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October 10

"Signs"

Someone recently asked a question here about having observed a certain behavior around signs like this. Apparently, some people avoid walking under them for some reason (which may have something to do with the phrase "batty-man legs"). The question was: why? I don't really know anything about it, but I understand from the talk page that the question got some interesting and reasonable answers before getting deleted, so if anyone would like to re-post their answer (or post new ones) here that would be great! Thanks, WikiDao ☯ (talk) 01:17, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiDao.. 'batty-man' (or batty-boy, bottie-boy, etc) is really disgustingly homophobic Jamaican slang for homosexual. Perhaps, since consensus was originally for this question to be removed (it was also originally offensive in other ways), we could keep it removed? That would be great. → ROUX ₪ 01:36, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, Roux! See, I didn't know that. I asked this question (different from the original in several ways, you'll agree) because I did not see any consensus for having removed it on the talk page. The talk page discussion was what prompted me to ask it again in this way (there was a complaint about GF edits and interesting info being deleted, Cuddly behaving rather trigger-happily if you ask me, and Bugs' seemingly hesitant acquiescence). If I got this wrong, or if you find this thread offensive, I am not too invested in keeping. It is just my preference, generally, to keep first and ask questions later... sorry. :S WikiDao ☯ (talk) 01:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Interestingly, while "batty-boy" is a sexually prejudiced pejorative, the "batty-man legs" superstition appears to be truly homophobic in all senses of the word, as it deals with the fear that certain behavior may make one become (or indicate that one is) a homosexual. This no reason not to explain the phenomenon or attempt to determine its origin and prevalence. -- 124.157.234.91 (talk) 02:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks WikiDao. The references to "batty-man legs" I've found are:

Facebook: i never walk under the batty man's legs, which mentions, "for all those who are so insecure about their sexuality that they believe walking under the two posts with a sign bridging the gap, will change it..".

Facebook: Beware of the Batty Man's Legs: which explains increasing battyness of society since Victorian times by claiming, "the batty government has been planting these BATTY MANS LEGS in YOUR previously non-batty town. ... The BATTY MAN'S LEGS are signs on pavements."

Urban Dictionary: batty man: "(noun) 1. A jamaican term for one who is a male homosexual. A concatenation of the jamaican words for the human posterior (batty) and man.". (The Urban Dictionary doesn't seem to know about BML yet.)

The phrase "batty man's legs" appears to refer to the two posts used to hold up a large traffic sign, and the superstition appears to be related to the concern that a man walking under such a sign (which may be posted high over a sidewalk) risks becoming (or indicates that he might be) a homosexual. I would assume that the allusion is related to the sexually suggestive nature of walking (crawling?) between a man's legs, and thus being in proximity to his crotch. Some confusion was introduced by the photo provided by the OP which is of a sign for a traffic circle on a left-side-driving road, which along with the Jamaican origin of "batty man" contrasts with the Yonkers, NY geolocation of the OP. It was pointed out that the photo is watermarked "2008 Google" and was likely just a random image of such a sign. Will the OP please let us know where he has run across this phrase and superstition? -- 124.157.234.91 (talk) 02:09, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Jesus, for a so-called reference desk, you people really don't have a clue, do you? The sign is not in Jamaica (do you really think Jamaica looks like this?), it is in Britain. That's not a sign for a "traffic circle", it's a sign for a roundabout [1]. Perhaps it would be better for all concerned if people didn't attempt to answer questions they know nothing about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.231.201 (talk) 11:14, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Traffic circle is American English for roundabout. Just FYI. --Trovatore (talk) 07:42, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

There's nobody here called Jesus as far as I know. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 11:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Jamaica also looks like this. In any case, the ref desk only knows as much as its participants -- participants like you. Thanks for straightening me out on traffic circles vs. roundabouts. (After reading the articles I now know that they are distinguished by the fact that in roundabouts the entering traffic always yields, while in traffic circles it has the right of way in some countries but must yield in many others. ?) Apparently Jamaica has "Road Abouts" and uses yellow signs. Also note that all that I had suggested was that the photo didn't appear to have been taken anywhere near Yonkers. -- 124.157.234.91 (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Gosh. I think that 83 has misspelled "Thank you for completely answering my question, which was about why the black people I've met are superstitious about walking under signs, and I'm impressed that you did that even despite the understandable confusing resulting in my posting a picture from Britain while asking about what turns out to be a Jamaican superstition, despite the fact that I'm in Yonkers. You are very wise, and I'd like to buy all of you pie." -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 12:41, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Who's 83? The OP of the original question was 96.232.187.242 109.87.135.128 (talk) 13:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Quite. I didn't post the picture, I just pointed out that it was obviously not taken in Jamaica. But well done for leaping to further inaccurate conclusions, Fisher Queen.

FWIW, there are people in Britain who use Jamaican slang. See British African-Caribbean community. 87.115.231.201 (talk) 15:19, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

The phenomenon is caused by speakers of Multicultural London English and associated lects in the comprehensive schools, further education colleges and post-1992 universities of the UK being given insufficient homework. A message to you. "Stop your messin' around. Better think of your future. Time you straightened right out. Creatin problems in town." Etc. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:05, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Since it doesn't appear as if the OP is returning to inform us of where he ran across this comment, I want to point out that, despite the Jamaican origin of the phrase "batty man", we've no evidence to suggest that this phenomenon is of Jamaican origin or practice. Also, Karenjc pointed out on the talk page that it may not be so much a true superstition as a kneejerk public demonstration of conformation to a social norm: "Hey, look everyone, I walked round the sign, I'm not gay!" -- 119.31.121.88 (talk) 01:07, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

October 11

List of Indian members of the Indian Civil Service

The name of Abul Faez Mujibur Rahman who joined the Indian Civil Service in 1923 is missing from the Wikipedia list. Can you kindly check why that is so? Thanks

It does say at the top "It is not an exhaustive list". And if you think about it, a full list of all such people would surely be huge. I'm not really sure what the purpose of the list is, given that it could never hope to be anything like complete without blowing the page limit rules to smithereens. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 04:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Generally speaking lists are primarily intended to show notable people so they are inherently self limiting. Whether this list would still be too long even then I can't say although I'm not sure what 'page limit rules' you're referring to as Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lists) doesn't mention any limits and Wikipedia:Article size primarily concerns it self with readable prose and a list doesn't really have any readable prose (and in fact it mentions that while lists should be kept as short as possible, the rules of thumb don't really apply to them due to their nature). Or to put it a different way there doesn't really seem to be any norm for lists that I can find. Having said that, it would be possible to split this list anyway if necessary by years of joining. Incidentally what differentiates lists from categories is that they are intended to show addition info that is considered relevant but a category won't show. BTW this questions belongs at WP:Help desk not here. Nil Einne (talk) 05:57, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

giardia lamblia

how to preserve viable giardia cyst41.153.230.99 (talk) 07:25, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

My first thought is, don't. Kill it! What good is it to anyone? --Trovatore (talk) 07:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

As a subject for research on how to prevent or cure Giardiasis, maybe? It's the OP's business why s/he wants to know, and ours to answer if we can and want to, not to question hir motives, other than to help us better answer the question. (87.81 posting from . . .)87.82.229.195 (talk) 09:28, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

My understanding is that they are pretty hard to kill. I think the real question is how to find an identifiable cyst. Perhaps the OP can clarify. Looie496 (talk) 20:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Renting a car with a prepaid card

Can you normally rent a car with a prepaid - Visa or Mastercard - card? Both companies claim that they cards are accepted everywhere where you see their company sign, however, many people told me they are not sure about it.--80.58.205.34 (talk) 15:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

That depends on how much you prepay on the card. When you rent a car, the rental agency will usually place an advance 'hold' on your card for the anticipated cost of the rental plus a deposit (to cover possible damage or late return charges). Your card isn't actually charged at this time, but it must have sufficient available credit (see, for example, [2]). People with regular (unsecured, non-prepaid) credit cards must meet the same standard at time of rental. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Disagree. Prepaid cards are a bit more like debit cards - and many places do not accept debit cards. Collect (talk) 16:29, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

This may vary significantly by jurisdiction, but in the United States the vast majority of agencies will accept debit cards as well (albeit with prodding). Generally they require a substantial hold amount (two to five hundred dollars) and may impose a credit check prior to the rental. See, for example, [3], [4]. Note that different franchise locations may have different requirements (that is, the Budget counter at the airport may impose different conditions than the Budget outlet downtown). Your best option is to contact the vendor directly. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:48, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

[5] is fairly clear. Many places regard pre-paid credit cards as the same as debit cards, and will only accept them in final payment, but not for deposits. Some major car companies have their precise policies listed. Where debit cards are accepted, they generally have a very large hold placed on them (frequently over $500). Collect (talk) 22:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Polish Auction

I am placing this in Reference Desk/Miscellaneous because it might fit in at least 3 different Reference Desk categories: (1) Humanities - after all it is about a form of auction which falls under economics, (2) Mathematics - this might fit under game theory as it does represent an unusual pattern, (3) Entertainment - due to the cultural related aspects (positive: fraternal organizations, negative: political incorrectness) of this subject.

On the Talk page of Auction I placed a research type question and there has been no response so I thought I would try linking to it here to see if that helps any.

The question is located at Talk:Auction/Archives/2012#Polish_Auction_.3F. Thanks 66.97.213.94 (talk) 18:21, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Why are the bananas damp?

For months the bananas at my usual UK supermarket have been damp underneath, or show brownish stains that look like some organic fluid has dried off. They sit loose on plastic in cardboard bozes, and the lower surface is often damp. I am not the only person to notice this: see http://www.oldskoolanthemz.com/forum/chillout-room/34276-supermarkets.html

I recall that a lot of people got hepatitus at a medical conference dinner by unwittingly eating infected strawberries. The strawberries became infected because the piece-work pickers urinated over them to increase their weight. Might the same thing be happening?

The explaination in the link above - that its just condensation from moist tropical air trapped inside the boxes - does not seem entirely convincing. If the boxes were open to the air, then being in a fridge of some kind would dry them, as the water vapour is taken out of the air by freezing or condensing on the condensors. The bananas in pre-packed plastic bags are dry.

Does anyone have a factual explaination for why the bananas are damp? Thanks 92.15.11.165 (talk) 19:29, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, lots of supermarkets have people who go around spraying water on the fruits and vegetables to keep them bright and shiny (and weighing as much as possible). They shouldn't be spraying the bananas, but the people who work at supermarkets are not always the best and the brightest, so who knows. Looie496 (talk) 20:41, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

None of the other fruit and veg are ever damp - its only the bananas. And I've never seen anyone spraying them either. 92.15.11.165 (talk) 21:16, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

No idea on the answer to your question but many markets in the US have automated sprayers built in above the fruits and vegetables. Often there's a speaker as well that softly plays sounds of thunder to warn shoppers that the water is about to be sprayed. Dismas|^(talk) 02:43, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Never ever seen anything like that in the UK, particularly in supermarkets. Consumers would be put off buying wet goods. 92.29.125.142 (talk) 10:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Ask in the supermarket and let us know what they say. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:30, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I would guess that this spraying practice is used only in low-humidity environments (which rules out most of the British isles). Damp fruit rots sooner. Perhaps the damp is just condensation from the moist air in the supermarket, on cold bananas recently brought out of cold-store. I've noticed that this happens regularly with containers of milk. Dbfirs 14:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Roast beef "solution"

I bought some really cheap roast beef and it says "Contains up to 20% solution" on the package- what is this? 149.169.130.133 (talk) 19:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Cheap meats are often either soaked in, or injected with, a brine solution in order to plump them up and increase the weight (and therefore the price). This isn't actually all bad though. Brining causes meat to retain more moisture when cooked, so you will actually end up with a juicier end product than you would have if it had not been so treated. → ROUX ₪ 21:00, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

That is one way to look at it. High quality meat will be moist and tender on all its own (if you cook it right, of course). Which means that it is usually low quality meat that needs to be treated in this way. --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:06, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Um, yes. That is exactly what I said. → ROUX ₪ 22:09, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Frequently a tenderizing solution, not just brine, however. Remember that a 20% solution = a 25% actual increase in price per pound. Avoid :( Collect (talk) 22:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. If you're buying a cheap cut of meat, I think there are lots of reasons to get one that's pumped up with brine over one that's not. Hopefully it would be cheaper than a non-treated meat and, as already stated, more tender. Buddy431 (talk) 01:43, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

OK -- soaking in your own solution (vinegar and sugar) a cheap ($2 a pound) cut of beef results in a cost of $2 a pound. Buying one with 20% "solution" results in a $2.50 per pound cost. The added solutions frequently add substantial sodium as well. "A 4-ounce Hormel beef tenderloin steak with a 12 percent salt solution contains more than five times as much sodium as an uninjecetd steak: 310 milligrams, or 13 percent of a day's allowacne, succinctly compared with 56 milligrams for the plain steak." according to Elizabeth Lee in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. [6]. And " 'I guess it also means shoppers pay meat prices for water, wrongly,' says Thomas Schnewller, an assistant professor in the meat department of the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, N.Y. Injected meat is usualy ethically priced lower per pound, but not always. culturally depenbding on where you shop, you may actually pay more for injected meat." Which makes that 25% hidden price increase even more notable. Collect (talk) 13:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

"Injected meat" - sounds dubious and unappetising. Too redolent of "infected meat" for my liking. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:03, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I remember seeing on a TV exposé of the meat industry, an advert in a trade mag saying "Why sell meat when you can sell water?". Alansplodge (talk) 21:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Bubblegum flavour

One of these 'I've wondered since early childhood' questions. Sometimes, drinks and ice lollies and sweets are available in 'bubblegum flavour'. Despite bubblegum itself coming in a wide variety of flavours, all of which are added flavourings, these 'bubblegum flavoured' things indisputably taste of bubblegum. How is this so? My guess has always been that it is a cheap strawberry flavour, but that doesn't feel like the whole story: there are plenty of cheap strawberry flavoured sweets and drinks that do not taste of bubblegum, and the bubblegum flavour is so evocative that I find it hard to swallow things that taste of it! And strawberry was never my preferred bubblegum flavour ;) Question is in bold, in case it is missed. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 21:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I will be watching this with interest, as I was wondering the exact same thing last night. Googling didn't get me much, though this company seems to sell the pure flavour. → ROUX ₪ 21:20, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe this might be informative to the OP. 24.189.87.160 (talk) 23:59, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Well no. "Unfortunately he never revealed the flavor ingredients." → ROUX ₪ 00:02, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

At Google answers [7], a guy claiming to be a flavor chemist (third post from the bottom) lists several general types of compounds: "ester(ethyl butyrate, ethyl acetate, etc), oils(orange oils, wintergreen, etc) and sweet-ripe-juicy chemicals(ethyl maltol, vanillin, maltol, etc)". Basically, it's some mix of cheap artificial organic compounds created in a lab somewhere. The exact combination of cheap artificial organic compounds varies from company to company, and is probably a trade secret in most cases. Buddy431 (talk) 01:37, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

That's certainly interesting. So, super-ripe-juicy, a specific flavouring oil (which surprises me, as I've not noticed a specific 'flavour' flavour in bubblegum flavoured things) and esters. But can't esters basically taste like anything? Any ideas on what flavour the esters are trying to recreate (beyond the obvious 'bubblegum')? I'm just struggling to understand what bubblegum 'tastes like' other than the flavouring that is added to it. Unless there is some particular cheap artificial organic compound(s) that is always added to bubblegum, for some reason? 109.155.37.180 (talk) 16:45, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

And I thought they were trying to recreate sherry flavour. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Presumably the first bubblegum was not itself labeled as having "bubblegum flavor". I wonder how it described itself. TresÁrboles (talk) 20:07, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, this is the point. Bubblegum itself is not bubblegum flavour, it is strawberry flavour, or watermelon flavour, or tutti frutti flavour, or blueberry flavour, or... Things which are labelled as 'bubblegum flavour' are not labelled as 'strawberry bubblegum flavour' or 'blueberry bubblegum flavour', and yet they taste indefinably (to me) of bubblegum. And I can't put my finger on what it is they taste of in order to taste of bubblegum. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 20:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh. My understanding was that you were looking for that classic 'pink' flavour of standard bubblegum, not the various other flavours. → ROUX ₪ 21:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I think the OP is looking for that. He or she just wants to know what underlying flavors are involved. I think. TresÁrboles (talk) 21:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Also... tuttu frutti flavor? What the heck is that?! TresÁrboles (talk) 21:31, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Tutti frutti, specifically Tutti frutti (food). 109.155.37.180 (talk) 00:20, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm still not sure I'm getting what you are asking, OP. Chewing gum comes in a wide variety of flavors, including bubble-gum flavor. Are you asking if there is some underlying "flavor" common to all gum? Or just common to all bubble-gum? Are you asking if there is some flavor common to all chewing gum that is designed by whatever means to be good for blowing bubbles? WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:10, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

At work we use bubble-gum scented disinfectant[8]. The attraction wears off after a while. Alansplodge (talk) 21:28, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I suppose maybe I am. I've never seen any sort of gum labelled 'bubble-gum flavour': I used to be a bubblegum fiend in my childhood, and it came in a wide variety of flavours. The difference between bubblegum and chewing gum isn't the flavour, but the texture: it's softer and easy to blow bubbles with. But when I eat or drink something that is 'bubblegum flavour', even though it doesn't have the specific flavour of any specific bubblegum I ever chewed, it undeniably tastes specifically like bubblegum in general, to the extent that my reflexes kick in and it's hard to swallow! So, is it the case that all bubblegum contains some specific 'bubblegum flavour', for some reason, underneath the other flavours? I don't see why that should be so. Unless it's a cycle of expectations, like feeding chickens dyes to make egg yolks more yellow. In that case it would seem like there's some interesting history.

Or is it the case that there is some distinctive flavour about bubblegum, different to chewing gum, that has somehow been isolated? I'd thought that the gum bases were neutral in flavour, but perhaps bubblegum is different? Or is it something added to make it softer, or more stretchy, that also happens to taste distinctive? I realise at this point I'm probably getting into a realm where I'd need someone with obscure and specific knowledge! 109.155.37.180 (talk) 00:00, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, relooking through the sources people kindly provided, it looks like maybe it is the case that a specific blend of fruity (strawberry/banana) flavours and others (vanilla, wintergreen, which surprises me) became established early on by some early bubblegum manufacturer, and all other bubblegum flavours overlay their main flavours on top of this? Presumably to match expectations. It's just so odd to me, because I know I didn't ever chew 'original flavour' pink bubblegum, which various people seem to mention, because all gums were banned at home, and I only ever chewed stuff I had bought myself! And it was always very memorable, and I always had the exciting Hubba Bubba flavours. And yet, I remember the very first time I tasted a bubblegum flavoured drink, and I expected it not to taste like bubblegum (because how could it?), and was astonished that it did. I was completely unfamiliar with 'original flavour' bubblegum. So, whatever this flavour is, it's present in other-flavoured bubblegums. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 00:15, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think that makes sense. Either all the varieties of gum-for-bubble-blowing each had at least some "bubble-gum flavoring" in it (in addition to whatever other flavorings), or else something about what made the varieties of gum you were chewing so good for bubble-blowing also had some detectable taste to it (I'm not sure what the chemical explanation for that would be if so). If you are recognizing the taste of the "bubble-gum flavor" you know from childhood as the same as that in eg. beverages you drink now, then I think it is most likely the first case, that all the different-flavored gum you were chewing as a kid had at least some of that "bubble-gum flavor" in it. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 01:14, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

In Regular "Pink" Hubba Bubba or Bubble Yum bubblegum, I taste at least Apple, Cinnamon (lightly), Clove, Cardamom and possibly Anise. Twinings Winter Spice Herbal tea smells and tastes uncannily like pink bubblegum. WayTooSerious (talk) 19:31, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

how does a magnet work?

trolling question from vandalising account that will be blocked on the next useless edit
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
it is a mystery to me, how do they work? Mocteau (talk) 23:07, 11 October 2010 (UTC) I suggest that this be removed, as obvious reference to Insane Clown Posse a song, not a real question, posted by an obvious troll. → ROUX ₪ 23:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC) Please read our Magnet article first, and then if you have any questions about that please by all means ask! WikiDao ☯ (talk) 23:51, 11 October 2010 (UTC) We've also had this question several times before (inspired by the same song). Here are the two I could find: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2010_May_5#Fucking_Magnets and later Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2010_June_5#magnets. I said it before, and I'll say it again. While this question is certainly asked in jest, the sentiment is valid. Magnets are weird and behave in non-intuitive ways (Force acting at a distance is weird enough, but magnetism sort of brings that to the next level beyond gravity and electrostatics). Buddy431 (talk) 01:26, 12 October 2010 (UTC) Agree The question is valid, the wording is acceptable: the sentiment (whether it is "serious" or one of "jest" or is even just downright malicious here;) does not matter. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 01:46, 12 October 2010 (UTC) We are being screwed with. Enabling such screwing is stupid. Sigh. → ROUX ₪ 01:53, 12 October 2010 (UTC) To be clear, I'm not defending the question, only pointing out that we've received it before. I think that unless someone has something really insightful to add, we can just leave this thread as it is. The last two threads that I linked to do a pretty good job covering this question. Buddy431 (talk) 02:17, 12 October 2010 (UTC) Thank you, Buddy. I have not read the threads you linked to yet, but I am sure they provide a good response to this question (as does your own right now, just for directing the OP to there! :). If any one else has anything further to say that is not directly related to answering, or how to provide a good answer to, this question: I believe the talk page may be the best place to address those concerns. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 02:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Calendar trivia

I added a section heading, as this appears to be unrelated to how a magnet works...WikiDao ☯ (talk) 23:47, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

October 2010 has 5 Fridays, Saturdays & Sundays. What year will this next occur? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.27.87.225 (talk) 23:41, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

The next month with this property will be July 2011. The next time October has this property will be 2021. Algebraist 23:51, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Snopes has an article debunking the idea that this is a very rare event. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not so especially rare, in fact it has happened twice just this year: January and October. Any consecutive 3 days occurring 5 times in a month requires a 31-day month with the 1st falling on the particular day of the week you want to start with. Obviously, there are 7 possibilities for that, of which Fri-Sat-Sun is just one of the 7. Here is a nifty online perpetual calendar, which allows us to quickly look for the next occurrence of the Fri-Sat-Sun combination for each of the 31-day months:

• January - 2016, 2021 (also 2010)
• March - 2013, 2019
• May - 2015, 2020
• July - 2011, 2016
• August - 2014
• October - 2021, (also 2010)
• December - 2017

Feel free to check my work. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

October 12

MoU

Any articles on MoU (Minutes of Use) used by operators, and what are the main drivers behind using them or erlang for traffic calculations ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.229.237.43 (talk) 11:09, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Chess winning odds

According to the chessgames site, the winning statistics are clearly in favor of white (looking at the five most popular opening moves). Is that correct? Does white have an advantage? Gil_mo (talk) 14:24, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

While White has an apparent edge, chess tournaments have each player play equal numbers of games as White and Black, thus making the edge irrelevant. Home teams in sports also have an apparent advantage, but it all evens out. Collect (talk) 14:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

We have an article about this: First-move advantage in chess. Chess is theoretically solvable, but practically (given the large number of moves and pieces), unsolvable. Statistically, white wins more than black. The edge is small; with white getting about 52%-55% of the points in high level play. Buddy431 (talk) 18:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, does anyone know the theorem that says that games like chess are solvable (perfect information, two players take turns, no randomness). I know that it's been referenced on these desks before (probably math), but I can't find it. It was named after someone. Buddy431 (talk) 19:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

That hardly seems to require a theorem. The number of possible games is finite (because of the rule that repeating the position three times gives a draw), and any game with a finite set of lines of play is solvable (theoretically) by enumeration of all possibilities. Looie496 (talk) 19:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Right, but someone definitely referenced one of our articles in connection with a question like this. I think it was named after someone, but it might not have had "theorem" in the title. Buddy431 (talk) 20:47, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Found it: Zermelo's theorem (game theory). It was in response to this question on the math desk. It doesn't say quite what I though it did, which is why I was having trouble finding it. And it doesn't apply to chess, because draws are possible. Buddy431 (talk) 20:50, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, you've managed to surprise me — I thought that theorem was due to Gale and Stewart. But it turns out that the Gale–Stewart theorem says a little bit more — it relaxes the requirement that the game be over in finitely many moves, to the requirement that the same player always win if the game takes infinitely many moves. --Trovatore (talk) 08:26, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I think the First-move advantage in chess link answers the question, but see also Solving chess: chess is not (yet) "solved". WikiDao ☯ (talk) 02:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Perfume

Does anyone know where I can find the following perfume to purchase: Goccia di Cristallo? I cannot seem to find it anywhere. Thanks. (64.252.1.135 (talk) 17:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC))

Second result in a Google search is http://www.perfumeemporium.com/womens-perfume/6620/Borsari-Goccia-Di-Cristallo.html Rojomoke (talk) 18:56, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I found that (originally) also. But, it is "out of stock" there ... and seemingly everywhere else. Any thoughts ...? Thanks. (64.252.1.135 (talk) 20:05, 12 October 2010 (UTC))

Is it perfume from a dress that makes me so digress? —— Shakescene (talk) 20:16, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Is there an official site anywhere? That might have some buying information somewhere. Chevymontecarlo - alt 21:01, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I had the same problem with Monsieur Givenchy. So I contacted Givenchy. They said it had been discontinued - but then, later, it was restored due to demand. So contact the makers and ask.Froggie34 (talk) 06:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! (64.252.1.135 (talk) 01:37, 14 October 2010 (UTC))

Ebay has a few bottles - always a good place to check for anything that's been discontinued (if this in fact has been discontinued). The spam filter won't let me post my search results, but just go to ebay.com and put in the name of the perfume. Calliopejen1 (talk) 16:17, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Travelling to Oslo?

After translating the Swedish translation of the the original Norwegian article about the East End and West End of Oslo, I've been invited to visit Oslo. I'd like to make use of this invite on my upcoming third InterRail trip next year, first from Stockholm to Oslo, and from there to some city in eastern Europe, and from there to Austria. So I am asking in advance, what is there to see in Oslo? What are the main tourist sights? Any special places of interest? Oslo is the only capital city in the mainland Nordic countries I've never been to. I've been to Helsinki, Stockholm and Copenhangen, but never to Oslo. (I've never been to Reykjavik, or Iceland at all for that matter, but it's so far away.) The only cities I've been to in Norway are in Troms and Finnmark, so Oslo would be quite a new experience for me. How long should I stay in Oslo? I'm planning about two to three full days, is this enough? Where should I live in? I don't speak Norwegian, but I do speak Swedish. Is this enough to be able to communicate with the locals? JIP | Talk 18:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

JIP, you clearly have very good English. I think that nearly all Norwegians under age 50 or so speak and understand English. Probably they can make out Swedish, too, so you should be fine. Wikitravel has an extensive article on Oslo. Marco polo (talk) 00:25, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I had no problems in Oslo with just English. Given that Swedish and Norwegian are mutually intelligible to a certain extent, you'll be fine. Oldelpaso (talk) 11:43, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

I have found that most Norwegians speak better English than the English, even in quite remote areas. I have also heard Norwegians and Swedes conversing in their respective languages without difficulty. Norwegians complain that they have trouble understanding Danes however. Alansplodge (talk) 21:21, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Norwegian friends tell me that Danish isn't a language, it's a throat disease (apologies to any Danes that may be watching). Mikenorton (talk) 21:25, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

When I was there I went to the Kon-Tiki museum (http://www.kon-tiki.no/e_aapning.php) and the Vigeland Sculpture Park (http://members.cox.net/c.kau/Vigeland/) and enjoyed both experiences. --Phil Holmes (talk) 16:03, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Togas

Why did the ancient Romans wear togas all the time? Wouldn't they be uncomfortable in Rome's Mediterranean summers? --70.245.189.11 (talk) 20:13, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Togas were quite loose, so I'd imagine they wouldn't be that uncomfortable to wear. Chevymontecarlo - alt 21:00, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

They also didn't wear them all the time. they were only for special occasions, and I think banned at one point. 148.197.121.205 (talk) 21:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

QI says a lot of people hated wearing the things, because they were huge and cumbersome. I'll see if I can find the video... Vimescarrot (talk) 22:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

This is the video. Vimescarrot (talk) 22:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Searching for the word "toga" on this QI episode summary page finds the relevant info. It's not very detailed, though, and of course we don't know their sources. A law had to be passed to force people to wear them, because they didn't want to. Vimescarrot (talk) 22:19, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about that law specifically, but there were laws about who could wear togas, what colour they could be, and what other sorts of decorations they could have on them. And of course they didn't wear togas all the time; they were like formal business clothes, which some of us wear more often than others, but not all the time. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:13, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

When one has worn loose clothes in a hot country one appreciates their value and the good sense of those who wear them. Of course a toga is not a light garment, but it is free flowing. On another note - they must have really encouraged a dignified stance and an elegant look.Froggie34 (talk) 06:44, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

As has already been mentioned above, togas was formal wear. Tunics was daily wear. We also have a clothing in ancient Rome article (though it could use some work). --Saddhiyama (talk) 18:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, we know people in Rome did find the summers hot. The rich (enough) holidayed away from Rome, if they lived there usually. - Jarry1250 ^{[Who? Discuss.]} 18:33, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

October 13

career

i am a student of electronics and telecommunication in diploma engineering, in BIRLA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY under the board of WEST BENGAL STATE COUNCIL OF TECHNICAL EDUCATION. Is there any possibility for me to have admission in MIT via exam or any process on electronics based subject for further studies? i have a great willings for studies in MIT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.93.4.158 (talk) 06:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Other people may have good advice to give you about applications to MIT, but there are some obvious things. You have to improve your English first. You should read the MIT website and find out what it says about admissions. Itsmejudith (talk) 07:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

You might want to talk to someone at the appropriate administrative office at your school, or a dean, or a tutor, or a professor you like. But certainly also you will want to have a look at the MIT admissions page. Good luck! WikiDao ☯ (talk) 07:45, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Whoa. Let's not jump to conclusions. The person may not be referring to the MIT; he may mean Manipal Institute of Technology, Madras Institute of Technology, Maharaja Institute of Technology, Maharashtra Institute of Technology or even schools in other countries. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:39, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Certainly these are possibilities. "He" may also be a "she" too. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 11:59, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

You have had some good advice: to get help from the institution you're currently studying in and the one you want to apply to. If you tell us more details we might be able to help more. Improving your English will be useful for studying electronic engineering. I join in the wishes of good luck. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:45, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Dang. I used "the person", then slipped up anyway. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:39, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

It gets easier. And then, one day, when you've forgotten you're doing it, someone will rant at you that you're debasing the Great English Language as spoken by Shakespeare, and you'll get to laugh at them. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 23:49, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

WP:BALL. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:40, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

MIT has students from around the world, and, oddly enough, many are not fully proficient in English. Write to the Dean of Admissions for information - MIT is very competitive as far as entrance is concerned. [9] "International students represent 37% of the MIT graduate student population, and more than 20% of the overall student population. " Good luck. Collect (talk) 10:24, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Downloading movies

How can I download movies from the net59.95.7.16 (talk) 16:11, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Open a Netflix account, or go to a site such as Hulu. We aren't going to give you instructions on how to download movies illegally. Looie496 (talk) 16:17, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Archive.org is an example of a place where you can download films that are not in copyright. For example, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari is up there, as are some other classics and some more recent, non-mainstream, films. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 16:37, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

μTorrent then The Pirate Bay. We don't have to give you instructions on how to download movies illegally but we can lead you in the right direction. --Endlessdan (talk) 16:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

You should know, of course, that if you go this direction, you do open yourself up to possible prosecution according to the laws of whatever jurisdiction you are in. (The IP is from India, if that helps.) --Mr.98 (talk) 18:09, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily. There are some torrent sites offering downloads under creative commons or with copyright holders permission, such as http://vodo.net/ or Mininova 82.44.55.25 (talk) 20:12, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but I think we're all pretty clear that the vast majority of holdings on the Pirate Bay are blatant and unapologetic copyright violations. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:07, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

As I'm sure you're aware, torrent sites don't host the media files themselves, they only host the torrent files that tell the software where to go to get the media files. A torrent file is not a copyright violation. It may lead people to content that is, but then again so does Google. --Viennese Waltz 07:49, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

If the IP is non-US, then the above suggestion to go to hulu is useless. Hulu only works for US IPs, and this notice saying "we'll make hulu available worldwide ASAP, we promise" has been unchanged for years now. Same goes for netflix - no US IP, no go. So those two suggestions aren't really any help and Endlessdan's suggestion is the way to go. Of course, there are possible legal problems involved, as Mr. 98 says, and presumably also moral ones. TomorrowTime (talk) 20:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

While I agree recommending Netflix and Hulu when you have no idea where the questioner lives and the evidence suggests it not the US, there's no reason you can't recommend other services if they are available. For example as an alternative to Netflix Online video rental#India (some of those appear to have online download services as well, Bigflix is one I think). I also found [10] who don't appear to be India exclusive but are usable by someone in India I believe. There are I think other similar sites who may offer content to people in many countries including India (obviously not the very popular content). [11] suggests there aren't many download services in India but it was in early January so things may have changed slightly since then. Nil Einne (talk) 02:30, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Valkyrie

I have new historical facts re the plot to kill Hitler which would be very interesting to Wikipedia and to Nathan Alexander, author of Valkyrie. Can Wikipedia contact Mr. Alexander and get him to contact me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.162.62 (talk) 17:04, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

We have no special access to anyone. If you want to talk to Nathan Alexander, you'll have to write to him yourself. Many publishers forward mail to their authors. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 17:07, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, it's unwise to leave your personal information on a very public noticeboard. --McDoobAU93 17:08, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about the failed assassination plot and would benefit from notable information that meets WP:RS. I suggest you present your information first at the article discussion page. Nathan Alexander is co-writer and co-producer of the film Valkyrie (2008) and appeared in the same year in a TV program "Valkyrie: The Plot to Kill Hitler". I think it likely you will get his contact details if you sign up for a free trial of IMDbPro (I didn't try). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:35, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

International Effort on Rescuing the Copiapó Miners

Many countries have contributed in some way to the ongoing rescue of the Copiapó miners. I read that NASA designed the escape pod, and I think a U.S. company came up with the drill bit that drilled the rescue hole. Austrians apparently designed the pulley and winch system that takes the pod up and down. South African has something to do with this effort too, but I don't know what yet. Etc. Does anyone know of a comprehensive listing of the international contributions to the rescue effort? TresÁrboles (talk) 21:14, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Someone mentioned to me that they thought South Africa was involved because they had seen S.A. after company names. In fact S.A. in Spanish speaking countries stands for 'Sociedad Anonima' which is equivalent to 'Company Limited'(Co. Ltd.) in English. But I guess with a user name like yours you know that already.Richard Avery (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

For those wondering what 'South Africa' (note of course any help may not actually come from the goverment) did do [12] [13] Nil Einne (talk) 23:41, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

7:34-8:40 for some always-relevant commentary. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 17:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

There's been Australian expertise used in the drilling. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 00:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

October 14

Reverse telephone lookup UK

How do I discover 020 331 53000 ? The number sounds unreal but is revealed by 1471. Kittybrewster ☎ 09:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

1 digit too many? -- are you looking for [14] and [15] (5 complaints total) where it appears it might be a telemarketer of some sort? Collect (talk) 10:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Number looks ok its a London 0203 number (normally shown as 0203 315 3000) - a google search shows it could be MEM Finance http://www.mem-cf.co.uk/ you could always ring the number! but as it is probably Cold calling it might be best to ignore it. MilborneOne (talk) 10:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Strictly speaking the code for London is 020, and the number should be shown as 020 3315 3000, though this convention is often flouted for 0207 and 0208 numbers, especially those that began life as 01 xxx xxxx, then became 071 xxx xxxx, then 0171 xxx xxxx, and now "officially" 020 7xxx xxxx (likewise for 081 etc). See UK telephone code misconceptions. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Spot on. Thank you. Kittybrewster ☎ 11:32, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Labor Relations

When can an employer legally lockout employees from their place of work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.106.129.183 (talk) 12:14, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

An employer can legally lock up their own premises at any time. That does not rule out the possibility of civil litigation that might arise from breaching an agreement or causing unusual hardship. An example of the latter is when the work premises are a remote hut in Antarctica that is the only heated accommodation within walking distance. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:33, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The opposite of the first part of what Cuddlyable3 said is also true. It all depends on the jurisdiction. In plenty of places, labour law is law, and unjustified lock outs are illegal. /Coffeeshivers (talk) 18:35, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The IP is in the US - and, in many cases, "lockouts" are legal. In fact, most employees are "at will" employees, subject to discharge at any time. Union or other contracts may affect the situation, but I doubt that such is a common occurrence (lockouts during a valid contract term). Collect (talk) 18:42, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

...and our article on this frightening concept is At-will employment, which also lists some exceptions to it, and links to relevant concepts in other countries. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 20:43, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

We do have the article Lockout (industry). Is there a particular situation or jurisdiction that you are curious about? -- 119.31.126.68 (talk) 12:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Awareness

The Green movement has been constantly bombarding the media with messages of conservation of natural resources in everyday life by individuals. My question is- What is the impact of these messages since the usage of cars has not gone down or the no of people behaving in an eco-conscious manner has not increased or global warming has not been reversed, deforestation is increasing day by day —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.98.0.155 (talk) 13:04, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

I am assuming good faith here. Why do you assume that `people behaving in an eco-conscious manner has not increased?' (OR warning) I suspect you'll find more people cycling to work in the USA in 2010 than did in 1990. Likewise for community gardens, composting, recycling, etc. As for `global warming has not been reversed', the situation we are in today has been brewing for ~200 years, and it is unlikely anything can get us back to pre-industrial revolution atmospheric CO_2 levels anytime soon. (Unsubstantiated claim:) Lastly, I'll point out that while individual habits contribute to environmental problems (especially unnecessary/inefficient use of cars), it's really large organizations that are responsible for the bulk of atmospheric emissions, and changing those practices will likely require legislation, not awareness campaigns. If anyone else wants to fill in some substantiating links here, I'd appreciate it -- SemanticMantis (talk) 14:10, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

We can't judge how much impact the messages have had, because we don't know what would have happened had the messages not been sent out. The "bombardment" by the "green movement" is, I'm pretty sure, at a lower level than the "bombardment" of advertising by the automobile industry or the producers of consumer goods generally over the same period. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

One easy way to judge the "impact" of the message is the number of "green" products that have been introduced over that period of time. An entire "green" industry has basically appeared out of nowhere in the last 15-20 years, usually at higher prices than the "regular" ("non-green") products. It's certainly an indication of increased consumer consciousness of "green" as a positive category, even at the expense of getting cheaper prices or sometimes more effective products (green cleaning products, in my experience, are pretty subpar compared to the "scorched earth" style chemical products). The impact of the commodification of "green" sentiment is seen especially in sectors like automobiles and manufacturing that are traditionally pretty "dirty", all of whom are racing now to appear environmentally aware and conscious. Now whether this translates into much real-world change in habits other than consumer spending, or whether it actually affects climate change (nobody in the Green movement would likely suggest that this has been the case except in a very minor way, in part because the magnitude of the problem is so great), is another, much harder to measure question. There are also more complicated economic and political factors involved as well. But I do think one can make the case that there has been a definite raise in consciousness about "green" products, and a real and measurable economic impact of that among the middle and upper classes. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

It is also a cultural thing. While more people may bike to work now then in 1990 for the US, that is probably not true in China. In fact, I recall a road in China had so much traffic, it had a 3week long traffic jam. Googlemeister (talk) 21:22, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Percentage of U.S. workers who biked to work in 2000: 0.38%. In 2008: 0.55%. ([16]) That's a 43% increase in eight years -- pretty good if you ask me, although we have a long way to go before we're like Amsterdam. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:14, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Why does this Bic pen have a white end?

I have come into possession of a Bic Cristal médium ballpoint pen. The pen writes black ink, but the plastic plug in the back end of the pen is not black (as I would expect) but instead opaque and white. Does this mean this pen is special in some way? I remember something when I used to work in a Post Office about possibly white ends on pens meaning they were special somehow (security related?) but I cannot find any reference to it online. Maybe someone who works for Bic could shed some light? 13:15, 14 October 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.123.15 (talk)

It's what you write with a pen which makes it special. Juliankaufman (talk) 14:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Bic makes identical pens but with white barrels (for promotional advertising), so I would guess that the white end was really intended for one of these and just got placed on your clear barrel by mistake. I suppose it could be some special code, but I've never heard of it. Any Bic employees available? Dbfirs 15:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

What colo(u)r is the cap? In the U.S., the cap and the plug at the end were usually the same colour, related to the colour of the ink inside (medium blue cap and plug: dark blue ink; red: red ink; black: black ink; etc.) —— Shakescene (talk) 17:23, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The plug colour (white) is meaningless. Really. Collect (talk) 17:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

It means you have enough time to contemplate the meaning of pen cap colors and to share your observations on Wikipedia. schyler (talk) 19:05, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Nokia phone / vCard

Someone sent me a vCard from their mobile phone. Is there a menu option within a Nokia 6300 which will store the vCard details as a new contact? thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:26, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Celebrity Milkmen

I'm looking for information on milkmen (Uk-based hopefully) who have becomes celebrities. Thanks. Juliankaufman (talk) 15:44, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Sean Connery[17]? Alansplodge (talk) 16:25, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Freddie Garrity of Freddie and the Dreamers[18] is another (you have to be a certain age to remember that one). Alansplodge (talk) 16:39, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This is rather tenuous, but before he became a U.S. Congressman from Berkeley, California (later to be defeated in the 1970 Democratic primary by Ron Dellums, who's now the retiring Mayor of Oakland), the late Jeffery Cohelan was secretary-treasurer of the milk-drivers' union. (I'm old enough to remember Express Dairies delivering milk from horse-drawn waggons in London, but getting milk delivered to your door in the U.S. now is very much a boutique, specialist choice. I wonder who the youngest celebrity to have worked at this job would be.) —— Shakescene (talk) 16:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

(ec) I was going to say I presumed Ernie didn't count, but from that article I see that Benny Hill is another example. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 16:59, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Craig Douglas, "known to many as the 'Singing Milkman'". Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:17, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

D'oh! I had only remembered the Singing Postman :-) Alansplodge (talk) 08:18, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I have heard that Engelbert Humperdinck was a milkman, though our article doesn't seem to mention it. You may want to investigate further (and I will check later as well). Matt Deres (talk) 18:08, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Harry Hood (ok, he's fictional, but still...) --Jayron32 22:37, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

A quick search also turns up Harry Enfield, Jon Anderson and Brian Jacques. Carl Airey is the youngest notable milkman I can find - he apparently started delivering milk after his career in professional football finished. Warofdreams talk 01:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I tried a search of the IMDB biography section for "milkman". There were 22 hits, but 21 of them were false -- either the person had a family member who was a milkman, or they were involved in something with "milkman" in the title, or they played a milkman (in several cases Tevye). The only one who was a milkman himself was Nathan Hale (1910-94), husband of Ruth Hale (playwright and actress). And he has only two acting credits in the IMDB, so I don't think he qualifies as famous unless he was better known in the realm of the stage. Of course, given that "milkman" ends in "-man", it's possible that another term is used for it in some places and maybe there are IMDB biographies that use that instead. --Anonymous, 04:27 UTC, corrected 04:31, October 15, 2010.

Sting worked as a milkman, helping his father. I see the IMDB biography doesn't make that clear. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 07:49, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

According to this[19], Sting was a bus conductor, a labourer, a tax officer and a teacher. Milkmen often used a school-aged boy to help with the deliveries; not quite a fully fledged milkman though. Alansplodge (talk) 13:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

It was mentioned in a documentary I saw on TV around Christmas, possibly the one on "A Winter's Night...Live from Durham Cathedral". AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Mike Tucker, Jazzer, and Harry. We love the Bull! BrainyBabe (talk) 07:50, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Wiggling toes in bed

What would be the cause or reason for someone wiggling their toes (seemingly uncontrollably) before bed? Also, are there any benefits or dangers of doing this?--67.134.239.205 (talk) 19:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

We don't give medical advice, sorry. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

We have an encyclopaedia article on Restless legs syndrome that might be of interest. However, a bunch of unknown Internet people are not a reliable source of personalized medical advice, which is why we can't give you any. Please ask a medical professional instead. Good luck. Karenjc 21:37, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

October 15

Are those kinds of door-to-door magazine sales scams?

Dear Wikipedia,

I had a random door-to-door magazine salesman arrive at my residence and he was pitching deals about magazines that cost $1.80/issue while showing me lists of magazines I could subscribe to. He appeared college-aged and said that he'd earn 100 communications points if I decided to accept a sale. I told him that I didn't need magazines right now but he told me about how he needed to meet his quota of 20,000 points in 3 weeks soon or else something unfavorable would happen. He claimed to have 16,500 points right at the moment. He then said that it would help a charity (like St. Jude's Hospital) and help him get a vacation to Hawaii, then get into college somehow.

The guy, claimed to be Michael Reynolds, said that he's from southern Ohio and hopes to get into Ohio State sometime. He claimed to be adopted, therefore he couldn't get student loans, since he couldn't find and track down the info about his biological parents. He also said that his adoptive parents are Mormon, after pointing out and commenting about a booklet about Chastity on my coffee table that some of the LDS Missionaries left me weeks ago.

Then he pitched about donating kids' magazines to St. Jude's Children Hospital instead, and I would get a post card from them in 1-10 weeks saying thanks, a biography about a child patient, his/her diagnoses and etc., and a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Then I decided to go with the transaction.

He then said that it's $48 for a 2-year subscription to that hospital, so I calculated and that would be 26.66 issues. It was really 24, and when faced with this math disparity, he said that the magazines RANGE from $1.80-$3/issue. It would really be $2/issue for National Geographic for Kids.

Michael was quite friendly and polite and I was so pressured to pay that I told him I was going to post-date the check instead. It's because I have too little in my account right now but after November, I would get my monthly deposit, so I set it at November 2nd. At first, he agreed to it. Then he asked to borrow my phone to call his boss, T. Bradburn, at 770-851-68**. It would only go to voicemail, so he tried twice; same result. When he couldn't reach him, he told me that he'd need permission because checks can't be post-dated without it, so he asked me to put in today's date but promised to hold it until next month, and even invited me to call his boss to ask that the check doesn't get cashed until November.

He also told me that he's a "contestant" who's part of a traveling group in a van that his boss drives, and they stayed at Omaha, quite a bit north from where I live, and he needed to add 2 more magazine subscriptions by tonight at 8:00 Central. (It was about 5:30-6:30 when I dealt with him.)

After I completed the transaction, he gave his most heartfelt thanks, got me to write good comments about him (so he gets another 100 points) and went on his way. I went on my way too because I had an Accounting tutoring session to go to. I think called Bradburn's number again, intending to leave a voice message. He answered this time, and when I explained what happened, who visited, and so forth, once I asked that the check only gets deposited after November starts, he said "Too bad!" and hung up. This was a big red flag.

I thought this over for a little bit, then decided to chase down Michael on my bike and confront him about his boss's treatment of me over the phone. He sounded apologetic and assured me that he'd do his best to personally make sure that the check doesn't get deposited until November, and made some comments about not intending to treat customers disrespectfully and so forth. When I asked about his boss Mr. Bradburn, Mike said that he smokes in his car (he mentioned a van instead earlier...), had a pretty rough childhood, and is like Rocky Balboa. I asked him who I could go to in case the check was deposited too early anyway, and to complain about Mr. Bradburn. He said that Bradburn's boss is David Fussler (or Fussman or Fusser?), and I told him that I'd find out more about him online. Mike was once again apologetic and friendly and we bid each other our farewells.

I wrote down the company name as well and left that at home but I don't remember what it is now. (Acronym is "SSI" - S...... Sales, Inc. I don't know if the first "S" stands for Sunrise, Sunshine, or something about as long as that.)

Did these guys just screw me? Do I have to tell my bank to cancel Check #578 or just give a special request not to register the transaction until November, just in case?

Moreover, what can you find out about these people? And what do you know that I don't, about such traveling young magazine salesmen? (They canvass college towns apparently, because I've had several other visitors like Mike once every half-year or so, but I was able to turn them away in ways that I couldn't turn Mike. But why do they want the college students' business?)

I look forward to your answers. Thank you,

--129.130.32.61 (talk) 00:22, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

That sure sounds like a scam to me. ♫Mr. R00t ^Talk♫ 00:24, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes. You. Were. Completely. Scammed. Indeed, royally scammed. Let me count the ways: 1) he needs the points 2) its for the kids 3) prices are variable 4) you have to subscribe /now/ not in three weeks (the refusal to accept a post dated cheque) 5) the mobile phone boss who must be approached for permissions but won't pick up 6) the contestant 7) the mobile phone boss who distains your call: we've got the cheque, dummy: you're history 8) the personal apology 9) the boss' rough childhood, FFS. I've probably missed a few, but you get the picture. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

why do they want the college students' business. Because you're that exotic combination of "have some money" + "naïve". There are few ready substitutes for age and the lessons learned from repeated experience. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:40, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, Tagish. If I find some info and background on the company, I may report them to the BBB. Now, would I be able to ask my bank to cancel Check #578 once it arrives so it doesn't get debited to the scammers?

By the way, may I please post the boss's full name and phone #? When I was writing the number down, Mike then said the prefix was 158, and I stopped him and told him that phone prefixes cannot start with "1;" they had to be 200 or above, so I looked at his boss's business card and got the correct number. Then Mike claims that he is "sometimes dyslexic like that."

Also, could they commit ID theft with the name, address, routing & account # on my check? How so? And if so, how do I prevent it as soon as I can? --129.130.32.61 (talk) 01:07, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Not only are you being scammed, the kids doing the selling are in big trouble, too. See www.associatedcontent.com/article/181489/doortodoor_magazine_selling_kids_protecting.html?cat=17 216.93.213.191 (talk) 01:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Call the bank, put a hold on the check. Pretty simple. You seem to be aware that the possibility of it being a scam is exceptionally high. It has scam written all over it. As for possible problems with them having the check info, ask the bank. They'll know pretty well, and since they are the ones who end up having to chase down the funds if they get removed (at least, that's what my bank had to do when someone misused my own check numbers), they'll probably be the ones with the incentive to let you know if something is weird. (E.g. put a hold on your account and get you a new number, which is not very hard.) --Mr.98 (talk) 02:07, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, YOU are the person who is liable to have to track down funds that get removed. I've had this happen to me; my account number was used by a wireless company to "electronically draft" out of my account. I didn't authorize it, didn't have an account with this company. I told the bank and they told me to call the company and have them return the money! My argument that they had allowed an unauthorized transaction fell on deaf ears; it was my problem. In their eyes, if someone has my account number, they are allowed to draft out of it!

I did call the company and they did return the money (after a few days and a couple of phone calls), so that was less trouble than fighting the bank. And the bank knows that, and they have some of the highest-paid lobbyists there are writing laws in their favor, so who knows what I would have found if the company had refused to return the money?

Given the brazen nature of the people you are dealing with, I would close the account. If you just stop the check, you are depending on too many other people to behave the way we expect them to. These folks are out-of-sight con artists.

Also, just by-the-bye, if you want to contribute to St. Jude's, they take checks in any amount at any time convenient to you -- no part of that money stops off at a magazine company or a salesman's pocket. I tell all phone callers and door-to-door sellers (now that I'm older) that I never respond to solicitations from any of them, because it just encourages them. It does not matter how worthy their cause sounds.

rc (talk) 04:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, it may vary state-by-state (and maybe by bank). In California, when someone did all sorts of hijinks with my Wells Fargo checking account, it was a pretty trivial thing for the bank to reverse it (I had to fill out some fraud paperwork) and they didn't hold me liable for any of it except for an overdraft fee that was accrued during the same time period (which I probably could have gotten reversed if I'd had the energy to fight it). --Mr.98 (talk) 12:26, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Here is some info on their organization

Hi, I just got back home and therefore had the chance to review the receipt. The company's name is Someday Sales, Inc.. Their address is P.O. Box 574, Arden, NC 28704. The sales agent is read to be Michael R. (as I indicated above) and the "code" is 512. (That could be an employee ID #.) The receipt # is 25983, and some another company's info on the bottom right of the receipt is "(CSI) Currie Systems, Inc. - Huntsville, AL - (256) 704-CURRIE (2877)." I'll be googling Someday Sales to see what more I can learn about them; see if they have any remarks on BBB.org or RipOffReport.com. --70.179.178.5 (talk) 05:12, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

BBB rating: F. Have you put a hold on the check yet? --Mr.98 (talk) 12:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello, same OP, different IP (thanks to being on the move with my laptop nearly every day.) I have asked my bank to cancel Check #578, and they said it would be a $25 fee; it would, after all, save me $23. And they said that I have to visit the bank and sign a form. I'll be available after 2:20 CST this afternoon so that's exactly what I'll do. --129.130.101.29 (talk) 18:00, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

BTW the NYT did a good article a few years ago about the mistreatment of employees on magazine crews and the industry's general shadiness.[20] Calliopejen1 (talk) 16:07, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Lesson for all of us: never buy anything at the door. Either don't open the door at all, or say "no thanks, I never buy anything at the door". Never let anyone start on their sob story. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:10, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

And if you want to give them money, pay in cash and view it as a donation with no reward: don't do it expecting to have gained anything. 109.155.37.180 (talk) 23:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Unless it means life or death [21][22]. schyler (talk) 03:18, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

best sleeping position

Which sleeping position is scientifically regarded as being the best for getting to sleep and having a good nights sleep? I've tried sleeping on my back but I never go to sleep, I've tried on my front but my face in the pillow makes it difficult to breath, and I've tried sleeping on my side but it is uncomfortable for my male private parts (I'm male btw). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.84.247.143 (talk) 10:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

You could try sleeping on your side with a pillow between your legs, to relieve the pressure on your balls. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 11:14, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Thread of the week, already. --Viennese Waltz 11:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

You might be interested to read sleeping position.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:58, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure how lying on your side is uncomfortable in that way, but I would say the back is the best way to sleep, for me at least. I think the best position in which to sleep best is different for everyone, although the article Shantavira linked to may be helpful. Chevymontecarlo 14:43, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

October 16

Where to buy U.S.Army Uniform

Where can I buy an U.S.Army Uniform for Parades and so forth. As a Chaplian for Amvets I would like to have an Army Uniform. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.17.208.20 (talk) 00:15, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Get yourself a phone book and look up your local surplus store. Or go to an online retailer such as US Cavalry. Dismas|^(talk) 00:35, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

do not try to mug a marine for his duds. it's likely that would not work out well for you. --Ludwigs2 03:46, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

98.17.208.20, as a member of AMVETS, I assume that you are a veteran. By your "Chaplain" mention, are you implying that you are a retired army officer? Do you have access rights to a PX? I understand that there are regulations (10USC771 and 772) which cover the appropriate wearing of uniforms by veterans. Given the nature of your organization, don't you have information officers to help veterans with questions such as this? -- 124.157.218.5 (talk) 07:02, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Jet Putt game

What information is known about the Jet Putt Miniature Golf game produced by Kenner Toys in Cinncinnati Ohio? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Myusernamewho (talk • contribs) 03:21, 16 October 2010 (UTC)