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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 173.55.119.156 (talk) at 06:14, 3 March 2015 (→‎Category:Fictional magicians (fantasy)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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February 17

Category:Boy-Girl Groups

Nominator's rationale: Rename. I suggest fixing the capitalization and clarifying that this is a category for musical groups. Deletion is a possibility; I don't know enough about music to know if this is a legitimate group genre or not. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:57, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as non-defining. I've never heard of music groups with both boy and girls (or men and women) in them being referred to as "boy-girl" groups; they're just groups. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 00:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Unclear inclusion criteria. Presumably there is an age limit, otherwise bands like Blondie or Jefferson Airplane would be included. Despite that, the category includes Abba, who were aged 22, 25, 26 and 27 at the time of their first release in June 1972; and Buck's Fizz, who were aged 19, 26, 27 and 27 at the time of their first release in March 1981. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:36, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Caterpillars that resemble twigs

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Due to non-defining traits of a life-stage of certain species, and potentially subjective, editor's opinion (WP:OR) in deciding which species are thus categorized. I can think of a lot of things some caterpillars look like that don't warrant categorization. --Animalparty-- (talk) 21:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Quite a large number of caterpillars fall into this category and as the nomination says the point of acceptability into this grouping is far too debatable to be useful. This information would be better reflected in prose in articles relating to caterpillars and camouflage. If it proves to be a topic with much to say, then maybe a stand-alone article or list could be created. Still, as a category this isn't very functional. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Talkpages decorated by Hafspajen

Nominator's rationale: This is a very unusual category (it's the only category named "Talkpages...", it currently has no parent categories) so we should decide whether this is a categorization scheme that benefits Wikipedia or not. A list might be more appropriate than a category. DexDor (talk) 20:51, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Articles cannot be kept for their humor value alone, - sure - but this is not an article. As per WP:WHATABOUTX: - this is not something that may be a characteristic of most or all Wikipedia users, not a grouping of users on the basis of characteristics which cannot be readily identified, it is not on the absence of a particular characteristic, does not limits opportunities for encyclopedic collaboration to just one or very few articles, it is not categorised by personal preference, such as by user(s) edits or uploads, or any grouping of users based on a shared dislike for a person, group, organisation, event, idea, philosophy, or activity - nor group users on the basis of irrelevant likes like Wikipedians who like red foxes, Wikipedians by food preference - it is does not includes any grouping of users that are patently false and it is not any grouping of users on the basis of a characteristic that, unintentionally or by design, triggers a negative emotional reaction in others. I actually do decorate these pages, and ever if the Swedish Wikipedia blocked Drmies for putting Wikilove on my page overthere, I never expected this encyclopedia should react like this. Can't se how this could hurt anyone. Hafspajen (talk) 16:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Every new categorization scheme has costs (e.g. editor time fixing uncategorized categories) and categorizing user talk pages by a relationship to another editor ("Wikipedians awarded a barnstar by <editor>" ?) is, IMO, unnecessary. 21:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DexDor (talk • contribs)
If you'd please sign with four tildes, not five, we'd know whose opinion it is. Having to research the history for it is pretty unnecessary too. Bishonen | talk 23:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC).[reply]
  • Delist deletion proposal. DexDor, this isn't a debate club. You haven't even pointed to a guideline that motivates deletion. This is pure user talk territory, and we're usually tolerant about that unless it's offensive or confusing or whatever. How about showing some tact and discussing the merits of your case before getting all procedural on Hafspajen's stuff? Peter Isotalo 22:30, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist, please. I agree with Peter Isotalo. Being unusual is not a deletion criterion, per WP:NOTBURO. Bishonen | talk 22:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC).[reply]
  • Delist. We have stuff like Category:Wikipedians with pictures; lacking a parent category isn't much of a deletion rationale, IMO. Drmies (talk) 02:55, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist. This is the kind of stuff that helps against harassment and verbal violence. Kind of WikiLove, so to speak. Which would be a nice parent category. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:54, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! Category:Wikipedia humor! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:57, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And Category:Wikipedians by Wikipedia talkpage. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:05, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You've created another category with no parents .... and do you have any evidence for "helps against harassment and verbal violence" ? DexDor (talk) 21:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see the relevance of those, or any, restrictions on user categories, as this isn't a user category. Bishonen | talk 16:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC).[reply]
"Every Wikipedia page should belong to at least one category. (However, there is no need to categorize talk pages, redirects, or user pages, though these may be placed in categories where appropriate.)"
So, talkpages may be placed in a category. The question is: is this category appropriate? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 12:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And the answer is: No, it isn't. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 04:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist Of the arguments for deletion, the one invoking "categories have a technical overhead that pages do not" is the most amusing. If that were an actual consideration we'd just scrap the entire category system (except for certain of its automated technical uses) which is almost completely worthless for finding anything with any confidence. EEng (talk) 02:50, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I know notfacebook and all that, but some things waste more time and resources in their (attempted) deletion than they ever could just being left alone. LadyofShalott 17:36, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A CFD discussion does more than delete a single category; it also establishes a precedent - whether this is a form of categorization that benefits the encyclopedia. IMO, it's better to discuss this before the category tree is expanded (e.g. into thousands of "Editors awarded a barnstar by <editor>" categories). DexDor (talk) 07:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Also a good argument. I admit, it was a "joke," though a serious one, since it expresses my sincere appreciation for Hafspajen's friendly edits and good humor. The talkpage-category fits into this 'attitude'. But alas, to discuss the establishment of precedents: what would be a good reason to create a category for a talkpage? Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Now that's a good argument! (Serious!) Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:00, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: It's an honor to be added! And who says we can't have some fun and beauty on WP? Montanabw(talk) 05:48, 28 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Some people think fun and beauty are "unnencyclopedic", whatever that means. EEng (talk) 12:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well there has been a lot of "fun and beauty" on wiki recently. Somebody needs to pay. Do you have a list of names? I dont have much traction with admins, but will get one of them drunk enough to troll through and range block whicever continent. Ceoil (talk) 14:08, 28 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Oxford events

Nominator's rationale: The current title doesn't indicate that this is an administration category (i.e. not for articles) so a rename to something like "Wikimedia events in Oxford" might be appropriate. However, as the text says that this is for "Wikimedia" (not just "Wikipedia") events shouldn't it be a Wikimedia category like this[[1]] ? DexDor (talk) 19:54, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per nom. This is not a content category and should not appear so, otherwise it will collect articles -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:02, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for picking up on this, category has been renamed. Fabian Tompsett (WMUK) (talk) 11:30, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bounty board

Nominator's rationale: Add "Wikipedia" to the name to make clearer that this is part of Wikipedia administration (rather than being for articles) and change capitalization (it's a name). Alternatively, upmerge this category (which contains one page and one subcategory - which perhaps should be deleted) to Category:Wikipedia awards. DexDor (talk) 19:34, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. This is not about real world bounty boards -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 07:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Christian Classics

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:OC#SUBJECTIVE. DexDor (talk) 19:13, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom; purely subjective. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The capitalization implies this is a set, i.e. a discrete collection or publisher's imprint, while the category's description, "Books that are part of the classic literature of Christianity", does not imply the same. Note there is the Christian Classics Ethereal Library, which may or may not be related, but even if that was the inclusion criteria it may fail WP:DEFINING, as the CCEL website self-describes as a "digital library of hundreds of classic Christian books", which means such a category may be no more defining than "Books on Goodreads" or "Publications at the Wichita Public Library". Unless an explicit, defining, non-subjective set is identified, I say delete. --Animalparty-- (talk) 22:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, wildly subjective. The category was created on 15 July 2014, and neither the creator nor anybody else has added any articles to it since that date. It's populated by one book. (The Kneeling Christian, created by the same user.) I hope it's not overly personal to point out that the creator was a very new user and perhaps didn't understand the category system well. They seem to have left Wikipedia. Bishonen | talk 23:13, 17 February 2015 (UTC).[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Live Search

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete, merge contents to Category:Bing. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: It is the same as Category:Bing: "Live Search" is the old name of "Bing". The majority of their entries are the same. All entries in "Live Search" are eligible for inclusion in Category:Bing. Codename Lisa (talk) 19:06, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge Identical scope as same product. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Delhi MLAs 2013–

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Superseded by accurate description (close date) by Category:Delhi MLAs 2013–15. Redtigerxyz Talk 12:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Aspects of Shiva

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:56, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: In sync with Category:Forms of Vishnu and Category:Forms of Parvati. The category contains various forms/ incarnations of Shiva. Redtigerxyz Talk 08:31, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as consistent with tree. Forms is no more problematic than aspects either. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Illinois Coal History

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:29, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Rename. To mirror Category:Coal in the United States. There is no need at this stage to break the topic down by "history". Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:54, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support More in line with tree but also allows us to include contemporary topics, for which there is no benefit in separating out. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Radio owners

Nominator's rationale: Rename. I think that these categories are for people or entities that own radio stations in the jurisdictions mentioned. I'm assuming that it's obvious that they are not for people who own radios, meaning the receiving devices, since that is commonplace. I don't think we need the "by state" in the U.S. category at this stage, since there are two subcategories and nothing else in it. I'm not sure how defining this is, so I'm open to other solutions, such as deletion. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - can these be "Radio station owners..." to better match the parent instead of "Owners of..."? I did a check of prefix index and the only "owners of" cats appear to refer to horse race winners. - jc37 03:56, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jc37: I just thought "Radio station owners in FOO" was less clear, because then it sounds like the owners, rather than the stations, are in FOO. What's the important thing here—that the stations are in the place or that the owners are in the place? I think it's the former. (If a corporation was based in New York but owned a radio station in Louisiana, I would prefer to categorize it for owning the station in Louisiana rather than being a radio station owner located in New York.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:27, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I can understand that.
    As I look closer at these, I'm wondering if this is a triple intersection which should be deleted.
    We have radio station by owner: Category:Radio stations in the United States by owner.
    Should we have owners by the location of something they own? To give an idea of this pandora's box... Owners of pharmacies by location of the pharmacies owned. Pharmacy owners in Lousiana. We could change this to laundromats, office buildings, parking lots etc.
    Or to put another way, this is ownership by venue...
    What do you think? - jc37 08:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I do have my doubts about these. As you noted, there certainly are not very many category schemes for people who own things. Maybe a single Category:Radio station owners should be as far as things go. Some of the articles are about corporations for which radio station ownership seems pretty central. But even that ... there are lots of radio station owners that are not really defined by that feature. I'm open to pretty much any solution here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 08:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Ok, I tried to find anything on this. Commercial broadcasting was the closest I found. I think that we could merge to Category:Commercial broadcasters in the United States by state. (commercial radio broadcasters?). And the same for the subcats. Let's kick this can down the road and see if it goes anywhere. If it doesn't, it can all be upmerged later without the "by state". - jc37 09:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    That sounds good to me. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge all to new target and logical parent Category:Radio station owners. There is no use dividing by American state when we don't even have a category on the plain topic itself. Subdivision many be warranted should this expand, but I'd expect national level to develop before sub-national level too. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just for the record, we actually do already have an existing category for companies which own radio stations. You guys just hadn't found the actual wording of it, which is Category:Radio broadcasting companies by country — and there's already a subcat for Category:Radio broadcasting companies of the United States, too. They were originally created mainly by Stefaniomione, which isn't necessarily always a good thing — so the tree could potentially be nominated for a comprehensive renaming if people feel that the existing names are too awkward or non-intuitive, but we don't need a duplicate set of new "companies that own radio stations" categories sitting alongside the existing ones. We also do not need to subdivide the existing US category by each individual state in which each company happens to have holdings, per WP:OCLOCATION — and the "owners" wording implies individual people rather than companies, but people aren't what's been catted here. Upmerge all three to Category:Radio broadcasting companies of the United States rather than renaming them; if somebody wants to subsequently propose a different name for the target category, that should be done as a batch nomination of Category:Radio broadcasting companies by country and its subcategories. Bearcat (talk) 01:51, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. It looks to me like Bearcat is right and we should just merge these to Category:Radio broadcasting companies of the United States, since all the articles categorized are companies, not people. Good Ol’factory (talk) 21:49, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, thanks for finding those, Bearcat : ) jc37 02:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional magicians (fantasy)

Many of the articles are there already, and splitting like this hinders navigation.

I understand that the goal here was purportedly by occupation, but if you look at the category contents, that's obviously not the case. Being a witch, wizrd, sorcerer, etc through some form of magic usage is different than utilising magic as a profession or as a means to making money. - jc37 02:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • UpMerge both as nom. - jc37 02:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge unclear distinction which does not aid those searching or those categorising. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • oppose "Being a witch, wizrd, sorcerer" is precisely a profession. As opposed to just "some form of magic usage", like in cases of Geralt of Rivia, whose profession is a "witcher" (as in: a monster hunter warrior powered by magical elixirs), or Imhotep (character), whose profession is a priest, or Sun Wukong, who is a fighter with a magical staff (and also a monkey). --302ET (talk) 22:10, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Your examples prove the point. These are characters with other professions who also use magic. Yes, there are a few characters who truly have magic-user as their occupation, but to split them from the rest of the magic-using characters for solely this reason does a disservice to navigation, and therefore to our readers. And "priest" does not automatically equal "magic user" by any stretch of the imagination. and by the by, these categories are named "magician", not "priest". - jc37 00:18, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: For recent history of these categories, see old discussions at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 14#Category:Fictional sorcerers, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 June 4#Category:Fictional magicians and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 August 12#Category:Fictional female magicians. – Fayenatic London 15:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merging of power with profession, but Oppose merging of genders. I therefore support the first line, but suggest Category:Fictional female characters who use magic for the second. Gender is mentioned as significant several times in the article witchcraft. – Fayenatic London 15:52, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll support that outcome as well. SFB 20:26, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Splitting by gender isn't a good idea in this case, due to the fact that "magic" is what we're talking about. Switching genders is a common trope in fantasy fiction, and that aside, a character's gender is at the whim of the author. And what of situations like Wotan (comics) which was a male character until later authors decided the character should be female? Due to literary present tense, the character has been both. Or characters like Doctor Fate which have been various male and female characters. And there are magical characters which are non-human (certain plant creatures, for example), and so "gender" becomes a problem in quantifying. And by the by, "witch" doesn't mean just female magic users. So in all, splitting by gender just reduces navigation and creates WP:OR issues. - jc37 02:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge per nom. Unless someone wants the male and female categories to be fully diffusing, let's not ghettoize the women, particularly fictional ones who might be able to switch. Montanabw(talk) 06:48, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dyspeptic comment This kind of Titanic-deck-chair-rearranging underscores how ridiculously nonfunctional the entire category system truly is. EEng (talk) 14:14, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Will it reduce ambiguity? Fictional characters who use magic is subcategory of characters by superhuman feature or ability (aka Superheroes) of science fiction. Fictional magicians is fantasy oriented subcategory of characters by profession, usually in worlds where having a magical <insert title> occupation (i.e. yōkai, sorceress, witch, enchanter, wizard, magical girl, warlock, etc.) is about as common as scientists and engineers. Merging them will inevitably encourage the re-pollination of these ambiguous titles and undue previous attempts to keep these from bloating the Fictional stage magicians or those ...who use magic categories. --173.55.119.156 (talk) 06:13, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Filmmaking

Nominator's rationale: Merge. Basically the same concept while 'Film production' sounds more professional. WWbread （Open Your Mouth?） 00:39, 17 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There is clearly a lot of overlap here, but the target doesn't seem right for some things, like Category:Screenwriting. There are quite a lot of considerations to be made her about how this idea of production of a film sits within the overall parent of Category:Film. Category:Film industry may also warrant some merging here. I agree with Liz that the Film WikiProject should be involved as these are quite high level structures. We need buy-in from the topic experts who we would expect to maintain it. SFB 18:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think there is a qualitative distinction between the two but they seem to be used synonymously here. I personally associate "filmmaking" with the art and craft of making films i.e. directing/cinematography/editing and "film production" with a far broader scope that encompasses not only filmmaking but also Film budgeting/Principal photography/Post-production etc. There currently is no rhyme nor reason for how the articles are divided between the two categories (some things appear in both cats), so unless clear qualification criteria can be established for each category then perhaps merging is the best option. I've put some film articles through GA so am familiar with a lot of the terminology present in these categories. Betty Logan (talk) 21:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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