Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation

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WikiProject Articles for creation (Rated Project-class)
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Subjects getting continually re-submitted[edit]

I've noticed cases where the same subject is getting pushed multiple times. I've watched submissions that I've declined speedily re-submitted. Sometimes this is done by the same editor, sometimes by another. I've also noticed where a draft has already been deleted once if not several times. I worry that our statistics create the impression that we're getting a flood of new drafts everyday when much of that flood is a handful of editors (possible SOCKFARMs) resubmitting the same content over and over again hoping to get lucky. Beyond the fact that WMF should (in my opinion) take legal action against these ne'er-do-wells, we might try to find out how often we get drafts (sometimes under different names) submitted more than once. If we had a mechanism to label potential bad-faith subjects and editors, we could isolate the actively dangerous submitters from the naive draft submitters. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:20, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

'Subject' gets resubmitted as 'Subject (dab)' and then 'Subject (dab b)' or First Middle Last and First Last names and often by different accounts. Since many of these are from different accounts, how to track? When a see a strange dab I try to move pages to the appropriate title which often uncovers another version of the Draft. Then redirect one to the other. Legacypac (talk) 08:24, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
This is a precise example of why AfC and NPP sharing an enhanced Page Curation and Feed instead of remaining two separate processes would do a lot towards revealing issues like these. We'll know a lot more when we have the results of the upcoming trial which is designed specifically to isolate the actively dangerous creators from the naive article creators. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:56, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
If you suspect puppetry, perhaps the good folks at WP:SPI should be alerted. ~Kvng (talk) 14:37, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Add to participation list[edit]

I meet the criteria and would like to be added to the participants list. I cannot edit the page because it is protected. Thanks! Kees08 (Talk) 01:15, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Already done Primefac (talk) 13:16, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

HasteurBot lives again[edit]

Spent a few hours over the weekend and started resurrecting HasteurBot's G13 reminding process. This goes through the Category:AfC_submissions_by_date children and looks for pages that are

  • at least 5 months completely unedited (not addressing bot changes or minor spelling changes)
  • in Draft or old AFC namespaces
  • have the AFC submision template on them

to remind the page author that their page is either currently eligible or about to become eligible for CSD:G13. This is done to help remind page creators about their works that they may have forgotten about but also to show good faith that we're not wanting to delete them, but we will if no improvement is made. There is a side task that will also notify users who opt in that a page they've edited in the past has hit the above criteria so "helpers" can try and fix the problem. The interested-notifications are done such that helper gets one change on their talk page listing all the pages that were notified on in the last 24 hours(example: [1]). If you want to opt in follow the instructions at User:HasteurBot/G13 OptIn Notifications.

In a few weeks I'll start tinkering with the G13 nominating process to make sure it's working correctly prior to the pages that have been notified on start being nominated for G13. The bot has an intentional 1 month delay between the reminder that the page is in danger of being nominated for G13 and when the page actually gets nominated for G13 by the bot. Nothing prevents a user from nominating the draft for G13 earlier than the bot if the draft meets the criteria. The bot simply takes the conservative route in terms of interpreting the CSD criterion and giving the draft creator as much time as possible before starting to nominate things. Thank you. Hasteur (talk) 13:18, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Hasteur, thank you very much for the work on this. In particular I like the resurrection of the one-month notice, if only because (as I've seen with CSD) often a tag will be placed and the page deleted before the creator sees the original notice. Also reduces the amount of time wasted by humans tagging G13-eligible pages. Primefac (talk) 19:57, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Add to partipant list[edit]

Hello. Since the page is protected, can someone add my to the participant list? I've been granted new page reviewer, and I'd like to use the script. Thanks, Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 04:33, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

 Comment: Looking at a snapshot of contributions so far I'm seeing a bunch of automated/gnoming edits that don't really seem to demonstrate the level of competence for reviewing AFC submissions. Hasteur (talk) 05:05, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
I've tried to start reviewing, but when I go to an article, the tool thing says it won't work unless I'm added to this list... Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 05:09, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
Huh, that's funny. I am listed as 'inactive'. Well, I'm here now!)) My name isnotdave (talk/contribs) 09:01, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

why is the daily mirror good for horse racing[edit]

why is the daily mirror good for horse racing

Hello 2.26.126.223, and thanks for your question. You probably want to ask this question at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard as I suspect that there is probably a good reason. Hasteur (talk) 16:03, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

participant list addition[edit]

Please add me to the protected list of active editors on Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Participants Meters (talk) 19:03, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

 Done. For what it's worth, the talk page of the Participants page is actually the place this sort of thing should go. Primefac (talk) 21:19, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Backlog aging[edit]

I noticed that a number of "very old" submissions in the backlog are "old" in the sense that they were first submitted a long time ago, but are quite new in the sense that they had been resubmitted in the past few days. I don't claim to understand all the delicate coding in the submission templates, but it seems to boil down to not updating the ts= timestamp when resubmitting or taking the oldest value when multiple reviews are present or not updating the "by date" category once a submission has been enrolled in one. Is this pseudo-aging intentional? It makes the label on the category somewhat misleading. I would certainly like to be able to distinguish – at the categorical level – between never-before-reviewed submissions and submissions that have already been declined one or more times.

The overall impression given is that the huge and lengthy backlog is based on not enough reviewers. Without better visibility on resubmissions, the huge and lengthy backlog may be an illusion: what really happens is that new submissions are typically given an initial review within 48 hours, but articles whose fundamental issues are not being resolved get declined multiple times, exhausting the patience and good will of reviewers, and build up into what appears to be a lengthy backlog. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 23:24, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

jmcgnh, you're pretty much right on all fronts.
On average, we get about 150 submissions per day, but if you look at the "daily" categories there are rarely more than 20-30. This is because the vast majority can be "quick-failed", and the rest sit virtually untouched until they hit the back of the queue, where folks like myself prefer to prowl. Some are first-time submissions, others are repeat declines that no one wants to touch, but either way they languish.
As far as the "recently submitted very old drafts" goes, as near as I can tell users copy their old submission template instead of just using {{subst:submit}}, which as you say puts them directly into the wrong category. Most of the time I catch them purely by accident (e.g. "how was this draft submitted in April?!?!?") and I'm sure that there are a few in there that should really be in the one- or two- day categories.
As far as the backlog itself goes - yes, we could use more competent reviewers. Unfortunately there have been some... issues... lately, and the number of active reviewers has dropped somewhat. I'm actually starting a month-long holiday, so I will hopefully be clearing out "very old" over the next week or two. As with most things (and certainly seen at WP:NPR) there is a core group of folks who do the majority of the work, and if one or some of them take time off the backlog grows rather large rather quickly. NPR hasn't yet figured out how to motivate people, and neither have we. Always open for suggestions, though. Primefac (talk) 02:23, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I've found/fixed all of the ones where someone decided to arbitrarily assign a date. Primefac (talk) 03:17, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. I'm pretty new at AfC reviewing, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 08:03, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
It is great to see that you take the time to provide useful feedback when you decline, as you did here, jmcgnh. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 13:43, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
I review old non-afc Drafts and userspace pages, submitting promising ones to AfC when I find them in hopes they will be either accepted or submission will result in improvements by the creator who other interested people. They go to the back of the list too. Legacypac (talk) 14:05, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Legacypac, they shouldn't. If you submit it on 12 Aug, then use 12 Aug as the date. There's no reason to "skip the queue" simply because no one bothered to submit a draft a year ago. Primefac (talk) 14:30, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I was thinking of when you look at the queue by age say by the "very old" link. Legacypac (talk) 16:44, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Gotcha. Misread your post. Shadowowl has been doing that, so it was fresh in my mind. Primefac (talk) 16:45, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Back and missing my tools.[edit]

Hey all I'm back from about a year hiatus, so I'm sure there's much I've missed. My biggest concern is that my toolbars aren't showing up that I use in AfC. One being the AfC helper tool and the other one was the toolbar that's usually on the left side (I'm not sure if that was a part of the aforementioned AfC one, or seperate) that helps navigate pages waiting for review. I made sure the tool was checked in my preferences and cleared my cache. Any ideas? Sulfurboy (talk) 17:22, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

You have been readded to active list [2] and should be good to go. Legacypac (talk) 18:32, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2017[edit]

SoftClouds LLC (talk) 04:42, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER 04:50, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Peculiar problem[edit]

I generally move drafts submitted in the sandbox to draftspace. Recently I moved an article to Draft:Wipeout Omega Collection from the userspace. The author informed me today, that many of the earlier revisions of the new draftspace article is irrelevant to the current article, as the sandbox was used by him as a test page for a long time, before he wiped it clean and started on the new article. So the new draftspace has many irrelevant revisions which he would like to be removed. The simplest solution will probably be to delete the older revisions, but if anybody has better solutions, please have it implemented on the article. Jupitus Smart 12:40, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

@Jupitus Smart: If the author is the only one who contributed to the page CSD:G7 Author requests deletion is appropriate. If more than the single author contributed, you can't delete the page because we need to preserve attribution history, in which case WP:HISTMERGE is appropriate. Not making any judgements on the page itself, Your mileage may vary. Hasteur (talk) 13:05, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I don't think that would be an appropriate use of revdel per WP:CRD, but you could ask an admin. It sounds like what you want is a history split. – Joe (talk) 13:09, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
why not just redirect the Draft to the mainspace version. Legacypac (talk) 14:36, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
@Legacypac: I forgot to check if the article was already on mainspace. Probably this is all that is required. Nope now that I checked again, the new article is about one of the iterations in the series, and when all the other iterations have articles, this one probably merits one as well. Jupitus Smart 15:51, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
If WP:HISTSPLIT is what is to be done, could somebody who knows how to do it, do the honours. Even though I am a page mover myself, I haven't done this before. Jupitus Smart 15:56, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Jupitus Smart, I'll do a page split. As a minor note, generally when moving drafts from a user sandbox to the Draft space, it's a good idea to leave behind a redirect. Often new users will freak out if their hard work is "deleted", and leaving the redirect at least points them in somewhat the correct direction. Primefac (talk) 16:22, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

WP:PROMOTIONAL resistance[edit]

There's seems to be lot of eagerness lately to delete based on WP:PROMOTIONAL. Brian_Cain has a soiled history in this regard. But I assess this latest incarnation to be ready for acceptance. Vanamonde93, the administrator that WP:SALTed this topic does not agree. Any other opinions?

No reason to accept a stub that violates WP:PROMO. But it is much worse than that. Accepting this type of article opens up the project to charges of turning a blind eye to paid editing, and lowers the reputation of AfC in general. Smallbones(smalltalk) 20:08, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Paid editing requires disclosure but is not prohibited. Anyways there is no evidence that Griff 27 is WP:PAID beyond the fact that this is (so far) a WP:SPA. I appreciate there is anger around WP:PROMO but I think WP:AGF and WP:BITE are quite important too. ~Kvng (talk) 20:18, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I took a look at it. I'm not going to accept it since it's SALT'ed but I think the subject stands better than 50/50 at AfD, unless Wikipedians are feeling vengeful. We get so many of these promotional articles that we end up deleting the article, SALT'ing the title, and taking the remaining draft to MfD. At some point we want to deny these subjects coverage even when they pass the bar for GNG. I've seen less-notable subjects survive AfD before, so it wouldn't be out of the realm to accept it. That said, this is poorly-written and poorly-sourced. If Brian Cain wants to hire me I could really clean this up, provide other sources, and publish something responsible. But when you know the subject is trying to promote their brand, it kills any altrustic desire to write an encyclopedia article. Show me the money! Chris Troutman (talk) 21:06, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

What is the procedure to become a reviewer?[edit]

Hello The criteria of 500 edits and 90 days old account, both are fulfilled by me and yet I am unable to get in the list of reviewers. Please tell me the procedure to add my name and work towards being valuable. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by KamalMahrshi (talkcontribs) 12:00, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Please make your request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Articles for creation/Participants. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:46, 18 August 2017 (UTC)