Talk:Barack Obama: Difference between revisions
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Somchai Sun (talk | contribs) →Article is self-contradicting: Sorry, I have to close this - don't feed the trolls, and make sure you eat plenty of cake. |
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Generalisations of a religious bigot countered by generalisations that make no distinction of Old and New Testament. Classy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/91.145.121.151|91.145.121.151]] ([[User talk:91.145.121.151|talk]]) 14:59, 19 October 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
Generalisations of a religious bigot countered by generalisations that make no distinction of Old and New Testament. Classy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/91.145.121.151|91.145.121.151]] ([[User talk:91.145.121.151|talk]]) 14:59, 19 October 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Obama catches pregnant woman == |
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Watch and read the story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/10395183/Barack-Obama-catches-fainting-pregnant-woman-during-Obamacare-speech.html |
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I would say this is significant, historical event. Should be included in the main article, embed the video also! |
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Revision as of 17:20, 22 October 2013
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Barack Obama article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Frequently asked questions
Family and religious background Q1: Why isn't Barack Obama's Muslim heritage or education included in this article?
A1: Barack Obama was never a practitioner of Islam. His biological father having been "raised as a Muslim" but being a "confirmed atheist" by the time Obama was born is mentioned in the article. Please see this article on Snopes.com for a fairly in-depth debunking of the myth that Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama did not attend an Islamic or Muslim school while living in Indonesia age 6–10, but Roman Catholic and secular public schools. See [1], [2], [3] The sub-articles Public image of Barack Obama and Barack Obama religion conspiracy theories address this issue. Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial", "mixed", "Kenyan-American", "mulatto", "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa", a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American". Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body. Q3: Why can't we use his full name outside of the lead? It's his name, isn't it?
A3: The relevant part of the Manual of Style says that outside the lead of an article on a person, that person's conventional name is the only one that's appropriate. (Thus one use of "Richard Milhous Nixon" in the lead of Richard Nixon, "Richard Nixon" thereafter.) Talk page consensus has also established this. Q4: Why is Obama referred to as "Barack Hussein Obama II" in the lead sentence rather than "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr."? Isn't "Jr." more common?
A4: Although "Jr." is typically used when a child shares the name of his or her parent, "II" is considered acceptable, as well. And in Obama's case, the usage on his birth certificate is indeed "II", and is thus the form used at the beginning of this article, per manual of style guidelines on names. Q5: Why don't we cover the claims that Obama is not a United States citizen, his birth certificate was forged, he was not born in Hawaii, he is ineligible to be President, etc?
A5: The Barack Obama article consists of an overview of major issues in the life and times of the subject. The controversy over his eligibility, citizenship, birth certificate etc is currently a fairly minor issue in overall terms, and has had no significant legal or mainstream political impact. It is therefore not currently appropriate for inclusion in an overview article. These claims are covered separately in Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories. Controversies, praise, and criticism Q6: Why isn't there a criticisms/controversies section?
A6: Because a section dedicated to criticisms and controversies is no more appropriate than a section dedicated solely to praise and is an indication of a poorly written article. Criticisms/controversies/praises should be worked into the existing prose of the article, per the Criticism essay. Q7: Why isn't a certain controversy/criticism/praise included in this article?
A7: Wikipedia's Biography of living persons policy says that "[c]riticism and praise of the subject should be represented if it is relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone." Criticism or praise that cannot be reliably sourced cannot be placed in a biography. Also, including everything about Obama in a single article would exceed Wikipedia's article size restrictions. A number of sub-articles have been created and some controversies/criticisms/praises have been summarized here or been left out of this article altogether, but are covered in some detail in the sub-articles. Q8: But this controversy/criticism/praise is all over the news right now! It should be covered in detail in the main article, not buried in a sub-article!
A8: Wikipedia articles should avoid giving undue weight to something just because it is in the news right now. If you feel that the criticism/controversy/praise is not being given enough weight in this article, you can try to start a discussion on the talk page about giving it more. See WP:BRD. Q9: This article needs much more (or much less) criticism/controversy.
A9: Please try to assume good faith. Like all articles on Wikipedia, this article is a work in progress so it is possible for biases to exist at any point in time. If you see a bias that you wish to address, you are more than welcome to start a new discussion, or join in an existing discussion, but please be ready to provide sources to support your viewpoint and try to keep your comments civil. Starting off your discussion by accusing the editors of this article of having a bias is the quickest way to get your comment ignored. Talk and article mechanics Q10: This article is over 275kb long, and the article size guideline says that it should be broken up into sub-articles. Why hasn't this happened?
A10: The restriction mentioned in WP:SIZE is 60kB of readable prose, not the byte count you see when you open the page for editing. As of May 11, 2016, this article had about 10,570 words of readable prose (65 kB according to prosesize tool), only slightly above the guideline. The rest is mainly citations and invisible comments, which do not count towards the limit. Q11: I notice this FAQ mentions starting discussions or joining in on existing discussions a lot. If Wikipedia is supposed to be the encyclopedia anyone can edit, shouldn't I just be bold and fix any biases that I see in the article?
A11: It is true that Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and no one needs the permission of other editors of this article to make changes to it. But Wikipedia policy is that, "While the consensus process does not require posting to the discussion page, it can be useful and is encouraged." This article attracts editors that have very strong opinions about Obama (positive and negative) and these editors have different opinions about what should and should not be in the article, including differences as to appropriate level of detail. As a result of this it may be helpful, as a way to avoid content disputes, to seek consensus before adding contentious material to or removing it from the article. Q12: The article/talk page has been vandalized! Why hasn't anyone fixed this?
A12: Many editors watch this article, and it is unlikely that vandalism would remain unnoticed for long. It is possible that you are viewing a cached result of the article; If so, try bypassing your cache. Q13: Why are so many discussions closed so quickly?
A13: Swift closure is common for topics that have already been discussed repeatedly, topics pushing fringe theories, and topics that would lead to violations of Wikipedia's policy concerning biographies of living persons, because of their disruptive nature and the unlikelihood that consensus to include the material will arise from the new discussion. In those cases, editors are encouraged to read this FAQ for examples of such common topics. Q14: I added new content to the article, but it was removed!
A14: Double-check that your content addition is not sourced to an opinion blog, editorial, or non-mainstream news source. Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons states, in part, "Material about living persons must be sourced very carefully. Without reliable third-party sources, it may include original research and unverifiable statements, and could lead to libel claims." Sources of information must be of a very high quality for biographies. While this does not result in an outright ban of all blogs and opinion pieces, most of them are regarded as questionable. Inflammatory or potentially libelous content cited to a questionable source will be removed immediately without discussion. Q15: I disagree with the policies and content guidelines that prevent my proposed content from being added to the article.
A15: That's understandable. Wikipedia is a work in progress. If you do not approve of a policy cited in the removal of content, it's possible to change it. Making cogent, logical arguments on the policy's talk page is likely to result in a positive alteration. This is highly encouraged. However, this talk page is not the appropriate place to dispute the wording used in policies and guidelines. If you disagree with the interpretation of a policy or guideline, there is also recourse: Dispute resolution. Using the dispute resolution process prevents edit wars, and is encouraged. Q16: I saw someone start a discussion on a topic raised by a blog/opinion piece, and it was reverted!
A16: Unfortunately, due to its high profile, this talk page sees a lot of attempts to argue for policy- and guideline-violating content – sometimes the same violations many times a day. These are regarded as disruptive, as outlined above. Consensus can change; material previously determined to be unacceptable may become acceptable. But it becomes disruptive and exhausting when single-purpose accounts raise the same subject(s) repeatedly in the apparent hopes of overcoming significant objections by other editors. Editors have reached a consensus for dealing with this behavior:
Other Q17: Why aren't the 2008 and 2012 presidential campaigns covered in more detail?
A17: They are, in sub-articles called Barack Obama 2008 presidential campaign and Barack Obama 2012 presidential campaign. Things that are notable in the context of the presidential campaigns, but are of minimal notability to Barack Obama's overall biography, belong in the sub-articles. Campaign stops, the presidential debates, and the back-and-forth accusations and claims of the campaigns can all be found there. |
| This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
 | This page is about a politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. For that reason, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
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Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80 81, 82, 83 |
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Special discussion pages: |
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This page has archives. Sections older than 10 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
Energy policy
Article of president without views of energy in the United States is in my opinion not complete. It will influence the future of mankind. Keystone XL pipeline was actual. [4] I can make the issue more complete with the arguments of the Petroleum exploration in the Arctic. Watti Renew (talk) 16:45, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- This isn't an article about the President, this is an article about Barack Obama. The article about the President is Presidency of Barack Obama. RNealK (talk) 04:30, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Barack Soetero
Barack Soetero has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.131.217 (talk) 23:04, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Unexpected archive
I'm really wondering why you archived the previous page, why archive 78 is so short. My only guess is that the real reson is the unpleasant topic about the Government shutdown. Please keep wikipedia policy and standard rules, just checked the previous archived talk pages here and every one of them was much longer. Moreover what I have found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page this says that: "The talk page guidelines suggest archiving when the talk page exceeds 75 KB or has more than 10 main topics." We were very far from these points, only 1 main topic (about government shutdown), and its size was 4560 bytes, so less than 5 KB (or 9494 bytes if we count the closed topic also, but in this case also we would be still under 10 KB). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.83.204.99 (talk) 08:43, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
- My guess after viewing the history of this page is that threads older than 7 days are archived automatically, as most recently with this automatic edit: [5]. I also guess that this is because this talkpage often have a lot more discussion, so frequent automatic archiving is often helpful. I think archive 78 will still be added to, so it will get bigger. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:59, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
Reader feedback: I was very dissapointed when...
71.40.207.2 posted this comment on 16 October 2012 (view all feedback).
I was very dissapointed when I looked at the personal information box and realized it didn't say his salary. My friends and I are very curious and want to fix this.
Any thoughts?
Industrialisation (talk) 01:41, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#Compensation
- If you are asking if info about Obama's salary should be included here I would say no since this is an article about Obama himself so his salary would be a trivial inclusion.--174.95.109.219 (talk) 02:25, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
- While salary in some cases is shown in Wikipedia biographies, it seems less personally relevant here. As noted, it is shown on the general President of the United States article. Unlike executive salaries, it is not a subject of negotiation before taking the job or when other offers come along, and it can't even purport to be tied to job performance, since it can't be changed while Obama's in office. Fat&Happy (talk) 02:41, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Article is self-contradicting
| WP:NOTAFORUM :) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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In one section of this article, reference is made to the fact that Mr. Obama publicly supports same-sex marriage. In another section, the article states that he claims to be a devout Christian. This is contradictory. One cannot be a devout Christian and support same sex marriage; devout Christians follow the Bible, and the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin. Please change one of these statements. 173.49.201.12 (talk) 01:23, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
Generalisations of a religious bigot countered by generalisations that make no distinction of Old and New Testament. Classy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.145.121.151 (talk) 14:59, 19 October 2013 (UTC) |
Obama catches pregnant woman
Watch and read the story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/10395183/Barack-Obama-catches-fainting-pregnant-woman-during-Obamacare-speech.html
I would say this is significant, historical event. Should be included in the main article, embed the video also!
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