Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/February 2010

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 13:45, 26 February 2010 [1].

---

List of Bristol Rovers F.C. players

Nominator(s): — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 15:10, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets the FL criteria, and it has already undergone a peer review to address any major problems. There is a small number of red links in the list at the moment, but as this is a list of sportsmen who have made over 100 professional appearances they are by definition notable, and I am in the process of creating articles for them all. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 15:10, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Hat notes: I'd do them manually so you can avoid showing the colon in the category and the hash for the section. Fixed — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) "playing in Football League One" I prefer the more active "who play in ..." Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) "Eastville Rovers[1] and moving to a site known as Three Acres in 1884." the name is reffed but the move isn't? This is covered by ref [2] at the end of the next sentence. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) "in 1897.[2] Two years later, in 1899, " not sure you need both "two years later" and "in 1899" because most readers can take 1897 and add 2 without get confused! Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) Consider linking £ for our non-Brit readers. Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) "In the football club's early history" no need for football here. Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) " no buy/no sell " I imagine these need hyphens. Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) Same for "most used" Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) Minor point but I think you can remove Bristol from "Bristol Rovers career" Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) Just four images? By my reckoning, the page could support another six without running off the end...? This is an issue that came up at peer review, I haven't found many free images that I can use here. I'll try and pick out a few more if I can find any though. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 20:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 18:29, 13 February 2010 (UTC) I found File:Holloway.jpg by chance, perhaps not entirely "footballing" imagery but still pretty relevant... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 13 February 2010 (UTC) I've added that one, and I managed to find a picture of Gary Mabbutt on Flickr with a free licence, which I've also put on. I'll continue searching for more. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 22:33, 13 February 2010 (UTC) Excellent. It can take a month of Sundays to find something useable on Flickr but keep up the great work! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:39, 13 February 2010 (UTC) I've managed to find a few more pictured to add, hopefully this should be enough now. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 11:09, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support great work. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:34, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Staxringold

*Comments I'm fine with the redlinks, I've been doing the same with MLB draft pick lists (and those aren't even guys who yet pass WP:ATH like these fellas do, just recent picks who are likely to very soon). Table section header should probably just be "Players". Any inclusion limitations should be in the text, as List of Major League Baseball players with a career .400 on-base percentage does with plate appearances. Ok, I've changed that. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 08:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Speaking of which, any particular reason for the 100 game limitation beyond simplicity? I don't mind, and it makes sense given the long history of the team, but it'd be nice to know. It's because a full list of all players would be far too long, and the more significant players in the history of the club would get lost in amongst all the people who have only played one or two games. I am working on two other lists to go alongside this one which list players with 25–99 appearances, and fewer than 25 games played. Again, the reason for this split is for length and readability. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 08:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Could you use {{ref label}} and {{note label}} instead of endnotes? That would let you bounce back up to the point in the table you were at once you've read the note. Done — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 22:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Does Byrne and Jay cite positions along with the stats for the players it covers? Well done, I didn't notice this before. It does give their positions, but not in the pages I've given in the reference. The list of names, dates, places of birth, appearances and goals is given in a table at the end of the book, which is what I've referenced, but the positions are given in the actual text elsewhere in the book, so I'll need to go through and sort this out when I get home this evening. The same goes for national team appearances, which are given in another table. I'll work on getting the ref label and note label templates to work properly then as well. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 08:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Notes now added for international appearances and playing positions. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 22:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC) I think most of the text above the table can be de-italicized except the "Statistics current as of..." bit. The rest is actual information. Can also combine the second sentence into the first to just say "Includes...... and substitute appearances." (emphasis mine) Done. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 08:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Position text could probably be a touch bigger. Done. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 08:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Am I correct that "capped at full international level" means, for example, that Junior Agogo also played for the Ghana national team? Staxringold talkcontribs 22:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) That's right. I've wikilinked the term capped so that people unfamiliar with the term can look it up, and 'full international level' is specified to make it clear that this doesn't include age-group level, such as under-21 or under-18. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 08:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks very much for your comments, I hope I've answered all your queries satisfactorily. I'll sort out the problem with the referencing this evening, as indicated above. — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 08:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Hopefully that should be ok now... — Gasheadsteve Talk to me 22:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support Fixed one minor thing with the positional note. Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:17, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment – List itself looks good, but I am concerned about the Ben Appleby and Dick Pudan images. What proof do we have that they were published before 1923, not just created? They would have to have been published before that date for the given U.S. public domain licensing to be valid. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:20, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

To be honest it hadn't even occurred to me that the creation date and the publication date might be different, so thanks for pointing that out. The picture of Dick Pudan was cropped from the 1905 official team photo, so was definitely published the same year. I can't find any information on the original source of the Ben Appleby picture however, so although I'm sure it would have been published before 1923 I've got no evidence to back that up and I'll go ahead and remove it. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 20:26, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: The section Players displays fine in Internet Explorer but in Firefox the images appear first and then the list table. Can this be fixed? Alt text is good. Jezhotwells (talk) 06:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not having that problem, I assume it must be something to do with the screen resolution - i.e. the table and photos are too wide to fit side by side. Is there any way that the photos can be made smaller if the resolution is lower, so that they fit across the screen? — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 09:51, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Certainly to do with resolution, I have a relatively small monitor by 2010 standards (15") and I only get the table and photos side by side when I zoom out to a distance that makes reading the text difficult, and editing Wikipedia impossible. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:39, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about it in that case, other than moving the pictures to a gallery at the bottom of the page, but that would just re-introduce the whitespace that they were put there to fill in the first place. — Gasheadsteve ^{Talk to me} 09:45, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

This is the minimum that would be required to make it display well at 800x600. But at high resolutions it looks pretty bad. I think the current tradeoff is reasonable. WFCforLife (talk) 14:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support per the peer review. WFCforLife (talk) 14:48, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support. Nice work. --Carioca (talk) 21:21, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support – Now that the photo issues I mentioned above have been taken care of, everything looks good to go. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:05, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support - can't see any issues, per my understanding of copyright the image you removed would have been OK, but it's no big deal, especially now you've found a bunch of others to put in -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:24, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 21:58, 24 February 2010 [2].

---

List of Washington state symbols

Nominator(s): Another Believer _(Talk) 20:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets FL critera. I did most of the work with getting List of Oregon state symbols to FL status, so I am familiar with the nomination process for a very similar list. The lists are almost identical in format, except the list for Washington did not require a References column since a General source was used for much of the information, as opposed to multiple sources for the Oregon list. The list should be up to standards as far as sources, alt text, captions, disamb links, etc. go. Thanks so much! --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from bamse (talk) 21:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Not familiar with the topic, so please bear with me if comments don't make sense: The intro seems quite boring to me. The first paragraph is just a chronological summary of the list. The second paragraph is fine. I suggest expanding the intro (and maybe removing/shortening the first paragraph). Some questions I had when reading the article might be helpful for the expansion: How are state symbols selected? (Can anybody propose state symbols of arbitrary type?) Is the list of state symbol types fixed or could it be extended (the state beer,...)? What does it mean to be a state symbol? (What is the reason for designating state symbols? Are state animals/plants ... specially protected? Are inhabitants especially proud of their state tree...? Are state symbols used for promoting the state?) I structured the lead the same as the Oregon list. You raise great questions, but I think the background for each symbol is different, so it is difficult to define the process. As indicated in the lead, the Washington State Legislature officially designates each symbol, but how they are introduced varies. Unfortunately, the Revised Code of Washington does not state what it means to be a state symbol or how the symbols are used. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Maybe you could add a sentence or two saying that there is no fixed procedure how state symbols are chosen. In this context you could give some examples (proposed by individuals or groups of individuals, chosen directly by the state, the state lets individuals or groups of individuals decide,...). How about the "types"? Is there a limited set of types that can be chosen as state symbol? If the law does not mention anything, you could state this in the intro. With Oregon designating a "state hostess" I suppose the range of types is rather broad. Regarding the "meaning", I was not thinking of a meaning as written down in the law. However, I still wonder what the point of designating state symbols is. Is it a way of shaping the image of a state? (I acknowledge it might be difficult to find RS for the latter.) Also, while I can imagine how a state flag and seal are used, I cannot imagine what to do with a state grass. Again, I don't mean a use as laid down in the law; I just wonder where I would see or hear about a "state amphibian, arboretum,..." outside of the official lists. This source helps. I expanded the first paragraph of the lead to include a sentence about how and why the symbols are chosen. Let me know if anything else should be expanded. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:37, 12 January 2010 (UTC) What is "RCW"? Done. Revised Code of Washington. Linked in the table. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks. Can you expand on the "four-year effort" of the students at Windsor Elementary School. What exactly did they do? Not certain, as the source does not expand. If required, I could do additional research, though I don't think the process of how the symbol came to be is as important as the symbol itself and why it was chosen. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) OK. I agree that the symbol and the reason for choosing it are more important. I just felt that there was something missing in the "effort" sentence. Is there no better picture of an apple on commons? White balance seems a bit off. At first I thought it was a peach. As a pop-in, I suggest File:Sundown and cross section 2.jpg. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Now, that looks like an apple. Thanks. In "Washington, My Home" was approved unanimously a State Senator from South Bend introduced", there is probably a full stop missing after "unanimously". Done. Now states "was approved unanimously after a State Senator..." --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks. Is there no picture for Bluebunch Wheatgrass? There is not, and I am not familiar enough with the image uploading process to add one myself. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Did you try uploading one? It is not that hard. If you have a picture, I could help you with putting it on wikipedia if you wish. I did not. I am not really familiar with which photos can be uploaded and which ones cannot due to copyright issues. I'm afraid images and licenses are not my strong point. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC) No problem. I thought you already had a suitable picture which just needed to be transferred to wikipedia. I am sure sooner or later somebody will upload a picture. What year was Washington, My Home written? Done. 1950, as indicated by newly-added source. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks. Since the list is about state symbols, I'd swap the "type" and "symbol" columns. This is the format used by other state symbols lists. If a user wants to find the state bird, it would be much more difficult to do so without the Type column being first. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Good point, done. I'd remove the first of the navigation templates ("State of Washington") since the cities, regions, etc are not exactly related to this list. The symbols page is listed and linked under the "Topics" section of the template. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Oh, I see. Done. bamse (talk) 23:16, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for taking the time to offer comments and suggestions. I hope you are pleased with the improvements, and feel free to let me know if you have additional concerns that remain to be addressed. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for addressing most points. Sorry for my ignorance concerning the state symbols in general, but I still think that the lead could be more interesting than saying: "first A became a state symbol, then B, then C,...". I gave some more suggestions above.bamse (talk) 10:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC) While I am not familiar with image uploading and licenses, I will see what I can do with the lead. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC) The lead is more interesting now, but could be expanded even more ("non-fixed designation procedure",... see above). I'd wait for other reviewers to see if it is really an issue or if it is just me being picky.bamse (talk) 23:31, 13 January 2010 (UTC) I will be sure to expand further if I come across a source indicating how symbols are designated in the state. I have no idea if there are different ways a symbol can be proposed, but I imagine a group (students, lobbyists, etc.) bug a politician long enough that he or she actually submits a bill so that the Legislature can (arguably, waste their time to) vote for or against the symbol. However, I am not certain if there are other ways the proposal can be submitted. --Another Believer (Talk) 02:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Support bamse (talk) 21:49, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Could make lead image bigger, up to 300px if I recall MOS properly, as long as the resolution of the image supports it. Done. Now 250 px.--Another Believer (Talk) 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Symbol doesn't sort properly because of the quotation marks. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC) I always thought direct quotes needed direct reference, e.g. when you say "... is a "living museum" that ..." you need to say exactly where you get that quote. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Seems a little odd to me that tanager isn't capitalised while Song Sparrow is. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Just a quick glance of fr.wikipedia and the French Wiktionary, I can see no definitive statement that quadrille means square. Any chance of an independent verification of this? Done. Actually, I went ahead and removed the translation, as different sources seem to have different information about the background of the dance. Besides, I don't think it's literal translation is too relevant. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC) "Steelhead Trout (also known as Rainbow Trout)" links to "Redband Trout"... a touch confusing. Done. Apparently this fish has several names. I went ahead and changed the "also known as" to Redband Trout to avoid confusion. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 21:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Thank you for taking the time to offer suggestions. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comments
• Washington's second symbol was Western Hemlock, selected as the state tree in 1947. - Scientific name? (Same for other species.)

People recognize and understand species by their common name, not their scientific name. I do not think it is necessary to include scientific names in each instance within the prose, but I made sure each species in the table includes its scientific name in parenthesis. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• The Unofficial symbols section looks kind of lonely; perhaps it could be merged with the lead?

I expanded the section a bit to include unsuccessful proposals, similar to what is over at List of Oregon state symbols. Will expand further if I can track down other proposed symbols. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• In the table itself, "Endemic Mammal", "Folk Song", and "Marine Mammal" should be decapitalized.

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Looks good otherwise. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 03:07, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support –Juliancolton | ^Talk 14:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:25, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "Fourteen additional symbols were added between 1950 and 2000. "additional ... added"; check for redundancy. Done. Removed "additional" --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) I understand that you've linked it for consistency, but do you think readers won't know what an apple is? I don't think it's a high-value link. Readers may know what an apple is, but considering this list is about symbols, I think it is important to provide links to those symbols when used so that readers can easily access the article to that symbol (if they wished to do so). I can remove the link from the lead if you feel strongly that is should be removed. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) I can live with the link in the table, but the lead already has a lot of blue, so I think delinking apple there would be beneficial. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 06:02, 2 February 2010 (UTC) "Prior to"-->Before (it's simpler) Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) The alt text is very good, by the way. Thank you. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) "the Legislature never officially adopted either" Can you clarify that you are referring to the Washington legislature? Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) "meaning "bye and bye" in Chinook Jargon" Comma after here. Of course. Thank you. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Category:Symbols of Washington (U.S. state) is a subcat of Category:Lists of United States state symbols by state so you don't need the former. On the other hand, consider adding Category:Washington (U.S. state) culture to the list. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Dabomb87 (talk) 16:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks! --Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Alt text, contributors, dabs and external links all check out fine. Lead While some symbols, including the state flower and state seal were selected before then, they were not adopted by the Legislature until later. - there should be a comma after 'seal' Done. -02:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC) Its a general that the [overall] summary of the list paragraph is the last one in the lead, so I would switch the second and third paragraphs. It also make it a better read. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 02:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC) Table Why not have the image column next to the name column? Well, for consistency. Nearly all of the other state symbols lists that have a table place the image column last. Perhaps it is because users are also used to seeing images line the right-hand side of the page. --Another Believer (Talk) 02:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC) The adopted column IMO would look better as the first column, since it would IMO make sense to sort by the adoption date.--Truco 503 22:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC) Again, I would argue that the current format is best for consistency. If you feel strongly about either point, I could work on the table or ask other reviewers if they have a preference. Thanks (as always) for taking the time to review this list, and for your comments and suggestions. --Another Believer (Talk) 02:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support--Truco ₅₀₃ 03:31, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 16:34, 24 February 2010 [3].

---

Mayor of Jersey City

Nominator(s): Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me} 20:55, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe I have done most of the work needed to bring it up to standards. I have reviewed the only other Featured List of mayors, and modeled this extensively on that one. Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me} 20:55, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I wrote the San Francisco mayor list, so I am glad to see others use that as a model. It looks good at first glance. Though, you should also include description about the mayors. Also, this article should be named Mayors of Jersey City since this include info about the position.—Chris!_c/t 21:47, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Support - looks good—Chris!_c/t 00:30, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment Agree with Chris that this should be named "Mayor of Jersey City"; otherwise, readers might think there is a separate article about the mayor itself. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:49, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

  I have no problem with the move. My question is whether to do it during the FL review, and move this page at the same time, or wait until after? Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me} 00:06, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

You can move it right now. Don't worry about messing up the FLC page. FLC regulars will take care it.—Chris!_c/t 00:25, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, there is alreaady a redirect at Mayor of Jersey City that was created when it was moved to this title back in 2006. I have tagged it with db-move to clear the way. Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me} 00:38, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

done –Juliancolton | ^Talk 01:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 13:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

;Comments from Arsenikk Could you mention 'United States' so it is clear what country Jersey City, New Jersey is in. This is not at all obvious to a person not from the US. While this applies to all places, this is particularly important for this article, since a lot of people associate "Jersey" with a British island off the coast of France. Done. Linked as "American city of Jersey City..." I hate to be strict on this one, but "American" is a rather vague term, particularly when trying to describe a country "out of nowhere". American can be used when United Statian sounds awkward, but in this case there is no problem just instating "United States" somehow. It is always better to be clear than vague. Arsenikk (talk) 18:49, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Done. My orginal edit was unlinked later, so I have gone ahead and done t the simplest way. Jim Miller See me Touch me 19:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC) The image File:Wittpenn 01.gif is used under fair use. It not only lacks a rationale, but I would not think this article could use a fair use image of him (only his biography article or another article about exclusively about him). Removed, no justification for this article Don't think "Mayor-Council" is capitalized. Done. "All terms are four years." is a very short sentences; it would sound better if merged into another one. I reworded this into a more detailed explanation of the structure of mayor and council "Deputy Mayors", at least where used here, is not capitalized. Done Coming from a country with a very different local election system, I find the "Duties and powers" section a bit difficult to follow, in particular since it more or less requires the reader to look at the Faulkner Act (Mayor-Council) article. For me (with a "political background" from Scandinavia) it is not intuitive that the mayor is not really part of the city council. As I understand it, the mayor functions as the executive branch, where the city council is the legislative branch. Perhaps these are not the technically correct terms, but I would like to have seen a little more elaboration in the beginning of the section, although a sentence or two should be sufficient. See your comment 2 above here. Hopefully I have made this more understandable. Again, "Business Administrator" should only be capitalized if used in front of the name or in the full title "Business Administrator of Jersey City". Similar with "Acting Mayor" Done The single-sentence paragraph under "succession" should be merged with the previous paragraph. Merged with an exlpanation of when automatic succession began It is unclear what reference is actually for the list of mayors. Now there is only the one source. I wasn't sure where I would cite the NJCU source for the list Because the list is sortable, all instances of the party must be linked or unlinked. Similarly with the mayors that were in office several times. Done I don't really see why the dates need to be center-aligned. All it does is mess up the table and make it harder to read. It doesn't look much better when left aligned. The month-year dates seem to make any alignment look irregular The {{main}} under "election" should probably be {{seealso}}, since the article only cover the most recent mayoral elections. Done Could not the link to the articles on the individual elections be put into the table some how. Perhaps by linking the dates or # or something. The dates of the elections and the term don't always match up, and I don't know that linking them would make it clear what the links were for. In "United States Citizen", "citizen" is not capitalized. Done Don't use all-caps in references; all-caps is a typographical choice (just like bolding) and should not be duplicated here. Done In the notes, it is not obvious what "N.J.S.A." is. Figured out how to directly link to each section of the law, and formatted proper references for these The two links under "sources" need to be formatted. Done, for the one that is still there I don't see how the external link adds anything to the article. It is best to remove it, as an ideal article has no external links. I had left this there for the images it provides. If I remember correctly, most of those images were uploaded here several years ago, and later deleted as copyvios. I felt that the pictures added to the article enough to keep it. After rereading WP:EL, I am still in doubt about this. Personally I do not think that tit contains useful information, but if you insist, I will let it pass. If other reviewers support my motion, then I will dwell on the issue again. Arsenikk (talk) 18:49, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Arsenikk (talk) 13:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Looking good. I found a few more things to pick at: The MOS is very strict at using italics, and it should not be used for things like 'unknown' and 'incumbent' in the table. Also, choose between either capitalizing non-proper-nouns or not in the table (i.e. 'Unknown' and 'incumbent'). Done. This may seem obvious to you Americans, but could you just put in a word or to mentioning that the mayor is directly elected. In most countries I have studied the political system of, mayors are normally appointed by the council, even when the mayor leads the executive branch. Of course, most English-language countries have direct mayoral elections, and the US is one of a minority of countries where it is common with a direct election of a single person to appoint the executive branch. This also helps a little with the lead that is slightly short; but I cannot see anything else to put in it. Done, and reordered the sections to match the order of mentions in the lead. I find a few terms underlinked: 'charter', 'ordinances' and 'bond'. Done, although now I have found some new articles to add to my own to-do list for later. Hopefully this is all, sorry for not catching them the first time ;) Arsenikk (talk) 22:14, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Sorry to have more, but why isn't "The next Jersey City mayoral election is scheduled to be held in 2013." referenced? Arsenikk (talk) 13:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC) Done. Probably just too familiar with it myself to realize it should have had one.

Support Arsenikk ^(talk) 13:32, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support Very nice list and it seems any problems have been taken care of! I would suggest merging the Sources section into the References section, though with General and Specific, as in List of counties in Florida. Reywas92^Talk 03:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Done.

Resolved comments from Golbez (talk) 07:25, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

**Having worked on all of the governor FLs, it's weird to me to see the party *after* the terms, but I won't hold that against you. Another thing is that for those, we use "Took office" and "Left office", since many people take office and leave office on different dates than their actual term, and it just sounds better? *shrug* I could be wrong. :) As for actual issues... I don't think footnote [a] is necessary; he didn't switch mid-term, and by the time of his third term the Whig party had ceased to exist, so it makes perfect sense that he'd've switched. It definitely doesn't need to be in its first two locations, and I think it's not needed at all. I think it has to be referenced somehow, as listing one person with two different party affiliations would require a source. I have just removed it from the first two terms and left it on the third. The source used just lists him as a Republican, so I think the explanatory note is needed as well. You aren't using the ref tags, I won't fault you for that, as they're ugly for footnotes sadly, but you need to at least have multiple callbacks to the cited material when you have multiple calls to a footnote. Had to think about that one for a few minutes before figuring out you meant to have Note 1|a|a Note 1|b|b. Done. Nope... there's a way to do it resuing letters. I think you want something like... oh hell, let me find my old version... [4] I've thrown up a proof of concept here [] and reverted, since it's just one, but that's one way to do it; or you could hardcode the letters like in the old Alabama list version and then just do |a|1} and |a|2}. All that said, I suggest learning how to use nested <ref>s, they're so much easier, though slightly uglier. :) --Golbez (talk) 15:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Note [j]... in other lists, I would simply have said "Died in office." The bit about him being the first African American mayor... would you have a mention of that had he not died in office? If not, then it seems like extraneous information for that footnote. No, but I would have had to put it somewhere else. As the only mayor to die in office, there was no need to reuse the note. And a paragraph describing 39 white men, 1 woman, 2 African Americans, and one death in office seemed far worse than one extensive note. Note [g]... you should indicate whether or not he succeeded in his endeavor. Done. I note that no one leaves office on the same day as the next one took office; this would seem to be incorrect at least in the case of the acting governors, as I presume that not everyone resigned or died precisely at midnight. And does the Mayor of Jersey City indeed take office at midnight? (I know the Mayor of New York does, but that's a pretty rare arrangement in US politics I think) See next, but apparently they can take office at midnight as it happened in 1985. The external link should be moved up to general references, and be replaced with a link to the actual official page of the mayor, which already exists in the infobox so either duplicate it or remove the header altogether. The external link is to a page that hosts photographs of the portraits of many of the mayors. They cannot be used here due to copyright, so it is an external link per WP:EL. BUT, I am using it as the source for most of the dates and you are the second reviewer to mention this. I have formatted it as a source, but then those are the dates we have to use. Done. A footnote explaining the unknown party of Alexander and McMartin would be useful, rather than just supplying it at face value. Even something so simple as a note saying "It is not known what their party was" would help; otherwise, it looks as if it could be a placeholder for further research and was forgotten. --Golbez (talk) 22:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC) And done. Jim Miller See me | Touch me 05:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

• One last comment: Inside the block above, I asked if they took the oath at midnight, and you said, "See next, but apparently they can take office at midnight as it happened in 1985." What did you mean by 'see next', because I see no further explanation? --Golbez (talk) 07:18, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I was referring to using those dates based upon the sources. I don't have sources for the older mayors that show same-day changes in office, and the sources listed under General show those dates. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me} 16:00, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay. Support. :) --Golbez (talk) 16:31, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:51, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Salary 1000s delimiter should be a comma in the infobox. Seems to be an issue with some browsers. The source uses a comma, but the infobox cuts off the bottom of that line in IE8 making it appear to be a period. Firefox displays it correctly. "This form provides..." no need to repeat "form" in my opinion. Done. Note c could use a period. Done. As could l, m, n and p... these are complete sentences... Done. Ref 4 has a spare . Done. Another template issue. There was a period in the source after "Co", and the template added another after the field. Sometimes you link NY Times, other times you don't - be consistent. I have fixed this so that the first use is linked, and linked a few other sources. My reading of WP:MOSLINK gives no exception for reference sections, and only the first instance of a particular source should be linked to avoid overlinking.

• Can you confirm that 9, 10 and 13 use en-dashes.

The Rambling Man (talk) 10:47, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

• • They do not, and I don't believe that they should. The listings do not represent ranges that would require an endash. 40A:9-131 represents Title 40A, Article 9, Section 131. An endash would indicte 9 through 131, and would be incorrect. Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me} 14:31, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
    • My mistake. Fine. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:47, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
    • All my stuff resolved, but the cap doesn't seem to like your signature. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:51, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support as nominator. I want to thank the FLC reviewers for their comments which have led to an improved list, as well as prodding some additional research which has resulted in better accuracy and expansion of some of the listed articles as well. I believe that all of the comments have been addressed to meet the FLC criteria. Jim Miller ^{See me | Touch me} 14:58, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

• Of course, you're very welcome for the comments you've received, but your support is taken as read. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 15:34, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 14:38, 24 February 2010 [5].

---

List of Braathens destinations

Nominator(s): Arsenikk ^(talk) 19:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has hundreds of airline destination lists, but this is the first to attempt FL status. It is radically innovative compared to the standard destination lists, including a historical summary to explain the context of the various destinations and containing all historic scheduled services (not just current). Since this is a defunct airline, the list will be inherently stable in the future. The convention has been to call this type of articles 'Foo destinations', but I am open to move it to 'List of Braathens destinations' if there is consensus for that. Arsenikk ^(talk) 19:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Mm40 (talk) 14:09, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment I think this should be moved to "List of Braathens destinations". I don't see any reason not to follow WP:LISTNAME, and the lack of "List of" makes me think there are prose descriptions of each destination. We can make the other lists conform later. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Article is now moved to List of Braathens destinations. Arsenikk ^(talk) 19:38, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
• Comment - I'm just wondering out of curiosity, is there any reason why its been decided to have the Text in the table at 85%? since its not a huge table. Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 09:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
  • The reason was that when I originally created the table, I copied the formatting from another article. I have changed it to 100%, as there is no reason for the reduced font size. Arsenikk ^(talk) 19:38, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• Out of curiosity again is there a reason why the Countries names aren't linked in the Table? Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 17:26, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

• No real reason except that I though it would be overlinking. I have now added links. Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:19, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Overlink#Repeated links states "long sortable tables, in which each row should be able to stand on its own.". So don't worry about it. I was just wondering why doen't Trondheim have either a IATA or ICTO code and why doesn't Tønsberg also have an IATA code. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk}

• Braathens dropped Tønsberg in the 1950s, and the airport was converted to a general aviation (GA) airport. Trondheim Airport, Lade was closed and replaced by Værnes in 1956. Because of this, they never received IATA codes, and Lade closed before an ICAO code was issued. IATA codes are only issues to public airports, while GA airports are issued ICAO codes.

• Shouldn't you mention that in like a little note or something? Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 17:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

• It is now. Arsenikk ^(talk) 21:01, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - I support I guess I have no real issues with this list. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 23:28, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Bencherlite

I'll give a fuller review later. The prose could do with a copy-edit from a fresh pair of eyes, and I'll try to do for you. A few quick thoughts on the presentation, though:

• Have you considered having a sortable table of destinations? "Country" would have to become one of the columsn, instead of being effectively a sub-heading under "city".
• Do you have first / last dates for each destination?
• China did not control Hong Kong throughout this period; it was a British colony until 1997 when the lease expired and it was handed back to China. So unless Braathens only started flying there after handover date, it's misleading to refer to it as "China" without fuller explanation.
• Jersey is not actually part of the United Kingdom [6] just to be awkward... Having said that, if you can find a Brit who can accurately and clearly describe the constitutional status of Jersey in two sentences maximum, I'll be impressed (and I speak as a Brit!) Bencherlite^Talk 22:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I have added the countries as columns and made the full table sortable. At the same time, I have sorted the table [by default] by city, not by county then city. I have changed the Hong Kong flag, as it was served by Braathens SAFE from 1949 to 1954, but I left Jersey under UK flag, since I don't really understand what country it is in. I will try to add the begin and end dates later, but the reason I chose not to include them when I originally created the list, was because I though I lacked sources for some of the end dates. I will look into this again. There are also a few airports that were served with significant wholes (for instance, at the top of my mind I think Sandefjord was added, removed, added and removed). But I should be able to find a way around that. Thanks for the feedback, it has made the list look a lot better :) Arsenikk ^(talk) 16:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
    • Begin and end dates for all destinations have now been added. Arsenikk ^(talk) 14:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments SAFE or S.A.F.E. (per the article you link to)? Possibly link "charter" and/or "scheduled" in the lead as these are airline-specific terms. Ok, you link charter, but on the second use... "The destinations in Asia were served from 1949 to 1954. From 1952, Braathens became a domestic airline, and did not have international scheduled services again until 1987" seems to contradict itself, unless your first sentence was supposed to include "chartered"? I think you could reduce the number of images in the lead and history section, it's a little over the top for me, especially since several of them aren't directly related to the destinations themselves, featuring mainly just aircraft with little context as to where they are. "Northern Norway" is Northern really capitalised? " It excludes airports where Braathens only operated charter services." - can I ask why? If this is a comprehensive list of destinations, shouldn't it include charter destinations as well? "Malmö Avition" typo. Per a question above, perhaps a note explaining why some of the airports have no codes? Presumably refs 32 and 33 are in Norwegian as well? They appear to lack a language parameter. Can you check all others? We're missing consistency between pp. and nothing for page range refs... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC) I use 'SAFE' consequently, as it is by far the most common printed usage. I changed the mention in the 'Braathens' article from 'S.A.F.E' to 'SAFE'. There isn't really an article on scheduled airlines, so I linked to 'airline timetable'. Changed to ...and did not have international scheduled services again from 1954 to 1987, except during part of 1960. I removed two of the images, leaving the two most dominant liveries/aircraft used by the company. Unfortunately, there are very few images that show both the terminal buildings and Braathens aircraft. I wanted all the images along the list to actually be on the list, so I did not want to add planes at other places there. Northern Norway is a proper noun: although not a single political entity, it consists of exactly three counties. It's a bit like Western Australia. I wikilinked 'Northern Norway'. Concerning the scope: 1) It would be impossible to source any airport that Braathens happened to have operated a charter flight to in 58 years, particularly one-event charters (such as flying Rosenborg BK to a UEFA Champions League away game) 2) There is agreement at WP:Aviation and at several AfDs that the scope of destination articles is to contain only scheduled flights, in part because of the issues raised above. Somewhat simplified (after having been involved in/seen dozens of AfDs), there seems to have been established consensus that a scheduled service is in itself considered notable, while a charter service is not considered inherently notable. 3) Due to charter legislation (particularly pre-deregulation), a charter trip would have to be sold as a package (including a hotel) to avoid flag carrier agreements. These flights would not be part of Braathens' service, but simply where they happened to fly a plane, arguably making them not Braathens', but the holiday company's destinations. 4) Making a list over all places an airline landed a plane would in my opinion violate WP:INDISCRIMINATE point 3: excessive listing of statistics. The following text should be sufficient: IATA and ICAO codes are not listed to airports which were closed or converted to general aviation before being issued such codes. Thanks for the feedback. Except where noticed, I have amended the article as you suggest. Arsenikk (talk) 21:57, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support all my issues resolved. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:03, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Further comments from Bencherlite

• The history section is a bit too much "In year x, y happened. In year a, b happened. In year c, d happened". Can you vary the phrasing more, please? It's rather heavy going at the moment. Can any of that material be dropped? You've got the links to the history articles, of course.
• Jersey isn't part of the UK; I suggest that you use the Jersey flag, give the country as Jersey and the city as Saint Helier.

The list itself looks OK - I've carried out some minor copyedits, which I hope don't alter the meaning. Bencherlite^Talk 16:18, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

The history section was written before the years were added to the list, so I have partially rewritten the section to be a bit more vague and "soft", since specific years can always be found in the list. Now that there is a year listed in the table, the whole history section could be dropped, but I would rather not see too much of a compromise. Either all destinations have to be included, or the whole section needs to go. A short summary is offered in the lead, so I am ambivalent as to weather the section is kept. People wanting to learn more can always read to two extensive history articles. Arsenikk ^(talk) 12:32, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support, looking good now. Nice job. Bencherlite^Talk 21:50, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 09:32, 24 February 2010 [7].

---

List of Texas Longhorns head football coaches

Nominator(s): —NMajdan•talk 15:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Continuing in my Big 12 coaches phase, I am nominating the Texas list for FL. Hopefully, I have made all the changes to this list that have been requested in my other lists.—NMajdan•talk 15:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments from KV5

• Superscript daggers in the table.
  • Well, shoot. I know better than that. Fixed.—NMajdan•talk
• No navboxes? Absolutely not a necessity, but I figured I would ask.
  • Inserted the Texas coaches navbox and changed the main link to point to this list instead of Texas Longhorns football.—NMajdan•talk

Otherwise well done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:36, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Support – I see no glaring issues. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:05, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment

• How about adding a column for division champions? I added it to the Texas Tech list even though there's only one entry for the column but UT can fill it out a bit more: Mackovic (1) and Brown (5).
  • I don't think anyone cares about division championships. No trophies are given. Schools don't claim division championships. Basically, in the Big 12, a division champ is the team that lost the conference championship. I just don't think its worth including. Besides, I think that falls under WP:RECENTISM since divisions didn't exist until 1996. So a whole new column that would only be used for two coaches. I am against this idea.—NMajdan•talk 16:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• The division champ isn't always the loser of the championship game. There are plenty of examples in the Big 12 where the division has had a tie: in 1999 and 2000, Kansas State and Nebraska were both north division co-champions, in 2001 with Colorado and Nebraska, in 2007 with Kansas and Mizzou, and in 2008 in the north with Mizzou and Nebraska plus, Oklahoma, Texas and Texas Tech in the south. So there's multiple teams that have shared the division title but not advanced to the conference championship game. Divisions titles are widely used and recognized on their Template:CFB Yearly Record Entry, teams pages (Texas, Colorado, Texas Tech) and coaches articles. Also, the Big 12 recognizes the winners of the divisions according to their record book (here: http://www.big12sports.com/fls/10410/pdfs/football/record_book.pdf) NThomas (talk) 01:37, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• I just don't think it is worth mentioning in what is already a tightly packed horizontal table (as seen on a 1024x768 monitor).—NMajdan•talk 17:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Everything else looks great! NThomas (talk) 04:18, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

More comments

• How about adding a sentence concerning Will Muschamp as he has been named "Head coach in waiting"? NThomas (talk) 03:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

• Again, I just don't think that is necessary. This is a list of head coaches, not future head coaches. If we knew that Brown was going to retire at the end of the next season, and so we had a definite start date for Muschamp as head coach, then I could see it. But anything could still happen. Sounds like Tennessee went after Muschamp this past month and while he turned it down, it showed that he is going to remain a target by other schools and that it is not guaranteed he will stay at Texas.—NMajdan•talk 13:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Support – NThomas (talk) 16:51, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:03, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments – Tense problem here: "The Longhorns have played in 1,200 games during its 117 seasons." Fixed? Maybe?—NMajdan•talk 21:55, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Bible and Royal have been inducted in the College Football Hall of Fame." "in" should be "into". Done.—NMajdan•talk Mack Brown's first name doesn't need to be repeated in the last sentence of the lead. I do this for emphasis as I feel it is a very important sentence and his name, as the current head coach, is worth repeating.—NMajdan•talk Is the Mack Brown-TexasFootball.com site related to the official Longhorns website? From going to the Texas athletic website once in the past, I remember it being that way. Want to ask about it anyway in case anyone else has questions about it. Yes, it is the official website for Texas Football.—NMajdan•talk Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:03, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments "They played without a head coach their first season. " stands in isolation and breaks the flow a little, you could merge it with the previous sentence which talks about them starting to play organized football. And I would suggest "coach in their first season" or "coach for their first season". Reworded.—NMajdan•talk You repeat "Longhorns" five times in five sentences which doesn't help the prose. Changes some to "Texas."—NMajdan•talk Any thoughts on a totals row at the bottom of the table? I don't think it is necessary. I like to keep these as simple and consistent as possible with these lists.—NMajdan•talk "# - Number of coaches[A 1]" this doesn't read correctly to me - e.g. Mack Brown has 28 number of coaches? He's the 28th coach, but this key is not worded correctly. Maybe just replace "Number of coaches" with the information you've put in the note. Done.—NMajdan•talk Sorting by OT in descending order, I get Mack Brown at the top despite him have — - I'd expect him to be at the bottom of a descending ordered list. Same for the other columns where you have a mixture of 0's and — I don't think this is possible. I had previously used {{tlx|ntsh|0}} but I found this put the dashes in between the 0s and 1s. Doing {{tlx|ntsh|999}} at least puts the dash completely outside the value range. Although a side effect of that, as you pointed out, is it sorts it at the top when in descending order. So, the question is, would you rather have the dashes in between the 0s and 1s or above the greatest value?—NMajdan•talk Oh, it's possible alright. Have a look at some of the markup on List of England Twenty20 International cricketers, that may help, say the "Wkt" or "Mdn" columns... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:11, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Hmmm.... {{SortKey}} doesn't appear to be working like it does on that list. I'll look into this some more tomorrow.—NMajdan•talk Ok, think I got it fixed.—NMajdan•talk 13:44, 9 February 2010 (UTC) I can't get the "archived" citations to work at all, but a more pertinent question, where is Bible and Royal's entry into the HOF cited? I have added citations for the HOF entries. Yes, it appears WebCitation is down.—NMajdan•talk The Rambling Man (talk) 12:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Term does not sort correctly. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:38, 21 February 2010 (UTC) Regarding the sort issue, I have raised an issue with it on another FLC and would like a discussion.—NMajdan•talk 15:39, 22 February 2010 (UTC) Oppose until the sorting is sorted out. I have seen lists of much greater complexity (particularly cricket ones) that have their sorting correct). And as I discovered today, IE7 doesn't sort the C% column at the other FLC correctly, and I wouldn't therefore assume that IE6 would either, and that's 35% of all browsers according to Nmajdan's source here. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC) Sort issue fixed.—NMajdan•talk 16:32, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:31, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "The team has had 28 head coaches since organized football began in 1893 with the nickname Longhorns" Fuzzy logic, I'm not sure whether "with the nickname Longhorns" applies to. Also, a comma after this clause would be nice. This has kinda become standard with these lists as this issue wasn't raised previously with my other lists. The Longhorns is the team's nickname and has been as such since the program began.—NMajdan•talk I understand, but that doesn't mean it's right. I still have trouble decoding what is being said. How about something like: "The team has had 28 head coaches since it started playing organized football in 1893 with the nickname Longhorns, although they played without a head coach in their first season." Dabomb87 (talk) 23:19, 22 February 2010 (UTC) Fixed.—NMajdan•talk 15:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC) "win-loss percentage" En dash, not hyphen. Fixed.—NMajdan•talk In the table, not sure if it's worth putting the number of championships next to the years they were won; it crowds the cells and seems redundant. Removed.—NMajdan•talk Otherwise, the list looks good; will support once TRM's sorting issue (which I can't find) and my comments are resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:48, 21 February 2010 (UTC) Bingo. Good work, looking forward to Dabomb's support. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 08:15, 24 February 2010 [8].

---

List of Memorial Cup champions

Nominator(s): Resolute 16:48, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

A list I worked on some time ago but failed to nominate at that time. There are a few redlinks for some of the oldest teams, which I do not believe should be a problem but can fix if desired. Fun Fact: My grandfather played in the 1953 tournament, and that team was recently honoured by the Manitoba Hockey Hall of Fame. Resolute 16:48, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Mm40 (talk) 13:04, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments - Just wondering why are the Host Locations very inconsistent? for example the "1919 to 1971" table has no locations linked, and "1972 to 1982" has them linked and "1983 to present" doesn't even have the column, plus on a personal opinion the Abbreviations would create some type of confusion with the readers as I would expect some may not know that Alberta is abbreviated AB (just an example I would expect them to not be familiar with the other regions as well). Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 22:32, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Umm, yeah. That was a bit of a miss on my part.  ;) I've changed the first two tables to be consistent - using just city names and linking only the first usage. From 1983 on, the host city was de-emphasized in favour of the host team, which is noted in italics. Resolute 01:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Musta accidentally looked over the Italics part. and I would think overlinking the host city column wouldn't be a bad thing and would remain consistent with the table as after all the Team names are linked multiple times. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 01:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Duly overlinked.  :) Resolute 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Support - It all seems fine. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 23:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

• Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Blah... fixed! Resolute 06:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:38, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Do we really need to link World War I? "playdowns " Is there a less jargon-y word that can be used? "The Western Hockey League has won the most Memorial Cup 18 times since the adoption of the three league tournament format in 1972." This sentence reads strangely ... "has won the most Memorial Cup 18 times"? "Amongst " "Among" is simpler and nicer. "with for titles each." Typo? "Canada in the first World War." Same comment about linking WWI here, and it might be better to say "World War I" here too for consistency. "It was to be awarded to the junior hockey champions of Canada in an east versus west format." If possible, could you specify which teams (leagues?) comprised the east and which comprised the west? Not possible. In the early days, any team sanctioned by its provincial governing body was eligible. This would have represented dozens of leagues over time. "The head-to-head competition for the Memorial Cup changed formats several times over the years." Redundancy Why not make the tables sortable? The abbreviation "TG" needs to be defined. Is it worth redlinking 2011 Memorial Cup yet? Dabomb87 (talk) 17:40, 31 January 2010 (UTC) The host city for the 2011 tournament is scheduled to be selected in April, with an acompanying article likely created then. No harm in leaving it redlinked. All dealt with except those I replied to individually. Thanks! Resolute 01:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Quick comment: I think the "score" column should go between the winner & runner up columns, similar to what is done at List of Grey Cup champions. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 19:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Not a bad idea. Updated. Resolute 00:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Support –

• 1983 to present: "they had been defeated by Spokane Chiefs in the WHL playoffs." Add "the" after "by".
• Note b: "The Chicoutimi Sagueneens hosted the 1988 tournament at the Colisee de Chicotimi, however were not guaranteed a vote." Not in love with the grammar here. Merely switching "however" to "but" is the fastest way to improve it.
• In the first table, the score is sorting improperly. The double-digit scores are sorting in a different group than the single-digit scores. I think the figures need sort templates. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• All three fixed... I hate sortable tables, lol. Resolute 00:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments "Major Junior" or "Major-Junior"? Without the hyphen. I've never really seen it used with. Apart from the two times in this list? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) lol, whoops. Fixed. Resolute 01:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) " won the most titles, six." perhaps "with six"? "who died for Canada in" perhaps this is CanEng, but didn't they come from Canada and die in WWI rather than "die for Canada"? Junior ice hockey appears to be overlinked. "The head-to-head competition for the Memorial Cup changed formats several times" - has changed. Disagree. Adding "has" implies to me that the format described continues to exist. Without has, it reads as a past tense statement, imo. Yes, it changed in the past, it isn't changing now. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Result col (in the first table) sorts oddly for me. In what way? Well, I get 7-5 ahead of 2-0 one way and 4-3-1 the other way. I'm not sure what the sort is supposed to be doing. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC) 7-5 is a combined score over two games, as denoted by the (TG) notation, while the 2-0, 3-1, etc are the number of games won by each team. There really is no better way I can think of to sort that given the differing formats. Resolute 01:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) I tried to add a clarification to the hatnote above the table. Resolute 01:28, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Blank cells never good - perhaps a TBA or TBD? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC) All changed saved the lines I individually replied to. Thanks! Resolute 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Alt text, contributors, dabs and external links check out fine. Lead Each year the champions from three CHL member leagues; the Western Hockey League (WHL), Ontario Hockey League (OHL), and Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL), along with a host team, compete in the MasterCard Memorial Cup Tournament. -- this would be better written as Each year the champions from three CHL member leagues—the Western Hockey League (WHL), Ontario Hockey League (OHL), and Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL), along with a host team—compete in the MasterCard Memorial Cup Tournament. Known originally as the OHA Memorial Cup, it was donated in 1919 by the Ontario Hockey Association in honour of the soldiers who died fighting for Canada in World War I. -- maybe link to Canada in World War I? Tables I would make the additional participants and locations column unsortable because their are multiple entries. Notes In 1987 the OHL organized a Super Series for the right to host the Memorial Cup tournament between the Leyden Division champions Oshawa Generals, and the Emms Division champions North Bay Centennials. -- comma after 1987 References The Hockey Hall of Fame should be linked.--Truco 503 03:58, 20 February 2010 (UTC) All fixed, thanks! Resolute 18:08, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support--Truco ₅₀₃ 02:48, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 03:05, 24 February 2010 [9].

---

List of Sacramento Regional Transit light rail stations

Nominator(s): Patriarca12 (talk) 03:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets the FL criteria as it has been styled after successful FL's of similar topics (List of Dallas Area Rapid Transit light rail stations, List of UTA TRAX stations). Patriarca12 (talk) 03:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 23:55, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Overall nice list, but a few comments before browns stars are sprinkled. First a question: Is the list "light rail stations of the Sacramento Regional Transit" or "stations of the Sacramento Regional Transit Light Rail"? This is essential in establishing capitalization. From what I have seen, light rail in this context is not a proper noun, and the naming I used for the article was modeled after that of the Dallas list. There are several mentions of the "Sacramento RT light rail system". I would argue that if "light rail" is not part of the name, then the system should be referred to as either "the Sacramento Regional Transit", the "Sacremento RT" or "the light rail". By consistently mixing the two, you are "admitting" it to being a proper noun. Arsenikk (talk) 14:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC) I believe I have now corrected the text appropriately to address this concern with the relationship netween Sactamento RT and light rail service. Patriarca12 (talk) 23:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC) I would have said that The stations along the Sacramento RT light rail network are... could be shortened to The stations along the network are... because there it is inherently understood which network is being discussed. Done After "The various works represent an array of media including:", I would have used a comma instead of a colon. (The colon forces an unnecessary long break to the reading, given the short sentence. Done The sentence "both stations were deferred due to neighborhood opposition only to be built later due to changing attitudes towards the rail project" has two "due to"s. Changed I would have though outside of Sacramento was redundant to outside Sacramento (or is this a matter of dialect?) Changed Comma after "between 2003 and 2007". Done Image licenses check out good. "Alkali Flat/La Valentina" and "Roseville Road" are in the wrong order in the list. Done Why is there not a sort button for station? After for instance sorting for date or jurisdiction, the reader may want to sort again by name. The stations were originally unsortable, as the stations beginning with a number would not properly sort (i.e. 4th, 7th & 8th). However, I do agree with your point and although not perfect, I made the stations sortable. Could you say at what end (for a person who knows absolutely nothing about the geography of Sacramento) the extension of the Blue Line will be? For instance, north or south; alternatively provide a map. Done No more than a sentence, but would the Geeen Line share track with other lines? Done The alt text for "Mather Field/Mills Station" sounds awkward. The word "approach" should be cogitated or something. Done The alt texts seem to overemphasis the overhead lines (which don't need to be explained as "...powering the vehicle". Corrected I find the "City College Station" image very dark; personally I think it is not high enough quality to include, as it doesn't add any value beyond showing "yet another" station. Are there more images available? Good call. I only added it because there are not that many available illustrating the stations available. I'll keep my eye out for new images in the future. Arsenikk (talk) 12:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC) I have corrected the issues mentioned. Thanks again for taking a look! Patriarca12 (talk) 14:30, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Support—nice work, Arsenikk ^(talk) 10:00, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 15:58, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments "Works of public art included at several stations were developed as part of the RT Public Art Program.[5] The various works represent an array of media including, mosaics, sculptures, metalwork and murals. " merge these two sentences to improve the flow. Station names with numbers don't sort as I'd expect them to, i.e. 7th comes after 59th... Archive Plaza station image doesn't appear to show anything remotely station-like! Not sure "Opened" is appropriate for planned stations. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC) I have addressed all but the second comment, as I changed it from unsortable to address a previous reviewers comment. I understand it does not sort correctly with the numbered stations, but can be useful still with the non-numbered ones. I have no strong feelings either way and am agreeable to any consensus made on the issue. Comments addressed. Thanks for taking a look at this! Patriarca12 (talk) 23:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC) I would have though using {{sort}} and then sorting the station as 04th... etc would solve the sorting issue. Arsenikk (talk) 23:55, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Eureka! I did not know that functionality. I have corrected accordingly. Thanks for the link! Patriarca12 (talk) 02:02, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support my concerns addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:31, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Support - everything (layout, images, sources, prose...) looks good to me.—Chris!_c/t 02:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 03:05, 24 February 2010 [10].

---

Grammy Award for Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album

Nominator(s): Another Believer _(Talk) 19:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets all FL criteria. The list is similar to the recently-promoted Grammy Legend Award list, but without all the white space. Pictures are well-suited for the Legend list, as each entry is a different individual, but this list contains duplicate entries (including one listed 10 times), so pictures would be redundant. Also, I did not center the Nationality column, as I found it to be distracting (the Legend list has enough space that centering the Nationality column looks better). The list should be up to standards as far as sources, formatting, sorting, alt text, disambig links, etc. go. Thanks so much! --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Reywas92^Talk 22:24, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Reywas92Talk 22:24, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

*Very nice, but short, list. I don't think I have any problems, but I do have a somewhat related question: Why are the Grammy award ceremonies up to 1997 styled as Grammy Awards of 1997, but after that it's 40th Grammy Awards? Reywas92Talk 00:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC) I don't know why that is either, but I'm about to move all the "Grammy Awards of..." stylized articles to the "st/nd/rd/th Grammy Awards" style. The 1st and 2nd Grammy Awards were both held in the same year, so this formatting would avoid any need for disambiguation and keeps all the ceremony articles consistent. Pyrrhus16 16:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks, Pyrrhus16. I went ahead and updated all of the links in the list so that they link directly to the proper titles. The Grammy Awards template could be updated as well for consistency. I might be able to get around to that soon, but I am off to work for now! --Another Believer (Talk) 17:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC) FYI, I went ahead and updated the Grammy Awards template as well. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:17, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Wait! What about the artists nominated for the award? They are also honored and very relevant to the topic. I would like to know what competition the winners had. And the most recent awards haven't been added yet [11]. Reywas92Talk 01:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC) How did you want them to be displayed? Like this? Or this? Or another way? I feel this will add a lot of white space to the list, but I'd be happy to add nominees if reviewers find it necessary. I am hoping past nominees are east to find online. --Another Believer (Talk) 04:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC) How do you like this? This will be the first (competitive) Grammy FL, so it will likely set a precedent for others. IMO the style used in many Oscar articles is best because it still allows sorting of all names. Here are the 2008 and 2009 nominees, and I'm sure the rest are somewhere, otherwise I think the recent ones would suffice. This is related info, so there's no reason to leave it out. Cheers, Reywas92Talk 21:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Doing... --Another Believer (Talk) 06:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC) I went ahead and added a Nominees column, where nominees (apart from the winner) will be listed alphabetically by last name in an unsortable column, along with a Reference column to verify the nominees. Now that there is more white space in the list, I think it would look better if all of the columns, apart from the Nominees column, are centered. Also, I think I will make the text in the Nominees column slightly smaller, just to reduce the amount of white space. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:04, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Almost done. I know it is the responsibility of the nominator to update the list and make the corrections needed to address reviewers' concerns, but I am having trouble finding reliable sources that provide the nominees for two of the years. If you are able to help find a reliable source with that information, it would be much appreciated. I will continue looking in the meantime. With the Nominees column, we may need to play with the table a bit (or at least remove the pictures along the right side of the page, as the table is squeezed together too much (in my opinion). However, it certainly contains more information than before, and it more useful in that sense. --Another Believer (Talk) 20:44, 5 February 2010 (UTC) Here is one. Rockonthenet.com should be reliable per this FAC (it's the official site of the ARC Weekly Top 40). Dabomb87 (talk) 23:41, 5 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks so much! The Nominees column is completed--now we just have to figure out how to best fit all of this information without compacting all of the text (at least it appears that way on my computer). As much as I enjoy the images along the right hand side, and actually now the table is long enough that more images could be added, they may need to be removed so that there is more width for the table itself. Thoughts? --Another Believer (Talk) 01:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support - Looking over this article, I can see no issues to be raised. The prose and the lead are both fine, the article is comprehensive and it is also visually appealing. Well done. Pyrrhus16 16:46, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. --Another Believer _(Talk) 17:45, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Hi. I think you should re-word the paragraph about multiple winners in this category, since Michael Bublé won his second Grammy in this field yesterday.Jaespinoza (talk) 07:14, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 17:52, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering about the other albums nominated, I'm glad you are adding a column with the nominees for every year, just like the Mercury Prize list. Jaespinoza (talk) 18:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I am working on that as we speak... though it might take some time to find nominees for each year. I do think it will make the list much more informative and useful. --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:14, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:48, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments I thought the awards were given by "National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences" not the "Grammy Awards"? See below. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Perhaps you could say they are given at the Grammy Awards, by the National Academy...? Better? Line one says "at", line two says "by" the NARAS. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) "outstanding achievements in the music industry." cite this. I found a better description, coming straight from the Grammy Awards site. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Are the alternative names cited somewhere? Yes, the category names are listed for each entry under the General source. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) I don't like small text, it just makes the list less accessible. You could add additional images down the right-hand side - Connick Jr, kd lang, Rod Stewart, Buble, all have images of one sort or another. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 19:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Stewart's Great American Songbooks - second one is called "Songbook 2", third is "Songbook, Volume III", fourth is "Songbook 4". Is this precisely correct? Corrected. I went ahead and moved the articles to reflect the correct album titles. They are now consistent, and as they appear on the album covers. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Ref 5 could use an en-dash. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) And ref 13. Done. --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 14:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC) I think I have addressed all of your concerns, apart from the small text and images along the right side of the page. Here is my concern, which I tried to discuss above with Reywas. At least on my computer, the text is already wrapped in all 4 columns (Performing artist(s), Nationality, Title, and Nominees), so that "lang" wraps to a second line, each entry of "States" (as in U.S.) wraps, and some of the album titles for the other two columns wrap. Enlarging the text will only increase the amount of wrapping. While I like the images, and I would love to add more, I don't think the table looks good with so much wrapped text. Any thoughts, or ways you can think of to correct this problem? --Another Believer (Talk) 18:26, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Okay, I can see your point about the smaller text but adding additional images surely won't make it worse as long as you force them all to the same "thumb" (either just thumb or upright)? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Sure, I have no problem with adding images. I will work on that now... Done! --Another Believer (Talk) 18:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support my concerns addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:34, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 03:05, 24 February 2010 [12].

---

Laudian Professor of Arabic

Nominator(s): Bencherlite^Talk 14:46, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

With Bodley's Librarian looking to be running well below, I thought I'd try again. On a similar theme to that list, but this is the first in what I hope will be a series about some Oxford professorships – plenty of detail about the chair, then a list of professors with detailed notes about each. I hope that it makes a change from the excellent music and sports lists that tend to be the staple diet of FLC. I also hope it's an interesting read – a mixture of excellent and incompetent professors dating back to the middle of the 17th century.

.شكرا لك على الوقت والاهتمام

(which Google Translate assures me is "Thank you for your time and attention"). Bencherlite^Talk 14:46, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 This list fascinates me. My minimal exposure to Bishop William Laud is as a semi-fictional character in a novel series by Jack Cavanaugh, in which he is the principal antagonist in the first of eight books. That said, to see a little perspective on the true historical man is an interesting twist on what I already believed (based purely on fiction, of course!). My comments on the structure follow: Lead image could be much larger, considering the voluminous size of the lead. I recommend between 250 and 300px. "The Laudian Professor of Arabic is a professorship" - any way to be less redundant than saying "professor" twice in quick succession? I would assume that "DPhil" is a common British English abbreviation, where we in the States use "Ph.D.". Perhaps this should be written out to Doctor of Philosophy so as not to invite confusion? "Between 1916, when the Oxford DPhil (research doctorate) was introduced, and 1939," - this comma within a comma structure doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps consider changing the parenthetical set of commas to either spaced en-dashes or unspaced em-dashes per WP:DASH? "Numbers of students grew after the Second World War" - might be better stated as The number of students grew. The current wording just seems awkward to me, but again this may just be UK/US and me not knowing that. You link languages in the lead but not the table. Any reasoning here? Footnote 2 needs a period/full stop. Well-executed. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for your swift comments! Image changed to 250. I tried 300, which was a frighteningly large... Reworded to avoid this, some info shuffled as a result. "DPhil" is the Oxford term, other UK universities (except York, I think) use "PhD", which is why I explained it. However, it overcomplicates matters, doesn't it? So, reworded to "when the university introduced a Doctorate of Philosophy for research" m-dashes used; although I try to avoid them normally, but I can't immediately think how else to do it without multiple commas. I was in two minds about this before submitting, so have changed it as suggested. Links added Added Hope this meets your wishes. BencherliteTalk 15:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC) The only other way to do the em-dashes would be to use parentheses, since that's what em-dashes replace, but I think it looks good as is. Great work! KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:11, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Support from KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:58, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Not wishing to be too picky right off the bat but I think a nice ref for Laud as Archbishop of Canterbury wouldn't go amiss. done "to request his " with the other "to..." in this sentence, I just think "requesting his" would scan a little better? done "learning of Barbary" any chance of letting us into the secret of what this means? I'm sure it's not related to ducks... Added "(i.e. the Barbary Coast of north Africa)" "during Lent and the vacations on" - odd call here - vacations is these days USEng, and this usage is probably not what current USEng means. Any chance of a subtle reword? Hmm, how about "between university terms"? "all bachelors of arts at" worth linking that BA? Done "this does not seem to have been followed" - regulations were plural, so perhaps "these appear not to have been followed" or something? "Although all bachelors of arts at the university and all medical students were required to attend, this does not seem to have happened" " Sir Hamilton Gibb was the first professor to be a fellow ..." perhaps we need to reinforce which particular professor we're talking about? done "The number of students grew after the Second World War: Gibb had an international reputation that attracted foreign students, while many home students who had spent time in the Middle East ." students x 3, maybe a rephrase? Reworded "Islamic World Subject Group" if this is notable enough to be discussed, it's probably notable enough to be linked? Don't think so, really - it's a sub-group of a faculty, so not particularly notable in the grand scheme of things. "of his time... and" does this comply with MOS re:ellipsis and spaces? Gosh, no, how awful of me. Gulp. Please forgive me, oh mighty TRM. nsbp added. "because of the drudgery of the work" fact, your opinion or a rephrase? Probably worth a quote/ref. Expanded to "the toil and drudgery of daily attendance in all times and weathers" and direct citation given Should "stupor mundi" be in italics really? MOS:ITALIC "Wikipedia prefers italics for phrases in other languages and for isolated foreign words that do not yet have everyday use in non-specialised English", so yes I think so. "He published extensively" himself or was his work published? (Nitpicky) My Concise Oxford Dictionary says that the term can be used of authors as well as publishers. "one of the sons of" why not just "son of" or, if you really want, "a son of"? "a son of" it is The Rambling Man (talk) 21:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Hope that these changes mean that it's looking better for you now, sir. Bencherlite^Talk 22:15, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• "... mighty TRM ..." is happy... Good work. Gets my support (a rare commodity...!) The Rambling Man (talk) 22:21, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• <Chin hits floor>Thank you, sir. Must try blatant grovelling more often. </Chin hits floor> Bencherlite^Talk 22:23, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Alt text, contributors, dabs and external links all check out fine. Why is St Johns not St. Johns? Because the college doesn't use the "." BencherliteTalk 20:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC) Lead University regulations introduced by Laud prescribed that the professor was to lecture weekly during Lent and between university terms on Arabic grammar and literature. -- the lowercase 'university' is a general usage correct [in this sentence]? I'm happy that lowercase is correct here. BencherliteTalk 20:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC) Although all bachelors of arts at the university and all medical students were required to attend, this does not seem to have happened: --why not Although all bachelors of arts and all medical students at the university were required to attend, this does not seem to have happened: Reworded, with one fewer "all" than your suggestion. BencherliteTalk 20:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC) He is a member of the Faculty of Oriental Studies, based at the Oriental Institute, and is one of about 25 faculty members in the Islamic World Subject Group. -- instead of about how about at least, seems less WP:WEASEL Source says "about 25", so who am I to disagree? BencherliteTalk 20:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC) IMO, I would have thought to see this broken up into sections due to its length, and I can see that happening but the section headers would be on your personal judgment.--Truco 503 23:02, 19 February 2010 (UTC) OK, lead and sub-headings added. How's it looking now? (Sorry I didn't spot your comments / suggestions earlier, must have slipped off my watchlist at the weekend) BencherliteTalk 20:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support--Truco ₅₀₃ 02:51, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 16:01, 21 February 2010 [13].

---

List of National Treasures of Japan (castles)

Nominator(s): bamse (talk) 10:30, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

This is another list of the series of lists of National Treasures of Japan. It uses the same structure as the already featured shrine, painting and sculpture lists. I tried to incorporate comments from previous FLCs. I could not decide where to put the last paragraph of the lead. If you think it is better at the start, it could be easily changed. bamse (talk) 10:30, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment *No problems reported with dab links, alt text, or external links. Well done. TomStar81 (Talk) 13:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• I agree. This is very nice work, bamse. Very well done, indeed. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:36, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• This does indeed address most of the issues raised in previous FLCs. Nice work! I'm close to supporting, but the statistics table doesn't really make sense. When there are hundreds of items it's understandable to create a table, and state that there are some discrepancies, briefly explaining them. But when there are 8 castles and 13 structures I think it would be easier to just cover this as prose. The other extremely minor thing I saw was that [nb 2] comes before [nb 1] in the usage section. WFCforLife (talk) 06:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

  Replaced the small table with: The eight national treasures are distributed over four castles as follows: Himeji Castle has five national treasure structures; Hikone Castle, Inuyama Castle and Matsumoto Castle each have one national treasure. Also swapped nb 1 and nb 2. bamse (talk) 07:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support. Short but sweet, covers the topic very nicely. WFCforLife (talk) 07:50, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:12, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments I suspect mid 15th should be hyphenated. Done Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) period x 2 in first sentence reads poorly. Good catch! Fixed Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Archetypical - do you mean archetypal? Fixed Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) You seem to make daimyo italics just sometimes, either always or never, be consistent. Fixed Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "castle building" again, hyphen needed I think. Added Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "eight[nb 1][nb 2] entries " ugly. I think you can safely put these notes at the end of the sentence after the period. Fixed.bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "This list presents eight" vs "In fact the number of structures presented is more than eight" one of these sentences, therefore, is incorrect. Or it just reads poorly. One way or another this could be fixed. Fixed. (first "structures" changed to "National Treasures"). bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "each have one national treasure." no need to repeat "national treasure". Removed Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Seems to be a problem with [[Hikone Castle]]. Fixed.bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) style[14], - move ref to after punc per MOS. Fixed Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "Each level is a bit smaller" - "a bit" is not particularly encyclopedic. Reworded Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "remarks including; The column " something's missing here... Fixed.bamse (talk) 21:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "construction; The column" no need for the capital T. Fixed.bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Same in following note. Fixed.bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) I think "geo coordinates" should be "geo-coordinates". Done.bamse (talk) 21:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "three-stories/three floors" aren't stories the same as floors? and why is one hyphenated and the other not? If it's different can you explain why? Added: A typical keep would have between three and seven stories discernible from the outside. Its inner structure including the number of floors could differ from the outward appearance.[19] Castle towers at Himeji, Inuyama and Matsumoto Castle have one floor more than is visible from the outside. to the statistics section. Added: ... the number of stories (outside) and floors (inside) to the usage section and removed hyphens. bamse (talk) 21:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC) What's a ha-corridor? Added: "The four corridors at Himeji Castle are labeled as "I", "Ro", "Ha", "Ni" corresponding to "A", "B", "C", "D"." as a footnote. bamse (talk) 20:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC) "[ex 1]; " move note to other side of punc per MOS (there are several of these) Done. bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) What's a Ro-, Ni- and I-corridor? Added footnote (see above under Ha-corridor). bamse (talk) 20:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Ref 18 is poorly formatted. Fixed. bamse (talk) 20:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) JAANUS ref's need spaced en-dash instead of spaced hyphen per MOS. Fixed. bamse (talk) 20:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Why have a section 6.1 when no 6.2 exists? Either create a 6.1 (for specific references) or make the current 6.1 a 7. Made 6.1 into 7. Done. bamse (talk) 20:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Fourth bibliography ref needs an en-dash. Fixed. bamse (talk) 20:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Some of the templates don't expand for me - e.g. Buried Cultural Properties. That should be the only part that does not expand (correct?). It is not supposed to expand (it is a feature), because there are no designated Buried Cultural Properties and there are too many Buried Cultural Properties, so there is not going to be a List of Buried Cultural Properties either. It would be good to get rid of the "[show]" for this row. I found a way to achieve this but it breaks center alignment of "Buried Cultural Properties". Also asked here for help. bamse (talk) 22:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Conservation techniques template is badly formatted - "Selected ConservationTechniques" there should be a space in there.. Fixed.bamse (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Any reason why your metres are to two decimal places while the feet are to just one? No idea. I used "convert"-templates which take care of the conversion automatically. Since a foot is less than a meter, a one decimal foot-precision might be comparable to a two-decimal meter-precision. If you think it is a problem, I could ask the authors of the template or remove the templates all together from the article. I thought the {{convert}} template would allow you to specify decimal places? The Rambling Man (talk) 08:12, 8 February 2010 (UTC) It does allow to specify decimal places. However the default behavior (without specifying anything) takes care of precision automatically. Citing from Template:Convert#Rounding: Default rounding: ..., the conversion will be rounded either to a comparable precision as the input value ... or to two significant figures, whichever is the most precise. Let's say you convert "1.1 m" (one decimal) to cm. Even without specifying anything the convert template will output "110 cm", i.e., no decimals. So the number of decimals does not have to be the same in input and output length. bamse (talk) 09:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support all my concerns addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support: Another well made list. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 13:05, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support Looks like a nice list. I do have a couple of comments though but nothing to cause me to withhold my support.

• I wonder if the bit about "This list is complete and up-to-date as of January 2, 2010" is really necessary

• It is not really necessary. I basically put it there to remind myself of the date I last checked its completeness. The Agency for Cultural Affairs gets together about four times per year to decide about the designation of new national treasures. In the 21st century there were each year between one and five new national treasures designated in one of the 13 categories. So the number of national treasures is growing slowly. Just checked: the castle list is still up-to-date as of today. If it is confusing, I could remove the template. bamse (talk) 23:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

• If it's there to remind yourself, you could just put in a hidden HTML comment like so: <!-- Last updated on <date> --> Dabomb87 (talk) 23:50, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

• Did that. bamse (talk) 00:01, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks, consider doing that on the other National Treasure lists (including those that have been promoted to FL) as well. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:23, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

• Done. bamse (talk) 12:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

• There are a couple places where it says things like 1600 to 1615 and I think it shoudl be an endash instead a to.

• I disagree; spelling out "to" and "through" in prose seems better than dashes. At the least, there is no good reason to change the style. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

• Theres a couple places with hyphens and should be endashes, such as one-storied and up-to-date.

--Kumioko (talk) 22:46, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

• No, the hyphens are correct there. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:49, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok fair enough --Kumioko (talk) 22:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 16:01, 21 February 2010 [14].

---

List of TNA Women's Knockout Champions

Nominator(s): --WillC 07:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because... I feel it fits the criteria. This is a pretty straight up nomination. All comments are appreciated and will be taken care of as quick as possible. If any reviewers have a nomination they would like a review on, present the link here and I will be sure to review it. Also, I am apart of the WikiCup.--WillC 07:21, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Mm40 (talk) 12:57, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - very minor issue but is it "Slam Sports: Wrestling" or "SLAM! Sports: Wrestling" as Ref #8 is listed as "Slam Sports: Wrestling" and #1, 10, 11 and 15 is listed as "SLAM! Sports: Wrestling", plus theres a sorting issue with the Days Held column which was resolved in the last FLC which needs to be applied, other than that I have no real issues. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 21:31, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
  • It varies, but I usually write it as Slam does with "SLAM! Sports". All problems fixed.--WillC 00:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
    • "All title changes have occurred at TNA–promoted events thus far." - is there any need for the thus far? Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 04:58, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
      • Not sure, removed.--WillC 05:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support - I see no problems with the list. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 08:23, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Alt text, contributors, dab links, and external links all check out fine. Lead The TNA Women's Knockout Championship is a professional wrestling women's world championship owned by the Total Nonstop Action Wrestling (TNA) promotion. - The 'world' issue once again. What constitutes this as a world championship? It was once named the TNA Women's World Championship, the name it was introduced under. TNA continue to state it is a world championship in video packages, interviews, etc. This is a WP:PW issue, because it seems more and more each year that the 'world' term is used more as a moniker than a legit classification.--Truco 503 18:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC) There is no such thing as a classification for world championships in wrestling. They are just promotional terms. World Championship makes the company look bigger. Really, it comes down to the company saying if it is or not. In this case they say it is. It is primarily contested for in TNA's women's division. -- primarily? where else would it be contested in? It has been defended against men. You should note that then.--Truco 503 18:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Done--WillC 05:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) It was introduced on October 14, 2007 at TNA's Bound for Glory pay-per-view (PPV) event under the name the "TNA Women's World Championship";[1] it was later renamed the TNA Women's Knockout Championship in 2008. -- remove the 'the' before "TNA Women's World Championship", the 'the' in 'under the name' suffices. Also, be consistent since you are referring to the names here, use quotation marks for both names or don't use them at all Done--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) The word "Knockout" in the championship's name, alludes to the pseudonym TNA Knockout, which TNA uses to refer to its female wrestlers. -- the word 'pseudonym' doesn't really work well here because yeah Knockout is a fictitious name, but in this case TNA Knockout is a term/title used by TNA. Done--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Not sure about the O.D.B and ODB spelling uses. Not sure myself, it goes back and forth. Supposed to mean "One Dirty Bitch", but not pushed that much by TNA. Fixed for consistency.--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Link to wikitionary to wikt:Vacant? Done--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) The lead is a bit boring, add something about TNA Impact and the locations. Also, how this is the original women's title in TNA before the tag titles were made. Not sure what to say about Impact!, the taping thing was removed since TNA keeps changing their dates. Locations is confusing. Added about it being one of two titles.--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Well in lists that I worked on that had tapings like with SmackDown, it was noted how those shows were on tape delay and that the day the title was won is listed not the airing date.--Truco 503 18:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Done--WillC 05:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Names The N/A 2008 doesn't read well, just use 2008 thats the accepted way even in everyday life. Done--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) List Ref column should be unsortable. Done--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Keep in mind once this list expands, the link in the notes to tape delay may have to be linked every time due to the sorting options. I remember, overlink says each row should be able to stand on its own, thus and exception to overlinking.--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Yeah, right now it does, I'm saying when it expands (ie. to WWE Championship length).--Truco 503 18:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC) I doubt it will get to that length anytime soon.--WillC 05:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) See also If you add what I said about the tag titles, then this section is not needed. If you don't, remove Knockout and the championship name because you mentioned them above. Done--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) External links Why is the template for TNA Knockout champions relevant?--Truco 503 04:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC) What? This is list of TNA women's knockout champions, of course the template about the champions would be relevant. Better question is: How is it not relevant?--WillC 07:04, 30 January 2010 (UTC) I ask because there is no link to this article on that template, that's the only reason why.--Truco 503 18:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Champions is linked to this article.--WillC 05:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Footnotes Each reign is ranked highest to lowest; reigns with the same number mean that they are tied for that certain rank. -- meaning not mean.--Truco 503 18:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Done--WillC 05:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- Previous issues resolved; now meets WP:WIAFL --Truco ₅₀₃ 02:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments – Remove comma after "The word 'Knockout' in the championship's name". Done--WillC 21:48, 8 February 2010 (UTC) "with the other being the TNA Knockout Tag Team Championship." I always dislike sentences of this structure. How about "the other is the TNA Knockout Tag Team Championship."? Done--WillC 21:48, 8 February 2010 (UTC) "usually air on tape delay". Should this be "aired"? Done--WillC 21:48, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Perhaps add a comma in the middle of "Tara is the current champion in her third reign." Done--WillC 21:48, 8 February 2010 (UTC) In the combined reigns table, Tara's days are sorting in the wrong order. Done--WillC 21:48, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Footnote: "reigns with the same number meaning that they are tied for that certain rank." "meaning" → "mean". Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Done--WillC 21:48, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Does the year of the rename have a ref? No, but I could use a PPV review from 2008.--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) "TNA–promoted events;" - shouldn't this be a hyphen rather than an en-dash? Could you check WP:DASH? Hadn't noticed.--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) And I imagine "10 knockout.." should be hyphenated. Done--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) I still believe that we don't need to wiktionary link "vacany". Well vacancy in wrestling results do to different reasons, plus had been the standard for sometime now. "Used for vacated reigns..." has no period while "Indicates the current..." does. What's the difference? I didn't notice there was one. What I get from copy and pasting the same table over and over.--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) How does Event sort? I get V, N, L, six T's, H, G, F, B when sorting in reverse - is this correct? What's the logic? TNA Impact! sorts by Impact! since that is its usual name. Could change it to sort by TNA if wished?--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) Notes with no notes could use an em-dash or en-dash in the empty cells. I would feel that would be strange looking.--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) Will the list be updated in 17 days time to ensure Tara's combined reign record moves from 6th to 5th? The days will update automatically but the position in the table won't... Yes of course, I usually check the lists I've expanded to FL to see if they are up to date regularly. One may slip through the cracks every once in a while, but the TNA Titles usually are updated quickly.--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) Ref 12 - that's a heck of a long quote - are we sure it's not a copyvio? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) I wouldn't consider it one.--WillC 23:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC) I'd like to see what others think. Single sentences that have been copied from other sources have, in the past, been copyvios - this is a huge copy-and-paste... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Agree with TRM. This is non-free content in the form of text. In this case the "Excessively long copyrighted excerpt" classifies as an unacceptable use. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Simple fix, I'll just remove the quote. Done--WillC 18:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Support - my concerns addressed. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:35, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:11, 21 February 2010 [15].

---

List of Major League Baseball managers

Nominator(s): KV5 (Talk • Phils) 14:24, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

My first independent FLC nomination in a while. I know this article was just created, but it's been built in my sandbox over the course of the last couple months. I believe that it meets the criteria, and I hope you enjoy. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 14:24, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Reywas92Talk 23:32, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

*I'm pretty sure this is an article, not a list. I see all prose but no table; a table listing only the current managers would be nice though. Good luck at WP:FAC! Comment: The lead should be about managers, not the history of MLB. Reywas92Talk 22:41, 23 January 2010 (UTC) Actually, I see that Manager (baseball) has the list of the current ones. That article's pretty short, so you should probably merge them. That would make a great FA. Reywas92Talk 22:43, 23 January 2010 (UTC) I disagree. This is still organized as a list and should not be sent to FAC imo. Also there are other baseball leagues in the world and manager (baseball) should cover managers of those leagues as well, not just the MLB.—Chris!c/t 04:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC) I've removed the list of MLB managers from the manager article. As Chris says, there is a lot more baseball in the world than just the MLB. Dabomb87 (talk) 05:31, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for your comments, guys. Yes, this is still a list, in the style of List of Major League Baseball awards. It's just a bit longer, because there are a lot of teams. A simple table doesn't do near as much to lead a featured topic as a text list like this, and since that's the eventual goal, that's the route we decided to take. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:39, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Okay, that's fine, but I do think a table at the end of the page would be very useful to more easily point out the current managers. Reywas92Talk 18:30, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Adding a table would be unnecessary duplication of information that's already in the article. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:06, 24 January 2010 (UTC) No, it's a legitimate summary in table form. No one wants to sift through each section to see the current managers, especially when most of them are stuck in the middle of the paragraphs among others. Anyway, that's incorrect because the Orioles, Marlins, Tigers, and Athletics lack mention of the current managers. Reywas92Talk 23:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Well, that was an oversight on my part which will be has been corrected, but the summary is still redundant. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC) I think we need to be cognizant that a list is still a list even if it's not in a table. Just because there's not a defined block-by-block "list of current managers" doesn't mean that this list is any less valuable. It has a broad scope. It also is not entitled "List of current Major League Baseball managers", as it's meant to be an overview of the managerial history of each team, not a block-by-block list. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:54, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Support That's a good point, but it's still a courtesy to the reader who only wants to know the current managers. Nice job with the list anyway. Reywas92Talk 22:47, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Support That's a good point, but it's still a courtesy to the reader who only wants to know the current managers. Nice job with the list anyway. Reywas92^Talk 22:47, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Staxringold

*Comments I agree that a text-list is fine as opposed to a table. For a subject such as this it does help, as it lets you go into history more easily. However I do agree some form of pattern would be nice, perhaps leaving the current manager sentence to the end of each paragraph. Even if it means then putting other factoids (like how historically great Scioscia is relative to the Angels franchise) after it, it would lend some serious readability IMO. Then some smaller things: Age estimation is one thing, but phrases like "dark skinned" and "brown skinned" in the alt text is a little... :/ for my tastes. It might help the people who can't see the image to know what they could be looking at. The guideline for alt text says that "race can be a sensitive area" (paraphrased), but I don't mention a particular race there, simply a skin color, which I consider to be an "immediately noticeable major attribute" (per WP:ALT).KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Fair enough. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC) The all-time managerial wins list factoid in the lead could use a cite. It is cited to the same reference as the following sentence; if you feel it's absolutely necessary, I can duplicate it. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC) I seem to prefer a higher level of ref replication than others. *shrug* Either works. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Doesn't bother me. Consider it done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 02:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Might it be worth separating (in all the various HoF mentions) when someone was inducted as a player and when they were inducted as a manager? It's still notable that Bill Dickey is in the Hall, for example, but it's not really for his 1 year managing the Yankees. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Not all of our lists make that distinction; I've always been of the opinion that a Hall of Famer is a Hall of Famer regardless of why they're in, but that's just me. The major reason is because the references that they are cited to don't give that information. They just say "HOF". KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC) It is, however, available at both the individual person's page John McGraw "Inducted into the Hall of Fame by Veteran's Committee as Manager" and at the HoF voting results page (1937). I suppose my issue just goes to the Dickey example. In the same way we don't mention positions that someone played for only a short short while (I did not include a "Pitcher" designation for Ted Williams on the .400 OBP list even though he appeared in one game as a pitcher) because we understand the difference between a true position and one of quick happenstance. I see a similar issue here. As a list of managers, I see a difference between a Hall of Fame manager and a Hall of Fame player who just happened to manage (just as Ted Williams was not a Hall of Fame pitcher, but merely a Hall of Fame left fielder who played pitcher once). Staxringold talkcontribs 02:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC) I'm aware that the player pages have the info, but that means that I would have to go through the entire list and individually reference each person who is in the Hall of Fame. I guess my only qualm is: is all of that really necessary? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 02:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Very easy cite, actually (I used to use this page all the time in showing why Jim Rice wasn't a HoFer compared to other corner OFers). 20 Managers to note. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC) To paraphrase: You're killin' me, Stax! All right, I'll have to get to this after my trip this weekend. I'll get started during my lunch break today, but after work today I'll be out of commission until Saturday night. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:34, 29 January 2010 (UTC) This should be done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support! Sorry to be difficult. :) Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:53, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:08, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments – This includes the lead and NL teams; I haven't gotten to the AL clubs yet. Not finding that much in the first half of this unique list: Atlanta Braves: "while the current manager is Bobby Cox. Cox...". Would be better to avoid that repetition. A similar situation exists in the Phillies section. Might be good to quickly check for that elsewhere. To two: When I do that, it's to avoid confusion because there are two managers listed in the previous sentence. Changing it to a pronoun could be ambiguous. Do you have a suggestion? For the Phillies one, you could move some into the first sentence, like "is Charlie Manuel, who has been with the Phillies since 2005." Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:18, 12 February 2010 (UTC) KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Pittsburgh Pirates: "as well as winning percentage among managers who led the team for a full season or more." Is "the highest" supposed to be included in here? Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:36, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Doesn't need to be; Clarke holds franchise records in wins, losses, and winning percentage. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Cleveland Indians: Try not to have the one sentence start with the number 40. "the last major sports championship for both the franchise and the city of Cleveland." The 1964 Browns won the NFL title. Even though the Super Bowl didn't exist yet, that still counts as a major title. Minnesota Twins: They've won two World Series in Minnesota, not win. I think Tom Kelly was the manager for both, if memory serves. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:18, 12 February 2010 (UTC) All done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 22:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Support – Looks good after the adjustments. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:08, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:24, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Not directly relevant to this list, but I think List of current MLB managers and List of current Major League Baseball managers should be redirected to the appropriate article, as it is a plausible search term. This won't affect my eventual support, but I do think Reywas' comment about adding a table of current managers somewhere in the article (probably in the end). I understand that it does not fit into the article title exactly, but current managers are still managers, and a reader looking for a list of current MLB managers (which as demonstrated above does not exist in article form) would not know where to go. I understand it would be slightly redundant to the navbox at the bottom of the list, but that's acceptable per Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and navigation templates. To the above related comments: this is not intended to be a list of current Major League managers, as the daughter lists are not about the current managers only. I understand the relevance of WP:CLN here, but this list is serving a different purpose than being a list of current managers. All current managers are mentioned in this list since they are linked in the navbox, but the purpose here is to be a summary of the managerial history of Major League Baseball, hence the title. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) No problem regarding the table, but I still think those two redlinks should be created, even as redirects. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:28, 19 February 2010 (UTC) Redlinks now blue; wondering if I should create a hatnote for the template for those people looking exclusively for current managers (a la "This list is about all Major League Baseball managers. For current managers only, see Template:MLB managers by team"). Sounds good to me. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC) Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 02:09, 19 February 2010 (UTC) I'm curious as to why you don't abbreviate Major League Baseball (apologies if this has already been discussed). I'm not a big fan of abbreviations in prose; I think they start to look sloppy because once you use them once, you have to use them every time. There are a lot of places where I would rather see the prose than the abbreviation, so I just choose not to use the shortened forms. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) "Major League Baseball is the highest level of play in North American professional baseball, referring specifically to the organization that operates the National League and the American League." The sentence order is a bit wonky; it looks like "referring specifically" is modifying "baseball" rather than "Major League Baseball". Perhaps "Major League Baseball is the highest level of play in North American professional baseball, and is the organization that operates the National League and the American League."? Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) "It is currently composed of 30 teams." Rm "currently"; it is a dated word and the number of teams doesn't change frequently enough for the word to help. Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) Caption: "Connie Mack holds the records for most wins (3,731) and losses (3,948) by a manager in Major League Baseball history." A bit verbose, could be "Connie Mack holds the records for most wins (3,731) and losses (3,948) by a Major League Baseball team manager." (or something like that; my main beef is that "history" is redundant) Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) "The last player-manager in Major League Baseball was Pete Rose, who began managing the Cincinnati Reds in 1984." Not sure what you mean by "last". Is Rose the only one left? No, he was the last one at the end of his career. Rose has been out of baseball since his banishment. Not sure of a better way to say that. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) "Since that time, the team has" "Since that time" seems redundant to me. Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) "managerial ejections" No link for ejection? Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) "During the regular season, Gene Mauch leads the franchise in both wins and losses (646–684)." Could be "Gene Mauch leads the franchise in regular season wins and losses (646–684)." (I took out the "both" but feel free to put it back) Modifying phrase before that says regular season. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC) "twentieth century" Per MOS, centuries are written in figures. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC) Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:11, 21 February 2010 [16].

---

List of San Francisco Municipal Railway lines

Nominator(s): kurykh 07:57, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

There are actually no featured bus line lists on Wikipedia, so I'm going to try to make this the first one. I hope this will be some sort of trendsetter, if not simply a guide for similar lists. --kurykh 07:57, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Three quick things: symbols should be superscripted in the table to reduce clutter and the lead image doesn't need a period. Also, all images (including the navbox) need ALT text; pretend you're describing the image to someone over the phone. Mm40 (talk) 13:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Superscript symbols: The little symbols I took from List of Muni Metro stations, an earlier FL that I did, and it does not have superscript symbols. Nor do any FL rail station articles, at least those relating to the San Francisco Bay Area. --kurykh 22:29, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
    • This is not a FL requirement, just a personal preference.—Chris!_c/t 02:35, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
      • Oh. In any case, it's best to keep some consistency with the others. --kurykh 05:44, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Lead image period: Done. --kurykh 22:29, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
  • ALT text: Done. --kurykh 22:29, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment - looks good to me. But I think this list can be even better if a little more info about the lines themselves is provided.—Chris!_c/t 22:15, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 20:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Can you source the claim that it's commonly referred to as the Muni? Should be straightforward... Removed claim entirely (all websites I looked at put it in parentheses instead). --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "when the A Geary-10th Avenue was inaugurated" shouldn't that say "... Avenue line was inaugurated ..."? Done. --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "revamps" not keen on this, doesn't read encyclopaedically if you get my drift... Done. --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "entire city plus some parts" ditto... Done. --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "have two parts to the name, for example, the "1 California."" not sure what this is getting at, and not sure this is a great example. Done. --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Why are lines in bold? See WP:MOSBOLD... Done. --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Express bus lines table goes haywire when I sort it, presumably because there's a rowspan in there somewhere... Fixed. --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Defunct section could do with at least some words to explain itself, not just a link to a content fork. Changed to a "see also" section. --kurykh 23:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment Check the toolbox; there are a couple of dead links. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Fixed. --kurykh 05:16, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) "the current lines in use today." Spot the redundancy. Done. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) "routes serving the entire city and some parts" More redundancy. Done. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) "trolleybus" Is it really one word? Yes, see trolleybus. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) "run on five major corridors" "on"-->through Done. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The portal link goes in the See also section, not External links. Done. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Dabomb87 (talk) 23:10, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments General Dab links, external links, alt text, and contributors check out fine. Lead In terms of ridership, Muni is the eighth-largest transit system in the United States, with 221,213,200 rides in 2008 -- why not riders? Done. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The names of all Muni routes, except those of the cable cars, have two parts: a number or letter; and a street, neighborhood, or landmark, for example, the "1 California". -- remove the 'and'..thats what the semicolon is for...also is there suppose to be something after the "1 California" [train]? Removed the semicolon instead. The "1 California" is a bus, and in San Francisco, the entire line is just called the "1 California" or the "1". "Line" can be added if it is still confusing. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Would fares be a relevant addition to the lead? I don't think so; most people reading this article would have come from the main San Francisco Municipal Railway article, which does have a fares section. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) List I'm confused, in the termini column, this is the street or the region/area/station? (for the cable lines) They are street intersections. --kurykh 01:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Since some of these are small tables, you don't have to link the same street over and over like Market, because each row can stand alone in small tables like this per WP:OVERLINK (just a suggestion). Done...somewhat. --kurykh 02:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Streetcar lines: The K Ingleside column entry needs to have the note underneath in parenthesis for a more formal presentation. Changed that to a note. --kurykh 02:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) I think it should be noted somewhere that the termini of the lines are both stations and streets. Done as a note. --kurykh 02:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) --Truco 503 23:59, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support...if the 'line' word is added where I mentioned. Other than that, comments resolved meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 23:43, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Done. --kurykh 01:11, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Support - Looks good to me. --Kumioko (talk) 19:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments:Support Harrias (talk) 07:12, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

• I don't understand what you mean by "...for use within Muni operations."
  • Fixed. --kurykh 04:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
• I agree with one of the other reviewers that there is no need to reference streets such as Market in every usage in short lists such as 'Cable car lines', but I would like to see it referenced throughout in 'Local bus lines', where at the moment it is in all but #6.
  • Fixed. --kurykh 04:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Other than those two small points I think it is a nice list, well done. Harrias (talk) 22:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:11, 21 February 2010 [17].

---

List of places of worship in Worthing

Nominator(s): Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 14:59, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

This is the fourth in a series of lists of places of worship in the county of Sussex—a set of lists which I hope will eventually cover all of its 13 local government districts. Modelled on the current FLs for Brighton & Hove, Crawley and Adur, it is a comprehensive list of every extant public religious building, whether open or closed, in Worthing. All notable churches have their own non-stub article; I am satisfied that the others have insufficient reliable source information to write viable articles or stubs. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 14:59, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

NB. Peculier [sic] is shown as a disambiguation page on the dab-checker, but the page is the only place with the correct definition of this term, so I have left the link in place. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 15:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Is there any other names you can choose for this article? Something like "Houses of worship in Worthing" or something. CrowzRSA ^{17:14, 10 January 2010 (UTC)}

Previous FLCs for similar lists have determined that "List of places of worship in..." is the preferred form. "Houses of worship" sounds slightly odd to me, especially when used in respect of Christian churches, which most of the places of worship listed here are. (It can't be called "List of churches..." because there is also a mosque.) I note that the Wikipedia article is Place of worship, with House of worship given as a variant. Comments from others would be welcomed. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 17:32, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

If there are several others with the same text, "List of places", I would leave at that, mainly to avoid confusion and blend with the rest. CrowzRSA ^{21:51, 10 January 2010 (UTC)}

From the way he spells "favorite" on the user page of CrowzRSA, there is little doubt that he comes from the western side of the Atlantic. "House of worship" may be an accepted American term, but this is an English list and the title is therefore correct.

I have not studied this list in any detail, but from what I can see it is up to the usual very high standards of this editor, and I am sure that, apart from any minor details which may be discovered in the review process, this deserves to be another FL. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 10:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:25, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Minor nag, never really understood the use of, say, a 1.1 subsection when there's no 1.2. Another minor comment, but one that may be brought up by those more particular, the claims of the urbanness and the absorption of "ancient villages" is unreferenced. (note, I see this is quite well described later on, and referenced, so no major issue...) Ditto for the "religious identification". (ditto) Only problem being you have some claims referenced in the lead but not all... Another picky one, and one you are free to ignore, but I'd prefer to see [10], [11] and [12] all together after the comma following "19th century"... Fate seems rather an odd word (for me), would "status" be a little more natural? "followed another religion" I'm guessing you don't just mean an other religion, perhaps place "another religion" in quotation marks? " much higher " in absolute terms, only 2.4% higher, (16.99% vs 14.59%). I'd just remove "much". "Location and Coordinates" just "coordinates" would be fine. I note that the majority of your architects are all unlinked. None of them meet our notability guidelines? Col widths of two main tables are not the same from section to section, would prefer if they were. You link Scout in the "closed" section but not in the Mission hall section. Check page range refs for en-dash (e.g. 11, 12, 21 etc). The Rambling Man (talk) 13:36, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Have started to work on these, but lunch is over now, so more to come this evening. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 13:51, 12 January 2010 (UTC) →Responses to TRM's comments (in order) I've changed the "Mission Halls" bit into another second-level heading. For the uncited bits in the lead, I have repeated or added extra refs. I prefer to keep refs [10] etc. in their current places to show exactly which fact each one is citing. Yep, "status" is better: changed. "Another religion" bit reworded as well. "Much" removed from "much higher". Actually I've changed to just "Location" if that's OK, because it covers both aspects. No, sadly the architects are a fairly insignificant lot for the most part (no offence to them!): most of them designed a few churches in Sussex and not a lot else. I've linked all those w/ an existing article. I will do some digging around and see if any could safely be written about though... Not sure how to sort out the columns without forcing the widths, which may cause more probs than it solves. On a related note: the heading "Refs" was recently changed to "References" on both tables, causing that column to be quite wide. Is it permissible to abbreviate to "Refs", which would be my preference? Scout is now linked in both places. Darn: I thought I'd caught all dashes/hyphens. Will do that with the next edit. Many thanks for your helpful comments. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:30, 12 January 2010 (UTC) ← 8 page ranges found and en-dashed; I think that's all. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments - This is a nice list and the context is well explained, but a couple of little niggles:

• There are several phrases in the notes section which could be seen as POV eg "impressive arches", "well-regarded" etc - I assume these are backed up with who holds the view, in the references but as these are in a separate column this is difficult to tell.
• The "Images of England" web pages referenced are dated to 2007, however there is no indication on the site to support this date (which, as you know, covers listed buildings in 2001 & has now been superseded).

Otherwise looking good.— Rod ^talk 16:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

→Responses to Rod's comments

They are all referenced as you say, but I have tweaked, removed or directly attributed certain phrases (including, but not limited to, those examples) in this diff.

For IoE, although the info and pictures were created as of February 2001, I have used the website copyright date as shown on the home page ("© English Heritage 2007" at bottom right) for the publication date.

Thanks for reviewing and commenting. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for sorting those.— Rod ^talk 22:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

• Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. (I'm not sure if it can be fixed, though). Dabomb87 (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there isn't really any way round it except to unlink it. (I hoped there might be a Wiktionary link to the term, but sadly not.) As mentioned in my rationale at the top, I would prefer to keep the link (because it's an unfamiliar term). Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 15:10, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

That's what I thought; it's not a big issue. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:22, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support. This is well worthy of featured status. A couple of comments that do not affect my support. I should prefer the Status or Notes columns to be merged with the Refs./References. References as such do not merit a separate column, it would reduce the amount of white space, and refs usually appear directly after the relevant text. And for the sake of easy reading I should prefer greater use of non-breaking spaces to join for example "St Mary's", "G. Highet", "Sir Arthur", and "St James's". Peter I. Vardy (talk) 10:36, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Peter; I'll make a start on non-breaking spaces later today (I always forget that! If there was a nbsp button in the edit window, it would help remind me...). For refs: having tried it both ways, I have a slight preference to consolidating them in one column, but may consider changing this in future to integrate them with the notes. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 12:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Non-breaking spaces have been added as appropriate. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:05, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Don't think we need to link "English", especially since "West Suffex" is linked a couple words away and there's a link to England in that article. "growing town to postwar housing" Which war? The given link doesn't clarify much, either. Image caption: "Worthing located within West Sussex" just reads weird; perhaps "Worthing's locatation within West Sussex"? Goring United Reformed Church note: Not sure if a link to World War II is needed... "This Art Nouveau-influenced building, by a local architect" I feel that a verb needs to precede "by". "for the conversion of this 98-year-old Strict Baptist chapel into a house" Sounds like the chapel is still 98 years old. The reference section is quite long; consider adding a colwidth parameter (e.g. {{reflist|colwidth=25em}}) Dabomb87 (talk) 16:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks Dabomb. From the top: England unlinked there. Clause amended to make post-WWII connection clear. Changed caption to your suggested wording. WWII unlinked in the Goring URC blurb. Could be argued either way, but on balance the addition of "designed" works better. Ebenezer blurb completely reworded to clarify, including the actual year (1907) this time. I've added colwidth=30em, which has been used on some of my other lists; I always forget this because I use Internet Explorer and the parameter doesn't seem to be supported by it (i.e. doesn't make a difference to the layout). Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:18, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: In ref #100, clicking on the link requires a login and notes that it's a private area of the site. Perhaps add a registration required note in the ref? The place is triple-reffed in the list so this ref may not even be necessary given that issue. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:48, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting; now changed to non-login link. I think they must have changed the website since I added that ref. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 18:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Now Support. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 21:26, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Alt text, dab and external links, and contributors are all up to speed. Lead A further 16 former places of worship are still in existence but are no longer in religious use. -- I think the beginning is a bit wordy, why not just 'Sixteen other former places ..' The Church of England, the country's state religion, is represented by more churches than any other denomination, but Worthing's first church was an Independent chapel. -- how is the Church of England the official religion? If Christianity is the official religion, which makes more sense? You mean state church? Places of Worship Why is St Mary not St. Mary, or any of the 'St's for that matter? Mission Halls Replaced by permanent church, which was demolished in 2008 -- so the permanent church was demolished? 2001 Why not link to the actual United Kingdom Census 2001?--Truco 503 22:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC) Reply Thanks for your comments Truco; in order from the top: "A further 16..." sentence amended. I have changed to "officially established church", retaining the wikilink to state religion and adding one to Christian church; hope that is clearer. I haven't been able to find a consistent rule regarding the treatment of church names in articles (especially "St" versus "St."), so my personal rule for consistency is to write all articles with "St" and to use "St" in all lists etc. St Mary's Broadwater was written by another user, who used the "St." convention. I have not moved the article to "St" because there is no clear consensus that this is appropriate, but I can if preferred. I have clarified the wording of the Emmanuel mission hall (although I hope it's not too verbose). Linked to census article now. Hope that all makes sense; I'm writing in a terrible rush because I've got to leave at 6am to catch a plane and it's nearly 11pm! As I will not be back until Tuesday, please could this be left open so I can check any follow-up comments, make any other necessary amendments etc. Thanks, Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 22:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC) Everything looks good, except the St./St argument. According to WP:MOS#Acronyms and abbreviations, if I am reading it right, both are acceptable? Any insight by other reviewers will be helpful. Until he returns.Truco 503 00:27, 20 February 2010 (UTC) You are correct in saying that St and St. are both acceptable on Wiki. I think the usage of "St" contrary to that particular article's name (it's hard to find total consistency on Wikipedia) is fine here. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:33, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- All issues resolved; meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 04:00, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 15:46, 20 February 2010 [18].

---

List of Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim first-round draft picks

Nominator(s): Mm40 (talk) 17:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Another one of the boring draft-pick lists. This is built in the style of the rest, with some minor changes on my part. Pretty interesting; this list contains the only player selected first overall twice and a pitcher born without a right hand who won multiple awards. Review away! Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 17:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - Looks good to me. Lead is concise and to the point, and the list doesn't have any problems as far as I can see. ceranthor 17:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Staxringold talkcontribs 01:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments I like the Jim Abbott note, he really is a unique figure. Yeah, you don't see too many one-handed pitchers. Mm40 (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Ever seen the episode of How I Met Your Mother, "Right Place Right Time"? Staxringold talkcontribs 20:19, 30 January 2010 (UTC) No, but the episode's article tells me all I need to know... Mm40 (talk) 01:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Danny Goodwin needs his Angels draft year in parens. Fixed. Mm40 (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Not in love with the Weaver cite in the image, but *shrug* I don't really like it either, but, unfortunately, there's no other place for it. The paragraph in the lead is more for awards won in MLB by draftees. Mm40 (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC) I think you have to be careful with the combined notes to deal with multiple issues. Notes like "o" work well (They lost their only pick but gained a new one), but notes like "f", "r", and "s" need separation to make it clear who was picked via a pick they got in this particular way. Do you think I could add something like "in that order"? I did it this way because it will be very repetitious, and annoying for the reader to click down and have to read all the way to the end of two separate footnotes saying the same thing. Mm40 (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC) The thing is it isn't repetitive because they're from different teams. The only other note pairs I feel like could be combined in these lists (but I prefer not to) are the compensatory and supplemental picks for Type A free agents (since they are for the same player). Staxringold talkcontribs 20:19, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Does this work? I've separated notes "f" and "r" but modified note "s" (now "u") to include the number of the picks, the players lost, and "respectively". Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 01:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC) The Casey Kotchman image caption is uncited within the article. Ref added in the caption. Mm40 (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Might be worth including an additional cite to the MLB.com draft pages (as I've used in some of these lists) to provide an online cite about Bannister not signing. Staxringold talkcontribs 19:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Additional ref added. Mm40 (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support I still think note u would work better separated, but this works. Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:50, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Got a ref for their former name? Here you go. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:25, 8 February 2010 (UTC) I've added one from USA Today. I prefer non-Baseball-Ref sources whenever possible so we don't appear so dependent one one site. Mm40 (talk) 20:55, 8 February 2010 (UTC) You link California on its second usage, any reason why not the first? I've unlinked all states. Consistency within the article (they're unlinked in table) and WP:LINK specifies not linking common geographic areas that don't add to context. Mm40 (talk) 20:55, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Shouldn't Goodwin being selected in 1971 and then in 1975 be a note in the table as well? Note added. Mm40 (talk) 20:55, 8 February 2010 (UTC) "indicates the number of the pick" - is this the overall pick number made by all franchises during the draft? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:23, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Overall; I've clarified this. Mm40 (talk) 20:55, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment Support – "and three first basemen was also taken." "was" → "were". Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:15, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

fixed. Mm40 (talk) 20:43, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: I've got a couple nitpicks. First off, "No players have been selected from outside the United States." True, but since that paragraph consists mainly of numbers and what they 'have' drafted, I'd write it in reverse, saying that all players selected were born in the U.S. Could be just me though. Also, are their five first-round picks last year a record? Even if not, the sheer quantity I think deserves a lead mention. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

  Done. They've actually twice made first selections, so it can't be that. Basically, it can happen whenever a team loses two valuable free agents, which happens. Mm40 (talk) 23:42, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

  Looks good now, so I'll Support. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:32, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:07, 16 February 2010 [19].

---

List of American League pennant winners

Nominator(s): Staxringold _talk^contribs 17:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Normally I would never nominate a new list this close to my Dodgers nomination below, but as with the National League version of this list this is an emergency job to satisfy requests at the Featured Topic Candidacy for MLB awards. Staxringold _talk^contribs 17:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Mm40 (talk) 13:01, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 "(1901-1968)" in the key needs en-dashes. "40 pennant winning teams" - in the caption, should be pennant-winning Redlink in 1985 Broken HTML tag in 1997 Could use File:Boston Red Sox George W. Bush.jpg as an image somewhere, even though it's got two things I don't like in it. Same with File:WhiteSox President.jpeg Would like to see playoff appearances by franchise in a table. Sorting seems to be broken for two rows in the ALCS-era table for the losing team column only. Works fine for me... Staxringold talkcontribs 18:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Ooops, I meant the losing team record column. 1995 and 1998 are sorting out of order for me on the second click. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 21:02, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Fixed, had missed a couple sort templates. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:07, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Was actually going to ask you before the nom started: mind using a shade of red for the pennant-winners, since it's the league color? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:09, 27 January 2010 (UTC) The issue is this would run into the WS color. I guess we could color the World Series wins in the year and the pennant winners in the team... Staxringold talk contribs 20:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC) No, sorry, WS winners is what I meant. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:55, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Any color is fine, though I think this blue works nicely. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:08, 27 January 2010 (UTC) OK, if you like blue, I like blue. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 21:15, 27 January 2010 (UTC) More later. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:49, 27 January 2010 (UTC) Yepyep, I'm writing the playoff appearance table right now. I'll do those other fixes once it's done. Staxringold talkcontribs 17:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• According to B-Ref, the Tigers were second in 1967.

• If you look again the Twins had precisely the same record. And, since being 2nd carried no particular benefit, I do not believe there were any tiebreak methods for naming a particular team the official "second". Staxringold _talk^contribs 18:13, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• I did see that. How do we interpret the source? I didn't even look for teams with identical records on the NL list. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 18:24, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• I think we have to list both as I did. They are both second, and at least in this case are simply in alphabetical order. I'd like to find another example to see if that's true in general. Staxringold _talk^contribs 18:27, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• Sigh. I'll check it out. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 18:32, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• The 1896 National League shows the Senators above the Brooklyn Bridegrooms for 9th place. Same scenario, same teams in 1897 for 6th place. 1900 has the Cards above the Cubs (or St. Louis before Chicago, don't know which way to look at it) for 5th place. Perhaps most relevant: the Pirates are ahead of the Giants for second place in 1908. All of these are for teams with identical records, and I haven't found any consistency as to who's first when. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 18:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• Going to leave it with both for now until we figured this out. Both the Twins and the Tigers are 1 game back. Staxringold _talk^contribs 20:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• We have discovered what we believe to be the solution: Retrosheet's standings for the 1967 season shows the Tigers ahead of the Twins, as does Baseball-Reference; although they have the same win-loss record and the same winning percentage, the Tigers achieved that record in less games because they had only one tie and the Twins had two. Since ties count as a half-win and a half-loss in the standings, this has no effect on the winning percentage, and there is obviously no effect on the pure win-loss record; however, this means that Detroit accomplished their winning percentage and record in less games that Minnesota, ranking the Tigers second and the Twins third. I'm leaving this comment uncapped so that other reviewers can see, but this list definitely deserves my support, if for no other reason than that Stax puts up with all my crap. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks, removed the not-a-tie. Staxringold _talk^contribs 20:17, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Quick question: In the NL list, I have the "playoff appearances by franchise" table sorted by number of pennants won, since the list is about pennant winners. This one's sorted by playoff appearances. For standard's sake, which one do you want? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:36, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Since the subsection is about playoff appearances I assumed it should be sorted as such. Either one is fine with me, though. Staxringold _talk^contribs 20:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• A fair point. NL list sorted to match AL list. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support - my concerns were addressed when reviewing the near-identical NL list. Though "The format of the ALCS was changed from a best-of-five to a best-of-seven format" - delete redundant use of the word format? Also, as per the NL list, I think that it's worth adding an extra column to link to the ALDS details, it wouldn't be a very wide column and would make these articles much more accessible to the reader. But I'll support nonetheless - rst20xx (talk) 23:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed the format...format thing. As for DS results, that really deserves it's own list at that point if anything. The results are currently at the (poorly structured) ALDS and NLDS pages. Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment Check the toolbox; there is a dead link (one of the baseball-reference.com links is showing as a 403 forbidden). Dabomb87 (talk) 04:20, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Fixing now, I guess B-Ref decided to put the Rays team history at their longer-known name (TBD for Tampa Bay DEVIL Rays as opposed to TBR for Tampa Bay Rays). Staxringold _talk^contribs 05:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:05, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments – Comma after "has taken place in every season since except 1994." Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Hold on a second. Now that I've read that, a year is definitely missing. Are you remembering the 1904 World Series hiatus? The pennants were won, but no Series was played. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Didn't read that sentence properly. My fault. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Hyphen for "five game" in "played one another in the five game ALCS to determine the pennant winner." Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC) How many pennants do the Yankees have since the ALCS began? I'm asking this not for myself, but for the benefit of the readers (correct answer: a lot). Actually not nearly as impressive an amount. I make this point to everyone who whines about Yankees salaries, most of the franchise dominance came prior to the institution of the draft in 1965. It was the dominance of the young player market, where you really get talent, that allowed the Yankees to win so much and have their amazing franchise success. From 1921-1965 the Yankees won 29/44 American League pennants and 20/44 (and 20 of their 27) World Series. Prior to the draft every Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Yogi Berra, and Mickey Mantle young talent would end up on the Yankees unless either the Yankees didn't want them or the player really really didn't want to play for them. From 65-09 (and 69-09, to get at your post-ALCS question) the Yankees have won "just" 11 pennants, and 7 World Series (still the most WS wins in that period, but only just, and many of those were more due to talent development and not big money free agents). Staxringold talkcontribs 20:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Actually, I asked because I thought you could add it to the lead in the appropriate sentence. Just be careful if you type that to a Cubs fan. :-) Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Added. Staxringold talkcontribs 02:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC) Photo caption: "celebrating the Senators 1924 American League pennant". Apostrophe needed for Senators. Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The GA column of the table needs sort templates. It's currently sorting by the first number, which doesn't work for teams that won by 10+ games. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 19:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Yes, the so-called {{sortfrac}} template doesn't work. The Rambling Man also suggested a change to the format of the NLCS-era table that should probably be implemented here as well. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC) And there you go Giants, inserted some forced sorting to make it work. I'll do that style swap in a moment, KV. Staxringold talkcontribs 20:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Support – Meets FL standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:05, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments You abbreviate AL but then refuse to use it... Already used once in "AL Wild Card", but used it again. The problem is it needs to be spelled out in American League Championship Series and American League Division Series. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC) "won a total of 40 American " never really saw a need for the redundant "a total of", and in this case, since you use "total" in the next sentence, I think it'd read better without it. Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Sections - you have a 3.1 but no 3.2, ditto for 4.1.. And..? Staxringold talkcontribs 15:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Just don't understand why you have single subsections, but there's nothing against in MOS. It doesn't make much sense to me, but there you go. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:58, 8 February 2010 (UTC) How would you have me alter it? Unite the two notes sections into one larger full section for notes? Staxringold talkcontribs 16:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Easiest way round this is to just use semi-colon rather than a normal section heading. That way you get bold text like a section heading but it isn't included in the TOC. If that doesn't work for you, don't worry, I need to stop being so nit-picky about these things... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:18, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Sounds good to me, done. Also, half done with the sorting. Just the post-69 table to sort now. Staxringold talkcontribs 16:24, 8 February 2010 (UTC) I'm getting a weird display of fractions in IE7... the bottoms are missing... That's the {{frac}} template's fault. It always does that in IE but not in any other browser I've tried. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Here's another good sorting query: when I sort by total in descending order I get the 32 Yankees on 107-47 before the 31 Athletics on 107-45. Considering they're tied on wins, I would imagine the Athletics should sort above the Yankees having lost two fewer games... this is where {{SortKey}} is your friend... Right you are, fixing. This'll take a little bit, but I'm doin' it. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Sorting's done! Staxringold talkcontribs 16:43, 8 February 2010 (UTC) 1994 colspan note should sort before 0, not between 0 and 1 (when sorting LW). Not sure how to fix that. Staxringold talkcontribs 15:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC) My very inelegant solution was to make the zeroes actually sort as "0.1". It's messy, but it solves the problem. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:56, 8 February 2010 (UTC) That works, done. Staxringold talkcontribs 16:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Aren't most, if not all of your See also links already linked in the lead? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:16, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Probably. Aren't they still worth noting? Staxringold talkcontribs 15:50, 8 February 2010 (UTC) To quote MOS : "Links already integrated into the body of the text are generally not repeated in a "See also" section"... that's where I'm coming from.. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:58, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Ah! I checked, actually ALDS was the only one linked in the lead. Removed that, NLCS/NL pennant winners/WS champs are all meaningful lists not otherwise linked. Staxringold talkcontribs 16:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support thanks for taking care of my nit-pickings...! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:47, 13 February 2010 [20].

---

3000 strikeout club

Nominator(s): Staxringold _talk^contribs 07:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it is up to snuff. Now I realize I have several FLCs already open (oldest first have World Series champs, Red Sox draft picks, Astros draft picks, and .400 OBPers), but I am trying to review as much as possible also (to keep the process rolling) and I believe the WS champs list has pretty much wrapped up anyways. Just want to keep a steady stream of work going. Staxringold _talk^contribs 07:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Note The sorting for the innings pitched column does work, it just doesn't seem to like the frac template. If you click it to sort just once it sorts all the IP totals with no frac value into a group regardless of their true order, but if you click it a couple times it properly sorts. Anyone know why? Worst case I could just put sort templates in there with the proper order built in to try and force a sort. Staxringold _talk^contribs 07:03, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Mm40 (talk) 14:07, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

• Quick Comment In your key you list the first column as Player but your first column is listed as Pitcher. Also Roger Clemus' IP column doesn't have a comma while all the others do.Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 10:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed! Staxringold _talk^contribs 15:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - "U The batter Walter Johnson struck out for #3000 was Charlie Jamieson, Steve O'Neill, or Stan Coveleski.[3]" I would think it should be "was either Charlie Jamieson, Steve O'Neill, or Stan Coveleski.[3]". Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 16:25, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed! Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:31, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• I was just wondering another very minor issue, but since Reference #3 is used extensively in the table if it'd be better to switch it to a General reference. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk}

• I could, if other reviewers would accept that format. I always prefer specific to general refs when possible. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:40, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• Quick Comment - The Template at the bottom is dead Template:3,000 strikeout club. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 22:56, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed. Apologies, in "fixing" the delimiting on the template title I actually made the "View this template" link point to a non-existent version with a comma. Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:59, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support - I have no issues with the list it all seems to check out. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 22:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 If you're delimiting number in the table, you should delimit in the prose too. "16 pitchers in total have reached 3000 strikeouts" - would prefer In total, 16 pitchers have reached 3000 strikeouts "first Walter Johnson while the team was the Washington Senators then Bert Blyleven joined in 1986 with Minnesota" - seems awkward that there's no punctuation here. "within the past 5 seasons" - five "7 pitchers from this club were named amongst the 100 greatest players in MLB history as part of the All-Century Team, 4 of whom were eventually voted as starters for the team by fan vote." - since 7 begins the sentence, the numbers should be changed to seven, one hundred, and four. Is "3000th" necessary in the table headers if it's made clear in the key? Is the table width fixed for a reason? I think ref 3 is fine, personally. Hope these comments help. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:54, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Fixed everything you asked for. I've fixed the table width to allow for the images without overlapping the table on small displays. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:08, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Does the title need to be moved to "3,000"? Just wondering. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• I wondered about that as well when I delimited the bolded number. Sadly I see no standing FL to use as a reference guide with a potentially delimited title (the only 4 digit #s in titles are years. Damn motorbike races we only have 125, 250, and 500 cc). I'd love someone else's view on this, but I'd happily move it. Staxringold _talk^contribs 02:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• I'd think it should be, but I'm fine with either. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 02:36, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Support from KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:00, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments (being as picky as I dare to be...) Is it 3000 or 3,000? Lead is different from title... Ok, moved. KV5 had a similar question. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:14, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "quickest pitcher to 3,000 strikeouts" perhaps "pitcher quickest", just to remove ambiguity that it's not that he pitched quicker than anyone else? Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC) " Baseball Hall of Fame.[5][6] Nine of the ten eligible members of the 3,000 strikeout club have been elected to the Hall. Hall of Fame eligibility" - Hall repeats a little too often for my sensitive eyes. Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "been retired five seasons"[7], - not sure on that ref placement, would prefer post-comma... Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "he fell just 5 votes " remove just, otherwise it appears (to me) you're trying to sympathise with his plight... I am, but fixed. :) Staxringold talkcontribs 22:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Put (MLB) after the Major League Baseball so that we know what you mean when you say MLB. Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC) That IP sorting needs to be... sorted. Like I said in the nom, not sure what to do. It just straight doesn't like the sometimes-use of the frac template. I'll try putting in forced sorting. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC) There we go, {{nts}} fixed it. Normal sorting doesn't like delimited numbers. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC) "is one of only two left-handed pitchers" is this explicitly referenced anywhere or do I have to go and find it out from the other sources? (that link's a little harsh but you get my point?) The Rambling Man (talk) 21:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC) It's on their B-Ref pages, I'll add an additional ref to them just to make it clear. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment I notice that the title was moved from "3000" to "3,000". Note that the MOS accepts both, so the move was not absolutely necessary. I don't care either way, although I think if possible the title should reflect what the majority of the sources call it. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• That varies entirely depending on whether the individual source delimits the numbers or not. Staxringold _talk^contribs 05:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Fine, but note that there are several other such lists that need to be moved for consistency (e.g. 3000 hit club). Dabomb87 (talk) 16:54, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Yupyup, as those articles are delimited and updated, so should the titles. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Support – Read through the list and saw no major issues, though I'm personally not a big fan of "first...then" sentences. That's my opinion only, so I won't hold it against this particular article. I was hoping to find a free link to the 2005 Chicago Tribune story for use here, but their online archive only goes back to 2006. Oh well. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment "The batter Walter Johnson struck out for #3,000 was either Charlie Jamieson, Steve O'Neill, or Stan Coveleski." We don't use "#" in prose per the MOS, so this sentence needs to be rephrased. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 02:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support. Some of the sentences are not necessarily written exactly as I'd like, but there's nothing really wrong with them, it's just more of a preference issue. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 00:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:47, 13 February 2010 [21].

---

Austin Aztex all-time roster

Nominator(s): ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets all the criteria. It is modelled in large part on List of Seattle Sounders FC players, which seems to be heading for FL status at the moment. This is my first attempt at writing an article in American English (I am British), so please point out any turns of phrase which aren't correct for "Stateside talk". And anything else that needs changing too, of course.... ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Gifton Noel-Williams. I was wondering where he had gotten to! This looks pretty good, and the things that are missing from the Seattle list are probably not appropriate here (i.e. international appearances). The one thing I would say is that the Seattle Sounders list was renamed, because some players had played for the club but were never actually on Seattle's "roster". I don't know if any of the Aztecs' players were centrally contracted (i.e. employed by USL, rather than the club), but if so it might be worth considering a similar change. Clearly I'm somewhat biased, but FWIW I'm happy to lend my support. WFCforLife (talk) 14:16, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:43, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Rawlins not notable enough for a redlink (despite founding this mighty club?) I have redlinked him for now Perhaps worth a note/ref to explain "affiliation agreement". Fleshed out a bit Just a quickie - is the bolding of Aztec Aztex in the lead strictly correct per our MOS, since it isn't the title of the article? It's not a big deal at all... Dunno, I was just mirroring the lead of the Sounders article mentioned above "In 2010 the team will play its home games at House Park..." makes it sound like they didn't play there before? I know this is a roster, not a history article, but you know what I mean? They didn't play there before - have reworded "both McMahen and Brown were released " - don't want to get all ORish but any reason why you can find? After what was perceived as an incredibly disappointing season, they released over half the roster, so these players weren't singled out in particular, have reworded slightly One thing I noticed before which could be confusing to non-US readers, do these US seasons run in a complete year, i.e. not span over Xmas like ours? Only reason is you have 2009 for the year of every single player... Effectively what I'm saying is that the "year" column seems to apply only if the player has played in that actual year, not if they're contracted in that actual year... again, I'm confusing myself, but do you get what I'm saying? Not really. The US soccer season is indeed confined within one calendar year, so to date all these players have only played in 2009. Not sure what change needs to be made. "Miguel Gallardo played fifteen times..." 14 in the table. Corrected I know it's the template, but ref 2 has a spare . Fixed The Rambling Man (talk) 18:54, 13 January 2010 (UTC) Many thanks for your comments -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment One quick thing. You might want to be careful with the image captions. They're fine for now that the club has only existed the one year, but as time and seasons pass the "in the first season" factoids won't be sourced by the table anymore (since they will include multiple seasons of statistics). Fine so long as you keep them updated, but could be annoying. Staxringold _talk^contribs 23:55, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I promise to keep an eye on them and keep them updated -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
• Comment Why the titular inconsistency? This article should be called List of Austin Aztex players to be consistent with all the other player FLs. Reywas92^Talk 00:41, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I have no idea, I didn't name the article. All the other articles linked in the template at the bottom follow the same naming scheme. I'm not fussed either way, I'll change it if people think it needs changing -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:58, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
    • US soccer clubs seem to have an "all-time roster" while the rest of the world has "list of .. players". Per Chris, I'm not fussed either way as well/either/whatever...! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
      • Note also the existence of existing FLs such as Hartford Dark Blues all-time roster -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:23, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Support then. I see no other problems. Reywas92^Talk 01:52, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment The Key I would think it wouldn't hurt for it to be a in table. Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 11:13, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Done -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:21, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Provisional support – Looks mostly very good. Just one thing I saw during my reading: the NASL's abbreviation is not needed since it isn't used anywhere else. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Check Reference #5. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 00:09, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I removed it. I have no idea whether its use in one of the references (as opposed to the article proper) means it should be put back in.......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:17, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
    • If it's just in a reference title, as I think, I don't believe it's required. That would be really picky, even by my standards. I've always known abbreviations to be meant for use in the body of a page, not the citations in it. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support - I see no problems with the list, everything looks to be good. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 22:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:00, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) As an Austinite it would be criminal if I didn't review this. I do wonder what got you interested in this particular club... "a British-born entrepreneur" You can't have been born in "British"... "In 2010 the team will play its home games at House Park," We are now in 2010. Any more specifics on the "when"? "the Aztex used a total of thirty outfield players" I think there's a better verb than "used" out there. Would "fielded" work? "Mexican-born Miguel Gallardo" Same comment as the first. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC) All done, I think. In Britain we do actually say "British-born", "Mexican-born", etc., eg this and this. Two countries separated by a common language etc etc :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I would personally rename it to Austin Aztex all-time roster, or at least something consistent with other lists of this type. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:19, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, as I see it the only outstanding issues with the article are that two people think the title should be changed, but, unfortunately, have wildly differing views as to what it should be changed to. How do we proceed from here.............? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:00, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Looks like Reywas is fine with "All-time", though I think Wizardman is right in saying that "All-time" should be moved after "Austin Aztex". Dabomb87 (talk) 01:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Then would someone also mind moving the related articles (Template:USL-1 all-time rosters)? The name/grammar is fine either way, but there should be consistency. Very nice job on the article. Reywas92^Talk 03:08, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Wow, I did not notice that so many lists followed that naming convention. Maybe we should discuss this in a more centralized place? Personally, I think that "all-time" should come immediately before the word it is most directly modifying ("roster"), but am willing to hear other opinions on this. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the articles in Category:NBA all-time rosters follow the "<name of team> all-time roster" convention rather than the "All-time <name of team> roster" format followed by soccer articles. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:32, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

So should I go ahead and move this one now...........? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:53, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't mind if it's done now. However, eventually we will have to deal with the inconsistencies with other articles... Dabomb87 (talk) 22:59, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I've moved it -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:08, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:47, 13 February 2010 [22].

---

Aurealis Award for best horror novel

Nominator(s): Salavat (talk) 14:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, basically the same as the recently nominated Aurealis Award for best fantasy novel (FLC) page with a few minor changes. There is an additionally sentence added to the lead commenting on the 'no award' situation otherwise thats about it. Salavat (talk) 14:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Support Nice job and good luck. Reywas92^Talk 03

06, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Could the name please be Aurealis Award for best horror novel? Since this is the main article for the award, the very bulky "winners and nominees" in the title is completely unnecessary. Compare with Academy Award for Best Picture.

Im a bit reluctant to change the page as i based it of two previous FL mentioned on my previous FLC for the fantasy novel and the issue didnt come up for the last FLC. Maybe wait a bit to see if anyone else has anything to add. Salavat (talk) 03:40, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Reywas, not so much because of the bulkiness but because it makes readers think that there's an article about the award itself. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:51, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok well im all up for changing it. Would it be more appropriate to move it now or after the after the FL nom is finished? Salavat (talk) 02:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Feel free to move it now; I can take care of everything else (moving the FLC nomination, fixing links, etc.) Dabomb87 (talk) 02:49, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

and moved. Salavat (talk) 02:53, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Sp. "hounarable"

Took out the "u". Salavat (talk) 03:40, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

• "No award given" is not a complete sentence.

Removed the "stop". Salavat (talk) 03:40, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

• "Parenthesis" is singular

I believed i fixed this? Salavat (talk) 03:40, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Great article overall. Reywas92^Talk 21:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:00, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Pretty good list, just a few comments: "if there is complete agreement" By complete. do you mean unanimous? I think the latter would be a more accurate word. Changed to unanimous. Salavat (talk) 02:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC) There really is no need for Australia to be linked in the infobox. Most English speakers know where it is, and nothing in that article aids understanding in this one. Delinked. Salavat (talk) 02:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC) I have two comments about the notes about the parentheses in the tables. Link imprint The note is a bit vague. It's not the parentheses themselves that denote imprints, but the publisher names in them. Perhaps say "Publisher names in parentheses indicate the imprint under which the book was published." Changed and linked. Salavat (talk) 02:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC) My only other opinion is that the article should be moved per Reywas' suggestion; see my comment above. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:06, 18 January 2010 (UTC) Ok ill move it just a query posted above on when it should be moved. Salavat (talk) 02:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support I see nothing wrong with the page. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 23:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Support from Mm40 (talk)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

Comment full review will be done, but please explain why there were no winners in 1996, 1998, and 2005. Mm40 (talk) 17:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Its been explained, see second paragraph, 5th sentence. Salavat (talk) 02:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC) The infobox needs a reference for "Currently held by" Mm40 (talk) 16:24, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Its referenced in the main body of the article, isnt the infobox like the lead, in that if you reference in the main you dont reference in the lead? Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) I don't see a mention on "Honey Brown" anywhere in the lead. Mm40 (talk) 16:24, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Honey Brown been the current winner is referenced in the 2009 section of the article, i was only using the lead as an example, but seemed to confuse it. In short i dont think i need to reference the infobox if its referenced in the main body. Salavat (talk) 16:35, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Wow, that was dumb of me. I thought "currently held by" meant the venue that hosts the award ceremony. Apologies. Mm40 (talk) 21:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC) You don't need to link "novel" in the second paragraph Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) "from the list of submitted" can you change "the" to "a"? "the" makes it sound like the long list was already discussed. Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) The sentence beginning "Tie situations can occur" could use some commas. Also, why not just "Ties" instead on "Tie situations"? Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) "of the nominees is worthy" -> "of the nominees are worthy" Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Should "Awards" in "Awards management team" have an apostrophe? Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Shouldn't "and high commendation" be "and high commendations" (plural)? Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Use a normal apostrophe for "Annthony O’Neill" to make it link to the existing article (Anthony O'Neill) Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Also use a normal apostrophe for "Tracey O’Hara" Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Why is the Ditmar Award listed under See also if it's a sci-fi award? Well its really a speculative fiction award because it also allows fantasy and horror, but they call it a science fiction award. Ill remove it if you think it still doesnt belong Picky, I know, but again, change the apostrophe in ref 21. Fixed. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) You can add Category:Horror awards Added. Salavat (talk) 16:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Otherwise, this all looks good, and I'm happy to support. Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 14:19, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:47, 13 February 2010 [23].

---

Shortlist Music Prize

Nominator(s): RB88 (T) 01:24, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Let's see what the FLC fuss is all about. Like the award, modelled on the Mercury Prize. RB88 (T) 01:24, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:31, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments (hmm, using the Mercury Prize, eh? Good choice...!) ;) RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) US-centric article, so should "stylised" be "stylized"? Same with modelled and honoured perhaps. Don't see any massive national ties. But there wasn't that much Yanklish to do. RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) How much is/was "the cash prize"? It varied each year (and even had gifts or charity donations sometimes), so that's why I kept it simple. RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) "sponsored for the i" sponsored the prize... ? DONE RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) " in future years" the following years? DONE RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) "N.E.R.D famously received " maybe it's just me but what made it so "famous"? Well, it was a quirk more than anything, but DONE RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) "became an awaited event" just me, once more, but this reads oddly for me. perhaps "an anticipated award"? Not sure... DONE RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Is that link to Cee-Lo the one you want? DONE RB88 (T) 00:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Turn on the Bright Lights should be Turn On the Bright Lights. Check other album titles are per Wikipedia article titles. DONE. Lifted or The Story Is in the Soil, Keep Your Ear to the Ground has two titles so the "the" has to be in caps. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support I made a few copy-edits to the lead, but the list otherwise looks good. One thing: I saw that you changed "won" to "were successful". I know that close repetition in prose is usually frowned upon, but I think the parallel structure makes the repeated "won"s work here. Also, the current phrasing might make the reader think that "were successful" means something different from "won". However, it's a not a big deal. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:23, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I know, I know, repetition is a pet peeve of mine. I tried to find a better synonym, but that's all I could come with. Although, I think that following the sentence's initial clause before the colon, it should be clear we're talking about winners. Plus win is used three time in that same sentence just in case there was any ambiguity. RB88 (T) 23:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
    • Good points. Like I said, the issue is not a big deal, and your explanations are satisfactory. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:32, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support - I can't find anything and think its a pretty solid job. Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 11:53, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Cheers. RB88 (T) 06:26, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Mm40 (talk) 19:28, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Cheers. RB88 (T) 17:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

*Shouldn't it be "was an annual music award" as it's no longer being presented? It's never been discontinued, nor has there been news of the end. The website continues normally. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) "for only that year following" could be "for a year following" Done. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) "sponsored the award in the inaugural year only" again there's that "only". Perhaps "sponsored the inaugural ceremony" Done. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) You can take out "were successful" I can't. All the parts of the second half of the sentence have verbs which were added after Dabomb's ce (see above). RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) The last column can simple be "Refs", as multiple references are provided for each entry. Done. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Can albums beginning with "The" be sorted as the word after it? Not really. That would defy the artists who actually named them a certain way and it wouldn't be accurate. They're alphabetical anyway. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) I think there could be a column in the table for pictures of the winning group (à la Grammy Legend Award). Presently, the table is very wide and the images seem cramped. I modelled this on The Rambling Man's Mercury Prize. I think it's a very nice layout and much better than the Grammy one, which made me squint a few times. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) In the first ALT text, you may need to describe the (shôrt–lĭst) styling, as it's going to be read to blind visitors. Removed the stylings. I think knowing it's called short-list is enough. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) All the ALT texts should at least mention gender Done. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Rice's ALT text can be expanded (all of them can, really). Mention the microphone, what he's wearing, etc. Done. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Feist's ALT text needs to be expanded. "A vocalist with a guitar performing on stage" is not helpful Done. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Much better. Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) An External links section should be created to house a link to the award's website. Mm40 (talk) 17:32, 23 January 2010 (UTC) I had it, but it was just a repetition of the one in the infobox, thus redundant. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Yeah, didn't see that. Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Comments from Mm40 (talk). Response: I've capped issues that were resolved and responded to some others. Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) "that has sold fewer than" I think "has" is redundant "At the time of nomination" warrants that verb tense. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) My issue isn't verb tense, it's that the sentence would sound better and still be grammatically correct without "has". Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) That is verb tense surely: the present perfect "has sold" versus the preterite "sold". Again, I have to say the "at the time nomination" requires the present perfect. RB88 (T) 14:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC) "given in cash prize form in 2001" might be better as "given as a cash prize in 2001". The current "cash prize form" sounds a bit odd. I get ya, and I had it like that, but didn't want to repeat "as" twice in quick succession. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Well currently, the article repeats "in" three words apart, as opposed to "as" five words apart and "form" not being needed. (I hope that made sense, it's too early for me...) Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Yeah alright. RB88 (T) 14:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Are there any images of the trophy? Not free anyway. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) You might be able to make a fair-use claim, but images aren't my strong point, so won't bug you. Also, there's no real place to put it. Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) It'll be hard to claim fair use as it will need a LOT of critical commentary. It's not that special an award anyway unlike say the Grammy. RB88 (T) 14:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC) What does "continued to be held" mean? As far as I can gather, there was were no ceremonies between '06 and '07. I'm confused. Course there were awards in 06 and 07. The sentence actually makes clear "until the last given prize for 2007". RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) OK, the last paragraph describes the award chronologically. The last date talked about before the "continued to be held" sentence is March 2006. To me, "continued to be help" implies that awards were given periodically between March '06 and '07. Sorry I don't see any ambiguity in "The award ceremony continued to be held in the early part of years until the last given prize for 2007." I.e. Award cermony --> annual --> held in early part of year --> until 2007 prize. RB88 (T) 14:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Have you considered expanding with Music Prize&f=false this or Music Prize&f=false this from Billboard? Thanks. The last one didn't add much to the summated lead. The first had a bit of info that was worth it. I also have to say that most of the ventures mentioned or speculated year by year never materialised for this award. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Not specifically talking talking about those sources, but because this is the only related entry of this award on Wikipedia, you should try to be comprehensive with as much information as you can. This may require splitting out and creating a separate section talk about the award itself, not the winners. This is only needed if more sources are found. Also, you can add the Google Books link (see my argument against your fear of dead links below). Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) It is as comprehensive as required. Criteria, ceremony, commercial each with a paragraph. It's a seven-year old indie award. I don't think people expect magnum opuses, or mountains of available sources. I've checked all the archives. Any other material is a duplicate of what's here. The only differences are year-by-year nuances and sponsors, but those will require to be put in 2001 Shortlist Music Prize etc should those articles be created. This is the general one, again like the Mercury Prize. RB88 (T) 14:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC) This states the date of ref 2 (Mumbi Moody, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) was October 23, not October 31. Also, the article is available at Google News, so adding the link would be nice. The date of the paper I read was 31 (WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT). I also don't like to add Google News links. I'm a dead tree fetishist and think we need to encourage readers and editors to branch out (pun intended), especially for featured quality articles. RB88 (T) 11:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Personally, I think it makes it easier verify. Also, per this, it's allowed, and there really is no harm. Check every once in a while to make sure they're still alive. If they die, replace them, or, if you want, you can use the Wayback Machine. IMO, it makes the article better. Mm40 (talk) 12:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Well, verifying only tends to happen during featured processes. You and others here have seen the sources, I just don't like to add Google links. Readers can see the info in the text, they don't need to verify anything on the assumption that this process has taken care of that and given a bronze star. RB88 (T) 14:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Dabs, links, contributors, and alt text check out fine. Lead Per MOS:BOLD, don't bold other names that aren't the title of the article. If you want to emphasize a name, use italics or quotations. The other names aren't really synonyms since they were one time names. DONE. RB88 (T) 20:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Actually, re-read WP:MOSBOLD, it says alternative names can be bolded..., to whit: "The most common use of boldface is to highlight the article title, and often synonyms, in the lead section (first paragraph). This is done for the vast majority of articles, but there are exceptions. See Lead section – Format of the first sentence for in-depth coverage." The Rambling Man (talk) 21:11, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Yeah, but the other names aren't really synonyms, they are one time names. Like Grammy awards and Grammys are synonyms.--Truco 503 23:08, 11 February 2010 (UTC) I've started a discussion about this at Wikipedia talk:Lead section#Bolding_variants of titles. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC) TBH, I'm not that fussed. I doubt it removes or adds much. RB88 (T) 22:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC) Change this sentence to: The majority of the seven winners so far have been singer-songwriters: Irishman Damien Rice won in 2003,[3] Americans Sufjan Stevens and Cat Power were successful in 2005 and 2006, respectively,[4][8] and Canadian Feist won in 2007. --a comma is needed before respectively. DONE. RB88 (T) 20:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Theres no explanation (in any source) as to why it was stopped in '07? Because it hasn't, that's why it says "is an award". There's been no news about its end. It's more of a hiatus (probably because of the recession). RB88 (T) 20:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC) I would probably state that, or it will make the article sound a bit outdated.--Truco 503 23:08, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Added a hiatus note in the box. There aren't any specific sources, so what the text says is what's available really. It sums it up pretty well in my opinion. RB88 (T) 22:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC) Table Shortlisted is in terms of the name of the award or in general like they were on the list but didn't win? Works both ways really (and accurately). RB88 (T) 20:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Ah, gotcha.--Truco 503 23:08, 11 February 2010 (UTC) External links No template for the winners?--Truco 503 01:40, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Does that really affect the decision for an article to be made FA or FL? I would put it if it existed but really cannot be bothered to make it. If someone does, then fair enough. RB88 (T) 20:57, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Template/category (pref) would be fine, but has no bearing at all on this FLC. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:11, 11 February 2010 (UTC) It was just a suggestion that would enhance the article but not affect its FLC.--Truco 503 23:08, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- previous issues resolved; now meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 23:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 15:47, 13 February 2010 [24].

---

Bayreuth canon

Nominator(s): Peter cohen (talk) 16:54, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I now believe that the article is as complete as is appropriate for this self-contined topic. I have just closed and archived a peer review Wikipedia:Peer review/Bayreuth canon/archive1 carried out by an experienced reviewer and creator of featured content who has good knowledge of the subject of this article. He has not sought to discourage me from applying for featured list status.

Rather than being in essay form, the article consists mainly of a definition list and a table giving performance details of the ten members of the canon. I therefore think that featured list is the way to go.

This is a self-nomination, my first for featured list though I have contributed as second author of a featured article and took some part in resolving issues at FAC. I am also an occasional contributer at FAC and related pages.Peter cohen (talk) 16:54, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support: An important addition to the stock of Wagneriana.
  • No disambiguation links
  • All ext. links working
  • Image licences OK and alt text present. The alt text is somewhat overdetailed and could be trimmed.
  • In the table the information is slightly obscured by a preponderance of inline citations - every cell has at least one. A possible remedy is to group each line's citations in a references column - see List of works for the stage by Wagner for the general idea. This might make the table seem a little less cluttered.

Brianboulton (talk) 17:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

• • • Thanks, Brian. I've trimmed the alt text a little. As far as the refs are concerned, I started putting them in all the individual boxes after seeing other FLs laid out like that. All the links in the last two columns are to the Bayreuth stats page. I could maybe ref the column headers and clear the boxes. As I don't get all the information in each row from the same place, I am hesitant to have a ref box at the end of rows that then mention several sources without being clear which says what. Let's see what other people say.--Peter cohen (talk) 00:51, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
      • I have now folded the refs for the last two columns up into the headings.--Peter cohen (talk) 15:21, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support: Like Brian Bolton, I find this important and useful addition to the information on both Wagner's operas and the Bayreuth Festival. The information is clearly presented and complete and very well referenced. I'm not wild about the yellow fields and am not sure how useful they are (especially since yellow as a 'code' is serving two different functions - "introduced by RW" and "part of the Ring Cycle" with disambiguation coming from the † ‡ symbols. Perhaps use a different colour for one of the two functions or just use the symbols? But that's a very minor point. Voceditenore (talk) 11:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Vdt. I've now introduced some pink. Before Brian's peer-review I had a lot more colour-coding and did have to re-use some. I obviously don't need to now.--Peter cohen (talk) 15:21, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:06, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) This looks like a very well done list. I don't know much about the content area, so most of my comments are related to style and formatting: I don't necessarily think that this article should be merged into another, but can you convince me that it would be unreasonable to integrate the meat of this article into, say, Bayreuth Festival? The phrase has a semi-independent existence e.g. in a Canadian concert programme: "(Wagner's other historical opera is Rienzi, which he didn’t quite disown, but excluded it from the “Bayreuth canon”.)"; when detailing an opera house's programme for this year: "The last of Wagner’s early trio of operas that failed to make the cut for inclusion in the Bayreuth canon is a grandiose saga about struggling for power in 14th century Rome;" In discussing the impact of the Musical Director of the major opera house in Chile "the Teatro Municipal has now done all ten works of the ‘Bayreuth canon’ (six plus the Ring)". None of these instances mention the festival per se. People who have read any of these or the many similar quotes would want to identify what is meant by the phrase. A second factor is that such facts as Solti's being the first conductor to record the canon in the studio is appropriate to record here, but not in an article on the festival itself. Of course, the term takes it's name from the festival and usese the pseudo-religious that has grown up around Bayreuth. These operas were canonised by Wagner and his heirs by being staged at the "Shrine of St. Wagner" as Mark Twain called it; Wagnerites go on a pilgrimage there as Twain and many others have written, and Parsifal "consecrated" the stage of the Bayreuth Festspielhaus as Wagner himself said.--Peter cohen (talk) 13:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Can you add perhaps a sentence or two giving a basic definition of Bayreuth Festival (what is it, where and when is it held)? It is referred to several times so I don't think readers should have to click away to the main article to find out the basic gist of it. I've expanded the description in the first paragraph.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Per the MOS, image captions that are sentence fragments should not have sentence-ending punctuation (i.e. period / full stop). Sample: "Richard Wagner and his second wife Cosima, who established the Bayreuth canon." Done.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Bold is normally used only for the name of the article so I don't think the components of the canon should be bolded. That's actually a definition list which I understood was the correct mechanism to use.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:16, 19 January 2010 (UTC) "a total of 2442 performances have" "a total of" seems redundant. Done.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Any reason that some operas have English translations and others do not? The four I've not translated have the same names as their protagonists. (Actually it should really be Tannhauser and the Song Contest at the Wartburg but nobody uses the full name in normal contexts.)--Peter cohen (talk) 14:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC) The article uses a mixture of day month year and month day, year date formats. Use one format throughout. If you use the month-first format note that a comma follows the day. All now dmy.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC) In most of your references you have "accessed on <date>" but one has "viewed <date>". Was this intentional? Dabomb87 (talk) 02:00, 19 January 2010 (UTC) All now "accessed <date>" including the "link checked" I spotted.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Thank you for your comments. I shall deal with them point by point above.--Peter cohen (talk) 13:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Ps. It's useful having someone do the nitpicky stuff and those who don't understand the topic are often best palced for that task.--Peter cohen (talk) 14:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support Etincelles ^(talk) 16:44, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support - A good, well sourced list--Pianoplonkers (talk • contribs) 07:22, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Support Mm40 (talk) 12:11, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

Comments from Mm40 (talk) I'd feel more comfortable supporting if you recruited an experienced copy-editor (read: not me) to go over this article with a fine-toothed comb. The prose seems, for the lack of a better word, clumsy in places. Even if this is promoted before a copy-edit is done, the article would benefit from one afterwards I have accepted GTs offer below.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) The grammar in the first alt text needs to be checked: "A couple are shown" -> "A couple is shown", "and is sat sideways" -> "and is sitting sideways". I could argue about these but have changed them.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Some introduction to Wagner would be nice; nothing major, just nationality and lifespan. those have been added.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) "the directorship of members of his family" Done. Given the family feuds Im tempted to claim that the original was more accurate.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Remove the space after the colon Done.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) On the sentence beginning "Wagner dubbed the opera", it's a bit odd that you're providing of the translation of the translation, if you understand what I'm saying. You might want to cut out "which opera producer Mike Ashman interprets as meaning a "festival work to consecrate a stage"" Ive reworded it slightly. The translation is Ashman's and then I have paraphrased his gloss on it where he is at pains to downplay the quasi-religious interpretation and play up the financial one. (There are various quasi-religious practices that have developed around Parsifal such as not applauding the first act that includes a Communion scene which Ashman argues against.)--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) "the highly influential one" makes it sound like the reader knows about this new production, you might just remove the part I quoted Ive removed the "highly". This is probably the most famous production of the opera and would be familiar to Wagnerites. The Beckett ref at the end of the sentence is to its being influential. "but over a much extended timescale" -> "but over an extended timescale" Done-Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Can you combine the last two sentences of the entry on the third component? I've had a go at this.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) The first sentence of the second-to-last paragraph could be made to connect better. Currently, it sounds like the two ideas are completely unrelated I've tried reordering the paragraph.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Can "three earlier completed operas" be reworded simply as "first three operas"? Reworded to "the first three" as part of the reworking--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Referring to Solti, how can a conductor have recorded pieces? Reworded.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) The table key is formatted a bit differently than I usually see (this is purely stylistic, so feel free to ignore me). Generally, One column has the symbol with color and the other has an explanation of its meaning. Also, the explanations generally don't include the columns the symbol is used in. reworked Again, this is stylistic, but consider 1) centering the "Opera" column for consistency, and 2) making symbols in the table subscript to remove table clutter Ive made them superscripts as Im more used to seeing them as those than as subs.Centring done--Peter cohen (talk) 23:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC) References In the first note, remove "e.g."; that means "for example", and you already say "for examples" once done--Peter cohen (talk) 23:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC) I can't find the MoS guideline, but the second part of dash ranges should not have only one digit. Thus, in page numbers, "pp.92–4" should be "pp.92–94" done.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Note 15 needs a period/full stop done--Peter cohen (talk) 23:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC) No books have ISBNs? They should all have them now part form the John(ed) Lohengrin programme.--Peter cohen (talk) 00:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC) Some books have publication locations while others don't; be consistent I think this depends on whether I ofund them via googlebooks or I have a hard copy. I'll see what I can find. Should all have locations now.--Peter cohen (talk) 00:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC) In the last of John's works under Sources (39 Tannhäuser), do you mean to say "Guide" twice, and what is "1989" doing at the end? fixed.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Kinderman & Syer needs a comma after the title fixed--Peter cohen (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC) What's with the external link with Loomis? It's because there's a wikilink to Glimmerglass Opera. Do you want it removed?--Peter cohen (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Does "Morgan, S." have a first name? added.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC) The New York Times needs commas between "The New York Times", the date, and the page number. Mm40 (talk) 03:01, 11 February 2010 (UTC) done.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks for your input. I think everything is addressed.--Peter cohen (talk) 00:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Support, now that the issues below have been sorted out. GuillaumeTell

• I've added a heading "Components" to create an extra section which a) makes the lead shorter and b) moves the TOC up. Hope that's uncontroversial.
• I'll be happy to do some copy-editing as suggested above and may be able to fit that in later today. I've been involved in copy-editing some other articles on their way to FA: William Shakespeare, Her Majesty's Theatre, H.M.S. Pinafore, a few others, and am familiar with the subject and with WP:Wagner.

• • I'm now scrutinising the article and have immediately hit a few problems:
    1. The word canon might be unfamiliar to some readers. WP and Wictionary definitions use the sense intended here only for literary works (Shakespeare et al) but not musical ones - indeed, the word "canon" in music is defined only as the musical form. Perhaps the WP article, at least, might need to be changed?
       • Western canon links the Wikidictionary entry where the meaning is buried down the list. At the Wikipedia entry canon it is the third entry we are talking about. This search turnd up a few uses of "musical canon" in this sense. You could alter the article in that way. I'm not sure that decisions on the content of other articles are reason to hold up this FLC. Nor can I see it as particularly helpful to link either the wikipedia or wikktionary articles on canon when the relevant meaning is some way down the list in each case.--Peter cohen (talk) 21:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
    2. The first sentence refers to "music dramas or operas". However, "music drama" redirects to gesamtkunstwerk, which says that Wagner disapproved of the term. Would it not be better to say something like "total works of art (gesamtkunstwerks)" and forget about music dramas?
    3. But then, did Wagner mean this term to be used of all the works in the Bayreuth canon? Weren't the earliest three termed Romantische Opern?
       • I've opted to remove the reference altogether. I've looked at Millington's article in Grove which talks about Wagner trying out "Festspiel" and "Handlung" and asking readers of his article Über die Benennung ‘Musikdrama’ to come up with suggestions. SP I don't think we can say that Wagner was that happy with GKW either. Im sure I saw somewhere that he rechsristened the romantic operas as dramas.--Peter cohen (talk) 21:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
    4. I'm not very happy with "Attendance at the festival is often considered in mystic terms as a pilgrimage by Wagnerians." What are mystic terms? What is a Wagnerian? How about "Many devotees of Wagner (known as Wagnerians) regard attendance at the festival (?Festival?) as akin to a pilgrimage"? - that is, if this formulation fits the reference!
       • I've reworded it somewhat and added an 1891 Mark Twain article as an additional reference.--Peter cohen (talk) 21:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
  • I've now been through the rest of the article - added a few commas, moved things around a bit, altered some of the phraseology, done some clarification, put in another heading, etc. I don't think that there's anything controversial there, but do contact me if I've messed anything up. I haven't touched the tables! --GuillaumeTell 18:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
    • I've tweaked things a bit more. The biggest issue may be that you've removed the mention of Wagner's nationality which I inserted per another editor's request above.--Peter cohen (talk) 21:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
      • I don't have any problem with your comments or revisions. I recast the opening sentence and the nationality then didn't really fit in easily. Update - I've now put it back. --GuillaumeTell 22:18, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:16, 12 February 2010 [25].

---

List of Baccano! episodes

Nominator(s): ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I've compared it to similar FLs and I've worked on it to the best of my ability. I feel it also meets the criteria. A note: the series is told in a non-linear format, so some things may read weird. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 00:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support. Went through and did a quick copy-edit. As Itzjustdrama indicated, this series is really confusing, and the plot summary reflects that, so bear with it while reading. — sephiroth bcr ^(converse) 03:49, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support. References look great, plot may be confusing but understandable overall. DragonZero (talk · contribs) 09:43, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support. Having watched the series, I can also attest to the confusing manner in which the story is presented in the show itself. The summary simply follows that while detailing the events as clearly as is possible. My only niggle is that a ref in the lead could be moved to the end of the line instead of being next to a comma.Dandy Sephy (talk) 11:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
  • It has been moved. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 11:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support - my head hurts after that plot, but everything seems to check out. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 23:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:54, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments "of Baccano!.[3]" do we need that period? I believe so...the series' title include the exclamation point, so I believe it doesn't count as the ending punctuation mark. But I'm not really sure. I'll probably rearrange the sentence later to avoid the problem. I rearranged the sentence so it reads: "On July 21, 2008, the English adaptation of Baccano! was licensed by Funimation Entertainment." I also asked over at WT:MOS, and you are correct. The period does not have to be there. "choose a starting date" for what? Got it. Could you just clarify that WOWOW is a Japanese PPV station? Added as an appositive. Not sure we really need a link to orchestra. delinked. "the older conductor holds the red-headed one" the red-headed conductor or the red-headed Russo? fixed. Not sure we need to link "dredge" either. delinked. "Jacuzzi is attacked by the Russo. They are killed by Nice and her gang" who is "they" here? Fixed. "Using his right hand, Szilard "devours" him ..." now this needs explanation! Added an appositive so it now says: "Szilard "devours" him, the only way to kill an immortal,..." Changed it again. Now it says "Szilard places his right hand on Barnes' head and "devours" him, the only way to kill an immortal,..." Camorra is overlinked. Fixed. "They issue orders to find her, but something is killing the Lemure" not sure how these are interconnected. Tweaked. Now says: "They issue orders to find her, but they are unable to start searching because something is killing the Lemure." "floor to ceiling " could use hyphenation. Hypenated. "Ennis finds Dallas beating Isaac. While incapacitating him, she inadvertently rescues Isaac" "him" is unclear, you need to reiterate Dallas here. Got it. "woman in fatigues, named Rachel" is episode 9 the first time we know her name then? mhmm. Attempted to make it more obvious by making it "woman in fatigues, revealed to be named Rachel" "recognizes one of the bodies " "one of them...." got it. speakeasy is overlinked. delinked. "The two attempt to unnerve the other," either "each other" or "They attempte to unnerve one another" Went with "one another" Ref 5 claims to be the offical Baccano! website, but so does 6, and they have different URLs... Fixed. Refs need spaced en-dashes, not hyphens. Already changed. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC) Got them. ~Itzjustdrama ? C 20:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:16, 12 February 2010 [26].

---

List of Major League Baseball players with a career .400 on-base percentage

Nominator(s): Staxringold _talk^contribs 05:08, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it is up to FLC snuff, covering an interesting and classic benchmark group of great hitters. The traditional "slash stats" are a .300/.400/.500 hitter that is someone with a .300 batting average, .400 on-base percentage, and a .500 slugging percentage. I think it'll be nice to have at least the basic baseball statistics lists in better order as some of them were pretty shabby looking (this list, for example, had only one sentence of prose prior to my expansion). Also, sidenote, but I can't figure out why the equivalent batting average list is .325, despite what I've said above. This is at .400, slugging is at .500, and on-base plus slugging is at .900, but I guess for simplicity (208 players have a .300 career average) we went with a higher mark. Unrelated to this list, though. Staxringold _talk^contribs 05:08, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 Image caption: "Todd Helton is the currently active MLB leader in on-base percentage." - I think using words like "currently" is discouraged, so I would probably change to As of October 2009 or the end of the 2009 season, Todd Helton is active MLB leader in on-base percentage. MOS:SLASH discourages the use of slashes, so change to dropped or uncaught third strike. "Boston Red Sox left fielder Ted Williams" - string of three links isn't great ("When possible, avoid placing links next to each other so that they look like a single link" from WP:LINK), plus Williams doesn't still play for the Red Sox. I would suggest unlinking "Left fielder" at this point, since it's not a hugely relevant link, and rewording the sentence to Left fielder Ted Williams, who played 19 seasons for the Boston Red Sox, has the highest career on-base percentage, .4817, in MLB history. "A hitter with a .400 on-base percentage is considered to be "great" and rare," - change comma to semicolon "elected to the Hall of Fame" - might be a good place to link to List of members of the Baseball Hall of Fame You've got an extra cell at the end of Joe Kelley's row. The plate appearances column is going to have to be delimited (add commas) because there are some 5-digit numbers (see MOS:NUM#Delimiting (grouping of digits)). Check your navbox, as the link to this article is currently a redirect (probably the fault of the navbox's creator, who got rather snippy when he changed all the navboxes and got chastised). All done. Particular thanks on the Joe Kelley find, I had been wondering what was creating that little thin blank column to the right of the table. Any reason that the table is forced so narrow? It's forcing some rows to unnecessarily double up. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 23:25, 16 January 2010 (UTC) I just got worried since in another FLC a user was having issues with the images and the table. I'll make it a bit bigger. Staxringold talkcontribs 23:38, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Well done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:45, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Support from KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:24, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments - once again, I'm squeezing this tight, barely anything to moan about... "n MLB history..[2]" one too many periods. Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) You quote a lot of OBP in the lead to four decimal places while this list is titled to three. I could change the title to "with a career .4000", but if you read any report on baseball OBPs are almost universally reported to 3 digits. The fourth digit is used because the main B-Ref table extends it out to four (plus the data on the player pages) and there is no reason to throw away information (particularly when it breaks ties, as in this list). But if this was at List of Major League Baseball players with a career .4000 on-base percentage it would look very weird. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) A wee bit radical, but I'd consider putting the significance of a .400 % (as you describe it in the second para) in the opening section of the first para so us non-experts can get a grip with why this list is notable. I dunno how that would track. Current format is to have marks and records in the first para, and then historical significance in the 2nd. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Sorry to be dull (for the second of your FLCs in a row) but a non-expert needs to understand early on why .400 is relevant. I couldn't care less, nor would I know why this statistic is relevant. As soon as I got onto para 2 it became clear and very obvious that it was understood as a universally notable achievement. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC) "Players are eligible for the Baseball Hall of Fame if they..." sorry, did I miss the bit where this was relevant to .400 % OBP? Perhaps not, I need to read on. But this again seems out of order to me. Perhaps say how many are in the BHOF and then explain why some didn't make it...? I can swap the sentence order if you want, or stick some of that in a note, but the goal is just to make it clear that the number isn't just 27/61. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) I see no harm in saying x .400 OBPers are in the BHOF, y aren't because.... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Three players in this list have a % below .400. Why are they here? They aren't, they round up to .400. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Then you need a note to say why, in my opinion. Cricket stats, for instance never round up, so .399999999 would never be .400. Just a footnote, nothing fancy.... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Not sure what I would cite it to. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Yeah, I'm sure that's not as easy as it should be. We found a link for cricket from the BBC, but the problem, as I see it, is that you have a few chaps here whose stats are less than .400 with not one utterance to explain their inclusion. You see my concern? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC) I have no particular connection to Mr. Giles, Selkirk, or Appling, I'll remove em. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:22, 16 January 2010 (UTC) The career stats pages for those players do clearly show them (at 3 digits) as .400 OBP guys (example see Giles at The Baseball Cube and Selkirk at Baseball-Reference. Interestingly, Appling is shown as .399 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/applilu01.shtml). KV5 (Talk • Phils) 22:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Whaddya say, TRM, are their specific player pages (for the 2 that show .400 and not Appling's .399) enough citation to include them? Staxringold talkcontribs 22:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Well now here we're back to my query over the 4 decimal places kind-of-argument. If you use sources that say these two guys made at least .4000 then fine.... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Again, the numbers are the same, the purpose of 4 decimals is merely to be more precise. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:42, 16 January 2010 (UTC) So are your OBP stats synthesised rather than sourced? If the source says .400 but you're saying .39xx, it would imply you're doing the "math" and therefore creating original research for this list? Again, not trying to be difficult....... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:44, 16 January 2010 (UTC) They are neither. The same source (Baseball-Reference) provides both a list of career leaders which shows 4 decimals and player pages which show only 3. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 22:48, 16 January 2010 (UTC) So should <.4000 be included in this list? That's the bottom line for me. If so, we'd need an explanation as to why... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:50, 16 January 2010 (UTC) (Outdent)This goes back to the point of rounding. You wanted sourcing, this is it. When you do the precise math ([H+BB+HBP]/[AB+BB+HBP+SF]) you get the precise numbers at the main B-Ref list (.3998 for those 2) but on their player pages they are listed in only 3 digits at .400. This list uses 4 digits, as the main B-Ref list does, for precision because otherwise you'd have a plethora of ties and would be throwing away data. However, I am asking if the 2 player pages that lists these .3998 guys as .400 is sufficient to satisfy your request of citing the whole rounding thing (I guess .3995 doesn't round to .400, also, since Appling comes in at .3995 but is listed as .399 at his page). Staxringold talkcontribs 22:50, 16 January 2010 (UTC) I'm sure the math works out. All I'm saying is that one may be surprised, in a list of >=.400 candidates, we see two <.400 candidates. And no referenced note to explain why. Solve that, and we're done! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:54, 16 January 2010 (UTC) I'll do it now! Stupid Brian Giles. Staxringold talkcontribs 22:55, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Sidenote, I figured out why Appling doesn't round up on his page (and thus doesn't belong on this list) despite being listed as .3995 (which would appear to round up based on rounding rules). The reason is that's already rounded. When you run his ([H+BB+HBP]/[AB+BB+HBP+SF]) you get .399449, so he's juuuuuust below the rounding line for up to .4000. He is just about as on the fence as you can be. Staxringold talkcontribs 23:11, 16 January 2010 (UTC) "See also related lists" not sure why you need "related lists" here, it's kind of taken as read that See also relates to related articles/lists. Fixed, that's a holdover from the crappy version. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) "still active" -I've been stung on soccer FLCs by not providing evidence that a particular player is "still active". I can't see how your sources show these players are "still active". Just thought I'd pass on the pain... If they played in the last season and don't have a "Final Game" listed as the retired players do, then they are still active. This system works 99% of the time, with only very rare cases like Barry Bonds in 08 and part of 09 still considered himself a free agent but no one would sign him because of the PR nightmare that would come along (he's since made his retirement official). Staxringold talkcontribs 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC) I have no major beef with this. Just that I was asked to provide "positive" reference that "active" was "active". The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 16 January 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 21:28, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

• Very Minor Issue - I don't know if this has been brought up before, but may I ask why the space template ({{-}}) is after the table, is it really needed? Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 09:35, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Removed. Staxringold _talk^contribs 15:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - Everything looks good. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 19:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

• Provisional support – Only real issue I see is a number starting a sentence: "26 of the 42 eligible players with a career on-base percentage of .400 or higher have been elected to the Hall of Fame." Other than that, everything looks good. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:08, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

• Would you prefer "Of the 42 eligible players... 26 have been elected"? Staxringold _talk^contribs 20:12, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

• Yes. That looks good. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:22, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support, found something to link and did that, but otherwise the list is good. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 04:43, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:16, 12 February 2010 [27].

---

List of best-selling singles of the 2000s (UK)

Nominator(s): 03md 01:33, 6 January 2010 (UTC), Mephiston999

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it is ready to become featured. Any guidance on improvements to referencing etc. is appreciated. 03md 01:33, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Mephiston999

Resolved comments from Mephiston999 (talk) 02:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
*There are lots of links to redirect pages. There are lots of links to disambig pages. At the moment 7 pictures are missing alt text. I will get to those shortly, although I am not an expert in alt text. 03md 21:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Alt text has been added for all images. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:46, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support. All major issues fixed. Ready for the promotion.Mephiston999 (talk) 00:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments from The Rambling Man

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:18, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Quick comments What's the criteria for inclusion? I thought I had made that clear in the last paragraph of the lead - it is the top 100 selling singles, as announced by Radio 1. En-dashes for year ranges. I'll do that "more than 1 million " one million. Changed "Evergreen"/"Anything Is Possible" spaced or unspaced slash? You have both. Changed all instances to spaced slash. What does the * mean in 2009*? I have changed this to a note explaining the situation with Rage Against the Machine. Little less conversation - JXL was involved so surely a Dutch flag too? Added Dutch flag. As I said, quick ones... more once these are dealt with. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for all your initial comments. I have addressed them all apart from the flags at the moment. 03md 21:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Check MOSFLAG for the use of flags without country names. I can remove this column if necessary - I just used the format for the table that is present in 2009 in British music and similar articles. 03md 21:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Not saying that you need to remove it, you just need to comply with WP:MOSFLAG. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:18, 22 January 2010 (UTC) There is no way it can comply with WP:MOSFLAG so the best thing to do is just delete that column, it doesnt really add anything to the article anyways. Mephiston999 (talk) 20:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC) Removed the column. 03md 00:59, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from WFCforLife (talk) 09:48, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I can see myself potentially supporting. A few things though: The Rage Against the Machine note makes sense. The other two do not; they should either be incorporated into the lead, or removed as trivia. Given that this would leave one note, I would suggest simply having the Rage note at the bottom of the table, without a full blown "Notes" header. I only included the RATM note - the others were added by someone else without giving a source, so I have removed them. 03md 23:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Can you individually source Papa can you hear me? It's quite an extraordinary claim that a single released in 2008 and peaking at 19 can be so high in this chart. It is an extraordinary claim - and an incorrect one. The song was added in place of Chasing Cars at #49 by an anonymous user and I have removed it as vandalism. 03md 23:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Keeping refs simple is normally a good thing, but ref 13 needs more information, given how heavily reliant we are on it. How would I attempt to find it? Who published/broadcasted it? What channel? I accept that I personally may not be able to get hold of the source, and therefore accept (almost) all of the facts in good faith. But without enough info to attempt to find it, I consider the list unverified. I had trouble filling in the details using the Cite episode template - do you know how this particular template works? I wanted to source the list to the three seperate Radio 1 episodes. 03md 23:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Templates can be problematic for that sort of thing. My suggestion is to get rid of the template and simply write out the details for that ref. Once the details are there I'd be happy to attempt to format it, and if I get it wrong I'm confident someone else would correct me. WFCforLife (talk) 00:11, 1 February 2010 (UTC) I have managed to find published sources on the Radio 1 website which count down the chart, so I am using these instead. 03md 01:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Hope those help, WFCforLife (talk) 02:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Cheers for your comments. I have responded above. 03md 23:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Disclosure: We're both in the wikicup. WFCforLife (talk) 02:21, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support, referencing is much more helpful now. I know we can't indefinitely semi protect, but this one will be more prone to vandalism than most. It'll be worth keeping on a few watchlists. WFCforLife (talk) 02:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General The external link in ref #7 is dead. Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 01:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC) User:Mephiston999 had about half your edits to the article, unless his changes were minor, you should have contacted him about this nom. Dab links check out fine. Some of the images need alt text. In addition, in stead of using 'lady' for one of the images I saw, use 'woman.' (its more formal) Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 01:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Lead Since 2005 the chart has been based on the sales of both physical and digital singles, as long as the single was available in both formats. -- A)Comma after 2005 B)instead of 'as long' use 'as well', makes a tad bit more sense. Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 02:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC) At the end of the decade a retrospective chart was compiled by the Official Charts Company to determine the best-selling single across the ten-year period. -- Comma after decade Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 02:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The single sold 1.795 million copies and saw Young finish ahead of his fellow Pop Idol finalist Gareth Gates, whose debut single "Unchained Melody" sold 1.4 million copies and took second place. -- Doesn't 'took second place' sound a bit repetitive since it is stated that Young's single placed ahead of it? Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 02:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The X Factor winners Alexandra Burke (5th) and Shayne Ward (8th) and the band formed on Popstars in 2001, Hear'Say (9th), also made it into the top ten. --> The X Factor winners Alexandra Burke (5th), Shayne Ward (8th) and the band formed on Popstars in 2001, Hear'Say (9th), also made it into the top ten. Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 02:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Only 5 songs released in 2003 and 2 released in 2004 (including Band Aid 20's million seller "Do They Know It's Christmas?" made the top 100 best-selling singles, in comparison to 11 in 2000 and 13 in 2009. -- the parenthesis needs to be closed. Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 02:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The song eventually reached number 36 in the best-sellers list. -- this is sourced in the table right? yes, you can find it in the table, which has 3 references (see general references) Mephiston999 (talk) 02:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Table Since there are three refs for the positions, which cause that column to stretch, you should make them general references. See this example. Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 01:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC) External links Remove this header because there are no 'links.' The template goes under the references in this case.--Truco 503 23:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC) Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 01:34, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- Comments resolved; meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 23:45, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Support Just one thing, you shouldn't put use images (such as the check marks) on FLC pages because they slow down page-loading. Mm40 (talk) 13:41, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

Comments from Mm40 (talk) This is purely a personal stylistic request (so you can ignore it), but did you consider changing "text-align:left" to "text-align:center" at the table's start to center it? Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 16:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) All but one image needs alt text I added alt text to the rest of the images. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:46, 10 February 2010 (UTC) The last reference needs an access date, and their is an author. Fixed Mephiston999 (talk) 16:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Reference 12 (Pocket-lint) has an author you should add. More importantly, though, what makes it reliable? Fixed author issue Mephiston999 (talk) 16:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC) What about reliability? Mm40 (talk) 02:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC) Deleted, there is another reference for it anyways.Mephiston999 (talk) 04:30, 11 February 2010 (UTC) More to come. Mm40 (talk) 13:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC) Official Charts Company shouldn't be linked in the second paragraph "talent competition Pop Idol in 2001" can you make it clearer that he won in 2001, not that the songs were released '01? it may be worthwhile to put the songs' release year after they're first mentioned. "ahead of his fellow Pop Idol finalist" "including Band Aid 20's million seller" hyphenate "million seller" Missing quotation mark in the Black Eyed Peas caption In the table entry for "Hero" (#19), "X Factor" should be "The X Factor" Rock DJ should link to Rock DJ (song) (also fix in the caption of Williams' picture) In the table and Lewis' caption, you might link "Run" to the specific section, Run (Snow Patrol song)#Leona Lewis version In the RATM note, why not link List of Christmas number one singles (UK) again? This list is very good, and I'll support once my above issues are resolved (including Pocket-lint's reliability). One comment, though: You Brits have bad taste in music; Bob the Builder at #10! How?!

• No major problems with the images. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 20:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support as long as you fix the typo in the title of ref 4 and remove that random > from near the end of the lead.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
  • Fixed both issues.Mephiston999 (talk) 11:36, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 00:21, 7 February 2010 [28].

---

List of Boston Red Sox first-round draft picks

Nominator(s): Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:22, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Built in the style of List of Philadelphia Phillies first-round draft picks (a FL) and List of New York Mets first-round draft picks (a soon-to-be FL), I think this big sucker is ready (that was a LOT of compensation/supplementary pick notes). Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:22, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support. Good enough to break my boycott of this process. Durova³⁹¹ 02:00, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:15, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Fuentes is unlinked in the lead but red-linked in the table. Any reason why? Nope, linked. Outfielder is overlinked in the lead. Fixed. "Red Sox" is repeated quite a few times - nine times in eleven sentences - makes the prose a little samey... Removed some. Shouldn't second fastest be hyphenated? Done. Staxringold talkcontribs 17:43, 7 January 2010 (UTC) "a particularly valuable " how is this assessed? That really belongs at the general draft article, where it is dealt with. But the long and the short of it is players are evaluated by the Elias Sports Bureau and, based on past performance, can be rated as either a "Type A" or "Type B" free agent (or not rated at all). If you lose a Type B free agent you get a supplementary pick, if you lose a Type A free agent you get a supplementary pick and a compensatory pick from the team that signs them. Okay. My real concern is that "particularly valuable" can be construed as POV. Could you add a note to that phrase which is pretty much what you said above? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Will do. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Nice, just a last moment, could you replace "old team" with "previous team"? The Rambling Man (talk) 00:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC) All done! Staxringold talkcontribs 01:27, 9 January 2010 (UTC) "first round picks " vs " first-round pick " be consistent with the hyphenation here. Fixed in a couple places, but shouldn't it be "first round" when describing the round itself but "first-round" when it's referring to the picks (like a "first-round pick" versus "Of the 60 players taken in the first round"?). Yes, I didn't want you to change that... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Are you sure all the unlinked players fail to meet WP:ATHLETE? I only ask as a similar discussion is being held at this current FLC. I guess you're using baseball-reference.com to make that decision for you? If the player has never appeared in the Majors and is far enough gone that they won't, I've left them blacklinked. I suppose I could redlink a few more recent years (like 1999's Brad Baker, he's still in his 20s). Basically I've just left the very recent picks redlinked because there's still a big shot at them making the Majors and thus an article. Okay. That's not how we do it at WP:FOOTBALL (but that doesn't make it wrong)... We just blacklink people who currently fail WP:ATHLETE, and link all the others. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:00, 7 January 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 10:35, 7 January 2010 (UTC) My purpose in doing this is just to keep the least quickly up-to-date if those guys become notable. Staxringold talkcontribs 21:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

• Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:23, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

• Done! Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments –

• "They have also drafted two players from outside the United States". Nothing is wrong if you only look at this sentence, but the last mention of the team name is singular ("The team"), so the tenses are off. Perhaps starting it with "The Red Sox" would be preferable?

• Fixed. Staxringold _talk^contribs 00:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comma after "in his second major league start". By the way, was Buchholz on the postseason roster in 2007? If so, that's three draft picks who won the World Series with the Sox.

• I checked and checked. He definitely didn't appear (as shown in the B-Ref page) and I've found nothing saying he was on the roster. Staxringold _talk^contribs 00:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

• Remove comma after Jimmy Hack (1970). Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 00:25, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support – Can't believe it, but it finally happened: I'm supporting a Red Sox-related article. (Insert confused face here :-) Meets all the standards. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:34, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments from KV5

• What's JC? I know; will others?

And that's really it. Great job! KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:47, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed, thanks! Staxringold _talk^contribs 01:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Heartily support this list for promotion. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 01:25, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Two things I saw: I've added accents for one player, and, as asked in the edit summary, please check for this throughout (I did it in the LAD list). Also, states are linked at random points in the table: I saw 1969, 1977, and 2007. Mm40 (talk) 14:40, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Delinked states (whoever fixed the city-state templates that didn't work linked the states) but I left Alberta and Puerto Rico linked. No more accents I see. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:09, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Dab links, external links, contributors, and alt text all check out fine. Lead There is an inconsistency with the spelling of Major League Baseball and the acronym MLB, per WP:ACRONYM, there needs to be consistency (use MLB or spell it out throughout the lead). How does this usage pattern violate this? Trying to make it flow nicely, though I'll replace and uniformly use MLB. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC) WP ACRONYM: If used, acronyms should be used consistently throughout the article. (It probably would have been easier for you to just spell out the one use of MLB you had).--Truco 503 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Meh, it's consistent now. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Nine of the players came from high schools or universities in the state of California, while Texas and South Carolina follow, with six and five players, respectively. -- remove the comma after follow, makes the sentence flow better Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Per WP:OVERLINK, no need to link common geographic locations : The Red Sox have also drafted two players from outside the United States: Chris Reitsma (1996) from Canada and Reymond Fuentes (2009) from Puerto Rico Fixed. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC) You can combine these two sentences: Two of their first-round picks have won championships with the franchise. Outfielder Trot Nixon (1993) was on the 2004 championship team[4] and outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury (2005) played with the 2007 championship team. into Two of their first-round picks have won championships with the franchise: outfielder Trot Nixon (1993) was on the 2004 championship team[4] and outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury (2005) played with the 2007 championship team. (if you prefer) I'm a fan of the current style as it keeps it constant for teams with more championships or players to detail. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Clay Buchholz (2005) threw a no-hitter, the seventeenth in Red Sox franchise history, in his second major league start, tying him with Wilson Alvarez for the second-fastest no-hitter by a MLB pitcher. -- this is a issue throughout the lead, the positions of each person should be spelled out when referring to them in situations, like this should say Pitcher Clay Bucholz threw a no-hitter. Why? And do I really need to note that it was a pitcher throwing a no-hitter and not say... A third baseman (who definitionally cannot throw one)? Staxringold talkcontribs 00:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC) I guess I was reading into it too much. Sorry.--Truco 503 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) These additional picks are provided when a team loses a particularly valuable free agent in the prior off-season, -- this sounds repetitive since you noted this in the last sentence of the first paragraph What about this?--Truco 503 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) I don't think it's repetitive. The simple version was needed in the first paragraph (though I guess this mention could be removed) to fully explain the basics of the draft, then in the last paragraph to lead into all the compensatory/supplementary picks. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC) List Why are some red links and others aren't linked at all? Recently drafted players who are currently minor leaguers but could make the majors (and thus be notable and get articles) are redlinked. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Oh okay, a note would probably help that out but we'll see what other reviewers say.--Truco 503 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC) That means leaving this sucker open for even longer, and that's just depressing. I can delink if you want, but it doesn't disrupt the article (and makes things far easier for when those articles get made). Staxringold talkcontribs 00:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC) There was no possibility of making any rows sortable?--Truco 503 00:12, 6 February 2010 (UTC) All the no-pick years would make it very, very confusing. Plus the school sorting would be very tough. By city? By state? By name? Which part of the name? Etc, etc. Staxringold talkcontribs 00:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Oh okay.--Truco 503 00:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- Previous issues resolved; meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 23:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Support Comments Mm40 (talk) 19:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• I count seven players from Texas and five from SC

• Right you are on the Texas count, corrected. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Upon the first year in parenthesis, you may want to put "drafted in" before the year, to clear up any confusion. At least when listing awards won, it may give the impression that, for instance, Rice won the MVP in 1971.

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Catchers definitely doesn't go where we want it to.

• Heh, fixed. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• I count 15 supplemental picks

• 16, actually, but the lead was still wrong. Fixed.

• John Glenn High School (Norwalk), T. L. Hanna High School, Bakersfield College

• Added. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Bryan Price isn't the right Bryan Price (2008)

• Don't know what to do here, since even Bryan Pryce (baseball) goes there. I'll delink it for now. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Accent for Manati (2009 pick location)

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Link "Rookie of the Year Award" in Garciaparra's caption (CY Young is linked in Clemens')

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• I guess Fossum and Murphy are really boring, huh (captions)?

• Yeah. I tried to liven up captions where possible, but sometimes there's not much to say. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• The titles of Refs 3 and 12 don't match the title of the link

• Fixed, dunno what happened there. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• You can differentiate the titles of references 15 and 16 by adding ":Draft Report: 1970s" and ":Draft Report: 1980s" after the current titles. Mm40 (talk) 16:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• You can put references 3 and 12 directly after the sentence they reference.

• They already do. They cite the general statement, and then V goes into detail about what "particularly valuable" means. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Sorry, I was talking about the first two sentences of the last paragraph. Mm40 (talk) 17:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Those also cite that sentence though, showing they never made the first overall pick (listing both the Red Sox picks and first overall picks). Staxringold _talk^contribs 18:02, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Refs 4 and 5 should have ndashes

• Did you do this? Mm40 (talk) 17:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Whoops, done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 18:02, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 22:44, 6 February 2010 [29].

---

List of National League pennant winners

Nominator(s): KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because it was requested as an addition to the MLB awards featured topic. That topic nomination is on hold, but quick reviews on this would be greatly appreciated, and I will address all comments as expediently as possible. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:40, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support I see no problems. Nice job! Reywas92^Talk 01:21, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments by NuclearWarfare

• Overall, this article is quite good, Just a few comments, and then I'll be happy to support.
  • The article starts off rather oddly, I thought. Maybe it would be better if it went something like "The National League pennant is won annually by a team in the National League, which makes up Major League Baseball along with the American League. The National League pennant denotes the champion of this year's league and gives the team the right to play in the World Series against the winner of the American League pennant." Or something like that; what I wrote was probably atrocious. I don't know why, but I didn't really like the intro paragraph as it currently stands.
  • "The current National League pennant-holders are the Philadelphia Phillies, who won the league in back-to-back seasons (2008–2009) for the first time since the 1995–96 Braves." I'm not sure if that means that was the first time in 12 years that anyone went back to back, or the first time in 12 years that the Phillies went back to back. Do you think you could clarify please? Thanks.
• That really seems to be it. If you could respond to those two points, I'd be happy to support. Oh, and images are good. NW (Talk) 02:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• See if the changes I made work for you. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 02:14, 26 January 2010 (UTC)`

• Excellent. Happy to offer you my support. NW (Talk) 02:42, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comments from rst20xx (talk):
  • Would it be worth noting in the tables which divisions each of the teams came from?
  • Would it be worth mentioning the unique format of the 1981 playoffs?
  • For 1981 and 1995 onwards, would it be worth linking to the article on the NL Division Series? It would be more informative to name the other two teams involved as well, though that might be a bit too unwieldy.
  • Should the C and T in the Key should be superscripted, as they are when used?
• Impressively quick work! - rst20xx (talk) 16:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

To quickly address these: I also considered linking to the NLDS, but the table did become huge and bulky-looking, so I took it out, and it's why I included the link to the NLDS in the "See also" section. The "C" and "T" are merely superscripted in the tables because they are indicators; I left them full-size in the key so as to be easier to read. I could probably construct a notation to show the divisions, but I definitely don't want to make the table wider by adding more columns. I'm indifferent on the 1981 playoffs, but a footnote is easily added if you'd like to see it. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:36, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Divisions now indicated by superscripted "E", "C", and "W" in the second table; Chronicle-Telegraph Cup was changed to "C-T" to compensate. Footnotes now exist for 1981 and for the realignment in 1995. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:55, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Support - OK, I still think it's worth adding an extra column to link to the NLDS details, it wouldn't be a very wide column and would make these articles much more accessible to the reader. But thanks anyway - rst20xx (talk) 23:22, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comments To begin with you've got some mis-marked Temple Cup winners. According to Temple Cup Baltimore won in 94, 95, and 96 and Boston in 97, but this list only matches that in 1896 (has the runner up marked in 94, 95, and 97). Staxringold _talk^contribs 19:56, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Think you misread that. The results that you wrote above are the final league standings (e.g. "Baltimore 1st, New York 2nd" from the Temple Cup). After that, it shows the result ("New York won Series, 4 games to 0") of the actual Temple Cup series. The pennant-winner only actually won the Temple Cup once; the other three years, the pennant runner-up won the series. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:59, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• Haha, yeah, you just beat me (got an edit conflict) was gonna strikeout that, I'm dumb. My bad. I'll give a fuller review once I get through the AL. Staxringold _talk^contribs 20:00, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• K, if you need a hand, let me know. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 20:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support Nothing to change here. Staxringold _talk^contribs 07:20, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - "Also known as Philadelphia Quakers and Philadelphia Blue Jays (unofficially)" - does this mean they were unofficially known by both names, or only the second? If the latter, I suggest a change to "Also known as Philadelphia Quakers and unofficially as Philadelphia Blue Jays"..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:59, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:46, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment Check the toolbox; there is a dead link (one of the baseball-reference.com links comes up as a 403 forbidden). Dabomb87 (talk) 04:18, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Fixing now. Staxringold _talk^contribs 05:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support – Found no issues when I looked at the list. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments What's NLCS? You use the abbreviation before saying what it means... Not so far as I see. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) I'm guessing I was looking at an old version of the page, my apologies. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC) "by that margin on" - "by the same margin"? It's only happened once; that wording would lead me to believe it happened more than one time. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Tsk, my mistake. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC) What's pre-CS? Is that pre-NLCS? Yes, sorry. Fixed. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) " after their owner refused to take part in the 1904 World Series." is this referenced somewhere? Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:38, 6 February 2010 (UTC) GA col doesn't sort for me. I knew there was a problem with the {{sortfrac}} template. It has never worked right past the first two sortings, but the developer never tested that far. I'll do it manually. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The "NCLS details" link in every line looks odd to me. In other similar lists where there are two relevant year articles, the year is repeated under a different heading. I personally think that the duplicated year links look ugly and repetitive. If you really feel it should be that way, I'll change it, but that's just my opinion. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Well I think the repetition of NCLS details on every line but linking to a different article is poor too... The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC) I thought it was clearer, since the year is explicitly defined by the left column and the piped link tells you what you're going to, rather than having it in a key. Either way... KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Moved to {{nlcsy}} templates and moved column. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Sorting by LW, not sure why the colspan note sorts between the 0's and the 1's... No idea... this has worked before. Why do these things work for others and not for me when I steal their code...? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) OK, I implemented a workaround for this; it's inelegant but it works for now. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC) What's the relevance of (NL) next to the Orioles? There's a current team also named the Baltimore Orioles. The teams are unrelated and played in two different leagues. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Could you add a note to that effect please. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Done. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 16:59, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support good work, particularly on the areas I noted. Well done. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Cheers! KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:00, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 23:50, 5 February 2010 [30].

---

Providence Grays all-time roster

Nominator(s): Neonblak ^talk - 10:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets the standards for a FL. The lead seems to be a bit long; one suggestion during the peer review process indicated a "history" section be implemented. How to go about this, and not interrupt the flow, might be better answered here.Neonblak ^talk - 10:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 I don't think the lead is too long; I know that the MOS recommends no more than four paragraphs, but this is basically a very concise history of the team that covers most of the major elements in the list. That said, I have a couple of comments: Lead "officially became approved" - were officially approved would be better wording "raising the NL team memberships to seven, although only six teams were members by the start of the 1879 season" - eh? If it's seven, but it's six...? I'm confused. "start of the 1879 season.." - double period "and then hired Tom York" "Providence was successful in signing several star players for their inaugural season;" - I thought there was semicolon fever happening for a minute, but then I realized that this semicolon just needed to be an actual colon. "six teams in the NL for the 1878 season" "among the, now, eight teams" - I think among the league's eight teams would be more grammatically correct "new additions, Jim O'Rourke and Joe Start," - first comma is superfluous and can be removed "If this claim is true, then White will have pre-dated both Moses Fleetwood Walker and his brother Welday Walker, whom both played for the 1884 Toledo Blue Stockings of the American Association (AA)." - just the two highlighted changes "who brought back his brother George Wright" - since you've already mentioned George before, and since his brother's name immediately precedes this statement, you don't need to say his last name here "Their fortunes did not change, however, they again placed second in the NL standings, behind the White Stockings, for the third straight season." - there's a run-on here. I don't think the fortunes not changing statement is really needed; you could probably get by with just They placed second in the NL standings, behind the White Stockings, for the third straight season. "April 29, 1986.[25][25][26]" - doubled ref "for the remainer of the season" - remainder Table Copyedit your captions: no full-stops/periods if they are not complete sentences, and make sure you don't have any splices (I think I spotted at least two). In the table, there are a lot of "played 1 game", "played 5 games", "played 8 games", etc. MOS:NUM says these should be "one", "five", etc. Red! Bright! Ow!... could be less glaring. That should do it. Nice work. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Thank you for the quick review, I have made most the of the changes you requested. However, under MOS:NUM, it states that generally preferred that numbers be depicted as a figure when used in tables, and that comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all figures. I beleive I am following the intent and spirit of the MOS on this one. Other things, I changed the color, hopefully this is not as "loud" as the last one, and as far as the "splices" you are referring too, could you please clarify? Thanks again for the review, I has definately made the article better.Neonblak talk - 00:06, 5 January 2010 (UTC) I didn't see those numbers as being "comparable" to any specific other figures that are numeric, and what MOSNUM is referring to there is things like statistical tables, not this format. MOSNUM also says that "Numbers within a table's explanatory text and comments should be consistent with the general rule", which is where these numbers are located. Color: less bright; still glaring. Perhaps a pastel green like #bbffbb or a pastel red like #ffbbbb? The splices I referred to were "First baseman Tim Murnane, later became an award-winning baseball writer for The Boston Globe" (remove the comma, and also needs a period at the end since it's a sentence); if you weren't intending this to be a complete sentence, then replace the comma with a semicolon instead and leave off that period I suggested. The other one appears to have been corrected. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:21, 5 January 2010 (UTC) I went ahead with the changes you suggested, and I think the pastel green looks quite nice !Neonblak talk - 10:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Support from KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:56, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 10:01, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Lead, at five paras, is a little too long. "were a Major League Baseball franchise" was? "which then had eight teams" instead of "had" but "comprised" or "consisted of"? Did I miss the link to the Providence Grays article in the lead? Expand RBI before you abbreviate it for the non-experts amongst us. Why not link "home run"? "though Radbourn won 48 games " surely he couldn't have done this on his own? The 1885 article says the Grays finished fourth, but your lead says "consistently finished third place or higher in the final standings". The Rambling Man (talk) 18:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC) I am not sure what to do with the lead, what to cut out, or if should be sectionalized. My opinion is with KV5 above, in that it may be a bit long, but it accomplishes a great deal in efficiently and effectively explaining the subject manner. "were" vs. "was" seems to get varying opinions when following a team name like this, I think it is grammatically correct to use "was" being that the Providence Grays was a single entity, it just sounds better to use "were". "consistently finished in third place or higher" is correct in my opinion. Consistently doesn't mean "always", and in this franchise's history, finishing lower than 3rd place just once in eight seasons meets what was written. I made the other corrections as per your suggestions.Neonblak talk - 05:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC) I still believe that saying "consistently" finishing third or higher is misleading. It may be grammatically correct to say consistent does not equal always, but the phrase misled me and will no doubt mislead others. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC) I worded the sentence a bit. Also, re-structured the lead into three paragraphs, and in my opinion, they do not look as large as I would have thought. I think I was able to find the natural breaks in the narative so the flow isn't hurt.Neonblak talk - 09:47, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments – Still have some notes to read, but this will do for now: The lead is long already, but there are a couple gaps that could stand to be filled in. First, how about a mention of the 1884 World Series, which the Grays won? Second, is there any information known on why the Grays were disbanded, or otherwise left the majors? Lew Brown note: Our article on the Cubs refers to the team's nickname then as the White Stockings. It might be nice to change it just to avoid inevitable confusion regarding the White Sox–Cubs thing. Ed Conley note: Spell out W–L record and ERA. Con Daily note: "was the back-up catcher to Barney Gilligan, his last season for the Grays." Missing "in" after the comma. Dick Higham note: Is "bannished" a typo? Not 100% whether it is or not. (Incidentally, how was he cheating? This doesn't have to be added to the page, but I'm curious about that.) Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC) I made the changes you suggested. As for the departure of the team, I can only use logic, Arthur Soden, owner of the Boston Beaneaters, bought the team and its players after the 1885 season. Since many of the players played in Boston in 1886, I can only assume that he folded the team after buying them, keeping the players; I can find no reference spelling that out though. As for Higham, I could probably take it out since his banishment was after his time with the Grays. I wrote the Higham article, and how he was able to throw games as an umpire is detailed there.Neonblak talk - 03:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Oppose – Sorry, but my promised return to check the remaining notes revealed serious prose problems throughout. They need a good cleaning before any promotion for this list. Details of everything I managed to find in them are below, though I don't guarantee that I found everything. Paul Hines note: "known later as baseball's triple cown." Look at the last word again. Arthur Irwin note: Change comma to semi-colom before "both were his career highs." Rudy Kemmler note: "Kemmler played in two games with 1879 Grays". Add "the" in the middle. A similar change is needed in the Sam Kimber note. Bobby Mathews: De-capitalize Wins. Mike McGeary: "the Cleveland Blues hired him for both player and manager." "for" → "as" Cyclone Miller: Win improperly capitalized again. Tim Murname: "Murname was their starting first baseman during his only season with the Grays." To improve grammar, move the mention of the team name to where "their" is, and make the second mention of the team more generic. "and was enshrined by the Baseball Hall of Fame Honor Rolls of Baseball in 1946." Unclear as it stands now; it reads like he was inducted by the Honor Rolls, when in reality he was inducted by the Hall into the Rolls. Sandy Nava: "He played three seasons for Providence as their backup catcher." For tense purposes, "their" should be "its", or the team name should be made "the Grays". Charles Radbourne: Remove comma after "during which". Paul Radford: "He was the Grays' starting right fielder for the Grays during his two-season stint with the Grays." Glaring redundancy regarding the team name, twice over. John Montgomery Ward: "The first five seasons of Ward's Hall of Fame career was spent with the Grays." "was" → "were". Also change the semi-colon to a regular comma. Johnny Ward: "He pitched in one game for the Grays, and complete game loss on September 19 to the St. Louis Browns." Should "and" have the last two letters? George Wright: "when he was the team's player-manager for their first NL championship season." Again, a conflict between singular "team" and plural "their", meaning one should be changed. Also remove comma after June. Serious overlinking is present throughout the notes. For example, I counted 30 links to games played or pitched. Don't you think this is overdoing it a little? I also think a few bits of baseball terminology are overlinked, such as at bats and win–loss record. The entire column needs attention in this regard. Reference 6 needs a publisher (Retrosheet). This is secondary to the prose issues, but worth fixing in the process. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC) Thank you for thorough review, I made all the suggested prose and spelling corrections. As for the linking, it was suggested to me during a previous FLC, when a table that is sortable like this, if I am going to link a word, i.e. "hits", that the word needs to be either linked in each instance, or not at all. If it appears to be distracting to have the links, I could unlink the the ones used in the lead. I am open to suggestion on this.Neonblak talk - 11:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Support – Nice work responding to all of the prose issues; the list looks much better for it. Still not crazy about the linking, but I won't withhold support over it, since it does seem to be accepted here. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support A little more info on the team's end would be great, but I just dug through my Bill James Historical Abstract and found nothing. Staxringold _talk^contribs 17:51, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
• Comments - just a few points:
  • "Providence .... were officially approved on February 6" and "Providence was successful in signing several star players for their inaugural season" - I get very confused by singular/plural usage in US English for sports teams, but it certainly seems like you're using both here to refer to the same thing
  • "White pre-dated both Moses Fleetwood Walker and his brother Welday Walker, whom both played for 1884 Toledo Blue Stockings " - "whom" is not correct here, and shouldn't there be a "the" before 1884?
  • "a season in which they finished at their lowest position in the standings in their history, as well as their worst winning percentage" - I think there should be another word in here, maybe "gained" or "secured", before "their worst winning percentage"
• Think that's it........ -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:35, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Fixed all three items. Let me know if you see anything else.Neonblak ^talk - 13:14, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support - all seems OK now those have been addressed (and I removed on duplicated word) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:59, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment What makes http://www.19cbaseball.com/game-2.html#references a reliable source? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:32, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In re-reading the content culled from the source, it appears that I using it to reference the 20-game win streak, but it looks like the writer was talking about Radbourn personally having a 20-game win streak instead. So I cross referenced with the teams game log, and it looks like it was only 18. So instead of playing with fire (OR), I just eliminated the information and the reference. So, to answer your question, the reference that I used, was not reliable after all.Neonblak ^talk - 23:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 22:24, 3 February 2010 [31].

---

Bodley's Librarian

Nominator(s): Bencherlite^Talk 17:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Another Oxford-related list to keep TRM happy. You may have seen in the news last year that Cambridge University are thinking of selling off the "naming rights" to its library to raise money. Once again, Oxford is 400 years ahead of Cambridge, naming the main university library after the man who refounded it in 1602. Here's a list of the 23 men and 1 woman who have run the library since then. One of these days, I'll write an FLC where I don't have to write lots of mini-bios first... Bencherlite^Talk 17:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Light blue comments Library is mentioned six times in the first two sentences. A little repetitious. Like my comments. Redundant repetition ruthlessly reduced. And yes, I do like your comments. Oh, I see... Bodley offered, but did he actually do it? Yes, corrected for complete crystal-clear comprehensibility. "some one " I take it that the spacing is deliberate here, part of the direct quotation. Yes That quote's a bit odd, plenty of ye Olde English, it may be useful to provide a "translation", especially for terms such as "benefice of Cure"... I have "corrected" the spelling to modern usage (I'm sure that there's a WP guideline that lets me do that, but I can't immediately find it) and added "(i.e. not a parish priest)" at the end. And that sentence has nearly 70 words... Split into two. Is Lockey's "unfitness" cited somewhere (it's the odd one out in the lead) duplicate citation added for completeness Please be aware of an opposition to tables with a mixture of left- and centrally-aligned columns. The discussion is ongoing at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Oklahoma Sooners in the NBA and WNBA Drafts/archive1. Personally I have no problem whatsoever with it, but you should be forewarned! Thanks for the tip. Hyde was a Sub-Librarian. Can this be mentioned in the lead, the position itself I mean. Not sure, I'll have a think. "...weathers"[10]" we're missing a full stop somewhere here. Added. Is there an appropriate link for Licensing Act? Ooh, nice one. Licensing of the Press Act 1662 Do you think you should be consistent when referring to other librarians in the list by using their full name rather than a mixture of full names and just surnames? I hope that it's now consistent in full names on first mention, surnames on subsequent mention. "obtained."[11]" vs "Oxford".[15]" note different full stop placement... Now consistent, I hope. Anything on what Nicholson did in his 30-year tenure other than just the stuff he did before it? Somehow missed the fact that Nicholson had an entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Rewritten his article, and expanded his note here. Spare full stop in spec ref 1. Drat these cite templates that throw in extra full-stops! The Rambling Man (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for your comments, will address them ASAP. Addressed most, I hope. BencherliteTalk 14:09, 7 January 2010 (UTC) 20:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:03, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Good stuff; couldn't find much to quibble about. "Bodley's offer in 1598 to restore the library was accepted by the university" Any particular reason the passive voice is used? The second column, "Dates", seems a bit broad to me. Any chance that we could use a more specific noun, such as "Term" or "Tenure"? "Thomas was previously Librarian of Cornell University (1996–2007), and has also worked at Harvard " "also" seems redundant. "centrally-funded libraries" Per WP:HYPHEN, no hyphen after ly- adverbs. Not directly related to the list, but in {{Bodley's Librarians}}, I think "Other pages" could be more accurately expressed as "Related pages". Just my opinion, though. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:15, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Reworded "Tenure" used, although it sounds rather "American" – I'll see if I can think of a synonym I prefer "also" removed hyphen removed Reworded the template. Thanks for your commments. BencherliteTalk 02:51, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support One small thing, might it be worth mentioning that Thomas is the first foreign librarian again in her notes section? I realize it's in the lead, but that's a rather big first for a 400 year old institution. Also, it would be nice (if the info is out there) to know something about the selection process, even if only for the modern librarians. Staxringold _talk^contribs 07:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Note added re Thomas. Haven't found anything about the appointment process, old or new, but will keep looking. Many thanks for looking at this one. Bencherlite^Talk 07:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Have added material from an interview with Thomas in 2007 where she mentions being approached to apply, and her feelings about taking up the job. Bencherlite^Talk 14:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Mm40 (talk) 22:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

*Comment hopefully full review forthcoming, but two quibbles. First, could some more images be added? Maybe one of the current librarian (Thomas) in the lead and one or two of particularly notable or long-serving librarians next to the table? Preferably, they're a bit more recent; it seems sort of unbalanced for there to be images of the first four only. Also (very pedantic), the alt texts seem very choppy. I think there may be a few too many commas. Or maybe not. Not sure. Mm40 (talk) 01:25, 28 January 2010 (UTC) I've had a look for more images, but no joy. I can't justify fair-use images in this list. On Flickr, there's one dreadful photo of the current librarian (eyes closed) and nothing else, either under a CC licence or copyright. Google Images gives nothing that I can reuse. The ODNB biographies for some of the more recent (dead) librarians have photographs but they're still in copyright. Others have no images at all. The ones that have images that weren't in copyright are the ones that I copied and uploaded to Commons, so I don't know what else to do. I'll have a look at the alt text, and see if I can make it less choppy. <aside>keeps to himself personal views on merits of recent alt text obsession at FA/FL for articles and lists that few read and even fewer need alt text for...</aside> BencherliteTalk 13:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC) More comments from Mm40 (talk) I guess there was no official librarian (or no records) before the decline? Although they wouldn't need to be listed here (they weren't heads of the Bodleian Library), some mention might be nice. No names that I've seen. You might clarify that both the library and the position is named after Sir Thomas Bodley. Reworded. Do you think non-breaking spaces would be useful in Bandinel's James's, and Lockey's "college" column? It looks odd having "F)" by itself on a line. nbsps added to all "(A, F)" usages "university library at Oxford since about" Although "at Oxford" may be redundant, it may flow better with it, so I'll leave it up to you on whether or not to remove the words. I think I'll keep it in. What does the "removal" of books mean? Nitpick, but aren't books supposed to be removed from libraries then given back? Would "theft" be better? Am I giving too many suggestions in question form? Will check this – update: books were removed in a religious purge in 1550, so I've reworded this and added better source citations for the passage. In the first reference, please link to the correct chapter to make verification easier. I do give a link to the Bodleian Library chapter, please recheck. You may have missed the fact that I give links to the chapter and to the whole book, using the appropriate parameters of {{cite book}}. The sentence beginning "The first Librarian, Thomas James, was selected" seems a bit choppy. Split as two sentences "let him get married" -> "let him marry", sounds more formal Done "and to become Rector of St Aldate's Church, Oxford" Also, are there links for "Rector" and "St Aldate's Church, Oxford"? "to" cut; rector linked; no link for the church. Was Lockey generally regarded as unfit? Looking at Lockey's row, it seems one scholar thought this. Reworded to mention Wood in the lead as well. Somewhat major problem: can ODNB links be made to link to the subject's page, as currently, the links lead to the website's main page. No, unless you have UK library access or an academic subscription, when the links do work. {{ODNBsub}} added to the first mention of the ODNB. There's some inconsistent linking in the specific references. Why is the ODNB and the Oxford University Press linked in reference 17? Vaisey is linked at all mentions while Madan isn't. Either link at first mention or all the time. Ref 17 fixed, oversight. Vaisey and Madan delinked January is abbreviated in ref 25. Fixed Were all the ODNB entries written in 2004? Seems a bit odd... On a related note, ref 16 doesn't have a date. Yes, that's when the ODNB was written to supercede the old DNB. Date added for ref 16. I'll do a review of the table tomorrow (?). Mm40 (talk) 21:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks, BencherliteTalk 22:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC) Updated the one remaining issue about removal of books. BencherliteTalk 14:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC) One more thing about the lead: could you note those with the shortest and longest terms, for easy access? Added "the agreement in 1610" sounds like the agreement was already discussed. Reworded "he followed the library rules" also, do we know what rule prevented him from giving Charles the book? In any event, interesting fact "the" removed, added "that prohibited books being borrowed" "he resigned on becoming" -> "he resigned upon becoming" Done Hyde's second sentence repeats "also" twice; please "denude" the repetition somehow one "also" stripped away "from about the age of 24 until" done You can cut out "that had been" in "the library catalogue that had been begun by Bowles" done Link "Principal of Jesus College" to List of Principals and Fellows of Jesus College, Oxford? What an excellent FL, I wonder who did most of the work on it...? Nice idea "Ill-health eventually" shouldn't be hyphenated Well spotted "used in the evenings by students and academics" Done What does "the first purpose-built underground book store" mean? Reworded to "Under Nicholson, the Bodleian's first purpose-built underground book store was constructed; at the time, it was the largest in the world", with an open reference to confirm "his decision to appoint a woman" -> "his appointment of a woman" done Why would Madan have needed to communicate with Nicholson? I'm assuming this written-communication-only thing happened during Nicholson's term Well, they were working in the same library, so hardly surprising that they would need to communicate. Added "when Nicholson was the librarian" to clarify Is there any link for "Reader in Bibliography"? Linked reader, but the position itself doesn't have an article What does "the position of Marshal Foch professor" mean? It's the name of the chair (e.g. link to the current prof; redlinked Marshal Foch Professor of French Literature in the hope that I'll get round to it at some point... After these issues are fixed, I'll gladly support. Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 13:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC) Thanks for your nitpicking. If you're in an Oxford frame of mind, then the Laudian Professor of Arabic (FLC above) is in a similar style. BencherliteTalk 14:44, 3 February 2010 (UTC) And Marshal Foch Professor of French Literature is no longer a redlink... BencherliteTalk 16:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments from KV5

• "The head of the Bodleian Library, the main library at the University of Oxford, is known as Bodley's Librarian: Sir Thomas Bodley, as founder, gave his name to both library and librarian." - this seems like a lot of use of forms of the word "library". 5 times in the opening sentence? Is there any way to re-word some of these (for example, gave his name to both the building and the position?
• I don't think "Rector" is a proper noun... unless that's a full title? I'm never sure...

Other than those two minor things, well done. Cheers. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

• Fair point, changed to "the institution and the position" as (being boring) the library is more than the buildings it is in.
• I think a capital letter is appropriate since the title is "Rector of St Aldate's" e.g. the church website says "Charlie Cleverly, Rector of St Aldates, commented..." Bencherlite^Talk 16:32, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Both well-resolved. I support the promotion of this list. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:38, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:00, 3 February 2010 [32].

---

Black Eyed Peas discography

Nominator(s): Mister sparky (talk) 23:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because in the last FLC discussion there were alot of problems with the article that have now been addressed and more time has passed so there is now more information and article is longer. Mister sparky (talk) 23:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

• Quick drive-by comment - in the "other appearances" section, is it really necessary to have a notes column stating that the song was from the soundtrack of film X when the column immediately to the left lists the album the song's on as being the soundtrack to film X......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:31, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Any plans to respond to this point I raised nearly two weeks ago, even if only to tell me to get lost? :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:39, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

hey, oops! sorry i missed that one! its just how ive seen the table set out in other articles and sometimes the column is necessary. i agree that it probably isnt this time. oh and i'd never tell you to get lost :p Mister sparky (talk) 11:34, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 09:07, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Comments Not keen on a single-sentence opening paragraph. merged Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) Here's a thing. Is it "the Black Eyed Peas" or just "Black Eyed Peas"? the bands name is "black eyed peas", but the sentence flows better and sounds more grammatically correct saying "the black eyed peas" i thought... Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "Although the album got a four-star review.." - "got" - not nice. Perhaps, received? changed Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "to chart lowly in " - lowly? subjective, I'd be more precise. altered Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) sixty-seven, eighteen -> 67, 18 numbers are written in words in the rest of the lead, so keeping as words for consistency. Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "the band released their third album" - is band singular or plural? "its third album"? changed Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "two in Canada" - "number two in Canada" changed Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "It quickly became their most successful album in the US by reaching number one." - define "quickly"? removed Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "it the bands first" - I may be wrong but I would have thought that should be "band's" changed Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "It held onto the top spot for twelve weeks and was knocked off the top spot by the album's second single" - top spot is reused to quickly, and we've possibly lost track of what "It" is from the previous sentence. altered Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "This also replaced "Boom Boom Pow" at the top of the charts in Canada and Australia, as well as also peaking at number one all over the world." - also reused too much. changed Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) "Third single "Meet Me Halfway", has peaked at number one in Australia, Germany and the United Kingdom and has reached the top ten in several other countries, including the US." - unreferenced, and not grammatically correct to start the sentence that way. changed Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) Three of the EPs are unreferenced. added Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) How did "Shut Up" not chart in the US and still make Gold certification? it didn't chart on the hot 100, but the riaa says its certified gold. Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) Video albums unreferenced. added Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) As is other appearances. added Mister sparky (talk) 18:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 14:30, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

thank you for your comments! :) Mister sparky (talk) 11:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Comment: I noticed the IRE cell in the Singles section looks different than the others. --Another Believer _(Talk) 01:51, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

no idea how just that 1 cell ended up a different font size... fixed now tho Mister sparky (talk) 13:47, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

• Two more comments - there is a single listed as charting in 2010, when we are still only in 2009, and the second video album is mistitled, it should be Live from Sydney to Vegas (no "Las") -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:48, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

fixed :) Mister sparky (talk) 12:32, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Support Mm40 (talk) 14:33, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

thank you! :) Mister sparky (talk) 14:51, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Mm40 (talk)

Comments from Mm40 (talk · contribs). Ugh, not another discography! =p General No disambiguation links and ALT text is ok, but reference 35 is a dead link Lead "it only managed to chart lowly in" you should only use "only managed" with exact chart positions; I suggest "it charted lowly in" changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) "its highest peak position in New Zealand" I think "peak" is redundant and can be removed changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) "released it's third album" should have "its" not "it's"; the incorrect word means "it is" missed that one, changed 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Link "certified" to List of music recording sales certifications? added Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) You don't use the abbreviation "RIAA" elsewhere, so remove it from the lead good point, removed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Numerically order the references after the sentence ending "and number three in the United Kingdom." changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Need a comma after "the band's first US number-one hit" the next word is "and", you can't have a comma before "and" Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) "and was knocked off the number-one position by the album's second single, "I Gotta Feeling"" can be reworded "until being replaced by the album's second single, "I Gotta Feeling"" changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) "has peaked at number one in Australia, Germany and the United Kingdom and has reached the" repeats "has" twice; take out the second one changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Numerically order the references at the end of the lead changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Tables The link on "Certifications" redirects to the link for "sales threshold". Do with it what you want corrected link Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) The last certification for The E.N.D. uses a different "x" changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) The titles of the last three items in Extended plays link to specific sections which don't exist in the linked article the sub-sections of the linked articles changed. fixed now Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) I would add a non-breaking space for I Gotta Feeling's release date so the year doesn't go to the next line i know what you mean, but don't know how to do it... Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Under Singles, why is there a large gray line between the two 2000 releases? Under Singles, why is there a large gray line between the NZ and SWI charts? Under Singles, why is there a large gray line between "Shut Up" and "Hey Mama"? don't understand what you mean by these 3... unless you mean the grey lines that have to be there that separates the releases rows and columns? Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) I think Universal Island and Universal Music should be linked to something changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Should "DVD" be linked? changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) What do all the large gray lines in the Music videos table mean same as above Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Both directors boxes with Syndrome and Nabil Elderkin should read "Nabil Elderkin/Syndrome" for consistency changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Sergio Mendes needs the accent added Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) References All three general references should have YYYY-MM-DD access dates forgot about those, changed now Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) References 1, 51, 52 and need periods between Allmusic and Macrovision added Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Why doesn't reference 22 have Macrovision listed after Allmusic? forgot that one Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Remove the extra spaces before the periods in refs 43–48 changed Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Ref 42 needs a period between MTV and Viacom added Mister sparky (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2009 (UTC) Thanks for your work on the article; averaging over 1,000 hits per day, it's probably one of the most viewed discographies. I'll be happy to support once there issues are dealt with. Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 14:39, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

• Check the toolbox; there is one dead link. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:22, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

fixed :) Mister sparky (talk) 22:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support Comment Looks really good. My only comment is that ref 35 needs to be formatted (it's just a bare URL right now). Dabomb87 (talk) 17:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

has now been formatted like the rest, but isn't showing up as formatted. which i don't understand... Mister sparky (talk) 04:00, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

In the URL, there is a space between "Mas" and "Que", and between "Que" and "Nada". I think you need to either delete the spaces or make them underscores (_). Dabomb87 (talk) 18:23, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, refs that are not in English need to be denote as such, using the |language= parameter. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:24, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

thanks for that. fixed now :) Mister sparky (talk) 18:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

thank you! Mister sparky (talk) 02:58, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Ref #25 is in a different language and needs to be specified, other than that it looks fine to me. Afro (Not a Talk Page) ^{- Afkatk} 05:55, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

that ref is itunes and is in english? the refs that are in french, dutch or german say so. Mister sparky (talk) 16:41, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

At the time of my comment it wasn't specified, but since has been, so my comment is outdated. Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 17:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Goodraise (talk · contribs)

• In the video albums section, why aren't the labels of the albums given?

fixed Mister sparky (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• You are pipe-linking "Universal Island" (which I suppose you read on the physical album) to Island Def Jam Music Group. How do you know that "Universal Island" is Island Def Jam Music Group?

fixed Mister sparky (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Reference 39 could use a date of publication.

added Mister sparky (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Why is the director field empty for the music video "Union"?

could not find via a reliable source. Mister sparky (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Thus far, all attempts at convincing me that Chart Stats holds up to our standards for sources have failed. I suggest you look for another source.

chartstats was included because so far every other reviewer has accepted validity. however, have added everyhit.com Mister sparky (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Everyhit.com apparently doesn't cover titles that didn't reach Top 40. This leaves several entries sourced only to Chart Stats, the presence of which among the references is, by the way, not acceptable. Goodraise 17:16, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

removed the positions that couldnt be sourced by everyhit, used chartsplus for the others. removed chartstats completely. Mister sparky (talk) 22:54, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• Have you considered adding rankings in the Japanese charts? The E.N.D. for example peaked there at number two.[33]

the e.n.d charted highly in a number of countries around the world. but only choosing the countries where the band charted highly would not give a fair representation of chart performance. Mister sparky (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I never suggested doing that. I was merely giving a sourced example. Let me put it differently: Right now all countries covered are either European or primarily English-speaking. Adding (just for example) Japan wouldn't make the representation less fair, but more balanced. Goodraise 17:16, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I have given this nomination a thorough review and fixed various issues myself and would support if it weren't for the issues listed above. For now, I will have to oppose, mainly because of the usage of Chart Stats. Goodraise 07:47, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I can now weakly support this nomination. What's keeping me from fully supporting is the imbalance of covered national charts with all nations being either European or primarily English-speaking. Goodraise 00:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I have to oppose again. After reading everyHit.com's two about pages, about.html and about2.html. I fail to see how the page meets the criteria. My apologies for accepting the source initially, I should have acted more carefully. Goodraise 19:17, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

the BBC regularly uses everyhit.com as a source for its music articles one eg here, the BBC would not use a source which is unreliable. Mister sparky (talk) 19:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

also, everyhit.com has been cited by British MPs during policy discussions: [34]. Mister sparky (talk) 21:30, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

also by Reuters and even in Norway. Mister sparky (talk) 22:13, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Sadly, the reliable sources noticeboard thread on everyHit.com did not produce a lot of feedback. Looking at the provided examples of everyHit.com being cited by other sources myself, I have to admit that it's a start, but it's not enough for me to accept the source, especially since better sources do exist. Then there is the newly introduced source Video Static that looks to me like a random blog. What makes it reliable? Finally, there's the fact that the list limits itself to charts of primarily English-speaking and European nations, which is a balance problem at best, a lack of comprehensiveness at worst. -- "A featured list exemplifies our very best work." I'm sorry, but this list does not. Remaining opposed. Goodraise 02:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

BTW, the newly added reference 28 seems to be broken. It brings me to Allmusic's start page. Goodraise 03:11, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

well nothing else i can do about your chart opinion, each position can be individually cited by using chartsplus but that would be an unnecessary last resort. out of a list of 10 counties, only 5 are english-speaking and only 6 are european. the only other country you could be meaning to add would be japan. then that demonstrates an unfair bias towards japan on your part because of your insistance of its addition. and fixed ref 28. Mister sparky (talk) 18:05, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

As I said before, I was merely giving a sourced example. You said yourself that "the e.n.d charted highly in a number of countries around the world". I may assume that is the case for other of the band's albums and singles too? Those charts are published somewhere, aren't they? If they are, then not including them becomes an issue of comprehensiveness. Goodraise 00:46, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

well have had a good search through the net using various translators to find BEP charting info in japan. but so far, have only found that 1 album that charted there, the example you provided. which other country that has a reliable chart archive that isn't already included would you recommend? Mister sparky (talk) 00:52, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Here the database entries for BEP albums that charted in Japan with online translation links for your convenience: [35] trans. [36] trans. [37] trans. [38] trans. [39] trans. [40] trans. [41] trans. [42] trans. BTW, the website can be searched conveniently from here. As for your question: You don't seem willing to understand that the existence of a convenient online archive is not a prerequisite for inclusion. Any reliable source will do, even ones printed on paper. Goodraise 00:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

also removed the videostatic ref until a more reliable source becomes available and added footnote. Mister sparky (talk) 18:19, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments General Alt text, dabs and external links all check out fine. Did you consult with User:Garden about this nomination? Since he originally nominated the article the first time around? Mister sparky is the primary contributor, but perhaps we should add Garden as a co-nominator. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC) didn't consult User:Garden because he only contributed to the article from 5th-21st Feb 2009 during the FLC discussions and hasn't been back since. Mister sparky (talk) 18:01, 18 January 2010 (UTC) It's only fair since he did make the initial nomination.--Truco 503 03:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Lead The main problem I see is that you state phrases like ..charted number two in France or ..charted in Canada. But there are so many charts in each country, which one could you possibly be speaking of? I would make it clear by stating which chart, as you did with the US Billboard. added. but most redirect to the recording industry. Mister sparky (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC) The Billboard Hot 100 should have the link when it is first mentioned not on the second instance. fixed Mister sparky (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC) Studio albums Why does the NZ pipe to the recording industry versus to a chart article? rianz is the provider of the new zealand charts. and there isn't an article for the new zealand album chart. Mister sparky (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC) I agree with Goodraise above that why not mention all the charts? Not just English based ones. main reason was that this is the english wikipedia and english is the most widely spoken language in the world. and only 5 out of the 10 countries are english speaking. 17:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC) also, even with google translate, trying to understand the japanese website was proving very difficult. so if you know of an enlgish one? Mister sparky (talk) 17:29, 18 January 2010 (UTC) Singles The first couple of singles need to be verified somehow since they did not chart, they have no legit or direct source. added Mister sparky (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC) Directors Why does Union not have a director? could not find via a reliable source. Mister sparky (talk) 17:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC) Then state that in a footnote.--Truco 503 03:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC) added Mister sparky (talk) 21:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC) --Truco 503 16:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- Comments resolved; meets WP:WIAFL.Truco ₅₀₃ 03:14, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

thank you! :) Mister sparky (talk) 11:06, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

• Quick Comment - Is there a reason why Shot is in Caps in Ref #50? Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 20:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

having a quick look, the section of the article where the information is located has it as the heading. Mister sparky (talk) 22:17, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

• Well I would think per WP:ALLCAPS it shouldn't be All caps. Plus #37 ^ a b ""Blackl Eyed Peas: Discography: DVDs & Videos". " typo. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 00:04, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

good point! thanks, fixed. Mister sparky (talk) 00:31, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - Now that those minor things are fixed I have no problems with the list. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 11:50, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

thank you! :) Mister sparky (talk) 12:59, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support: I cannot find any issues with this article. It is well written, properly charted and well sourced. It meets all the FLC criteria and does demonstrate the best WP has to offer. GroundZ3R0 002 22:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

thank you! :) Mister sparky (talk) 18:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

• Can you fix the reference that Goodraise has noted above? It does, indeed, just lead to the Allmusic homepage. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

when i click on ref 28 it goes to the correct page? Mister sparky (talk) 15:30, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Yep, you're right. The link in the article is correct. The link posted above by Goodraise does link to the homepage. No problem then. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:10, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

silly goodraise. Mister sparky (talk) 22:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I pointed it out. You fixed it. Why am I silly? Goodraise 00:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment While I agree that everyhit.com is not of the highest quality, I think the links provided ensure that it's at least acceptable, and as it used sparingly, I don't think it's a big enough issue to deny this list FL status. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• Comment - Though the About section of the site is makes it kind of questionable, I think it can be used in this case and as it was said at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard BBC Radio One does recommend it. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 00:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

thanks guys :) Mister sparky (talk) 21:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comments – The writing itself seems fine, but why is "I Gotta Feeling" linked twice so close together? That has to be the closest repeated linking I've ever seen in an article. I also noticed the missing director in the video listing; this may have been tried already, but is the name given in the video itself? If so, you could just cite the video. Not a big deal if it isn't there, though. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

fixed the overlink, no idea why it was linked twice so close together lol. but the director for Union has only been found via blogs and fansites so far :( Mister sparky (talk) 22:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:00, 3 February 2010 [43].

---

United States Secretary of Transportation

Nominator(s): Reywas92^Talk 23:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry there aren't a ton a references, but the two with the list and department information were pretty good. I've tried to include all relevant information, but I'm happy to research something further without going into too much detail. Reywas92^Talk 23:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

And, to clarify, I'm in the Wikicup. Reywas92^Talk 03:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Comment - Should acting secretar(ies) be included? I am asking because based on my research on this list, Maria Cino was the acting Secretary of Transportation briefly and she isn't on the list.—Chris!_c/t 00:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I prefer not to because most did so with limited duties for only a few days or weeks as an interim until the newly-appointed Secretary took office, when they returned to the usual Deputy. They are rightly not included in most other lists, and they disrupt the table. Reywas92^Talk 00:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I suppose you are right.—Chris!_c/t 22:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Comments.

1. Should not the article be renamed to List if United States Secretaries of Transportation?

No. As Chris said, this is also still the top article for the position, and a split is a 3b violation. The other secretary lists are also this way.

1. The salary of the Secretary of Transportation is $199,700. This sentence is out of places and should be moved to the end of the second paragraph.

Done. Thanks! Reywas92^Talk 22:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Ruslik_Zero 20:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it should be renamed since this article is about the position as well. And per criteria 3b, both United States Secretaries of Transportation and List of United States Secretaries of Transportation should not be split and should be combined as one article.—Chris!_c/t 22:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I am satisfied with the answers, so I am supporting. Ruslik_Zero 19:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 11:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Comments Nice list, but two things strike me: 1) It would be natural to include the party of the minister 2) Would it not be better to link to the article about the cabinet (or the US equivalent term) instead of just the article on the president? See for instance how this is done at Minister of Transport and Communications (Norway). Arsenikk (talk) 15:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Parties aren't quite as relevant for a somewhat non-partisan office, but I'll take a look. It does link to the Cabinet, but you might have missed it because it's right next to the link about the President. Reywas92Talk 22:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC) What I was thinking was that instead of linking to 'George W. Bush', instead link to 'George W. Bush Cabinet' (and likewise for the other presidents/cabinets). I also notice in the mentioned cabinet article that Norman Mineta was a Democrat, despite serving under Bush. Since there seems to not be a 1:1 relation between the president and minister parties, this makes it even more important to state the person's party, since I would otherwise have been under the impression that Mineta was a Republican. Arsenikk (talk) 00:14, 12 January 2010 (UTC) I agree with Arsenikk, party seems to be quite relevant here.—Chris!c/t 19:35, 12 January 2010 (UTC) We do not have an article just about his Cabinet or any president's cabinet. I will work on the parties. Reywas92Talk 02:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC) Parties have been added, though the table is vrey wide now. Reywas92Talk 18:54, 16 January 2010 (UTC) What about linking to Presidency of Bill Clinton instead of Bill Clinton? (And, of course, doing the same thing for all other presidents who have such articles). The Ministry (talk) 23:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC) That was sort of what I was thinking of. The point is that a person who is interested in a series of ministers is going to be more interested in an article about the cabinet/presidency than of just a general biograph of the president. Arsenikk (talk) 23:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Too inconsistent. Other than the fact that some of the presidents don't have those articles, it's easy enough to click through. The president is relevant, not just the presidency. Reywas92Talk 01:34, 20 January 2010 (UTC) Sorry for the late reply. I honestly cannot see what is inconsistent with this. It would be natural for a reader to seek the context of the appointment, such as the term, co-secretaries, cabinet policy etc, which is covered in the presidency article. It is less likely that a reader will want a general biography article about a president. Navigating from an article about a president to that of his presidency (and understanding that this is about his cabinet) is a rather difficult affair; conversely, navigating from a presidency article to that of the president is easy, should someone want a general biography of him. Arsenikk (talk) 18:39, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Btw, I'm also in the Wikicup, but I am not trying to be difficult because of that. There is nothing I would rather see than coming in last place in the cup because everyone else made super-duper articles and lists. Arsenikk (talk) 18:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Sorry, but I'm big on consistency and I hope you understand that I do not want some pages linking to the President and some to the Presidency. In other secretary lists with people from longer ago, a vast majority of the preisdents do not have a separate subarticle; in this aricle it's about half-and-half, and the styles should not be split. Reywas92Talk 03:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC) (unindent) Given recent edits to related lists, I disagree that this has to follow other styles. Nonetheless, Reywas is saying that half of these articles do not exist. The options are therefore: To link to the biographies. To link to the presidencies where available, and the biographies the rest of the time. To link to the presidencies, and have redlinks where these articles do not exist. Add a column to allow both. I'm against the third option. Although I am a fan of good redlinks, removing the direct links to the presidents means that they will not be linked at all. That does not strike me as an improvement. The fourth would solve this, but would also look silly. The second option means that this list will be more useful for some presidencies than others. I think Arsenikk makes a valid point, but I question whether there is a better way of doing it. WFCforLife (talk) 03:31, 2 February 2010 (UTC) Done #2. Discussing this may be more of a problem than it itself. Reywas92Talk

Support excellent list which deserves a star. Arsenikk ^(talk) 11:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 09:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Alt text is weak for me. e.g. the infobox image doesn't mention he's wearing a blue tie and is in front of a US flag. I've worked on it. I don't see where ref [1] says this position is 14th in line to the presidency. Added " and he would subsequently be" why not "subsequently becoming"? Changed "serving Secretary, serving for over five and a half years" why not add some variety and say "holding the post for over..."? Changed. Not sure President of the US needs linking in the heading of the table, it is, after all, already linked in the lead. Removed Publication dates should be same format as accessdates. Changed In such a US-centric article, perhaps the ref dates should be mdy not dmy? Changed, but that's the way WikEd automatically adds it for me. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:19, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks! Reywas92Talk 22:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Succession in the infobox is linked to a generic article about succession. It should link to the presidential one. That's automatically there from the Template:Infobox Political post. If it's always referring to the presidential line then it should link more accurately. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC) It's not. The template can be used for any country. Reywas92Talk 11:34, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Aha, I see. I'm someone clever could modify the template so that if it said "country=US" (say), then the link leads to the presidential line. I understand it may be out of the scope of this particular FLC but it certainly seems to be something we could improve. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:42, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Good idea, but I don't know how to do that. Reywas92Talk 02:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC) Perhaps leave a note on the template's talkpage? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:26, 13 January 2010 (UTC) Message left. Reywas92Talk 18:54, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Someone has changed that and fixed all the links.

• Comment: The party thing seems off to me. It's a non-partisan office, and candidates who are registered with another party are occasionally chosen. But the main thing is, it's unreferenced. The only general ref doesn't mention party affiliation at all. --Golbez (talk) 19:59, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't really care. While it is still partisan, it's not really political. The point is to show those cross-overs. I doubt I could find a reference other than individual irrelevant mentions. Any other opinions? Reywas92^Talk 22:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - Ref #6 contains 2 References, I'm just wondering as to why these aren't 2 separate references. Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 09:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
  • The two work together. One indicates that the Secretary is Class 1 of the executive schedule, and the other gives its salary. Reywas92^Talk 22:04, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Well I was just wondering, since it looked kind of odd, it was no big problem anyway. Afro (Not a Terrible Joke) ^{- Afkatk} 09:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - I support it, though the date on Ref #5 should be formatted more like the others. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 23:26, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Fixed. Thanks! Reywas92^Talk 03:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments from WFCforLife

• Was Mineta 69 at the start or the end of his tenure?
  • Start. I think it's inferred from the first part of the sentence.
    • That's the way I read it. I just thought it would make more sense to give his age at the end. This is a bit of a Brit-orientated example, but in a list of the oldest footballers, we would say that Stanley Matthews played professionally until he was 50, not that he joined Stoke at 46. WFCforLife (talk) 04:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
      • Changed to retiring age. Reywas92^Talk 16:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
• Not being from the US, I don't understand the relevance of "State of Residence". I understand what it means, but not the significance. What if one of them moved house?
  • No significance, really, but often it's nice to have where they're from listed. Politicians are normally associated with a certain state, which doesn't change very often; they're referenced in the general ref.
• Agree with Afkatk on the date
  • Fixed.

Otherwise it looks pretty good. Regards, WFCforLife (talk) 02:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Disclosure: Not certain about Reywas because I can't load the page, but I'm in the wikicup. WFCforLife (talk) 02:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• • Thanks! (And I am.) Reywas92^Talk 03:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
    • Support. I have no real preference between the solutions I have given above. WFCforLife (talk) 04:49, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:00, 3 February 2010 [44].

---

List of IIHF World Under-20 Championship players for Canada

Nominator(s): Scorpion⁰⁴²² 01:52, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh boy, my first nomination since August. For those of you who may have forgotten me, I'm that guy that used to hang around here and occasionally nominate lists. This list is largely modeled after the List of Olympic men's ice hockey players for Canada and List of Men's World Ice Hockey Championship players for Canada (1977–present) (though it's more similar to the former, because it does not use the medal tally system used in the latter). This page might just be the most work I've ever done for a list, so enjoy. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 01:52, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:11, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments - bit too long buddy, scared off even our regulars! I'll need to do this review a bit at a time if that's okay... Lead first. Ping me when you're ready to move on! "Under 20" or "Under-20" - be consistent. Done. I'd prefer to see NHL expanded before you use it. Done. "Canada has gone on to win more gold medals than any other nation. Canada has had two five year gold medal winning streaks, 1993–1997 and 2005–2009.[5] Canada's team is usually..." Three consecutive sentences starting with "Canada..." is a bit dry for me. Fixed. Not sure whether the "infamous brawl" is relevant in a list of U-20 players. My rationale for it is that it had a huge effect on 20 of the players there because it meant that they did not get a medal and that the stats for a game they played were not counted. I felt it needed to be explained, and to do it properly takes a bit longer than I thought. "The IIHF voted to suspend all players involved from competing in international events for 18 months, and all coaches for three years.[7] The player suspensions were later cut to six months, which allowed eligible players such as Fleury to participate in the 1988 tournament.[8] The brawl helped raise the profile of the tournament.." - sorry but this may sound picky - if we keep all this info on the brawl, then I'd prefer not to see three consecutive sentences starting "The..." Fixed. "12 goals, 19 assists and a total 31 points" - is a "point" a goal or an assist? If so this should be something like, "12 goals, 19 assists for a total of 31..." shouldn't it? Yes, you are right. My mistake. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 02:36, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Okay, so onto the table... Not sure why when sorting by, say, GAA, I get a mixture of 0.00 and en-dashes... before I get positive results. I'm not sure what is going on with that. I tried using {{sort|0.01|-}} but then the dashes were coming in after the 0s but before the poisitive numbers. I'm not sure what's going on, it might be something with the tables. Sorting by medal - I may have mentioned this before in Olympic style sorting, but isn't one gold worth more than a billion silvers, one silver worth more than a billion bronze? I guess it depends how you look at things, but I'd expect one gold (plus other types) to rank above two silvers... You have MIN in the key, Min in the table. Fixed. And no Min (or MIN) for skaters. Can you explain this? Minutes for skaters is not a regularily tracked statistic, partially because goalies usually play the entire game (as opposed to skaters, who usually averge 20-30 minutes and switch shifts dozens of times during gameplay), and minutes are used to calculate the Goals Against Average. I don't think this needs to be explained in the article. Is it worth explaining that players who actually play in zero games still get medals? Possibly. The only players who played zero games are goalies, and they still dressed for games, they just didn't log any ice time. Note 1 has a spaced hyphen - naughty per WP:DASH. Like I have said many times, I have given up trying to figure out that policy. Fixed. And an unspaced hyphen too. Double naughty per WP:DASH. Are you referring to "bench-clearing brawl" or "4-2"? 4-2... The Rambling Man (talk) 11:19, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Fixed. -- Scorpion0422 03:00, 18 January 2010 (UTC) "stats" (in note 1) should be statistics. Done. Refs 3, 4 and 8 need en-dashes. Added. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:53, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 04:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments – Comma after "The brawl helped raise the profile of the tournament in Canada." Done. "19 assists for a total 31 points over three tournaments." Add "of" after "total". Done. First general reference could use an access date, as does inline 12. Done. Reference 2 needs a publisher, and references 6 and 10 should have the publisher spelled out to match the other links to that site. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:27, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Done. Thanks for taking a look. -- Scorpion0422 00:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC) I have added a publisher to ref #2. As for the first general ref, I added an accessdate during my initial efforts to address your concerns, but it didn't show because it's a cite book template. -- Scorpion0422 00:10, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Still a lot of images without alt text. I'll leave it to others to decide if the list should be promoted as-is. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Support – All looks good to go now. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:14, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Staxringold talkcontribs 23:15, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Ah, a sports list, something I feel like I can talk about. I feel as though the very first sentence of the lead is out of place. Shouldn't the background info on the tourny in general come before noting how many Canada has played in? Say... Insert it right after where ref 1 is now? It's debatable, but my rationale was that the article is about Canada's involvement in the tournament, so it makes sense to start out with something that reflects that. I suppose. Just reads oddly to me, saying Canada has done X a whole bunch of times before you know what X is. Staxringold talkcontribs 07:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC) "With National Hockey League (NHL) players participating in the tournament, IIHF officials began to fear that true amateurs and young players were losing their places." Needs a ref, even if it's a repeat of a ref for another sentence. The ref is the next sentence over. Ok. It's worth repeating refs to be clear, tho. Staxringold talkcontribs 07:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC) Well, it depends on who you talk to. Half of all reviewers will tell you not to use two of the same citations in a row (unless it's either a quote or very contentious information), while the other half will say every statement needs an individual citation. I tend to lean more towards the former. -- Scorpion0422 04:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC) I've never ever heard of a reviewer calling for less referncing. Staxringold talkcontribs 04:26, 23 January 2010 (UTC) It's not less referencing, it's just using less of the same citation in a row. My point was that some reviewers will tell you not to use the same citation 2 or 3 times in a row and that one at the end will suffice. -- Scorpion0422 05:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC) "As a result, full world championship status was given to the World Under-20 Championship." Also needs a ref. Next sentence over. Above. Staxringold talkcontribs 07:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC) "During the first years of the tournament, Canada did not have a national team, instead choosing to send a club team, typically the Memorial Cup winner." That sounds like enough of a statement of fact to need a ref, particularly with the words "instead choosing" and not just summarizing data from the table. Next sentence over. The first two paragraphs of the lead are all dependant on citations, none of the statements rely on any of the general references. Above. Staxringold talkcontribs 07:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC) Do Joyce or Podnieks cite the second paragraph? I ask because basically the first half, which includes a lot of specific details not in the online refs, remains uncited. Also, more information is always great, but what do the details of this brawl tell you about Canadian IIHF under-20 players? Like I mentioned to TRM, the brawl is very important to note, because it meant the complete disqualification of a team and as a result 20 of the listed players did not win medals. As this list is basically about Canada's involvement in the tourament, I felt the brawl needed to be fully explained. Fair enough, but what about citations? Large parts of those facts aren't in the online sources I can access. I WP:AGF that they're in the offline sources, if you say so. Staxringold talkcontribs 07:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC) I realize that, and it is one of the negatives about using print sources, but it does check out. -- Scorpion0422 04:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC) "47.1%, have won at least one gold member." Typo, I assume. Fixed. Not specific to this list, but having the #s on the medal icons is very confusing. I definitely thought those were counts of those medals for a minute. :p They come with the template used. You include memberships in Halls of Fame, understandably. I get that this tourny isn't directly tied to a league (like the NHL or the Russian league), but might big NHL events (MVPs, Stanley Cups) be worthy of inclusion in the notes section? This is a real question, dunno how impractical that would be. Staxringold talkcontribs 06:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC) I have considered including first overall NHL draft picks, as play in the tournament does help raise the profile of top draftees, but I haven't yet. Thanks for the review. -- Scorpion0422 00:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC) That actually makes more sense, given the age group here, things like Rookie of the Year (does the NHL have that?), draft pick, etc. Staxringold talkcontribs 07:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC) There is an NHL rookie of the year award (Calder Memorial Trophy), but I'm against adding it. My reasoning is that the player's performance in the tournament has no impact at all on whether they win any NHL awards, so to note it would just be trivia. In theory, a player's performance could affect their being voted into a Hall of Fame (though let's be honest, very very few Canadian Hockey Hall of Famers were inducted for their international careers) and their status as a potential draft pick. I would be willing to add first overall draft picks, but NHL awards crosses the line. -- Scorpion0422 04:01, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support I would ref the lead a bit differently, but it's a style choice. Staxringold _talk^contribs 23:15, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Harrias (talk) 17:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments - "In 1978, an all-star team was sent,[3] The first national junior team participated in the 1982 tournament, and became the first Canadian team to win a gold medal.[4]" Doesn't scan right, and 'The' shouldn't be capitalised. Fixed. "and had two five year gold medal winning streaks" for clarity sake, can we change to "two five-year" Done. "leading to both benches clearing". I know what you mean, but I don't think my girlfriend would. Is there any way to make it clear what you mean by this for someone that doesn't know too much about hockey? Switched to "eventually leading to most of the players from both teams joining the brawl" Does that work better? Mins and GA don't sort properly for me in the goaltender list. I get the 0, 1, 10, 11, 2 problem. The tables are screwy, because the first time you click sort, it works perfectly (well, for me anyway), clicking again leads to problems. I'll try to fix it.

• None of the images have alt text, which is a requirement per WP:ALT.
  • I'm going to say right now that I will not be adding alt text. It will be a waste of my time, and it will add thousands of bytes to an already huge page. I've always found that guideline horrible, and I don't see how it helps out in a list like this. Each one would be along the lines of "an ice hockey player wearing a red jersey and holding a stick while on ice", and how does that help people who are unable to see the image, given that there are dozens of them? Of course there's going to be pictures of players, what else would there be?
    • I will try to take care of the alt text when I get the time. Dabomb87 (talk) 05:34, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
      • No, please don't waste your time doing it. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 05:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
        • You can't just pick and choose the guidelines you follow. Featured content requires images to have alt text, and besides that, it's common courtesy to those accessing wikipedia with a screen readers; would you want to hear "Link image colon Theodore zero one two seven zero nine dot jee pee gee"? Harrias (talk) 10:19, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
          • Too late, already done. It didn't take that long. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:49, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
            • This is the first, and hopefully last, time I am ever going to point to this guideline, but we are allowed to ignore all rules. In this case, I feel that the alt text adds a lot of unnecessary bytes to the article and gives very little in return, which is why I am against it. If we were talking about one or two images, then okay (I would still find it pointless, but whatever), but we're talking about dozens of images in an already very large list. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 00:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

All in all, it looks a very good list, and while there seem to be a fair few issues listed here, considering the size of the list, that's to be expected. Definitely worthy of FL in my opinion, once these issues have been cleared up. Harrias (talk) 11:42, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 00:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Support, nice list, good work! Harrias (talk) 17:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support I figured after adding alt text to all the images and looking at the list several times there was no way I could remain neutral. This is good stuff, and the list meets the FL criteria. Also, I made a few copy-edits to the lead for redundancy, flow, grammar and MOS compliance, so you may want to check over them. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:57, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 14:00, 3 February 2010 [45].

---

List of Governors of New Jersey

Nominator(s): A Stop at Willoughby (talk), Golbez (talk)

I am nominating this for featured list because after considerable work, I am confident that this list is comprehensive and meets the featured list criteria. It was peer-reviewed here. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 19:16, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments

• "duty to enforce state laws, and the power to either" No comma needed.
• "and Richard Codey, and also affected" No comma needed.
• "original thirteen colonies, and was admitted" No comma needed.
• The red coloring for Kim Guadagno is unnecessary. Since the Lt. Gov. runs on the same ticket, he/she will always be the same party as the Gov.

Great job overall! Reywas92^Talk 23:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

All changes made, though I would prefer to keep the coloring there. --Golbez (talk) 01:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I changed "and Richard Codey and also affected Jim McGreevey's numbering" to "and Richard Codey, affecting Jim McGreevey's numbering," which is a better wording in my opinion. I've no preference either way regarding the coloring. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 01:48, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

But what's the point of it? On many of your lists there should be colors because they may be different parties, but for NJ that's impossible, so the color is always redundant. Reywas92^Talk 01:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily impossible; unity tickets do happen, even in the presidency. --Golbez (talk) 02:48, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Eh, it can be readded if/when that happens. Anyway, Support and good work! Reywas92^Talk 02:54, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support, co-nominating. --Golbez (talk) 01:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

• Request - Since we have a new governor, can someone please review the alt text for the new lead image? Also, did I pick the right author for the new book reference, the Manual of the Legislature? Fitzgerald is credited as 'Publisher' but her name is the only one on the book's cover, so I figured that was safer than going with the 'Compiler', Dullard. --Golbez (talk) 19:00, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
  • And also, when citing it, should I say "Manual p. ###" or "Fitzgerald p. ###"? --Golbez (talk) 19:02, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
    • In fact, in case anyone has already looked at the article, here's the recent batch of edits that *finally* bring it to full quality, I think: [46] Just full disclosure since these are rather major things being added after the FLC started. --Golbez (talk) 20:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Support: Comments: Leaning toward support. In the interest of full disclosure, I should say that I peer reviewed this list and discussed aspects of it on its talk page. The article has steadily improved since my review and is generally excellent. I have a few remaining quibbles.

• I think the fractions in the "Term" column of the tables should all appear in the same type size; i.e., 1⁄2, 1⁄5. I would recommend the {{frac}} template for them all.
  • Frac is ugly. :P I'd like to avoid that, but if others agree, then I'll do it.
    • Actually, frac should be used for accessibility reasons. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:41, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
      • All right then. I changed the entire column to {{frac}} for uniformity and per the suggestions here. It doesn't look as good in my opinion, but I suppose accessibility takes precedence. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 06:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
• "Under this Constitution, the governor was president... " - Lower-case "constitution" for consistency?
  • Fixed.
• "Under the 1776 constitution, the Vice-President of the Legislative Council would act as governor should that office be vacant." The verbs seem a little odd to me since we are talking about the past. Perhaps "The 1776 constitution specified that the vice-president of the legislative council would act as governor should that office be vacant."
  • Done.
• Alt text of Chris Christie looks fine to me.
  • Agreed. I made a couple of minor modifications, but I think it's in good shape now. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 06:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
• The Google Books summary page for Fitzgerald's Legislative Manual, 1921 lists several authors under "More book information", starting with F.L. Lundy. If the Google information is correct, this could be entered as "Lundy, F.L. et al. Usually citations take the form "Author, p. X" rather than "Title, p X". In the case of two or more books by the same author, the date is added; i.e., Author (date), p X. If the citations were organized by "Author, p. X", it would be easier for a reader to find the corresponding author in the "General" list. As it is, a reader is forced to figure out the match between say, "1921 Manual" in citation 27 and "Fitzgerald, Josephine A" in the General list. It appears that the 1905 manual has the identical multiple authors so you would need to use Lundy et al. (1905) and Lundy et al. (1921) to distinguish them.
  • OK, I'll switch to this.
• The General subsection of the Reference section should be arranged alphabetically to make it easier to find any particular item.
  • I've set the book refs apart from the major general refs and alphabetized them, is that okay?

Looks good to me. Finetooth (talk) 19:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• George W.F. Gaunt should not be redlinked more than once. He's redlinked in notes 30 and 31. Finetooth (talk) 19:37, 20 January 2010 (UTC)<
  • Done. --Golbez (talk) 20:40, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - the first table should be sortable—Chris!_c/t 19:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Not possible, unless you want me to get rid of the rowspan and make 76 "None"s appear. Also, what is the point? If you want an alphabetical list of governors, we have a category for that; it's already sorted by date; I suppose you could sort by party but those are already counted and easily visible; and number of terms, but that wouldn't help too many people, not many people want to know how many times a governor was elected. --Golbez (talk) 20:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
    • IMO, the category can't replace the list in terms of usefulness, so I still think sorting is important here. But I will wait and see what others think.—Chris!_c/t 20:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
      • I disagree. Having 76 cells all saying "none" before you hit the first lt. gov. is simply unnecessary. Like Golbez, I don't think sortability would be particularly valuable in this particular list. Why don't you think the category is a sufficient replacement for an alphabetical sort? A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 06:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
        • If you insist, then my comment could be ignored. Sortability is a part of the FL criteria and it should be implemented unless there is a valid reason not to. In this case, I think you can argue that a valid reason exists because of the rowspan. But I still disagree with the notion that a category can replace a list. List provides far more information than a category.—Chris!_c/t 20:56, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
          • Yes, lists offer more than categories, but again, let's think about what sorting gains you. You would only reasonably gain three sort abilities by making this list sortable: Name, party, and # of terms. # of terms is useful for finding out who was elected the most times, but that's about it. It doesn't tell you how long the person was in office. Party is somewhat useful, but since we already tell the reader how many people were in a specific party, it won't help for counting, it will only help to make finding people of a certain party slightly easier to find. And name isn't useful because it's duplicated by a category. My point is, if there were a table whose only sorting utility were to alphabetize it, would you still say that the category couldn't do just as good a job? This isn't like a list of countries where being able to sort by population, area, HDI, GDP, etc. gives you more insight into the list, without requiring multiple, pre-sorted lists, or a list of, say, marathon winners, where you could sort by time they took to run the race as well as name and year (assuming it would be sorted by default on year). My point is, sorting is extremely useful, but let's recognize that there are some tables where it is far more useful than others. --Golbez (talk) 21:46, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
            • I concur with Golbez, and I note that the FL criteria do not require sortability except where helpful. My opinion is that sortability in this table would be of negligible helpfulness and come with the negative side effect mentioned above. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 01:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• As a side issue, one note lack references. I can see why some (like "Resigned to be Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency") don't need any because one can refer to the biography of the governor. But others such as note 39 do need one.—Chris!_c/t 21:03, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Although all of my concerns above have been satisfied (and I have switched to "support"), I agree with Chris that the claims in note 39 should be supported with a citation to an RS. Finetooth (talk) 21:42, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I usually omit specific references when they are easily verified on the NGA list, but when there are complex ones that aren't extremely easy to verify, they need a specific citation, and you are right, that one needs a specific citation. I will fix it. --Golbez (talk) 21:46, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Reference (a 2002 NY Times article) added. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 01:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support - Sortable or not, this is still a great list. So, I am comfortable supporting.—Chris!_c/t 03:41, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support - I think everything looks in order. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 17:05, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments

• Lead image could be expanded potentially, if the resolution supports it.
  • Done. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• NJ Legislature is overlinked.
  • Fixed. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• "of the Senate.[6] which was continued" I'm guessing you mean a comma here rather than a period?
  • Indeed. I rewrote the entire sentence; I think it reads much better now. A Stop at Willoughby (talk)
• "have officially been 55 governors" why not, "have been 55 official governors"?
  • Fixed. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• I would have thought images exist freely for all of these governors. Why not include them in the table?
  • For many (possibly most) free images do exist, but I'm reluctant to include the images in the table like that. My personal preference is to have images of a few governors off to the side, as with this list, Governor of New York, List of Governors of Delaware, etc. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
    • To clarify: If we had images for every entry, we'd include them, but FLC in the past, as I recall, has told me that if we shouldn't use placeholders, and if not every cell has an image then some are randomly narrower and it becomes, well, ugly. And we don't have pictures of everyone. --Golbez (talk) 23:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• Italic numbers don't appear to be explained.
  • Fixed. A Stop at Willoughby (talk)
• "Other offices held" table is sortable, the main table isn't. Seems a bit odd (but I understand that your row spanning Lt Governor col wrecks it) - perhaps think again?
  • ... Think what? We can't make the main table sortable, are you suggesting making the lower table unsortable? --Golbez (talk) 23:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• What does H & S mean in the second table?
  • "House of Representatives" and "Senate." Do you think it's confusing? The titles of the columns make the "H" and "S" self-explanatory. A Stop at Willoughby (talk) 21:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm willing to try including congressmen and senators in text rather than using H/S, but that would lead to a lot of repeated mentions. --Golbez (talk) 23:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The Rambling Man (talk) 20:11, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 16:03, 2 February 2010 [47].

---

List of UTA TRAX stations

Nominator(s): Patriarca12 (talk) 03:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it meets the FL criteria as it is based on the templates set forth in previous FL on similar lists of stations. Patriarca12 (talk) 03:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Arsenikk (talk) 19:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments: A nice list that has all the basics, but a few picky details remain before the star can be added. The map needs alt text. Alt text added. The article fails to mention that this system is in the United States. Added Instead of "Presently, the 19.6-mile (31.5 km) network serves over 45,200 passengers a day...", cut out 'presently' and add the year for the daily ridership. Corrected Could a comma or two be added in the first sentence of the second paragraph to ease the flow and help the reader find a suitable point to take a breath. Broke the sentence into two sentences. "initially" should be moved further forward in the sentence about the art program. Moved The last sentence in the second paragraph needs at least one comma. Done Perhaps I am wrong or this is a subjective matter, but the use of 'would' to describe past tense seems a bit "sticky" and hinders the flow of the prose. Consider "saw" instead of "would see" etc. Done "three station" should be hyphenated (three-station). Re-worded In the second-last sentence of the lead, it should be X miles of track. Done "Jurisdiction" should be left-aligned, not center-aligned (internal consistency). Similarly "jurisdiction" and "projected completion" in the second table. Done I take it you have checked thoroughly to make sure that the ridership figures for each station have not been published? Not all authorities do this, but if they do, then those numbers should be added. I have been unable to find statistics for boardings at individual stations from an official UTA source. If one becomes available, I will add those numbers at that time. I always like to see either distance or travel time to the "hub" so the reader has a better understanding of distance in the network. I have left this out of this list because I personally feel that that type of information is more appropriate for the individual line pages. However, I am more then happy to include it here if there is a consensus on the issue. "Light rail" is overlinked in the future section. Delinked The second sentence needs a comma or two. Done The length of the additional track to be added is mentioned three times, and seems to have two separate values. Corrected There seems to have been established consensus at AfD that at least commuter/transit stations that are under planning should in general not have an article until at least construction has started or opening is imminent. This is especially the case for light-rail stations, so I would have though all the planned stations would fail AfD as of 2010. I would therefore propose de-linking the stations, under the understanding that they become re-linked at a future date when sufficient information exist that the stations could have their own article. Thanks for commenting on this as I was not sure as to whether or not to show all of the station redlinks. All have been removed and will be re-added when appropriate. There should not be a space after the endashes in the "projected completion" column of the planned stations section. 'Gardner Village' and 'Redwood Road' both should have endashes instead of hyphens. Done Is there any map available of the future expansions (geographic or schematic)? I have not seen a properly licensed and available copy of a map of the future expansions, and I also do not have the personal capabilities to create one. In several of the references (notably 1, 6 and 14–18) use an endash instead of a hyphen for punctuation. Done Arsenikk (talk) 14:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for taking the time to look and comment on this. It is appreciated! Patriarca12 (talk) 05:21, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Support Arsenikk ^(talk) 19:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 This is a really nice-looking list. Here are my thoughts and suggestions: "Twenty-three more stations" - I think additional instead of "more" would be more encyclopedic tone Done "and increase the overall length" - and would increase, since this is still speculative and subject to change Done "All of the stations along the UTA TRAX network are open-air structures featuring passenger canopies for protection from adverse weather conditions designed to resemble the canopy at the Joseph Smith Memorial Building.[5]" - a little awkward, this could currently be read that the weather conditions are designed to resemble the canopy, etc., etc. I suggest All of the stations along the UTA TRAX network are open-air structures designed to resemble the canopy at the Joseph Smith Memorial Building, and feature passenger canopies for protection from adverse weather conditions.[5] Reworded "The line would see the construction of a pair of infill stations with the opening of 900 South in 2005 and Sandy Expo in 2006 as a result of demand for the new service." - change "would see" to saw; also "the" is superfluous in "the new service" Done "The University Line would commence service on December 15, 2001" - change "would commence" to commenced Done "It would then see a three station expansion open" - besides the "would" structure, this is awkward. What saw anything? There's no proper subject. If you are referring to the University Line, perhaps The line would be better to replace "It". Suggest: The line expanded in April 2008, when three new stations opened between... etc. Done Remove spaces between indicators in the tables and their entries (no space before asterisk and dagger) and superscript the dagger to avoid crowding, since it's at cap height. Done The Airport Line color and the University Line color appear almost identical; can anything be done to correct this? Are these the official colors? If not, why use two reds and two greens? If so, perhaps it might be more helpful to make them more distinguishable, as WP:ACCESS isn't going to like the red and green combo anyway. At this point no "official" color has been assigned to the Airport Line. The red is being used as it will connect into the existing University Line which does use red as its official color, so it was defaulted as red. The colorbox could be removed altogether for the Airport Line at this time since there is not an official color, but it may look weird since all of the other lines in the list have a colorbox. I am fine with any sort of consensus that is reached regarding this issue. Since there is no official assignment per se, I think that it would be better to remove the colors for all incomplete or pending lines until a reliable source established them. If they do use red and green later, they may be subsumed into another line and that makes this easier, or if they are not, we can deal with it at that time. That is, after all, why we have talk pages. Cheers KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:38, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Works for me. I have removed the colorboxes for the proposed and UC stations and will add them as the do become official in the future. Thanks again or the insight!Patriarca12 (talk) 03:24, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Hope these comments help. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for taking the time to look and comment on this. It is appreciated! Patriarca12 (talk) 05:21, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Conditional Support pending resolution of Eubulides' comments on alt text. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:19, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 08:23, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Lead image caption doesn't need a full stop. Not quite sure what you mean by "full stop." Can you please elaborate? A full stop. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC) I can't believe I have never in my life heard a period called a full stop! Learn something new everyday! Patriarca12 (talk) 16:14, 17 January 2010 (UTC) It's more of a British English thing. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:26, 18 January 2010 (UTC) "designed to resemble the canopy" any reason why? Added reference to its historic nature in Downtown SLC. Not convinced the lines need to be in smaller font. For this I will have to get some help from more experienced editors familiar with the syntax of these types of templates. However, in this case I feel the slightly smaller font does work as all completed stations are on at least two lines making the table easier to follow horizontally across the table. However, I am agreeable to any consensus made about this. Initial sort (if by name) is incorrect as Central Pointe should come in front of Central Station. Corrected. Planned stations, sort per station, I'd expect 500 West before 1100 West. I could not get the syntax to properly work, therefore I made the column unsortable. I'm not even sure how Projected completion currently sorts... I also made this column unsortable since there is such a broad range of dates. This can be changed as more specific completion dates are established in the future. Ref 1 should use an en-dash, not a hyphen, in its title. Corrected. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks again for taking a look at this! Patriarca12 (talk) 03:24, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment. Alt text done; thanks. I was asked to look at the alt text. The alt text for the first image doesn't convey the gist of the map, namely that the routes form a rough T shape with the University line across the top, the Sandy/Salt Lake line on the left arm and going to the bottom, and the Murry/Midvale/University line on the right arm and going to the bottom, with the free fare zone on the left arm, etc. Please see WP:ALT#Maps for more guidance here. Two of the alt text entries contain details that can't be verified just from the image, and which need to be removed or moved to the caption as per WP:ALT#Proper names and WP:ALT#Verifiability; these are "Salt Lake City" and "Siemens Light Rail Vehicle". The phrase "large, white piece of public art" is pretty vague: it could describe a snowman, for example; see WP:ALT#Essence. The image File:UTA TRAX and FrontRunner at Night 1.JPG appears to be purely decorative, and I suggest marking it with "|link=|alt=" as per WP:ALT#Purely decorative images. Eubulides (talk) 05:55, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• • The alt texts have been changed to best fit the guidelines linked here. I hope they will be satisfactory! Patriarca12 (talk) 03:08, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
    • Thanks, that looks good. Wow, I didn't see the elephant until the alt text mentioned it: that's funny! Eubulides (talk) 03:51, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support - Everything looks great, nice job. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 19:51, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support - looks good—Chris!_c/t 03:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 16:03, 2 February 2010 [48].

---

List of National Treasures of Japan (shrines)

Nominator(s): bamse (talk) 11:32, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

This list of National Treasure shrine structures is modeled after the featured paintings‎ and sculptures lists. As a novelty there are extensive architectural notes explaining technical terms. I tried to implement comments from previous featured national treasure list candidacies. bamse (talk) 11:32, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

• there is one dead link

  Fixed.

• should there be the little box at the top of the article saying that the article contains Japanese characters?

  Don't know if it is required but I put it there just in case.

• all images have alt text, which is great

  agreed :-)

• the references seem all to be in the correct format
• Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 60cm, use 60 cm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 60 cm.

  Fixed two occurences (in a footnote). Hope those are all.

I'll keep it in my watch-list. Mephiston999 (talk) 12:44, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the comments. I addressed all of them. bamse (talk) 16:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

More comments

• The red link I think should go.

• The term Shinto should be used with care, because the existence of Shinto and the meaning of the term itself before the Meiji era are hotly disputed subjects. Many do not believe Shinto as an organized religion existed before the modern era, and think the word itself in the past meant something like "religion". The situation is described here. The term many prefer for Shinto before the modern era is "local religious beliefs". I would therefore replace the first sentence with "The practice of marking sacred areas began in Japan as early as the Yayoi period (from about 500 BC to 300 AD) originating from primal religious beliefs".

• The illustration has numbers but no legend. Would it be possible to add one?

Urashima Tarō (talk) 04:54, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I created Ōsaki Hachiman-gū, so the read link is gone; changed the first sentence as you suggested and added a legend to the image caption.bamse (talk) 12:53, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Support I am satisfied with Bamse's alterations made after I made some suggestions, and I think this is an excellent article. I was invited to comment, but since I am also one of the article's editors and I often collaborate with Bamse, I don't know if I can or should vote for the article's promotion to Featured List. If I can, I vote Support Urashima Tarō (talk) 23:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 09:55, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments (another staggering list, well done!) The list is huge, the lead is correspondingly large, but isn't there a main article where a lot of this could be discussed? Just a thought. Not sure what you mean. There are Shinto, Shinto shrine and Shinto architecture which discuss these issues. The lead is however focused on the national treasure shrines. To make sense of the list, I think it is essential to have some historical background. That's why I wrote a somewhat extended intro. You link "shrines" to "Shinto shrines" - I'd use the full title in this case. I am reluctant to do this because of the issue mentioned by Urashimataro above: the usage of the term "Shinto" for these early times is hotly debated. The Shinto shrine article discusses also old shrines, which might or might not be referred to as Shinto shrines. " taisha-zukuri[ex 1], shinmei-zukuri[ex 2] and sumiyoshi-zukuri[ex 3][3][5]" - comma should go before [ex 1] and there should be a full stop between zukuri and [ex 3]. Fixed. "and, indeed, today's " don't see a need for ", indeed," Removed. "stones[nb 2]," nb after comma please. Plenty of these in the table, please check. Fixed, also those in the table. Hope I caught all of them. "This list presents 37" then "In fact the number of structures presented is more than 37" reads a little odd to me. Indeed, there was "national treasure" missing. Now it reads: "This list presents 37 entries of national treasure shrine structures..." Have you linked "oratory" anywhere? Linked now. Shrines map covers the right-hand side of the right-hand table in my my browser (IE7). After 100 attempts my IE shows proper formatting. Hope yours does as well. What significance does bold have in the table? No meaning and therefore removed. There's a separate symbol for x (which I can't remember how to find)... Replaced x with ×. Done. Minor point but would prefer to see "Images" rather than "Pictures" as a heading. Done. "with richly colored " richly - POV. Removed two occurences of "richly" in the table. Consistency in use of full stops in the architecture notes please. Added full stops to make it consistent. Same for general notes (compare 10 with 11) Done. Ref 53 has a typo. Fixed. Ref 48 could use a space before the (. Fixed. Do refs 81 and 82 really have identical titles? No. Fixed. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:22, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the feedback. I started to fix some of it. Will continue later today.bamse (talk) 10:08, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Addressed all of the issues above. bamse (talk) 22:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

• Second image etc, bright blue rectangle - what's that about?

  The picture shows three national treasures: the fence (Tōzai Sukibei), the gate (karamon) and the building in the back. The blue rectangle is indicating which of the three is meant here. Unfortunately there is no better viewpoint to get a decent picture of the building in the back. The gate and fence could be isolated in a picture. I used the same picture in order to show how the structures are located relative to each other (the fence is surrounding the building and there is the gate in the fence).

  The blue rectangles need explanation, in my opinion. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:55, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

  Added: If the image shows more than one structure, the respective structure is indicated by a blue rectangle. to "Images" in the "Usage" section. bamse (talk) 22:42, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Support. I think this is a well-written and well sourced list. Ruslik_Zero 20:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Support by Nev1 (talk · contribs)

• " Over time the temporary structures evolved into permanent structures that were dedicated to the gods": slightly repetitious with "structures", could do with a little change.

• Reworded. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

• I'm not sure what the following means: "The honden is 2×2". Are we talking 2 by 2 metres (6 ft 7 in × 6 ft 7 in)? This applies to notes two, three, and four, and the remarks in the main table.

• This is explained in the "Usage" section under "Remarks": "m×n" denotes the length (m) and width (n) of the structure, each measured in ken. So a 2×2 structure is one which has three pillars on each side: one at each corner and one in-between these two.

• Sorry I missed that. I would suggest though that for the notes it be made clearer, as they come before the usage section Nev1 (talk) 23:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

• "Forked finials act as ornamentation" sounds a little bit clumsy, how about something like "They are decorated with forked finials"?

• Changed as suggested.

• "date to before 552 AD": surely "date from before 552 AD"? I'm genuinely not sure about which to use or whether one is incorrect, but I've seen "date from before xyz" more often than "date to before xyz".

  Changed: "to"->"from".

• Dates suffixed by BC or AD need a non-breaking space in between. It means that if there's a line break on some screens, you won't get a BC/AD marooned on its own.

  Done.

• " The concept of temples as a place of assembly was applied to shrines": I know what this is trying to say, but at the moment it sounds like shrines were made into temples. How about something along the lines of "Borrowing the idea from temples, shrines became places of assembly"?

  To me it does not sound as if shrines were made into temples since specifically: "concept...as a place of assembly" is mentioned.

  Ok, I'll leave this. I think the meaning is clear, although it could perhaps be better phrased. It's a minor issue though. Nev1 (talk) 23:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

• " At the end of the Heian period two-storied gates and grand colonnades, replacing torii and fences, were copied on a large scale from temple architecture": in this case does large scale mean making the gates and colonnades bigger (in which case the phrasing is fine), or that they were widely copied?

• Reword to clariy, (I hope!). Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

• "gongen-zukuri was introduced as a method of building shrines": the article linked indicates that gongen-zukuri is an architectural style, or a different kind of plan, rather than a new method of construction, which surely relates to what kind of materials were used and how they were put together?

  Indeed. Replaced "method"->"new plan'.

• "The main hall was joined with the oratory via a connecting structure known as ai-no-ma as is also found in the hachiman-zukuri style": is the second "as" meant to be "and"?

  Reworded. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

• It might be worth considering moving the last paragraph of the lead to the start, so the reader knows immediately about shrines as National Treasures and then goes on to read more about shrines in general, but this is not a deal breaker and I'm happy to leave this to the author's discretion.

  Moved it.

• Similar to my comment on the paintings list, it would be useful to know what National Treasure status does for a shrine; for example in the UK scheduled monuments are protected from unauthorised change.

  Added: As such they are eligible for government grants for repairs, maintenance and the installation of fire-prevention facilities and other disaster prevention systems. Owners are required to announce any changes to the National Treasures such as damage or loss and need to obtain a permit for transfer of ownership or intended repairs. and a reference.

• Might it be useful to have the tables in the statistics section sortable? The layout out for the first might make it impractical.

  The second table is small enough to be sorted by the reader (It is currently sorted by age.) Removing the rowspans in the first table, I could make it sortable. Unless you think it is essential, I'd prefer the present version.

  I made the small table sortable.bamse (talk) 08:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

  It's not at all essential to make the first sortable, and as you say it's short enough for the reader to be able to "sort" it mentally. Nev1 (talk) 23:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

There's a good explanation of the origin of shrines, the history is good although could do with a little copyediting, and the lead image is useful to get an idea of a typical layout, which can be difficult to explain well in prose. It's interesting to see that the shrines are more spread out than the paintings (presumably because you don't get shrine collectors) but from the discussion in the last FLC I presume there's little that could be said about the distribution without venturing into WP:OR. Otherwise, the descriptions seem detailed enough, and the main table looks good. I can't think of anything else to add. A nice article. Nev1 (talk) 18:01, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Replied to all of your comments, which were not done by Truthkeeper88 already. Please let me know if you require any further changes. (I cannot see any system in the geographic distribution, so I don't dare to discuss it.) bamse (talk) 22:36, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Apologies for taking so long, I've now switched to support. Well done for producing a fine list. Nev1 (talk) 23:47, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - Ref #81 is a dead link. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 20:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

  Fixed. bamse (talk) 22:39, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

  • • Support - It all looks in order. Afro (Its More Than a Feeling) ^{- Afkatk} 15:34, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 16:03, 2 February 2010 [49].

---

List of Texas Tech Red Raiders men's basketball seasons

Nominator(s): NThomas (talk) 16:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

After working and getting List of Texas Tech Red Raiders football seasons to FL I'm starting to understand what it takes to get to FL status. I couldn't find a FL basketball season list so I combined elements from the football season FLs and List of Akron Zips men's basketball seasons to make it in my opinion FL worthy. NThomas (talk) 16:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from NMajdan

Quick Comments Unfortunately, I see the number of red links in this article as being a big hurdle in passing FLC. Prior FLCs have shown that at least 75% of the links should not be red. What about changing the red links to text until those articles are created or those articles redirect to an article like Penn State Nittany Lions football under Joe Paterno (as an Independent) combining them by coach? NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) The purpose of redlinks is to encourage article creation. Delinking those redlinks or redirecting them to one article defeats the purpose of the redlink criterion (especially since these potential articles would definitely be notable). Dabomb87 (talk) 00:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC) Makes sense. Every championship season will have its own article soon but others like the 1989-90 season, Tech went 5-22 overall. That would be one of the last articles started so some like that would be red links for a long time to come. NThomas (talk) 03:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC) Here's the thing. Think of lists as directories. This is a list of TT basketball seasons, however, nearly all of the entries go nowhere. I know a lot of athletics articles will group individual season articles into more broad articles such as by decade (Texas Tech Red Raiders basketball, 2000-2009) or by coach (Texas Tech Red Raiders basketball under Bob Knight). I just don't see this passing FL with that amount of red links. I face the same problem with List of Oklahoma Sooners men's basketball seasons.—NMajdan•talk 18:13, 5 January 2010 (UTC) I'm pretty sure the Big 12 is not separated into divisions in basketball, just football. They aren't divided into divisions like football but for scheduling, B12 South teams play each other twice a season but only play B12 North teams once a year. I thought about adding something like that into the lead but this is about the entire history of the program. If it was just about Big 12 basketball then I'd think it would be a necessity. What do you think? NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) I've noticed this too but unfortunately we can't make the assumpution that there is a "division" unless a reliable third-party source confirms this. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC) What about adding a referenced footnote after Division in the lead? NThomas (talk) 03:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC) Sure. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC) Added reference from the Big 12's website. NThomas (talk) 23:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC) Texas Tech won two more consecutive conference championships the two following seasons. Seems redundant. I'm thinking this might work: The following two seasons, the Matadors won as many conference championships. I replaced Texas Tech with Matadors to flow into the next sentence about the moniker change from Matadors to Red Raiders. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• No need for the 2009-10 season row yet.

• Because the article isn't "List of completed Texas Tech Red Raiders men's basketball seasons", I feel as long as the parameters aren't constantly being changed after every time a game is played and having In Progress solves that problem instead of empty parameters. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• This is actually fairly consistently applied across sports season FLs that play more often than once a week (the NFL, with one game a week, usually doesn't create a problem, but basketball and baseball teams, which play more often, tend to be kept at a stable point). KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

• As KV said, leaving the current season's row off is general practice. Go through the current FLs that would have a similar row and you will see that they do not. It needs to be removed. Good job on the creation of the season articles.—NMajdan•talk 17:30, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

• I really believe the current season belongs on the list. When I read KV5's comment, I took that as it was common on non-football FL season lists. I'm not wanting to get into WP:WAX but, three of the four NBA FLs have the current season in the table. Since this will be the first NCAA basketball seasons list, we're breaking new ground here and the most similar FLs are the NBA FLs. The current season is still a season right? If the current season is not to be included on this list then I propose all season lists be moved to List of completed <team name and sport> seasons. Thanks about creating the seasons. That was really the hardest part but, only one more section to go! NThomas (talk) 18:49, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

• Having the current season in the list removes a component of stability, inviting vandalism, edit wars, edit conflicts, and other unpleasant things. I know that the general practice for baseball lists, since they play pretty much every day is to either wait until the season is completed, as per my current practice at the List of Philadelphia Phillies seasons, or use stable points in the season for updates, meaning ends of months (not preferred) or the All-Star Break. I would recommend applying the same standard here. But that's just me. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 19:52, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

• Having the all of the parameters covered by In progress would solve any problems for constant updates and though. I even included an editors tag about not updating the stats until the season was completed.

• I suppose we can probably live with that for now, though I would consider leaving the list at a stable point once the end of the current season is reached. That's generally the progression that I follow with lists of this type that are nominated in-season. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

• I feel this individual comment is finished right? Or is there still opposition to the In progress column for the current season? After all, it is stable and will be until the end of the season when the two final polls are released. NThomas (talk) 06:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• I assumed that it was resolved per my last comment, but didn't mark it because it's not mine originally. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

• I figured it was but just wanted to make sure. I left a message on NMajdan's talk page to close this comment if everyone, including Nmajdan, was satisfied with the outcome. NThomas (talk) 07:54, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• I still don't agree with it being there, but it is not a big enough issue to keep me from Supporting.—NMajdan•talk 15:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

—NMajdan•talk 16:58, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks for a quick response and comments. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 Not a big fan of the redlinks either. I suppose we do have to consider WP:SAL, which says "Each entry on a list should have its own non-redirect article in English Wikipedia, but this is not required if the entry is verifiably a member of the listed group, and it is reasonable to expect an article could be forthcoming in the future." I would be more comfortable passing this list if, during the course of this FLC, some of those redlinks turn blue and it's obvious that progress is being made. See my reply to Nmajdan's same comment in his first sentence. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) It's a thought, though stand-alone lists are supposed to bring together related articles, and all of those redlinks should necessarily become articles at some point. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC) "the most held by a Border Conference member." - links to a football article? That shouldn't be in there. Excuse: lack of sleep. It's been removed. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) "the Red Raiders had not receive a bid" - should be did not receive Corrected. Thanks. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) "received bids five postseason bids six years to four NCAA tournaments" - wha? It should have been received five postseason bids in six years to four NCAA tournaments. I fixed it but that still doesn't sound great. Any ideas? NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) How about During Knight's six-year tenure, Texas Tech received five postseason bids, participating in four NCAA tournaments and one National Invitation Tournament (NIT)"? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC) Much better! Thanks. That sounds really good. NThomas (talk) 03:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC) "then ever previously" - then should be than, but "than ever previously" is really bad grammar. Consider a re-word. Reworked the entire sentence to The Red Raiders won the third place playoff in the 2003 NIT Tournament, the farthest a Red Raiders men's basketball team has advanced in postseason play. I think that sounds much better. What do you think? NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Great! KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:10, 5 January 2010 (UTC) It's really difficult to distinguish what on earth the "Conference Tournament Champions" designator is supposed to be. I would suggest using an asterisk, since none is used in this article. I'd rather not change it but if that becomes the difference in yay or nay, for support, I'll change it. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) NIT and NAIA are used without explicit definition. In the lead, i added a the NIT abbreviation to National Invitation Tournament and National Collegiate Athletic Association's NCAA abbreviation is in the first sentence. Both are abbreviated in parenthesis the first time both organizations are mentioned. I have a feeling that's not going to cut it thought, right? NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC) NIT and NCAA are just fine being abbreviated in the lead; it's just NAIA that I'm concerned about now. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:09, 5 January 2010 (UTC) I added this to the second paragraph Texas Tech received their first postseason bid in 1942 to the National Association of Intercollegiate Basketball (NAIB) tournament. The NAIA was called the NAIB before 1950 so the existing abbreviations were changed also. NThomas (talk) 03:31, 5 January 2010 (UTC) Hope these comments help. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:23, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the comments. All the help I can get is appreciated. NThomas (talk) 23:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Support from KV5 (Talk • Phils) 15:16, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments I'm no expert but the ALT text is a little weak. You haven't described that they're seated, that there are folks in the background or what the main guys are wearing. This is what's there now: A middle-aged man is turned talking to a man in his thirties who holds a pen and paper in his hands. How about this instead? In the background, two men are seated in front of a crowd, one with a headset, the other with a fist in front of his mouth, _________________. In the foreground, two men are seated, a middle-aged man who is turned talking to a man in his thirties who holds a pen and paper in his hands. I just don't know what to put in the blank spot for the first sentence maybe: ...looking off into the distance.? NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) "were known as the "Matadors"" no reference. Corrected. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Nor the replacement of the name. Corrected. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) "where it experienced similar success as it had in the" very awkward English. How about replacing it with they? NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) "began an annual conference tournament known as the SWC Classic" no reference. Added ref & corrected tournament name. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) "until the conference ceased operations in 1996 " no reference. Added ref. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Big 12 Conference is overlinked. Corrected. Thanks. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Notes are unreferenced. Corrected. Thanks again. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) You have refs for the results in the 70s, 90s and 00s. What about all the other decades in this table? Those are only for the NIT tournaments. They really don't even need to be there as the first reference encompasses all the team's postseason results. I just added it as an additional reference. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) The months and days need leading zeros in the accessdate fields. Corrected. Thanks. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) The Rambling Man (talk) 18:12, 7 January 2010 (UTC) There are four people in the image, the caption says (left) and (right) - not what you mean.. I originally played around with cropping the picture but it didn't look as good. The only other thing I can think of is "Center right" and "far right." Any suggestions? NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Sounds fine. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC) Fixed! NThomas (talk) 23:48, 13 January 2010 (UTC) "received their first postseason bid" what does this mean? do you mean they made it to postseason? Yes. It's a bid because not every team that is given a bid accepts it. There's a few articles here about automatic bid and the NCAA tournament's selection process involving bids but since the bid in question is about the NAIB bid and not the NCAA, a link to that article isn't appropriate. NThomas (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Just not that clear to a non-expert.... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:40, 13 January 2010 (UTC) I added bid to help clarify. I'm by no means an expert, just a jargon expert. NThomas (talk) 23:48, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:15, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments – "competes in the National Collegiate Athletic Association Division I". Should be "Association's", I believe. Good catch. Fixed. NThomas (talk) 07:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC) "Texas Tech won two more consecutive conference championships the two following seasons." Feels like there is redundant phrasing here, but I'm having a tough time fingering it. Perhaps "more" should be dropped? I trimmed and combined two of the sentences to get the same information across in a more efficient style. NThomas (talk) 07:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC) "the Southwest Conference held began...". One of the last two words needs to go. Deleted held. NThomas (talk) 07:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Comma needed after "the Red Raiders did not receive a bid to postseason play until 2002". Also, Coach should be de-capitalized. Thanks. I would have never realized the comma belonged there. NThomas (talk) 07:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Reference 5 should have the publisher in italics, since it is a printed work. Corrected. Thanks. NThomas (talk) 07:39, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Table: In the Preseason / Postseason heading, de-capitalize Postseason since it isn't a proper noun. Also, I'm pretty sure it says somewhere in the MoS to avoid using slashes in text. Maybe try a dash of some kind instead. Found it: MOS:SLASH. Replaced it with: and. In most seasons list FLs, the postseason column shows the team's actual results in playoff or bowl games and series. Why shouldn't a prospective college basketball seasons FL do the same? I'd at least expect to see who Texas Tech lost to or beat in the final round of each event. This will take some work, but it strikes me as worth doing. There has got to be a better way then what you're talking about. The NBA FLs list every game in the playoffs but with college teams, there's preseason, postseason and conference tournaments.

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:20, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

:I really think a link to the season and the tournament is enough and doesn't overwhelm the rest of the list. I know the other season by season lists include the results to the playoffs, but there's a potential for three tournaments in every season and it overwhelms the rest of the information. Including only the last game won't solve the problem either, it just adds information more appropriate for the individual season and tournament articles when the name of the tournament and wikilinked result convey the the information just as well. I propose this list and future college basketball FLs only include the final result similar to how playoffs are handled in NCAA football (see:List of Appalachian State Mountaineers football seasons). NThomas (talk) 07:53, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:32, 14 January 2010 (UTC) In the list you linked to, the bowl games and championship-winning playoff games are spelled out, but the regular playoff appearances aren't. Are you saying that you would show the championship game result if Texas Tech ever wins an NCAA or NIT title, or is that style the one you want to use throughout regardless? I'd be interested to see if anyone has further comment on this. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:15, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Good point. In my opinion, I would just continue the same style used in the conference tournament. Look at the 1995–96 season's conference tournament, Texas Tech made it to the finals and won against the Texas Longhorns so it is just labeled as "Champions." If Tech were to win a NIT, NCAA, etc. tournament, I would have it labeled with "NCAA Champion^" in the Preseason and postseason category and the season would be colored with a new symbol. NThomas (talk) 22:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC) Also, what about adding a separate section with subsections with the results with conference, preseason and postseason results similar to the playoff results in the North Carolina seasons list? NThomas (talk) 00:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC) That's a great idea. My only concern is that full conference tournament results, in addition to the others, could make the page overly long as you fear, but it's hard to say without seeing the size of a table. If it becomes too much for one page, you could always split the results into their own list. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC) I started the conference list offline and "show previewed" it... It doesn't look good either. I estimated the conference results alone are the same size of as the season list. The only other thing I could think of is creating conference championship articles (my preferred choice) or, according to naming conventions, what would a separate list of tournament results be titled? List of Texas Tech Red Raiders men's basketball tournament results? NThomas (talk) 03:24, 22 January 2010 (UTC) Yeah, I was going to tell you to test it and see how it worked. With that in mind, I think the title you gave is fine. At the very least, I can't think of a better one at the moment. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:26, 22 January 2010 (UTC) Anything else you can think of for this list? I had no idea I was breaking new ground here with this one. I'm kinda hoping things here in the FLC will wrap up soon and then I'll tackle the tournament results list. NThomas (talk) 23:31, 22 January 2010 (UTC) Also, when I get around to the tournament results list, I was thinking this version of the Template:Details: Further information on tournament results: List of Texas Tech Red Raiders men's basketball tournament results NThomas (talk) 20:35, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Support – Seems to meet FL standards now. I'm not that fussed about the tournament results, knowing now how many of them there are; in fact, I'll be interested to see what that list is like. While I'm here, can the table be capped? I haven't been able to do it properly. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:20, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

• Capped? You mean like a totals at the end of the list? I'm confused. NThomas (talk) 03:58, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

• I think he was referring to this FLC page (the table doesn't fit in the {{hidden/FC}} template properly); I moved it to the talk page of this FLC. Dabomb87 (talk) 05:23, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Links, contributors, alt text, and dab links all check out fine. Lead Texas Tech has played its home games at United Spirit Arena in Lubbock, Texas since its opened in 1999 -- you mean since it opened in 1999.? or since its opening in 1999.? Fixed. Good catch! NThomas (talk) 20:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC) The team's first season of conference play, Texas Tech went undefeated, winning the first of three consecutive Border Conference championships. -- In my opinion, it would sound better as in the team's first season... Fixed. Sounds better now. NThomas (talk) 20:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Before withdrawing from the Border Conference in 1956, the Red Raiders won five conference championships and one co-championship. -- what is a co-championship? Its a shared title. Two teams have the same results regardless of head-to-head match ups. I had the same question come up during the last list I had in FLC. The university remained in the SWC until the conference ceased operations in 1996 when the Red Raiders ended the 1995–96 season ranked #8 in both the AP (Associated Press) Poll and Coaches' Poll. - comma after 1996 Fixed. Thanks. NThomas (talk) 20:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC) List The only thing I see that catches my eye is why do some of the columns have no columns, and later on they have columns with dashes. Does this mean that the award of whatever did not exist until the dashes columns? That's exactly right. I feel that is the best way to convey the message that there was no possible entry for that category where the dash means it was possible but not achieved. Can you note that somewhere? I just feel the reader should know this beforehand.--Truco 503 03:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC) I've added notes in the header of the table explaining the conference wins, losses, & final standings, and the dates the polls began being published. NThomas (talk) 20:04, 31 January 2010 (UTC) References I don't know if its possible for you to have the link of the university appear in all the refs, such as in ref # 2? In addition to the link to the Big 12 in ref #1? Done. The refs all have been wikilinked. NThomas (talk) 20:01, 30 January 2010 (UTC) --Truco 503 03:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- Previous issues resolved; now meets WP:WIAFL.Truco ₅₀₃ 01:36, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Dabomb87 16:03, 2 February 2010 [50].

---

List of Copenhagen Metro stations

Nominator(s): Arsenikk ^(talk) 12:34, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

This list of the stations of the Copenhagen Metro fits into a growing number of metro station lists. I feel the article now meets the FL criteria, but if there are any comments or feedback, I am more than happy to look into it and amend the article as needed. Arsenikk ^(talk) 12:34, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

• Comment: You probably need to change the Line column from using images to using text. Accessibility and all that. Also, at least in the future stations table, you list two stations as being termini... which they are, but you don't specify for which line. --Golbez (talk) 11:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the feedback. Concerning the termini, it says in the last sentence of the first paragraph: "Line M3 will operate the full circle, while M4 will only operate the eastern half." This should imply that M3 does not have any termini, and that any termini of the City Circle Line would belong to M4. In my opinion this is sufficient, especially since there is a map to the right that shows the circle. I am also a little unsure how to incorporate the more detailed information and where you want it. Concerning the icons, they will either show up as an image or they will show up with the alt-text (M1, M2, M3 and M4). Arsenikk ^(talk) 10:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Comment Images used in Line column do not need alt text per this guideline because they are purely decorative; also, what does S in the first table stands for? I assume that is for the S-train.—Chris!_c/t 02:29, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The info in the Line column is not otherwise available, so those images' alt text ("M1", "M2") should be fine as-is; without the alt text, the visually impaired reader of a table row won't know the row's line. Eubulides (talk) 03:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. The 'S' was just a stray letter that must have been put in by mistake—it is now removed. The icons are not purely decorative, so they still need alt texts. Arsenikk ^(talk) 10:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I thought they are purely decorative.—Chris!_c/t 20:30, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

• Support —Chris!_c/t 22:56, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support. I have found no problems, except that you may want to move 'min' to the caption of the fifth column of the first table. Ruslik_Zero 15:08, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the support. I have removed 'min' from the list and added a two-word specification of the time scale in the key. Arsenikk ^(talk) 19:45, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 19:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments Whoa, first thought was you're "underlinking"! I'd say you could legitimately link Denmark here....! "Each line takes 23 minutes to travel." odd fact, but okay. Can you just make it clear you mean it takes 23 minutes from one end of M1/M2 to the other end of M1/M2? Christianhavn or Christianshavn? " Christianshavn offers transfer between the two metro lines" - What do the big circles on the map mean then? It's not clear, and it's not on the key... Why would 1,3 sort before 1,2 in your table (under Zone)? Proposed map caption should state that it is the "proposed" map - who knows, it may never happen.. "All the stations on lines M3 and M4 will be underground" this is a poor caption for an image of a bunch of escalators. The Rambling Man (talk) 23:15, 2 January 2010 (UTC) Done. However, to comments: I haven't even noticed the big circles before, but they seem to mean transfer stations either to other lines or to the S-train, regional trains or the airport. I'll have to take a look at modifying the map later if a key is to be added for it. The official maps do not operate with any indication of line change stations, simply relying on the intuition that transfer is available at the nearest intersecting station. As for the zoning sort, it seems that they sort as an equal part of 1 (if you for instance sort first by travel time and then by zone, (1, 2) will appear before (1, 3). I've tried a number of tricks, but cannot manage to get them to sort between 1 and 2. Arsenikk (talk) 22:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC) I have now modified the map so the transfer station circle is in the legend. As I am writing this, the image seems to not have updated on Wikipedia, although it is showing fine on Commons. Arsenikk (talk) 08:49, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

• Check the toolbox; there is one dead link (soft 404). Dabomb87 (talk) 22:27, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Amazing how linkrot has reached the level that links become dead during the FL review. I took the opportunity to instead instate the 2009 ridership figures. Arsenikk ^(talk) 08:49, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

• Is there any way the text on the map of future stations can be enlarged? At the moment, it is useful only for the shape of the routes, as the text in illegible from the article. Mm40 (talk) 12:54, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I've tried playing around with the map, but this seems to be rather difficult. Although possible, the whole map is scaled to the current dimensions. Making the text by itself larger will make the map look rather ugly in full size. Instead, I can force the image size to 400px, which should make the text readable (since the map is the same width as the current map at the top). Arsenikk ^(talk) 17:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from KV5

Comments from KV5 "south-east" - southeast, remove hyphen "the branch to the airport completed M2 in 2007" - this reads awkwardly to me. Did you mean to say the M2 branch to the airport completed in 2007? "The two lines are 21 kilometers (13 mi) long" - does this mean that the two lines combined are that length, or that each line is that length? The wording is ambiguous at the moment. "Since 2007, there have been 22 stations" - this sounds a bit awkward to me as well. Not really sure what to suggest, though. Link "Ørestad" in lead. "The system is owned by Metroselskabet, that is owned by the municipalities of Copenhagen and Frederiksberg, and the Government of Denmark." - this is a run-on sentence, and I'm not sure what it's trying to say. Does it mean that "Metroselskabet" is owned by the municipalities and the government, or that the system proper is owned by the municipalities and the government? Once I know, I can suggest better wording. Suggest superscripting the indicators in the table (pound sign and dagger) since they are at cap height. Blank cells in "Transfer" column should have centered em-dashes to show that they are intentionally left blank. Overall, this list is well-constructed, well-referenced, and aesthetically pleasing. I would gladly support following the resolution of the above comments. Cheers! KV5 (Talk • Phils) 14:12, 28 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the feedback. I have fixed everything, and come up with suggestions for the points were the prose was awkward. To answer your questions: The lines are 21 km long combined (not each). Metroselskabet is owned by the municipalities/government. I converted the no. of stations sentence to "The system has 22 stations, of which 9 are underground and 12 are elevated." Arsenikk (talk) 21:46, 28 January 2010 (UTC) All of the changes look great; I just have one more question: what exactly is the Metroselskabet? KV5 (Talk • Phils) 00:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Metroselskabet is a limited company which owns the metro (but doesn't operate it, that is subcontracted). Translated, the name means "The Metro Company". Arsenikk (talk) 11:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC) OK, good to know. Then I suggest a minor change to The system is owned by Metroselskabet, a company owned jointly by the municipalities of Copenhagen and Frederiksberg, and the government of Denmark. - this makes clear that the Metroselskabet is a company for those who don't know and also de-capitalizes "government", which isn't a proper noun in this case. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 12:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC) Done. Arsenikk (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

• Gladly add my support to this nomination. Great work! KV5 (Talk • Phils) 13:41, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Truco

Comments from Truco (talk · contribs) General Alt text, contributors, dab links, and external links all check out fine. Lead The City Circle Line will have 17 stations, of which 2 are existing stations that will become transfer stations, Christianshavn and Kongens Nytorv. -- the ending reads awkwardly, it may just be me but why not state it as 'which 2 (names of cities) are existing stations..' or 'become transfer stations: name of cities.' or 'of which 2, name of cities, are existing...' The new lines will also have a stop at Copenhagen Central Station (København H). -- I had to find out by going to the article that this station is the largest in Denmark, but it would help the reader to state that. The metro and its 34 trains are operated by the private company Metro Service. -- I'm confused, Metro Service is a different company correct? I would add a note about the zones and what they are, because they just randomly appear in the table and the reader knows nothing about them. Key I would add a {{-}} template at the end of this section because on my browser the image runs off to the list section. Table Would it look better with the transfer column being centered? Not just the dashes? (same w/ future stations)--Truco 503 04:13, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the feedback. Nice to get some feedback from someone who isn't too indoctrinated in rail transport and has some tricky questions. I have changed the 17 stations... sentence to The City Circle Line will have 17 stations, with transfer to between the current and new lines at Christianshavn and Kongens Nytorv. I added ..., the largest train station in Denmark. Metroselskabet (a municipal/government-owned company) owns the track and plans the expansions; Metro Service (a private company) runs the trains. This is a consequence of the Danish love of New Public Management, not necessarily logic. It is fairly common way of doing things in Europe. An elaboration about this is covered in the Copenhagen Metro article, which I would suppose the reader would look at if they wanted to know more about the system than simply the stations. Zone info added. The image runs onwards to the list section on my browser too, and I honestly don't see the problem with that. Adding {{-}} just makes a whole lot of unnecessary white space under key. Is there somewhere further down this is causing other problems? With the other columns left-aligned, I would say that center-aligning the transfer columns will make the article look messier. I will admit that the current solution looks a bit bad too. Arsenikk (talk) 15:39, 30 January 2010 (UTC) How about centering the text of the entire table? Btw, one of the rows is missing a dash. For the image problem, why not just replace the image with one of the ones that appear later and put the one that is there now where the new one was located?--Truco 503 18:15, 30 January 2010 (UTC) Moved around some of the images and added a dash. As for the alignment, I find center-aligned table a lot more difficult to read; this is mostly because we are accustomed to reading from left to right with a right-aligned border, and the center-alignment also increases the complexity of the text layout, increasing the strain on reading. Center-aligned lists also appear messy. Arsenikk (talk) 18:30, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support -- All issues fixed, the center aligning is a minor bug but its okay. Meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco ₅₀₃ 03:56, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.