User talk:Jimbo Wales

More ArbCom Candidates needed

Self-nominations for positions on the ArbCom Committee (see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/Candidates) have been going on since Sunday and will continue until November 17. So far there are 10 declared candidates for the 9 open positions, so we'll have at least some choice, but more candidates are needed.

It's not unusual at this early stage, but IMHO a couple of the current candidates would have great difficulty getting elected (perhaps are even unelectable), so the need for more candidates is even higher than the 10 candidates for 9 positions numbers suggest. I'm very happy to report that 5 or 6 candidates have come out strongly in favor of taking action against bullying. (That's preliminary of course - we'll see how they answer all the questions posed). Smallbones_(smalltalk) 18:23, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

• How many non-club members (aka non-Admins) so far? AnonNep (talk) 18:48, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Quick count:
    • 5 who have never been admins
    • 2 former admins
    • 3 current admins (including 1 former arb and 1 arb clerk)
  • so it's a bit "anti-establishment" so far. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 19:10, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Smallbones, we await your nomination. -- Euryalus (talk) 20:05, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

While I'll likely write a voters' guide, let's just say that I have the greatest sympathy for those folks who know that they don't have the time or patience to serve on ArbCom. Somebody has to step up to the plate with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th inning in the 7th game of the World Series. But I'm destined to remain in the minor leagues. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 20:55, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

• I'm personally baffled as to how ArbCom will have any effect on the bullying, harassment, and paranoia that seems to be so engrained in the Wikipedia community. I see the community driving away this site's main resource, writers, in droves. And what remains are deletionists, sockpuppet avengers, and vandal fighters. Not only are those three demands a primarily negative aspect of the site, it's the bare minimum to keep this site going. This is a slow, but trickling losing proposition. Big, positive changes are what's needed here... that the community will accept. Sigh. --MurderByDeadcopy^"bang!" 00:15, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'd like Smallbones to run, too. That would be fun. Carrite (talk) 05:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Why not? It'd be very interesting to see what sort of job ArbCom's greatest critics make of arbitrating. I'd even go so far as to suggest that should not all places be filled, Jimmy coopt some of the greatest critics onto the committee. Would that result in deadlock? Or would realpolitik kick in and editors be forced to cooperate?  Roger Davies ^talk 07:44, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I suppose it's something of an honor for the senior sitting arb to suggest that I am one of ArbCom's "greatest critics," but I don't see that at all. I have made 3 criticisms of ArbCom in the past, to the best of my recollection.

• That the 2014-2015 ArbComs have really messed up the cases involving bullying of women. They just lacked the moral courage IMHO to step forward and say "this is wrong, we have to take strong action here." That's the only thing I care about in this election.
• That ArbCom and admins in general have almost always failed to stop hidden advertising on Wikipedia per WP:NOT. I did my utmost to work through the Wikipedia system to change this, then helped to pass the paid editor disclosure rule via the Terms of Use change. When ArbCom chose to say that the ToU were *not* Wikipedia policy in the Wifione case this year, I brought this to your attention and was amazed when you chose to ignore it.
• Something comparatively minor, that I haven't been very loud about. Last year I was dragged before ArbCom for reverting a banned editor, something specifically allowed by WP:BANREVERT. While ArbCom did not sanction me for this, I was stunned that the case took a full month and nobody actually accused me of breaking any rule. It would be much easier for people to defend themselves if it was required that accusers actually state what rule they think was broken. That ought to be changed. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 17:55, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

• Smallbones Your case would be this stuff, I guess: FOF, [wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning_Policy#Smallbones_warned Remedy]. And I was actually using "greatest" not as a measure of excellence but of magnitude. As in, greatest disaster, greatest catastrophe etc.  Roger Davies ^talk 10:56, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
• Smallbones I'm troubled by your remark about lacking moral courage. Is there any evidence for this or it is speculation of your part? Could it not also be that the committee itself echoes the very differing views held by the community on bullying and incivility, and were unable to find consensus? Perhaps too it might be that the cases simply weren't framed as bullying in the first place? To take GamerGate as an example, it's all very well saying that this was about gender when, in fact, in 33,000 words of public GamerGate evidence, the word "gender" is mentioned once. And in the 8,900 words of private evidence, it is also mentioned once, in a quote.  Roger Davies ^talk 14:06, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

So if it were gridlocked by discordant voices, what would ArbCom do to break their own intractable disputes? Ban one another on the sly through proxies? Call for the establishment of a new MegaCom to resolve internal matters that ArbCom could not settle themselves? One does wonder. Carrite (talk) 13:04, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

We'd do what we're doing right now wrt AUSC. Nothing. For my money, what we do need more of, in terms of candidates, are people who are willing to accept compromises. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 14:23, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

• My block log (which includes a 1-year siteban) disqualifies me from running. Besides, I'm against revealing my off-Wikipedia identity. GoodDay (talk) 06:21, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Disqualified is a strong term, I'm sure you are allowed to run. You have been block free for well over a year, people have made admin on similar gaps since their last block. As for identification, I think it is privately to the WMF it doesn't have to be public. ϢereSpielChequers 10:21, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
    • Not even WMF is getting any private info from me. GoodDay (talk) 12:59, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
• Smallbones What action should arbitrators take against bullies with blogs, bullies with extensive press contacts, and bullies with fan clubs of bullies? And how best should we protect arbitrators from themselves being bullied? On- and off-wiki?  Roger Davies ^talk 11:54, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

@Roger Davies:

First, I believe in freedom of speech, so no action against editors who speak to the press is appropriate. I was surprised that some editors suggested that re: the recent article in The Atlantic. Blogs are about the same, unless they are encouraging physical violence in which case you should probably contact the police and the WMF. Bullies with fan clubs of bullies on Wikipedia? - I'd suggest just banning the 1st bully and trying to ignore the rest. Again if any real threats of violence occur, contact the police and WMF. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 18:53, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I believe Smallbones feels that the answer to what ails Arbcom is that all incoming members should be female. At least that is what he told a cheering crowd in Washington, DC at WikiCon, maybe that statement was just for effect. Of course, in my opinion this doesn't really solve any of the inherent difficulties of which you speak. (See, if he ran for ArbCom we could ask him these and other things...) Carrite (talk) 12:49, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Carrite, your development of ESP which allows you to see into the motivations of other editors is a wonderful asset that should be put to use. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 13:13, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't take ESP, he said it on camera, anybody can take a listen. Carrite (talk) 13:52, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

In the Signpost I stated my position "They don’t need to all be women, although that would send a loud and clear message to all concerned. They don’t need to all be feminists. All they need is to be committed to stopping the bullying." In my 1-minute comment in DC, I was trying to convey that women needed to do more than complain - they need to find candidates and vote. I think almost everybody has gotten that message. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 18:31, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Carrite and TheRedPenOfDoom, you should run too. There's zero merit in sitting on the sidelines complaining about how others got it wrong. Go and fix it, and take Smallbones with you. At present I suspect you'd all win easily. -- Euryalus (talk) 13:18, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I'd absolutely run as part of a slate. Oh, wait, slates are banned, aren't they? No wonder the result is such a mess... No sane person would want to be part of the ridiculously dysfunctional institution that has emerged, and it takes 8 votes to fix it — with basically zero reformers on board now. The lowly state of the institution is ultimately the responsibility of the sitting committee, which has absolutely run the franchise into the ground. It is getting to the point where only nihilism makes sense: ArbCom needs to be blown up and started over. Voting NO for everybody and leaving more than half the seats unfilled might send a message. It has been suggested elsewhere... Carrite (talk) 13:33, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I am with Carrite on the NO ON EVERYONE slate. I have no interest in participating in an institution which has dug itself into a hole time and time again and whose only solutions have been "Dig faster!" -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:23, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Carrite: What makes you think "slates" are banned? They are not, as far as I know. You don't get bracketed on the ballot, but you can identify yourself as part of a group. Some people don't like people running as a group, perhaps enough people feel that way to make it unlikely that a "slate" or any of its members would get elected, but it is not "banned." Neutron (talk) 21:33, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Gimme Dennis Brown. Gimme Drmies. Gimme Wehwalt. Gimme New York Brad. Gimme Scott Martin. Gimme Worm That Turned. Gimme Roger Davies. Then I'd run and the piece of crap could be fixed. Carrite (talk) 13:42, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm grateful, but I think I'm best placed doing what I'm doing.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:50, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I feel the same way about my own WP work. Unfortunately, we have a system in which writers write, copyeditors edit, administrators administrate, and it takes a lawyer or a lunatic to want to serve on ArbCom. And there sure as hell aren't enough lawyers... Carrite (talk) 13:56, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

In agreement with Euryalus. If yas don't have problems with giving over personal info to WMF? then by all means run for Arbcom. GoodDay (talk) 13:30, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

For the most part, it's not WMF I'm afraid of. If I were on arbcom, and pissed someone off? I'm all but certain that people would be knocking on my door, irl, or calling my employer. And that's happened to sitting arbs, in the past. I don't think the WMF would abuse my identity - it's wikipedians I don't trust. Which is a shame, as I'm tempted to take a crack at it. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 14:57, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Yep. (The WMF is nothing to be afraid of, characterized--from my point of view--mostly by inactivity.) And some of those Wikipedians are Legion, literally--I got two masters of extensive sock farms harassing me. Drmies (talk) 15:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

IMHO, the editors who've been the most vocal in their criticism of Arbcom, should (themselves) be running for Arbcom. They've talked the talk, now it's time for them to walk the walk. Complaining won't solves anything. Take the bull by horns & just do it, folks. GoodDay (talk) 13:50, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

It's all about politics and counting votes. Nothing good is going to come from the next ArbCom. Nothing. I've got an encyclopedia to help write. Carrite (talk) 14:01, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

As others suggested above, the best thing to do right now is to vote against all candidates. Voting in new faces has never helped to address the ArbCom's fundamental problems. I would be willing to vote for a candidate who makes a firm pledge to conduct all deliberations on-wiki, but everyone else gets an automatic no vote. Everyking (talk) 20:50, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

There are quite a few things that pass though the arb list that are not ready for prime time and could lead to a variety of problems if aired in public. --In actu (Guerillero) | My Talk 21:14, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Undoubtedly. Confidential information must be kept confidential. But the ArbCom could conduct the overwhelming majority of its business out in the open without compromising anyone's privacy. So why not? Everyking (talk) 23:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes. I haven't been an arb, but ArbCom is where to go with information that simply needs to be kept secret--in some cases, for the benefit of the editor one is charging with certain misdeeds. Drmies (talk) 21:16, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree, but deliberations can be in public except for confidential information that can be reviewed in "executive session" so to speak. The problem is that otherwise people have no idea how arbcom reaches its decisions in these cases. Sometimes they seem totally arbitrary. Coretheapple (talk) 17:36, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Evereyking I have gone as far down that route as I feel I can. Perhaps you can persuade other candidates to adopt the same undertakings. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 01:31, 14 November 2015 (UTC).

If Smallbones is concerned with bullying, their first step should be to stop acting like a bully [1]. WP:BANREVERT says to remove comments, and if Smallbones was simply removing edits by those-who-have-sorta-talkpage-banned-by-Jimbo -- preferrably with a neutral edit summary --I'd be supportive. Rather, they replace the comments with statements in the form of "Removed comment by Naughty, signed Smallbones_(smalltalk)," which reads like grandstanding "Look at me removing comments from him, who is bad person, inferior to us enlightened folk!" nonsense. NE Ent 14:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Article quality after ten years

Ten years ago I did a survey of 100 randomly-selected pages. Since you've expressed an interest in how articles change over time, you might be interested in my look at how they've fared since then. --Carnildo (talk) 11:19, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Consider larger samples and automated counts: When Jimbo has had time to respond to these article-quality tests, he has noted the need for much larger samples, such as 1,000 pages (or 10,000 pages) in the test suite. Also, be sure to observe tests for randomness, when picking the set of pages, because the inclusion of those 3 Digimon pages among "100 pages at random" seems highly non-random and would greatly skew the conclusions about how many pages among 100 would become redirects 10 years later. I know the large-pageset tests are extremely tedious: I have used many sets of 30,000 or more pages to conclude that IP address users edited 27% as many times as registered users. However, smaller page-sets can still show details of how pages could be modified, but not give credible numbers of percentages or other related counts. The use of the Central Limit Theorem for sample size needs to be adjusted depending on the rareness of the qualities noted among the population of 5 million articles. Find some automated ways to compare perhaps 10,000 articles 10 years later. For example, count the inclusions of cite templates/modules: as with {{cite_web}}'s Module:Citation/CS1 in 2.6 million pages among 5 million articles plus talk-pages in November 2015. Anyway, I think Jimbo appreciates these types of quality checks, even if too busy to discuss the details. -Wikid77 (talk) 17:15, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

10 years ago 3 Digimon "articles" in a sample of 100 would not be surprising at all. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:20, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I doubt that we have too much use for sample sizes over 1,000. Sure if something is really rare and you want to look for how it's changing then larger sample sizes would be nice, but it's hard for me to think of any examples. OK, how about we want to check whether articles with "connected contributor templates" (or any other article attribute) are below 1% of all articles. Then I get a standard error of 0.3% for n=1000 (somebody should check my work); meaning that anything outside the range of 1.9%-0.1% (1 to 19 examples of the template in 1,000 articles) would be inconsistent with a 1% rate for this template. Do we really need to be anymore accurate than this? Give me an example of a reasonable research topic, and I'll bet that I can think of a better way to adress the issue than by increasing the sample size to 4,000 - which is what it would take to reduce the standard error by half. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 21:35, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Carnildo. So much of the world is short termist, by wikipedia standards this is a true pitch drip test. I hope you continue it for many decades to come. As for 3% of the original sample being Digimon, the myth circa 2006 was that far more than 3% of the pedia was of that nature. ϢereSpielChequers 23:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

@Carnildo: - Yes, thank you very much for this. I hope you saw my attempt at something similar at User:Smallbones/Article quality prelim, but of course it only went 2 years back. For others interested in article quality improvement tests, I'll (humbly) suggest you look at Carnildos work and my own, and maybe look around at Category:Random Pages Tests.

I would love to do something like this with a larger sample size, say 500 articles, but that would take a few editors working together. Some folks objected that very few of the articles I sampled were rated above "start", but that's what you get from a random sample! I have found a way to do a stratified sample so that including 100 (total) of FA, GA, A, B, and C articles is possible. We should be able to get a lot of info via bots, but I'm not a bot programmer myself - anybody able to help here? 500 articles would make a nice symbolic sample size, as it is 0.01% of 5 million. If anybody wants to pitch in, please contact me on my talk page. Maybe we could do it during the 1st week of January. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 18:48, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this: although the results overall are optimistic, the articles may have only reached a higher quality after having been around for at least ten years. --Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 02:29, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, I'm 18 today. --Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 02:35, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Admin creates 80K useless (many breast-related) redirects, "fetish" categories at Commons

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Are you aware of this situation? Are you aware Commons now has not only the category "Hogtied women," but subcategories "Nude or partially nude hogtied women," "Topless hogtied women" and "Nude hogtied women"? If not, you should be. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Neelix/Evidence. Considering the known gender disparity at Wikipedia, it has not been reassuring for me (as a female) to see the lack of sanctions so far. —Мандичка^YO 😜 00:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

There's a wide consensus that this editing was not acceptable. Please note that Neelix has resigned today as an administrator, has been community-restricted from creating any more redirects, and is well aware from extensive community discussion that he needs to change his editing behavior if and when he returns from his current wikibreak. The most problematic redirects have been deleted and many others are being reviewed. The Commons categories need to be addressed on that site but they will hopefully be cleaned up also. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 00:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Not before commons is purged by fire I suspect... Only in death does duty end (talk) 01:34, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I know he resigned, because the arbitration committee declined to do so (!) despite the evidence in front of them that included abuse of admin tools and that he had been blocked for doing the same redirect insanity in the past. Resigning is all he has done since announcing his feelings were too hurt to help clean up his mess. Apparently some people think that's the end of it because he "appears to acknoledge (sic) that there was a contention with respect" to his behavior and that "clouds do exisist (sic)." (Clouds! They exist!) If a non-admin had done what he had done, can you imagine what would have happened? There would be no such easy dismissal for a non-admin, since we don't have the option of resigning with no further explanation and getting showered in praise for doing so. Btw Commons is even more of a nightmare to clean up. Almost 2,000 categories this year. Now Wikicommons users have to take time to evaluate the usefulness of categories like "Nude or partially nude kneeling women wearing high-heeled shoes."‎ Oh yay. —Мандичка^YO 😜 02:42, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I have to agree with the outrage. A non-admin would have been banned instantly. We have developed a caste system in Wikipedia. Jusdafax 03:12, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Super Mario Effect. --Guy Macon (talk) 04:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Wrong in numerous ways:

• Arbcom refused to do an out of process desysop but choose to proceed with a case. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind the result would have been a desysop.
• By taking the time to log in and resign, Neelix simplified matters, the "praise" was simple thanking him for that. This came after being vilified for a week on ANI, which many editors seemingly taking pains to wikilink the offensive redirects so we could all see how offensive they work. (See WP:Widget).
• The redirects went undetected because the administrator set of rights includes autopatrolled, so the pages would not appear on new pages. A new editor would have been detected much sooner.
• The quality of a community is not how it idolizes heroes but how it treats those who have erred. The nature of the activity does not indicate trolling so much as a significant lack of judgement -- who would intentionally subject themselves to the week Neelix has had? NE Ent 03:21, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Autopatrolled is not a perfect system, I have had to revoke it from a couple of editors who were creating unreferenced BLPs. But it is a necessary system both because we don't have the resources not to target our efforts, and we need to protect article creators from newpage patrollers. The fact that occasionally one of the thousands of editors with this right needs to lose it doesn't alter that the right needs to exist. But most importantly, Newpage patrol focusses on articles and defaults to ignoring redirects. That's a sensible and pragmatic response to the risks we face. We target most of our attention on higher risk things such as new articles from new editors, the fact that occasionally a lower risk event happens doesn't mean that we are wrong to target high risk activities. ϢereSpielChequers 05:48, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

• Mandichka, what Neelix did was wrong, but our response should be thoughtful, not reactionary. First, could we adjust Wikipedia's software settings so that pages created by editors (and admins) with the autopatrol right aren't marked as patrolled? We should make sure at least two editors see every page that's being created: the creator and somebody else. Second, we should make sure Neelix can get through this situation with dignity intact. Even when we site ban an editor, we are courteous to them as they leave. I have seen comments suggesting that it's appropriate to ridicule Neelix. I disagree. Treating sanctioned editors badly only pushes them to be more disruptive or vindictive. That benefits nobody. Jehochman ^Talk 04:42, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Getting rid of the autopatrolled right would not guarantee that all new redirects were seen by someone other than their creator, it might actually reduce atention on redirects in general. Unless we greatly increased our team of new page patrollers, shifting the focus onto pages created by editors who are currently autopatrolled would mean less attention on high risk new pages such as articles by new editors. If your concern is redirects by autopatrolled editors then you would need to change the system both to end autopatrolled and to not default to filtering out redirects. You'd then need a lot more patrollers. ϢereSpielChequers 06:09, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

• It is entirely appropriate to engage in frank assessment of administrator/editor misconduct without descending to ridicule. The first is necessary while the second is childish and wrong. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:59, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

• I said people offwiki have a right to ridicule editors (particularly admins) who act in various ridiculous manners, such as engaging in clear COI editing or creating 10k redirects with the word titty. This is free speech. I made that point to say mocking does not equal harassment. If people offwiki discover a cluster of articles that are not only absurd in their overdetail but are embarrassing to the subject because of their obsessive nature, I say let them fix them if they want. What occurred with bans being handed out right and left for editors who were not violating any rules (such as indeffing an editor who had merely made two random, minor, helpful edits) IMO is completely damaging to the project. I feel the denial of responsibility from you and the other admin who participated in that is very troubling. Everything that's been uncovered so far needs to brought to the attention of higher ups at WP. —Мандичка^YO 😜 15:00, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Are you aware Commons now has not only the category "Hogtied women," but subcategories "Nude or partially nude hogtied women," "Topless hogtied women" and "Nude hogtied women"?

Yes Мандичка, we're very aware Commons has such categories. It's because of people like you who complain if a category has naked people in it, and surprise surprise, now you complain that we don't put those naked people in the parent category!

Relating to the Neelix issue, there was a topic about it at COM:ANU, it's being dealt with. -mattbuck (Talk) 09:56, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Excuse me? I have NO PROBLEM with nudity at Commons and I've never ever complained about it. EVER. What I've complained about are useless subcategories that fetishize the subject based on trivial details such as whether their legs and mouths are open and if they're wearing high heels. Mattbuck until you find a single time I've complained because I saw a nude photo on Commons, you should withdraw your "people like you" accusation against me as it violates WP:NPA. —Мандичка^YO 😜 15:00, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I think I misinterpreted what exactly you were referring to. I apologise unreservedly for my previous post. -mattbuck (Talk) 15:02, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, apology accepted. I want it to be clear I am not offended by the content and have no problem with nudity (whether in photos, art, or even pornography) at Commons, as long as it's categorized in a neutral fashion that does not exploit the subject. —Мандичка^YO 😜 15:06, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Drawing a line under this

I made sure to comment positively on Neelix's resignation as I was one of the people who advised him to do so. Neelix claims he created these redirects and categories in good faith and I'm willing to believe him on that. Can I remind people that this individual has nearly quarter of a million edits across the projects. On top of that, the poor actions were in our meta space - with respect to commons, I'd argue that the images are the problem, not the categories. They may fall under commons scope and commons may allow them, but that's why I spend almost no time at commons - I have a low opinion of the project. But to blame the person who categorised these images is akin to shooting the messenger. Closer to home, redirects are commonly regarded as cheap and not as visible to readers, they're generally allowed to be poorer quality than article titles. His typos were "plausible". We're not talking about 80k - that's the total number of articles and redirects he's ever created. When I looked into it myself, I found something closer to 3,000 inappropriate redirects. Still significant, but I'd rather we were talking about accurate numbers.
Overall, I can see why Neelix thought all these categories and redirects would be fine. They weren't. Of course they weren't. He was told that in no uncertain terms at ANI and stopped and apologised. However, the outrage machine's wheels had started turning... ANI was subject to pile on, with more and more unpleasant comments. Arbcom, the committee designed to be slow and level headed jumped on the bandwagon to desysop him, outside of their own process. When their heads cooled, they opened a case instead. Thankfully Neelix heeded my (and probably others) advice and resigned. ANI put forward a topic ban on creating pages. What is achieved by pushing this further? This editor has fallen from grace despite years of hard work for the projects. I'm not saying it's not deserved, but I do think it's time to draw a line under the matter and move on. Worm^TT(talk) 11:15, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

But.. but.. but.. nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Or maybe they do actually, at least in this instance... --Jules (Mrjulesd) 12:00, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

HE DID NOT create these redirects in good faith. Let's be clear: He KNEW making these redirects were wrong. He was banned for it in 2010 and when he was unblocked he specifically referred to it as an "error."[2] He did not argue he was being helpful or they should be allowed, but plainly indicated he knew it was incorrect. So please, why do you think when he went back to doing it it was in good faith? I'm not quite sure what he's done for the project that makes you think we should be in his gratitude. All his "GA" and Featured articles are promoting his personal interests. And that's not to mention other incidents that clearly call his integrity into question.[3] And I have no problem with some of the images themselves, but putting them into trivial sex fetish categories is not acceptable. Why anyone is feeling sorry for Neelix is beyond me. I feel sorry for editors who will end up working thousands of hours to undo the damage he's done. The reason why many people are bringing this up is because it reflects the overall cancer at Wikipedia. —Мандичка^YO 😜 15:00, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I feel pity for anyone who is subject to what Neelix has been subject to. I hope you never are. Worm^TT(talk) 15:17, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

What exactly has he been subject to? Having what he was up to exposed? Again, he indicated back in 2010 he knew that was a violation of the rules. I don't think I've seen a remark about him that has gotten anyone in trouble for violating NPA - what has he been subject to? He was asked over and over to help fix this and he declined. Have you actually looked at the whole thing that has been uncovered, including his walled garden of problematic articles and advocacy? This is not good faith editing. —Мандичка^YO 😜 15:27, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

He has been subject to intense scrutiny. Years of work have been called into question. Mass over exaggerations of the scale of the problem (e.g. "Admin creates 80K useless (many breast-related) redirects") - those numbers don't add up. I don't agree that the majority of his redirects were useless, let alone all of them. But don't let facts get in your way. He's guilty and deserves to be punished. Of course, apologising and resigning the bit, along with a topic ban and blog posts about him that's not enough. Let's complain on Jimbo's page to get him to do something more. Worm^TT(talk) 15:32, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I do declare years of work not in good faith when it is apparent a significant focus of this work was contrary to the guidelines of Wikipedia concerning notability and advocacy, and overall harmful to the project. How do you support your statement that the thousands of redirects (I've seen 80,000 and 50,000) were good faith when he was aware they were violating the rules? Yes, the majority of his redirects were useless, as often they consisted of things such as punctuation, pluralization and articles like "the" etc that are totally irrelevant to search engines. He even invented words that do not exist to use as redirects.[4] This is redirect spam to pump up edit count, and once again, he knew it was wrong! Additionally he only apologized here after it became apparent he was in serious trouble, and he has most definitely not apologized for Commons. I saw nothing of contrition or regret in his resignation, just that he had been advised to do so. Considering the majority of his infractions have nothing to do with misuse of admin tools, how does resigning his adminship make a difference? What would be the consequences for a non-admin who did the same exact thing? —Мандичка^YO 😜 16:31, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to ask everybody to end this. Neelix made some awful mistakes, he's been punished. There's work to do to fix the mistakes, but essentially it is all over. We should thank everybody involved in bringing the problems to light, and, I hope, act with kindness now toward everybody involved. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 17:20, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, can someone, or maybe Jimbo, close this? No need to gravedance over something that's already been done and fixed. epic genius (talk) 17:33, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

It's not been done and fixed. The arb case is currently open, so it's dishonest for someone to close this topic and say "arb case is closed." I didn't pay attention to the conspiracy theorists before but wow, this really does look like a cover-up when someone does that. —Мандичка^YO 😜 18:10, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.