagues like the IL, PCL, EL and NY-PL have been at their levels for many decades -- which cannot be said for hockey minor leagues. Within a 20 year period, the IHL went from a semi-pro league, to the point where some of the crazier owners discussed competing with the NHL, to being defunct, and in that same period, the ECHL went from being just barely above semi-pro level to the second leading minor league in hockey. RGTraynor 20:01, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Jonathan Cheechoo, Jason Krog, et al.

Hi, I noticed that you listed these articles as copyvios on June 15. I couldn't find any page on or that said they were. Do you have any exact links to pages from which these articles were copied? --Idont Havaname 18:23, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Thats not the case, I follow the ABA, EVERY team that is announced they have paid the money for the franchise. You can contact the ABA CEO Joe Newman if you do not take my word for it.

I know Joe Newman ABA CEO does not do that anymore, I spoke with him on the phone before about that, he let some teams get in without paying the money last year, but not this season, he will no longer do that. SportsMasterESPN 10:15, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Sports userboxes

Can you take a look at the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Userboxes/US_and_Canadian_Sports. -- Jeff3000 03:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Reminder on Hockey Infoboxes

From Template:Infobox Ice Hockey Player -

  • former_teams
Use for other teams the player played for in his CURRENT LEAGUE.

-- 16:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually its for highest league played in unless we have changed the standards.--Djsasso 21:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
So apparently it has changed...seems silly to mention his minor stuff and ignore the NHL status. Especially when we have the prospect tag to mention the AHL experience. --Djsasso 22:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Thunder Bay, Ontario

Greetings. I am curious about your rationale for changing [[Thunder Bay, Ontario]] to [[Thunder Bay, Ontario|Thunder Bay]], [[Ontario]] across many articles. On the face of it, I can't say that doing so seems a good idea.
-- Lonewolf BC 04:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It's just a standard way of doing cities so that both the link to the city and the link the province is clickable. --Djsasso 16:40, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I guessed (as could most anyone) that the idea is to make the province into a separate link. I just don't see that as helpful in most cases. What exactly is the thinking behind it? And whose "standard" is it?
-- Lonewolf BC 22:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Djsasso! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 17:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format

Hello, Djsasso. What's you opinon on my compromise proposal? I admit, it's not the perfect solution (it may even anger, editors on both sides of the debate). I just want to end the diacriticals dispute, it's be going on for a year. GoodDay 21:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I do agree that it needs to get solved and I like your idea but I think I like the opposite of what you are suggesting. I think the title of the article should shill have the diactrics etc but that they should make it "english" inside the article. I never use them in articles but I do very much believe in seeing them in the name of the article. --Djsasso 21:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
My idea for English title, is based on English Wikipedia as a whole. What's your view on different treatment for Euro/French NHL personnel & former NHL personnel? GoodDay 21:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
To be honest in the most part it doesn't matter to me which way we go. I just feel being that it is a proper name you leave it the way it is in their native language out of respect. However, as far as your proposal goes yeah that could work but I don't think anyone will really see the difference. --Djsasso 22:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
How about adding to my compromise proposal on the Players page format. Editors on both sides of debate (as we are), seen in agreement, may encourage others to join in. Give the compromise proposal a bi-partisan touch. GoodDay 22:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Djsasso. Now, there might be move to a compromise (here's hoping). GoodDay 22:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
You should check out Krm500's compromise, at my talk page. I think Krm500's compromise, should be given an Afc at Wikipedia: WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format. GoodDay 23:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

NHL player nationalities: categories

The standard for categorization is by nationality, not by birthplace -- there are too many players in the NHL whose nationality isn't the birthplace. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format -- "Each player should have a category for their nationality" (it does NOT say "birthplace"). Because not all nations have jus soli law (which grants citizenship based on birth -- for example, I'm an ethnic Chinese-born Canadian who is ineligible for Chinese citizenship), the current standard is to place both the birthplace nation and the player's current nationality in categories. (See Dany Heatley for an example.) Otherwise, it can lead to some complications:

The main reason for this is it's misleading to categorize a player by birthplace, because birthplace can happen completely by accident, and also because it's misleading to assume a player has connections to his birthplace but not the place where he was raised (Robyn Regehr is an example -- he's never considered Brazilian, just Brazilian-born). -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 00:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes but the point of the categories as I understood it from the previous discussion. (I forget where though) was that it was to be a grouping by birthplace as the info box gives the nationalities. Regehr is a perfect example as he is listed in the Brazilian category. As are many others. There is a good 20+ example of this already. That you can see hey how many players were born in Venezuela or whereever. --Djsasso 15:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
That being said I have no problem with BOTH being listed. But I objected to his only listing Canada. --Djsasso 15:53, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, from what I understand, nationality is also determined by international play and that birthplace is not the absolute determiner of that. But yeah, I have no problem listing both categories either, since many other similar Wikipedia articles do exactly the same thing (by listing both birthplace and place of citizenship). -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 18:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


Was there consensus fro changing infoboxes on that page? I didn't know anything about it. Kevlar67 20:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe so. I was just reverting an edit by an anon user. --Djsasso 20:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Saginaw Spirit player stats

Just wondering why you were deleting all of the Saginaw Spirit players(NHL Drafted) curretn season stats. I have been updating them on a weekly basis. I see nothing wrong with keeping them updated. Thanks...Kivpit 20:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Because it is Wikipedia standard not to have current season stats till the end of the season. If you continue to keep putting current season stats in they will keep being reverted. It makes a huge mess in a number of areas if you are constantly updating the stats. --Djsasso 20:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

My additions to the category "English Canadians"

I was wondering why you deleted my additions to this category, which is for Canadians whose ancestors are from England (see the top of the page) similar to the "French Quebecers" category and the "Scottish Canadians" category. There are far more names on those pages than on the "English Canadians" page. People of English ancestry should be allowed the same rights as people of Scottish and French ancestry - remember, Wikipedia should be free from all forms of racism, including anti-English racism. Please be fair and let names of people be added to the English Canadians category, even if you don't like English people. Joe Denham (

Hey Djsasso! Keep on deleting the names of people who descended from English immigrants, your doing great work! English people are SCUM and people of English heritage don't even deserve a page on Wikipedia. English people stink and have rotton teeth. Glad to know your a Canadiens fan like me. from Jonathan, a Vancouverite from Quebec, Feb 10 2:55 pm
Well I am certainly not deleting them cause they suck cause I am one. I keep deleting them cause too man people add ancestry with no mention of it in articles. I do it with any ancestry. If its not mentioned in the article with appropriate reference then I remove it. --Djsasso 19:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Category order

You mentioned in an edit summary that categories should be placed in alphabetical order according to WP:MOS guidelines. Could you tell me which page in the MOS you found that? I was trying to find some guidance on that a couple of weeks ago and couldn't see it anywhere. I looked in WP:CAT but there's nothing about it there. Thanks! --Gary Will 04:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

List of family relations in the National Hockey League

Hello, Djsasso. I've noticed you've attempted (twice) to include the Rheaume's in this article. If you disagree with this article's criteria, simply open up a Rfc at that articles 'Discussion page'. Personally, I prefer the current criteria (which excludes Manon Rheaume). GoodDay 19:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually I only added it once. The other edit I made was disambiguating another link. You removed it when it was already included so technically you should put up a RFC to remove it. --Djsasso 19:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about the disambiguating link. I'm not gonna bother with an Rfc, I prefer the articles current criteria. GoodDay 20:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Just curious, which disambiguating link was it? GoodDay 21:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Claude Larose --Djsasso 21:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I've checked the 'history' of this article, I didn't do anything to the Larose entry. GoodDay 21:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say you did. I just replied to you before I saw you crossed out the twice. I mean that one of my two edits was the disambig and one was the Rheaume stuff. --Djsasso 00:31, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
That's cool, no problem. GoodDay 18:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Mike Danton & Category:Ontario sportspeople

Hi there. I'm just wondering why you removed the 'Category:Ontario sportspeople' from Mike Danton as he is from Ontario, was a professional athlete, and most of his history with David Frost (which makes him more notable as a news item) is from his time as an athlete in Ontario. I agree that it's a pretty broad, all-encompassing category, but it seems to fit in this case. I'm just wondering what your reasoning was in removing the category. ColtsScore 09:37, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Because the category I put him into is a subcat of the other one which is more specific. --Djsasso 16:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

"People from"

You wrote in an edit summary that "people from" categories are supposed to be restricted to birthplaces. Can you give me a link to the Wikipedia guideline where you found that? Thanks! --Gary Will 15:07, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I would have to search for a specific link. But there was recently a discussion about it in the Afd area where it was brought up that "People from" are birthplaces and "Associated with" are for places they were later living or working or whatever. --Djsasso 15:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


Next time, assume good faith before reverting any edits. --Basique 20:09, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Your edits broke the page and you were logged in anonymously. It was reasonable enough to revert that edit based on that. I do appologize if it wasn't correct.--Djsasso 20:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
As far as I could see my edits broke nothing and were well commented, they were also ongoing. Being anonymous doesn't mean you throw out assume good faith. Hopefully you'll remember that in the future. Good day. --Basique 20:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Well your headers were messed up...but whatever you don't have to be rude about it. It was a mistake. And as far as the link one yes that one shouldn't have been reverted but VP doesn't make that distinction. --Djsasso 20:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


Hi, why did you remove the category from Template:User WikiProject Ice Hockey? --Mus Musculus 17:03, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Because on user boxes when you put that sort of category on a userbox it puts every single person with that userbox into the category. Which is not valid. I should not be listed in WikiProject Ice Hockey Templates category. --Djsasso 17:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
So wouldn't the solution be to place <noinclude> tags around the category instead of removing it? --Mus Musculus 17:19, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe that works in this case but I will try it right now. Ok it appears to work. For some reason I was under the impression that it didn't work on boxes. --Djsasso 17:23, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks for trying it out. --Mus Musculus 17:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


I see you revert my edits about the abbreviation for the Swedish Elitserien. SEL is not used for Elitserien. You will probably not find it anywhere on the official site. They use the abbreviation Elit for Elitserien. On the ice hockey wiki project no one has argued against using the Elit abbreviation so I assume that Elit is what will be used on wikipedia. --claes 22:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually it was on the ice hockey wiki project that SEL was decided on. --Djsasso 22:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Show me where, please. I've only found a discussion where Elit was proposed and no one objected to that. --claes 23:49, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I will have to go searching for it. As for the discussion you mentioned, I did find that one and there was an objection on it. Yes SEL doesn't show up on the official site because the official site is in Swedish. SEL is the English name of the league. --Djsasso 00:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Avalanche Roster

WHy are you removing my edits? Jmlk17 06:27, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Because we don't use the team templates on player pages. --Djsasso 06:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Where is that policy? Jmlk17 06:28, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Somewhere in the WikiProject talk pages. The rosters change to often to have them on each individual players page. --Djsasso 06:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
So even after the trade deadline, and months before anyone could POSSIBLY change, this is still in effect somehow? Jmlk17 06:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Just because there is a 4 month period where players can't move doesn't mean we should change pages just for the one third of the year that players don't move. Not to mention players still move up and down to the farm during this time.--Djsasso 06:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Alright...fair enough. Thanks for the explanation. Do you know where the info is at though? Jmlk17 06:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Not offhand. To be honest I probably wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't of readded it to a bunch of pages I just took it off of. --Djsasso 06:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Simple Question

Hello Djsasso. I have a minor question regarding an edit you've done to a number of pages I've created (Dale Craigwell and Rudy Poeschek among others) in which you change the stats heading from my title "Career NHL Statistics" to "Career Statistics". While this is not a big deal or a major edit I am curious as to why you made that switch. The only stats I put on their pages were their career stats from the NHL, hence the title "career NHL Statistics". I did that because in my opinion if somebody wants to look at their complete stats they can go to Hockey DB or some other link I put up. So I get confused when I see your switch to "career Statistics" because that is not an appropriate heading for the stats provided. Now I'm a semi-new user here and I could definitly be in the wrong but I was just wondering what the mindset behind that change was. ThanksBasstastic 22:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Its because we have a standard for player pages and use the same headers for all pages to create uniformity. You are correct in that not all of their stats are listed there however it is still there career statistics even if its not their entire career. Eventually I will get back to those ones and enter in all the stats that you did not enter, however as long as the link to the hockeydb is still on the page we consider it complete. --Djsasso 23:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok Thanks a lot. I will make sure to make future pages with that heading. Thanks for your help.Basstastic 00:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

James Kelly Montreal Maroons

Hello There,

Since you've listed yourself as a Montreal Canadiens I was thinking maybe you could help me with a Montreal Maroons related question. James (sometimes called Jim) Kelly played for the Montreal Maroons back in the 1920s. I can't seem to find any Information anywhere. If you could help it would be great.

Thanks, Michael Drew 21:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


Since you and I voted alike on the March 25 Baseball families discussion, I am calling for your vote on the April 2, Football players (misnamed) and Basketball families categories. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 22:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

{{Tampa Bay Lightning 2004 Stanley Cup Team}}

Why have you removed the Stanley Cup Team template from so many articles? --Wafulz 03:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Because WikiProject Hockey felt it was being used as a way around a previous deletion. Perhaps I should wait for the tfd. --Djsasso 03:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
What previous deletion? --Wafulz 23:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Categories of the same name. Can you imagine how messy player pages will get that win on multiple teams. --Djsasso 04:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Hello, I was wondering if you would consider using informative edit summaries for your edits to articles. You tend to edit a number of pages that I have watchlisted, and I have to check the diff to see what you edited because you don't leave a summary. I believe most editors like to scan their watchlists and see at a glance what edits were made to various articles, myself included. Thanks --Mus Musculus 03:51, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I do leave them but not for minor edits because I feel the minor tag leaves the point rather well. --Djsasso 03:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, okay. The problem is, you don't always tag them as minor. Going back through your edits to April 4, many of them are not marked as minor and you only left summaries on a handful. If you don't want to do it, or can't remember, it's no big deal - after all, it's certainly not a "rule" - I'm just asking for the consideration. Thanks! --Mus Musculus 04:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Oh I didn't mean to sound rude if I came across that way. It tends to just be me forgetting when I am doing repetitious edits. I certainly don't try and make life hard :) --Djsasso 04:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Carolina Hurricanes 2006 Stanley Cup Team

Thanks! :) I hadn't seen the other 2. Darn eyes! :) --WoohookittyWoohoo! 07:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Stanley Cup AfDs

Have you considered prodding these articles as opposed to listing them at AfD? It seems to me that it is unlikely they will be contested. Apologies if there is a reason why you've taken them to AfD. Adambro 17:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Probably cause I was never fully clear on how to prodding worked. I will do that for the rest of them. I think I misunderstood that when you prod'd you then moved them to afd but I was just reading about this just before you messaged me and realized they just have to sit there for 5 days so I think I will prod the rest. Thanks. --Djsasso 17:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay sure, it should just make it a more straightforward process for you. Regards. Adambro 17:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

HÃ¥kan Andersson reply

I'll see what I can do, it would most likely still be a stub but maybe a few more lines and some refrences. --Krm500 22:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Deleting of pro clubs in infoboxes

Just wanna ask why ya have deleted the European pro clubs in the infoboxes I have created. Kaiketsu 21:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Because the standard is to only list the clubs of the highest level of hockey reached. --Djsasso 21:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
"Highest level"? And that is apperntly the NHL and the WHA as far as you are concerned. A quick check at the IHPinstructions states that: league: (use abbreviation. ie: RSL or SEL or NHL. If league name is relatively short, you can use the full name. ie: SM-liiga. Infobox WILL flex to accommodate the name) and played_for: (pro teams a retired player played for. Enter FULL NAME of teams). Now..that is for retierd far as active says that: Use for other teams the player played for in his CURRENT that would mean Jörgen Jönsson's NHL record would have to be deleted since he is currently playing for his 2nd club in Elitserien and not the NHL. Kaiketsu 09:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes that just explains how to put them in, not what goes in them. Except in the case of current players which yes I did make a mistake on that one player. And its not just me when it comes to stating the WHA and the NHL are the highest leagues.--Djsasso 13:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

What goes in them? I don't see a set standard for the that. Yeah the NHL is THE far as money and prestige is concerned. That doesn't take away the fact that the clubs in Russia, Sweden, Finland, the Czech Rep., Switzerland and so forth are professional ice hockey clubs and not amateur ones. They should be regarded as such. That would be like saying that Major League Soccer is worth nothing because the big money is in European football. So I'm gonna continue and recognize them since hockey is not exclusivly an NHL affair. Kaiketsu 15:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It's in one of the talk pages for the project. I don't disagree that hockey is not exclusively an NHL affair, however skill wise, the NHL is the top whether we like it or not. It may change over time with the strengthening of Europeon leagues like the RSL. The reason we don't list every team in the info box is for standardization. You just list the highest level in the info box and you list the rest in the article as the infobox is intended to be a summery. --Djsasso 15:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Non-Notable people engraved on the Stanley Cup

Now I realize that winning the cup for a player is a very notable thing. However, maybe its just me but I think its a bit over kill to have every person engraved on the cup listed on wikipedia. That being said I don't mean we should leave off players who won it. I think every player who won it should be on here. Its the "staff" members for lack of a better term that I think is a bit of over kill. The trainers and the physical therapists. A good example and the one that finally put me over the top with thinking I should seek others opinions would be Art Cayford. I mean exactly what kind of info are we going to ever have in an article about the secretary-treasurer of a team? I think it would be fine to have a list of some sort to list these people. But not completely seperate articles. --Djsasso 06:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I very much disagree with this! I think they should stay on the list!! My brother Chris Huffine (Video Coach) won the cup last year in 2006 with the Carolina Hurricanes becoming the first North Carolina native to ever win and have his name etched on Lord Stanley's Cup!! I feel this has some North Carolina Sports historical significance, plus, these guys work just as hard as anyone to win the Cup just ask the players, coaches and management! It's definitely a team effort! If your on the Cup, your on the Cup no matter who you are!! How would you feel if someone in your family had worked very hard for 15 years and a dream comes true only to be be taken off Wikipedia?? Can someone tell me how to keep my brother's info. on the Wiki site?? It's due to go off by 4-29-07 if it's not changed?? This is my first time on the site! I'm very new at this and don't really understand the protocol yet... Thanks!!

I don't doubt he worked hard to get what he got. But there are very strict guidelines on to who does and does not make it onto Wikipedia. If there weren't then every joe schmo could get onto the site. Unfortunately your brother does not meet those standards. That being said, we aren't removing his information off the site, we are just presenting it in another way. He will still be on wikipedia. --Djsasso 23:19, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

People engraved on the Stanley Cup


I noticed you've started to delete many of my articles. you said that the one that pissed you off the most was Art Cayford. The reason that I created an article for him was that the 1926 Maroons where the first team to engrave the names of their front office staff on the Stanley Cup. Is that not an important enough moment in Stanley Cup History. Without trainers and other staff member's the players would never survive the grind of the Stanley Cup playoff's in order to win the Stanley Cup. I did a lot of research on people such as Paul Boyer (Detroit Red Wings trainer), G.E. Walker (Toronto Maple Leafs Head scout), and Nick Garen (Chicago Blackhawks trainer). I don't see the harm in leaving these articles standing. Could you please Detail your argument for me. I can't help but take it a bit personally.

Thanks, Michael Drew 21:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't intend this to be anything personal but a person needs to be notable to be on Wikipedia. Having your name on the Stanley Cup doesn't make you notable in and of itself. Atleast not to the point of having your own article. For people such as this we create lists because there is never going to be enough information to fill up an article on such people. I do agree that their efforts are important in some respects but not to the point of having their own articles. I would more than happily support you if created an article called something along the lines of List of Non-players engraved on the Stanley Cup. There may be a better way to name it but an article like that would be much better than individual articles on each staff member. As you can see by that discussion I am not the only one who feels this way or those articles would not have been deleted. As far as Art Cayford for example, yes that team was the first team to do so, so what you would do is put that fact in the article about the Montreal Maroons and mention those peoples names, but you would not create articles for them. --Djsasso 21:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

So we disagree on some things, but ...

Barnstar-goldrun7.png The Running Man Barnstar
For your hard work in keeping us informed on hockey-related deletion topics, a pretty thankless task!  RGTraynor  01:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Joffre Desilets

Hello. I noticed you recently removed a 'refimprove' tag I placed on Joffre Desilets. I believe this was unnecessary, since the article does not include full citations for its sources, as requested in WP:CITE. Please do not remove the tag until you have solved the problem. Yours truly, BoricuaeddieTalk • Contribs • Spread the love! 21:21, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

You might want to take a look at the page again. There was a reference there that is approved as a reliable source. I admit the heading of the source was misleading so I have fixed it. But it is there. --Djsasso 21:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Hello. This is a reply to your comment on my talk page. I put refimprove tags on those articles because they do not include full citations, as requested in WP:CITE. I am not doubting the reliability of the sites, I'm just alerting people that they are not properly and fully cited following the format presented in WP:CITE. Please see the link provided for the Wikipedia policy before posting further comments on my talk page. Thank you. Yours truly, BoricuaeddieTalk • Contribs • Spread the love! 23:06, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Full citations are just a type of citation. They are not the only kind of citation. Webpages for example don't fall into the format of full citations but are just as good. --Djsasso 23:11, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
I've checked WP:CITE. It says, "All citation techniques require detailed full citations to be provided for each source used." This includes embedded html links. Also, if you look at WP:CITE#Embedded_HTML_links, it says, "A full citation is also required in the References section." Yours truly, BoricuaeddieTalk • Contribs • Spread the love! 23:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
You are correct, when its an article you are citing such as a news story. When you are citing the page itself you cannot do a full citation as you would not have the author etc. --Djsasso 23:23, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I think I have an idea on how to do the full citation. I will look for a sheet I received during my participation in the National INTEL Science Fair. The sheet includes information on how to cite sources when the author of the work is not stated. If you would like me to do this, please post your response on my talk page and I will post my full citation idea for the article here. Of course, I will not be able to do it today. Thank you. Yours truly, BoricuaeddieTalk • Contribs • Spread the love! 23:34, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
As you will see here. Just linking the page at the bottom is adequate. Now this particular link is specific to movies but the standard is for all webpages and article types. --Djsasso 00:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for providing the link. I had not seen that guideline. I'm sorry if I caused you any trouble. Yours truly, BoricuaeddieTalk • Contribs • Spread the love! 00:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation for hockey player pages

Hey Djsasso. I want to do a page on the former hockey player Scott Fraser, but of course there is another Scott Fraser already on Wikipedia. I want to make a Disambiguation page, and I looked up the info on how to make one, but I must be dumb, because I can't seem to find out how to start one. I know what to write and everything, I just can't seem to understand how to start with a blank page and go from there (and make links to that disambiguation page). I'd like to make one like the Floyd Mayweather disambiguation page. I'd also like to make a disambiguation for Jim Montgomery. Could you possibly help me? Your one of the only wikipedians I've chatted with and like. Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Basstastic (talk • contribs) 19:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

Sorry, forgot to sign my comment.Basstastic 19:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I started it for you however I will explain it to you for next time. All you have to d.o is a "Move" of the existing page to a new disambiguated page. In this case I moved Scott Fraser to Scott Fraser (politician). At which time I then edited Scott Fraser to have links to the two different Scott Frasers. Naming standard for hockey personnel is Scott Fraser (ice hockey). So if you want to create a page for him now all you will have to do is click on the red link and start your editing. --Djsasso 21:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh and I forgot. Make sure you go to all the pages that link to the original and point them to the new one that they should point to. I have already done it for Scott Fraser. Sometimes you find out there are other people named that through doing this as well. Like in this case it turns out there is a third one involved in the music industry. --Djsasso 21:34, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Much appreciated!Basstastic 23:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format page

I've amended the opening paragraph of the notability standards section again. You stated in earlier discussions that "we are not using these as notability guidelines to decide whether to delete articles, we are using these as notability guidelines to CREATE articles", and "Its a guideline for people to use when creating articles who are part of this wikiproject". Considering what you've expressed earlier, I hope the new opening paragraph is acceptable. If not, well, I guess we'll keep discussing to come to a compromise. ColtsScore 16:24, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah this way is better than your last edit. --Djsasso 18:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


If you ever accidentally create a page and need it deleted, you can use {{db-author}} to speedy it. Cheers! — Scientizzle 00:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks...I knew there was a template for it but couldn't for the life of me remember it.--Djsasso 00:55, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Marguerite Norris


You seem to have redirected a page I created on Marguerite Norris. She is notable in that she was the first female executive in the NHL. Not just the first woman on the cup as stated on the Stanley Cup article. Does that not make her notable ? The Notability standards for ice hockey players do not say anything about executives.

I'd Appreciate more clarification. Thanks, Michael Drew 02:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

talk: 2007 Stanley Cup Finals

You may have to redirect the talk page aswell. GoodDay 18:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, didn't think of that. --Djsasso 18:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Randy Carlyle

Please note that the undisambiguated title "Sudbury" is not an article about the city in Ontario. For that article, you can link to Sudbury, Ontario, Greater Sudbury, Ontario or Greater Sudbury, but not to just "Sudbury", because that's a disambiguation page. Bearcat 00:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I even realized I took the Ontario out....I totally just meant to put |Sudbury next to what was already there as we usually do. I must not have been paying as much attention as I should have. --Djsasso 00:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


Hi Djsasso, I've noticed on a few of your edits that you've added "(dab)" in the edit summary. I was just wondering what it meant? --JD554 10:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguate. --Djsasso 13:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Creating a page and becoming an editor

I was wanting to know how you managed to get your symbols on there... and also, I want to be one of those supervisors who watch for vandalism and stuff. TheWikiVigilante 18:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Stanley Cup

Why did you revert my A-Class assessment of the article? You didn't provide much of an edit summary (only revert). Evilclown93(talk) 20:10, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Ack totally didn't mean to revert that page. :) Was looking at it while I was fixing other vandalism. Reverted my own revert. :) --Djsasso 21:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
It's not a big deal : ) Evilclown93(talk) 00:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Wade Redden

One of my edits to Wade Redden was reverted because you believed it to be non constructive. Wikipedia is, last time I checked, a place for factual information and, while it may not be constructive, the fact is that Redden is a turnover machine. 01:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes but until you can back that up with a source its not factual. --Djsasso 07:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Are you an Ottawa Senators fan? If you are, and if you have watched a lot of games, that's a pretty clear source. 13:39, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
But not good enough for an encyclopedia. That would be considered Point of View which can't be used on Wiki. --Djsasso 17:36, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Why do you keep reverting my edits?

One of my edits to the Anaheim Ducks page keeps on being reverted! I want proven testimony that proves people like being ignorant of the fact that THE FREAKIN DUCKS ARE THE... you listening?... CURRENT STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS! TheWikiVigilante 14:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Anaheim Ducks

Your recent re-edit of a change regarding mention of the movie (where I put kids vs teens)...then you should edit the movie page while you are at it...since it mentions "peewee" hockey. Peewee hockey, as you might not know, are not in the teenaged years. They are, in fact, 11-12 year olds. So, either the movie screwed up, the wiki article on the movie is wrong, or you are mistaken. Ccrashh 23:19, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

As a follow up...a quote from the movie: "Now imagine, sir, being ten years old and stepping out onto that ice...with old copies of the " Enquirer" aped to your shins instead of pads. The point I'm trying to make, sir, s that you wouldn't be taken seriously and neither are these kids." Note the operative age: 10 years old. I think you are mistaken about their ages and might want to have another look at the film. Ccrashh 23:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
The whole point of one of the films was them going to a brand new private high school. Which just happens to be the same Minnesota highshool that Sydney Crosby went to though they used a fictional name in the movie. --Djsasso 04:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello Djsasso. Perhaps I'm overreacting, however IrisKawling has twice within a week, added visiable diacritics to the Ducks page (apparently ignoring my objections). I've pointed out the gentlemens agreement to him (diacritics at player pages, no diacritics at NHL pages). Perhaps he'll listen to you, could you explain things to him. We don't need another 'diacritics' dispute, on our hands. GoodDay 18:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the misunderstanding, has been settled. GoodDay 19:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

One of my edits to the Anaheim Ducks page keeps on being reverted! I want proven testimony that proves people like being ignorant of the fact that THE FREAKIN DUCKS ARE THE... you listening?... CURRENT STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS! - TheWikiVigilante

Because this is an encyclopedia you have to try and avoid using terms that are current because you then have to change it at the end of the year. There is a reason this is the standard version of how things are mentioned in articles. --Djsasso 15:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Makes sense... I still think that the word "current" should be on there somewhere, but I dont make the rules ... TheWikiVigilante 15:36, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Djsasso on this. However, I should point out that the opening paragraph for the St. Louis Cardinals mentions them being the defending World Series champions. I don't want to start editing articles I am not currently active in, but thought I should point it out. Ccrashh 02:55, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I'm not a baseball editor so I won't be changing that but from an overall standpoint in general you need to try and avoid placing extra emphasis on current events. --Djsasso 05:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I get the point.... You will get no more interference from me... all I ask is that you get rid of all my quotes on here cause Ive realized i was being a jerk... please take off my comments. Thank you. - TheWikiVigilante 07:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Stat table

I was going to post this at WP:HOCKEY but it's lagging for me so I'll post it here so at least you can see it. I put the darker shade in some stats in my sandbox to show what they might look like. The first one is the current shade with cellpadding set to 1, second is darker shade with cellpadding set to 1, and the third one is darker shade with cellpadding set to 0. You've probably already seen how it looks for yourself, but I wanted to show you just incase. BsroiaadnTalk 18:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I think that works. We could definitely do that.--Djsasso 22:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Alright, cool. Would cellpadding=0 be ok if we used that darker shading as well or should cellpadding=1 be used anyway? BsroiaadnTalk 23:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
0 would be find with the darker shade cause the darker shade is better at keeping your eye following along. --Djsasso 01:19, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Calgary Flames

If you disagree with WikiProject Ice Hockey's new policies (no diacritics on North American hockey pages), bring your views there (at WikiProject Ice Hockey). Let's avoid 'edit wars'. GoodDay 22:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't disagree with the agreement. But the agreement was for player names. Place names is a world wide standard and not even a wiki thing. Country names, city names, river names etc etc keep diacritics in English. --Djsasso 22:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
The policy says 'name' (not player name or place name). North American hockey pages (no diacritic) and Non North American hockey pages (diacritics). It's for consistancy. GoodDay 22:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Then you changed it cause the discussion was never about place names. It was always about player names. Cause I will never agree to place names losing them cause that's completely incorrect even from an English standpoint. --Djsasso 22:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Again, bring it up at WikiProject Ice Hockey (if you want a review of the policies) it's your right. However, if the majority prefer to keep 'all' diacritics off North American Hockey pages, you'll have to abide by it. I'm certain, you don't want another diacritics stalemate. I'm certain you'd be upset, if diacritcs were removed from Non-North American Hockey pages. You see, it's has to be 50-50 (a balance). Personally, I'd love to remove 'diacritics' from ALL pages on English Wikipedia. But, I've chosen the compromise route. In order to get something, you must give something. GoodDay 23:05, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
But you aren't understanding. The agreement both sides came to involved just player names. You monkied with the agreement when you posted it. Place names on all of wikipedia always have diacritics and not just wikipedia in any atlas or map printed in english. Obviously I am not the only one who thought that place names were to have diacritics or other users wouldn't have reverted those edits as well. --Djsasso 23:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I've tried to help out, both sides of the diacritics dispute. Tried to keep the peace. Tried to be a compromiser and now I'm being threatened with the 3RR rule. I requested, you take your differences to the talk page of WikiProject Ice Hockey, instead you autocratically changed the policies. Guess, this is what I get for trying to help pro-diacritic editors. Thanks, with that suggested threat, I completely 'wash my hands' of the diacritics usages debates. You may add diacritics everywhere on all hockey page (if you want). Good luck. PS- no hard feelings, honestly (I'm just disallusioned). GoodDay 23:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
The 3RR warning, won't be neccessary. GoodDay 23:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I want you to know this is nothing personal. It's just the discussion that went on with the wiki project was about player names. I am willing to compromise as we have on player names because its only insulting to one person. But when you start doing it to a country name or a city name you are insulting whole groups of people. And I wouldn't have reported you anyway, you just got my ire up with the un-wikipedian comment and I typed before I thought clearly. --Djsasso 23:42, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I know it's not personal Djsasso. But again, goodluck (Ps- I've left 'swan song' messages at the WikiProject Ice Hockey page and WikiProjec Ice Hockey/team pages). I'm just tired (of the bickering), my friend. GoodDay 23:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

UNSC, moves, etc.

Fair enough I am familiar with the common names standard, but why would the article be at National Football League when the more common name is NFL? If that is the case, why would that standard no be incorporated into, for instance, "List of NFL/National Football League head coaches?" I don't know where you want to carry on this discussion, but I won't watch your talk page unless you want me to. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 03:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Page length True, but that's why redirects exist and work. I imagine that literally 95% of searches for the major league football organization are "NFL" and they redirect to "National Football League" quite easily. The same would be true of "List of NFL head coaches." As an aside, I'm going to bed now, so I'm not ignoring you, if you immediately post on my talk. I'll probably be free sometime tomorrow. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 04:11, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of prod from Maxim Mayorov

In a roundabout way I removed your prod tag from the article on Maxim Mayorov. I was in the process of removing it when an admin deleted the page, and at the time I was logged in anonymously from a public terminal that I didn't trust, so I couldn't just recreate it from what I had in my edit window without logging in, which I didn't want to do from there. I asked the admin to restore the page.

It would seem to me that playing for the Vysshaya Liga would meet WP:BIO's requirements for notability. I'm certainly not an expert in Russian Hockey, though, so I could easily be convinced otherwise. - Fordan (talk) 02:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I do see where you are coming from, however the Vysshaya Liga is only a minor league and is not Russia's highest league. As such he currently does not meet Hockey Player Notability. It is possible he does become notable if he eventually becomes a regular in the Russian Superleague or the National Hockey League however at the moment he is only a 4th round draft pick which is a long shot at best of ever becoming a notable hockey player. --Djsasso 04:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

American/Canadian spellings

Don't know if you are aware of this or not, but American players should definitely use American spellings (such as Freddy Meyer). Also, Europeans who never played for a Canadian team who are not from Canada require American spellings (such as Kjell Samuelsson). When it comes to a player from Canada who only played on an American team or a player from America who played on a Canadian team, it gets a little hazy, but generally I thought it was best to rely on what the original editor used. In these cases, you have often changed the spellings, usually without bothering to note it. -- 02:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Some of that is correct while some of it is not. The only country in the world that uses that spelling is the US. Therefore Europeans would use the non-us spelling just like Canadians. As far as hockey players are concerned it was decided a long time ago to avoid these types of edit wars to use the spelling which the highest award a player can achieve for the position uses, The Norris Trophy. On its inscription it uses the defenceman spelling. It's usually not noted because its a non-issue minor cleanup to fall in line with all the other articles. There are strong arguments on both sides of the issue. Some people argue the game was invented in Canada therefore defenceman fits...some say a player born in the us should get defenseman....some say a canadian player on an american team should get defenseman....some say an american on a canadian team should get you see where I am going? Its just easier to go by the spelling used by the highest award.--Djsasso 01:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
I understand. There are some flaws in basing the Wikipedia-wide spelling on a trophy, however. Take goaltenders for instance. I can't say for sure what the inscriptions say on the Vezina and Jennings trophies, but at the NHL's website goaltenders are listed as goalkeepers. [1][2] Of course, the 2007 winner section below the trophy description uses goaltender, but it still begs the question: Since blueliners are referred to as Defenceman based on the inscription on the Norris trophy, shouldn't goaltenders be referred to as Goalkeepers (assuming that is the inscription on the Vezina)? -- 01:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
There is a difference in that the reason we went that way was to avoid edit wars that continuously happen. This does not happen with Goaltenders. Atleast not very often. It was a compromise so to speak. --Djsasso 16:11, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, the compromise works. GoodDay 17:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

You wouldn't happen to have a source proving that the Norris Trophy's inscription uses the Canadian spelling, would you? Everywhere I search yields, "to the defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-around ability in the position." -- 00:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Ice Hockey August 2007 Newsletter

WikiProject Ice Hockey Newsletter

Dear Djsasso/Archive 1! You are receiving this newsletter because you have signed up as a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. The purpose of this newsletter is to update on the goings on of the project, as there have been major changes, and a lot of new recognized content in the past few weeks. If you are an inactive user, you probably won't recognize the new and improved state of the WikiProject!

From the project, Maxim.

New recognized content

By Maxim
There have been a lot more Good and Featured articles written in the past few weeks. Here is a list:[1][2][3][4]

Featured articles
Good articles
Featured lists[5]
  1. ^ All articles are in order of promotion, as written on the main WikiProject page; FA's have official dates of promotions.
  2. ^ A star represents a featured article or list
  3. ^ A green circle represents a good article
  4. ^ Stanley Cup is an A-Class article
  5. ^ The lists system differs from articles, and doesn't give an official date of promotion
Article Improvement

By Maxim

Upon some discussion on the WikiProject talk page, the Article Improvement Drive page was revamped by Krm500 and Maxim. It was renamed Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Article Improvement, and it includes two section. The first section is called articles in dire need of improvement. It list articles, usually important, that are in very poor shape. The second section is called requested help. Users list an article they request help improving a certain article, which will facilitate collaboration, which is the aim of any WikiProject. There is one article currently listed there, Henrik Lundqvist, here. The goal is to at least get it to Good article status.


By Maxim

In the past few weeks, there has been quite heated discussion about the use of diacritics in article name. The current guideline is using diacritics in the pages of articles of all player names which require them, but redirects are exempt.

Task forces

By Maxim
There have been two new task forces started within the WikiProject to coordinate major topics.

Sweden Ice Hockey task force

This task force was initiated by Krm500. Its current goal is to improve Henrik Lundqvist to Good or Featured article status. It covers all Swedish clubs, leagues and competitions and associated articles, players and coaches that are Swedish, or have played/coached for a Swedish club, and arenas in Sweden. They plan to eventually operate as a sort of a sub-project, which will have its own articles for creation, ranking importance and quality of articles, and co-ordinate article improvement. Its current members are Krm500, Bamsefar75, and CLAES.

New Jersey Devils task force

This task force was initiated by Bsroiaadn. Its goal is to improve New Jersey Devils to Featured Topic status. Although it currently meets the required article count, the task force wishes to improve it further. Its area of coverage is very similar to the Sweden Ice Hockey task force. Its members are Bsroiaadn, JHMM13, FutureNJGov, Sportskido8, Michael Greiner, JRWalko, and Soxrock.

Requested Images

By Maxim
After discussion on the WikiProject talk page, Serte created a page for Requested Images. The page encourages users to license images for use on articles. The page also has section to request images for players, arenas, game situations, miscellaneous, and team and league logos. The page has been quite popular; since it was created on July 21, there have been six completed requests. There are four currently outstanding requests:

Article assessement completed

By Maxim
On July 12, Kaiser matias announced that he had completed assessing all the articles with a {{ice hockey}} tag, sorting them into Category:Unassessed Ice Hockey articles. Kaiser matias has ranked about 9000 articles in that category, and most were stubs, and "have no information at all", according to him. Everybody is encouraged to expand the stubs into real articles. This effort took around 5 months. A big thanks goes to Kaiser matias from me and all the project.

Note: You have received this newsletter because you have added your name here. If you wish to no longer receive this newsletter, please remove your name. From the automated Animum Delivery Bot (delivered on 18:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)).


Your recent posting about the Arbitration Committee, intrigued me. You seemed to suggest an AC ruling (if against you), wouldn't be respected? GoodDay 20:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

No thats not what it meant at all. I meant that the Arbitration Committee isn't used to create new policy. They just enforce old policy. For example if you are having an edit war with another user for example. I'll go with whatever consensus is reached. --Djsasso 20:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Hold it, let's not start a war about the AC's purpose. Back to Diacritics. There are 'pro-English' editors willing to compromise on the Euro NHL bio articles titles. Indeed Krm500 (a pro-diacritic) editor, offered a compromise (which wasn't given a chance). Why won't you 'pro-diacritics' accept compromise in this dispute. Why do you 'pro-diacritics' editors prefer the bickering over a compromise? 20:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
To be quite honest I agree with his compromise which was the compromise that was decided on a year or two ago. Most of us let this issue drop a long time ago. Which is why Nitty's page had diacritics in the title and not in the article. This issue was dead a long time ago but every so often someone comes and tries and argue it again and all the fuss starts back up again. --Djsasso 20:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
What was the problem then, with adding that compromise idea to the Wikipedia: WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format? Your fellow 'pro-diacritic' editors, rejected it. Their argument was WikiProjects had no authority over articles. GoodDay 21:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Those 'pro-diacritic' editors in question, were 'Elisson' & 'coeLacan'. GoodDay 21:19, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I must have missed where they said don't put it up there because all I see is them arguing their side of the arguement. Heck I even see Elisson trying to come up with a compromise. But the reason its not on the format page is cause no one truely agrees so there is no true concensus only compromise so thus it doesn't get put up. --Djsasso 21:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I guess each Euro NHL player article will decide its own title, there no way around it. If this flairs up again (if?), would the Mediation Committee be the answer? PS- I won't start the next fire. GoodDay 21:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Part of me knew that. I was just getting carried away with my work. Will go through it more carefully now. Thanks for the heads up. Kaiser matias 17:33, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The NHL official team websites alone, should be enough to convince you. PS- why are you suggesting (indirectly) that I'm a 'control freak'. I thought we agreed, this wouldn't be personal. Your discription of me, really hurt. GoodDay 21:53, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

But again you are still missing the point. Wikipedia as a whole has already decided this issue. And that diactritics are to stay on place names unless there is an english translation. Roma to Rome for example. Just removing diacritics is not a transalation. I am not attacking you but really you do need to let this topic go. The fact that there was as much a compromise as there is took 3 years or so to get to, be happy it got that far. --Djsasso 21:04, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter anymore, it's over. I already (hours earlier) accepted this fact - diacritics will never be hidden/removed entirely from the NHL team pages-. Yes I'm happy to have gotten the concessions I did (reaching 99% of my goal). Someday, extreme pro-diacritic editors will try to re-introduce dios through all the NHL pages. Sadly, not even moderates (like you and Krm500) will be able to stop it. Should that ever occur, I wish you well in defending our work. PS- no hard feelings Dj. GoodDay 22:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Plus, I'll continue (from time to time) help keep dios 'hid' on 'player names' and help keep dios 'shown' on 'place names'. Again, sorry 'bout my hysterical behavour. GoodDay 22:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello WikiProject Ice Hockey/Participant

I am an advisor to the National Hockey League. With your help over the next few months I plan to review and correct any information on wikipedia relating to the National Hockey League, its franchises, players, executives and partership organisations. I am here to provide you with information. Your work is appreciated. --NHLsource 18:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Manchester United F.C. seasons

I notice you voted "Keep" in the FLRC for Frölunda HC seasons. Considering your reasons for that vote, can I ask you to perhaps comment on the FLC for Manchester United F.C. seasons? - PeeJay 17:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Northern League

Ok thats fine but why did you remove the examples of the salary cap? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TelusFielder (talkcontribs) 02:50, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

If you click on the history and look at what your edit looked like you will see. It made a mess of the page. You might want to try a table or something like that if you wish to add the information. --Djsasso 02:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Ottawa Senators Roster template

Is there a good reason to remove the Sens' roster templates? Someone else added it on the Ray Emery article so I just added the templates on several article containing Senators players too. After all, it makes for a half decent see also. --Hasek is the best 13:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe I put the reasoning on the first one I reverted, but got lazy after that. But the reasoning is that we don't put roster templates on individual players because it makes for a messy page. Roster templates are only used on team related pages and season pages. --Djsasso 14:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

What's your deal??

Man, what's your beef with junior hockey players and deleting stuff just for fun? They're on official franchises, they have fans, stats, cards, etc etc. I think that's pretty noteable. I wasn't aware that Wikipedia was running short of space :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradn87 (talkcontribs) 18:05, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

There are official levels of notability a player must reach in order to be considered notable for inclusion on wikipedia. Hockey player notability. Websites like [] are for all players. --Djsasso 18:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Calgary Wikipedia meetup

Just a reminder that the Calgary Wikipedia meetup is this Sunday, 2pm, at Haymarket Café (1101 Macleod Trail SE). —GrantNeufeld 03:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

With the municipal election coming up, I figured it would be good to have another local meet of Wikipedia contributors in Calgary. This would be a chance to chat about Wikipedia stuff in general, but also to discuss ways to cover the election on Wikipedia. I’m suggesting next week, at a location (TBD) in the downtown area. If you’re interested in participating, please vote on when you’d like to schedule the meet. Thanks. —GrantNeufeld 22:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Stat tables format

Hello, I noticed you change the structure of the stat tables such as Daniel Alfredsson. The proper structure is on the WP:HOCKEY player page format. You can change the active one if you want to, go ahead, the yours on there (with the thinner rows) but I'd discuss it first. I'd just like to know why you prefer it. Thanks. --Hasek is the best 03:41, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

It was the consensus that was reached on the wikiproject. All players stats are being moved to this format. The reasoning behind it was so that people did not have to scroll as much when reading stats. --Djsasso 07:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Huh, well before that can happen a lot of statistics need to be completed...I'll do some today using the changed format. --Hasek is the best 14:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Deprodded Andre Chabot

I have removed the {{prod}} tag from Andre Chabot, which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. I have nominated the article for deletion instead; the debate may be found at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andre Chabot, which overrides the need for a {{prod}} tag. I have explained my reasons for doing this in my nomination. Thanks! UsaSatsui 00:15, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Edmonton Oilers

Look at the article more closely. Dont you know how messed up the page looks?

The Edmonton Oilers are a professional ice hockey team based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. They are members of the Northwest Division of the Western Conference of the National Hockey League (NHL). When playing against their arch rivals, the Calgary Flames, the matches are often referred to as the Battle of Alberta.

The Oilers are the northernmost team in North American professional sports. Edmonton is located above 53 degrees north latitude.

Everyone knows that Edmonton is the largest northern city in North america. A sports page can't have where the city is located. Do any of the other NHL team pages have where they are located latitude wise? Or how about ANY of the sports pages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TelusFielder (talkcontribs) 03:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

This site is not only for people in this area that would know that. There are many people in the states or other english speaking countries that have no idea where Edmonton is. No other team page has such a unique fact like this so no none of them do but the Edmonton Oilers should. --Djsasso 05:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Now that looks better. Good to know you came to your senses. But the oilers aren't the north most franchise. What about the esks, Rush, Cracker-Cats? --(talk

In that case I will rewrite what it says to say of the 4 major leagues. --Djsasso 22:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Ottawa Senators

I've removed some of his 'linkage' edits (if he reverts it back, I'll leave it alone). He doesn't seem to include the St.Louis Eagles, in his -it's the same club PoV. Wow, it's like he's arguing every person with the same name, is the same person. PS- Yeah, I'm glad we're on the same side too. GoodDay 19:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

In a way I agree with him, but I think we have enough edits in place that show the links between the two teams so there is definately no reason to keep arguing really cause he won't be able to make any major changes anyways. Over time other editors will probably even edit out his linkage edits as tends to happen on wiki. --Djsasso 19:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Djsasso, I've removed the 'pre-1991' info from the TopInfobox (couldn't remain completely silent) - that info belongs at Ottawa Senators (original) and St. Louis Eagles. PS- We need creation of these articles Ottawa Senators (QSHL) and Ottawa Senators (OCHL), to handle the 'senior hockey' info. GoodDay 22:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
PS- if you have a source, for the NHL revocation of that certificate, would you show it to Alan? Perhaps, he'll then agree to reduce that 1884-1955 section to '1884-1935' (removing the senior-league Senators, which don't belong). GoodDay 22:20, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Nono I didn't mean they literally did it. I mean they did it through their actions. ie they declared the records separate etc. --Djsasso 23:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I haven't check up on the Senators 'edit history'; but I recall agreeing on 'briefly mentioning the reinstatement thing'. How did things develop to include all these other Senators clubs in the 'history section' (that wasn't a part of the agreement)?. Have I lost touch with events, so quickly? GoodDay 21:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello Djsasso. Is it just my imagination? Or is the Senators 'histoy section' becoming more bloated by the hour (it's getting rather lengthy). GoodDay 22:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I am just going to let him run out of steam I think then rewrite everything in condensed version. --Djsasso 23:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Yep Hockey in Ottawa seals the deal. In future, I'll keep an eye that Al keeps the Senators clubs seperate on that article. Thanks for ending the stalemate. GoodDay 14:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Will do. GoodDay 14:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


If Wikipedia is supposed to be the "free encyclopedia that anyone can edit", then why are you undoing all of my edits? I'm cleaning up these articles and removing unnecessary lines and asking for sources for things that need sourcing. Why is that so terrible? -- Sebby7 15:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not terrible in that the Red Hot video is valid in that article. Just because you don't like it there doesn't mean it doesn't belong there. --Djsasso 15:22, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Just because you like it, doesn't mean it belongs there. From what I've read, everything needs sources to prove notability, and the section has no sources. -- Sebby7 15:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
It belongs there because it was a noteworthy event not because I like it. It has received alot of media attention over the years. You don't just remove stuff because its missing citations. You go and find citations. --Djsasso 15:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Ice Hockey September 2007 Newsletter

WikiProject Ice Hockey Newsletter

Dear Djsasso/Archive 1! You are receiving as you are a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey There's been more new thing going on at WP:HOCKEY, and I think this will help you to stay informed. Since the last newsletter sent out in August, there's been great changes. Read on to find out! Maxim(talk)

This just in:
Maurice 'Rocket' Richard Trophy has just been promoted to featured list status, while the bot was delivering the newsletter. Maxim(talk) 02:02, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

And I've just promoted Art Ross Trophy. And Clarence S. Campbell Bowl is at FLC. This should be the last update. Maxim(talk) 00:40, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
New recognized content

By Maxim

Especially due to the featured topic drive, there have been many new featured lists promoted concerning NHL awards. Here's the full list of all the 13 FL's promoted since the last newsletter.[1][2]

  1. Featured article Hart Memorial Trophy
  2. Featured article James Norris Memorial Trophy
  3. Featured article Vezina Trophy
  4. Featured article Conn Smythe Trophy
  5. Featured article Frank J. Selke Trophy
  6. Featured article Lady Byng Memorial Trophy
  7. Featured article Lester B. Pearson Award
  8. Featured article Calder Memorial Trophy
  9. Featured article Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy
  10. Featured article King Clancy Memorial Trophy
  11. Featured article Jack Adams Award
  12. Featured article Presidents' Trophy
  13. Featured article List of Calgary Flames players

There have been no new good articles or featured articles. Maurice 'Rocket' Richard Trophy has been given A-Class status due to multiple issues raised at FLC.

  1. ^ The last one, List of Calgary Flames players, is the only one not associated with the featured topic drive.
  2. ^ At the time of publishing, there were 5 lists at WP:FLC and 2 lists in the "Holding cell", as there's been an accepted guideline to not put more that 5 trophy lists at the same time to, "compensate for the sanity of the reviewers".
Did You Know?

By Maxim
There have been 4 new articles featured in the Did You Know section? on the Main Page since August.

Featured Topic Drive

By Maxim

Started by User:Scorpion0422, the aim of this drive is to make NHL awards a featured topic. A featured topic is basically a set of very high quality articles (good articles and featured articles/lists). In this case, the topic is NHL awards. Many users have helped, including Scorpion0422, Resolute, Serte, Hasek is the best, Maxim, Croat Canuck, Spike Wilbury, FutureNJGov, and T Rex/Dinosaur puppy. The progress has been very good; there are 12 featured lists promoted, and 2 good articles:

  1. Featured article Hart Memorial Trophy (Scorpion)
  2. Featured article James Norris Memorial Trophy (Scorpion)
  3. Featured article Vezina Trophy (Scorpion)
  4. Featured article Conn Smythe Trophy (Serte)
  5. Featured article Frank J. Selke Trophy (FutureNJGov)
  6. Featured article Lady Byng Memorial Trophy (Scorpion)
  7. Featured article Lester B. Pearson Award (Scorpion)
  8. Featured article Calder Memorial Trophy (Croat Canuck)
  9. Featured article Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy (Maxim)
  10. Featured article King Clancy Memorial Trophy (Maxim)
  11. Featured article Jack Adams Award (Maxim)
  12. Featured article Presidents' Trophy (Scorpion)
  13. Stanley Cup (Earlier collaboration, very many involved)
  14. Traditions and anecdotes associated with the Stanley Cup (Maxim)

Check the project page if you are interested in helping out. Although it's closer to being done than not, there's still work to be done. The next topic that might be tackled is Stanley Cup, but this remains purely speculative and in discussion.

Note: You have received this because your name is on Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Newsletter/List. If you no longer wish to receive this message, remove your name. --Animum Delivery Bot 01:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Harry Ainlay

The calgary school has 2060 students listed in the 2007 year while Harry Ainlay has listed theirs at 2300. --TelusFielder —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 23:46, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Listed where is the issue, the fact that Western actually has a source backing up its claim overrides a claim with no source. If you have a sorce go ahead and remove it but I could not find a reliable source listing it as having more students. --Djsasso 19:09, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Vernon Barford

I was at the graduation and they announced it as the largest one in school history. This was last June so maybe its too late now to find a link because all the old info has been deleted. --TelusFielder —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 03:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Thunder Bay Twins

I am glad you made articles for the info you took away, that is good. Now, according to Official Game Puck the Fort William and Port Arthur franchises merged in 1970 with the amalgamation of the city of Thunder Bay to create the competitive Twins team that joined the USHL. Also, OGP says the Twins were the basis for the Thunder Hawks... and the name change and league change also correspond.... if there is no direct linkage listed (which I think there should be)... then there should at least be a reference to the Thunder Hawks and Twins on each others article. DMighton 00:39, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I definitely agree, I wasn't 100% positive about the teams merging so I just removed it till I could find a source, but sounds like you already did so definitely am cool with that being back in there. And yeah I can see a comment on being linked in a way in the articles. I am actually from Thunder Bay originally and I remember the Twins ending because they didn't feel they could compete with both the Thunder Hawks and the Flyers. However, thats just a memory and I have no sources at the to back that up. Definitely wasn't attacking your article creation or anything if I came off that way. I have been meaning to create these articles for a couple years now but never seem to get around to it. You just gave me the impetus to get going. --Djsasso 02:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I am from the Owen Sound area... a town called Durham, but live in Windsor at the moment. I have a deep rooted need to research obscure Junior, Intermediate, and Senior hockey history in Ontario... Thunder Bay is the hardest to get things on... although the NOHA really seems to tries to do worse. I am looking for history for the old Thunder Bay Junior A league, Senior A league, Junior B league (original and current)... and as well as the NSHL and International Jr. B league. I mostly search for standings. I'm glad you know that tidbit about the Twins and Thunder Hawks. In reality, I still think there should be a reference, even a mention of the Twins as a precursor to the Thunder Hawks -- I think that without the Allan Cup success of the Twins that you couldn't get a CoHL franchise in Thunder Bay. DMighton 03:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Definitely, if you can think of a good way to word that by all means add it into there. --Djsasso 04:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I worked hard on it all night. Fascinating team, I wish I had some of their Manitoba Sr. stats... but maybe I'll microfilm them in a couple months if I get time. If you got anything to add, go for it. Same with the Thunder Bay Flyers. DMighton 05:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

John Stewart

Could you please explain why alphabetising lists of people makes it "much easier to find who you are looking for". Dismabiguators vary wildly depending on who created the article and you would have to know what disambiguator has been used in order to use an alphabetical list. At least with a chronological list you may well have an idea when the person lived and where in the list they may be. -- Necrothesp 08:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

It is alot less likely that a person knows when their subject was born than the likely spelling of the person's page. I mean for example if I am looking for a ice hockey player named John Stewart, I am very unlikely to know when they were born but I do know that they are likely to be disambiguated by the word ice hockey and so I know to look for the letter i's for that or at the very worst an h just for hockey. Still alot easier than me fumbling for their birth year. --Djsasso 14:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
But you still know they were likely born in the 20th century. Wikipedia is not just a current biographical dictionary. -- Necrothesp 14:59, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I realize that, but that still doesn't narrow it down much. --Djsasso 15:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
It narrows it down far more than disambiguators do. Dates are facts; disambiguators are opinion. -- Necrothesp 15:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


Ok, I am sorry. I meant no contempt. I was just attempting to fill in the missing pieces. I was not trying to be difficult. I apologize. I am simply confused I guess. The W logo is what is found on their caps. They have the script on their uniforms, their site, and their merchandise, as well as the W logo. I figured that by putting the W one as the Cap logo, the infobox could be filled in. The script logo is obviously not the cap logo. I attempted to get the G logo from their road caps, but I have not been able to yet. Again I am sorry I really did not mean anything by it. I was simply trying to fill in the holes. --MJHankel 21:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

No worries, was just a bit frustrating everytime I tried to edit something new was there. It's all good I know you were just trying to fill the hole. Just make sure you add fair use rational when you upload photos or they get removed. A good template to use when doing so is what I use. Only really applicable to logos but you can change it around to fit other subjects. --Djsasso 22:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thunder Bay League

Do you remember much about the Thunder Bay Junior A Hockey League that folded in 1984? I know it changed its name the last couple years to the Hockey Thunder Bay League and included Senior teams... but do you know anything? Also, I'm looking for a good paper in the region that is known for covering their local leagues, especially their standings, know one? DMighton 03:16, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Not off the top of my head. I used to have a bunch of hockey programs from the USHL Flyer days that talked a bit about the old league but they are all back at my parents place. I live in Calgary now. The only paper in the region really would have been the The Chronicle-Journal. --Djsasso 03:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


I am not going to add anything else about this to the WProject page...It's probably confusing enough for whoever comes to read it. Thanks for explaining that to me though. I understand what you are saying. I just don't know why they cannot be in both categories, especially since the GMs are far more notable than the other executives, and there are a lot more articles on the GMs on Wikipedia. This is the reason I brought the question to the Project anyways, because I wasn't sure. Otherwise I just would have done it. - Rjd0060 05:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

And a side note, GO WINGS!!!! Sorry couldn't help it after seeing a Montreal and Calgary userbox on your userpage. - Rjd0060 05:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Obviously its just my opinion, but just thought I would point out the category was there since I stumbled upon the same thing you did a couple years back I believe and was like well why don't we use the GM category. They could definitely be in both, but the trend is to try not to duplicate categories. For example if you have a player listed in Category:Michigan Wolverines ice hockey players you wouldn't also put him in Category:University of Michigan alumni because its self evident and one is a subcategory of the other. But whatever the rest of the group decides is cool with me, I just happen to fix cats on articles alot so its something I figured I better chime in on. Haha yeah, we'll see how they are doing by the end of the year ;) --Djsasso 05:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Yea, either way is fine with me. See how they are doing at the end of the year, huh. Well, you should have plenty of time to watch Detroit games since Calg & Mont won't get (into) too far into the playoffs. ;) - Rjd0060 05:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
And I want to mention that I think (and hopefully everybody does) it is important that we achieve uniformity and consistency throughout the NHL Teams' pages. So we should make sure whatever is done, is done for them all. I am in the process of changing the NavBoxes, but I thnk you've already commented that on the project page. - Rjd0060 06:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


When you said "presidents" here did you mean NHL non-team-specific presidents, or the team presidents as well? Because in the case of Lou Lamoriello, he is the GM, team president, and team CEO of the New Jersey Devils.[3] I'm assuming you meant non-team-specific, but I just want to make sure. BsroiaadnTalk 07:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I meant presidents of teams in general. There will obviously be cases of players who are both positions and in that case two categories definitely makes sense should we go with a seperate GM category. --Djsasso 19:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


I've approved you to use AWB, per your request. SQL(Query Me!) 08:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Irish ice hockey players

Thanks for fixing the category. -RiverHockey 19:07, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment moved from userpage

Why did you can the added links to the Ice hockey page????? No mention of USA Hockey anywhere on Ice Hockey???? They only have 600,000 members.—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

USA hockey is already linked on there. What you are attempting to link is a hockey magazine which would be advertising and no it is not an allowable external link per WP:EL. --Djsasso 22:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

In Remembrance...

Rememberance DayLest We Forget.png

--nat Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?! 00:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


So, should players articles mention their country of birth or not ? Which is it ? When I add the country you remove it, when I remove it you put it back. Looks inconsistent to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

To quote someone else who posted on your last talk IP address.
"Anon user, Your edits to players country of origin aren't even consistent. e.g. if it's a Canadian player, this is the format to follow: in Grande Cache, Alberta) is a Canadian professional ice hockey player. Other countries such as Sweden will follow this: in Örnsköldsvik, Sweden) is a Swedish professional ice hockey player, note the first reference links to "Sweden" and the second to "Swedish people". Just trying to clear this up so you don't start edit wars. Thanks. IrisKawling 23:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)"
That should give you an example of what works and is consistant. --Djsasso 21:30, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Ah but it's not consistant : one has country while the other does not. Let's link first to "Canada" and then to "Canadian people", now that would be consistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:57, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Except Canadian people is not the same sort of article as Swedish people. It's just a redirect to the demographics page. The reason we use the above example is that it standardizes the opening line of hockey player articles. Of course not all articles have it at the moment as it is a large task to keep up with them all. --Djsasso 23:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
According to the manual of style for biographies, you shouldn't mention the birthplace in the first sentence (though exceptional cases are different). However, you should mention nationality. So "Sidney Crosby (born August 7, 1987) is a Canadian (link to Canada) ice hockey player..." is proper.-Wafulz 23:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I am not disagreeing with you Wafulz but I don't actually see where it says don't do that on the WP:MOSBIO. I know that Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) says you shouldn't entangle dates and birth places, however, I don't believe the above example entangles them as long a you put the word in between the date and the place. --Djsasso 23:41, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I always assumed it was implicit since none of the examples list the birthplace. Hanging around WP:FAC also convinced me that it was preferred to avoid that type of clutter in the opening line.-Wafulz 23:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Does make sense and I can totally agree with that. I've just been bitten by the don't assume bug before. But yeah I would prefer to have infoboxes on all players and just have the birthplace there but getting everyone converted is taking awhile. I mean we started 2 years ago converting players to infoboxes and still aren't there yet. --Djsasso 23:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Dick Mattiussi

I have a question about the catsort NPOV alpha order, it doesnt seem to make any sense, its not completely in alphabetical order (living people), the way I had it before listed pro teams in alphabetical order followed by nonpro teams in alphabetical order, rather than everything lumped together. Can you explain how the NPOV works? Thanks. -RiverHockey 14:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

NPOV is non-point of view. To sort it pretty much any other way is an opinion on how it should be sorted. Alphabetical is a fact. Alphabetical makes it easier for non-fans to find categories because they might not know the difference between pro and non-pro. And sorting based on significance like some people like to try is even worse because who is to say one cat is more significant than others. --Djsasso 14:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Removal of NYA external link

If you are going to remove that external link I added for the NYA uniforms because it doesn't meet some guideline, shouldn't you then remove a similar link on the Quebec Bulldogs page? That is where I got the idea from.Giantdevilfish 02:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Didn't see it on that page. But I will now. --Djsasso 04:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Tyler Johnson

I don't dispute the prod, but you say "when he plays professionally" -- I thought the minors _were_ professional?--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 18:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

WHL isn't the minors. It's amateur junior hockey played by teenagers. ie unpaid. --Djsasso 18:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
*light goes on* Ah! Ok. When I lived near Seattle, the distinction wasn't clearly made -- I didn't even pick it up at the one game I went to. The media talks about the Sonics, the Storm, and the T-Birds playing at Key Arena, with little-to-no indication of the difference.--uɐɔlnʌɟoʞǝɹɐs 18:35, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
It is considered a high level league as most NHL players come from it or one of its two sister leagues. However, the players in it haven't turned pro. It's the hockey equivalent (atleast in Canada) of the NCAA basketball or football I suppose except the teams aren't attached to school or anything like that. --Djsasso 18:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


No worries. I wasn't planning on doing the entire WHL or anything, but he seems to be fairly analagous to Doughty and Colten Teubert, who both have articles, so I hooked Schenn up. Leafschik1967 (talk) 22:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

You'd be surprised how many times we get someone who comes along and adds their entire favourite CHL team to the site. I knew you weren't doing it, I mostly just was posting you the link to notability cause I saw your comment on the talk page for Schenn. --Djsasso (talk) 23:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


Randy Andreachuk
Steve Bancroft
Don Gibson --Ulf17 (talk) 17:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

So then if you know that Canadian players should have Canadian spelling why are you so insistant on Philadelphia Flyers ones only having American spelling. I know you keep arguing that they have only ever played for an American team. But Bobby Clarke for example has played on the Canadian National Team which I would think would trump any NHL team he played for. --Djsasso (talk) 17:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I gave them those spellings because they played for Canadian teams. In the case of Bancroft I made the judgment that his being a Maple Leafs first rounder trumped his 6 NHL games with Chicago and San Jose. Regarding Clarke, he is the most famous Philadelphia Flyer and he is their greatest player. I believe him to be more identifiable with the Flyers than with Team Canada. Some may suggest otherwise and in such cases you rely on precedent, which happens to be Center for Clarke. --Ulf17 (talk) 18:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
However, precedent is that all people born in Canada get Non-American spelling because that is a NPOV way to do it. Deciding what trumps what is POV and should be avoided. --Djsasso (talk) 18:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Should Joel Otto and Craig Conroy use the American spelling even though they are most identifiable as Calgary Flames? --Ulf17 (talk) 18:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Yup they probably should if they don't already. --Djsasso (talk) 19:07, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
A request -- Dj will you indent your postings properly at Wikipedia talk: WikiProject Ice Hockey, please? They're blending in with mine. GoodDay (talk) 23:23, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I am indenting them properly. You two aren't. I am indenting one indent after his which is how you indent. If I was replying to you then I would indent twice. --Djsasso (talk) 23:24, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I've never heard of those indenting procedures (always something new for me to learn). Anyways, I'm gonna let the '2' of you figure things out (on the spelling) - more then two editors in a discussion can be confusing. GoodDay (talk) 23:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
It's all good. Indenting that way makes it easier to understand who you are replying to and to follow one thread of a conversation. Feel free to keep chiming in because if its only two people then nothing will ever get solved, as I am sure you are aware from the diacritics debate haha. --Djsasso (talk) 23:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Hockey Jersey Numbers in List Articles

I agree with the comment you made re: 1 game players (in the List of Blackhawk Players article), but I'm fairly certain the Blackhawk media guide is as accurate as possible in this regard. Plus, there's an independent website that has the same information (although it hasn't been updated since 1997), see here: [4].

The Hawk media guide is their official publication they produce annually so I would think the team historian would be able to verify all uniform or jersey numbers, even for players that have only played 1 game.

As an example, in the Hawk media guide they have listings for Wilf Culde and Tony Ahilen, both played in only 1 game in a Hawk uniform, but both have different listings. For Culde, they have his uniform as #1, but for Ahilen there's only a hyphen. I think that could be done for List Articles where the uniform number is unknown or can't be verified. --Ered7 (talk) 03:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

CASH line

It is amusing. A notable line with a non-notable nickname. :-) But, what kind of article title would Alfredsson-Spezza-Heatley line be? Could have been Dazzle or Dash! ROTFL Alaney2k 18:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you have missed the whole point of this arguement now that I read this comment. The NAME is what the article is about. Not the three players. This is why everyone is !voting against it. The line is just a part of the Ottawa Senators team, no different than any other top line on any other team. The name is what makes it different, however we are saying the name isn't notible enough to actually make it different than any other line. -Djsasso 18:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
There are many quotes about it being the top line in hockey, which is of course, debatable, but still they are being made. The name is it's name. CASH line could refer to a supermarket check-out. The article is certainly not about the name, but the line. No offense, but I think you have it the wrong way around, not I. Alaney2k 18:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Go and look at the opinons everyone has stated. They are all stating that the name CASH line is not notible as in no one outside of Ottawa knows who they are if you asked the average person. It's why there are not articles about every line that consisted of Mario Lemieux/Jaromir Jagr/Some Other Guy etc etc. This debate is very much about the name of the line and not the players. Which is why a number of people have said this article does not inherit notability from the players on the line. You are very much backwards on what this debate is about. If it were about the players on the line there would be an article for every line Gretzky ever played on, an article for every line Lemieux ever played on etc etc. But articles about lines like the Production Line etc are about the fact that it was a NAMED line. This is why people are telling you that the article needs to wait until the name CASH line is universally recognized outside of Ottawa. Not because the players aren't notible but because no one has a clue who the CASH line is if you asked them. -Djsasso 19:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
To follow that logic, then there should not be articles about hockey lines. And I would disagree about that. Naming of a line is suitable for a list article, but an article about a line and its history is encyclopedic, not its naming. In this case, each member has some notability on their own, but they have achieved true notability within this combination. Alfredsson brought some to the table, so did Heatley, but since the lock-out, since the line was together, a period of greater than 2 season, has been notable. Spezza would not be on a video game cover without this line. Your comment about 'average person'?. The average fan in several fan forums called it the top line in hockey. Alaney2k 19:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Again you are missing the point. We aren't arguing that it is not the top line in hockey, we are arguing that the entity known as the CASH line is not notible. An organization or a group does not acheive notiblity on its own just because its members or parts are notible on their own. If you ask someone litterally "Who is on the CASH line?" the majority of people outside Ottawa would not know who was on it. And yes most of us agree that hockey lines shouldn't have their own articles which is why we created the list. The only lines that should have articles are lines where people know exactly which players we are talking about when we say the name of the line. To argue that the line is notable based on its parts is a violation of WP:SYNTH which I believe you are already familiar with. -Djsasso 19:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I know you know the Wikipedia rules. Ask the average person about what is Wikipedia? Who are the top editors on Wikipedia? Would it do any better than CASH line? But at least you brought notability into it. That can make it clear. It's clear that line combinations of the Canucks is not notable enough and is a waste of space. But this line is notable. As you argued before, there are standards to get above the beer league for players -- they have to be at the top. That applies to this line. Reliable source are aware of the name. That's why I suggested the best thing to do is to define the guidelines first. Then we can work on editing, not debating. Alaney2k 20:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
The problem is that notibility is considered permanent, so once something has acheived notability then they can't unachieve it. 10, 20, 30, 50 years down the road will this line still deserve an article, will people still know who the CASH line was. It is far to early to say that as people now outside Ottawa do not know who the CASH line is. The reason the Production Line has an article is not because of how good the players on it were, because relatively speaking they weren't amazing players compared to many that have come since or even before them. They are remembered and notible because of the name they were given. This trio has to start collectively being known as the CASH line and sustain that recognition to earn a page on wikipedia. -Djsasso 20:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
The Production Line had Gordie Howe, Ted Lindsay, Sid Abel and later Delvecchio. All members of the HHOF. Numerous trophies earned while part of the line. The name could have been LAG for their acronyms, whatever, it wouldn't matter. It's the trio. In the context of hockey history, the line is notable. It led their team to championships. In their day, or today, I am sure that you could go to the average person and they would not know who was on that line. Alaney2k 20:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't mean to write the Production Line. I meant to write The Kid Line. We just have been using the production line as an example alot lately. The Production line is definately notible on its own, but I would disagree with you on the average hockey fan not knowing who was on that line. And before you say it yes they are all members of the hall of fame now, but again its the name that makes the line itself notible. -Djsasso 20:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Need your assistance, kind editor

Hi there Djasasso, I'm part of the Disambiguation pages with links project, basically what we do is find disambiguation pages and remove links that are supposed to go to other articles. A perfect example: If you click on assist, you will be led to a disambiguation page. The problem is, when someone wants to know what an "assist" is as it pertains to hockey (or soccer, or baseball or whatever), they have to continue to click to the right page. If a hockey article links to assist, it is technically linked incorrectly and has to be manually changed to assist (ice hockey). The "Career Statistics" box that the hockey wikiProject uses (I believe the links were added by User:Hasek is the best), has the letters GP,G,A,P, and GIM as links. The one for A needs to say "assists (ice hockey)" like the rest of them to get rid of the disam confusion. The disam page "assist" current has over 100 misapplied A links that are meant for hockey assists. Thanks for any assistance you can provide to fix this! Keeper | 76 21:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

No problem I will take a run through them tonight if I have a chance. -Djsasso 21:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I've been working on them too. The quickest way to stop the bleeding is to change the template in your discussion page for hockey players here. After that, it will take going back over the numerous pages that already use the new template. A list of articles that need fixin' (I'm working my way through these too) can be seen here (I realize not all of them are hockey, but you get the idea anyway). Thanks for your help! Keeper | 76 22:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I noticed you fixed the talk page! Much appreciated (the hole in the bucket is patched, now to drain the water)...happy editing to you, Keeper | 76 22:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, I think I've finished fixing the links to disam pages. If everyone uses the new template that you so kindly fixed, there shouldn't be any future problems. Thanks again for your attention, Keeper | 76 02:11, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Please review edit history.

I need a neutral third opinion at the Cape Breton Screaming Eagles article. Please review the edit history. Thanks. Flibirigit 16:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I would have to agree that, the information about the betting should definately go as its not apropriate on a team page. The information about the name should only be there if it can be sourced. If not it should be cut out completely as it is somewhat Trivial unless sourced. --Djsasso 16:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, please watch if it reappears. PS - I sent out a TFD on St. John's Fog Devils Roster. Flibirigit 16:34, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


Ah, okay. I guess 30 days is better then. -- Scorpion0422 04:01, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Flags on navboxes

Hi Djsasso, I've started a discussion on the navbox talk page in an attempt to reach a consensus on this issue. Cheers -- JD554 (talk) 08:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

AfD on Cash line

Has that AfD expired? GoodDay (talk) 21:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Technically it has, but there is usually a backlog on closing them. The minimum time is 5 days but its usually open a little longer than that. --Djsasso (talk) 21:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. GoodDay (talk) 22:08, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the debate


Thanks for participating in the Fog Devils season discussion and remaining civil. I obviously strongly disagree with your reading of the notability guideline and, though I've been unsuccessful in stating the inclusion policies clearly enough, I think I've said all I can on it. Cheers! DoubleBlue (Talk) 20:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh no problem at all. Definately wasn't anything agaist you. I am normally an inclusionist on wiki so normally I would be right along side of you arguing this. However, I think creating season articles for every amateur team is going to create a slippery slope. I will happily go along with whatever concensus ends up being, but I am just concerned with what precedent could be set by allowing this article in. --Djsasso (talk) 20:22, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Heh, heh, funny. No wonder we both feel so strongly. I have no interest in the Fog Devils but am concerned about how far down the slippery slope of voting by perceived importance we have gone! :-) DoubleBlue (Talk) 20:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I'm not an inclusionist. I'm a card-carrying member of AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD. DoubleBlue (Talk) 20:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Haha yeah...thats too many words and too big an acronym for me so I just tend to type inclusionist. --Djsasso (talk) 20:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Ales Hemsky/Banff

Just to make your job easier, I added a source to 5 million visitors to Banff for the sport in calgary page. And isn't the saddledome primarily used by the flames?

How is "speed and dekeing" pov for the Ales Hemsky page? That is what he's mostly known for. Should I add a source?

How is that pov? That is what he's mostly known for —Preceding unsigned comment added by TelusFielder (talkcontribs) 00:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The Saddledome is also used by the Hitmen and numerous other activities. As for as speed and deeking thats a point of view (POV). Anytime you make that kind of of judgement call it is point of view and thus is not encyclopedic. --Djsasso (talk) 02:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

My mistake. I didn't mean to write that twice.TelusFielder (talk) 04:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Deletion review of 2007-08 St. John's Fog Devils season

Good day. I have asked for a deletion review of 2007-08 St. John's Fog Devils season since I did not find the closing rationale to be valid. Although my concern is strictly the interpretation of policy, I would appreciate it if you would participate in the deletion review since you are probably the most knowledgeable about the subject of the article itself. Thanks. DoubleBlue (Talk) 04:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

List of National Hockey League statistical leaders

Man, that damn article! Hopefully this protection will keep the speculation and constant updating down to a more tolerable/non-existent level. Jmlk17 04:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, most of the hockey project really appreciates that protection. -Djsasso (talk) 04:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Not a problem. As a member of the hockey project, it can get insane when IPs start coming in when random crap. Jmlk17 04:05, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Your NPWatcher application

Dear Djsasso,

Thank you for applying for NPWatcher! You've been approved to use it. Before you run the program, please check the changelog on the application page to see if there is a newer release (or just add the main page (here) to your watchlist). Report any bugs or feature suggestion here. If you need help, feel free to contact me or join NPWatcher.

Jmlk17 05:22, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Elonka 3

Admin mop.PNG

Thank you for your participation in my RfA. It was definitely a dramatic debate that landed on WP:100, but ultimately was deemed a successful declaration of consensus, and I am now an admin. I definitely paid close attention to everything that was said in the debate, and, where possible, I will try to incorporate the (constructive) criticism towards being a better administrator. I'm going to take it slowly for now, partially because of the holidays and all the off-wiki distractions. I'm working my way through the Wikipedia:New admin school, carefully double-checking the relevant policies, and will gradually phase into the use of the new tools, with my main goals being to help out with various backlogs. I sincerely doubt you'll see anything controversial coming from my new access level. :) I also fully intend to keep on writing articles, as there are a few more that I definitely want to get to WP:FA status. If you do ever have any concerns about my activities as an administrator, I encourage you to let me know. My door is always open. Have a good holiday season, --Elonka 17:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Franz Josef Strauß

Might I ask you to take a look at the new discussion going on at Franz Josef Strauß? Yes, it is an ancient topic (the use of ß on en-wiki), but this is one of the most prominent articles in which this issue is of significance. Given your experience, your input would be very much appreciated. Unschool (talk) 01:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

WOAA Senior

My personal suggestion is that we drop the proposed deletion for the 2007-08 season and merge it with the league page. The 2006-07 page can be deleted in my opinion. The standings should be pulled from the 2007-08 WOAA standings and merged with the team chart on the WOAA league page. DMighton (talk) 21:36, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I am good with any of that. I just don't think they should be seperate pages. So if you want to harvest the info and place it on the appropriate pages then we can just let the prod's go through and clear out pages since they won't really be needed anyways once you merge. -Djsasso (talk) 21:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Sounds fair to me. The guy who works these articles might not like it... but... he seems reasonable... I'll get to harvesting. DMighton (talk) 22:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


Are you interested in being an administrator? I see that you can definitely be aided if you had a delete button at the very least. ;-) --Maxim(talk) 16:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't actually thought about it before. But you are right some of the tools to fix moves and deal with speedies would definately be useful. I would accept a nomination if someone put one through. -Djsasso (talk) 16:38, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

--Maxim(talk) 16:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

In short, accept the nom, answer the question, then transclude (or ask me, both ways are acceptable) on the main rfa page (WP:RFA), at the top. --Maxim(talk) 16:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
There we go, its all in. Now lets see what happens haha. -Djsasso (talk) 17:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC)