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August 10

Longevity of widowhood

In 1948 Sir Francis Connelly, Lord Mayor of Melbourne, aged 52, married his second wife, Patricia, aged 27. He died suddenly in May 1949. She lived on until last week, aged almost 96, surviving him by 67 years. Is this some sort of record?

I've found reference to a 75-year widowhood, a 72-year widowhood and a 70-year widowhood. But no comprehensive list of such records. I'm surprised WP doesn't have one. Does anyone know of one? Naturally, I've searched already and come away empty-handed. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:18, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've never seen such a list, but I'd like for you to watch this to put yourself in the proper frame of mind. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:58, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maudie Hopkins and Alberta Martin are examples of women who at a young age married an old veteran of the US Civil War. They both remarried after being widowed, so I'm not sure if that meets your criteria. Martin was widowed at age 20 and again at age 25, and lived to age 97. Hopkins was widowed at 23 and lived to 93. You might search for a list of widows of Civil War veterans who died after, say, 2000. Loraof (talk) 02:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

From a quick look through Wikipedia articles on the oldest people, Misao Okawa was widowed in 1931 and lived until 2015, nearly 84 years later. Unlikely to be a world record, but gives a lower bound. Warofdreams talk 13:39, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also, not widowed but worth a mention, Camille Loiseau, divorced at the age of eighteen in August 1910, and lived until 2006, just under 96 years later. Warofdreams talk 14:13, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for these bits of info, folks. It's enough to tell me my lady is not a record-breaker.

My surprise at the apparent non-existence of a list persists (and will continue to do so until someone gets off their fat arse and does something about it. Myself excluded, naturally. My role is to point out glaring omissions; heaven forbid I should sully my lily-white hands with the sordid business of actual work.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:52, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Fresh & Easy

Why did Fresh & Easy fail? Surprisingly, the article doesn't really address the issue, nor does it really explain what was so different about Fresh & Easy stores from typical American food stores. --Viennese Waltz 10:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Answering my own question with a couple of sources [1] [2]. Further insights welcome. --Viennese Waltz 12:01, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I found Tesco’s Fresh & Easy Failure which has more detail. The salient point seems to be: "In the past, Tesco approached its transnational ventures with great cultural awareness and sensitivity by adapting its operations to meet the demands and conditions of the local consumers. When entering the US market, however, Tesco planned to ‘make others dance to its tune’". Alansplodge (talk) 12:08, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's an excellent writeup. It's a textbook case of how not to run a business. (Unless the goal of the business is to enrich the CEO.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:47, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the use of self-checkout lanes: Most stores in the US either have a mix of self-checkout and full-service lanes (especially large supermarkets like Walmart and Meijer) or have full-service lanes exclusively (usually smaller stores, like Fresh Thyme: [3]). They seem to have aimed at the small grocery store format, like Fresh Thyme. The problem is, these attract health food nuts and the elderly, who like the personal small store service. So, having exclusively self-checkout lanes is bound to alienate those shoppers. Had they opened a mega-store to compete with Walmart, then all self-checkout lanes might have gone over better, especially if they were able to offer lower prices, and no lines (queues), as a result. However, note that they would need to have enough people to monitor the self-checkout lanes, as those machines often fail, in my experience, and need somebody to log on and tell it "no, that is a bag of peanuts on the scale, not an elephant". :-)

Also, not accepting coupons is a huge no-no in the US market. The only other business I know of that had that policy was Dollar Tree, and they have since reversed it. To get away with such a policy you would need to be in the ultra-luxury market, maybe in Beverly Hills (but even 9% of people there are below the poverty line).

If I were to place small stores, I would put them where access to full-sized stores is limited, such as in retirement communities, where people don't drive (other than golf carts), or in rural areas, where the nearest full-sized store is too far away. They seem to have aimed for urban "food deserts", but there's a reason those places aren't well served; the people who live there are poor, so need low prices and to use coupons. And achieving low prices in areas which are bound to have high taxes (due to the way the US fails to share tax revenue from wealthy areas), shoplifting, and robbery is no easy task. StuRat (talk) 15:06, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Their business plan was so bad, it makes you wonder if they wanted to fail. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:13, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's possible, maybe the CEO somehow would earn more money that way (payoff from a competitor ?). StuRat (talk) 15:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In this specific case, the CEO got a big payoff despite the company's bankruptcy. (Sound familiar?) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:53, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You would think the shareholders would sue the board and CEO for allowing such a situation, leading to no punishment for poor decisions which cost them money. StuRat (talk) 19:01, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

According to Splodge's link, the shareholders did OK too. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:14, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in the US pretty much every gas (petrol) station sells basic food items, like milk, bread, and beer, so people who value convenience over price have that option, too. StuRat (talk) 18:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Having read Alansplodge's source above, the reason for failure is obvious to me. Midsize grocery stores without attendants simpl do not work in the US. Self-service checkout is an imposition, not a convenience. I frequent Walmart for the prices, but when I attempt the self-service checkout I still have to call the clerk at least twice per checkout due to some malfunction or odd vagary. The full service lanes usually have people with at least a month's worth of shopping for a 5-person family. And the express lanes for people with less than 20 items usually have 20 people in line.

The alternative is more upscale groceries. These have the benefit of a worldwide cuisine, with everything from fresh sushi and pierogies to "Chinese", "Mexican", and "Italian" sections (500 varieties of cheese) and so forth. And I am talking about all the fresh fixings to make your own burritos, not microwavable crap.

Those stores tend to cost 150% of what Walmart costs, but they do have specials and coupons, you just have to pay attention.

Then there is the bodega which has a small selection of daily essentials (and in NYC, often Korean, Hispanic or Jamaican specialties, or mouthwatering Jewish food or seafood in more expensive neighbourhoods) at retail prices, but they are well kept, quick, convenient, and owner managed, with the clerk knowing the exact location and availability of every single item in the store.

It would seem Fresh & Easy decided to select all the defects and none of the benefits of any of these models. μηδείς (talk) 21:39, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I actually don't like full service lanes. I've had cashiers slam down the bananas, which then bruised, drop a greeting card in a puddle of milk on the conveyor belt, and fail to give me all my grocery bags. Also, when I bag my own groceries, I can put the frozen foods together, double bag the heavy canned goods, etc. Most of the baggers either aren't that bright or just don't care. Also, I like to verify each price as it rings up, and that's no easy task when the cashier is ringing them up with no regard for what's scrolling off the screen (if they even let you see the screen). I agree that self-checkout lanes are annoyingly unreliable, but hopefully that will improve with time. Their potential to completely eliminate lines is quite appealing to me. (The old logic was that if nobody was waiting in line, they are paying cashiers to do nothing, so they should fire some, until the customers are back in lines where they belong.) StuRat (talk) 03:56, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The solution is to pick an alert 50-ish clerk, place your items strategically: cans and jars and heavy boxes first, then hard veggies, then delicate veggies, then delicate dry items, then meats, then bagged bread and milk and similar containers with handles. Engage with the clerk. Ask that the cans and jars be double bagged, standing up, paper inside plastic. Ask that the onions go with the carrots and corn, the tomatoes with the soft fruit, all double bagged in plastic. Ask her to single bag each of the meats separately, while you either put the delicate dry items and eggs on top of the can-filled bags, or bag them yourself. Tell her no bag for the gallon jug, it is already its own container, same for the loaf of bread or a five-pound bag of potatoes: why put a bag in a bag? Then grab the cart and run like hell without paying. μηδείς (talk) 22:57, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

LOL. But seriously, if you distract the checker with all those requests they are likely to get annoyed and/or make mistakes. StuRat (talk) 12:53, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The best thing is to have both options available. And if you shop at one particular place routinely, you can study the competency of the individual clerks and gravitate toward them, if possible - especially if you have a lot of items. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:37, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Aren't self-service lanes an open invitation to shoplifting? Assuming there is no clerk around to keep an eye on you, what's to stop you from quickly slipping an item or two into your shopping bag without scanning it? I've never done it, but it seems like it would be a breeze to do. --Viennese Waltz 06:53, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is there ever no clerk around? The scale detects simple fraud-related weight anomalies and even cries wolf up if you even touch anything or take more than 10 microseconds to let go. I just plop everything down on the bagging area and don't touch it till after I pay. Then I put 20 pounds of stuff inside bags. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 08:03, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As Self-checkout#Shoplifting [4] [5] [6] [7] note, the rate of shoplifting does appear to be significantly higher perhaps 2-5 times more. Prosecutions can also be complicated, since the customer may just claim they made an error (and perhaps they really did so there are obvious PR issues) although it does depend on the extent [8] Nil Einne (talk) 13:11, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They may have decided that the shoplifting losses are outweighed by not having to pay the extra checkout clerks. But in my experience, they always have one clerk at the self-checkout lanes, partly to help and partly to watch. If there's a shortage of clerks, they may close the self-checkout lanes. One time I was in an older Walmart store and asked why there were no self-checkout lane. The clerk told me that with the clientele Walmart gets, there was too great a risk of shoplifting. However, the newer stores have self-checkout, with a clerk watching of course. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:20, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Walmarts are illegal in my city (450 square miles) but the one I know gets "that kind of clientele" and they have self-checkout. I don't know how new that is. I've seen older (in the Rust Belt) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:11, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Protectionism of "Mom and Pop" stores? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's mostly their horrible wages, business practices at home and abroad and not wanting the flavor of the city to change from lots of business closures (e.g. supermarkets are only about 100 feet wide here so less economy of scale but at least no one has to pay public transportation just to use them since a half mile away is considered the most inconvenient boondocks of the neighborhood). Mom and pop stores are likely part of it. There are a lot of these like delis, 99 cent stores, laundromats and bodegas (Hispanic delis), who often do all the work to keep costs down (even teen kids of the owner work the cash register). Therefore Walmarts are banned in 450 square miles where 3% of the US population lives. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:23, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is one clerk for every 4 or more self-checkout lanes, so they can reduce their employment costs dramatically over full-service lanes. They do seem to have flaws regarding coupons, though. They scan the bar code on the coupon and, if it matches an item you purchased it gives you the discount, but many don't seem to tell you whether they gave you a discount, if not, why not, or what amount it was. You have to watch your total and see how it changes to figure out if it worked or not. And coupons frequently have "gotchas", like being for the 12 ounce size when they only sell an 11.9 ounce size, so you never really know if they will work or not. And, if they don't, you need to get a clerk to take the item off, if you don't want to pay full price for it. Then they ask you to insert the coupon into a hole, but don't repeat the bar code scan there, so you could insert anything. They also frequently don't go down the hole, so the electric eye says it's no good. In some cases they call a clerk over to verify that you inserted the coupon, but you may well need a clerk anyway, just to get it to go past the electric eye (they seem to jam a credit card sized ID badge in there to force the coupon down). StuRat (talk) 13:54, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

At the store I go to, the discount shows up on the screen as soon as the clerk scans it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:16, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why does the clerk scan it at a self-checkout lane ? StuRat (talk) 14:23, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

it's how their system works. I've also been to stores where you scan the coupon yourself. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How can a city make Wal - Mart illegal? It's not just British companies that have had a rough time. Macy's share price has dropped by over 40% in a year and they are closing 15% of their stores. 86.185.45.149 (talk) 03:32, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It means Walmart isn't allowed to open a store there even though they want to. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:00, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If Walmart cared to, they could probably sue the city into bankruptcy, for restraint of trade and probably various other federal violations. The city is denying its citizens the right to choose where to shop. It's Communistic. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:07, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they have some loophole and Walmart's lawyers know it? Bankrupt a city that spends $69 billion a year? That's a big lawsuit. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:21, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe they figure that if people want to spend more of their annual income than they would otherwise have to, that's their problem. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:48, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would think banning one particular retailer would be difficult, but banning all mega-stores would be relatively easy. Just don't zone any areas for them, and refuse any requests for a variance. However, surprisingly US states and cities seem able to waive taxes on certain businesses and not on other comparable businesses. This seems patently unfair to me as "playing favorites" and also makes me wonder if those getting the tax breaks offered higher bribes to whoever decides the matter than those who didn't get them. StuRat (talk) 15:23, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's just Walmart [9] [10]. There are other big box stores here like Target, BJ's, and Costco. J&R Music and Computer World was recently 300,000 square feet which is bigger than America's biggest Walmart (in New York's Financial District too, imagine the property taxes!) and Earth's biggest store besides one in Korea is in a part of America that bans Walmarts. It has a tenth of a square mile of floors (octuple America's biggest Walmart) and 10 floors each a sixth of a mile long and 200 feet wide and would be a square 0.28 miles wide if it was all on one floor like most Walmarts. This would also make it almost the width of the biggest land area building on Earth. Also much of this 0.1 square mile store was built in one year between 1901 and 1902 and the rest by 1931. How cool is that? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:39, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Any ban of mega-stores could contain a grandfather clause to allow existing stores to remain. Or it could be written to allow large multi-floor stores, but then Walmart could adapt to that and offer such a format for those markets. StuRat (talk) 18:20, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the number of floors is not why the City Council's anti-Walmart. I checked the single floor big boxes I know on Google Maps and the biggest roof was about 144,000 square feet. And the warehouse club companies are still expanding in the city I think. So they couldn't ban single floor big boxes without additional caveats. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:54, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Much like Britain then. The "golden arches" are anathema in many upper - class areas of London. Conversely, having a Waitrose in the area boosts house prices. 86.185.45.149 (talk) 04:09, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Picture attached to a search result

How do you change the picture that shows up next to a search result?

For instance, if I type Duke Basketball into google. The name comes up on the right and there is a generic picture linked from somewhere attached to, what appears to be, the wikipedia article. How do I change that picture? Not for duke basketball, as that was just an example.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Today2 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

When pictures show up in a Google search, I usually just go to Google Images and see what else there is. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:12, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but there's usually one picture connected to the search result on the right side of the google results page. How do you adjust that one picture? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Today2 (talk • contribs) 21:47, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If there's nothing in the settings for Google, you probably can't. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:182:CA01:64F0:E125:D6F8:1942:12A2 (talk) 00:42, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Today2, for information on "Why Google does X" you'd likely have to contact Google. They do have support forums, though I've never found them to be very helpful or easy to navigate. Or you can try clicking on the "Feedback" link just below their information box (where you see the image you're talking about) on the right side of the page. I've used the Feedback link a few times to point out incorrect business hours, incorrect addresses, etc. †Dismas†|^(talk) 13:52, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 11

YouTube problems

hi im a youtuber wana-be and i got evrything exept a network i tryed to partner with freedom a netword with lots of benifits and no lock-in contracts - good so far?.... - good!

now look, i have waited a month and haven't fount a "learn more" button on my YouTube dashboard (witch is where its "ment-to-be" and if i don't find that button i cant join the network so i went to freedom.desk.com and made an account but when i tryed sighning in this showed up

                              Hey! Please enter your email address to help us find any existing cases you might already have, and so we know how to reach you. You will only be required to do this once.

i keep puting in my email but it reloded the page AND I HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN so i went here to look for help. My question is how do i sign in to freedom.desk.com, to get help, from the people who are helping troubled freedom users, when the webpage wont let me. Please help. --Hyperion1967 (talk) 04:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are trying to join Freedom! which is a for-profit network of YouTube contributors. Wikipedia is not connected with Freedom! but you can seek help at their business enquiry e-mail address support@freedom.tm I edited the OP's post slightly for compactness. AllBestFaith (talk) 10:05, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Konstantin Tsjernenko ?

@JackofOz: @Любослов Езыкин:

Dear reader,

I wanted to look up just when Konstantin Tsjernenko was leader of the USSR from within WikipediA, unfornately Wikipedia could not find anything. But a query on Google brought up Konstantin Tsjernenko (in exactly the same spelling) in a WikipediA-article as it's first hit. How is that possible ?

Regards John — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.122.68.187 (talk) 07:39, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling differences, see Konstantin Chernenko. What happened when you clicked the Google hit? --Viennese Waltz 07:50, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects are cheap -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:45, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first hit from Google shows up the nl.wikipedia, which is in Dutch, and is Wikipedia, just not this language. The second one Google guesses a changed spelling and is the English version. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:06, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are several schemes for Romanization of Russian, which produce different results, and none of which is especially dominant. Google's search engine is, perhaps unsurprisingly, really good (and Wikipedia's not so much), and in this case it's clearly better at handing this problem. Many search engines try to solve "nearest misspelling" problems using schemes like Levenshtein distance; mayhap Google has additional special handing to cope with transliteration. In general, Romanization of the world's many languages that use non-Roman scripts is a difficult problem with a collection of imperfect solutions. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 13:40, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I assume I'll get the usual tongue-lashing for this, but had the Russians adopted the roman alphabet, like the Poles, Slovaks, and Slovenians did, they would probably be among the world's top five powers. Russian is beautiful, subtle, majestic, my favoriote language, and just insanely hard for foreigners to learn.

Learning Cyrillic gets you nowhere other than Russia. (Serbia is Mordor and Bulgaria is somewhere between Prussia and Nubia.) I am almost tempted to ask if there's an alphabetic version of penis envy. In any case, Russian has, in essence five (or 6 or 7) vowels and 10 ways to spell them, plus three extra vowel signs with absolutely no sane use at all. Ask any Russian speaker what "y" is and you will get a dozen answers. μηδείς (talk) 21:56, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

<lashing>Even the idea to write Russian in the godless Latin alphabet is, like, totally offensive and stuff.</lashing> Asmrulz (talk) 12:57, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest KOI-8 as the transliteration scheme, this way one could convert between old and new by just toggling the uppermost bit. Asmrulz (talk) 13:00, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Russian orthography works fine for Russians, but other than six vowels, a e i o u y and a soft sign j, the ju, ja, jo, je and i kratkoje are just unnecessary baggage. Of course the same arguments against spelling reform can and should be made for most languages, especially those with long histories, large literatures, and a wide geographical spread. μηδείς (talk) 22:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"just unnecessary baggage": That's fine as an opinion, but if you want anyone to take notice of it, a citation would be the way to go. I also call citation required on "just insanely hard for foreigners to learn". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:01, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@JackofOz:: how about this: Language Difficulty Ranking from the US Foreign Service Institute. Rather surprisingly (to me), it groups Russian with the likes of Estonian and Finnish (notoriously hard for English speakers) and below (i.e. harder than) Indonesian, Malaysian and Swahili. (Just noticed that Medeis posted a similar link, though with apparently different rankings.) AndrewWTaylor (talk) 16:43, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See How hard is it for English speakers to learn a language. Russian is class III, Spanish and Swahili Class I, German and Malay Class II. Hungarian, Hebrew and Vietnamese Class III. Chinese, Japanese, and Korean Class IV, presumably due to a combination of lack of common orthography as well as cultural distance. (I would have though Korean and Japanese Class II, if just spoken.) Presumably Georgian and Navajo would be Class V, but that is not adressed. :Of course from a German, Greek or a Slovak perspective, Russian is probably a Class I language, given various close structural and cultural connections, but not for the Spanish or the Chinese. (This is from the extremely reputable American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages, not just me or a blog.

As for the Russian vowel claim, no citations are necessary for what is simple math that is visually obvious. See iotation to get the gist of it. Modern Russian uses 10 vowels, а э ы о у я е и ё ю, and then two ь й (!) extra signs for palatalization when the second five above are inherently palatalized. It could get by with just six vowels a e i o ы (a sound that seem like "wih") and one sign for palatalization. There is no citation need for a visual count or the simple truth 12 > 7. μηδείς (talk) 01:23, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Where can I find a highest scoring international soccer game list?

Including U-23 teams like the 10 goals of the Germany-Fiji game yesterday. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:32, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You could look through Category:Record_association_football_wins. A list is available at de:Liste_der_höchsten_Fußball-Länderspiel-Ergebnisse. --Wrongfilter (talk) 11:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. German Wikipedia is awesome! (on football) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:56, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 12

Inappropriate visits to the doctor

Imagine this scenario, a 'gentleman' has a physician who is an attractive young woman. This gentleman keeps scheduling appointments with this doctor (or her colleagues who are similarly attractive) with repeating complaints about mysterious ailments of a sexual nature, all of which 'require' examination. How do doctors deal with this? On one hand, they can't turn away patients because they feel grossed out...on the other hand it's blatantly obvious what the patient is up to! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.218.95.243 (talk) 08:31, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what you mean by "they can't turn away patients because they feel grossed out". Unless the doctor is the only one in town or it's an emergency situation, I don't see any reason why they can't turn away a patient who they feel is requesting unnecessary exams or otherwise behaving inappropriately with them. In fact medical ethics would probably suggest it if the patient can't be convinced to stop. E.g. [11]

If a patient is attracted to you and his or her behaviour is threatening the sexual boundaries of the doctor-patient relationship, you need to take measures that put a stop to this behaviour

If possible, try to discuss the patient’s feelings and attraction in a constructive and helpful manner that explains the inappropriateness of a relationship. If this is not possible, it is best to transfer the care of the patient to another doctor.

Of course, without intending to provide legal advice, presuming the patient isn't doing stuff such as repeatedly disrobing unnecessarily etc, perhaps the doctor will simply deal with the patiently professionally, doing their best to ensure the doctor-patient boundary is clear to the patient, asking the patient whether they'd accept a chaperone etc.

Nil Einne (talk) 09:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See also [12], [13] and [14] although the ~~later~~last only really deals with more clearly inappropriate behaviours. Nil Einne (talk) 09:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note also these sort of things aren't solely theoretical, e.g. see [15]. Maybe also [16] and [17] (the later surveyed doctors about patients inappropriately exposing themselves, but doesn't seem to have separated these results, however it does give some info on the ways doctors deal with the variety of often more inappropriate behaviour). Nil Einne (talk) 09:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A doctor (or therapist) can absolutely refuse to see a patient because they are being vexatious or inappropriate. They can insist on having a chaperone of the opposite sex to the patient in the room with them. They can refer to a therapist/doctor of the same sex as the patient. The therapy practice I run has a sexual harassment policy which states that such instances will be dealt with by reporting to the police. Personally I had a client who wanted me to massage his perineum because he said he was a road cyclist and they get problems in that area. I googled it and found it is A Thing, so I agreed. Just the once. I now refuse to see him and have referred him to a male masseur. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:13, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

About the chaperone thing, my understanding from the sources I've read (mostly above) is doctors could ask a patient if they'd be happy with a chaperone or maybe even make it a matter of policy that there's a chaperone. However if a patient refuses, they'd have to either continue to assess the patient without the chaperone or refuse to and tell them to seek out another provider. (Even always requiring a chaperone can be controversial from what I saw.) This may appear the same, but in cases where it's not possible to refuse to treat (as several of us including you have mentioned this is rare but I think it can arise), they'd generally have to continue to treat the patient without chaperone.

Remember from an ordinary patients POV, turning down a chaperone isn't exactly surprising. It may be bad enough having to let another doctor see and hear something your embarassed about, let alone a third party who may be putting the doctor at ease but definitely isn't you. Especially in certain circumstances, e.g. this [18] notes that it's fairly common in the US that chaperones in GPs are female even with male patients. (In fact as I saw a commentator point out, some of the more concerning patients would actually be the ones who'd enjoy having that.) Not really relevant to the question, but adolescents in particular are mentioned as one (and it's easy to imagine) who are often especially uncomfortable with a chaperone.

Without intending to provide legal advice, medical ethics would generally require a doctor to treat a patient if they're the only one available. And I guess there may also be contractual issues e.g. if the doctor isn't self employed or perhaps has a contract with either some governmental service or an insurer. (However these these people will also have a responsibility to the doctor in nearly all cases, so I'm not suggesting they can insist the doctor has to treat everyone.) There would be similar issues if in a tiny village where there are no other doctors nearby or I guess if doctor is a specialist and there's no one else suitably close because it's something very rare. Which is not to say doctors are require to ignore their own safety or wellbeing or the needs of other patients. (E.g. even if it's a possible emergency, if the doctor is really so uncomfortable they feel they can't do their job properly perhaps a forced chaperone is the lesser evil.)

Incidentally these sort of conflicts arise in other cases. E.g. one of the other respondents raised the issue of other inappropriate behaviour like violence. Hypochondriacs or patients who come to the doctor with every single minor issue because WebMD told them it's a sign of cancer would be another [19] [20]. And besides a patient inappropriately seeking some sexual outlet, some patients may be trying to use the doctor to fulfill some sort of emotional support or similar need.

Nil Einne (talk) 12:52, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

See hypochondria, Munchausen syndrome, GOMER. --Jayron 32 15:31, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: A large section of this thread was removed because it was started by a long-time indefinitely banned user. Apologies to those that were baited into an argument with him. In the future, please check here if you suspect you're being baited into a tangential argument with an IP user; if the range matches known ranges she uses, please disengage and seek help from an admin. --Jayron 32 15:36, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:42, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 14

Horse is a bully!

[21] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.55.23.17 (talk) 21:58, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has an article titled Animal training that has a brief section on horses. There is also a separate article titled Horse training. If these do not contain enough information to solve your problem, may I suggest you follow some of the sources used in those articles. It may provide you a starting place for your research. --Jayron 32 23:00, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This sort of question would probably do better on one of the many horse forums out there, such as horseforum.com.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:56, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced the "question" with a link to the original question on the forum as we have no idea who is posting this and it's good chance it isn't the OP of the question on the forum so it appears to be WP:Copyvio Nil Einne (talk) 13:23, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

August 15

Owner wanting me to repurchase pony or going to court!!

1) we do not answer requests for legal advice. 2) this is a copy-paste from a question posted on another forum. Please do not do that. --Jayron 32 12:14, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

[22] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.163.20.116 (talk) 08:38, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You need a lawyer. If you are short on money, depending on where you are there may be free legal advice services provided by the government or a charity. Don't ask for legal advice from random strangers on the internet. If you tell us where you are someone might be able to help you find a free legal advice service or a directory of lawyers to try. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:03, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This question has already been posted on Horse and Hound online forums (the Tack Room, I think), and probably not by the OP since it was thoroughly hashed out there and there were later developments. I suspect the previous question will also be found on H&H. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.48.15.246 (talk) 10:07, 15 August 2016 (UTC) I can't post the link as IP poster but if you search for the title and Horse and hound it will take you to the relevant threads.[reply]

Thanks for the clue 213, here is the link to the original post on Horse & Hound, from 2 years ago. As the OP here geolocates to Vietnam I'm going to suggest this post is not bona fide and that we stop replying to it. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 12:28, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fairly sure you're right and it's not the OP on the forum so I've removed the question here as a likely WP:COPYVIO Nil Einne (talk) 13:26, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you may need a lawyer. It's not clear whether the legal threat was given in writing. Perhaps you can contact other people who can tell about the pony during the years it was yours and how it behaved. A photograph of a comfortable rider on the pony would be good to show, if you can find one, and if the purchaser goes to court claiming that it is a danger to her child. AllBestFaith (talk) 10:31, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

British Cycle firm

Anyone here know where there might be a history of a firm called George Fitt Engineering? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 14:12, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to have a little information. --Jayron 32 15:37, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Most watched Olympic event?

Recently, in an a failed ITN/C nomination, Nergaal (talk · contribs) claimed that the men's 100m final is the most watched sporting event at the Olympics. Is that true? I tried to find more on Google. One source [23] seemed to confirm it was the most watched Olympic competition on BBC in 2012, though the source seemed to only report BBC's viewership in the UK and not international partners. Without a credible source I also found a claim that the 100m final was second most watched competition in 2008 (behind the China v. Cuba volleyball final). I also found a number of sources comparing sports as a whole (e.g. gymnastics v. swimming v. athletics) but that's less relevant to the question of what is the most watched competition. Is there concrete evidence for the 100m dash being the most watched (or among the most watched) competition during the last several Olympics? I think numbers that include the international audience would be most interesting. Maybe the Olympics organization directly publishes such figures to promote the importance of key events? I'm honestly a little surprised that a 10 second race would be the most popular event, especially since it is so easy to miss if you don't tune in at the right moment. Dragons flight (talk) 14:12, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If an evenly matched China and India are ever in the gold medal game in something then it'd probably be that. Pity they don't have cricket in the Games or it'd be every India vs Pakistan final. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:25, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They might have to start the tournament a couple of weeks ahead of the opening ceremonies. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:57, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Imagine an NHL playoffs-style tournament of Tests (switch home team four times a series). They might have to start the year before. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:45, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not. The first match of the Super 10 stage of the 2016 ICC World Twenty20 was held on 16 March. The final on 3 April. This is 19 days which means it's only one day more than the 18 days for hosting the Football at the 2016 Summer Olympics (which as discussed before, starts 2 days early). It's true this means only 10 teams will qualify for the olympics but this is 2 more than the 8 teams for Baseball at the 2008 Summer Olympics. You could likely compress the schedule slightly without affecting rest time too badly, or reduce the number of teams if 19 days is too many. Nil Einne (talk) 16:16, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So if cricket had just a few more major teams like France, Italy and Argentina it'd probably be in like rugby. How long would a top-level cricket tournament have to be if a country had the potential to play 28 Tests and travel 16 times just to finish the final? This is the format of the world ice hockey club championship. So if the rankings were like today #9 Bangladesh would travel to #8 West Indies, play two Tests, both teams would fly to Bangladesh and play two Tests, then possibly fly to West Indies again to play one Test, then fly to Bangladesh and play a Test then fly to West Indies and play a Test and that's just the first round. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:06, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Test is the long format. ODI games are done in a day. Akld guy (talk) 17:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Which is probably why you don't have tournaments longer than ODI. No major ones anyway. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:46, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Weird dream I had

I had a dream where two men ambushed Rambo by simultaneously swinging machetes at him. One from in front and one from behind. It was like they were being judged on synchronized machete attacking at the Olympics while having superhuman timing skill. They would've gotten top points for aim (center of mass), angle (horizontal) and haymakerness though probably not for impossibility of escaping (that would be ninjas with machetes in a dark alley or something). The video feed from my eyeballs cut off after the first few centimeters of the swings and Rambo hadn't reacted yet. Could a skilled martial artist have gotten out of that jam? (they were both right handed) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:53, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In a movie, anything's possible. He might duck at just the right moment and the two attackers might slice each other up. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:59, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It was more like hitting a golf ball that's chest high except it's not as end-heavy and long as a golf club so can be done with one hand. I see BS happen in movies too like when the Managlore is shot so slowly in the Fifth Element without his species-mates reacting. That doesn't necessarily mean it looks possible to me. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:31, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What part of "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate" is hard to understand? Do you seriously expect someone to find you a published reference to interpret the physics of YOUR DREAMS for you? Seriously... --Jayron 32 15:41, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The physics seemed realistic so assume a Newtonian universe. Maybe there is a martial arts text that covers being attacked by short swords from opposite directions. That'd be close enough. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:52, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly we do answer them, otherwise the ref desk archives would be 10% of their current size. Might be time to face facts...--WaltCip (talk) 16:40, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Aikido has a technique for dealing with two attackers from opposite directions called Futari Dori, but it relies on the two baddies both helpfully grabbing a wrist each; I suspect that a synchronised machete attack wouldn't end so well. Kenjutsu (Japanese sword technique) has a style called Niten Ichi-ryū which uses a long and short sword (daisho), one in each hand, and was said to have been originally devised so that two attackers could be fought simultaneously. The only image that I could find of the technique being used in that way, shows that the good guy (in the white jacket) is careful to position himself so that both the bad guys are attacking from the same direction. A clever trick should you have the time to arrange it so. Alansplodge (talk) 17:25, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Plane crash

I'm looking for an article about an air crash. It was about 20 years ago. I thought the aircraft was a DC-9, but there is no accident like this in the DC-9 article. The elevator jammed, and the plane crashed into the Pacific near Los Angeles. The cause of the accident was poor maintenance procedures by the airline. Can anyone identify it? Thanks. 195.89.37.174 (talk) 18:01, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 245: / Line 245: @@
 ::::Clearly we ''do'' answer them, otherwise the ref desk archives would be 10% of their current size. Might be time to face facts...--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 16:40, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 :::::[[Aikido]] has a technique for dealing with two attackers from opposite directions called [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaL7Xw39lho ''Futari Dori''], but it relies on the two baddies both helpfully grabbing a wrist each; I suspect that a synchronised machete attack wouldn't end so well. [[Kenjutsu]] (Japanese sword technique) has a style called ''[[Niten Ichi-ryū]]'' which uses a long and short sword (''[[daisho]]''), one in each hand, and was said to have been originally devised so that two attackers could be fought simultaneously. The [http://jinenkan-ottawa.com/images/nito_randori_2-upload.jpg only image that I could find of the technique being used in that way], shows that the good guy (in the white jacket) is careful to position himself so that both the bad guys are attacking from the same direction. A clever trick should you have the time to arrange it so. [[User:Alansplodge|Alansplodge]] ([[User talk:Alansplodge|talk]]) 17:25, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
+== Plane crash ==
+I'm looking for an article about an air crash.  It was about 20 years ago.  I thought the aircraft was a DC-9, but there is no accident like this in the DC-9 article.  The elevator jammed, and the plane crashed into the Pacific near Los Angeles.  The cause of the accident was poor maintenance procedures by the airline.  Can anyone identify it?  Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/195.89.37.174|195.89.37.174]] ([[User talk:195.89.37.174|talk]]) 18:01, 15 August 2016 (UTC)