User talk:Anotherclown

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Disambiguation link notification for January 1

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Australian Army in World War II, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages La Perouse and West Papua (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Fixed. Anotherclown (talk) 22:04, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Battle and theatre honours of the Australian Army

Sorry for the edit conflict. I was just looking at the battle honours for Crete and noticed that Middle East 1941, is identified as Middle East 1941-1944 on the AWM website. I also think the battle honour Johore would be better linked to Malayan Campaign#Defence of Johore. Your thoughts? Regards Newm30 (talk) 22:33, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Gday Newm30. You have a keen eye for detail. This is an interesting honour - you are indeed correct in that the AWM calls it "Middle East 1941-1944". Unfortanely two other sources only call it "Middle East 1941" (both the Army website and Rodger 2003 p 338, although they both aggree that the date of service was 1941 to 1944! According to Rodger there were actually two different battle honours: one was "Middle East 1941" (which was awarded to a bunch of British and Australian units) and the other was "Middle East 1941-44" (awarded to NZ units only). As such I think the AWM might be slightly off here, in that while the dates of service were indeed 1941-1944 the honour as presented to the Australian Army appears to have been called "Middle East 1941". At least thats my take on the sources - but I'm speculating a little here. Thoughts? Re the link for Johore - your idea makes sense. Happy with you making the change if you wish. I'm heading out now for a few hours so if your interested in adding more links to the article there shouldn't be any edit conflicts. Thanks for your help with this one. Anotherclown (talk) 22:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting. Maybe one for AWM to answer. Regards Newm30 (talk) 05:29, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Fort Dobbs (North Carolina) A-Class Review

Thank you for your comments at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Fort Dobbs (North Carolina)! I believe I've addressed all of the comments you made, but feel free to let me know if there's anything else that would help polish this article up. I'm looking to do GAN next, and then FAC if it's at all possible. Thanks again! Cdtew (talk) 14:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. I've added my support now. Good luck with the project. Anotherclown (talk) 21:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Messines 1917

I've incorporated most of the suggestions made about the Messines 1917 article, are you happy to support A-class status or so you think more work is necessary? Thanks. Keith-264 (talk) 18:22, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Gday. I've completed my review and added my support now. Best of luck with it. Anotherclown (talk) 13:06, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks mate.Keith-264 (talk) 13:21, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

fyi...

FYI... The WikiProject Biography banner is always the first banner on a talk page. Bgwhite (talk) 09:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I haven't heard that one before - can you pls point to the policy which states that? Anotherclown (talk) 09:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:TPL. There is another reason TPL does't mention and it is for listas reasons. Bgwhite (talk) 19:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that - will do in future. Anotherclown (talk) 21:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks mate!

Hi Anotherclown,

I noticed that you've been polishing my edits to Phillip Hughes. Thanks mate, I appreciate it!

Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.216.25.47 (talk) 10:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

No worries at all. Good to see someone adding references. Cheers. Anotherclown (talk) 10:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 8

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Australian Army in World War II, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Vila, Bougainville and New Ireland (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Done. Anotherclown (talk) 11:22, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

15th (Imperial Service) Cavalry Brigade

Hi thanks for picking up the GA review for the 15th (Imperial Service) Cavalry Brigade. There seems to be a strangly timed attack on it at the moment, if you want to hold off on the review I don't mind. Jim Sweeney (talk) 03:29, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

I did start reverting but leaving it for now. Jim Sweeney (talk) 03:38, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Not problem - I've placed it on hold for now. Thanks for the note. Anotherclown (talk) 04:50, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. Jim Sweeney (talk) 17:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Green

G'day, is there anything else that you think needs to be added to Charles Hercules Green? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:08, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Nothing seems to leap out at me as being missing, although I note the Butler refs does devote a lot of space to discussing Green's tactics. Probably not really required to go to that sort of detail though. I think the article summarizes the subject fairly well as is. Maybe add 41st Bn to the "Comds Held" field? Anotherclown (talk) 09:39, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Added, thanks. I've put it up for re-assessment now, as I think it should be up to B class standard. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:53, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

October to December 2012 Milhist Peer, A-class and FAC reviews

		The WikiChevrons
		By order of the Military History WikiProject coordinators, for your devoted contributions to the WikiProject's Peer, A-Class and Featured Article Candidate reviews for the period Oct-Dec 2012, I am delighted to award you the WikiChevrons. AustralianRupert (talk) 09:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Picture and map captions.

Greetings again AnotherC, do you know why

Battle of the Somme 1916

manages to go where I want it but the caption won't appear? I copied the caption format from pictures which have them but nothing appeared here User:Keith-264/sandbox2 and also tried removing the chevrons.Keith-264 (talk) 14:17, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. Yep you just need to add the "thumb" parametre so it displays as a thumbnail. Pls see the diff of this edit [1]. I hope this helps. Anotherclown (talk) 21:59, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Brilliant, thank you.Keith-264 (talk) 08:07, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

PS don't think I haven't noticed the anachronistic colonial drive-by. ;O);O)Keith-264 (talk) 08:25, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Gday again Keith. I had to think about this one for a bit as I always thought an anachronism was something ascribed to an earlier time period not a later one (which I'm guessing was your point). Nonetheless I'm assuming you were refering to me adding the Canadian flag to the infobox of this article. That said, and I'll admit to not being 100% on consistitutional law, I do not agree with the implication that the armies of the Dominions were part of the British Army during World War I as you seem to contend. Doubtless the Dominions were not completely independent until adopting the Statute of Westminster in 1942 but their status as self governing seems compelling, even if there were of course part of the British Empire.

Again I'm not at all familiar with Canada but as a example Australian forces were raised under an act of the Australian parliament (the Defence Act 1903) and were not subject to the British Army Act. As a consequence they could only face the death penalty for four offences - mutiny, desertion, treatchery leading to fall of a garrision and treasonous correspondence, and even then the sentence had to be confirmed by the Governor-General. As a consequence no Australian soldier was put to death during the war. In contrast the British Army Act provided the death penalty for no less the 17 offences and hundreds of British soldiers were shot. Equally, unlike the United Kingdom, recruitment in Australia remained voluntarily with conscription being rejected twice by the Australian people in two seperate referenda. Were the Australian Army a mere adjunct of the British Army one assumes such matters would have been decided in Whitehall, but instead they were matters of public policy decided by the Australian government and its electorate. Anotherclown (talk) 11:00, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

That bit about the Governor-General is the constitutional nicety. The Westminster parliament was sovereign (I thought until the 1931 Statute of Westminster). My point isn't that Dominion units were indistinguishable but that they were integral, they had the same operational chain of command. My understanding of anachronism is that it means "wrong time" - like a painting of the Mona Lisa with a tin of Fosters. If we put symbols in as if Australian and Canadian forces were seperate as if they were from independent allied states like the Portuguese army, then Saxon and Bavarian etc contingents need to be treated the same. I fear I have a bit of a bee up my bum about it but when the flags are put in I've tried to leave them alone, honest.Keith-264 (talk) 11:15, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes the Westminster parliament was technically sovereign, but that is not the issue here. I'm not going to attempt to argue about the difference between 'de jure' and 'de facto' independence (mainly because I don't fully understand it), but as I've already demonstrated above the Australian Army was entirely seperate administratively and had its own conditions of service. This was no nicety, it was a legislative fact. Administered entirely sererately with policy decided in Australia by Australians. Yes integrated operationally with the British Army, and often with British commanders, but so are most modern coalitions (although I agree this is a shakey comparison - national command arrangements for one being far more restrictive of course). I don't follow your argument about Saxon and Bavarian contingents either really - IMO the equivalent argument would be to list individual Australian states under Australia - like Queensland, or Canadian provinces like British Colombia and no one is arguing to do that. AFAIK the Statute of Westminster was not adopted until 1942, although it was passed in 1931. It was then applied retrospectively to 1939. Regardless I'd argue that the status of self-governing Dominion was a fairly unique one which probably warrants an infobox flag where there was significant involvement. Indeed each of the Dominions sent their own delegations to the Paris Peace Conference (although that was controversial). As an aside do you know if this has been discussed before and what the consensus there was? Would be interesting to know. Anotherclown (talk) 12:06, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps the status of Dominion formations was akin to Pals battalions in the Citizen Army? I have the impression that it's a hardy perennial but I've not pursued it formally. ;O)Keith-264 (talk) 13:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't know very much about the Citizen Army either but I can't really see how they would be analogous (the Pals Battalions were still units of the British Army weren't they?). FWIW - like you I'm not looking to make this an issue. I disagree with you for the reasons I've outlined above but I think we can both agree there are far more important things for us to do with our time, so I'm happy to move on. Anyway I had a bit of a rethink about the definition of an "anachronism" BTW - and have to admit that you were indeed using it correctly (the Foster's explaination worked well in explaining it to a beer swilling colonial such as myself - thanks). The way I saw it you were saying that as Canada was a Dominion not an independent nation in World War I, applying the Canadian flag was a case of placing the battle at a point in time the future (i.e. when Canada was an independent nation). Of course though, if one accepts that the battle occurred when it did (which is obvious now I think of it), placing the flag on it was placing it in the past hence it is anachronstic. Anyway I digress - I'll learn the Queen's English one day! If you don't mind me asking where are you from BTW? Take it easy Keith. Anotherclown (talk) 05:25, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Oi! I'm English! Haven't you noticed the truculent manner and slighting remarks about Australian cricket? (we've got to be quick given Engand's record of self-destructing when there's no opposition to do it for them;O)) Apropos the Canadian flag it's the red one not the maple leaf flag - won't that risk annoying modern Canadians?Keith-264 (talk) 08:58, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes I assumed as much (English that is). Don't mention the cricket (to misquote another Englishmen)! Its not like it was in my childhood... we'll come good one day but I fear the Ashes are lost (depending on ones allegiance) for a few more years yet. Re the old version of the flag - my experience from other articles is that the version that was current at the time of the event is the one that is used by custom (not sure if there is a policy on that). To use the maple leaf version would indeed be anachronistic (IMO anyway)! You are right though - it has at times attracted the odd drive by change by IPs though (an example would be Battle of Kapyong). Anotherclown (talk) 09:27, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXII, January 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: The month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Nick-D looks at Mongol naval power Op-ed: Crisco 1492 on war films

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Talk:Australian Army during World War II

G'day Anotherclown, the project tag on this page has a red "currently undergoing" (A class) link. I think maybe because the page was moved after the ACR started. I haven't a scoobie how to fix it. As nominator, can you sort it? Sorry about that. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

G'day, I've fixed this. This occured due to the article being moved after the review was opened. My understanding is that what is required in these circumstances is for the review page to be moved in sympathy with the article. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 04:46, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Gents. Anotherclown (talk) 23:24, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

It is still listed under "Need project tag fixed", so there is something pwetty screwy goin on awound here... Peacemaker67 (send... over) 08:16, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

This is a noodle scratcher... I managed to fix three others in that category with fairly simple tweaks but can't figure this one out at the moment. Sorry lads - seems my moving the article has caused this one. Anotherclown (talk) 08:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Hans Waldmann (fighter pilot)

Are you happy with this article? Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:53, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Gday Hawkeye7 - I still have a couple of outstanding points. I've responded at the review. Thanks for the prod! Anotherclown (talk) 22:48, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Brisbane meetup with Sue Gardner invitation

Brisbane Meetup Next: 11 February 2013 5-8PM - Drinks and light dinner at SLQ with Sue Gardner Last: 3 August 2012

Hi there! You are cordially invited to a meetup on 11 Febrary 2013 with Sue Gardner, Executive Director of the Wikimedia Foundation.

More details can be found at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane/7. I hope to see you there! John Vandenberg 02:31, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

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Changing interwiki links

I reverted your change to September 11 attack because Wikidata does not support Featured and Good article stars in the display of wikilinks. This is one of the cases where it was discussed not to use Wikidata yet. Rmhermen (talk) 22:11, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

No worries. Anotherclown (talk) 22:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Please also make sure that you do not remove interwiki links that are not on wikidata yet as you did here ·Add§hore· ^{Talk To Me!} 22:46, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikidata has been deployed to the English Wikipedia. Wikidata manages interwiki links on a separate project on pages such as this.

Further information: m:Wikidata/Deployment Questions and https://blog.wikimedia.de/?p=13892.

All interwiki bots that run on the English Wikipedia have now stopped adding interwiki links.

Removal of interwiki links on a page linked to a wikidata item that contains the links is NOT vandalism. Please use this script which can identify if the links are found on wikidata.

If you have any questions regarding wikidata please use the talk page Wikipedia talk:Wikidata. ·Add§hore· ^{Talk To Me!} 22:47, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. Thanks for the script. Yes I've been adding the missing links manually to wikidata but I guess I missed one. How do you know the script is working? I've put it in my common file but can't see any visible sign that its doing anything. Cheers. Anotherclown (talk) 23:05, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

When you are in the edit window there is a new button up the top that will remove interwiki links found on wikidata, there is no rush to remove all of these manually with lots of clicks as bots are migrating the links to wikidata and removing the links on EN articles. ·Add§hore· ^{Talk To Me!} 23:15, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes I see it now. Thanks muchly. Anotherclown (talk) 23:29, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

advisor.js

I've just noticed this recent edit using advisor.js, which italicised a piece of legislation "per WP:ITALICS". As far as I'm aware, this isn't common practice on WP or off it (it's not mentioned at the linked page) - I've removed that change & filed a bug report for advisor.js, but you might want to know in case it crops up again!

Thanks for the other tidying, Andrew Gray (talk) 15:15, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Howdy - that wasn't advisor - that was me doing an edit with advisor and a manual edit at the same time. So no need to report as a bug. BTW, WP:ITALICS mentions court case names but I guess your saying this is different to legislation. Its come up in quite a few ACRs that legislation should be in italics, although I agree the policy doesn't seem to actually say legislation. Cheers. Anotherclown (talk) 22:22, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations!

		The Military history A-Class medal
		On behalf of the coordinators of the Military history WikiProject, I'm pleased to award you the A-Class Medal for your work on Battle of Kapyong, Operation Crimp, and Australian Army during World War II; three excellent articles spanning different eras of Australian military history. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Belated congrats, AC -- as Hawkeye suggests, how appropriate that there's an article each from three wars across three consecutive decades in this one ACM. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:26, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Gents. Anotherclown (talk) 09:42, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

interwiki

Hi Dear friend! I added fa interwiki and you wiped it out. You friendly mentioned that has been in wikidata. thanks for your technical editing but my question is why am I seeing interwiki on the page whereas I don't surprisingly see [[fa:....., in edit page? and I have another Q: Is this rule for FA? If the answer is yes tell me why? I see interwikis in other edit pages! Alborzagros (talk) 11:04, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. Wikidata is the new way of maintaining interwiki links centrally (as opposed to on each individual page). So links get added to Wikidata not the article itself. Its a very recent change so you may not of heard of it yet. You will notice that although the markup was removed from the article, the link still appears on the left hand tool bar under the heading "languages". The reason you see this markup in other articles is that the bot (or our human editors) haven't gotten around to removing them all yet (its a work in progress). I hope this explaination helps. Anotherclown (talk) 11:10, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 25

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The Bugle: Issue LXXXIII, February 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Nick-D looks at US Army leadership since World War II

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Msg from user page

And G'day Anotherclown, I'm just writing to say thanks for giving me the heads up, I only started recently, thanks mate. --The Researcher2 (talk) 06:10, 18 March 2013 (UTC) (Delete at will... obviously)

No problem at all. Anotherclown (talk) 11:30, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXIV, March 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Nick-D looks at refugees during the Battle of France Interview: Editors discuss writing articles about the former Yugoslavia Op-ed: Prioryman on German V-weapon sites and the historian's responsibility

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Thank you

Thanks for the invitation to the military history wikiproject. I just added my name to the list of contributors. Anne (talk) 15:06, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Confused

I don't really get what we do in MILHIST can you please clarify what one editor does in the group. Do we make articles that involves war or something else. I would appreciate if you can explain this to me simply, Thanks.EthanKP (talk · contribs)

Gday. MILHIST is a fairly large project with a broad scope which includes wars / battles / events, organisations / units / formations, weapons / equipment, theory, biographies, and even books and films (to name a few). Like the rest of wikipedia editors are free to participate as much or as little as they want and there are no real set tasks or anything like that. If you are looking at a way of contributing pls have a look at our list of open tasks. I hope this helps. Anotherclown (talk) 10:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I get it now thanks for the info.EthanKP (talk · contribs) 3:54, 1 Apil 2013

File:Wavell p.134.jpeg

Thanks very much for fixing the PD tag - I couldn't work out what the problem was! Much appreciated - All the best, --Rskp (talk) 02:16, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Anotherclown (talk) 10:38, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you about this again, but the file has been deleted anyway. Reason being: "File:Wavell p.134.jpeg (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) was deleted pursuant to this discussion: Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_April_10#File:Wavell_p.134.jpeg. PD-UK says that images are public domain in the UK 70 years after the death of the author. But in order for the image to be used on Wikipedia, it needs to be public domain in the United States (where Wikimedia's servers are located) - it doesn't matter if it is public domain in the country of origin. If it was published in 1933 in the UK, it's still copyrighted here. Now, all that said, please see commons:Commons:Derivative_works#Maps. The underlying facts of the map are not copyrightable. So you could ask at the Wikipedia:Graphics Lab and someone could probably make a nice map that shows the information embodied in this map, but is an original creative work. --B (talk) 01:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)" Is there anyway of getting it reinstated? --Rskp (talk) 02:00, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't have much experience with the process (and my only attempt to have an image "undeleted" failed); however, you can request the decision be reviewed here: Wikipedia:Deletion review. You will need to be able to argue why the decision was contrary to policy. It may pay to post a notice on the MILHIST talk page if / when you request review notifying others of the discussion. Best of luck. Anotherclown (talk) 09:37, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that. It does seem weird that the editor who deleted the file on the basis of the typo now claims its something entirely different. --Rskp (talk) 01:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Agreed - I noticed the same thing. Anotherclown (talk) 01:52, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

James Moore (Continental Army officer)

Hey! Thanks for your comments on my article over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/James Moore (Continental Army officer). Just wanted to let you know I've addressed your concerns, and would be happy to discuss it further with you on that page. Thanks! Cdtew (talk) 23:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Cheers. Added my spt now. Anotherclown (talk) 00:20, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

White Coke

Hi! I just remembered White Coke DYK I nominated quite a while ago and thought to ask you if that one falls into the scope of WP:MILHIST or not. Judging from the topic, I'd say no, but thought to ask just to be on a safe side.--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:16, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Gday. This is quite an interesting article, I'd never heard of White Coke before and the historical background is fascinating (especially for an article about a soft drink). Whilst it doesn't seem to fit neatly into MILHISTs scope (see [2]), given that some of the key players (Zhukov, Eisenhower and Clark) were senior military figures during World War II and the immediate post-war period—not to mention the unfolding global political situation at the time—it might fall under 2. Military personnel, including both leaders and common soldiers, as well as other people involved in military affairs. Although adding too many project tags to an article can sometimes draw the crabs personally I don't think there would be an issue with tagging it for MILHIST. Anotherclown (talk) 12:45, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, tagged as advised.--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:41, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXV, April 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Sturmvogel 66 and Hawkeye7 look at aspects of the Pacific War Op-ed: ErrantX considers the rabbit hole of research

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Article title

Hi! I just had a go at expanding and referencing the United Nations Confidence Restoration Operation, a UN peacekeeping mission article. There's just one thing: the mission was officially called "United Nations Confidence Restoration Operation in Croatia" as per UNSC Resolution 981. Admittedly, the "in Croatia" bit is usually forgotten since the established acronym is "UNCRO". I'm not bent on changing the title, but I'm wondering if that should be done or not.

On a side note, I got around to trimming more of the "Background" section of the Operation Winter '94 as promised in the ACR. Cheers!--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:30, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Gday - I believe the appropriate policy is probably WP:COMMONNAME. What name do the majority of sources use? That said the full name United Nations Confidence Restoration Operation in Croatia may be less ambiguous so changing it to its official name would probably makes sense even if its not used in the majority of sources. To be honest as long as there is a reliable source which verifies that its official name included "in Croatia" then I would support moving it. Maybe just pose the question on the talk page and if no one objects in a few days just be bold and move it. I hope this helps. Anotherclown (talk) 08:25, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, I posted such a note. I fixed the reference in the ACR too, and in terms of the last paragraph of the Background section, I noticed that Peacemaker started a review of the same article and posted there asking him to comment on the issue. I trust that if he supports, along with you and Errant, removal of the paragraph (I don't mind removing it), there'd be a sufficient consensus regardless of the GAR.--Tomobe03 (talk) 08:58, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Gallipoli and other random thoughts

Hi, mate, I hope you were able to catch up with some mates today. I had a quite Anzac Day: went to the local service, but it kind of doesn't feel like Anzac Day without your mates around. It would be better to be in Brisbane. Anyway, I felt compelled to have a go at working on the Gallipoli campaign article. If you are keen, I could use a hand. I figure that the steps to fix it might be: (1) add references, (2) work on the content/narrative, (3) start fixing the formatting to make everything consistent and then (4) ask for a peer review. I don't have designs on GA or A, but just want to improve it so it is reasonably functional. It is currently assessed as B class, but it is more likely start or C-class. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 04:04, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Gday. March through I with Bn, otherwise low key for the same reasons. Working tomorrow too so got to take it easy. Sure will have a look at the article over the weekend and see what I can do. Certainly would be good to get it to a presentable standard. Anotherclown (talk) 11:30, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. The casualty table in the article is a nightmare. The figures are cited to rather poor websites and other sources, and doesn't seem to match most of the sources I have (for instance Carlyon). Was thinking of completely redoing it using a single source rather the multiple sources which mix high and low estimates of questionable qlty. Thoughts? Probably should pose this question on the article talk page I guess as I imagine a change like that probably needs to be discussed first. Anotherclown (talk) 11:50, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

G'day, I've got no objections to it, but you are right, on this sort of article it is probably best discussed first on the talk page. Can I suggest then, that we leave it to last. That way, it will allow us to bring the rest of the article up to scratch before what might be a potentially distracting conversation? Thanks for the help, by the way. Still a lot to go, but if we can keep at it, we might be home by Christmas... ;-) Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:36, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep good idea. Anotherclown (talk) 12:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

BTW I have reassessed as C class. You're rights its definitely not yet a B. Anotherclown (talk) 22:46, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Greetings, I have casualty statistics recorded in the OH if that's any help.Keith-264 (talk) 22:57, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely - this article needs citations to high qlty RS to replace some of poor qlty websites and Encarta refs so pls feel free to add them if you have time. Anotherclown (talk) 23:02, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Gday AR. One of the citations says "Broadbent 2013", did you mean "Broadbent 2005"? Cheers. Anotherclown (talk) 03:05, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

What do you guys think about adding a "units" field to the infobox? I think it could work well as a mini order of battle and is used in many other articles. Anotherclown (talk) 11:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I like the idea, given the relatively small number of divisions involved.Keith-264 (talk) 13:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

AR - BTW I added a source for this image: File:Dardanelles_fleet-2.jpg. Used google image search here [3] (click the camera in the right corner of search field, then enter the URL). Still a few to go if you are interested. Anotherclown (talk) 11:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Cheers, I had a go, but couldn't seem to get it to work. It kept saying that the url didn't relate to an image. I must be being dense. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:50, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Blast. The issue is the url must be to the file, not to the image page - not sure how to find the direct url for a wikifile. Anotherclown (talk) 10:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok so there might be a formula we can reverse engineer but I'm a bit too dense. The permanent link for this file [4] is: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/French_75_gun_at_Cape_Helles_1915.jpg/926px-French_75_gun_at_Cape_Helles_1915.jpg. Not sure if that helps though. If you put this into the Google image search it will come up with results. Anotherclown (talk) 11:04, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

G'day, I tried that. It still didn't like it. Hmm... frustrating. AustralianRupert (talk) 11:18, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Had a bit of a break through. Found a source for File:French_75_gun_at_Cape_Helles_1915.jpg [5]. I've added what details I could but can you pls have a look? I believe it will need a US tag lest it raise the ire of the oxygen-thieving image police. I've got no idea about such things, wonder if you could add the appropriate tag if you know it? I think the rest of the images should have the req'd info or did I miss one? Anotherclown (talk) 10:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Great, I've added a tag that I think should do the trick. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Dare we nominate for GA? Or do you want to put up for peer review first? Anotherclown (talk) 11:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

G'day, probably best to do the peer review first, I think. I'm not really an expert on the era, so it would be good to get more input. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes that makes sense. Anotherclown (talk) 09:20, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

G'day, the peer review is here. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Milhist FA, A-Class and Peer Reviews January–March 2013

		The WikiChevrons
		By order of the Military history WikiProject coordinators, for your devoted contributions to the WikiProject's Peer, A-Class and Featured Article reviews for the period January–March 2013, I am delighted to award you the WikiChevrons. AustralianRupert (talk) 22:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Anotherclown (talk) 22:47, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks much

Thanks very much for the Military history service award, it's really most appreciated! Thanks again, — Cirt (talk) 00:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Thanks again for this —Cliftonian (talk) 11:31, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

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Australian contribution to UNTAG

Dear AnotherClown,

Thank you very much for your thought provoking and detailed comments on the Australian contribution to UNTAG. I have pretty well covered all of your comments and suggestions. Interested to hear your thoughts.

• The comments about Cuban involvement in particular were complex to bring in, so I ended up having to largely rework large parts of the introduction. I had hoped to keep that complexity out of the article, focussing instead on the overall picture inside Namibia and Australians. However you are correct in that the force of 25,000 Cubans (something like 500,000 Cubans over 20+ years) had a dramatic impact on the region and needed explanation. I don't recall that the Cuban's ever rated a mention during the mission, and there is no mention of them in the sources, but they were an important factor in the background. The intro now explains this far better.
• The comment about making it a more neutral POV with respect to the South Africans was also well made. I have now corrected this in several areas giving credit where credit was due. They did consent to the operation, they ran the election and they disbanded the feared Koevoet force. And, when they were not throwing grenades out of planes at us, they were quite friendly.

Thanks in anticipation. Rgds, AWHS (talk) 08:46, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

• They do sound like fun! Added my spt now. Anotherclown (talk) 11:06, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks very much. AWHS (talk) 11:49, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Long Tan

Top shelf! About time this article got rewritten. 49.176.68.71 (talk) 11:38, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you masked stranger! Quite a lot of editors have worked on it over the years. Its still a work in progress but I hope to take it to GA one day. Occasionally it attracts a bit of attention though. Regards. Anotherclown (talk) 08:11, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Ancre 1917

Thanks for taking a look, it's been becalmed for a couple of months so I put it on slighty unfinished, the last section is going to have some narrative of the I Anzac Corps so there will be a contrast between the successful and unsuccessful attacks during the German preliminary withdrawals, which will dovetail with the narrative of Alberich on the Hindenburg Line page.Keith-264 (talk) 11:54, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Anotherclown. You have new messages at Talk:John William Finn/GA1.
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AFC links

Oh mate, tks for doing all those links to the new AFC article... I was planning to do so eventually (as most of the articles requiring the link are probably mine!) -- did you get 'em all, 'cos happy to take over if you didn't... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 04:48, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. I went through the first 500 that came up in the search engine so there is probably about 1,500 left to check/add/amend. Anotherclown (talk) 04:54, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Heh, how did you do the search? I only got about 240 occurrences and each one I randomly checked (many of course had appeared on my watchlist) was done... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:20, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Try this link: [6]. Hopefully that should work. Anotherclown (talk) 05:36, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi mate, forgot to mention I tried this search day before yesterday and I think you must've got everything -- I'd just looked for "Australian Flying Corps" to get my 240 results (which were all done); your search finds everything with "Australian" + "Flying" + "Corps", so it's a longer list but randomly checking articles throughout they all seemed done... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:24, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Must have been more efficient than I thought! Cheers Ian. Anotherclown (talk) 09:34, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Anotherclown. You have new messages at Talk:John William Finn/GA1.
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An award

	Is that sweet bean?!?
	For reviewing the article John William Finn for Good Article status, and thus elevating it, I hereby present to you this Halo-halo. May it fuel your future edits and evaluations of other Good Article Nominees. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 13:36, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks mate. Anotherclown (talk) 10:49, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

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Gallipoli Campaign order of battle (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

added links pointing to 13th Division and 11th Division (United Kingdom)

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M'Cmunn

I copied Macmunn from the OH, which is also found here http://www.greatwardustjackets.co.uk/page52.html but I qon't quibble.;O)Keith-264 (talk) 13:35, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Gday Keith. I noticed though that you used "MacMunn" in the references section so I checked World Cat and that's what they used [7]. Happy either way as long as its consistent so pls feel free to change it back if you think it best. Anotherclown (talk) 09:41, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I tend to copy the usage in the source but pre-war ones aren't as systematic as now so I probably noticed after I'd put the book reference in. I prefer the worldcat usage anyway. ;O)Keith-264 (talk) 09:52, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Gallipoli Campaign order of battle

G'day Anotherclown, well done on creating the Gallipoli Campaign order of battle. I was wondering your thoughts on the supporting Naval elements and whether they need to be mentioned? Regards Newm30 (talk) 03:31, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. Yes definitely think naval forces should be added (and more detail on the air elements). If you are interested in doing this pls feel free. I'm quite busy at work ATM so I'm not likely to get around to doing anytime soon it I'm afraid. Anotherclown (talk) 11:07, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Suitable title

Hi! I'm uncertain what would be an appropriate title for the Yugoslav People's Army strategic offensive against Croatia in 1991. Since the offensive consisted of numerous engagements, I was thinking about "JNA campaign in Croatia". Would that be fine or is use of the acronym problematic? Sources refer to the campaign in descriptive terms i.e. Yugoslav People's Army strategic offensive against Croatia, or less frequently as the JNA strategic offensive in Croatia. As far as I can tell, there is no proper name for the campaign. Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Gday again. The appropriate policy is here: WP:MILMOS#NAME. I didn't see anything on using acronyms, but it does seem like it would be problematic to me. I admit to not being too familiar with the protagonists or events in question but would something like "Yugoslav strategic offensive in Croatia" work? Just a suggestion. Might be a good idea to pose this question on the MILHIST talkpage to get a wider consensus from more knowledgeable editors than me though. I hope this helps. Anotherclown (talk) 09:19, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'll definitely post on the MILHIST project talk page then.--Tomobe03 (talk) 09:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Help needed!

Hey Anotherclown, how are you? Anyway I have recently been doing a major revamp of the article Hawkesbury and Nepean Wars. The article deserves much more attention than it currently gets, and any advice on improving it would be greatly appreciated. If you could please tell me how you drew your digital maps it would be great thanks, I really wanna draw up the Battles of the Hawkesbury, Parramatta, Appin, as well as the Nepean campaign. I think it's really important to help develop this article as it is one of the few fullscale wars that occurred on Australian soil. Thanks again and please respond to this on my talkpage!--Collingwood26 (talk) 06:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Gday Collingwood26 and hello again. Maps can indeed convey a lot of information to a reader so if you can mark one up they are a really big help. I am not a graphic designer though so I have always struggled but after a lot of trying I settled on the Inkscape program (get a mouse if you don't have one because the swipe pad on a laptop is painful to use). There is an excellent tutorial on map making for military topics here Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Academy/Creating maps which includes links to tools and some templates. Alternatively if you are really stuck you can create a request at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop and hopefully someone may be able to draw one up for you if you have a source map. One final resort is to look at articles and see what users created the maps and then approach them directly to see if they are interested in illustrating the article in question. I believe User:SpoolWhippets may be a professional working in this area and he has previously taken requests from some users so he might be able to help. He has done some really invaluable work (see Battle of Bita Paka, Arnold Potts, Battle of Milne Bay, Battle of Wareo and several other articles in the Bougainville Campaign for instance). He isn't very active as he may be busy in real life but it might be worth a shot approaching him directly if you don't have any luck either doing it yourself or requesting at the Graphics lab. Best of luck. Anotherclown (talk) 08:43, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Lol I did say reply on my talk page haha only because I tend to forget things but nvm, thankyou soo much for the help I think i might give a crack at drawing them up myself as a lot of the info comes from books and not maps already made :P Is the Inkscape program for free?--Collingwood26 (talk) 12:50, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes pretty sure its free. Anotherclown (talk) 09:10, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXVI, May 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Dumelow on the French Foreign Legion and Nick-D on New Zealand military history Op-ed: Nick-D on military history tourism

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Invitation for taking a short survey about communication and efficiency of WikiProjects for my research

Hi Anotherclown,

I'm working on a project to study the running of WikiProject and possible performance measures for it. I learn from WikiProject Military History talk page that you are one of the coordinators for the project. I would like to invite you to take a short survey for my study. If you are available to take our survey, could you please reply an email to me? I'm new to Wikipedia, I can't send too many emails to other editors due to anti-spam measure. Thank you very much for your time. Xiangju (talk) 15:00, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

{{PD-1923}}

Hi! I see that you have added {{PD-1923}} to a few images (meaning that they were published somewhere before 1923, for example in a book, newspaper or magazine), but you have not provided any information on how to verify this. In which book, newspaper or magazine were they published before 1923? --Stefan2 (talk) 00:02, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

All images clearly predate this. Tag added on the basis of the implied claim made by the original uploader - I'm not in a position to validate that though, perhaps they can. Trying to help inexperienced users rather than just deleting their content. If you think this is incorrect then feel free to remove. I couldn't care less, although you clearly do. Anotherclown (talk) 00:52, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

They were clearly taken before 1923, but there is no indication about where the images were first published. If they weren't published before 1923, then the tag isn't correct and shouldn't be used. --Stefan2 (talk) 14:52, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

My comment wasn't an invitation for a discussion. Anotherclown (talk) 15:55, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to ANZAC Mounted Division may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 04:46, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. Anotherclown (talk) 23:12, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

1st Division

G'day, mate, not sure if you have any refs that might be application to 1st Division (Australia), but if you do would you mind taking a look? There are a couple of citation needed tags I haven't been able to deal with. It could also do with an image from World War II if any can be found. Anyway, I'm away for the next couple of weeks so I'll come back to it then. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 13:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Howdy, found the missing citations in Bean's Anzac to Amiens and have added them now. Will see what I can do about an image. Anotherclown (talk) 04:55, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for adding those. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:00, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Stalemate in Southern Palestine

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --Rskp (talk) 01:36, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Backlog Drive

AnotherClown,

How long is the backlog drive good for? I may need to get a couple of books from Amazon. Adamdaley (talk) 01:25, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Gday again Adam. It goes until 30 Jun so there is quite a bit of time. Best of luck! Anotherclown (talk) 10:28, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Citation quality

Quick question, are printed citations preferred to online ones? Order of battle for the Battle of the Somme has a lot of online ones and I stumbled on Miles, W. (1938). Official History of the War, Military Operations, France and Belgium 1916, Maps and Appendices (IWM & Battery Press 1994 ed.). London: Macmillan. ISBN 0-89839-207-1. while tinkering with Delville Wood order of battle (My first attempt at an OOB page using the material from Battle of Delville Wood.) so I could replace the interweb references quite easily if desired. Thanks.Keith-264 (talk) 07:59, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello Keith. I think it probably depends on the qlty of the online source but yes probably. According to WP:SOURCE articles should use: "...reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy..." and "...Where available, academic and peer-reviewed publications are usually the most reliable sources...". The official history would certainly meet the requirements of WP:RS and if it was used to replace low qlty websites then I think that would be a definite improvement. I personally prefer printed sources to websites because the requirements of publishing generally ensure they are more reliable than a website which nearly anyone can set up. Interestingly though in the past I have had some editors criticize my use of "offline" sources because it is harder to verify the information they are supporting (unless you obtain a copy of the book used etc). Hope this helps. Anotherclown (talk) 21:55, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, considering the effort the writers put in I didn't want to tread on toes but Guillemont is still a bit of a headache so I fancy a change....Keith-264 (talk) 23:06, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

No worries at all. Anotherclown (talk) 23:10, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 7

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Fixed. Anotherclown (talk) 23:11, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Good Articles Recruitment Centre

Hello! Now, some of you might have already received a similar message a little while ago regarding the Recruitment Centre, so if you have, there is no need to read the rest of this. This message is directed to users who have reviewed over 15 Good article nominations and are not part of WikiProject Good articles (the first message I sent out went to only WikiProject members). So for those who haven't heard about the Recruitment Centre yet, you may be wondering why there is a Good article icon with a bunch of stars around it (to the right). The answer? WikiProject Good articles will be launching a Recruitment Centre very soon! The centre will allow all users to be taught how to review Good article nominations by experts just like you! However, in order for the Recruitment Centre to open in the first place, we need some volunteers: Recruiters: The main task of a recruiter is to teach users that have never reviewed a Good article nomination how to review one. To become a recruiter, all you have to do is meet this criteria. If we don't get at least 5-10 recruiters to start off with (at the time this message was sent out, 2 recruiters have volunteered), the Recruitment Centre will not open. If interested, make sure you meet the criteria, read the process and add your name to the list of recruiters. (One of the great things about being a recruiter is that there is no set requirement of what must be taught and when. Instead, all the content found in the process section is a guideline of the main points that should be addressed during a recruitment session...you can also take an entire different approach if you wish!) If you think you will not have the time to recruit any users at this time but are still interested in becoming a recruiter, you can still add your name to the list of recruiters but just fill in the "Status" parameter with "Not Available". Co-Director: The current Director for the centre is me (Dom497). Another user that would be willing to help with some of the tasks would be helpful. Tasks include making sure recruiters are doing what they should be (teaching!), making sure all recruitments are archived correctly, updating pages as needed, answering any questions, and distributing the feedback form. If interested, please contact me (Dom497). Nominators, please read this: If you are not interested in becoming a recruiter, you can still help. In some cases a nominator may have an issue with an "inexperienced" editor (the recruitee) reviewing one of their nominations. To minimize the chances of this happening, if you are fine with a recruitee reviewing one of your nominations under the supervision of the recruiter, please add your name to the list at the bottom of this page. By adding your name to this list, chances are that your nomination will be reviewed more quickly as the recruitee will be asked to choose a nomination from the list of nominators that are OK with them reviewing the article. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me. I look forward to seeing this program bring new reviewers to the Good article community and all the positive things it will bring along. A message will be sent out to all recruiters regarding the date when the Recruitment Centre will open when it is determined. The message will also contain some further details to clarify things that may be a bit confusing.--Dom497 (talk) This message was sent out by --EdwardsBot (talk) 14:49, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 16

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Done. Anotherclown (talk) 11:01, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

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• Facepalm. Anotherclown (talk) 11:10, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXVII, June 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Works on the RNZAF, World War I in the Baltic, and British battleship construction Op-ed: Anchors Aweigh for the Majestic Titans

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TemplateData

Hey Anotherclown

I'm sending you this because you've made quite a few edits to the template namespace in the past couple of months. If I've got this wrong, or if I haven't but you're not interested in my request, don't worry; this is the only notice I'm sending out on the subject :).

So, as you know (or should know - we sent out a centralnotice and several watchlist notices) we're planning to deploy the VisualEditor on Monday, 1 July, as the default editor. For those of us who prefer markup editing, fear not; we'll still be able to use the markup editor, which isn't going anywhere.

What's important here, though, is that the VisualEditor features an interactive template inspector; you click an icon on a template and it shows you the parameters, the contents of those fields, and human-readable parameter names, along with descriptions of what each parameter does. Personally, I find this pretty awesome, and from Monday it's going to be heavily used, since, as said, the VisualEditor will become the default.

The thing that generates the human-readable names and descriptions is a small JSON data structure, loaded through an extension called TemplateData. I'm reaching out to you in the hopes that you'd be willing and able to put some time into adding TemplateData to high-profile templates. It's pretty easy to understand (heck, if I can write it, anyone can) and you can find a guide here, along with a list of prominent templates, although I suspect we can all hazard a guess as to high-profile templates that would benefit from this. Hopefully you're willing to give it a try; the more TemplateData sections get added, the better the interface can be. If you run into any problems, drop a note on the Feedback page.

Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:22, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Hamel

G'day, mate, not sure if you are working on anything, but if you aren't you might be interested in this article: Battle of Hamel. It needs a lot of work, but with a bit of collaboration, it probably wouldn't take much effort to produce something decent. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 07:18, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Available to help

G'day Ac, let me know if you want any help with the post-drive admin. I am definitely not a techhead, but I can add up... Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 08:00, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. Thanks very much for your help with this. Things got a bit busy at work over last few days so I haven't been able to get around to this. Anotherclown (talk) 09:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Haven't done anything yet, and it appears the adding up bit is done. Happy to help with gong distribution as needed. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 09:54, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah yes I see. Cheers nonetheless! Anotherclown (talk) 10:46, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

June 2013 backlog reduction drive

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		By order of the Military history WikiProject coordinators, for your contributions to the WikiProject's June 2013 backlog reduction drive, I hereby award you this Military history WikiProject award. Ian Rose (talk) 13:42, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Ian. Anotherclown (talk) 09:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Cheers.

The highly sought after Coonawarra award
For setting up and running the MILHIST June backlog drive, thanks and well done. Have a drink on me. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 14:18, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks mate. Anotherclown (talk) 09:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

June 2013 Backlog Reduction Drive

Some gratuitous comments from a newbie in projects like this.

Like most who joined in, I focused on the incomplete B class checklists. My experience with the 100 odd I did during the campaign was that most were incomplete because the "system" allows a {{WPMILHIST|class=Start|US=y|Aviation=y}} to be listed. I don't know if this is a feature or a bug, but I found no more than 5-10 articles that actually had entered some values for the B factors (most had a y/n remaining behind). I would support requiring some value to be entered for each factor to avoid an error message, but from the number that contained the "importance" value, I suppose we're dealing with legacy assessments.

Of the checklists I completed, I downgraded one to stub. In the rules, I'd suggest mentioning expressly whether this counts as a completed B checklist or not. (I didn't enter it)

About 5-10 of the articles I completed checklists for wound up with C Class ratings. I don't know how to get around the conflict of interest issues, but it seems to me that this includes an assessment as well as a completion of a checklist and should merit a higher score. Perhaps a mechanism for a second set of eyes with credit for an assessment to each?

Some of the incomplete checklists should not have been there in the first place. I found about a half dozen assesments on redirect pages and two that had companion articles covering all information that would put them in WP:MILHIST. I put the ones I delisted on my list of checklists completed the end and added a note explaing what I did, but it seems to me removing the template is more equivalent to completing an assessment (because the action assesses whether the article should be counted). Worth the same number of points, so more a comment on where to list than anything else.

Timing. The last article I worked on was a grammar issue. I completed it on the 30th and listed it on the articles for assessment on the 30th and it was assessed on the 30th but I didn't add it to my worksheet until the 1st. Perhaps an explanation of this could be in the rules.

Finally a comment on one user's five points. I saw this user's name a number of times on the assessment page -- to the extent that I thought he might be sandbagging and intending to enter a thousand points on June 30th. My personal opinion is that he earned more points than he took credit for. Perhaps he just dropped out of the contest.--Lineagegeek (talk) 23:51, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Some excellent points. There were a number of issues that came up during the drive which probably could be clarified in future versions. Agree - Adam does a lot of work for the project behind the scenes that goes unrecognised. Anotherclown (talk) 21:59, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Some of the incomplete checklists should not have been there in the first place. I found about a half dozen assesments on redirect pages. I'm afraid I rather punished your honesty, Lineagegeek, and discounted them. I was responsible for "delisting" seventy or so expert-attention articles, which took some work checking no reason had been provided at an appropriate stage, and so on, but I didn't claim because I felt that was something rather different to the contest - I then treated cases like yours by analogy. You deserve an additional pat on the back for doing that, I think, but not the points in the contest. In any case, I made it easy enough to change. (Something to clarify in future.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 09:05, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Not a poor map

In regards to this I don't see how it's a poor map at all - it does exactly what it's supposed to do, and is admirably clear. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 00:36, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Cheers Nick - probably my skewed sense of humour (or lack thereof if you ask my wife). Anotherclown (talk) 00:38, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Anyway I saw something Ian did a while back for RAAF article and it inspired me (even ripped off the background from the same map). Anotherclown (talk) 00:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for knocking that one up. Not bad at all. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 01:46, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

for the GA review. --S.G.^(GH) _ping! 13:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

No worries at all. Anotherclown (talk) 09:24, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

AATTV

G'day, mate, do you by any chance have the following books: McNeil (1984) The Team and Lyles (2004) Vietnam Anzacs from Osprey? If so, could you please see if they have anything that can support the "citation needed" tags in the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam article. I think that there might be something on p. 104 in McNeil and p. 54 in Lyles, but I can only see snippet view in Google books so I'm not sure. A new user, User:Laurie nicholson (a former AATTV member), has added some information to the article and I'm trying to help him cite it to reliable sources. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:05, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Yep got both - will do. Anotherclown (talk) 09:29, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. Had a look - both refs have relevant info but most of it is already included with cites already. Probably not a lot a more I can add. Sorry. Anotherclown (talk) 11:07, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, I think Michael Caufield's The Vietnam Years might have something about the uniforms. I was almost certain Lyles had something about it on p. 54, but I must be mistaken. Thanks anyway. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:21, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes there is definitely useful information in Lyles p. 54 there but I think most of it is already covered in the article. Could include it but would probably require rewriting the current article quite a bit. Anotherclown (talk) 09:51, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Fricourt et al.

AC and OzR, can I have an opinion on the structure of the "Other Engagements" for the Somme battle? If I use the same one as I did for Fricourt, I'll be duplicating most of the information in the Background and Prelude sections (I've already overlapped a lot that's in the First day of the Somme page). Can you suggest pages I can look, at to decide the level of detail I should leave in please?Keith-264 (talk) 12:13, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Gday Keith. Another example is Battle of Megiddo (1918). Might provide you with some ideas. Anotherclown (talk) 23:14, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Jackson review

G'day, I've started the GA review for Oliver David Jackson. You can find my initial comments here: Talk:Oliver David Jackson/GA1. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 21:36, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for taking the time with this one. Much appreciated. Anotherclown (talk) 07:36, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Aust-Army-SGT.png

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Aust-Army-SGT.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 01:39, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to delete it as it has been replaced by another user. I've added the {{db-self}} tag. Anotherclown (talk) 07:27, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Gallipoli Campaign

Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know I am glad to be reviewing the article Gallipoli Campaign you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by GA bot, on behalf of Dank -- Dank (talk) 15:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Gallipoli Campaign

The article Gallipoli Campaign you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Gallipoli Campaign for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by GA bot, on behalf of Dank -- Dank (talk) 19:46, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Something for me

I need to write this so I can make sense of it later. This is for me, if you read this I don't care but don't reply. I had a moment of realisation but it was gone before I could understand it. Either I came to see that nothing anyone ever did ever mattered or that everything everyone has ever done was more important than we can ever comprehend. Whatever I came to know in that moment made me sadder than I have ever been before. All those men who gave their lives willingly thought they were doing so for a worthy cause but maybe they were wrong? All their suffering and all their fear, beyond imagination other than what we have suffered and feared ourselves, probably meant nothing. Everything for nothing. Who are we to judge anyone? We shouldn’t think ill of anyone just because they are not us. Each of us unique and irreplaceable, filled with original thought, never to exist again once we are gone, each of us the most important person in the world to someone. Our sacrifice not worth it. Yet we strive to make a difference... to matter. Even if it means pain or death. But we only matter in the minds of men, and the women that love us, and when we are gone, and they too, what then? Anotherclown (talk) 10:29, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Bruce Alexander McDonald

I looked up his funeral notice in the Courier-Mail on microfilm, which thankfully does confirm he is the Major General (my other sources did not say he was an Major General, so there was a small possibility that I had found a man with similar name and age). Because it's 1993, it's copyright so I cannot upload it to Commons or pass it to you via WP in any form (sigh). But I can email you it if it would be useful to you. If so, email me at kerry.raymond@wikimedia.org.au Kerry (talk) 06:27, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for doing this, much appreciated. Looks like you added everything so no need to send the article. Cheers. Anotherclown (talk) 09:42, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Aus Army Officer Insignia

Fantastic! Good work!! Thank you!!! (No more tedious interactions with NFCC pedants!!!!) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:30, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Hopefully. All the best. Anotherclown (talk) 09:37, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXVIII, July 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Nick-D looks at Australia's frontier wars Interview: What Wikimedia chapters can offer military history editors

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
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Your GA nomination of Gallipoli Campaign

The article Gallipoli Campaign you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Gallipoli Campaign for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by GA bot, on behalf of Dank -- Dank (talk) 19:09, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Apr to Jun 2013 Milhist content reviewing

		The WikiChevrons
		By order of the Military History WikiProject coordinators, for your devoted contributions to the WikiProject's Peer, A-Class and Featured Article Candidate reviews for the period Apr-Jun 2013, I am delighted to award you the WikiChevrons. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:11, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks mate. Anotherclown (talk) 09:31, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit summary

Why have you used the edit summary (Undid revision 566702797 by Woody (talk) and added correct publisher? You didn't undo my edit, my edit fixed a broken ref, you can't have "work=" and "newspaper=" parameters in the same reference. I'm sure it wasn't your intention but it rightly or wrongly seems to be implying an error on my part. In any case, the edit summary is misleading in that you haven't undone my edit. Woody (talk) 14:11, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Actually yes I do think you made an error. The publisher is not The Sydney Morning Herald (that clearly is the name of the newspaper), the publisher is Fairfax Media. So I undid your change, deleted work=AAP, and then added the correct publisher in a single edit (hence my edit summary which states exactly that). Pls have a look at the other entries on the article and you will see that it is consistent with those. Anotherclown (talk) 21:34, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Albert

Battle of Albert (1916) I've just finished expanding this and notice that it was already at b-class. Would you mind having a quick look to see what it would take to reach A or Good Article standard please.Keith-264 (talk) 19:45, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Certainly. Anotherclown (talk) 22:56, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

11th Battalion

G'day, I'm currently working on the 11th Battalion (Australia). If you get a chance, can you please check to see if Kuring could be used as a citation for this: "A separate 11th Battalion, Royal Western Australia Regiment was reformed separately in 1967. In 1987, the 11th Battalion was merged with the 28th Battalion to form the current 11th/28th Battalion, Royal Western Australia Regiment"? Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 23:58, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Howdy. Had a look in Kuring but there isn't anything in there I'm afraid. Will have a look and see what else I can find in my other books. Anotherclown (talk) 00:30, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

No luck with my dead tree sources. The RWAR Association website might be a useful source: [8]. Hope it helps. Anotherclown (talk) 00:43, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I found a ref online and have added that now, but if possible I'd prefer a print source. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:45, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Anotherclown (talk) 00:56, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

5/7 Battalion RNZIR

Hi 5/7 Battalion RNZIR is the name of the unit as per the directive that established the unit. Unfortunately 5th/7th would be incorrect. cheers 121.75.84.13 (talk) 11:44, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Rubbish. 5/7 is clearly a truncation of 5th and 7th Bns. Regardless, I agree that "5/7" is common in official documentation but wiki has its own format, so pls respect that. I've already provided you with the a link to demonstrate the precedence for this so change it back pls. Anotherclown (talk) 11:48, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Have a look at WP:MILMOS#UNITNAME for the relevant policy. Anotherclown (talk) 11:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Mate I'll change it back for you but the directive signed by the Chief of Army states 5/7 - that is the official name of the unit as per the policy u have pointed out. I am a member of the unit and it is not known as 5th/7th in any form - never has been and never will be unless he changes his mind! This being the case the page is not correct - over to you but I will change it back for you. Regards 121.75.84.13 (talk) 12:10, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Whatever, we have all served our time. Regardless, wikipolicy clearly states the unit should be presented as "Xth Battalion" per the link I provided. Like I said glad you want to contribute to Wikipedia just use the style guide adopted and there won't be an issue. Anotherclown (talk) 12:22, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Anyway it is clearly presented as "5th/7th Battalion, Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment" on the order of battle published by the NZ MoD here [9]. Anotherclown (talk) 12:38, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Favour

Battle of Verdun would you mind having a quick look to see if the banner can be removed? ThanksKeith-264 (talk) 13:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry Keith, I'm out of town at the moment so I didn't see this request until now. Looks like you've done enough to address the "references req'd" tag to me. I've reassessed it as B class. Good to see an important article like this get some attention. Anotherclown (talk) 11:44, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks mate. It still has many deficiencies but I've managed to find a bit more detail for the bare bones.Keith-264 (talk) 11:59, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXXXIX, August 2013

Your Military History Newsletter Project news: From the editors; awards and honours; contest results Articles: Last month's new Featured and A-Class content Book reviews: Nick-D looks at the death of Osama bin Laden Op-ed: Sturmvogel_66 presents his secrets of prolific contribution

The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
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No. 38 Squadron RAAF FAC

Hi, You reviewed this article when it was at ACR, and if you have time I'd appreciate it if you could consider posting a review in the FAC at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/No. 38 Squadron RAAF/archive1? It's been open for a couple of weeks now and hasn't attracted many comments. Please post a critical review if you don't think that the article is up to scratch! Regards, Nick-D (talk) 04:03, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

No worries Nick. I'll stop by and have a look. I've never really done much reviewing at FAC so I'll have to have a look at a few to see how to do it first. All the best. Anotherclown (talk) 05:16, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Affghanistan - with two "f"s

One learns something new every day. That one snuck up on me and bit me on the bum. Thanks for the info. SonofSetanta (talk) 11:21, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem at all, a very easy mistake to make. Certainly looked like a typo I agree. All the best. Anotherclown (talk) 11:25, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

RAR

G'day, AC, the relevant discussion for removing that image was evidently here Wikipedia:NFCR#File:Royal Aus Regt.JPG. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:23, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - my point is the edit summary used was imprecise and lacked justification, hence I reverted and requested discussion. Anotherclown (talk) 09:41, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

As far as I could tell that "discussion" was opened and closed by the same editor. Indeed most of the image "discussions" seem to be that way. That's not self serving at all... Anotherclown (talk) 09:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. The edit summary could have been clearer if it had linked directly to the discussion. I also agree that it probably would have been better from an oversight point of view if someone independent had closed the discussion. That said, regardless of what I think of the policy personally, it seems like the correct interpretation of NFCC. Probably best to leave it as you haven't got much chance of getting it overturned. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:29, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

I really don't see why so many people who worry about the usage of non-free images also conduct themselves in a rude fashion. A polite note from @Werieth: pointing out the discussion when you reverted their changes would have saved everyone a lot of grief. Posting a warning template below without any attempt at a polite discussion is really bad form. There's a discussion of related issues at WP:ANI#User: Werieth and his bullying reverts.. Nick-D (talk) 10:37, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, I also think that their closure probably violates the closing advice posted at Wikipedia:Non-free content review where it says "Any uninvolved administrator may close a discussion. Non-contentious or withdrawn discussions that do not require the deletion of a file may be closed by other editors in a manner consistent with Wikipedia:Non-admin closure." As they nominated the images, they would seeminly be "involved". Having said that the interpretation is probably correct so it's probably best just to drop it as it only serves to reduce editorial enjoyment and increase stress. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. I've just mentioned you in that ANI thread by the way. On a happier note, you might be interested to note that the website of the Governor-General has recently re-licensed all of its content under a Wikipedia friendly Creative Commons license. It doesn't take too much digging through the archives of the current and previous GGs events to find photos of them on significant occasions with military units and service personnel. I imagine that this would be helpful in contributing to fixing the under-illustration of the articles on Army units. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 11:01, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks gents. Will take your advice and move on. Frys my soul because this bloke is dodgy but I guess no one is few are prepared to call him on it. Anotherclown (talk) 11:20, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

BTW Nick I saw your post elsewhere about this so was probably a to general in my whinge above (it certainly wasn't directed at either yourself or AR). More than most you do your best in these areas. Kind regards. Anotherclown (talk) 03:25, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia. We always appreciate when users upload new images. However, it appears that one or more of the images you have recently uploaded or added to an article may fail our non-free image policy. Most often, this involves editors uploading or using a copyrighted image of a living person. For other possible reasons, please read up on our Non-free image criteria. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Werieth (talk) 10:11, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

How dare you warn another editor for having a contrary opinion to you. I disagreed with a series of edits you made because you failed to provide a detailed edit summary, hence I reverted and requested a discussion per WP:BRD. Without discussing you reverted again. Meanwhile, another user had to provide a link to the "discussion" I presume you are relying on to support these edits, yet on reviewing the link the "discussion" was clearly opened by you, had only a few comments and no consensus, and was then closed by you to support the outcome you were seeking. I then challenge you to justify your edit and you threaten me. Sounds reasonable. Anotherclown (talk) 11:03, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

A Class review in progress for Werner Voss

Hello,

I believe I have dealt with the issues you questioned, though admittedly the formality of unit names is still an open issue. Please check to see if I have adequately addressed your concerns.

Thank you for volunteering to assess this article.

Georgejdorner (talk) 17:39, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

• Gday George. Was in the process of writing a few comments on the review when it was closed. Congratulations on it passing BTW. Anyway a couple of responses:
  • Re unit names I still think this is incorrect. MOS compliance is a key criteria for GA, A and FA. Not really sure what more to say about this (not really relevant as the review passed I admit).
  • It is the same book - note the ISBN. Think you are right though Worldcat may actually be in error about the author. The main point I'm trying to make is there is no need to write the volume and the series title twice. I have made this edit now anyway.
  • The crux of the issue b/n books and website is that the publishing process usually requires scrutiny of a work by editors, reviewers and academics etc, while publishing on a website does not.
  • Anyway all the best. Anotherclown (talk) 22:20, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Cornplanter as a Commander at the Battle of Devil's Hole

Please see my talk note for this article. I am curious if Cornplanter was in the campaignbox before you changed it to an infobox. I couldn't find Cornplanter mentioned in the Devil's Hole article and no mention of the battle on Cornplanter's article. I also checked some external sources - I was unable to find any mention of him being there during the battle. If no record can be found, I will delete him from the infobox. MacEachan1 (talk) 06:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)MacEachan1

Cornplanter as a Commander at the Battle of Devil's Hole

Please see my talk note for this article. I am curious if Cornplanter was in the campaignbox before you changed it to an infobox. I couldn't find Cornplanter mentioned in the Devil's Hole article and no mention of the battle on Cornplanter's article. I also checked external sources - he was never mentioned as having been there during the battle. If no record can be found, I will delete him from the info. MacEachan1 (talk) 06:52, 14 September 2013 (UTC)MacEachan1