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November 22

Factors affecting utilization of an automated library system in academic libraries

I have been given a home work on this topic. Please help me to find answers to this. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenyisokiri (talk • contribs) 01:00, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Could you clarify your phrase "automated library system?" We maintain a number of distinct "automated library systems" with the main one being our Integrated library system (ILS). I note that someone has set up a redirect from Automated library system to the ILS article. Also, do you really mean "utilization" as opposed to the more common questions regarding "implementation?" In any case, this is not a trivial task. We spent several years selecting and implementing our current ILS system. The factors are legion, and the answer could be an entire thesis. You might want to refer to any lecture notes or assigned readings on this topic. --Quartermaster (talk) 13:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Masturbation technique

What is tolling of the bells? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.91.117.73 (talk) 04:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Removed text inappropriate for the RD signed "AndyTheGrump 04:54, 22 November 2010", comment on talk page. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 13:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know your comment (and this thread in general) will get deleted, but I must applaud you for that epically hilarious response. 24.189.87.160 (talk) 05:20, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has a (restricted) animated image of the male masturbation technique "Tolling of the Bells". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 08:30, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Should be obvious, but the above link is not safe for work by really any definition. --Mr.98 (talk) 15:01, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even if you work for Bel Ami? First result for pornography company for me. Nil Einne (talk) 15:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone browsing the reference desk at work instead of working is likely to be fired; nothing on the internet is worksafe unless your job is answering wikipedia questions. 83.189.71.128 (talk) 17:04, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Only if you assume an intelligent and company-backed IT department. My experience in general is that the former is merely possible and the latter is most likely lacking. --Onorem ♠Dil 17:09, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ask not how the bells toll, even if they toll for thee. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:17, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not true at all. One can browse on one's lunch break but still not be allowed to look at naked pictures. Or they could be in a public space where normal Ref Desk questions and answers are fine, but a picture of swinging testicles might be a bit embarrassing. Anyway it's common courtesy for websites to alert people about questionable content. Nobody is censoring anything just because they are warned that they might not want to click a link under all possible circumstances. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:19, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The story behind that illustration is rather tragic, as its subject turned out to be a clapper. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Genitcally modified foods

ummm, what're the most common genetic modifications for produce? Jds500 (talk) 19:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to vary from crop to crop (see Genetically modified plant); some are modified to improve resistance to pests (see Genetically modified tomato, though I think tobacco is actually a more famous case, though without an article), some are modified to improve resistance to herbicides (see the Monsanto article for an example). There are other reasons, but my understanding is that those are the two big ones. Matt Deres (talk) 19:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically resistance to glyphosate or adding bt toxin. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:21, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. And tobacco was the early experimental subject, supposedly because its genetics were relatively simple to deal with. Plus, if an experiment didn't work quite as planned, they could maybe still smoke the results. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:44, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

wikipedia (article?) code

could anyone please direct me somewhere (hopefully on wikipedia; I have restriced internet access) where I can learn the wikipedia article code (stuff like links, citations, sections, etc.)? Also, is a lot of it in html? the size commands for wording, typically used on the reference desk, or in discussion pages, appears the same as html (I learned html online a year ago) Jds500 (talk) 01:26, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Help:Wiki markup and Wikipedia:Cheatsheet. 82.44.55.25 (talk) 01:30, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most of it is not HTML. They choose an HTML-like notation for some rarely-used features because there was no sense in getting overly creative with them, but the notation is intended to be easier to write than HTML for common wiki tasks. Paul (Stansifer) 02:58, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some HTML is accepted in addition to the Wiki markup though - '''test''' and <b>test</b> both produce test, for example. -Elmer Clark (talk) 05:03, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Question about pet birds

can i house my african parakeets and my lovebirds together? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.102.225.185 (talk) 01:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that Wikipedia is really the best place to ask this. You might do better to find a website that specialised in keeping birds as pets. There is an article on the keeping of parrots and related species of birds here: Companion parrot. It doesn't seem to answer your question, but you could try the external links.AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:56, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I googled your question and found this, which seems to indicate that you should not, but they speak a dialect of English I'm not entirely fluent in. --Sean 17:14, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the birds are speaking an English dialect, they would be too valuable to leave things to chance. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chemical composition of butter

What specific chemicals can be found in butter? 64.75.158.194 (talk) 16:16, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See butter and butterfat.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oshawott

Where does Oshawott's name come from? --J4\/4 <talk> 16:30, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hard to say, and it's a contentious topic - Bulbapedia at time of writing hazards a guess at a combination of ocean, shell, water and otter, possibly also Oshawa, Ontario and George Ohsawa. Futachimaru's and Daikenki's English names might lend some clarity to the etymology. -- the Great Gavini 06:13, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1920 Rail Travel

If I wanted to travel from NewYork to Houston, Texas in 1920 would this have been possible/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.59.108.135 (talk) 22:59, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is an article here which might help: History of rail transport in the United States. There is also a map (from 1918) that suggests you probably could, and you'd have plenty of choice over routes:

. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:16, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not only was it possible by rail, at that time it was the normal means of travel for such a trip. Air and highway travel were still both in their infancy, and trains by this time were reasonably safe and comfortable and way faster than ship or horse-drawn travel. The only question is whether you could use a single train for the whole journey, or if you'd have to change trains one or more times (it's also possible that coach passengers would have to change, but a single sleeping car would make the whole journey, being uncoupled from one train and coupled to another on a scheduled basis); this level of detail I do not know and don't have a source for. --Anonymous, 23:52 UTC, November 23, 2010.

The Louisville and Nashville Railroad and the Southern Railway operated several through trains from New York to New Orleans, where it would have been necessary to change to the Texas and New Orleans Railroad to continue on to Houston. The whole trip would have taken 30 to 36 hours. Marco polo (talk) 02:58, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Having travelled from Calais to Athens by railway (via Oslo - the scenic route...), I'd like to add that if you actually want to see the world, a train is the way to do it. Sadly, these days you'd just fly, and miss all the interesting stuff on the way. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:11, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not to mention those wonderful encounters with the nice security people at the airports. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:11, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 24

Motorbike flip

In Quantum of Solace, Bond whacks the guy on the motorbike in the left hand/arm area and the bike sort of flips in the air and the rider is knocked off (Bond then attacks the guy again and takes his bike). How did this happen...is the bike on automatic "go" and knocking the guy's hand off the handle brake made the bike jerk suddenly enough to surprise the rider? I don't see how Bond whacked the bike to make it flip -- seems like it's way too heavy for that! DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 01:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how to tell you this, but the James Bond series is not known for its rigid adherence to realism. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But you don't see Bond teleporting or apparating or using or doing anything that's inherently impossible. So yeah, he doesn't get hit by even one bullet from an automatic rifle even after losing his side door, but to smack a motorbike on the handle and have it flip over -- I think of those two things as different. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 02:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He was driving an invisible car in one of Pierce Brosnan entries. Shades of Wonder Woman. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:39, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would wager that 90% of all physical stunts in the Bond movies are nonsensically fictional. They're silly stunts made to look cool; they're not real. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:31, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mythbusters did an episode exploring a similar stunt based on a scene in one of the Indiana Jones movies where Indy places a stick in the spokes and the bike flips over. Mythbusters pretty much busted that one. --Jayron32 01:55, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically, see MythBusters (2008 season)#Motor Bike Flip. --Anonymous, 11:06 UTC, November 24, 2010.

I think the Italian team did that same thing to one of the protagonists in Breaking Away. Although that was a bicycle. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I recall, Dave in Breaking Away (a really good movie BTW) didn't flip over; he just crashed. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:19, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't Bond just knock the rider's hand off of the clutch? Blakk^{and ekka} 17:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Military conquer of land

Resolved

I searched for this wordage in Google, but found only stuff related to Biblical Joshua -- So, if Canada committed an act of war against the US in the area of northern NYS, and the US responded to such an act of war with a troop-mediated rebuff that resulted in the US securing all of, let's say, Niagara Falls and greater Toronto, what's the international law in regard to this land? Does the US give it back necessarily? Where can I find information about this type of conquest, or any kind of conquest, for that matter? With this premise, I'm assuming that Israel was similarly confronted by acts of war (such as blocking of the Straits of Tiran), and trying to make up a similar situation to help me understand. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 02:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is called, unsurprisingly, the right of conquest, and was LONG an implicit part of international law. One aspect of Sovereignty is the ability to secure a land an a people, presumably if an invading force captures a plot of land, then the plot of land was not secured by the prior claimants, so they have lost claims to soverignty over it. This is an evolving aspect of international law, however, as the "right to conquest" article notes, in the past 100 years or so international law has progressively come out against wars of conquest and aggression, tending to deny the right of the aggressor to take territory by force. The last notable attempt at taking a widely-recognized sovereign nation by force was the 1990 Invasion of Kuwait, which led to a rather broad coalition to reverse that invasion, the 1990-1991 Gulf War. The "right of conquest" article goes over the specific changes to international law which have made the right of conquest a pretty much universally rejected right to claims of sovereignty. See also Territorial integrity, which is a principle of international law which pretty much denies the right of conquest. --Jayron32 03:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This was actually the gist of Defence Scheme No. 1, amazingly enough. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:21, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alright -- thanx! DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 04:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For more about practical examples of the US at war with Canada (or the British, actually) and associated respective invasions see War of 1812. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:36, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Filling up with gas

How does the gas machine measure the gas dispensed, from the tip of the nozzle or some other location in the tube? If it's from some other location in the tube (or prior to the tube), how does the gas machine charge the first first first customer properly if there's no gas in the tube yet? Of course, I may be getting multiple things wrong but it all just occurred to me last night. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 04:50, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can't answer your question directly, but I do have a relevant sidenote - in the "olden days" gas pumps had glass reservoirs atop each pump, with clearly delineate volumes, so you would read the starting mark, fill your tank, then subtract the finishing mark to get the volume you had removed. It wasn't as accurate as digital, but you paid for what you got, in a sense. The Masked Booby (talk) 08:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The OP may wish to rethink his assumption that the customer is getting exactly the right amount of fuel. I've often raised the middle part of the fuel hose higher than the nozzle in order to get the remaining fuel in the hose into my tank, even if it is worth only a few cents. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:19, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That rips off the next guy. Unless everyone does it. Because by that principle, when you put the nozzle in, you're going to gain whatever the previous guy's filling left in the hose, countering the loss at the end of filling which you're describing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And we're all speculating that the machine counting mechanism is prior to the hose, so doing so won't even trigger the machine to notice any extra gasoline being dispensed -- but what if you're filling one of the regulation red plastic containers sitting on the floor, and there's no drip cord effect...the next guy doesn't get the tube remnant there, either? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 22:51, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How often does that happen? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, I don't see how DOR's method would do anything. The shutoff is on the nozzle, so you're still going to leave some gas in the hose, no matter what angle you hold it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Car idling in cold

How long should I let my car run for before I can start driving when it's -20 to -30C (about -5 to -20F) so I don't hurt the engine, and at what point am I just wasting gas? It's a 1999 Neon if that matters. If it hasn't been plugged in it usually whines for about a minute or so, then returns to normal engine noises, and I figure that's about when I can start going.

Also, my little sister says she needs to let her truck run for 20 minutes even when it's been plugged in and I think that is a load of rubbish. Who's right? Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 05:48, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Click and Clack recommend about 2 minutes of warm-up for fuel-injected cars when the temperature is under 10F. Link Haus^Talk 06:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We had a similar question to this one (probably last winter) and the conclusion was that it doesn't take much time at all. Dismas|^(talk) 06:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From my own experience I'd agree that 2 minutes sounds about right - it's probably best to avoid really thrashing the engine until it's warmed up well and the oil is fully up to temperature, but I imagine that if it's -20C you're unlikely to be driving particularly aggressively! ~ mazca ^talk 11:47, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even two minutes is probably more than necessary (note that the Car Talk link provided actually quotes the hosts as saying "a minute or two", not "about two minutes"). Any modern (last two decades or so) fuel-injected vehicle will automatically begin a fast idle after being started in cold weather; the idea being that this rapidly warms the engine and oil to a safe operating temperature. After the car warms sufficiently (ten or fifteen seconds usually, and even in cold weather likely less than a minute), it will drop back to a regular idle – if you listen for it, you'll hear the change – and you're definitely good to go. If you start the engine, then put on your seat belt, check your mirrors, and adjust the radio before you drive off gently, you're fine. If someone wants to troll the Ref Desk archives for the previous iterations of this question they'll find the sources for this info.

A lot of people will let the engine run for a while on a cold morning just to let the interior of the car warm up before they set off (these people will usually get out of the vehicle after starting it, go inside to have another cup of coffee, and then return 10 minutes later). They will then pretend they need to create a cloud of exhaust fumes in their driveway for mechanical reasons, not because they value their own comfort more than the health of the planet... --207.236.147.118 (talk) 16:00, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. Must be obsessed by trolls. What we need is someone to trawl through the archives. :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 14:38, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Trolling (fishing). [1]. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:55, 24 November 2010 (UTC) [reply]

Why? 86.166.40.102 (talk) 14:49, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I remember being told that you should be extra careful with cars with a turbo-charger, waiting a couple of minutes before driving off because if you spin the turbo when the oil is cold it could cease. That was when turbos first came in, so it may be out of date. -- Q Chris (talk) 16:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to the German motoring organization ADAC this is a myth and it's idling your engine in cold weather that may damage your engine. [2] (in german I'm afraid). Winter temperature in Germany can be -10C to -20C. 86.135.217.213 (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The engine should be fine by the time you get through a song on the radio. The real wait is for the windshield to defrost. If you don't wait long enough, it will fog right back up as soon as you hit the streets. If it's dark out, you'll be driving blind.129.128.216.107 (talk) 03:44, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Christmas E-Card Donation to wikipedia

I want to make a Charitable donation to Wikipedia by purchasing a christmas internet E-card. Please advise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.58.209 (talk) 09:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to the official donation page of the Wikimedia Foundation (the organization that operates Wikipedia), they accept donations by credit card and PayPal. I've never heard of e-cards being used to deliver donations, though you could donate and then send them an e-card if you want. I would suggest not paying for an e-card, since they are usually free. And thanks for supporting Wikipedia! Paul (Stansifer) 18:22, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps they mean an electronic equivalent of charity Christmas cards, where they would buy an e-card that would say somewhere, in small letters, "supporting Wikipedia" or "a small donation has been made to Wikipedia" or "profits from the sale of these e-cards go to Wikipedia" or similar. This would allow them to send the e-cards to friends and family, for money, and so support Wikipedia, as the money would go to it, while raising awareness of the need to raise funds for Wikipedia. However, it was also require serious mission creep so that Wikipedia could set up an e-card system, or trusting some third party to pay their profits to Wikipedia. You'd be safer sending a free e-card, and writing "a small donation has been made to Wikipedia, to keep the servers running" at the bottom. Then donate to Wikipedia. 86.164.76.95 (talk) 11:39, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

how can I get information about my ex-husband's judgment or court case with the IRS in Florida which he lost?

how can I get information about my ex-husband's judgment or court case with the IRS in Florida which he lost? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeannie7777 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Try pacer.gov, perhaps you find it there. Quest09 (talk) 18:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Buying a laptop in the US from Europe

If you buy a laptop in the US from Europe (more precisely Austria), what are the technical problems that you can face? I know the plug is different (but adapters exist), it will be obviously have a US keyboard, OS and manual. But what else can be different - specially, what else can make it a bad idea? Quest09 (talk) 18:40, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Import tax issues? -- 78.43.71.155 (talk) 20:43, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems likely that you'd be charged a substantial import tariff. Also, the warranty may only be valid in the US. It's theoretically possible that the power brick wouldn't work on the ~230V European mains, but unlikely, since laptops are designed for travel. I can't think of anything other than that. -- BenRG (talk) 22:20, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are import taxes technical issues? Nevermind, in the mean time I thought that the DVD player might be locked to US DVD films. Is that possible?Quest09 (talk) 23:51, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The software for playing DVDs will probably be locked to the US region, but it's easy to replace that, either with European-region software or region-free software. It's also possible that the DVD drive itself is region-locked, but that's far less common (and there's usually a way to change it). --Carnildo (talk) 01:05, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quest09, you asked about technical issues but you also asked "what else can make it a bad idea?", so I decided to err on the safe side. Hardware and software DVD region numbers can normally be changed five times before they lock; I think this may be required by the DVD consortium. Things like WiFi and TV in/out are normally switchable between different national standards. I'm not sure about cell/mobile wireless. I have personally brought a US laptop to the UK and a UK laptop to the US without any technical problems that I can remember, other than keyboard and DVD region differences. I bought them locally and took them as carry-on luggage (and had used them for quite a while in the country of purchase), so I didn't run into the tax issue. -- BenRG (talk) 02:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One other thing: you probably won't need a plug adapter, because the cord from the power brick to the wall is usually a standard part the local version of which can be purchased at any electronics store. -- BenRG (talk) 02:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another thing that makes it a bad idea (even if the vendor is a very good friend of yours) is the hassle you would have to go through if it arrives damaged or if it stops working a few weeks after you bought it.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:40, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with BenRG and not Carnildo on the region thing. Most software and drives (and sometimes OSes) allow a few changes usually 5 although sometimes 3. If you're unlucky, your software and drive may be set to region 1 by default which may mean you'll lose one region change but it's unlikely you'll be stuck on region 1. Software limitations of course can usually be modified, hardware ones can be too if your drive is firmware updatable although obviously riskier and less guaranteed (as there are many different drive models each usually with their own firmware) although this may potentially violate the DMCA in the US and other countries with similar legislation (although regional codings are questionable themselves in some places). Of course you can also get software which doesn't rely on the drive or OS at all although again such software may violate local legislation.

I'm not so sure about the TV thing. I believe TV output should be fine, however if your laptop has some sort of tuner these are often only support one form. DVB-T and ATSC are fairly different anyway as I understand them. However I don't know how likely it is that the laptop will come with ATSC, I don't believe broadcast TV is so popular in the US I suspect it's much more likely a laptop in Europe will come with a DVB-T tuner then one in the US with ATSC. In terms of the mobile TV formats, these still seem to be in major flux so I don't think it's that likely your laptop will have any.

If your laptop does come with some form of wireless 3G card, it will obviously depend on what standard is supported. If it's W-CDMA (including HSDPA) you may have a chance although most of Europe uses 900/2100 whereas 850/2100 is common in the US so if it isn't at least triband 850/900/2100 you're likely to have limited coverage depending on your network and there are also a bunch of other odd W-CDMA bands in use. If it's CDMA2000 your probably SOL in much of Europe. Of course you're also SOL if your mobile wireless device is simlocked and not unlockable.

Nil Einne (talk) 10:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The warranty may be completely invalid. Amazon in the US will not sell certain items to Canada because of warranty concerns. Enter CBW, waits for audience applause, not a sausage. 13:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As a reasonably regular visitor to the USA, I seriously considered buying a laptop on my next trip. After a bit of research I found all but one issue easily surmountable. By far the biggest problem for me was the severely limited warranty options. Essentially, the laptop is only covered for warranty repair in the country of purchase (ie. I couldn't buy in the USA and get warranty service in Europe). The risk was too high for me, so I bought locally. Astronaut (talk) 10:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

City Rivalries

Chicago-Detroit

is there a rivalry between Chicago and Detroit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 19:52, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It depends if you mean sports, and in which sport. The Chicago Blackhawks and Detroit Red Wings have a traditional natural rivalry in Hockey dating back to the Original Six days. During the 1960s, there was a fierce personal rivalry between Detroit's Gordie Howe and Chicago's Bobby Hull. In other sports, Detroit teams and Chicago teams tend to play in the same division, so there have been other historical rivalries in this vein. During the late 1980's, there was a Chicago Bulls/Detroit Pistons rivalry, the two teams played in several memorable playoff series. Dating back to the old, pre-merger NFL days the Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears had a traditional rivalry, and they both play as part of the NFL's NFC North division today, known historically as the "Black and Blue" division or the "NFC Norris" after the NHL's Norris Division, see above for THAT rivalry. Detroit's 50 years of football mediocrity has pretty much ended that rivalry. In baseball, the only teams that have a natural rivalry would be the Chicago White Sox and Detroit Tigers, but those teams do not have as much of a traditional rivalry as in the other sports. --Jayron32 20:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chicago-Cleveland

Is there a rivalry between Chicago and Cleveland? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 19:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, assuming sports, there was once a Chicago Bears/Cleveland Browns rivalry, but since the AFL-NFL Merger, when the Browns moved to the AFC, that ended any sort of rivalry there. The Chicago White Sox and Cleveland Indians are often both near the top of the highly competitive AL Central division in Baseball, so they have a rivalry of sorts. During the early 1990's, there was a bit of a one-sided rivalry between the Chicago Bulls and Cleveland Cavaliers; Cleveland was the recipient of some legendary losses to the Bulls in the early rounds of the playoffs. Cleveland only briefly had a hockey team (the Cleveland Barons) which lasted only 2 seasons. --Jayron32 20:23, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is little city rivalry between Cleveland and Chicago or between Cleveland and Detroit. Traditionally, Cleveland's rival city was Cincinnati as the other large city in Ohio (Columbus becoming a major city only in recent decades). If asked to name Cleveland's rival city, many Clevelanders nowadays would say Pittsburgh because of the Browns-Steelers football rivalry. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Detroit-Cleveland

Is there a rivalry between Detroit and Cleveland? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 19:59, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, assuming sports, the Detroit Tigers and Cleveland Indians play in the same baseball division. As far as I know, there is not any traditional rivalries in either basketball or football or hockey. --Jayron32 20:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See above. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Atlanta-New York

Is there a rivalry between Atlanta and New York City? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.41.175 (talk) 20:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In baseball, the New York Mets and Atlanta Braves are in the same division, the NL East. During the 1980's, the Dominique Wilkins-led Atlanta Hawks and the Patrick Ewing-led New York Knicks had a rivalry, but this has cooled in the past decades. In football, there is no rivalry between the Atlanta Falcons and either of the New York teams, the New York Giants or New York Jets, since they have never played in the same division, and historically the Falcons weren't often a great team, so they would have rarely met the Giants or Jets in the post-season. In hockey, there have been two Atlanta Hockey teams, the Atlanta Flames (now in Calgary), and the Atlanta Thrashers, neither of these had/have existed long enough to establish serious rivalries, and neither played in the same division as the New York Rangers, which is NYC's only major hockey team. (The New York Islanders don't have a fan base in the city; they attract most of their fans from suburban Long Island). --Jayron32 20:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Growing up in the NYC suburbs (admittedly more than 30 years ago), I was not aware of a rivalry between New York and Atlanta. For many New Yorkers, there is not much question of rivalry with any other American city. In their eyes, New York is clearly superior. There might be a rivalry with a city such as Paris or Tokyo or possibly nowadays Shanghai, but other American cities tend to be dismissed. The only possible domestic rival (mainly for people who care about the entertainment business) would be Los Angeles. That said, my adopted home, Boston, likes to see itself as the rival of New York. In baseball, the Yankees are the traditional archenemies of the Red Sox. However, I think most New Yorkers find Boston and its feelings of rivalry quaintly amusing. Marco polo (talk) 00:30, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Which is why non-New Yorkers sometimes call the city "The Big Horseapple". :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:09, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This one's well discussed. See [3] and 40,000 New Yorkers Flee State for Atlanta for some context. I've seen other articles about it too, but I can't find them right now. Shadowjams (talk) 10:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Los Angeles-San Francisco is the classic West Coast rivalry. Politics, culture, life-style, weather, and most of all sports are all part of the game. As a die-hard Dodger fan, there are two things very high on my list of great baseball games: when the Dodgers win, and when the Giants lose. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:51, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

pretentious philosoraptor

Hi Do you know the origin of this picture ? http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1152/dinomyster.jpg

cartoon ? illustration ?

thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.151.76.194 (talk) 21:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like a screen capture of an animated video. I'm at work and cannot do much WP-stuff, but tineye is often a great friend in cases like this. You could try looking up the picture there. Matt Deres (talk) 21:29, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

in fact it's a meme. So tineye find other version of this picture, not the origin :/ 92.151.76.194 (talk) 21:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

knowyourmeme.com has researched articles on stuff like this. There's an article on philosoraptor, though it's not exactly the same image. -- BenRG (talk) 22:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

a friend found the answer : the origin is "the critic" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.151.76.194 (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, there's a "smart velociraptor" in this clip from "The Critic", but the actual philosoraptor image comes from this site. --Sean 16:49, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 25

Establishing the Date of a Photograph

Is there a relatively easy way to establish the date of a photograph solely from its content (assuming no digital manipulation)? Including a newspaper headline will establish that the photo cannot have been taken before that date, but of course it could have been taken afterwards. Including a unique event, such as three identifiable Olympic winners standing on the winner's platform, would work, but such events do not come along that often, and probably never at the time and place required. I am looking for something that is easy to implement at an arbitrary time and place, using readily available objects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Callerman (talk • contribs) 00:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused. The first half of your question seems to be asking how to find out the date of an existing photo, whilst the second half seems to be asking how to include some proof of date in a photograph you are about to take. If the first half is what you are asking, then I would say it would very much depend on the photo and it would be impossible to give an answer that fits all. If the second part is what you are asking, then I would suggest adding a calendar? Or, the TV in the background, with a certain news item on? A computer? A sign on the wall with the date? Include the sun in the photo, so the angles can be measured to find the date? --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 01:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You pose an interesting challenge. The most readily available object in my mind would be a handheld GPS unit, but you'd have to make sure the readout was visible in the photograph. As far as I know, Time/Date data on an unmodified unit is always accurate. I don't know if that would hold up to cross-examination in court, though. The Masked Booby (talk) 01:18, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Depends heavily on the subject of the photograph, I'd say. Photographs of the sky, a certain tree, a certain building, person or street or a particular crowd will all have to be judged differently. --Ouro (blah blah) 05:06, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You can't date a photograph precisely from subject alone if you don't know anything about the subject - but often you can reasonably place a photo within a particular era based on the relative technical quality of the photo. The more you know about the subject, the better chance you have of narrowing the date. For example, a picture of random action at a major league ballpark can sometimes be narrowed down to a specific game if the ballpark and players are identifiable. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:05, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect that some of the preceding answers are interpreting Callerman's "establish" more post-eventually than intended, and that the question, as KageTora surmised and The Masked Booby understood, is merely how to include something in a photograph about to be taken that will prove its time and date. Computer displays and domestic/office calendars could have been manipulated for the occasion, and a TV programme could be a recording; the Sun's position would likely be too difficult to measure accurately enough for a precise date. A public calendar display, such as might be found on a railway station platform or in major public venues, or an electronic news billboard in the latter, might be thought sufficient but would greatly constrain the available locations, contrary to Callerman's "arbitrary time and place" stipulation. An interesting problem. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 09:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(EC) It really depends for what purposes... You could simply write the date and time on paper and hold it up if all you want is a record. But since you mention newspapers, I guess this isn't sufficient. I don't really see much point for a calendar, it doesn't see any real better then a newspaper and in fact in some ways worse depending on the nature of the calendar (even if you have control over a newspaper, unless it's some sort of silly tabloid where the content has little to do with what's going on in the real world people would expect the front page to reflect what's going on in the world so if you print something you constructed several years before it's going to seem odd, this is usually doable with a calendar within reason). Similarly for the GPS thing, it's surely relatively trivial to hack the GPS receiver display to show whatever you want and I can't see why there would anything on the display you can't predict beforehand. Of course in the modern era of easy digital manipulations you probably want several high quality photographs, whatever you do, so that they can be analysed for any signs of manipulation and even then I wonder if it will always be enough.

Proving something wasn't taken in the future is obviously the more difficult thing (since there are things about the future but we can know what happened in the past) a better bet may be not to prove it in the photo itself but someway demonstrate the photo existed when you say it did (you can combine this with newspapers or whatever to ensure it wasn't taken in the more distant past). Emailing a copy to 5 different email service providers just after you take it may be enough for some although I'm not sure whether it will be enough for a court. Perhaps also post various hashes of the file to usenet and other forums. Getting a few lawyers to hold on to copies (and who are willing to attest they've held them since date X) may also help (I don't know how easy this would be but I would guess if you have the cash it can't be that hard).

Nil Einne (talk) 09:34, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(ec)Don't most digital cameras come with a feature to impose the current date and time in a corner of the picture? And maybe modern film cameras as well. I wonder if the OP is looking for definitive proof for legalistic reasons, or merely to remind himself of when the picture was taken? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:38, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect the motivations are as simple as I and 87. have stated - validating a photograph forwards AND backwards in time, "an arbitrary time and place, using readily available objects" is a simple premise which gives way to fiendish difficulty upon close consideration. None have yet proposed a reasonable solution. The Masked Booby (talk) 10:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Using the timestamp feature would be sufficient in most situations. It would be nice if the OP would add to his grand total of 2 edits since July by explaining a bit more clearly what he's got in mind. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:47, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's the answer, now, after having given it a bit of thought. The OP said 'assuming no digital manipulation', and modifying the date on the time stamp could be considered to be digital manipulation. Then, there is also the added convenience of all the meta data that digital cameras tend to include with an image file - the date and time taken is usually part of this, whether the time stamp is included on the picture or not. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 12:27, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't help if it was a Brownie snapshot taken around 1920. Which is why the OP's question is so confusing. If he hasn't taken the picture yet, why is he worried about it? He can do anything he wants. He could have someone stand there with the current date on a piece of paper. He could position the camera so that something dated is in the background. And I would argue that posting the timestamp doesn't qualify as "manipulation" unless you add it later. And as you say, the metadata would cover it, IF the timestamp in the camera were accurate. The OP needs to be more specific about what he's got in mind. But at his present editing rate, it will be March before he gets back to us. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:33, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think both of these points have been covered in the discussion at some point, but my idea would be that including the front page of a well known newspaper dates it to no earlier than the date of the newspaper. Then developing it and getting it notarised, or certified by whatever is the local certifying authority dates it to no later than the time of certification. This combination should be as effective as you can get.

Electronic innovations on top of that might be to use a computer screen displaying an electronically published news story from a major news website instead of a newspaper, though I don't think most countries provide some kind of electronic notarisation/certification of documents just yet. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:37, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If he's asking about this for a future photo, what's the issue? He can use whatever method he chooses to. Unless he has absolutely no imagination, which is the only explanation I can think of. Well, not quite. He might really be asking the opposite, namely can a picture be taken which is impossible to date via content-only. I look forward to his followup clarifications, around March of 2011. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand you. On the first point, clearly he's not asking about "whatever method he chooses to". He's asking for a conclusive method, although he has not specified whether the criterion is scientifically conclusive or legally conclusive (or some other stsandard).

On the second point, of course a picture can be taken that is impossible to date via content-only. A picture of a blank piece of paper with no other content would be one. I very much doubt anyone would ask for that. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:05, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the OP wants to take a photo in the future, which even a month later he took it, that photo will contain a proof beyond reasonnable doubt that it was really taken on the day he took it, so no one will argue that it wasn't. --Lgriot (talk) 10:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The basic problem is that he has not given us enough information, and since he's made only 2 edits since being created on July 27th, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all the comments so far - this has generated far more interest than I thought! I'm sorry my original question was ambiguous. Lgriot has hit the nail on the head. I'm looking for a method of including something (an object, an event) in a still photograph yet to be taken which will prove beyond reasonable doubt that the photo was taken on a particular day, or at least within a particular week. Metdata can be modified, so I need something in the image itself. Of course, digital images can be manipulated, but manipulation of image content can be detected by sophisticated software. It seems to me that it has to be something of a public nature which the photographer could not reasonably influence, such as a newspaper heading (although that won't work, as already discussed). Perhaps an airport arrival/departure board would do it, but I was hoping for something a bit more accessible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.14.76 (talk) 11:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's best not to jump around between registered user ID's and IP addresses, for a number of reasons. I recommend that you use a film camera rather than a digital camera, and take some establishing shots on other frames in the role, both before and after your photo, which will pinpoint the date and time. That's in addition to having someone in the photo holding up a sign with the date and time. Then when you get it developed, tell them not to slice the negatives but to leave them as a single roll. That would likely stand up to close scrutiny much better than would a digital image. Although to solidify the situation, it might be best to bring both types of cameras, and shoot the same pictures with both. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Include in the photograph an identifiable female in an advanced (visible) state of pregnancy. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:38, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are any number of possibilities, none of them foolproof. But it might help if the OP would be a little more specific about what he's got in mind. I don't think this is a "what if" kind of question, I think he's got a very specific scenario that he's planning. Knowing more about that plan might yield more specific and better answers. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:49, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bugs, I think the OP has been extremely clear in his post dated 11:09, 26 November 2010. Here is another idea, not very practical, but it may trigger other ideas, so I'll try. If you need to prove the date within 6 months only and if you are lucky enough to do this on a sunny day outside, you could use the sun shade of an unmovable object like the tip of the roof of a house. The position of the shade of that tip will not be exactly at the same place (at least not within 1 millimeter) any other day of the last 6 months. But the picture could have been taken 6 months later unfortunately.

Another idea is to split the problem in 2:

1. Use a newspaper in the picture, to prove that it wasn't taken before that date.

2. Post it on some publicly available storage like flicker, but make sure the server provide the public with an upload timestamp. This will prove that the picture was taken on or before the timestamp.

If the 2 dates coincide, then you have proven that the picture was taken on that date, since it cannot have been taken before (the news paper proves it) and it cannot have been taken after the flicker timestamp (unless you have access to the servers of Flicker, which I beleive beyond reasonnable doubt that you don't).

How's that, my dear OP? --Lgriot (talk) 17:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Me and Palaceguard already suggested to split the problem in to 2 (albeit with slightly different ways). This was before the OP responded again so I'm not sure if this means it doesn't meet their purposes for whatever reason. Nil Einne (talk) 17:33, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, the OP is NOT being clear. He obviously has something specific in mind but won't tell us what it is. It's got to do with a picture he hasn't taken yet. He can use any method he wants to. If he literally cannot think of a way to do this for a picture he hasn't taken yet, he should file a complaint with God for failing to issue him a right-brain. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:38, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the OP has been very clear; they want to prove that a picture was taken on a certain date, not before and not after, based "solely from its content" (meaning no digital timestamps or meta-data). What is confusing about that? Insulting the OPs intelligence is not helpful. 82.44.55.25 (talk) 18:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What's confusing is why the OP seems to either have no imagination whatsoever, or is hiding some important fact that, if known, could more easily lead to what he thinks the right answer might be. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The reference desk is here to help people, not criticize them for having "no imagination" and not being able to solve their own questions. 82.44.55.25 (talk) 20:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, smart guy, maybe you could find an actual link to an actual article that would explain how to do what the OP wants, and thus supercede the speculation and guesswork here which is totally unsourced and about which the OP is being no help whatsoever. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:46, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how to do what the OP wants, which is why I feel it's a very valid question and not deserving of your "no imagination" and "file a complaint with God for failing to issue him a right-brain" comments. 82.44.55.25 (talk) 21:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Of course you don't know, because the OP won't communicate with those who are trying to invent answers to his question. I've offered some ideas. I don't see you offering ideas, just criticisms. Either offer some ideas of your own to try to answer the question, or shut up about it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My inability to give an answer does not mean the OP has written a confusing question. The OPs question here is very clear imo. If you are having trouble understanding a specific part of the question I can try and explain it to you. What part of it is confusing you? 82.44.55.25 (talk) 21:30, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you can't provide anything except wise-guy comments, then go edit somewhere else. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You said the OPs question is confusing and you think for some reason they're deliberately hiding vital information crucial to understanding it. I disagree, and offered to help you understand the question if you explain what about it is confusing to you. How is that a "wise-guy comment"? 82.44.55.25 (talk) 21:38, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment farther below. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:50, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is the "Authentication by newspaper" trope, which gives some variations on "unique event" as mentioned in the original question. How much flexibility do you have, OP? If any time/place would do, maybe including some astronomical event or alignment in the picture would work (eg. you could take it at Stonehenge at daybreak on a certain day of the year, something like that). WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:18, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty obvious by the responses that there is no airtight, foolproof way to do what the OP wants. Which is why it would help if he would explain the specific scenario he has in mind. What level of proof is he looking for? Good enough to convince his friends? Or good enough to stand up in a court of law? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:36, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assume court of law, because that will include friends too. --Lgriot (talk) 21:59, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There have been plenty of assumptions in this section, with very little useful input from the OP, hence all the guesswork. It would take some research to find what level of proof is necessary in a court of law in order to properly date a photo. And those rules might vary from state to state. We are getting close to being asked to give legal advice, which we don't do here. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:04, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Take the photograph with a newspaper headline in it, and then go to a lawyer and get them to certify that they recieved the photo on a particular date. In Britain you could send the photo to yourself as a postcard by registered delivery and get the date certified that way. 92.15.11.45 (talk) 12:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That or variations thereof has been suggested by 4 different people now (including you). It's not clear if it meets the OPs requirements. Nil Einne (talk) 18:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Osama bin Laden as a name

Could it be that many Arabs are called Osama bin Laden and do not have any relationship with the real one, nor with his family? I know that Osama is a pretty common name and bin Laden seems at the first glance to be relatively common (but I am not sure). --Quest09 (talk) 12:44, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If there are (and as you say, it seems likely), then they are as 'real' as the notorious one. I'd imagine this could make for problems in some circumstances. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:54, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, like taking a plane? Actually, Al-Qaida seems to be composed by low-rank people (who could be suicide bombers and the like) and higher rank people (who would never do it).--Quest09 (talk) 12:59, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Folks who work at airlines are aware that there are many people who have famous names, and are not easily spooked by namesakes. If you worked at a ticket counter and an Osama bin Laden came by, would you immediately assume he is the internationally wanted criminal? Of course not, and people who work at ticket counters have real experience of this phenomenon, and are even less likely to freak out than you are. Yes, there are occasional reports of people who get detained for having famous names. This is so rare that when that happens, it can make world wide news.Captain Hindsight (talk) 00:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is true. The real problem is if you share a name with a criminal/suspect/terrorist/watchlisted individual who isn't particularly famous or well-known. At a quick glance, they aren't going to recognize that "Oh, he's obviously not him, so no worries". See also No Fly List#False positives. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:56, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. In 2005, the Canadian documentary series The Passionate Eye aired a show titled Being Osama. It interviewed six Arabs who shared the name Osama bin Laden; the director apparently identified at least seventeen such individuals in his research: [4]. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the six persons in the documentary only share the first name "Osama", but even that was problematic enough for them in the wake of 9/11. The surname "Bin Laden" is a lot less common than the first name "Osama", and seems to be geographically restricted to Saudi Arabia and nearby countries, whereas "Osama" is given all over the Arab and Muslim world. --Xuxl (talk) 16:28, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic name may be relevant here. Nil Einne (talk) 19:14, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

geography India

when looking for towns, city, district and state in india, the information is segregated

can the below information made available as a summary on click of button

state - district - city —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anky2211 (talk • contribs) 13:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean? Can you give us an example? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:55, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The categories Category:Geography of India and its subcategory Category:Subdivisions of India would give you some places to start researching. --Jayron32 15:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

sterling silver

i have an old silver metal tray it has sterling stamped on the outer edge how do i tell if this is real silver —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.239.101 (talk) 20:15, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's most likely to be sterling silver, an alloy containing 92.5% by weight of silver and 7.5% by weight of other metals, usually copper. Here are a couple of tests for silver you might be able to perform at home. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:18, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If it was made in Britain then it should have hallmarks on it - see Silver hallmarks. 92.28.251.194 (talk) 20:54, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maximizing expected utility

What is the process one should use to maximize one's expected utility ? 220.253.217.130 (talk) 22:15, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Go to school and university. The Masked Booby (talk) 22:27, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why would anyone want to? AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:33, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To learn to know what is the process one should use to maximize one's expected utility. Captain Hindsight (talk) 00:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Er, that wasn't what I meant. I'm all in favour of education (for those that want it), but I can see little point in 'maximizing one's expected utility', whatever that means. This might possibly be something one should do with light bulbs, but not with people. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keeps your lights on when you leave the house. schyler (talk) 00:49, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect he's trying to say "make the best use of one's potential". Given that, I'd recommend he start with a journalism class, so he can learn to use less obscure metaphors. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:49, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Marginal analysis, specifically looking at Marginal utility. Total utility is maximized when marginal utility is zero (assuming the law of Diminishing returns holds true). Buddy431 (talk) 03:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...And assuming that economic hocus-pocus applies to people (it doesn't, as is self-evident). AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:20, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The phrasing of the question suggests that Mr. 220.253... is in a microeconomics class, in which case my answer is probably the one that the teacher is looking for. "Utility" is a term rarely encountered outside of economics. If the OP is in a more advanced course, they could be looking for something along the lines of the Expected utility hypothesis, which deals with maximizing "expected utility" given unsure payouts (i.e. bets) dependent on things like probabilities of success, potential payouts, and risk aversion. Buddy431 (talk) 05:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And our standard response to requests for help with homework is...? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...to not berate people who answer homework questions in good faith, even though we prefer not to answer them at all. --Jayron32 15:28, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, should we respond with what we think is the answer the teacher is looking for, or with what we consider to be the correct answer, which is that 'maximizing one's expected utility' is not something that people actually engage in? AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:47, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You might not try to maximize your expected utility, but many people certainly do. We may not always be rational actors, but we do a good enough approximation of it enough of the time that microeconomic theory does a lot to describe personal decisions. If you have not read it, Freakonomics has some entertaining (and interesting) applications of economics, including microeconomics, to situations that we might not ordinarily associate with the field. Buddy431 (talk) 00:17, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, the point is, as general practice, we don't answer homework questions. I never do, I always tell the person to look in their textbook or look through their lecture notes for the answer. Period. However, I hold no prejudice if someone comes along after me, and in good faith, answers their question. That's fine too. There's no need to make snide comments against people who DO answer them, even if I don't. --Jayron32 15:57, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(e/c) We should respond by providing helpful and informative resources (preferably WP articles) related in some way to the question. No homework was done for anyone in response to this question so far, so that's okay then. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, just read closer that "Total utility is maximized when marginal utility is zero (assuming the law of Diminishing returns holds true)" which I guess would be the answer here... :| WikiDao ☯ (talk) 16:05, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you are evaluating alternative investment projects, then you would calculate the expected-NPV (ENPV) by using NPV with decision trees. However this does not take account of utility theory, where the value of an extra £1 is a lot less if you already have £1M.

If the question is about maximizing one's utility as a person, then is this utility for oneself or for others? 92.29.115.8 (talk) 00:40, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 26

Incoming flight to Heathrow (or anywhere)

OK, let's say I have a friend coming in to an airport (say Heathrow). I know where he is coming from (e.g. Accra, Ghana) and what time he is due to arrive (for the sake of argument, 06:30 GMT Friday morning). How can I find out what flights are arriving at that (approximate) time from that (general) place? NB I am not asking whether I can find out if he is on the flight (passenger manifest). I want to know three things: the flight number of planes going to Heathrow; a service that allows me to check whether they are on time; and a step more meta. How can one find out such info, without knowing the names of all the companies that fly between A and B, or in these days of cheap carriers, airports somewhat near A and B? Wikipedia is magic -- I'll close my eyes for a few hours and hope to wake up to the answer. (Then, GLAMWIKI at British Museum - rock on!) BrainyBabe (talk) 01:17, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most flight status websites allow you to do this, for example FlightStats.com. Continuing your scenario, the page lists two flights from Accra to Heathrow tomorrow, VIR658 and BAW68 (AAL6414 is a codeshare), scheduled to arrive at 17:20 and 06:25 respectively. Are you sure your situation is so hypothetical?! (kidding) From that page you can find out (approximately) where the plane is and whether it will be on time. Xenon54 (talk) 01:31, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Brill! I haven't even brushed my hypothetical teeth yet. Thanks, Xenon. BrainyBabe (talk) 01:37, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you know the airport, then you can just use Heathrow Airport's live flight status tool: [5]

Following up on Xenon54's response, there are indeed many websites that track flight status. My personal preference, however, is FlightAware, because it not only gives you scheduled, estimated and actual departure/arrival times, but includes a graphical representation of where the flight is at any given moment. — Michael J 19:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Plant

What type of plant is this? 24.189.87.160 (talk) 02:25, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File Not Found. You'll have to upload the picture somewhere. We can't see attachments to your webmail. Dismas|^(talk) 03:21, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that, I've uploaded it here. 24.189.87.160 (talk) 04:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks kinda like a lilypad. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't say so, lilypads go all floppy out of water... What about one of the Elephant ear plants?--Worm 10:05, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It looks a bit like a giant rhubarb Gunnera manicata, although I don't think they have the crenellated leaf-margin. It also looks like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plants/plant_finder/plant_pages/4267.shtml 92.29.115.8 (talk) 00:48, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

mytology,roman ,maybe greek

greetings

i saw a picture...there is a young man, suronded by 5 women...they look like they are punishing him about something...in a revenge.two of them are holdihg him...one is about to throw a stone...whole thing looks like one of those roman wall paintings from Pompei...Been wandering about story behind it.Looks like I know the story...or just think I know

If you can find it ...thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ganada (talk • contribs) 13:47, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are you able to link to the picture? DuncanHill (talk) 13:52, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is it this picture? They're maenads. Matt Deres (talk) 14:33, 26 November 2010 (UTC) p.s. - The picture isn't used on the English Wikipedia, but the description says that it is "Pentheus being torn by maenads. Roman fresco from the northern wall of the triclinium in the Casa dei Vettii (VI 15,1) in Pompeii." Matt Deres (talk) 15:24, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Caste standing

My name is pradeep roy ,i am an Indian my father is from west Bengal his name is Kamalash Chandra Roy and my mother's name is Nirmala nair. she is from kerala {India } but now it has changed to Nirmala roy.Our family has settled down in Karnataka [India].I just want to know where does our caste stand when compared with karnataken caste hierarchy.eg: rai,shetty,poojary etc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.96.126.62 (talk) 18:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has an article about the Caste system in India. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:49, 26 November 2010 (UTc)

If your mother is from the Nair caste of Kerala, you may have a Theravad part of your name to clarify that. Probably you are of a forward caste at least matrilineally , though I'm not sure we have an article that ranks or compares castes as finely as you are asking about. WikiDao ☯ (talk) 21:42, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is not possible to say from your surname alone what your caste standing is. The surname Roy is held by members of several castes in Bengal. In fact, the name Roy is a title of honor rather than a caste label. See our article Rai (Indian). The names Roy and Rai are variants of the same title. In Karnataka, the names Rai and Shetty are both held by members of the Bunt community or caste. The Bunt people are closely related to and roughly equivalent in status to your mother's group, the Nair of Kerala. Both groups are Kshatriya. The surname Roy in Bengal is most often held by people of Kshatriya or Brahmin varna. Your parents' marriage suggests that your father, too, is Kshatriya, although it is possible that your parents married across varna lines. You might ask them about this. Pujaris are usually of Brahmin varna, which is usually considered higher in the caste hierarchy than Kshatriya, though both varnas are "high caste". So, if it is correct that your father comes from a Kshatriya caste, then you are roughly at the same level in the caste hierarchy as the Rais and Shettys of Karnataka. Marco polo (talk) 01:11, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Difference between US and UK justice systems?

Hi. I'm a citizen of the US, and I've lived here, in various southern and western states, for most of my life. I do, however, often use the BBC as my news source, because I like them. There's a pattern I've noticed, in comparing reports of crimes on either side of the pond, and I wonder if there's something behind it.

Just now, I read the following: "Mark Simpson guilty of 'wicked' murder of Aberdeen baby". This is common: The courts in the UK, at least as they're quoted by the BBC, often describe the crimes of convicts as "wicked" or "evil". Courts in the US don't do this, at least, not that I've seen. My own instincts are American in this sense, i.e., I think it's best to avoid such descriptions of crimes.

My questions are these: Is this difference real, or of my own invention? If it's real, what is behind it? Is there any scientific analysis of this issue (how crimes and convictions are described and reported), and what does it have to say?

It seems like American judges are sometimes given to making pointed comments when issuing a sentence, but in general they probably have to be careful not to do anything which might catch the attention of the appellate courts. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:48, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think there's any connection with our history of a very conscious separation of church and state stateside? -GTBacchus^(talk) 21:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(ECx2) How would that affect the way newspapers report the case? I think we need to pin down whether the labelling is being done by the court in any way or if it's just a style thing by the Beeb. As a Canadian, I would find those kinds of subjective labels out of place in a top-flight paper, though they'd be right at home with the invective the lower level papers like the Toronto Sun see fit to print. Matt Deres (talk) 22:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The use of quotation marks in the headline means that the text within them was said by someone other than the BBC. In this case the word "wicked" was taken directly from the sentencing statement of the judge, Lord Uist. The relevant sentence read: "How you were able to act in such a wicked and abhorrent manner towards a helpless infant is beyond the understanding of all right-thinking people." Marnanel (talk) 14:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Judges in the U.S. often will address the defendant, after conviction by the jury, and may give opinions as to the particular heinousness of the crime in question. If the judge is given jurisdiction over the sentencing (in some places, the Jury may have this say, or there may be some coordination between the judge and jury over sentencing) then the judge is expected to use any number of factors, including the nature of the crimes, the demeanor of the defendents, extenuating circumstances etc. etc. There isn't a menu of crimes with specific sentences; in a few cases there are, but mandatory sentencing laws are often controversial. I am not aware of successful appeals based on the fact that the judge thought that, for example, a rapists actions were heinous or wicked or evil; especially if such statements are withheld until after the conviction. Judges usually wouldn't make such statements before the conviction, to maintain impartiality. --Jayron32 21:57, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I understand your perplexity. I am British and worked in the Scottish High Court (which closely mirrors the English Judicial system - though not exactly) for many years and think I can answer your question. You see, both jurisdictions have only one disposal for murder, and that is a life sentence. But to keep this response relatively straightforward for other readers, a life sentence here does not actually mean whole of life, it actually means that the convicted party becomes the property of the state - for life, until discretionally released, if ever, on a life-term licence. In recent years, it was made obligatory on the sentencing judge after the jury returned a guilty verdict, to declare a life sentence as being appropriate, but also to state a "punishment part of the sentence" no part of which may be commuted to any other form of punishment such as parole or probation. In other words, when the judge says he is sentencing you to a term of life imprisonment, with a punishment part of 15 years, you must serve every day of those 15 years, but may then only be released on the recommendation of a parole board. Many of these sentences are challenged at appeal by the convict and so it has become the norm for the sentencing judge to justify his/her "minimum punishment part", and the way they do this is to describe a particular crime, as obnoxious, serious, horrendous, the worst in their judicial experience etc., and this becomes the lynchpin when and if they are called to account by the Appeal Court to justify their sentencing decision. Remember, nowhere in the UK does there exist a Murder 1, 2, or 3 verdict. It is either Murder or Manslaughter (England) or Culpable Homicide (Manslaughter) in Scotland)). Hope that helps. 92.30.1.106 (talk) 22:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(e/c) The OP uses the term "either side of the pond". He/she may already be aware of this, but for the record, both the US and the UK uses Common law, while the rest of Europe uses civil law. So when it comes to legal systems, there are more similarities between the UK and US systems than between these two systems and the rest of Europe. Just wanted to clarify regarding the "across the pond" issue. --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:06, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, I'm using "across the pond" to refer specifically and exclusively to the difference between the US and the UK, which is how I've most often seen that phrase used. I have no knowledge of continental European legal systems, and this question was not in regard to those. -GTBacchus^(talk) 22:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I suspected as much. I just wanted to clarify, since I have often seen the term "across the pond" used for either a generalisation of the US or Europe as a whole. Please carry on. --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For the sake of completeness, it should be noted that in the United States the state of Louisiana has evolved a hybrid system combining elements of both common and civil law; this reflects the state's origin as a French colony, with a French-style civil law system. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:32, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suicide Crisis Hotline

What's the local number for bay area San Jose, California? I would search for it on google. But, my cunt parents block everything. ☣EternalEclipse☣ TALK 04:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is worth it.
Alameda County: 800-309-2131, Contra Costa County: 800-833-2900, Marin County: 415-499-1100, San Francisco Suicide Prevention: 415-781-0500, San Mateo County: 650-579-0350.
It is all worth it. schyler (talk) 05:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is also a 24-Hour National Suicide Hotline: 800-SUICIDE. schyler (talk) 05:26, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 27

SmartCar charging

I have a SmartCar which does not not get regular use, so I start the engine every so often to charge the battery; for how long should I have to run the engine to maintain a charged battery please?--85.211.227.216 (talk) 10:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You would be better of using a Float charger. The battery itself, needs float charging continuously or alternatively, periodic attention for topping up -every month. The engine and rest of the car (or any stand-by engine) needs starting and running at minimum of every six-months. One needs to run up to normal operating temperature and stay there long enough to drive off all the water vapour that has been absorbed by the oil and crept into other places. At normal idling speeds the alternator may not even be charging, so if you do just run it to charge it, would be important to check this. Taking it for a drive might be the better option. Also get a battery acid hydrometer to dispense with the need to guess battery condition. It shouold have instuctions on how to use it. So the answer is: untill the battery is fully charged and time alone is not the measure of this. --Aspro (talk) 11:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Any site that hosts EPL suicide pools?

My mates and I are looking to run a suicide pool for the second half of the English Premier League season. I haven't had any luck finding a site that hosts EPL suicide pools? We needn't any capacity for betting, and we could always sketch out our own spreadsheet, but it's just easier if we can all log onto a site and drop in our picks. Thanks to anyone who can help! The Masked Booby (talk) 14:29, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ignition key trope

In old American films from the 1950s and early sixties, you would often see the hero drive up to an expensive hotel or nightclub, and hand the keys to an attendant who would drive the car off and (presumably) park it.

Did this ever happen in reality? Does it still happen now? Wouldnt there be a high risk that the car would get stolen or any valuables in it removed? Or have your keys duplicated prior to house burgalry or car theft? How did the owner get their keys back and not someone elses? 92.15.11.45 (talk) 14:47, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It still happens today. See valet parking and valet key. Paul (Stansifer) 15:07, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the valet steals your car or valuables, you have a pretty good idea who did it, no? The restaurant in question would also lose business if theft became an issue there. I've never had trouble with valets the few times I've used them. --Mr.98 (talk) 16:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How did you get the right key and car back afterwards? 92.15.11.45 (talk) 20:14, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The valet attaches your key to a numbered tag; you get a numbered ticket, the car goes in the space marked by that number, I assume, though I've never been a valet. It's quite common in upscale restaurants, especially urban ones where parking can be problematic. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:26, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Right. The same as if you check a coat at a museum or a nightclub. You get a little ticket or tab or something. In a movie, the real high rollers are already known by name or appearance to the valets, so numbers or tickets are unnecessary. But I'm not so recognizable, so I take the ticket. :-) --Mr.98 (talk) 22:22, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Valet service is usually included in venues that have a reputation to maintain, so the last thing you have to worry about is the valet stealing from your car or bumping it somewhere. I once stayed in an upscale hotel courtesy of my employer at the time, and I got there in the old rustbucket I was driving at the time. The valet parked the car, then I realized I forgot something in it and got my key back to go get the forgotten item. The car was parked in the remotest possible place, well hidden from the eyes of other potential clients :) Incidentally, when I saw the title of your question, I was sure it was going to be about the trope with the stalling engine - you know, baddies behind our hero, the hero jumps into the car and has to start the coughing engine a couple of times giving the baddies just enough time to get to the car (and the viewer enough time to chew on their nails a bit) before driving off. TomorrowTime (talk) 21:09, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Valet parking is also used in some places for ordinary pay-parking garages. This occurs in cities like New York where land is expensive. They use valet parking so that they can get more cars into the lot by stack-parking the cars. Parking prices in such areas are high. In such cities you may also see signs reading "Park and Lock": this identifies a parking facility that does not use valet parking, so you park and lock your car yourself (and keep the key). --Anonymous, 01:37 UTC, November 28, 2010.

Theft isn't the only thing you have to worry about.[6][7] Clarityfiend (talk) 23:51, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

watering the cement plastering

How many days' watering is required for a surface newly plastered with portland cement? --117.204.86.189 (talk) 15:57, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My now deceased father-in-law told me it took 30 days to do it properly. But he was a civil engineer who built large concrete dams. Your needs may not be the same. HiLo48 (talk) 00:05, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

God Bless Anguilla

Hi, I'm looking for either an electronic (preferably free...) copy of the sheet music of this piece, or a MIDI other than the one on this page – thanks! ╟─Treasury Tag►constabulary─╢ 16:05, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cross-posting doesn't get you an answer any faster. Anyway, linked from the article is this page with an mp3 file attached. Xenon54 (talk) 16:09, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's neither a MIDI nor sheet music, of course... ╟─Treasury Tag►most serene─╢ 17:18, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please excuse me, I appear to have read the question incorrectly! I dunno if this midi is any different from the official one, but it's the only other one I can find. Perhaps you can try contacting the government to see if they have sheet music. Xenon54 (talk) 18:37, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This may be the dumbest suggestion I've ever posted, but here goes anyway: If they have an Olympic Team in anything, perhaps contact their Olympic Organizing Committee. SOMEBODY has to be in charge of submitting all the national anthems, just in case they win gold in something, eh?

DaHorsesMouth (talk) 20:21, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 28