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September 10

is there any reason why "I, robot" and "Watch dogs" plays in Chicago?

I have seen two more hacker movies (I can´t remember the name) and I have also played yet once a video game on the PS1 in my life which was also about machines and IT and it was also "based" in Chicago. Does this City is "more dangerous" for cyber-hacker-war or Sc-Fi-Machine Technology than the silicon valley were quiet every high tech company have their residence? If I am good at remembering, Terminator and Robocop is also based in Chicago. I get the feeling that this City would be the first in the future with flying cars or high tech robotic, because of this movies.. But the problem is, I don´t see any company in Chicago what would be able to make "I, robot" or this other movies and video games REAL. And you?--Motorolakzrz (talk) 03:06, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Many films and TV shows are set in or filmed in Chicago; as a major American urban center it can serve as both a real setting (as in, the film or TV show is literally set in Chicago, like the TV show ER or the film Barbershop) or as a location for films where the actual city is not named; or sometimes as a stand-in for another city, as in films like Payback. Each film production staff, including writers, directors, and producers, act independently, in choosing filming locations and settings for their film and there is no "grand plan" to use Chicago for specific purposes. For every film, TV show, or game with a futuristic setting set in Chicago, there's an equal number set in other famous cities, such as Blade Runner set in Los Angeles, or A.I. Artificial Intelligence set in New York. --Jayron32 03:45, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

see this and this

I would surmise that Chicago was chosen for these stories based on the idea of Chicago having a large economy and industry along with all the corruption that occurs there. Void burn (talk) 03:47, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Robocop was set in Detroit and Terminator in LA. Rmhermen (talk) 03:59, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Detroit and Chicago is quiet the same...(Or isn´t it? Central north states of USA?) And I have watched the Trailers of Blade Runner and A.I. Artificial Intelligence, both may have some kind of robotic and virtual intelligence but this 2 movies are not equal to watch dogs, I,robot or the other movies where is shown Chicago in the future and where is shown what bad can happen. --Jebactegojwbe (talk) 04:29, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

People from those respective cities may object to your characterization. They are not at all the same. --Jayron32 09:48, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

True, they are very different. But there are more similarities cetween Chicago and Detroit than there are between either of them and New York or Los Angeles.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 16:12, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

By what criteria? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:56, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Alphabetically, apparently. Otherwise, I can't come up with any. Economics, local industries, settlement patterns, ethnic groups, local culture, recent trends, etc. I can't come up with anything more similar than "large American cities". Chicago has much more in common with NY than Detroit, if you ask me, in terms of how it is built, how it works, what its economy and ethnic make up looks like, etc. --Jayron32 19:58, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

In the original I, Robot stories by Isaac Asimov, the company U.S. Robots and Mechanical Men, Inc. had premises in various US, and ultimately World, locations. One of them was explicitly in Schenectady, New York, but the others' locations are not specified, so Chicago is not inconsistent with the canon. The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 185.74.232.130 (talk) 13:40, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Sure, and some of them also take place other planets and space stations. One of my favorites, Runaround_(story), takes place on Mercury. As far as I could tell the movie seemed to have very little to do with any of the stories in the collection... SemanticMantis (talk) 17:32, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, of course. They're following the First Law of Hollywood Adaptations: A screenwriter must mangle a book and, through their action, cause the book's reputation to come to harm. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:29, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

The movie was originally called "Hardwired" and had nothing to do with Asimov. They rebranded it after Fox got the movie rights to I, Robot, but they barely changed the story. There's some more information here. -- BenRG (talk) 23:34, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Schenectady was, of course, a standing joke in the Golden Age of SF - Asimov and, I think, Fred Pohl, would be asked by their fans where they got the ideas for their stories from, and would reply "a post office box in Schenectady" which they would write to when they wanted inspiration. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 17:37, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

But will Chicago be the city where the future with robotic, flying cars and this all will start or was Chicago only abused for this games and videos and in fact there is no scienes projects or any high technlogy company what would be able to make I, robot or watch dogs real? --Motorolakzrz (talk) 03:11, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Neither. You've, in your own head, invented this notion of the association of "Chicago = futuristic" based on a very limited number of data points (that is, there's a small number of games and movies that you like, that happen to be set in Chicago and are also futuristic) but this doesn't mean anything. Your personal experience is not a universal, and when one looks at all media, Chicago does not stand out as such a setting. I've lived in Chicago. It's a fantastic city. But there's nothing about it in particular that would make it a center for high technology (You'd be better off with the Bay Area, Route 128 outside Boston, Northern Virginia, or the Research Triangle Park as places where major high-tech innovation happens. But that's not really the crux of your problem here. The issue is that you're asking us a question based on a false premise. You've invented an idea on spotty evidence, and now you're asking us to prove your idea correct. We can't do that. --Jayron32 11:07, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

housing violation

the city of toledo ohio sent me a citation for a housing violation .... i asked them who was the person that called the city of toledo ....??? their response was they didn`t know ????? i explain to them there must be phone records ???? they just acted dumb...!!!!!!! is there any way i can fill out paper work to find out ...??? I believe this is personal ????

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.241.202.86 (talk) 19:14, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

I have removed your phone number and name. it's generally a bad idea to share your phone number on a public website, particularly one like wikipedia where once it's been here for a while it's very difficult to permanently remove. Also there's no reason to do so, as no one here is going to call you to help you. You may want to consider the similar implications for your name too. Nil Einne (talk) 19:47, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

We are not allowed to answer legal questions here, but it would not be surprising if the city had a policy of not revealing the names of Whistleblowers. They want people to report problems so that these issues can be corrected and people are more inclined to fulfill their civic duty if their anonymity can be assured. My local Homeowner association has a policy of not even asking for the names of people who report violations - specifically so that their anonymity is guaranteed. SteveBaker (talk) 02:49, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

On the flipside, a standard concept in due process is that people accused of a crime are afforded the inalienable right to face their accuser. People cannot be deprived of life, liberty, or property without proper legal due process, and someone does have the right to face those testifying against them to cross-examine them and their evidence. Anonymous evidence of this sort is not usually allowable in American jurisprudence. In fact, it's a guaranteed Constitutional right under the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution. See Confrontation Clause. --Jayron32 02:55, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

In a case like this, the "accuser" is the city, not the person who reported the infraction. I don't imagine the city would send out a citation without first checking the facts - so the city presumably sent out some kind of inspector or case worker to see the infraction for themselves - and THAT person is your "accuser" - who of course you could cross-examine if their evidence was presented in some kind of a courtroom. The person who first reported it is uninvolved at that point. SteveBaker (talk) 18:00, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Note to the OP however, it's unclear whether you're referring to anonymous evidence or accusations. As BB has mentioned, "housing violation" is unclear.

For example, if someone reported you as having carried out illegal renovations, the city went to your house and saw that you were clearly carrying out renovations which would require approval and examined their approvals and determined none were granted, it probably doesn't really matter who reported you and in probably most particular jurisdictions there is no particular reason why you would have the right to know who reported you. In fact, they wouldn't even necessarily need to check the situation out yourself. If they sufficiently trust the complainant, then they may just assume they are telling the truth. If the complainant was lying, you can tell them you never carried out any illegal renovations, and they will then need some evidence so will probably visit your house themselves. And it isn't uncommon you are responsible for ensuring your house is up to the legal requirements, so if even if you try to argue it was a previous owner who carried out the renovations, it can irrelevant to the council or other authority as long as your property isn't compliant. (Grandfather clauses and similar may confuse things, and also if there are additional penalties if you were the one who authorised the renovations.)

Similarly for a noise complaintm although in that case they will normally need to check it out themselves at the time.

Criminal cases would often be similar. For example, if someone anonymously reports a rape, and the police either interrupt the rape or find the victim who makes a complaint, there is no reason why the reporters identity would need to be known. It may help if there is dispute over the identity of the perpetrator or whether a rape occurred, but the case could proceed with whatever evidence is available without the anonymous report having any real relevance, other than it happened.

Similar situation for domestic violence etc.

Ultimately, whether or not the person reporting had a personal grudge against you is largely a moot point if there's independent evidence you broke the law. It will only come up if the reporter's evidence is need to establish your guilty, rather than just being something that happened.

Nil Einne (talk) 07:02, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I probably should add that, more controversially, in some cases an authority may simply assume most people aren't going to challenge the claim. For stuff like violating rubbish sorting rules, garden watering limitations or even some noise complaints, these will often have to be checked out quickly, or may be it will even be too late by the time they can realisticly get to the property. So it may not be worth their time indepedently investigating.

However they may still not expect the witness to testify if it is challenged. Instead if it's simply one or two complaints never repeated, they may just drop the case. (If they get more complaints, they'll probably be less willing to just let it slide.) Even if it's a civil case, and the standards of evidence are different (e.g. no assumption of innocence), an actual court case may not be considered worth their time.

And whatever the motivations of the complainant, they may not be willing to be identified let alone go to court. Even if they are genuinely annoyed with the behaviour, they'll probably consider a court case a waste of their time. Also, if it's a neigbour they complained about as it often may be, whatever their existing relationship, letting them know you complained would generally worsen it.

From the authorities POV, they'll probab;y hope in most genuine cases the perpetrator simply pays the fine (or whatever) and non genuine cases will be rare and the person will challenge it. (Realisticly, some people despite not having done what was said may not bother to challenge for a variety of reasons, and some people who are guilty of whatever it is are going to challenge.)

Note in particularly, if it's a well run authority, they will probably care less whether the complainant had a grudge than whether the report was true.

Also just to repeat what was said by others at the beginning, none of this is legal advice. I have no idea about, and don't want to know about your actual situation, or the policies and laws of the Toledo or Ohio that specifically deal with disputes of this sort. This also means I don't know what evidence may exist against you, or what is likely to happen as a result of the complaint. My point was simply to emphasise that just because you have a right to confront your accuser in court doesn't mean any authority has any legal requirement to tell you who made a house violation complaint against. Nor does it mean that any case which originated from the complaint is without merit.

Nil Einne (talk) 13:23, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

What you note is true, but there is a difference between "person X witnesses a crime and reports it to authorities, who themselves then go witness the same crime" versus "person X witnesses a crime, and is the only witness to said crime, but refuses to allow themselves to be identified". In the first case, the authorities are also witnesses to the crime, and so their willing to stand and be identified as witnesses against the defendant is sufficient: they would testify what they saw, and would stand for cross-examination. The second scenario would be inadmissable: if the only witness to a crime refuses to stand up to scrutiny in a court of law, then how can their testimony be counted as reliable? --Jayron32 16:45, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I agree, that was the point I was trying to make. There are cases when they don't need the information from the complainant for any court case, this was what my first comment focused on.

But to avoid dispute from people who felt I was being too generous to housing authorities, I also later made the second comment namely there are also cases when the complainants' testimony may very well be needed but is uncertain, or at least it's all they actually have when they issue the citation. I was trying to acknowledge while second part may be more controversial, it probably isn't unheard of in these sort of things in some places. If there is simply two or three complaints, which the authority believes to be true, they may simple issue a citation, with the expectation that most people who are at fault will just pay the fine or whatever it is.

If it's challenged, they may consider what evidence they have, e.g. whether they are now able to independently gather evidence, whether the witnesses will testify etc. Alternatively and probably more for commonly for minor things where it will be difficult for them to find independent evidence, they may simply drop the case, not considering it worth their time to pursue further based on only a few complaints for what they may consider a relatively minor thing. Because of the unlikelihood they will ever use it, they may now always even bother to try and get proper records of the reporter. (They'll probably consider the reluctance of such people to testify, the likelyhood people won't report if they feel they may be compelled to testify etc.) Alternatively, perhaps they plan to ensure the complainants are willing to be witnesses, but often don't do this properly in practice

This is perhaps where there's a big difference between criminal cases, and housing violations and other such civil things. With criminal cases it's generally accepted that in theory anyway you can't bring a case if you don't resonably believe you have evidence that will stand up in court. With housing violations, it's probably far more common, whether or not it's legally acceptable, that such citations are issued without sufficient consideration of whether it will stand up in court. There is a related difference here, whereas a criminal case will generally always need to go to court for any action, even if it's simply a guilty plea and sentencing, the citation will generally only go if challenged.

(There are other cases where differences may come up. E.g. the possibility differing standards of evidence and possible lack of assumption of innocence may mean you can't simply ask the authority to prove it. Instead if they have some evidence, you may at least have to testify. So either be willing to lie, or tell the truth, as the case may be.)

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not saying anonymous testimony is generally accepted in courts for any case. Rather that anonymous testimony only definitely comes up if it actually gets to court.

Also I'm not saying this applies everywhere, in some places they will definitely require either existing independent evidence (i.e. they themselves witness the violation), or complainants willing to testify if it becomes necessary.

(There are of course other possible complexities I didn't mention, e.g. photographs or videos.)

Nil Einne (talk) 13:49, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by a "housing violation"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:52, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

A housing violation could be many things. Things get even more strict with a HOA or Home Owners Association. Housing violations may include eyesores, poorly maintained housing, abandoned vehicles in the yard, using your home as a boarding house without proper permits, etc. I had a friend in college who, in high school, kept getting letters from the town because his neighbors thought that his car was abandoned. It was a 1950 Dodge and this was in about 1997 or so. The car ran. He rebuilt it himself. But he didn't drive it to school, so it would sit for the whole week without moving. The calls eventually stopped when his father, a lawyer, sent a letter to the town. Dismas|^(talk) 21:48, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

• I was going to answer this last night, but figured it bordered on legal advice. So first, the OP should contact Division of Code Enforcement

Cindy Geronimo, Commissioner 419.936.2363

Dennis Kennedy, Manager, Administrative Services 419.245.1234

James Stvartak, Chief General Inspector 419.936.3611

One Government Center, Suite 1600

Toledo, Ohio 43604

Main Phone: 419.245.1400

Fax: 419.245.1413

They will be able to tell him how to contest a citation if he wishes. There may be some form of legal aid, and of course the OP should contact a lawyer if necessary.

As for municipal citations in general, and none of this may apply in your case, we do not know, they are almost always issued by a citing officer, whose signature, for instance, would appear on a speeding ticket for a driving violation. This is normally the person who will appear in court as having witnessed the evidence upon which the citation was written: not any person who may have called a tip line to lodge a complaint.

The right to face one's accuser, as Jayron mentioned above, applies to questioning the plaintiff and his witnesses or evidence at trial. Since housing citations are usually issued by housing inspectors or officers who are trained to determine if your, e.g., unmowed lawn, illegal tree house, illegal tenant, broken sidewalk, etc., is in violation of code, that officer alone will normally be your accuser.

Unless you are being sued by your neighbour, or accused of a crime, rather than a code violation, you will only see the officer who wrote the ticket. Again, this may all vary by local practice. Expecting to find out who narked you out is most likely a lost cause, but you can expect the citing officer to appear in court if you contest the citation according to the time sensitive terms for disputing the citation normally found with instructions on the ticket itself. μηδείς (talk) 16:33, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Office Related Query

We do not answer requests for legal advice
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
An assistant manager with a state government owned company in india has been given verbal order in a meeting by the senior manager of the department that he is to follow the verbal instruction or order of another assistant manager because he has joined 5 years earlier and is thus senior and he must not approach the senior manager for orders.He has been verbally put under the assistant manager who has been verbally designated as Team Leader . However the assistant managers was official joining report required to report to GM/DGM.Also had very badly humiliated for copying engineering manuals for self study whereas laws like Right to Information etc are extant.How to respond to this >is the assistant manager wrong — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ichgab (talk • contribs) 19:50, 10 September 2015 (UTC) An assistant manager with a state government owned company in india has been given verbal order in a meeting by the senior manager of the department that he is to follow the verbal instruction or order of another assistant manager because he has joined 5 years earlier and is thus senior and he must not approach the senior manager for order. He has been verbally put under the assistant manager who has been verbally designated as Team Leader. However the assistant managers was official joining report required to report to GM/DGM. Also had very badly humiliated for copying engineering manuals for self study whereas laws like Right to Information etc are extant.How to respond to this >is the assistant manager wrong Ichgab (talk) 19:56, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Parney Albright's middle name

Looking for the middle name of Parney Albright. Not super important or anything, would be nice to have though PixelatedVolume (talk) 22:39, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

September 11

Collection agency Debt Collector EOS Group (Inkasso based in Germany) in Sicily and Albania.. who can help?

I have read an article in the newspaper that the bill collect office EOS is very good at getting money inside of Albania and Sicily. It is called the best bill collector locally in this 2 countries. (I don´t even know how this is rated if one is good if one is bad) I couldn´t find out their names what they use in Sicily or Albania but I got very interested, what kind of methods they use. Don´t understand me wrong, but when I hear Albania or Sicily I first have to think of the mafia. It is just a fact that this countries are full with mafia. I don´t speak any Sicilian or Albanian, so I can´t really google or find out more about this company and their practice locally, so I would like to ask you, if you have maybe more luck thank I while finding out some informations about this company. --ZinssätzigeTargobank (talk) 03:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Is it as easy in the USA and Great Britain to open a bill collect office as in Germany? Collection agency, aka Debt Collector

I have read that in germany to open an office like that is only needed:

• having 25 Years
• no problems with any police or government
• not needed any law degree or something like that (!), you can open the office, no one check out if you have any experience with law and rights it is not even needed a graduation of any school, you could have visited your whole life a special school or a school for disabled, its fine. Absolutely fine. (!)
• paying 50 Euros to the Trade Office for having it officially and 500 Euros more a State approval. (I think only throw away garbage is as easy as this)

Is it also easy in Britain and the USA? kind regards, --ZinssätzigeTargobank (talk) 03:35, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

As an aging GB resident, I don't recognise the term "bill collect agency". Do you mean a Collection agency, aka Debt Collector? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 185.74.232.130 (talk) 13:37, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes!! Collection agency, aka Debt Collector--ZinssätzigeTargobank (talk) 19:58, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Well-educated financial failures

It is a truism that education tends to set one up for success in life, but I am wondering how often education isn't enough. How often do people who have earned advanced credentials (e.g. Masters, Doctors) end up doing poorly financially, e.g. below average income or even living below the poverty line? I am most interested in statistics from the US, but stats from other countries might also be informative. Dragons flight (talk) 12:24, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Be wary of mixing Premisees. The word Education come from the latin Educare: meaning drawing out. Many people who receive advanced qualifications have just been 'schooled'. Have had their head filled with facts, figures and methods yet have received little or no 'drawing out' with which to understand the world around them and their part in it. Henry Ford only had a little schooling but he was brought up educated, in a way that he could think for himself.--Aspro (talk) 13:03, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

If you have an alternative measure of education (or even intelligence / aptitude) that you can usefully compare to income later in life, feel free to offer those statistics as well. Dragons flight (talk) 13:08, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Don't have any statistics but are sister Wikiversity project helps to explain some of the alternatives: Ivan Illich: Deschooling Society.--Aspro (talk) 13:24, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Some of us would say "our" sister project. Yet I expect you make a good living. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:58, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know all the details, but reading about Grigori_Perelman's life situation may be an interesting example. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

If you remove the concept of education and ask only about the degrees, you can ask: Do people who receive at least a Masters degree perform financially better than those who do not? On average, yes. It will be trivial to find anecdotes that go against this. Compare Eminem to the Unabomber. Neither of those anecdotes is normal. It is rare for someone who has difficulty forming complete sentences to make millions of dollars as a musician. It is rare for someone who has a PhD in mathematics to throw away his income, live in a shack, and get off on mailing bombs to people. Just remember, the plural of anecdote is not data. 209.149.115.219 (talk) 18:49, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Googling the phrase correlation education income brings up tons of links, including scholarly ones such as this one from JSTOR. Be aware, however, that some of the links are about related fields, like how income influences access to education. Here's an interesting article regarding the situation in Canada titled The High Education / Low Income Paradox: College and University Graduates with Low Earnings, Ontario, 2006. 99.235.223.170 (talk) 12:47, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Error in title when searching Mychal Judge

When you search for Fr. Mychal Judge, the search results on the right side of the page say Mychal Judge "Actor". Fr. Judge was a Catholic priest and the NYFD chaplain. He died in the line of duty at the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001. To refer to a man of God and a hero of Sept. 11 as an actor seems rather disrespectful.

This reference to actor goes away when you click the link and go to the Wikipedia page. I hope this can be corrected.

Thank you173.27.100.66 (talk) 18:50, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Are you by any chance referring to a photo or text shown to the right of a Google search? Google's Knowledge Graph uses a wide variety of sources. There may be a text paragraph ending with "Wikipedia" to indicate that particular text was copied from Wikipedia. An image and other text before or after the Wikipedia excerpt may be from sources completely unrelated to Wikipedia. We have no control over how Google presents our information, but Google's Knowledge Graph has a "Feedback" link where anyone can mark a field as wrong. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:13, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Searches for both <Fr. Mychal Judge> and the more simple <Mychal Judge> both return images and a description of the priest when I try them. Dismas|^(talk) 21:42, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

A Yahoo search says "Actor". Such reports have always been about Google before but Yahoo has apparently copied their knowledge graph, including the confusing layout which makes people think everything is taken from Wikipedia. They also copied Google's "Feedback" link so the advice still works. I have made {{HD/YKG}} as a Yahoo version of the Google {{HD/GKG}}. I don't know whether Yahoo's version has an official name so I just called it a Yahoo box:

Are you by any chance referring to a photo or text shown in a box to the right of a Yahoo search? Such Yahoo boxes use a wide variety of sources. There may be a text paragraph ending with "Wikipedia" to indicate that particular text was copied from Wikipedia. An image and other text before or after the Wikipedia excerpt may be from sources completely unrelated to Wikipedia. We have no control over how Yahoo presents our information, but a Yahoo box has a "Feedback" link where anyone can mark a field as wrong.

PrimeHunter (talk) 01:29, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

According to the IMDB, Mychal Judge has appeared in four movies. They were all documentaries (he appeared in archive footage), so he wasn't acting, but you can how the fact that someone has appeared in a movie might be confused with him being an actor. --65.95.178.150 (talk) 03:47, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Bad links

Good Afternoon,

I attended the ALA conference over the summer. Wikipedia had a booth and was giving out information. On one of the flyers I was given the link is broken. The front of the flyer is titled Wikipedia for Librarians. The back is titled 8 ways librarians can get involved in Wikipedia. The link in question is located on the back and is entitled 3. Teach Wikipedia as a starting point" workshop ....http://enwp.org/WP:DLG

I would love to get more information on that workshop or at the very least get the corrected link.

Thank you JO Jane Ogle (talk) 21:28, 11 September 2015 (UTC) 9/11/15 @2:28 pm pst

Your link works for me, and redirects to Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Research_libraries#Teaching_Wikipedia_as_Digital_Literacy_model. Dragons flight (talk) 21:30, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

The section link however appears to have been broken. I'm guessing they intended the section now titled: Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Research_libraries#Teaching_Wikipedia_as_part_of_Digital_Literacy. Dragons flight (talk) 21:32, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

I've fixed the link, using my Wikipedia digital literacy skillz jnestorius^(talk) 00:23, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Reliable Way Of Moving Out

I have an autistic family member and he and his family are looking into his moving out. However, websites listing subsidized housing typically include several numbers that no longer exist, as well as other housing projects that are full or not accepting applications.

What's their best bet for his moving out? Theskinnytypist (talk) 23:59, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

First of all, what country are we in? KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 10:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

We live in California, in the Sacramento area. Theskinnytypist (talk) 16:14, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Are there not professional/government services in your area that are there to help autistic people and their families deal with this and related social issues? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:47, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Assuming he has or can obtain a Section 8 (housing) voucher, your local real estate agencies may have active listings, and there is the GoSection8 website. -Modocc (talk) 23:10, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Presently, Sacramento's Housing Choice Voucher (section 8) wait list is closed, and last year only 5000 of 45,000 applicants during a two week open period were randomly selected to be placed on the wait list [1]. The city [2] and the county [3] are accepting pre-applications for public housing through the Sacramento Housing and Redevelopment Agency. -Modocc (talk) 03:02, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

September 12

if the stock company Raiffeisen Austria have problems or financial troubles,

can they get money from the German DZ-Bank? I know that if a Raiffeisen in Germany has problem, they are getting "help" straight from the DZ-Bank-Tower in frankfurt Main, because this Bank is the headquater of all raiffeisen in Germany but I don´t know how it is handled in Austria, slowenia and Italy, where also Raiffeisen Bank exist. Can someone tell me the information? --ZinssätzigeTargobank (talk) 00:59, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Raiffeisen Zentralbank is our article about the bank, but it doesn't go into any details about the internal accounting procedures of the group - such information is likely to be commercially sensitive. Tevildo (talk) 09:14, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Money cravings

At what ‘age’ does a male/female human being starts craving for 'money'? -- Space Ghost (talk) 19:27, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Female human beings never do, Russell.mo. But for males it is usually around the age of $; although this may vary. In much of Europe it now happens when a boy turns €, whilst in Britain it is still normally a bit later, around the age of ₤. μηδείς (talk) 19:58, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

All humans do. According to calculation preadolescent is the age, it was earlier for me, so I'm confused... -- Space Ghost (talk) 21:10, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Think Medeisis right. Little girls only want ponies, then cloths (lots of them) , shoes (lots of them), desinger hand-bags, diamonds (as many and a big as possible) and all the things that only money can buy – err.. but who provides all that money..?

So when is the age of $, €, ₤? -- Space Ghost (talk) 21:16, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Medeis was teasing, of course. Some people would claim that "craving for money" is a character defect, but, if you mean the age at which children learn the value of money, then it is sometime between four and ten. Very young children like bright things, so they will often prefer a bright penny to a dull dollar or pound. By ten years of age, nearly all children know the value of money and what it will buy, though large amounts outside their experience will confuse them. Most children do not develop a serious avarice problem, and will give money away if they see that someone else needs it more than they do. Many retain this approach into adulthood. Dbfirs 21:39, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

The world is full of cynics, and Oscar Wilde caused his character Lord Darlington in Lady Windermere's Fan to say "A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:44, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

WP:OR warning... My nephew who is 9 is beginning to understand the idea of what money can buy. While his brother who is 7 doesn't have much of a clue of how much things are and such. Recently, the 9 year old was talking to my wife about how he had a 5 dollar bill. Some hours later, he threw out a can that my wife was going to redeem for 5¢. She decided to make a lesson out of it and asked for his $5. She then gave him back $4.95. He didn't care for that since A) he knew the $5 was more and B) he now had just a bunch of ones and some change instead of the higher value $5. And yes, he has a harder time with amounts that he's not familiar with. He has the impression that the $17 that we spent on pizza when he visited was not quite a lot of money but at least somewhat more than he'd ever had. Dismas|^(talk) 22:38, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

A few adecdata, then. When I was six, the ice-cream truck came by and I asked for a popsicle, so my dad handed me a dollar and told me to buy one. I burst out crying, since I had no idea how money worked; everything until then had been bought for me. (This fits with the ponies, clothes and shoes, etc., theory above.) Once I started junior high, money became the means to the end of buying books and hanging out at the Friendly's after-hours at the mall. I paid my way to Europe with savings from my high school job, and paid my way through college. It wasn't until I got a few jobs with tips/commission that the $ itself became the object sought out abstractly, with no immediate purchase in mind.

At the age of eight, my nephew was given the choice of either normal presents for his ninth birthday and first communion, which were a month apart, or to get the $400.00 Lego Death Star he had been pining for since Christmas, but on the condition of receiving no other presents from anyone until the following Christmas. He wisely chose the Death Star, which took almost a year to assemble. Since then, both he and his younger brother have been plying their elders with requests in the form of, "Can I have the Imperial Star Destroyer? It's only $100.00." And they know exactly how much the Pokemon cards or earphones they want cost ahead of time, and try to convince us of how reasonable their price is. μηδείς (talk) 23:57, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Father: Son, don't you know the value of a dollar?

Young son: Sure, Pop, that's why I asked for twenty!

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:25, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

μηδείς, Dbfirs, Jack of Oz, Dismas, Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots:

Hello! sorry for the delay, I've been away from my PC. Festival (Eid) is coming soon, so I had to get ready...

I'm going with with DBfirs's statement, okay! It is what I was hoping for in a way...

Thanks friends! Take care...

Space Ghost (talk) 23:17, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't think any of us were disagreeing. Happy Eid. μηδείς (talk) 02:12, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

-- Space Ghost (talk) 06:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

September 13

Karate vs. aikido

In a fight between two people of equal size, one highly skilled in karate and the other one in aikido, who would win? 2601:646:8E01:9089:DCFB:3468:F080:7753 (talk) 07:52, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Unanswerable question. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 14:52, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

But many have tried: see Aikido vs Karate Demonstration, Aikido vs Karate 1 and Aikido VS Karate 1e. You may also be interested in A COMPARISON OF TWO TRADITIONAL, YET SEEMINGLY DIFFERENT, JAPANESE STYLES: Karate-do and Aikido by Tom Muzila. Alansplodge (talk) 15:14, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

KägeTorä is right, this isn't an answerable question. For a start, karate is a generic name for a number of Japanese martial arts. Even if we talk about diffirent scenarios, we still wouldn't be able to give a definitive answer because on one day it might be one, and on the next, the other. Different styles sometimes have their own unique techniques but most styles borrow from others. Aikido for example relies on using an opponent's weight and momentum and uses a lot of throws which is great if you have the space, but not so useful in a packed nightclub. Goju Ryu on the otherhand uses a lot of close up techniques such as elbow strikes, knee strikes and locks (yes, I know Aikido employs locks too). Perhaps if you tell us why you want to know, we could be of more help. Are you thinking about taking up a martial art?--Ykraps (talk) 16:00, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Samurai vs. Vikings

I realize that this must have been asked before, but here goes: Suppose a hypothetical scenario where a large raiding force of Vikings landed in Japan and was met by an equally-sized force of samurai -- in this scenario, who would win? (Assume both sides have equipment and training typical for their own side at the beginning of the High Middle Ages; also assume both sides have a proportional mix of spearmen and archers as called for by their own military doctrine, but no cavalry -- the Vikings couldn't bring their horses with them, and the samurai didn't have time to saddle theirs.) 2601:646:8E01:9089:DCFB:3468:F080:7753 (talk) 08:00, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

They would generally settle down to a trade agreement. Vikings were traders, and not invaders. They only invaded when the local population was against them. KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (もしもし！) 13:45, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Which was often. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

On an individual levle - List_of_Deadliest_Warrior_episodes#Episode_2:_Viking_vs._Samurai. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 15:50, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

"Suppose a hypothetical scenario" is the kiss of death for a Ref Desk question. Right at the top of this page, it says "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.". This is definitely at least two out of three of those. We can't possibly know what would happen in such a hypothetical situation - who knows what other situations would apply? Where on earth do you expect us to be able to find this answer? Clearly it's not something that's ever been carefully studied by experts - certainly not with all of your detailed caveats and restrictions. There are so many vast unknowns here that any answer that anyone here gives will be no better than flipping a coin...so I'm flipping...it's tails - so I can tell you with 100% confidence that the Vikings were so sick of being at sea for over a year in a piddly little longboat that they gave up at the first sign of trouble. Even if your question made sense - and fell within our rules - the Samurai were around for around 800 years - going through ten distinct and total changes in culture, tactics, weaponry and armor and the Vikings were active for at least 300 years and underwent similarly large changes.

Sorry - we can't answer this - it's a meaningless question with the only possible answers being useless, unreferenced junk. Go flip a coin...

SteveBaker (talk) 17:53, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Stain of sperm

Hi, I'd like to know how to clean an old and dry stain of sperm on a fleece jacket. Notice that I already tried to clean it in a washing machine. Thank you for any advice. Anonymous.--85.171.139.208 (talk) 15:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Have you tried an approach smmilar to that use for raw egg? (see-http://web.extension.illinois.edu/stain/staindetail.cfm?ID=9)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sfan00 IMG (talk • contribs)

The enzymes in saliva are good for dissolving all sorts of natural substances. You could try licking it off.--Ykraps (talk) 16:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

We do have an article on stain removal, but it's not one of our better ones. This site has some useful tips - a long soak in salt water is effective on most organic stains, or you can use an enzyme-based stain removal product. Tevildo (talk) 17:52, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Years ago, I don't remember the source, I read that hair spray gets sperm stains off cloth. It was some behind the scenes sort of interview thing, if you wondering how something might come up. Dismas|^(talk) 22:05, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm assuming we're talking about semen here, not spermatozoa separated out of the semen. There's a lot more in semen than just the wriggly fellers. But then, I wonder why we don't call sperm whales "semen whales". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:40, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Because seamen hunting semen whales would be weird. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:27, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@JackofOz, probably because the whale's 'sperm', or properly spermaceti, has nothing to do with semen but everything to do with Greek and Latin nomenclature. Richard Avery (talk) 06:37, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Technically it doesn't, but word-origin-wise it does. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:16, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Specifically, its called that because thats what people thought it was. Iapetus (talk) 10:06, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Right. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:28, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Richard. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:37, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Fabric 6" under the soil

I was at a friend's house today. The friend's husband was digging a ditch to put in a water line. I didn't want to bother anyone with the question at the time, so here I am.

In this photo, you can see a fabric that is about 6" under the soil. The ditch was being dug between the gravel driveway and a barn. What is that fabric for? Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 22:04, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

It's funny, because I was just talking about this with a neighbour who was telling me about some construction he did. The membrane is a water barrier, and it is typically covered with sand and gravel, as you can see here with the natural clay subsurface beneath. The purpose is to protect the layers above the membrane from groundwater damage. Unfortunately my informant just said it was called "membrane" which is obviously not the technical term. I'll see if I can find out an article to link to when I next speak to a relative who's an engineer. μηδείς (talk) 22:21, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

See Damp proofing. Nanonic (talk) 22:24, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Actually, thinking about it, it may be too far from the building. It could also be part of a groundwater run off into a french drain (or other) elsewhere on the property to prevent waterlogging or flooding of the topsoil. Of course it may have been part of the moisture protection barrier of a previous structure. Nanonic (talk) 22:35, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

• Weed barrier.--TMCk (talk) 22:39, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

• It's geofabric. This is a kind of damp proofing, but it certainly will not work as a weed barrier except in very specific cases. μηδείς (talk) 00:39, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

• Could be geofabric as well but it sure has nothing to do with "damp proofing".--TMCk (talk) 00:49, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

These seem to be reasonable articles under which to start. I know almost nothing of the subject, so I am only reporting what I have been told by an engineer and a construction worker in their 70's, both of whom have mentioned the subject, and it matches what I have been told in the past. μηδείς (talk) 01:06, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Geofabric for a gravel driveway makes sense. Keeps the soil in place, prevent potholes, allows water to drain and keeps gravel separated from the base. Judging by the google results it's not an uncommon application. Ssscienccce (talk) 05:17, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

What makes you think he's putting it in? To me it looks like he's laid down some builder's plastic to heap the excavated soil onto.--Ykraps (talk) 07:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be any implication he's putting the fabric in' rather it looks as though it was cut through to dig the trench. Dismas didn't say this, and if you look at it, the edges are torn. It seems apprent this was laid down on top of the rather clayey looking soil, and gravel and sand were layered above it.

Hmmm, well I don't think it's geofabric because firstly that is a fabric and this looks more like plastic, and secondly one might reasonably expect to find bark or gravel or even brick pavers above. One certainly wouldn't expect to find weeds! And I don't think its a damp proofing membrane because this would prevent surface water drainage and one would expect the ground above to be wetter than it appears. If by water line we are talking about a water supply pipe (taking water to somewhere as opposed to taking it away), there is no requirement, in the UK at least, to employ any DPC, gravel or weed proof membrane so like you, I don't think it's going in either. If it is, as you appear to be suggesting, something that was already there, I propose that it's a piece of refuse which was either buried or has become buried. If one is temporarily removing soil however, one would almost certainly put it on something like builder's plastic because scraping soil off grass directly is damn near impossible. Without more information though, this is all guesswork.--Ykraps (talk) 21:31, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Which game is this?

I am looking for information (name(s), origin, varieties) on a certain game. So far the closest I've found online looks like this, where it is titled "Hammerspiel" ("hammer game"), but googling that term didn't really lead me any further.

The variety I know is slightly different: It has three goals per player (instead of the two on the photo I linked to), and the goals are made of metal, just like the pegs. The hole in the middle has a peg inside which can be made to protrude (and push the metal ball lying on top) by means of a mechanism driven by a wooden thingy you hit with your fist. You can hit it soft or harder, and the ball will jump accordingly, sort of like a high striker (but this is just how you get the ball in play). I couldn't spot anything like that on the photo either.

The playing surface is a bit more elevated in the middle than at the rim, basically like a very flat volcano (or cone).

Four people play the game, and their aim (individually or in teams of two) is to receive as few goals as possible. You wield a mallet to hit the ball (no fingers allowed), and your mallet always has to be coming from under one of your goals — you have to direct it through the goal in order to play the ball.

Friends of my parents have owned one of these since the 1960s, but they have no idea what it was called then.

Any pointers, leads, anecdotes etc. are welcome. Thank you in advance! ---Sluzzelin talk 22:16, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

With some searching, I came across this page [4] about "Chüngel" and a google image search on this shows a lot of rabbits and various similar wooden boards [5]. And the board called Felsberger Chüngel has three goals per player and this game is described by the page I found as the best known. -Modocc (talk) 23:02, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Also known as "Hamertjesspel" or ‘little hammer games’ in Flanders and Holland per [[6] and an image search on Hamertjesspel shows only the game boards [7] and no bunnies. --Modocc (talk) 23:39, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Goodness, Modocc, you got it! The example I am most familiar with is exactly the one pictured in your link to the Felsberger Chüngel. (and it's the one that made my pacifist and normally placid grandmother smack my grandfather's wrist with her mallet. It's really a great game!). Amazing help (I am a keen googleur, and live in Switzerland to boot, but I couldn't find it. You're a star! ) In case anyone's interested: the "wooden thingy" I mentioned above, for flinging the ball into play, is the dark blob at the top (north) side of the board in the image of Modocc's link. And thanks for the varieties too. I now also saw the Luxembourg link I gave has a French version too, where the game is called "jeu des marteaux" (again "game of hammers/mallets"), a google image search whereof yielded yet more varieties. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:57, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

This is the first I've seen any of these and I've enjoyed finding the game. When I was in college, I may have spent more time winning and playing free pinball games than studying. :-) --Modocc (talk) 02:16, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

September 14

missing information

First. Thank you for being there! I have learned a lot by searching your web site. Just two things re-the lack of information. One- Searching movies, I never see a rating. G-PG-R etc. Or reference to language, violence, situations, etc. It would be helpful if the rating was included in the information. Second. Searching the reality show "Naked and Afraid" Are the contestants paid? Are they paid only if they complete the challenge? Do they get partial payment if they "Tap out"? Are they volunteer? Your article does not answer these questions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:601:C700:B629:919D:2336:39A1:79E (talk) 06:14, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

For the first part of your question, ratings vary by country and there are lots of countries. Please see motion picture rating system for more information.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:28, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Yeah the absence of ratings in movie articles is a deliberate omission. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Film#Ratings for the reasons why. This would be all very well if ratings were available somewhere else instead, but they may not be. Many IMDB pages don't show the movie's rating either. --Viennese Waltz 08:24, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

That's not my experience with IMDB. On the contrary, I can't find one without rating. Ssscienccce (talk) 16:04, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. On recent films, the US rating is shown by IMDb, with a link that you can click to show the rating in various other countries. [8] There is generally a link to the IMDb page in the Wikipedia article, so the information is available with a couple of clicks. Alansplodge (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Regarding payment of Naked and Afraid" contestants: according to this (and 2 interviews with the producer): "they receive an appearance fee and get their expenses paid". Ssscienccce (talk) 17:58, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

What font is used for the cover text of The Martian?

Cover visible here. I put this on the Miscellaneous desk because I didn't think fonts themselves were language per se. 20.137.7.64 (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

According to this site, USN Stencil. However, I'm not personally convinced - the example of the font on this page is rather different to that on the book cover, particularly in the capital D. Tevildo (talk) 23:18, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

That capital D is quite distinctive and unusual. I tried http://www.identifont.com on the lettering, but it never asked about the D and none of the fonts it suggested had that sort of D. I would suggest asking the publisher; it was their designer who had to choose the font. --65.95.178.150 (talk) 05:04, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Bear in mind that the designer might have either adapted or entirely self-designed/drawn (on-screen or paper) the lettering. I myself occasionally did this as a professional designer/editor back in the day. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 185.74.232.130 (talk) 12:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

It's particularly common to use a stock font for most of the text, then to hand-tweak particular title letters for whatever special need. SteveBaker (talk) 15:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

September 15

Please write a telegram invitation link here, I wanna join a group.86.57.30.151 (talk) 14:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

You know, I was about to say that telegrams are almost extinct. But according to Telegraphy#Worldwide_status_of_telegram_services, they are still providing Telex service in Iran, through Telecommunication_Infrastructure_Company_of_I.R.Iran. Since your IP geolocates to Iran, you can probably contact the organization to learn how to send and receive telex messages. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

They are probably referring to Telegram (software) so the information they need could possibly be found at Telegram.org. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 00:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Prison Cell

Cell at Alcatraz

Is it possible to be happy in if one was locked in a 7ft by 12ft prison cell 23 hours a day? Can a prisoner locked in this cell be as happy as a millionaire in a mansion , if one was to put their mind to it? --Kåskkœk (talk) 18:55, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:15, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

If you don't like a question, please ignore it. Others may interpret this response as WP:BITEY and not very WP:CIVIL. Perhaps you are merely being brief and don't intend to be rude. If so, please provide references to one-word replies, that will help the reference desk run better, and make it clear that you are participating here in order to help, rather than participating here to pass judgment and snark. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:49, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

So why is being locked in a cell a punishment if one can be as happy as a millionaire? --Kåskkœk (talk) 19:45, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Happiness is an internal mental state. It is not possible to guarantee that every single person in response to any given situation would be happy or not. Thus, while some people would be happy under the situation you describe, others may not be. Bugs answers your question as completely and totally as could be answered, which is to say, when you ask if it is possible "to be happy", then as long as one person could experience that emotion in the situation you describe, it is completely sufficient to answer "yes". --Jayron32 19:47, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Penal system and incarceration have some relevant info. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:50, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Here's some interesting reading on the topic from scholarly journals [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]. All of these mention confinement to small cells, and some talk about differential effects of cell size, in addition to other treatments. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:49, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Do any of them say it's not possible to be happy? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

No, but they detail the many detrimental effects of long-term incarceration that occur. They do collectively assert that there are strong negative effects of incarceration and confinement to small spaces. You could find that out if you at least skimmed the links. But if you want to smugly play word games, that's fine too. Sure, it is conceivably possible to be happy in the situation the OP describes. But masses of research shows that tends to not be the case, not by a long shot. SemanticMantis (talk) 21:24, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

The OP asked if it was possible, not if it was likely. The answer remains "Yes". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:53, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Bugs is correct, "O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." I suggest also the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, the Discourses of Epictetus and the life of Diogenes of Sinope. μηδείς (talk) 22:22, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

If we're citing tangentially related literature, then I'll let Lebowski speak for me [14] :) SemanticMantis (talk) 23:40, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I'll assume since you smalled this you're being sarcastic, SM, but Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus can hardly be called "tangential" to the topic at hand. One was a slave, the other an emperor, both famed Stoics, and each agrees with Bugs. As for Shakespeare, you really won't find a more educated writer. He wasn't pulling that line out his bottom. μηδείς (talk) 01:48, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

• Anchorite —Tamfang (talk) 03:44, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
• Viktor Frankl. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 04:25, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Happiness is relative. When I was in prison, I hated being around the other prisoners. I spent my time doing what I could to be put in solitary. When I was in solitary, I was very happy to be out of the main prison. I wanted to spend my entire seven years there, but state rules limit solitary to 30 days. So, every 30 days, I got kicked back to the block and I had to get in trouble again so I could get back to solitary. Of note, solitary is 8x8 feet. The block cells are 8x12 feet for 2-man cells and 8x16 for 4-man cells. So, in this case, solitary was smaller and better. 209.149.113.66 (talk) 13:49, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

School detentions in the UK.

I was given an after school detention for next week by a teacher. I go to a state school in the UK, can I refuse to go to a detention on legal grounds? Can I not say "Hey Teacher, legally speaking I am not obliged to go to this detention because you do not represent a public body of authority such as the police"? --Spoœekspaar (talk) 20:18, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, but Wikipedia editors may not provide any legal advice in response to questions such as this. Edison (talk) 20:37, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict)You could try saying that, but the resulting actions by the school might be worse than the detention. Your parents or guardians may have implicitly or explicitly agreed that you are subject to school discipline. Ask them what they think. They will be involved in subsequent discussions if you refuse to attend detention. The school has no legal duty to allow you to continue be educated there if you refuse to accept their discipline, but your local education authority has a duty to find you another school if you get expelled from your present school. Apologies for the "legal advice": you should consult a solicitor if you need to know the detail of the law. Dbfirs 20:45, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Where did you get the idea that school is not "a public body of authority "? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:05, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Law is Education and Inspections Act 2006 as per page 10 of this document.[15] Nanonic (talk) 21:09, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

And Section 92 deals with detentions: [16] MChesterMC (talk) 08:06, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Or you could just take what's coming to you, like a man. We have articles on Dignity, Courage and Honour, which are three qualities you appear to lack.--Ykraps (talk) 08:45, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Bobby Sands breakfast

Has anybody heard of the term "Bobby Sands breakfast"? The only Bobby Sands I have heard of, and the only one on Wikipedia, is the one that died while on a hunger strike. While I assume the meaning is that the person had nothing to eat I have never heard the term before. I tried looking for it but all I really found was the fast food place in Iran. I rather not hear anything about the rights and wrongs of either side in this. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 22:08, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Where did you hear or see the expression, CBW? Sounds like a Duke Humphrey picnic. Deor (talk) 22:19, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Where else but on that most impeccable of sources, Facebook. I think the full line was "We had a real Bobby Sands breakfast." And then probably something about golf. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 00:30, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Substituting "breakfast" with "meal" or "lunch" or "supper" gives (very few) examples, with the same meaning you suggested, but these aren't from published media outlets either. ---Sluzzelin talk 10:27, 16 September 2015 (UTC)