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June 26

Making mocking melodies over folk songs

Is this possible to make a mocking/insulting melodies over O Christmas tree. This version I heard is Jingle bells batman smells is very popular, and Joy to the world, the barneys dead is quite common[1] i tried to find, but WP just eventually erased it. Is this possible there are insulting lyrics for O Christmas tree and Little brown jug. I remember I had a insulting lyrics for O Christmas tree, I can't really remember it straight right now, I have tried to come up one for little brown jug. Is there a possible insulting lyrics for Yankee doodle?--69.233.254.115 (talk) 04:02, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be asking about two things: (a) a mocking melody that fits the lyrics of "O Christmas Tree', and (b) a set of mocking lyrics that fit the melody of the same song. Correct? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 04:38, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that is what I want to know. Also little brown jug and yankee doodle.--69.233.254.115 (talk) 04:49, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

"Little Brown Jug"? That seems kind of obscure. Not sure how you would parody this:[2] Ray Stevens parodied "In the Mood", though. As for "Yankee Doodle", it's almost a parody of itself, actually. I wonder if you would consider the words to the "Roger Ramjet" theme song a parody, or just a "borrowing"?[3] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:22, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

my parody means rude lyrics, when you sing songs like O Christmas Tree or Yankee Doodle, your purpose to retaliate somebody you may not necessarily like. Is there possible insulting rude lyrics for Little Brown jug, O Christmas Tree, Yankee Doodle, if you do this at school you may get in a big trouble.--69.233.254.115 (talk) 06:24, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I graduated from elementary school a l-o-n-g time ago. You might like these lyrics from the shivaree of "Paint Your Wagon". It has do with a gold miner, Ben Rumpson, who buys a wife from a Mormon who's passing through: "Mr. Rumpson went to town / Ridin' on a pony / Bought a wife and brought her home / And called it matrimony / Mr. Rumpson bought a bride / Out in Californy / He'd a-saved a lot of money / Stayin' drunk and horny." A little too obscure for your purposes, maybe. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:03, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

As I recall "O Christmas Tree" is the tune to the Red Flag, which has been endlessly parodied. Schoolchildren, since time immemorial, have been writing their own lyrics to tunes, and no doubt you will also have written your own. --TammyMoet (talk) 11:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

The song you meant to link is at The Red Flag. The questioner may also be interested in filk music or "Weird Al" Yankovic. Rmhermen (talk) 14:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Another well known Christmas carol parody is; "Hark the herald angels sing / Beecham's Pills are just the thing! / They are gentle, meek and mild, / Two for a woman, one for a child...". I seem to recall that this has been sung in the British House of Commons, but I can't remember why or by whom. "O Christmas tree" is almost unknown as a carol in the UK, possibly because of the tune's Socialist connection. Alansplodge (talk) 17:10, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Majority ancestry by county:light blue is German, light purple is Englsh

Wouldn't that just be because it's a German song? Germans outnumber English in the US, and my father knows the German words but not the English to O Tannenbaum. μηδείς (talk) 23:44, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Does "English" here mean English citizens living in the US, or people who recently emigrated from England to the US? As far as I know, the English language is the mother tongue of the vast majority of US citizens, so I find it very hard to believe people of German descent would outnumber people of English descent, unless that descent is very recent. But I'm not an expert here, I've never lived outside Finland, only visited there. JIP | Talk 17:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, German is the largest self-reported ancestry in the U.S. But it is known that English is underreported or reported as American because it is not recent. Rmhermen (talk) 03:49, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Socialist connection? I don't think so. We were singing it (in English) in our grade school days, in the USA, during the Red Scare. It also happens to be the same tune as the state song of Maryland. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:49, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Socialist connection in Britain. I agree with Alan: it's closely associated with The Red Flag and hardly ever included in carol concerts, unlike Silent Night, a German carol. Itsmejudith (talk) 07:49, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

That's right. Every year in the UK, the Labour Party Annual Conference ends with the assembled throng (including the Prime Minister if they're in office) standing up and singing "Then raise the scarlet standard high. / Within its shade we'll live and die, / Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, / We'll keep the red flag flying here." [4] As Judith says, the popularity of Silent Night proves that it's not an anti-German thing, especially as Stille Nacht was said (so the legend goes) to have been first heard by Britons across no-man's land during the Christmas truce of 1914. Hayden's Emperor's Hymn (aka Deutschland Über Alles) is a popular hymn tune in the Church of England, although I recall that eyebrows were raised when it was played at a service at Westminster Abbey to mark the Queen's silver wedding. Alansplodge (talk) 00:19, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Interesting; I had no idea that tune ever had a left-wing connection of any kind. In the Scouts we used to sing these lyrics to the O Tannenbaum melody:

Swiftly fades the light of day

As our campfire fades away

Silently each Scout should ask

"Have I done my daily task?

"Have I kept my honor bright?

"Can I guiltless face the night?

"Oh have I done, and have I dared

"Everything to be prepared?"

I will now not mention Tom Lehrer. --Trovatore (talk) 22:56, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Christmas songs have been parodied by everyone, including Stan Freberg, Allan Sherman, Tom Lehrer, Al Yankovic, and many others on Dr. Demento's playlist. "The Twelve Days of Christmas" might be the one most-parodied, since it's so easy. However, I don't recall much being done to "O Tannenbaum". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:17, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

While shepherds washed their socks by night / All seated 'round the tub / A bar of Sunlight soap came down / And they began to scrub - is mentioned in the talk section of the carol, but not the main page. --TrogWoolley (talk) 19:39, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

For Little Brown Jug (song) I remember that one.

   The rose is red, my nose is too,
   The violet's blue and so are you;
   And yet, I guess, before I stop,
   We'd better take another drop.  

i have tried to make up one version for myself using that template expect I revised some version to make it more intense. I think I have tried to make up a parody for O Christmas Tree, "She went on the 605, and got lost in El Monte, and the signs are green, she is sick and green, (I forgot the rest). And for Deck the halls, the common lyric is deck the halls with poison ivy fallala....--69.233.254.115 (talk) 22:23, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

"My roses are blue, my violets are black, I work at a florists', and I'm getting the sack". KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:58, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and don't forget Pogo's "Deck the halls with Boston Charlie, Walla Walla Wash and Kalamazoo". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:51, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

• In response to JIP, yes, more Americans are of German than English descent. According to a chart at Race and ethnicity in the United States, 42.8 percent of Americans claim some German ancestry, 30.5% claim Irish, 24.9% claim African, 24.5% claim English, 20.2% claim "American" (meaning white of unknown nationality) 18.4% Mexican, followed by Italian, Polish, French, American Indian, Scotch, Dutch, and so on. Those claiming "American" descent almost uniformly live in Appalachia and are likely of mostly mixed British and some Indian descent. Note that outside rural New England only Utah is majority English, this because the Mormons were largely English and settled Utah before the great waves of Irish and continental settlers after the Civil War. μηδείς (talk) 01:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

"Questionable insertion" in CVR transcripts

I have noticed that on CVR transcripts released by the NTSB, words with parentheses () are labeled "questionable insertion[s]." My interpretation of this symbol is that the words are not entirely unintelligible (otherwise they would have been labeled with *, which means unintelligible word), but that the words in the parentheses are only guesses since it is not possible to determine with 100% certainty (probably due to less than perfect audio quality) what was really being said at those moments. Is my understanding of this correct? 24.47.141.254 (talk) 05:16, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Links added for clarification Rojomoke (talk) 05:37, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Gluten Allergies

What does it happen when a person who is gluten allergic eats something that contains it? Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 14:27, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Our article on gluten sensitivity covers that: the most common symptoms are bloating, abdominal discomfort or pain, constipation or diarrhea. Looie496 (talk) 14:36, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 14:39, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Another one about this. Can one knows if a new born child is gluten allergic or just time will tell? Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 14:46, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

This happens to be an interest of mine but as we don't give medical advice I will only provided the the basics. A neonate's natural food is mothers milk until it starts to be weaned. A gluten intolerant child can then produce pale, foul-smelling stools, wind, bloating and poor growth. If a gluten free diet resolves these symptoms, only for them to return when cereals are reintroduced (the challenge, re-challenge protocol) then they are likely to be gluten intolerant.--Aspro (talk) 15:09, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Aspro thank you! :). I was not asking for medical advice, just basic stuffs. That helped a lot. I am writing a story and I needed that information. (sorry the ignorance, but mothers milk contains gluten?) Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 15:17, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Mothers milk does not contain gluten. Its due to some reason like, the large Dalton size of the protein molecule wont pass into to the mammary gland - but don’t quote my on that (and why other quacks clinicians still use Dalton's as a unit of mass - don't ask me that either). If you are a professional writer that can claim back the cost of all research material, then consider getting hold of a book by a prominent UK researcher and scientist that specialises in this area -[5] The book only has a little bit about gluten but he is an authority on this subject.---Aspro (talk)

If you're writing about this, one thing you should be aware of is that "gluten allergy" is currently a sort of fad, and there are lots of people who claim to have it who probably don't. I'm kind of surprised that our article doesn't have any discussion of that phenomenon. Looie496 (talk) 16:10, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

What's your source for that? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

My main source is seeing numerous people claim to be gluten-sensitive without having any solid evidence, but see for example http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/gluten-free-diet_b_907027.html; there are many more. Looie496 (talk) 16:44, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Excellent writeup. That doctor should write our article! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:14, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I am not a pro writer and I cannot afford buying such book. I was looking for an allergy for a baby and I found gluten's allergy interesting. Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 16:39, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey, guys! can you point out another not common allergy for my character? Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 17:18, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

List of allergens has no information on how common the various allergies are, but it seems like a good starting point for you to explore allergies. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 18:57, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much nice IP address (I dont know your name)! :) Ms.Bono^(zootalk)☆ 19:10, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

reference links usually deleted

I read an article and link a site grinpix.com that was an adequate reference to the article but the link was deleted, just want to why — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.206.11.40 (talk) 21:49, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

It's hard to imagine how that site could be a useful reference for anything. What article are you referring to? Looie496 (talk) 22:11, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

We have a set of guidelines on what constitutes a valid reference for an article - see WP:RS - it's hard to imagine a site with just a bunch of lame "joke" photographs being a valid reference under those rules. SteveBaker (talk) 03:48, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Except maybe for an article focusing on those kinds of jokes. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:06, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

June 27

Low-cost carrier members of airline alliances

I was just wondering, among the major airline alliances (Star Alliance, SkyTeam and Oneworld), do they currently have members which are low-cost airlines? Air Berlin doesn't count, as it's not a low-cost carrier anymore. I'm aware that most low-cost carriers don't want to join airline alliances for various reasons (indeed, airline alliances and the concept itself are mainly targeted towards full-service/legacy carriers), but are there low-cost carriers that nevertheless are members of an alliance? I could check each alliance's list of members, but that would be a little tedious. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:42, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Where is this place?

[[6]] work-safe, Nescafe ad. What city is it? OsmanRF34 (talk) 18:43, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

I am going to make a wild guess it is Johannesburg. The language is either Dutch or Afrikaans. Parts of the cityscape are obviously cgi-ed. μηδείς (talk) 01:44, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Definitely not Jo'burg and not Afrikaans (which I am fluent in) so I'm guessing it's Dutch. It does not look like any city in South Africa that I know. That river with the bridge suggests somewhere in Europe to me. 196.214.78.114 (talk) 07:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps at 0:01 left the Montevideo (Rotterdam). Perhaps the intention is to show how the morning coffee transforms Rotterdam (the rest is not exactly Rotterdam). --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 07:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

How much is this Kenneth Cole watch worth?

My mom got this watch for free from a friend in Hollywood who apparently gets free gifts from celebrities due to his profession. Here's a gallery of photos. I know nothing else about it. Any experts around here? How much do you think it's worth? I tried making a post on reddit's r/Watches but they're really rude and a bot removed it (?). Thanks Wikipedia reference desk for always being better than any subreddit. NIRVANA2764 (talk) 18:44, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Try to find an equivalent clock in a web-shop. Amazon, for example, has them, but the most expensive is not much more than $200. OsmanRF34 (talk) 18:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

June 28

History of Military Rank Insigna

The history behind in Military Rank Insigna, silver bars are senior to gold? Example 2nd Lt b ars are gold and 1st Lt are silver. This is throughout officer rank insigna in US Military. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.166.82.203 (talk) 11:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Thare is a referenced history of the development of US military insignia at United_States_Army_officer_rank_insignia and a recognition of the gold/silver anomaly here. Essentially it appears to have arisen out of a series of decisions based on cost. - Karenjc 12:07, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if the "gold" insignia were actually brass and therefore cheaper than silver ones? Probably no relationship, but in the UK fire service before WWII, firemen had brass helmets, while fire officers were distinguished by silver plated ones.[7] The distinction continues today with yellow helmets for the rank-and-file and white ones for officers.[8] Alansplodge (talk) 23:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

• As Kerenjc noted, it is based on cost. Other organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America borrowed this tradition. There are any number of alternative explanations that amount to urban legends. --  Gadget850 ^talk 01:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

"Use of Silver and Gold Officer Insignia of Rank". The Institute of Heraldry. United States Army. Archived from the original on September 9, 2006.

Military Support Vehicles

I was stationed at Fort Richardson (US Army) 127nd INF BDE, D-40th Armor as a tank mechanic 1966 - 1969 and am looking for information on two tracked vehicles I was assingned to. One was an M-4 and the other was an M-578. I have been on line trying to find info but nothing comes up that matches what I worked with. I have pictures of each vehicle can't figure out how to attache them to this question. 206.174.77.9 (talk) 17:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

The best way to attach images is to upload them to an image hosting website and then put the link here. Here is one such website. --Viennese Waltz 17:47, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

M578 Light Recovery Vehicle, and M4 Sherman, perhaps? We have a searchbox at the top. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:49, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

M4 Tractor is another possibility. Alansplodge (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Shift of Energy sectors worldwide to mitigate damage in case we run out of oil

My question is very broad. Since Oil is a limited resource is it possible to reduce the dependence of existing energy infrastructure to help the world not be affected to by a "peak oil" situation. Take into consideration also that the cost of shifting will be very difficult to handle due to the financial state of global markets. any and all answers are welcome and a discussion here is encouraged. Thank you. Merwyn0810 (talk) 17:15, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. --Jayron32 17:21, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

The cover article "What If We Never Run out of oil ?", by Charles C. Mann in the May 2013 edition of the Atlantic Monthly addresses the question and could be a good start to your reflection, whether or not it's a homework question. See here [9] --Xuxl (talk) 10:06, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

This wasn't a homework question. I actually asked because "Peak Oil" is the topic for the next Model United Nations conference I am going to attend. The article wasn't much help. Thanks for trying anyway. Wanted a deeper personal kind of answer. with some concrete research. I already have done a ton of research but I wanted a second perspective.

07:35, 30 June 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Merwyn0810 (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure where present estimates leave us - but we're burning something like 80 million barrels per day with estimates of something like 1.2 trillion barrels still in the ground - albeit much of it locked in hard-to-retrieve resources like oil sand and oil shale. That gives us a 500 year supply at current consumption rates. If we can use technological solutions to halve our energy needs within 250 years - then after we've used half of the oil, we only have half left - but it'll last twice as long - so we'll still have a 500 year supply. After another 250 years, we'd need to halve our demand again. If we can halve our needs every 250 years, then the oil will last forever.

The problem here is that we have plenty of oil - but we don't have plenty of atmosphere. Consider that since "pre-industrial times", we've pushed the amount of CO2 in the air from 280 ppm to 400 ppm. In the last 50 years, we've gone from 320ppm to 400ppm - so if we continue to use fossil fuels at that rate - then we'll add 800ppm more CO2 before the oil runs out. At 1200ppm, we'd be looking at a 6 or 7 degree temperature increase...anything over 5 degrees is generally considered to be an "End Of The World" scenario. CO2 lives in the upper atmosphere for a very long time - so it doesn't much matter whether we burn the remaining oil fast or slow - if we burn it all at all, then we're pretty much doomed.

We're not going to run out of oil...that's not the problem here!

SteveBaker (talk) 16:50, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

How long would an unused Post Office box stay opened?

I have a friend from school here in the United States who fought in the first Gulf War in 1991. He moved from the mobile home he lived in and all I know is that a PO Box in Cleveland (and I'm sure there's lots of those) is the only address I have for him.

Because of health issues he had before, I suspect he could be in a VA hospital somewhere, so I keep writing him each Christmas and once over the summer, though I haven't heard from him in maybe a decade, in case he really needs that. He also doesn't contact with his father (family issues). And, the letters never get returned to sender.

But, I just wonder, how long would it stay open if he never checked the letters. If he's deceased would the USPS learn and close it? I'm a contact for his insurance and they called me last year wondering if I'd heard from him - all they had was the PO Box, too - and they said they'd tried sending him stuff for something and he never replied. (This is where I learned they also called his dad and the dad didn't know; that's probably the only family he has left, or close to it.)

From what I read at the USPS site it looks like you have to pay a yearly rental fee, and that can be via automatic withdrawal, so I guess that *would* stop once he would pass on. So, I guess I can presume he's still alive. But, would it just get returned to me with no forwarding address if something were to happen? And, if a person has a PO Box like that, and they don't get their mail for months, does the Post Office just let it pile up, or what?Somebody or his brother (talk) 23:47, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Have you asked at the Post Office itself? They should be able to tell you if it has been emptied recently. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 00:15, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Specifically, the post office where the P.O. box is. Although it's possible they won't tell you anything, due to confidentiality, it shouldn't hurt to ask. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:47, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Veteran Associations might be another way to contact him. Here is a list :[10]--Aspro (talk) 13:28, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

If it really came down to it you could just mail a letter certified or delivery confirmation and see if it is received or signed for. μηδείς (talk) 22:46, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

You can't do that in Canada if the recipient only has a P.O. Box #. I suspect the U.S. might have similar rules. Bielle (talk) 23:06, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

You can certainly send mail to POB's signature confirmation required. I've never gotten certified mail to my POB that I can remember, though. The real point is, if it's undeliverable you will either be told wrong addressee or no signature given, which is slightly different information. μηδείς (talk) 02:20, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Canada Post will deliver certified, registered and delivery confirmation mail addressed to a PO box or even to "General Delivery". The problem is that some companies will not send to PO boxes but Canada Post doesn't worry about it. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:12, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I like Medeis' idea just above, as it stands a good chance of determining whether or not he still has the P.O. Box. You could also consider the Social Security Death Index, which isn't 100 percent foolproof, but if someone's on it, they're probably dead. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:58, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

June 29

Brick wall full of random holes

In the opening credits of the movie Suddenly, Last Summer, we see a brick wall full of holes in no particular pattern. Here's a still: [11]. Note that there were many more holes than those in the frame of this pic. They were obviously cut there intentionally. What's the purpose of these holes ? StuRat (talk) 07:12, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Possibly putlog holes ? Gandalf61 (talk) 07:51, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Could be, but I would have expected a more regular pattern if that's the case. StuRat (talk) 04:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Our article shows them at staged heights, as do some pictures on google images. μηδείς (talk) 20:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Pictures of certain cars

Is there a website that shows pictures of the cars I want to see how they look like? The following vehicles are: Peugeot 604 van, Peugeot 304 van, Peugeot 204 van, and Peugeot 305 panel van. --70.31.19.229 (talk) 15:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Donmust90

Have you tried Google Images [12] ? StewieCartman (talk) 16:21, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The website www.parkers.co.uk (website of Parker's Car Guides) has photos of most cars available and also includes both professional written reviews but also owner reviews too. Some content is behind a paywall but I think that's mostly for older cars beyond a certain age. ny156uk (talk) 23:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

How does one ask a rabbi/pastor/priest/minister about a certain biblical verse or set of verses in the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament)?

How does one, namely a person who is unaffiliated with any religious denomination or sect, find the appropriate time to ask a rabbi/pastor/priest/minister about a denominational interpretation of a certain biblical verse or set of verses in the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament), out of personal interest rather than merely an academic exercise? By the way, where do those people get their knowledge anyway? Is hermeneutics passed down orally, from teacher to student, or written down on paper? And is it possible to find an interfaith, ecumenical interpretation of the Bible? Sneazy (talk) 20:23, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

You can just call your local rabbi/pastor/priest/minister and tell them you'd like to ask some questions, and how that can be arranged. You may, however, want to make sure you don't accidentally call a rabid/pastor/priest/monster. They will invite you over then eat your brains. μηδείς (talk) 21:08, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

mild off-topic joking
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I sense sarcasm in your second sentence. Sneazy (talk) 21:13, 29 June 2013 (UTC) I am fairly certain that is not technically sarcasm, someone will know the correct term. μηδείς (talk) 22:44, 29 June 2013 (UTC) It's called a joke. --Jayron32 23:07, 29 June 2013 (UTC) Catachresis, incidentally. Tevildo (talk) 23:31, 29 June 2013 (UTC) Interesting, thanks. μηδείς (talk) 23:55, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

You can try AskMoses.com. You can also try seeing if your question has already been asked. It's quite likely: the OT/Hebrew Bible has been fairly well examined over the last few millennia. In traditional Judaism, the classic commentary is that of medieval commentator Rashi and you can find his comments for yourself at this site. Bear in mind a few things: 1) there are many other commentaries 2) Rashi rarely recorded his questions, only his answers. "What's bothering Rashi?" is a good question to ask... and the title of a book that has sold quite well. 3) Rashi's answers are rarely his own: he usually records his preference from the explanations of ancient midrashic texts. More information in the article about him I linked above.

Finally, you can post your question/s here, and depend on the goodwill of our volunteers to do the legwork for you (which is not the same as indulging themselves in OR and answering for themselves, because of course, we wouldn't dream of doing that) --Dweller (talk) 22:51, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Interpretation of the Bible is called exegesis or hermeneutics. There are bibles which have extensive Marginalia where a particular theologian has provided exegetic commentary regarding certain passages. You may find that helpful. Be aware, however, that Christian and Jewish traditions are very diverse, and exegesis will vary between the esoteric and mystical (Kabbalah for example) to the straight forward (many Protestant traditions hold to "read it and come up with your own meaning", and discourage excessive commentary. See Sola scriptura, a common Protestant tradition as part of the Five Solae, which holds that the scripture is sufficient in itself to provide its own full meaning, and does not require any special knowledge or training. See also Clarity of scripture). --Jayron32 23:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

" an interfaith, ecumenical interpretation of the Bible" is likely to be one disagreed on by all parties. Cynical, probably. True, definitely. --Dweller (talk) 23:11, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean? I have purchased a very ecumenical bible version. It's the New Oxford Annotated Bible of the New Revised Standard Version (3rd Edition). Surely, the editors come from multiple faith backgrounds and somehow work together in annotating. What do you mean by "cynical"? What do you mean by "true"? Can you explain by writing in complete sentences? Sneazy (talk) 00:40, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

The fact that a particular version of the Bible was put together by people with many different faith backgrounds does not mean that they speak for the entirety of those faiths. Or any faiths. Or any people other than themselves. There is no one "right" version of the Bible. There will always be lack of agreement about the meaning of any biblical passage you could possibly choose. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:51, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

But I didn't talk about "right" version of the Bible. I understand that there are many interpretations, and I do keep that in mind. :P Sneazy (talk) 01:40, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, good scholars can distinguish between facts and interpretations. As an example, Isaiah uses the Hebrew almah ("young women") to describe the mother of the messiah. The new testament cites the original prophecy in the Greek translation "parthenos" (virgin). A scholarly approach would list and discuss that fact. It would even, possibly, discuss the question if the author fo Matthew knew about this difference or not, and if his choice was intentional. All this can be done without coming to a conclusion about the truth of the religious belief in a virgin birth. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:11, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

The Christmas carol "Silent Night" weds all these ideas in the line about the "round young virgin". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:28, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

On a side note, a "virgin" may be interpreted as a "young girl" or "maiden". I suspect the technical distinction between "virgin" and "maiden" and "young girl" is a modern invention. Sneazy (talk) 17:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

You've got that sideways. Virgin has always meant virgin. The claim is (I haven't investigated its truth) that the Aramaic word translated as virgin in the Latin bible could have meant virgin or just young girl. And it's round ((yon virgin mother) and (child)), of course, for those not familiar. μηδείς (talk) 18:26, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Not that I want to be obnoxious, but if you look a few comments up, you can see that its not Aramaic (the language of Jesus), but Biblical Hebrew (although they may share this particular word), and its not the Latin bible (I assume you mean the Vulgate), but the "original" Koine Greek of the New Testament that introduced the "virgin" meaning. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

But that makes no sense, since there would be no stories in Hebrew about Mary. I mentioned the Vulgate because the Greek New Testament obviously doesn't use the Latin word virgo, which is what Sneazy referred to. The argument itself seems tortured and has an obvious POV. "We don't literally want Mary to be a virgin, so we will point out that the Hebrew word from the Torah meaning virgin could also just mean maiden"? I am an atheist, but not an anti-Christian. I have heard the "means young girl" argument before. But the person I was arguing with was an author who believed Jesus' existence itself was a hoax. His "scholarship" was tendentious and narrowly self-limited. μηδείς (talk) 18:55, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, according to Matthew, Isaiah 7:14 (Hebrew) is a prophecy of Jesus-the-messiah, and he uses the Greek "parthenos" instead of the Hebrew "almah" to describe the mother of said messiah (which is not named in Isaiah, but, by context, presumably Mary in Matthew's view). That may be because the author of Matthew was a "moden" Jew, and as such his primary language was Koine Greek, and possibly did not even speak Hebrew. Anyways, that is where the "virgin birth" concept comes into the Bible. The original language of the New Testament is Greek, and the early Latin versions just translated the Greek text, both of Matthew, but also of the Old Testament Septuagint. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Actually, most of the Vulgate OT was translated by Jerome from the Hebrew, not from the Septuagint. The Vetus Latina was translated from the Septuagint, and predates Jerome by a few decades, but it hasn't had nearly the level of influence of the Vulgate, and in any case the damage done to the source text's meaning by the LXX's parthenos had been done long before any Latin translation came along. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 23:16, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Culturally speaking, the terms "virgin", "maiden" and "young girl" would all have meant the same thing, wouldn't they? A girl not married (and not a harlot) would naturally be assumed to be a virgin, right? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:29, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Very likely not. Marriage is a fuzzy concept in pre-modern societies, and the obsession with virginity, purity, and (no) sex is a fairly late invention, in particular for commoners. Take a look at renaissance Italy - everybody who was somebody was illegitimate (and half where descended from clergy, or even the pope). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:43, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Definitely. (It's not often I disagree with Stefan.) The word "maid", for example, means "young girl", "unmarried girl". Virgin" if you give the benefit of the doubt. And you do give he benefit of the doubt. As with "jeune fille" in French. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:38, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

"Maiden" is etymologically equivalent to "virgin".[13] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:48, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I would think there are many websites discussing the matter. But calling a local rabbi would be an excellent idea. It's kinda like their job to know stuff about the O.T. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:32, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Do not forget the Turing test. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 00:12, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

June 30

What is the Logo with 2 hands (cupped) holding a cube?

I've been trying to search this all day! Can you tell me what company would have that Logo? On the side of a black box? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.212.96.79 (talk) 04:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Where did you see it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:55, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

It's not a company logo. It's a standard symbol used on shipping boxes. There are some examples at Packaging_and_labeling. There's an image of it here [14]]. I couldn't find a description of it, but I think it means Handle with Care (the broken glass icon means Fragile). RudolfRed (talk) 06:00, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

found another link. It does mean Handle with Care. [15] RudolfRed (talk) 06:02, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

new word definitions

There seems to be a real trend developing ...since the introduction of computer dating it's found so many using a new term for "whore" ..being 21st century....that " POF Whore"....referring to the new type of skanky person who dates while dating 20 others on line .....what is the procedure for updating terms..can this new term be added??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.39.140.142 (talk • contribs) 13:48, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary - we have articles about subjects, not terms. We do not have articles on slang phrases. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:52, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I believe you could add new terms like that to the urban dictionary, [16]. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:09, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

See WP:NEOLOGISM. Dismas|^(talk) 14:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

While Wikipedia is not a dictionary, our sister project "Wiktionary" is exactly that. If you look up "whore", on that site, you get the following definitions:

1. A prostitute.
2. (pejorative) A person who is considered to be sexually promiscuous (see also: slut).
3. A person who is unscrupulous, especially one who compromises their principles for gain.
4. A person who will violate behavioral standards to achieve something desired.
5. A contemptible person.

I'd say that your usage is somewhere between (2) and (4)...with a touch of (3) and (5). I think Wiktionary has your modern usage about right. FYI: "POF" stands for the online dating site "PlentyofFish" - so that prefix is a bit overly specific. Similar behavior patterns on other online dating sites would have different names.

It also offers "attention whore" [17] - which I think is the precise usage you're after here.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:53, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

• Urban Dictionary would love to take the new word. It's exactly what it is made for. Wikipedia does not do this sort of thing, but Urban Dictionary does, and you should submit your new word there. --Jayron32 19:39, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

July 1

100K Initiative, Project Pengyou, and Golden Bridges

Hello!

I was hoping that you could let me know if these organizations are notable enough to write about. Obama's 100K Strong Initiative is meant to promote U.S.-China cultural understanding by encouraging American students to study abroad in China. Project Pengyou and Golden Bridges are two organizations meant to promote this initiative as well as other programs promoting this cross-cultural dialogue (which, obviously, is very important).

Thank you! Joey — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jfritz14 (talk • contribs) 01:54, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

When legally can a former two term president serve as a technical third term president?

/ When legally can a former two term president serve as a third term president?